This is our unabridged interview with Sharon McMahon. Have you ever wished someone would explain the inner workings of America’s political landscape — without taking sides or fueling the outrage machine?  With over 1.3 million Instagram followers, Sharon McMahon, known affectionately as “America’s Government Teacher,” has spent her career doing exactly that. Drawing from her roots in public education, Sharon rose to prominence on social media during the chaotic 2020 election season. Her clear, fact-based explanations of complex government processes have garnered her a loyal following of self-proclaimed “Governerds,” and today, her teaching reaches millions through her acclaimed podcast, Here's Where It Gets Interesting, her best-selling book The Small and the Mighty, and The Preamble, one of America's most widely-read nonpartisan newsletters. In this thoughtful conversation, Sharon reflects on the transformative power of education, the urgent need for informed civic participation, and the hopeful possibilities that emerge when we approach politics not as partisan warriors but as compassionate, curious learners.  ⁠⁠Show Notes, Resources and Transcript⁠⁠ for abridged episode with Sharon McMahon Thank you to our sponsors: Ka’Chava: Go to ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠https://kachava.com⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ and use code NSE for 15% off your next order Boll and Branch: Get 20% off plus free shipping by visiting ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠BollAndBranch.com/NSE⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ AquaTru: Go to  ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠AquaTru.com⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ and use promo code NSE Piper and Leaf: Get a 10% off discount to the Advent Calendar by using my code 'NSE' at ⁠⁠⁠⁠piperandleaf.com⁠⁠⁠⁠ Nations U: Use code ENDEAVOR50 when you visit ⁠⁠⁠Nationsu.edu/endeavor⁠⁠⁠ CTA: Please donate today at ⁠⁠MercyShips.org/podcast⁠⁠ Omaha Steaks: Visit ⁠⁠OmahaSteaks.com⁠⁠ for 50% off sitewide during their Sizzle All the Way Sale. And for an extra $35 off, use promo code FUN at checkout. ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Join NSE+⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ — our subscriber-only community — for ad-free listening, member-only bonus content, and early access to live show tickets. Your membership helps make No Small Endeavor sustainable. No Small Endeavor: An award-winning podcast that asks what it means to live a good life. Through conversations with leading thinkers across theology, philosophy, psychology, politics, and the social sciences, we explore human flourishing, meaning and purpose, faith and culture, science and religion, virtue and character, community, and the practices that help shape a good life grounded in truth, beauty, and goodness. Follow ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠@nosmallendeavor⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠  Host Lee C. Camp: Lee has worked as a professor of theology & ethics for more than 25 years, teaching and writing on topics of faith & politics, inter-religious dialog, and human flourishing at the intersection of theology, moral philosophy, and social sciences. Follow ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠@leeccamp ⁠ Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Some moments stay with us long after the episode ends. In this special episode, Lee C. Camp and Jakob Lewis revisit the conversations from 2025 that changed them—clips that still echo with courage, tenderness, and the invitation to live well.  Key Ideas: Focus on What You Can Do. Sharon McMahon reminds us that while none of us can fix everything, each of us can meaningfully contribute to the common good through small, faithful actions. Reclaim Trust in Your Body. Jen Hatmaker’s story shows how healing from spiritual shame begins with listening again to our intuition, our bodies, and the wisdom we were taught to doubt. Let Small Words Change You. Terrence Lester’s life was redirected by a single affirmation from an unhoused stranger—revealing how everyday encounters can spark courage, purpose, and justice. Stay Human in an AI World. Baratunde Thurston and Astro Teller explore how technology invites us to ask what is uniquely human—and why deep community and local practice matter more than big “moonshot” fixes. Rewrite Your Inner Story. Sheryl Crow’s vulnerable reflections show how naming early wounds and dismantling shame can help us live more authentically, with freedom and grounded joy. Tend Your Own Small Garden. In previewing The Subtext, Savannah Locke and Lee C. Camp offer a hopeful vision: in a complex world, flourishing begins with the corner of the world that’s ours to steward. ⁠ ⁠⁠Show Notes, Resources and Transcript⁠⁠ Thank you to our sponsors: Ka’Chava: Go to ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠https://kachava.com⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ and use code NSE for 15% off your next order Boll and Branch: Get 20% off plus free shipping by visiting ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠BollAndBranch.com/NSE⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ AquaTru: Go to  ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠AquaTru.com⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ and use promo code NSE Piper and Leaf: Get a 10% off discount to the Advent Calendar by using my code 'NSE' at ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠piperandleaf.com⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ Nations U: Use code ENDEAVOR50 when you visit ⁠⁠⁠⁠Nationsu.edu/endeavor⁠⁠⁠⁠ CTA: Please donate today at ⁠⁠⁠MercyShips.org/podcast⁠⁠⁠ Omaha Steaks: Visit ⁠⁠⁠OmahaSteaks.com⁠⁠⁠ for 50% off sitewide during their Sizzle All the Way Sale. And for an extra $35 off, use promo code FUN at checkout. ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Join NSE+⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ — our subscriber-only community — for ad-free listening, member-only bonus content, and early access to live show tickets. Your membership helps make No Small Endeavor sustainable. No Small Endeavor: An award-winning podcast that asks what it means to live a good life. Through conversations with leading thinkers across theology, philosophy, psychology, politics, and the social sciences, we explore human flourishing, meaning and purpose, faith and culture, science and religion, virtue and character, community, and the practices that help shape a good life grounded in truth, beauty, and goodness. Follow ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠@nosmallendeavor⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠  Host Lee C. Camp: Lee has worked as a professor of theology & ethics for more than 25 years, teaching and writing on topics of faith & politics, inter-religious dialog, and human flourishing at the intersection of theology, moral philosophy, and social sciences. Follow ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠@leeccamp ⁠ Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

This is our unabridged interview with Munther Isaac. Imagine you're in charge of pastoring a congregation amidst a war. What does it mean to love your enemies when violence is outside your window, and visceral images of your congregation’s devastation fill your phone? How would you find hope and carry on? Palestinian Lutheran pastor Munther Isaac joins Lee C. Camp from his home in the West Bank to discuss his book Christ in the Rubble: Faith, the Bible, and the Genocide in Gaza. Drawing from his experience shepherding congregations through two years of war, Munther reflects on grief, anger, and the moral danger of becoming numb to suffering, while still insisting on nonviolence, justice, and the stubborn call to love of enemy. This conversation wrestles with the collision of politics and theology, the misuse of religious language, and what authentic human flourishing, meaning, and courage can look like in the midst of rubble. Key Ideas: Christ also asked where God was amidst suffering. Munther insists that, in Gaza’s devastation, God is not distant but present “under the rubble,” with the oppressed, displaced, and grieving. Nonviolence and creative resistance are needed to break cycles of violence. What it means for a Palestinian pastor to reject terrorism and militarism, yet still speak of “creative resistance in the logic of love” as a practice of justice, courage, and meaningful living. Language can be used to warp our imagination. How labels like “terrorism” and “self-defense” can distort moral vision, and why Munther believes reclaiming moral language is essential to the common good and the search for meaning and purpose. To stop loving is to lose our humanity. Munther’s insistence that true happiness and well-being require refusing to dehumanize even one’s enemies. Religious imagination has real-world implications. Theological worldviews often shape policy, war, and public imagination. Munthers asks, what might it mean for theology and culture to serve justice, mercy, and flourishing instead? A warning to our listeners—this episode contains descriptions of violence and graphic imagery. Please listen with care. ⁠⁠ ⁠⁠Show Notes, Resources and Transcript⁠⁠ for Munther Isaac⁠ Thank you to our sponsors: Ka’Chava: Go to ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠https://kachava.com⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ and use code NSE for 15% off your next order Boll and Branch: Get 20% off plus free shipping by visiting ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠BollAndBranch.com/NSE⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ AquaTru: Go to  ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠AquaTru.com⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ and use promo code NSE Piper and Leaf: Get a 10% off discount to the Advent Calendar by using my code 'NSE' at ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠piperandleaf.com⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ Nations U: Use code ENDEAVOR50 when you visit ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Nationsu.edu/endeavor⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ CTA: Please donate today at ⁠⁠⁠⁠MercyShips.org/podcast⁠⁠⁠⁠ Omaha Steaks: Visit ⁠⁠⁠⁠OmahaSteaks.com⁠⁠⁠⁠ for 50% off sitewide during their Sizzle All the Way Sale. For an extra $35 off, use promo code FUN at checkout. ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Join NSE+⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ — our subscriber-only community — for ad-free listening, member-only bonus content, and early access to live show tickets. Your membership helps make No Small Endeavor sustainable. No Small Endeavor: An award-winning podcast that asks what it means to live a good life. Through conversations with leading thinkers across theology, philosophy, psychology, politics, and the social sciences, we explore human flourishing, meaning and purpose, faith and culture, science and religion, virtue and character, community, and the practices that help shape a good life grounded in truth, beauty, and goodness. Follow ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠@nosmallendeavor⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠  Host Lee C. Camp: Lee has worked as a professor of theology & ethics for more than 25 years, teaching and writing on topics of faith & politics, inter-religious dialog, and human flourishing at the intersection of theology, moral philosophy, and social sciences. Follow ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠@leeccamp ⁠⁠ Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Family estrangement is rising, but the cultural story behind it is far more complex than “cutting off toxic people.” In this episode, Savannah and Lee unpack the social, psychological, and technological shifts that quietly reshaped our expectations of family. and why forgiveness, repair, and humility might be the most countercultural practices left. In this episode, Savannah and Lee dig into the cultural forces behind the surge in family estrangement, from postmodern distrust of authority to therapy-speak, safetyism, digital overwhelm, and the luxury of disconnection. Drawing on Rachel Haack’s Substack newsletter, they explore how concept creep, para-connection, and wealth have shaped our expectations of parents, children, and in-laws, and why privilege can make cutting off family easier than repairing them. Together they reflect on the emotional weight, legitimate complexities, and real pain inside estrangement, before ending with a conversation on forgiveness…not as excusing harm, but as a courageous path towards freedom. Things we mentioned in this episode: ⁠⁠Labubu Pendant Blind Box⁠⁠ ⁠⁠James by Percival Everett⁠⁠ ⁠⁠ Why Everyone’s Cutting Everyone Off: The Cultural Story Behind Family Estrangement⁠⁠ ⁠⁠David Schnarch's books⁠⁠ ⁠⁠ That All Shall Be Saved: Heaven, Hell, and Universal Salvation by David Bentley Hart⁠⁠ ⁠⁠The Pastor: A Crisis by Bradley Jersak and Wm. Paul Young⁠⁠ ⁠⁠ Why Concepts Creep to the Left by Jonathan Haidt⁠⁠ Follow The Subtext: ⁠⁠Instagram⁠⁠ | ⁠⁠Threads⁠⁠ | ⁠⁠X⁠⁠ | ⁠⁠YouTube⁠⁠ | ⁠⁠TikTok⁠⁠ Follow Lee: ⁠⁠Instagram⁠⁠ | ⁠⁠Twitter⁠⁠ | ⁠⁠Lee's Newsletter⁠⁠ Follow Savannah: ⁠⁠Instagram⁠⁠ | ⁠⁠Substack⁠⁠ Join our Email List: ⁠⁠nosmallendeavor.com⁠⁠ Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Imagine you're in charge of pastoring a congregation amidst a war. What does it mean to love your enemies when violence is outside your window, and visceral images of your congregation’s devastation fill your phone? How would you find hope and carry on? Palestinian Lutheran pastor Munther Isaac joins Lee C. Camp from his home in the West Bank to discuss his book Christ in the Rubble: Faith, the Bible, and the Genocide in Gaza. Drawing from his experience shepherding congregations through two years of war, Munther reflects on grief, anger, and the moral danger of becoming numb to suffering, while still insisting on nonviolence, justice, and the stubborn call to love of enemy. This conversation wrestles with the collision of politics and theology, the misuse of religious language, and what authentic human flourishing, meaning, and courage can look like in the midst of rubble. Key Ideas: Christ also asked where God was amidst suffering. Munther insists that, in Gaza’s devastation, God is not distant but present “under the rubble,” with the oppressed, displaced, and grieving. Nonviolence and creative resistance are needed to break cycles of violence. What it means for a Palestinian pastor to reject terrorism and militarism, yet still speak of “creative resistance in the logic of love” as a practice of justice, courage, and meaningful living. Language can be used to warp our imagination. How labels like “terrorism” and “self-defense” can distort moral vision, and why Munther believes reclaiming moral language is essential to the common good and the search for meaning and purpose. To stop loving is to lose our humanity. Munther’s insistence that true happiness and well-being require refusing to dehumanize even one’s enemies, guarding the heart from numbness, and insisting that we are created to love one another. Religious imagination has real-world implications. Theological worldviews often shape policy, war, and public imagination. Munthers asks, what might it mean for theology and culture to serve justice, mercy, and flourishing instead? A warning to our listeners—this episode contains descriptions of violence and graphic imagery. Please listen with care. ⁠ ⁠⁠Show Notes, Resources and Transcript⁠⁠ for abridged episode with Munther Isaac Thank you to our sponsors: Ka’Chava: Go to ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠https://kachava.com⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ and use code NSE for 15% off your next order Boll and Branch: Get 20% off plus free shipping by visiting ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠BollAndBranch.com/NSE⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ AquaTru: Go to  ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠AquaTru.com⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ and use promo code NSE Piper and Leaf: Get a 10% off discount to the Advent Calendar by using my code 'NSE' at ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠piperandleaf.com⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ Nations U: Use code ENDEAVOR50 when you visit ⁠⁠⁠⁠Nationsu.edu/endeavor⁠⁠⁠⁠ CTA: Please donate today at ⁠⁠⁠MercyShips.org/podcast⁠⁠⁠ Omaha Steaks: Visit ⁠⁠⁠OmahaSteaks.com⁠⁠⁠ for 50% off sitewide during their Sizzle All the Way Sale. For an extra $35 off, use promo code FUN at checkout. ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Join NSE+⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ — our subscriber-only community — for ad-free listening, member-only bonus content, and early access to live show tickets. Your membership helps make No Small Endeavor sustainable. No Small Endeavor: An award-winning podcast that asks what it means to live a good life. Through conversations with leading thinkers across theology, philosophy, psychology, politics, and the social sciences, we explore human flourishing, meaning and purpose, faith and culture, science and religion, virtue and character, community, and the practices that help shape a good life grounded in truth, beauty, and goodness. Follow ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠@nosmallendeavor⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠  Host Lee C. Camp: Lee has worked as a professor of theology & ethics for more than 25 years, teaching and writing on topics of faith & politics, inter-religious dialog, and human flourishing at the intersection of theology, moral philosophy, and social sciences. Follow ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠@leeccamp ⁠ Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

This is our unabridged interview with Jeff Chu. Change can come in the most unlikely places. For Jeff Chu, he found meaning and purpose in a pile of compost. At the peak of his journalism career — writing for Time and Fast Company, perched 29 floors above Manhattan — Jeff Chu stared out his office window and asked a question he could no longer avoid: “What is this all for?” That moment of vocational and existential reckoning set him on an unexpected journey — one that led to Princeton Theological Seminary, a plot of farmland known as the Farminary, and ultimately, to the compost pile that led him to write his book Good Soil: The Education of an Accidental Farmhand, which we discuss in today’s episode. Key Ideas: The long, honest work of vocational discernment: rage, anxiety, hard conversations with his husband, and the slow dawning realization that questions of calling and authentic living are often answered over years, not days. Life at the Farminary: learning theology with his hands in the dirt, discovering in the compost pile that what looks like waste and failure can, through community and time, become good soil for new life, faith, and hope. The practice of attention and slowing down—walking land after a snowfall, watching purple martins swirl over downtown Nashville, greeting a backyard mulberry tree—as a quiet path into wonder, gratitude, and the psychology of well-being in a distracted age. What gardening teaches about relinquishing control and embracing interdependence: we can plant and tend, but we cannot make a seed grow—an agrarian lens for habit formation, spiritual practices, and surrendering our illusion of power. Jeff’s journey of belonging as a gay Christian and Chinese American—learning to claim his story, honor his ancestors (and his grandmother’s fried rice), trust that he belongs to God, and extend that belonging outward through friendship, hospitality, and communal care. Subscribe, share this episode with a friend, and find more conversations on truth, beauty, goodness, and human flourishing at nosmallendeavor.com. ⁠⁠⁠⁠ ⁠⁠Show Notes, Resources, and Transcript⁠ for abridged episode with Jeff Chu⁠ Thank you to our sponsors: Ka’Chava: Go to ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠https://kachava.com⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ and use code NSE for 15% off your next order Boll and Branch: Get 20% off plus free shipping by visiting ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠BollAndBranch.com/NSE⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ AquaTru: Go to  ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠AquaTru.com⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ and use promo code NSE Piper and Leaf: Get a 10% off discount to the Advent Calendar by using my code 'NSE' at ⁠⁠⁠piperandleaf.com⁠⁠⁠ Nations U: Use code ENDEAVOR50 when you visit ⁠⁠Nationsu.edu/endeavor⁠⁠ CTA: Please donate today at ⁠MercyShips.org/podcast⁠ Omaha Steaks: Visit ⁠OmahaSteaks.com⁠ for 50% off sitewide during their Sizzle All the Way Sale. And for an extra $35 off, use promo code FUN at checkout. ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Join NSE+⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ — our subscriber-only community — for ad-free listening, member-only bonus content, and early access to live show tickets. Your membership helps make No Small Endeavor sustainable. No Small Endeavor: An award-winning podcast that asks what it means to live a good life. Through conversations with leading thinkers across theology, philosophy, psychology, politics, and the social sciences, we explore human flourishing, meaning and purpose, faith and culture, science and religion, virtue and character, community, and the practices that help shape a good life grounded in truth, beauty, and goodness. Follow ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠@nosmallendeavor⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠  Host Lee C. Camp: Lee has worked as a professor of theology & ethics for more than 25 years, teaching and writing on topics of faith & politics, inter-religious dialog, and human flourishing at the intersection of theology, moral philosophy, and social sciences. Follow ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠@leeccamp ⁠ Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

AI is reshaping the music industry at a breakneck pace. AI musicians are topping charts, landing record deals, and attracting massive corporate investments. What does this mean for artists? How might this challenge us to think about embodiment, creativity, labor, and what it means to actually be human? When AI musicians start topping the music charts, we’re not just talking about technology. We’re deciding what makes art human, what makes labor fair, and what makes a person irreplaceable. AI musicians are breaking into the charts, labels are investing heavily in machine-generated artistry, and Christians, creators, and consumers are wrestling with what it means to open ourselves (and industries) to something that isn’t human. In this episode, Savannah and Lee unpack the rise of AI “artists” like Solomon Ray and Breaking Rust and ask how AI might transform our view of embodiment, truthfulness, and creativity. Listen to our playlist featuring real, human artists: Spotify: https://open.spotify.com/playlist/35w8gz81cYShmsf6T2hshQ?si=t0Ae38obT7q0SSfQfMuo6A Apple Music: https://music.apple.com/us/playlist/the-subtext-recs/pl.u-6mo44y8imzGlYq Things we mentioned in this episode: No Small Endeavor Podcast Recommended Episodes Lee's books Jesse Welles  Hillbilly Hymn by Nathan Evans Fox Savannah's music Follow The Subtext: Instagram | Threads | X | YouTube | TikTok Follow Lee: Instagram | Twitter | Lee's Newsletter Follow Savannah: Instagram | Substack Join our Email List: nosmallendeavor.com Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Change can come in the most unlikely places. For Jeff Chu, he found meaning and purpose in a pile of compost. At the peak of his journalism career — writing for Time and Fast Company, perched 29 floors above Manhattan — Jeff Chu stared out his office window and asked a question he could no longer avoid: “What is this all for?” That moment of vocational and existential reckoning set him on an unexpected journey — one that led to Princeton Theological Seminary, a plot of farmland known as the Farminary, and ultimately, to the compost pile that led him to write his book Good Soil: The Education of an Accidental Farmhand, which we discuss in today’s episode. Key Ideas: How Jeff’s successful journalism career left him asking, “What is work for?” and wondering how to live with more meaning and purpose rather than producing a “luxury product” that might vanish without changing anyone’s life. The long, honest work of vocational discernment: rage, anxiety, hard conversations with his husband, and the slow dawning realization that questions of calling and authentic living are often answered over years, not days. Life at the Farminary: learning theology with his hands in the dirt, discovering in the compost pile that what looks like waste and failure can, through community and time, become good soil for new life, faith, and hope. The practice of attention and slowing down—walking land after a snowfall, watching purple martins swirl over downtown Nashville, greeting a backyard mulberry tree—as a quiet path into wonder, gratitude, and the psychology of well-being in a distracted age. What gardening teaches about relinquishing control and embracing interdependence: we can plant and tend, but we cannot make a seed grow—an agrarian lens for habit formation, spiritual practices, and surrendering our illusion of power. Jeff’s journey of belonging as a gay Christian and Chinese American—learning to claim his story, honor his ancestors (and his grandmother’s fried rice), trust that he belongs to God, and extend that belonging outward through friendship, hospitality, and communal care. Subscribe, share this episode with a friend, and find more conversations on truth, beauty, goodness, and human flourishing at nosmallendeavor.com. ⁠⁠⁠ ⁠⁠Show Notes, Resources, and Transcript⁠ for abridged episode with Jeff Chu Thank you to our sponsors: Ka’Chava: Go to ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠https://kachava.com⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ and use code NSE for 15% off your next order Boll and Branch: Get 20% off plus free shipping by visiting ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠BollAndBranch.com/NSE⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ AquaTru: Go to  ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠AquaTru.com⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ and use promo code NSE Piper and Leaf: Get a 10% off discount to the Advent Calendar by using my code 'NSE' at ⁠⁠⁠piperandleaf.com⁠⁠⁠ Nations U: Use code ENDEAVOR50 when you visit ⁠⁠Nationsu.edu/endeavor⁠⁠ CTA: Please donate today at ⁠MercyShips.org/podcast⁠ Omaha Steaks: Visit ⁠OmahaSteaks.com⁠ for 50% off sitewide during their Sizzle All the Way Sale. And for an extra $35 off, use promo code FUN at checkout. ⁠⁠⁠⁠Join NSE+⁠⁠⁠⁠ — our subscriber-only community — for ad-free listening, member-only bonus content, and early access to live show tickets. Your membership helps make No Small Endeavor sustainable. No Small Endeavor: An award-winning podcast that asks what it means to live a good life. Through conversations with leading thinkers across theology, philosophy, psychology, politics, and the social sciences, we explore human flourishing, meaning and purpose, faith and culture, science and religion, virtue and character, community, and the practices that help shape a good life grounded in truth, beauty, and goodness. Follow ⁠⁠⁠⁠@nosmallendeavor⁠⁠⁠⁠  Host Lee C. Camp: Lee has worked as a professor of theology & ethics for more than 25 years, teaching and writing on topics of faith & politics, inter-religious dialog, and human flourishing at the intersection of theology, moral philosophy, and social sciences. Follow ⁠⁠⁠⁠@leeccamp ⁠ Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

This is our unabridged interview with Hillary McBride. At sixteen, Lee C. Camp drove five miles over the speed limit and was seized by terror. In his mind, if he died breaking the law, he was going to hell. That childhood fear, shaped by a theology steeped in shame and judgment, is the kind of spiritual residue clinical psychologist Hillary McBride sees in her work every day. Clinical psychologist and researcher Hillary McBride joins Lee C. Camp to explore spiritual trauma: how religious ideas, communities, and leaders can wound our deepest sense of self — and how healing becomes possible through embodiment, grief, and honest meaning-making. Drawing from neuroscience, trauma therapy, and her book Holy Hurt: Understanding Spiritual Trauma and the Process of Healing, Hillary helps us name religious gaslighting, purity culture, and fear-based images of God while offering a path toward authentic human flourishing and more compassionate faith. Key Ideas: How Hillary defines trauma as “too much, too fast, too soon” combined with “not enough of what we needed” — and what makes spiritual trauma uniquely complex, especially in high-control religious environments that normalize harm and call it “God’s will.” The dynamics of spiritual gaslighting: when leaders tell you your heart is deceitful, you can’t trust your own experience, and they alone can interpret God for you — often reinforced with images of hell and eternal punishment as tools of control. How trauma fragments our sense of connection — to our bodies, to others, to the earth, and to God — and why embodiment, nervous system awareness, and somatic practices are essential for healing, not just “right beliefs” or spiritual practices that bypass our pain. Why deep therapeutic work is not self-indulgent but a form of love: as we heal perfectionism, shame, and spiritual wounds, we become more able to live with purpose, practice courage and compassion, and participate in the healing of our communities and culture. For more conversations like this, subscribe to No Small Endeavor. ⁠⁠ ⁠⁠Show Notes, Resources, and Transcript⁠ for abridged episode with Hillary McBride⁠ Thank you to our sponsors: Ka’Chava: Go to ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠https://kachava.com⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ and use code NSE for 15% off your next order Boll and Branch: Get 20% off plus free shipping by visiting ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠BollAndBranch.com/NSE⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ AquaTru: Go to  ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠AquaTru.com⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ and use promo code NSE Piper and Leaf: Get a 10% off discount to the Advent Calendar by using my code 'NSE' at ⁠⁠⁠piperandleaf.com⁠⁠⁠ Nations U: Use code ENDEAVOR50 when you visit ⁠⁠Nationsu.edu/endeavor⁠⁠ CTA: Please donate today at ⁠MercyShips.org/podcast⁠ Omaha Steaks: Visit ⁠OmahaSteaks.com⁠ for 50% off sitewide during their Sizzle All the Way Sale. And for an extra $35 off, use promo code FUN at checkout. ⁠⁠⁠Join NSE+⁠⁠⁠ — our subscriber-only community — for ad-free listening, member-only bonus content, and early access to live show tickets. Your membership helps make No Small Endeavor sustainable. No Small Endeavor: An award-winning podcast that asks what it means to live a good life. Through conversations with leading thinkers across theology, philosophy, psychology, politics, and the social sciences, we explore human flourishing, meaning and purpose, faith and culture, science and religion, virtue and character, community, and the practices that help shape a good life grounded in truth, beauty, and goodness. Follow ⁠⁠⁠@nosmallendeavor⁠⁠⁠  Host Lee C. Camp: Lee has worked as a professor of theology & ethics for more than 25 years, teaching and writing on topics of faith & politics, inter-religious dialog, and human flourishing at the intersection of theology, moral philosophy, and social sciences. Follow ⁠⁠⁠@leeccamp ⁠ Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

What if the real magic of Wicked isn’t the spells, but the way friendship, shame, and belonging shape who we become? In this episode, Savannah and Lee dive into the deeper themes of Wicked: For Good, from dreams that come true but don’t satisfy, to the power of propaganda, to the power of shame with an in-group/out-group mentality. They also unpack Glinda and Elphaba’s friendship: how Elphaba gives Glinda moral courage and authenticity, and how Glinda gives Elphaba trust, confidence, and a place to be known without performing. Things we mentioned in this episode: Did the Old Testament Endorse Slavery? by Dr. Joshua Bowen Dan Gilbert: The surprising science of happiness The Happiness Project by Gretchen Rubin 1984 by George Orwell Animal Farm by George Orwell The Tears of Things by Richard Rohr That All Shall Be Saved by David Bentley Hart The New Testament: A Translation David Bentley Hart Follow The Subtext: Instagram | Threads | X | YouTube | TikTok Follow Lee: Instagram | Twitter | Lee's Newsletter Follow Savannah: Instagram | Substack Join our Email List: nosmallendeavor.com Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

At sixteen, Lee C. Camp drove five miles over the speed limit and was seized by terror. In his mind, if he died breaking the law, he was going to hell. That childhood fear, shaped by a theology steeped in shame and judgment, is the kind of spiritual residue clinical psychologist Hillary McBride sees in her work every day. Clinical psychologist and researcher Hillary McBride joins Lee C. Camp to explore spiritual trauma: how religious ideas, communities, and leaders can wound our deepest sense of self — and how healing becomes possible through embodiment, grief, and honest meaning-making. Drawing from neuroscience, trauma therapy, and her book Holy Hurt: Understanding Spiritual Trauma and the Process of Healing, Hillary helps us name religious gaslighting, purity culture, and fear-based images of God while offering a path toward authentic human flourishing and more compassionate faith. Key Ideas: How Hillary defines trauma as “too much, too fast, too soon” combined with “not enough of what we needed” — and what makes spiritual trauma uniquely complex, especially in high-control religious environments that normalize harm and call it “God’s will.” The dynamics of spiritual gaslighting: when leaders tell you your heart is deceitful, you can’t trust your own experience, and they alone can interpret God for you — often reinforced with images of hell and eternal punishment as tools of control. How trauma fragments our sense of connection — to our bodies, to others, to the earth, and to God — and why embodiment, nervous system awareness, and somatic practices are essential for healing, not just “right beliefs” or spiritual practices that bypass our pain. Why deep therapeutic work is not self-indulgent but a form of love: as we heal perfectionism, shame, and spiritual wounds, we become more able to live with purpose, practice courage and compassion, and participate in the healing of our communities and culture. For more conversations like this, subscribe to No Small Endeavor. ⁠ ⁠⁠Show Notes, Resources, and Transcript⁠ for abridged episode with Hillary McBride Thank you to our sponsors: Ka’Chava: Go to ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠https://kachava.com⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ and use code NSE for 15% off your next order Boll and Branch: Get 20% off plus free shipping by visiting ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠BollAndBranch.com/NSE⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ AquaTru: Go to  ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠AquaTru.com⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ and use promo code NSE Piper and Leaf: Get a 10% off discount to the Advent Calendar by using my code 'NSE' at ⁠⁠⁠piperandleaf.com⁠⁠⁠ Nations U: Use code ENDEAVOR50 when you visit ⁠⁠Nationsu.edu/endeavor⁠⁠ CTA: Please donate today at ⁠MercyShips.org/podcast⁠ Omaha Steaks: Visit ⁠OmahaSteaks.com⁠ for 50% off sitewide during their Sizzle All the Way Sale. And for an extra $35 off, use promo code FUN at checkout. ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ ⁠⁠Join NSE+⁠⁠ — our subscriber-only community — for ad-free listening, member-only bonus content, and early access to live show tickets. Your membership helps make No Small Endeavor sustainable. No Small Endeavor: An award-winning podcast that asks what it means to live a good life. Through conversations with leading thinkers across theology, philosophy, psychology, politics, and the social sciences, we explore human flourishing, meaning and purpose, faith and culture, science and religion, virtue and character, community, and the practices that help shape a good life grounded in truth, beauty, and goodness. Follow ⁠⁠@nosmallendeavor⁠⁠  Host Lee C. Camp: Lee has worked as a professor of theology & ethics for more than 25 years, teaching and writing on topics of faith & politics, inter-religious dialog, and human flourishing at the intersection of theology, moral philosophy, and social sciences. Follow ⁠⁠@leeccamp ⁠ Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

This is our unabridged interview with Tara Brach. How do you accept yourself fully, just as you are? And if you did, would you ever grow? “Being at peace with how we are in the moment is the precondition to transformation,” says psychologist and meditation teacher Tara Brach. In this episode she provides us with a simple practice to find peace and transformation known by the acronym RAIN. “We have amazing potential to change some of the habits that cause ourselves or others harm,” she says, “but we won't be able to access that if we're at war with ourselves.” Hear Tara’s stories from a life of practicing mindfulness, putting on display the wisdom and healing that come from pausing to accept the world as it is. This episode contains a brief mention of disordered eating. If you are in need of support, contact the National Alliance for Eating Disorders at 1-866-662-1235 ⁠Show Notes, Resources, and Transcript⁠ for abridged episode with Tara Brach Thank you to our sponsors: Ka’Chava: Go to ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠https://kachava.com⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ and use code NSE for 15% off your next order Boll and Branch: Get 20% off plus free shipping by visiting ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠BollAndBranch.com/NSE⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ AquaTru: Go to  ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠AquaTru.com⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ and use promo code NSE Piper and Leaf: Get a 10% off discount to the Advent Calendar by using my code 'NSE' at ⁠⁠piperandleaf.com⁠⁠ Nations U: Use code ENDEAVOR50 when you visit ⁠Nationsu.edu/endeavor⁠ ⁠ Join NSE+ — our subscriber-only community — for ad-free listening, member-only bonus content, and early access to live show tickets. Your membership helps make No Small Endeavor sustainable. No Small Endeavor: An award-winning podcast that asks what it means to live a good life. Through conversations with leading thinkers across theology, philosophy, psychology, politics, and the social sciences, we explore human flourishing, meaning and purpose, faith and culture, science and religion, virtue and character, community, and the practices that help shape a good life grounded in truth, beauty, and goodness. Follow @nosmallendeavor  Host Lee C. Camp: Lee has worked as a professor of theology & ethics for more than 25 years, teaching and writing on topics of faith & politics, inter-religious dialog, and human flourishing at the intersection of theology, moral philosophy, and social sciences. Follow @leeccamp  Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

When the headlines numb and the culture wars grind us down, what if hope isn’t a mood at all—but a practice you can do with your body, your friends, and your city? In this holiday special, Lee revisits four conversations to find practices of hope: meditation teacher Tara Brach on healing the “trance of unworthiness,” songwriter Tom Paxton on the folk community that fueled social change, marine biologist Ayana Elizabeth Johnson on climate imagination, and educator Sharon McMahon on everyday civic action. Together they offer three grounded practices—for self, for community, and for the common good—that help us act toward a more beautiful future. Practice 1—Self: Tara Brach’s “two wings” of mindfulness and compassion help us befriend reality and begin change from within (“What is happening inside me right now? … Can I be with this?”). Practice 2—Community: Tom Paxton’s Greenwich Village years show how laughter, critique, and shared craft create courage—and movements. Make something together offline and let belonging fuel hope. Practice 3—Civic: Ayana Elizabeth Johnson invites a shift from apocalypse to imagination—joining others to scale solutions we already have; Sharon McMahon reminds us everyone can do something. Start local and “join something.” Show Notes, Resources, and Transcript⁠ for abridged holiday special with Tara Brach, Tom Paxton, Ayana Elizabeth Johnson, and Sharon McMahon Thank you to our sponsors: Ka’Chava: Go to ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠https://kachava.com⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ and use code NSE for 15% off your next order Boll and Branch: Get 20% off plus free shipping by visiting ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠BollAndBranch.com/NSE⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ AquaTru: Go to  ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠AquaTru.com⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ and use promo code NSE Piper and Leaf: Get a 10% off discount to the Advent Calendar by using my code 'NSE' at ⁠⁠piperandleaf.com⁠⁠ Nations U: Use code ENDEAVOR50 when you visit ⁠Nationsu.edu/endeavor⁠ ⁠Join NSE+⁠ — our subscriber-only community — for ad-free listening, member-only bonus content, and early access to live show tickets. Your membership helps make No Small Endeavor sustainable. No Small Endeavor: An award-winning podcast that asks what it means to live a good life. Through conversations with leading thinkers across theology, philosophy, psychology, politics, and the social sciences, we explore human flourishing, meaning and purpose, faith and culture, science and religion, virtue and character, community, and the practices that help shape a good life grounded in truth, beauty, and goodness. Follow ⁠@nosmallendeavor⁠  Host Lee C. Camp: Lee has worked as a professor of theology & ethics for more than 25 years, teaching and writing on topics of faith & politics, inter-religious dialog, and human flourishing at the intersection of theology, moral philosophy, and social sciences. Follow ⁠@leeccamp ⁠ Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

This is our unabridged interview with Lara Love Hardin. What if the opposite of addiction isn’t sobriety—but connection? How does a woman go from 32 felony charges to the New York Times bestseller list, lunches with Oprah, and a life devoted to healing?Lara Love Hardin—literary agent, author, and prison-reform advocate—recounts her descent into opioid and heroin addiction, the shame that followed, and the community that made restoration possible. She traces the path from a Santa Cruz jail to acclaimed collaborations with figures like Desmond Tutu and the Dalai Lama, and to her own bestselling memoir, ⁠The Many Lives of Mama Love⁠. Listeners will hear how practices of community, meditation, and honest storytelling can transform compulsion into connection and purpose. Key Ideas: “The opposite of addiction isn’t sobriety, it’s connection”—why isolation fuels compulsion and how community begins to heal it. Shame’s long shadow: from the “neighbor from hell” headline to reclaiming dignity—and why public humiliation rarely rehabilitates. Skills for staying: meditation, naming emotions, and building a circle you can be messy with. Rat Park revisited: an experiment with morphine and rats, why context and community change outcomes From ghostwriter to guide: what Lara learned about forgiveness (and self-forgiveness) working with Archbishop Tutu and meeting the Dalai Lama. ⁠⁠Show Notes, Resources, and Transcript⁠ for abridged episode with Lara Love Hardin Thank you to our sponsors: Ka’Chava: Go to ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠https://kachava.com⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ and use code NSE for 15% off your next order Boll and Branch: Get 20% off plus free shipping by visiting ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠BollAndBranch.com/NSE⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ AquaTru: Go to  ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠AquaTru.com⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ and use promo code NSE Piper and Leaf: Get a 10% off discount to the Advent Calendar by using my code 'NSE' at ⁠⁠piperandleaf.com⁠⁠ Nations U: Use code ENDEAVOR50 when you visit ⁠Nationsu.edu/endeavor⁠ Tickets to Nov 23rd NSE Live in Nashville: ⁠⁠⁠⁠https://www.nashvillesymphony.org/nosmallendeavor⁠⁠⁠ ⁠Join NSE+⁠ — our subscriber-only community — for ad-free listening, member-only bonus content, and early access to live show tickets. Your membership helps make No Small Endeavor sustainable. No Small Endeavor: An award-winning podcast that asks what it means to live a good life. Through conversations with leading thinkers across theology, philosophy, psychology, politics, and the social sciences, we explore human flourishing, meaning and purpose, faith and culture, science and religion, virtue and character, community, and the practices that help shape a good life grounded in truth, beauty, and goodness. Follow ⁠@nosmallendeavor⁠  Host Lee C. Camp: Lee has worked as a professor of theology & ethics for more than 25 years, teaching and writing on topics of faith & politics, inter-religious dialog, and human flourishing at the intersection of theology, moral philosophy, and social sciences. Follow ⁠@leeccamp ⁠ Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

In this episode, Savannah rounds up several posts her algorithm served her this week: an influencer from The Bachelor warning Christians not to watch Love Island, a pastor speaking about slavery in the Bible, Billie Eilish calling out billionaires, and a thread about SNAP benefits. Plus, a little conspiracy chat to close things out, courtesy of Kim Kardashian and the moon landing. Things we mentioned in this episode: James by Percival Everett  Courage to be Disliked by Fumitake Koga and Ichiro Kishimi The New Testament and the People of God by NT Wright Truth Is Stranger Than It Used to Be by J. Richard Middleton and Brian J. Walsh The Bible Is Not Enough by Scot McKnight Poverty, by America by Matthew Desmond Follow The Subtext: Instagram | Threads | X | YouTube | TikTok Follow Lee: Instagram | Twitter | Lee's Newsletter Follow Savannah: Instagram | Substack Join our Email List: nosmallendeavor.com Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

What if the opposite of addiction isn’t sobriety—but connection? How does a woman go from 32 felony charges to the New York Times bestseller list, lunches with Oprah, and a life devoted to healing?Lara Love Hardin—literary agent, author, and prison-reform advocate—recounts her descent into opioid and heroin addiction, the shame that followed, and the community that made restoration possible. She traces the path from a Santa Cruz jail to acclaimed collaborations with figures like Desmond Tutu and the Dalai Lama, and to her own bestselling memoir, The Many Lives of Mama Love. Listeners will hear how practices of community, meditation, and honest storytelling can transform compulsion into connection and purpose. Key Ideas: “The opposite of addiction isn’t sobriety, it’s connection”—why isolation fuels compulsion and how community begins to heal it. Shame’s long shadow: from the “neighbor from hell” headline to reclaiming dignity—and why public humiliation rarely rehabilitates. Skills for staying: meditation, naming emotions, and building a circle you can be messy with. Rat Park revisited: an experiment with morphine and rats, why context and community change outcomes From ghostwriter to guide: what Lara learned about forgiveness (and self-forgiveness) working with Archbishop Tutu and meeting the Dalai Lama. ⁠ ⁠⁠Show Notes, Resources, and Transcript⁠ for abridged episode with Lara Love Hardin⁠ Thank you to our sponsors: Ka’Chava: Go to ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠https://kachava.com⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ and use code NSE for 15% off your next order Boll and Branch: Get 20% off plus free shipping by visiting ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠BollAndBranch.com/NSE⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ AquaTru: Go to  ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠AquaTru.com⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ and use promo code NSE Piper and Leaf: Get a 10% off discount to the Advent Calendar by using my code 'NSE' at ⁠⁠piperandleaf.com⁠⁠ Nations U: Use code ENDEAVOR50 when you visit ⁠Nationsu.edu/endeavor⁠ Tickets to Nov 23rd NSE Live in Nashville: ⁠⁠⁠⁠https://www.nashvillesymphony.org/nosmallendeavor⁠⁠⁠ ⁠Join NSE+⁠ — our subscriber-only community — for ad-free listening, member-only bonus content, and early access to live show tickets. Your membership helps make No Small Endeavor sustainable. No Small Endeavor: An award-winning podcast that asks what it means to live a good life. Through conversations with leading thinkers across theology, philosophy, psychology, politics, and the social sciences, we explore human flourishing, meaning and purpose, faith and culture, science and religion, virtue and character, community, and the practices that help shape a good life grounded in truth, beauty, and goodness. Follow ⁠@nosmallendeavor⁠  Host Lee C. Camp: Lee has worked as a professor of theology & ethics for more than 25 years, teaching and writing on topics of faith & politics, inter-religious dialog, and human flourishing at the intersection of theology, moral philosophy, and social sciences. Follow ⁠@leeccamp ⁠ Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

This is our unabridged interview with Rick Steves. When Rick Steves was 14 years old, he stood in a park behind the Royal Palace in Oslo, watching families dot the grass in joyful togetherness. That was the moment. A dawning awareness that love — deep, sacrificial, attentive love — was not unique to his own family, but radiated across the globe. “This world is filled,” he remembers realizing, “with equally lovable little kids like me. Little children of God.” It was a quiet, early epiphany — but it would shape a life. Today, Rick Steves is a household name. But before the bestselling travel guides and beloved PBS shows, before the advocacy work and global partnerships, there was a deeply formative journey: the 1978 “Hippie Trail” from Istanbul to Kathmandu. In this conversation with Lee C. Camp, Steves opens up about the raw diary he kept on that trip — a travel journal long forgotten, then rediscovered during COVID — and how that coming-of-age adventure sparked a lifelong vocation in travel education. But this episode is more than a story about travel. It’s a meditation on what thoughtful travel can become: a political act, a spiritual practice, a tool for personal growth, a way of learning how to love our neighbors — whether they live across the street or across the sea. Rick Steves and Lee discuss how serendipity reveals virtue, how privilege demands stewardship, and why phrases like “have a safe trip” can be far less benign than we think. Rick Steves insists that the best kind of travel complicates our assumptions and broadens our perspective — and that we are, all of us, global citizens. This is a conversation about habit formation, global empathy, and the practices that help us live a good life. ⁠Show Notes, Resources, and Transcript⁠ for abridged episode with Rick Steves⁠ Thank you to our sponsors: Ka’Chava: Go to ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠https://kachava.com⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ and use code NSE for 15% off your next order Boll and Branch: Get 20% off plus free shipping by visiting ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠BollAndBranch.com/NSE⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ AquaTru: Go to  ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠AquaTru.com⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ and use promo code NSE Piper and Leaf: Get a 10% off discount to the Advent Calendar by using my code 'NSE' at ⁠⁠piperandleaf.com⁠⁠ Nations U: Use code ENDEAVOR50 when you visit ⁠Nationsu.edu/endeavor⁠ Tickets to Nov 23rd NSE Live in Nashville: ⁠⁠⁠⁠https://www.nashvillesymphony.org/nosmallendeavor⁠⁠⁠ ⁠Join NSE+⁠ — our subscriber-only community — for ad-free listening, member-only bonus content, and early access to live show tickets. Your membership helps make No Small Endeavor sustainable. No Small Endeavor: An award-winning podcast that asks what it means to live a good life. Through conversations with leading thinkers across theology, philosophy, psychology, politics, and the social sciences, we explore human flourishing, meaning and purpose, faith and culture, science and religion, virtue and character, community, and the practices that help shape a good life grounded in truth, beauty, and goodness. Follow ⁠@nosmallendeavor⁠  Host Lee C. Camp: Lee has worked as a professor of theology & ethics for more than 25 years, teaching and writing on topics of faith & politics, inter-religious dialog, and human flourishing at the intersection of theology, moral philosophy, and social sciences. Follow ⁠@leeccamp ⁠ Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

In this episode, Savannah and Lee dive into the Netflix series Nobody Wants This, a smart and surprisingly tender rom-com about an agnostic podcaster (Kristen Bell) and a rabbi (Adam Brody) trying to make love work across lines of faith and conviction. The conversation unfolds into bigger questions: How do we love people whose choices we disagree with? When does compromise in a relationship become self-betrayal? Can married people be friends with people of the opposite sex? And what does it mean to convert to a different religion? Things we mentioned in this episode: The Chosen by Chaim Potok My Name Is Asher Lev by Chaim Potok Rainn Wilson on No Small Endeavor Soul Boom by Rainn Wilson Silence by Shusaku Endo Follow The Subtext: Instagram | Threads | X | YouTube | TikTok Follow Lee: Instagram | Twitter | Lee's Newsletter Follow Savannah: Instagram | Substack Join our Email List: nosmallendeavor.com Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

When Rick Steves was 14 years old, he stood in a park behind the Royal Palace in Oslo, watching families dot the grass in joyful togetherness. That was the moment. A dawning awareness that love — deep, sacrificial, attentive love — was not unique to his own family, but radiated across the globe. “This world is filled,” he remembers realizing, “with equally lovable little kids like me. Little children of God.” It was a quiet, early epiphany — but it would shape a life. Today, Rick Steves is a household name. But before the bestselling travel guides and beloved PBS shows, before the advocacy work and global partnerships, there was a deeply formative journey: the 1978 “Hippie Trail” from Istanbul to Kathmandu. In this conversation with Lee C. Camp, Steves opens up about the raw diary he kept on that trip — a travel journal long forgotten, then rediscovered during COVID — and how that coming-of-age adventure sparked a lifelong vocation in travel education. But this episode is more than a story about travel. It’s a meditation on what thoughtful travel can become: a political act, a spiritual practice, a tool for personal growth, a way of learning how to love our neighbors — whether they live across the street or across the sea. Rick Steves and Lee discuss how serendipity reveals virtue, how privilege demands stewardship, and why phrases like “have a safe trip” can be far less benign than we think. Rick Steves insists that the best kind of travel complicates our assumptions and broadens our perspective — and that we are, all of us, global citizens. This is a conversation about habit formation, global empathy, and the practices that help us live a good life. Show Notes, Resources, and Transcript⁠ for abridged episode with Rick Steves Thank you to our sponsors: Ka’Chava: Go to ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠https://kachava.com⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ and use code NSE for 15% off your next order Boll and Branch: Get 20% off plus free shipping by visiting ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠BollAndBranch.com/NSE⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ AquaTru: Go to  ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠AquaTru.com⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ and use promo code NSE Piper and Leaf: Get a 10% off discount to the Advent Calendar by using my code 'NSE' at ⁠⁠piperandleaf.com⁠⁠ Nations U: Use code ENDEAVOR50 when you visit ⁠Nationsu.edu/endeavor⁠ Tickets to Nov 23rd NSE Live in Nashville: ⁠⁠⁠⁠https://www.nashvillesymphony.org/nosmallendeavor⁠⁠⁠ ⁠Join NSE+⁠ — our subscriber-only community — for ad-free listening, member-only bonus content, and early access to live show tickets. Your membership helps make No Small Endeavor sustainable. No Small Endeavor: An award-winning podcast that asks what it means to live a good life. Through conversations with leading thinkers across theology, philosophy, psychology, politics, and the social sciences, we explore human flourishing, meaning and purpose, faith and culture, science and religion, virtue and character, community, and the practices that help shape a good life grounded in truth, beauty, and goodness. Follow ⁠@nosmallendeavor⁠  Host Lee C. Camp: Lee has worked as a professor of theology & ethics for more than 25 years, teaching and writing on topics of faith & politics, inter-religious dialog, and human flourishing at the intersection of theology, moral philosophy, and social sciences. Follow ⁠@leeccamp ⁠ Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

This is our unabridged interview with Pádraig Ó Tuama. Pádraig Ó Tuama joins us for part three of a three-part series asking the question posed by poet Christian Wiman: What is poetry’s role when the world is burning? It’s not a metaphorical question. We’re living through wars, climate collapse, collective burnout, and political fragmentation. What possibly might human flourishing mean in such a context? And what might poetry have to do with it?  Here Pádraig Ó Tuama--poet, theologian, and peacemaker--returns to No Small Endeavor for an expansive, searching conversation about words, wounds, witness, and wisdom. Former leader of Ireland’s Corrymeela peace and reconciliation community and host of Poetry Unbound, Ó Tuama draws from a deep well of personal and communal experience—where poetry is not just a literary act but a practice of survival, accountability, and attention. Pádraig Ó Tuama reflects on growing up Catholic and gay in 1980s Ireland, and the complex legacy of faith, repression, and language he inherited—narratives that led him through years of exorcism and reparative “therapies.” With honesty and grace, he shares how poetry helped him reclaim agency and reframe pain, offering listeners a poignant example of how the “art of noticing” becomes a form of resistance and self-development. He reads moving excerpts from his recent collection Kitchen Hymns, including poems on belief, disillusionment, and friendship—each one an invitation to live more humanely and attentively. Lee and Pádraig also delve into the mechanics of peacebuilding, the failures and contradictions within justice work, and how poetic language can uncover what politics often obscures. This episode is as much about being human as it is about art and theology: a tender meditation on how we live with purpose, create for the common good, and show up in the world with courage and compassion. ⁠⁠Show Notes, Resources, and Transcript⁠ for our episode with Pádraig Ó Tuama ⁠ Thank you to our sponsors: Ka’Chava: Go to ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠https://kachava.com⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ and use code NSE for 15% off your next order Boll and Branch: Get 20% off plus free shipping by visiting ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠BollAndBranch.com/NSE⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ AquaTru: Go to  ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠AquaTru.com⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ and use promo code NSE Piper and Leaf: Get a 10% off discount to the Advent Calendar by using my code 'NSE' at ⁠⁠piperandleaf.com⁠⁠ Nations U: Use code ENDEAVOR50 when you visit ⁠Nationsu.edu/endeavor⁠ Tickets to Nov 23rd NSE Live in Nashville: ⁠⁠⁠⁠https://www.nashvillesymphony.org/nosmallendeavor⁠⁠⁠ ⁠Join NSE+⁠ — our subscriber-only community — for ad-free listening, member-only bonus content, and early access to live show tickets. Your membership helps make No Small Endeavor sustainable. No Small Endeavor: An award-winning podcast that asks what it means to live a good life. Through conversations with leading thinkers across theology, philosophy, psychology, politics, and the social sciences, we explore human flourishing, meaning and purpose, faith and culture, science and religion, virtue and character, community, and the practices that help shape a good life grounded in truth, beauty, and goodness. Follow ⁠@nosmallendeavor⁠  Host Lee C. Camp: Lee has worked as a professor of theology & ethics for more than 25 years, teaching and writing on topics of faith & politics, inter-religious dialog, and human flourishing at the intersection of theology, moral philosophy, and social sciences. Follow ⁠@leeccamp ⁠ Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

When Turning Point USA launches an “All-American Halftime Show” to rival Bad Bunny’s Super Bowl performance, it’s more than a musical critique, it’s a signal of a culture war. In this episode, Savannah and Lee unpack why something as ordinary as a halftime show can feel like a referendum on faith, family, and freedom. From the backlash that followed Reconstruction to Reagan’s alliance with the religious right, to today’s debates over gender, race, and education, the culture wars have always been about who stays in power. How can we interact with culture wars better? How should we treat “hot topic” issues? Things we mentioned in this episode: Revisionist History: The Alabama Murders The Sun Does Shine by Anthony Ray Hinton James by Percival Everett All the Way to the River by Elizabeth Gilbert Awake by Jen Hatmaker The Courage to be Disliked by Fumitake Koga and Ichiro Kishimi The Many Lives of Mama Love by Lara Love Hardin Bad Faith by Randall Balmer Mere Discipleship by Lee C. Camp All the Buried Women podcast Ed Larson on No Small Endeavor Randall Balmer on No Small Endeavor Garrett Graff on No Small Endeavor Follow The Subtext: Instagram | Threads | X | YouTube | TikTok Follow Lee: Instagram | Twitter | Lee's Newsletter Follow Savannah: Instagram | Substack Join our Email List: nosmallendeavor.com Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Pádraig Ó Tuama joins us for part three of a three-part series asking the question posed by poet Christian Wiman: What is poetry’s role when the world is burning? It’s not a metaphorical question. We’re living through wars, climate collapse, collective burnout, and political fragmentation. What possibly might human flourishing mean in such a context? And what might poetry have to do with it?  Here Pádraig Ó Tuama--poet, theologian, and peacemaker--returns to No Small Endeavor for an expansive, searching conversation about words, wounds, witness, and wisdom. Former leader of Ireland’s Corrymeela peace and reconciliation community and host of Poetry Unbound, Ó Tuama draws from a deep well of personal and communal experience—where poetry is not just a literary act but a practice of survival, accountability, and attention. Pádraig Ó Tuama reflects on growing up Catholic and gay in 1980s Ireland, and the complex legacy of faith, repression, and language he inherited—narratives that led him through years of exorcism and reparative “therapies.” With honesty and grace, he shares how poetry helped him reclaim agency and reframe pain, offering listeners a poignant example of how the “art of noticing” becomes a form of resistance and self-development. He reads moving excerpts from his recent collection Kitchen Hymns, including poems on belief, disillusionment, and friendship—each one an invitation to live more humanely and attentively. Lee and Pádraig also delve into the mechanics of peacebuilding, the failures and contradictions within justice work, and how poetic language can uncover what politics often obscures. This episode is as much about being human as it is about art and theology: a tender meditation on how we live with purpose, create for the common good, and show up in the world with courage and compassion. ⁠Show Notes, Resources, and Transcript⁠ for our episode with Pádraig Ó Tuama  Thank you to our sponsors: Ka’Chava: Go to ⁠⁠⁠⁠https://kachava.com⁠⁠⁠⁠ and use code NSE for 15% off your next order Boll and Branch: Get 20% off plus free shipping by visiting ⁠⁠⁠⁠BollAndBranch.com/NSE⁠⁠⁠⁠ AquaTru: Go to  ⁠⁠⁠⁠AquaTru.com⁠⁠⁠⁠ and use promo code NSE Piper and Leaf: Get a 10% off discount to the Advent Calendar by using my code 'NSE' at ⁠piperandleaf.com⁠ Nations U: Use code ENDEAVOR50 when you visit Nationsu.edu/endeavor Tickets to Nov 23rd NSE Live in Nashville: ⁠⁠⁠⁠https://www.nashvillesymphony.org/nosmallendeavor⁠⁠⁠ ⁠Join NSE+⁠ — our subscriber-only community — for ad-free listening, member-only bonus content, and early access to live show tickets. Your membership helps make No Small Endeavor sustainable. No Small Endeavor: An award-winning podcast that asks what it means to live a good life. Through conversations with leading thinkers across theology, philosophy, psychology, politics, and the social sciences, we explore human flourishing, meaning and purpose, faith and culture, science and religion, virtue and character, community, and the practices that help shape a good life grounded in truth, beauty, and goodness. Follow ⁠@nosmallendeavor⁠  Host Lee C. Camp: Lee has worked as a professor of theology & ethics for more than 25 years, teaching and writing on topics of faith & politics, inter-religious dialog, and human flourishing at the intersection of theology, moral philosophy, and social sciences. Follow ⁠@leeccamp ⁠ Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

This is our unabridged interview with Haleh Liza Gafori. Haleh Liza Gafori joins us for part two of a three-part series asking the question posed by poet Christian Wiman: What is poetry’s role when the world is burning? It’s not a metaphorical question. We’re living through wars, climate collapse, collective burnout, and political fragmentation. What possibly might human flourishing mean in such a context? And what might poetry have to do with it?  Here, Haleh Liza Gafori—poet, musician, and translator—guides us into the world of the Sufi poet Rumi. We explore how his 13th-century Persian verse still speaks to the modern crises of anxiety, spiritual disconnection, materialism, and self-repression. But this isn’t just about literary history. For Gafori, Rumi has been a companion in healing, a guide through spiritual trauma, ego detachment, and the tyranny of the self. We discuss poetry as a political act, a mystical practice, and a form of social critique. We look at how Iranian-American identity, religious fundamentalism, and Western imperialism shape the psyche—and how mystical poetry can help us see through, and beyond, these entanglements. We ask what it means to live a good life when the systems around us are built on fear and greed—and what role language, art, theology and ecstatic love can play in imagining something different. Show Notes, Resources, and Transcript⁠ of our abridged episode with Haleh Liza Gafori on her translation of Rumi⁠⁠⁠ Thank you to our sponsors: Ka’Chava: Go to ⁠⁠⁠⁠https://kachava.com⁠⁠⁠⁠ and use code NSE for 15% off your next order Boll and Branch: Get 20% off plus free shipping by visiting ⁠⁠⁠⁠BollAndBranch.com/NSE⁠⁠⁠⁠ AquaTru: Go to  ⁠⁠⁠⁠AquaTru.com⁠⁠⁠⁠ and use promo code NSE Piper and Leaf: Get a 10% off discount to the Advent Calendar by using my code 'NSE' at ⁠piperandleaf.com⁠ Tickets to Nov 23rd NSE Live in Nashville: ⁠⁠⁠⁠https://www.nashvillesymphony.org/nosmallendeavor⁠⁠⁠ ⁠Join NSE+⁠ — our subscriber-only community — for ad-free listening, member-only bonus content, and early access to live show tickets. Your membership helps make No Small Endeavor sustainable. No Small Endeavor: An award-winning podcast that asks what it means to live a good life. Through conversations with leading thinkers across theology, philosophy, psychology, politics, and the social sciences, we explore human flourishing, meaning and purpose, faith and culture, science and religion, virtue and character, community, and the practices that help shape a good life grounded in truth, beauty, and goodness. Follow ⁠@nosmallendeavor⁠  Host Lee C. Camp: Lee has worked as a professor of theology & ethics for more than 25 years, teaching and writing on topics of faith & politics, inter-religious dialog, and human flourishing at the intersection of theology, moral philosophy, and social sciences. Follow ⁠@leeccamp ⁠ Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

When the “Liver King” built an empire on raw meat, steroids, and slogans about being “a real man,” what if he wasn’t selling a message based on muscles but mortality? In this episode, Savannah and Lee dig into how the fear of death shapes our obsession with control, strength, and self-sufficiency. Drawing from Untold: The Liver King, Scott Galloway’s research on the masculinity crisis, and Richard Beck’s The Slavery of Death, they trace a cultural thread that might tell us something about how we handle one of the rare, universal experiences: death. Things we mentioned in this episode: ⁠ Reviving Old Scratch by Richard Beck⁠ ⁠ The Slavery of Death by Richard Beck⁠ ⁠ The Many Lives of Mama Love by Lara Love Hardin⁠ ⁠ Scott Galloway on Armchair Expert⁠ ⁠ The Smoke Gets in Your Eyes by Caitlin Doughty⁠ Follow The Subtext: ⁠Instagram⁠ | ⁠Threads⁠ | ⁠X⁠ | ⁠YouTube⁠ | ⁠TikTok⁠ Follow Lee: ⁠Instagram⁠ | ⁠Twitter⁠ | ⁠Lee's Newsletter⁠ Follow Savannah: ⁠Instagram⁠ | ⁠Substack⁠ Join our Email List: ⁠nosmallendeavor.com⁠ Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Haleh Liza Gafori joins us for part two of a three-part series asking the question posed by poet Christian Wiman: What is poetry’s role when the world is burning? It’s not a metaphorical question. We’re living through wars, climate collapse, collective burnout, and political fragmentation. What possibly might human flourishing mean in such a context? And what might poetry have to do with it?  Here, Haleh Liza Gafori—poet, musician, and translator—guides us into the world of the Sufi poet Rumi. We explore how his 13th-century Persian verse still speaks to the modern crises of anxiety, spiritual disconnection, materialism, and self-repression. But this isn’t just about literary history. For Gafori, Rumi has been a companion in healing, a guide through spiritual trauma, ego detachment, and the tyranny of the self. We discuss poetry as a political act, a mystical practice, and a form of social critique. We look at how Iranian-American identity, religious fundamentalism, and Western imperialism shape the psyche—and how mystical poetry can help us see through, and beyond, these entanglements. We ask what it means to live a good life when the systems around us are built on fear and greed—and what role language, art, theology and ecstatic love can play in imagining something different. Show Notes, Resources, and Transcript⁠ of our abridged episode with Haleh Liza Gafori on her translation of Rumi⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ Thank you to our sponsors: Ka’Chava: Go to ⁠⁠⁠⁠https://kachava.com⁠⁠⁠⁠ and use code NSE for 15% off your next order Boll and Branch: Get 20% off plus free shipping by visiting ⁠⁠⁠⁠BollAndBranch.com/NSE⁠⁠⁠⁠ AquaTru: Go to  ⁠⁠⁠⁠AquaTru.com⁠⁠⁠⁠ and use promo code NSE Piper and Leaf: Get a 10% off discount to the Advent Calendar by using my code 'NSE' at ⁠piperandleaf.com⁠ Tickets to Nov 23rd NSE Live in Nashville: ⁠⁠⁠⁠https://www.nashvillesymphony.org/nosmallendeavor⁠⁠⁠ ⁠Join NSE+⁠ — our subscriber-only community — for ad-free listening, member-only bonus content, and early access to live show tickets. Your membership helps make No Small Endeavor sustainable. No Small Endeavor: An award-winning podcast that asks what it means to live a good life. Through conversations with leading thinkers across theology, philosophy, psychology, politics, and the social sciences, we explore human flourishing, meaning and purpose, faith and culture, science and religion, virtue and character, community, and the practices that help shape a good life grounded in truth, beauty, and goodness. Follow ⁠@nosmallendeavor⁠  Host Lee C. Camp: Lee has worked as a professor of theology & ethics for more than 25 years, teaching and writing on topics of faith & politics, inter-religious dialog, and human flourishing at the intersection of theology, moral philosophy, and social sciences. Follow ⁠@leeccamp ⁠ Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Joy Harjo joins us for part one of a three-part series asking the question posed by poet Christian Wiman: What is poetry’s role when the world is burning? It’s not a metaphorical question. We’re living through wars, climate collapse, collective burnout, and political fragmentation. What possibly might human flourishing mean in such a context? And what might poetry have to do with it?  Here, three‑term U.S. Poet Laureate Joy Harjo (Muskogee Creek Nation) shares how her poetry emerges from pain, memory, and fierce hope. She reflects on the loss and colonization embedded in her own family story—from the Trail of Tears to the extraction of resources from her tribal lands—and how those historical wounds still pulse in our shared present. Harjo also traces her coming‑of‑age: learning to find voice through art and activism, encountering the power and beauty of Native elders and poets, recognizing the injustice hidden in history textbooks, and experiencing the healing that comes through being seen and witnessed in kindness. Amidst crises of war, climate, racial injustice, and spiritual dislocation, she argues that poetry is not luxury or escape—it is ritual, ceremony, language of the sacred, a way to speak to the soul and open space for listening and transformation. Her upcoming book Girl Warrior: On Coming of Age becomes a touchstone in this conversation—one that unearths the raw edges of adolescence, grief, identity, heritage, and hope. This episode invites you to reckon with legacy, cultivate courage, and consider how poetry and voice are vital to living with purpose, meaning, and belonging. ⁠⁠Show Notes, Resources, and Transcript⁠ for our episode with Joy Harjo⁠ Thank you to our sponsors: Ka’Chava: Go to ⁠⁠⁠https://kachava.com⁠⁠⁠ and use code NSE for 15% off your next order Boll and Branch: Get 20% off plus free shipping by visiting ⁠⁠⁠BollAndBranch.com/NSE⁠⁠⁠ AquaTru: Go to  ⁠⁠⁠AquaTru.com⁠⁠⁠ and use promo code NSE Piper and Leaf: Get a 10% off discount to the Advent Calendar by using my code 'NSE' at piperandleaf.com Tickets to Nov 23rd NSE Live in Nashville: ⁠⁠⁠⁠https://www.nashvillesymphony.org/nosmallendeavor⁠⁠⁠ ⁠Join NSE+⁠ — our subscriber-only community — for ad-free listening, member-only bonus content, and early access to live show tickets. Your membership helps make No Small Endeavor sustainable. No Small Endeavor: An award-winning podcast that asks what it means to live a good life. Through conversations with leading thinkers across theology, philosophy, psychology, politics, and the social sciences, we explore human flourishing, meaning and purpose, faith and culture, science and religion, virtue and character, community, and the practices that help shape a good life grounded in truth, beauty, and goodness. Follow ⁠@nosmallendeavor⁠  Host Lee C. Camp: Lee has worked as a professor of theology & ethics for more than 25 years, teaching and writing on topics of faith & politics, inter-religious dialog, and human flourishing at the intersection of theology, moral philosophy, and social sciences. Follow ⁠@leeccamp ⁠ Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

In this episode, Savannah and Lee celebrate the 25th anniversary of Gilmore Girls and use Melissa McCarthy’s viral story about Yanic Truesdale’s “fake” French accent as a springboard to talk about authenticity, faith, and what we’ve been trained to hear as “real.” From Luke’s Diner to the Sermon on the Mount, this episode asks: how do we tell the difference between the real thing and a good imitation…and would we even recognize Jesus’s accent if we heard it today? Follow The Subtext: Instagram | Threads | X | YouTube | TikTok Follow Lee: Instagram | Twitter | Lee's Newsletter Follow Savannah: Instagram | Substack Join our Email List: nosmallendeavor.com Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Joy Harjo joins us for part one of a three-part series asking the question posed by poet Christian Wiman: What is poetry’s role when the world is burning? It’s not a metaphorical question. We’re living through wars, climate collapse, collective burnout, and political fragmentation. What possibly might human flourishing mean in such a context? And what might poetry have to do with it?  Here, three‑term U.S. Poet Laureate Joy Harjo (Muskogee Creek Nation) shares how her poetry emerges from pain, memory, and fierce hope. She reflects on the loss and colonization embedded in her own family story—from the Trail of Tears to the extraction of resources from her tribal lands—and how those historical wounds still pulse in our shared present. Harjo also traces her coming‑of‑age: learning to find voice through art and activism, encountering the power and beauty of Native elders and poets, recognizing the injustice hidden in history textbooks, and experiencing the healing that comes through being seen and witnessed in kindness. Amidst crises of war, climate, racial injustice, and spiritual dislocation, she argues that poetry is not luxury or escape—it is ritual, ceremony, language of the sacred, a way to speak to the soul and open space for listening and transformation. Her upcoming book Girl Warrior: On Coming of Age becomes a touchstone in this conversation—one that unearths the raw edges of adolescence, grief, identity, heritage, and hope. This episode invites you to reckon with legacy, cultivate courage, and consider how poetry and voice are vital to living with purpose, meaning, and belonging. ⁠⁠Show Notes, Resources, and Transcript⁠ for our episode with Joy Harjo⁠ Thank you to our sponsors: Ka’Chava: Go to ⁠⁠https://kachava.com⁠⁠ and use code NSE for 15% off your next order Boll and Branch: Get 20% off plus free shipping by visiting ⁠⁠BollAndBranch.com/NSE⁠⁠ AquaTru: Go to  ⁠⁠AquaTru.com⁠⁠ and use promo code NSE Tickets to Nov 23rd NSE Live in Nashville: ⁠⁠⁠⁠https://www.nashvillesymphony.org/nosmallendeavor⁠⁠⁠ ⁠Join NSE+⁠ — our subscriber-only community — for ad-free listening, member-only bonus content, and early access to live show tickets. Your membership helps make No Small Endeavor sustainable. No Small Endeavor: An award-winning podcast that asks what it means to live a good life. Through conversations with leading thinkers across theology, philosophy, psychology, politics, and the social sciences, we explore human flourishing, meaning and purpose, faith and culture, science and religion, virtue and character, community, and the practices that help shape a good life grounded in truth, beauty, and goodness. Follow ⁠@nosmallendeavor⁠  Host Lee C. Camp: Lee has worked as a professor of theology & ethics for more than 25 years, teaching and writing on topics of faith & politics, inter-religious dialog, and human flourishing at the intersection of theology, moral philosophy, and social sciences. Follow ⁠@leeccamp ⁠ Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

This is our unabridged interview with Garrett Graff. What can it possibly mean to flourish in our tech saturated world? In the early 2000s, the internet felt like a civic miracle in the making, with profound possibilities for human flourishing and civic progress. Facebook gave voice to protestors in Egypt’s Tahrir Square. Twitter helped bring down dictators. The web seemed poised to enhance democracy, amplify transparency, and connect us more deeply. But then the tide turned. This episode features Garrett Graff, historian, journalist, and host of the award-winning podcast Long Shadow: Breaking the Internet. In this sobering conversation, Graff joins Lee to unpack how a platform born of hope became a tool for outrage, surveillance, and even genocide. Drawing on more than three decades of digital history, Graff traces how tech's shift from user-driven exploration to algorithmic manipulation created not just a loss of innocence—but a structural system designed to enrage. We hear the story of the Arab Spring, where connectivity spurred revolution, only to become a mechanism of authoritarian control. We examine Myanmar, where unchecked hate speech on Facebook helped fuel mass atrocities. And we explore a haunting question: What kind of people are we becoming through our use of these technologies? Along the way, Graff reflects on his own tech optimism, the moral responsibility of tech executives, and why understanding internet history is a civic—not academic—duty. He and Lee also examine whether AI is already repeating these same mistakes. If you’ve ever asked how the internet became what it is today—or what role we each play in its future—this episode offers both clarity and a call to courage. Garrett Graff’s insights offer one of the most thoughtful takes yet on the digital age’s moral and social consequences. Show Notes, Resources, and Transcript⁠ for abridged episode with Garrett Graff. Thank you to our sponsors: Ka’Chava: Go to ⁠⁠https://kachava.com⁠⁠ and use code NSE for 15% off your next order Boll and Branch: Get 20% off plus free shipping by visiting ⁠⁠BollAndBranch.com/NSE⁠⁠ AquaTru: Go to  ⁠⁠AquaTru.com⁠⁠ and use promo code NSE Tickets to Nov 23rd NSE Live in Nashville: ⁠⁠⁠⁠https://www.nashvillesymphony.org/nosmallendeavor⁠⁠⁠ ⁠Join NSE+⁠ — our subscriber-only community — for ad-free listening, member-only bonus content, and early access to live show tickets. Your membership helps make No Small Endeavor sustainable. No Small Endeavor: An award-winning podcast that asks what it means to live a good life. Through conversations with leading thinkers across theology, philosophy, psychology, politics, and the social sciences, we explore human flourishing, meaning and purpose, faith and culture, science and religion, virtue and character, community, and the practices that help shape a good life grounded in truth, beauty, and goodness. Follow ⁠@nosmallendeavor⁠  Host Lee C. Camp: Lee has worked as a professor of theology & ethics for more than 25 years, teaching and writing on topics of faith & politics, inter-religious dialog, and human flourishing at the intersection of theology, moral philosophy, and social sciences. Follow ⁠@leeccamp ⁠ Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

When a Christian influencer warns moms that Taylor Swift will lead their daughters astray, the conversation has moved beyond pop music and into culture. In this episode, Savannah and Lee trace how the church has wrestled with cultural artifacts, including Niebuhr’s Christ and Culture, and what frameworks can help us understand modern reactions to celebrities like Swift. Then, they turn to Life of a Showgirl to explore how Taylor’s own storytelling exposes what we actually believe about celebrity, power, and holiness in the world. Follow The Subtext: Instagram | Threads | X | YouTube | TikTok Follow Lee: Instagram | Twitter | Lee's Newsletter Follow Savannah: Instagram | Substack Join our Email List: nosmallendeavor.com Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

What can it possibly mean to flourish in our tech saturated world? In the early 2000s, the internet felt like a civic miracle in the making, with profound possibilities for human flourishing and civic progress. Facebook gave voice to protestors in Egypt’s Tahrir Square. Twitter helped bring down dictators. The web seemed poised to enhance democracy, amplify transparency, and connect us more deeply. But then the tide turned. This episode features Garrett Graff, historian, journalist, and host of the award-winning podcast Long Shadow: Breaking the Internet. In this sobering conversation, Graff joins Lee to unpack how a platform born of hope became a tool for outrage, surveillance, and even genocide. Drawing on more than three decades of digital history, Graff traces how tech's shift from user-driven exploration to algorithmic manipulation created not just a loss of innocence—but a structural system designed to enrage. We hear the story of the Arab Spring, where connectivity spurred revolution, only to become a mechanism of authoritarian control. We examine Myanmar, where unchecked hate speech on Facebook helped fuel mass atrocities. And we explore a haunting question: What kind of people are we becoming through our use of these technologies? Along the way, Graff reflects on his own tech optimism, the moral responsibility of tech executives, and why understanding internet history is a civic—not academic—duty. He and Lee also examine whether AI is already repeating these same mistakes. If you’ve ever asked how the internet became what it is today—or what role we each play in its future—this episode offers both clarity and a call to courage. Garrett Graff’s insights offer one of the most thoughtful takes yet on the digital age’s moral and social consequences. Show Notes, Resources, and Transcript⁠ for abridged episode with Garrett Graff. Thank you to our sponsors: Ka’Chava: Go to ⁠https://kachava.com⁠ and use code NSE for 15% off your next order Boll and Branch: Get 20% off plus free shipping by visiting ⁠BollAndBranch.com/NSE⁠ AquaTru: Go to  ⁠AquaTru.com⁠ and use promo code NSE Tickets to Nov 23rd NSE Live in Nashville: ⁠⁠⁠⁠https://www.nashvillesymphony.org/nosmallendeavor⁠⁠⁠ ⁠Join NSE+⁠ — our subscriber-only community — for ad-free listening, member-only bonus content, and early access to live show tickets. Your membership helps make No Small Endeavor sustainable. No Small Endeavor: An award-winning podcast that asks what it means to live a good life. Through conversations with leading thinkers across theology, philosophy, psychology, politics, and the social sciences, we explore human flourishing, meaning and purpose, faith and culture, science and religion, virtue and character, community, and the practices that help shape a good life grounded in truth, beauty, and goodness. Follow ⁠@nosmallendeavor⁠  Host Lee C. Camp: Lee has worked as a professor of theology & ethics for more than 25 years, teaching and writing on topics of faith & politics, inter-religious dialog, and human flourishing at the intersection of theology, moral philosophy, and social sciences. Follow ⁠@leeccamp ⁠ Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

This is our unabridged interview with Anna Sale. When Anna Sale launched Death, Sex & Money in 2014, she was 30 years old, newly divorced, living alone in a studio apartment in New York City, and trying to figure out what her life would become. She had covered politics as a reporter, but her personal world was unraveling. So she started asking strangers to talk about hard things, the questions she herself was desperate to explore: How do people rebuild after loss? What do we do with grief, shame, money, or fractured relationships? What does it mean to live with honesty when the easy script disappears? Over the past decade, Anna Sale has become one of the most trusted voices on how to have hard conversations—the ones we often avoid but need most. Her hit podcast has been named Podcast of the Year by The Atlantic and Apple Podcasts, and her book, Let’s Talk About Hard Things, has been embraced as a guide for meaningful living. In this conversation, Anna and Lee explore the important difference between "let's talk about HARD things" and "yes, LET's! let's talk about hard things." And why talk about hard things might be, potentially, among the most life-giving conversations. They discuss shame and grief, the ways our families teach us what not to talk about, and the habits that help us listen well. Anna reflects on her own divorce, her Unitarian Universalist upbringing, and how practices of honesty and vulnerability help us build flourishing relationships even across cultural divides. Along the way, Anna shares wisdom on navigating sex and intimacy without shame, why money conversations trigger so much discomfort, and what facing death can teach us about authentic human flourishing. Her insights blend psychology and happiness research, theology and culture, and a deep faith in the inherent dignity of every person. A beautiful conversation about being human, and about what becomes possible when we have the courage to ask hard questions and the patience to really listen. Please be advised that this episode contains details that may be upsetting to some listeners, including reference to suicide. Additional resources are available at:  ⁠ NAMI⁠  ⁠Crisis Textline⁠ ⁠Show Notes, Resources, and Transcript⁠ for abridged episode with Anna Sale⁠ Thank you to our sponsors: Ka’Chava: Go to ⁠https://kachava.com⁠ and use code NSE for 15% off your next order Boll and Branch: Get 20% off plus free shipping by visiting ⁠BollAndBranch.com/NSE⁠ AquaTru: Go to  ⁠AquaTru.com⁠ and use promo code NSE Tickets to Nov 23rd NSE Live in Nashville: ⁠⁠⁠⁠https://www.nashvillesymphony.org/nosmallendeavor⁠⁠⁠ ⁠Join NSE+⁠ — our subscriber-only community — for ad-free listening, member-only bonus content, and early access to live show tickets. Your membership helps make No Small Endeavor sustainable. No Small Endeavor: An award-winning podcast that asks what it means to live a good life. Through conversations with leading thinkers across theology, philosophy, psychology, politics, and the social sciences, we explore human flourishing, meaning and purpose, faith and culture, science and religion, virtue and character, community, and the practices that help shape a good life grounded in truth, beauty, and goodness. Follow ⁠@nosmallendeavor⁠  Host Lee C. Camp: Lee has worked as a professor of theology & ethics for more than 25 years, teaching and writing on topics of faith & politics, inter-religious dialog, and human flourishing at the intersection of theology, moral philosophy, and social sciences. Follow ⁠@leeccamp ⁠ Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Here’s a preview of a new podcast series that Lee recently appeared in, The Alabama Murders from Revisionist History. Florence, Alabama. 1988. A preacher has an affair. A woman is murdered. One death cascades into more, stretching across decades and leaving no one untouched — victims, bystanders, perpetrators, and those just trying to help. On The Alabama Murders, Malcolm Gladwell asks: why, in our efforts to alleviate suffering, do we so often make it worse? Find Revisionist History: The Alabama Murders wherever you get podcasts. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

When Spotify CEO Daniel Ek invests in a military AI startup, it raises a deeper question: how do we live with integrity in systems that profit from harm? In this episode, we explore the uncomfortable relationship between the best and brightest, money, and violence—from Deerhoof’s protest to Oppenheimer’s legacy, from Walter Wink’s “powers that be” to Dorothy Day’s radical refusal to cooperate. Is resistance possible in a world where no dollar is clean? And what does the Kingdom of God have to do with any of it? Follow The Subtext: ⁠⁠Instagram⁠⁠ | ⁠⁠Threads⁠⁠ | ⁠⁠X⁠⁠ | ⁠⁠YouTube⁠⁠ | ⁠⁠TikTok⁠⁠ Follow Lee: ⁠⁠Instagram⁠⁠ | ⁠⁠Twitter⁠⁠ | ⁠⁠Lee's Newsletter⁠⁠ Follow Savannah: ⁠⁠Instagram⁠⁠ | ⁠⁠Substack⁠⁠ Join our Email List: ⁠⁠nosmallendeavor.com Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

When Anna Sale launched Death, Sex & Money in 2014, she was 30 years old, newly divorced, living alone in a studio apartment in New York City, and trying to figure out what her life would become. She had covered politics as a reporter, but her personal world was unraveling. So she started asking strangers to talk about hard things, the questions she herself was desperate to explore: How do people rebuild after loss? What do we do with grief, shame, money, or fractured relationships? What does it mean to live with honesty when the easy script disappears? Over the past decade, Anna Sale has become one of the most trusted voices on how to have hard conversations—the ones we often avoid but need most. Her hit podcast has been named Podcast of the Year by The Atlantic and Apple Podcasts, and her book, Let’s Talk About Hard Things, has been embraced as a guide for meaningful living. In this conversation, Anna and Lee explore the important difference between "let's talk about HARD things" and "yes, LET's! let's talk about hard things." And why talk about hard things might be, potentially, among the most life-giving conversations. They discuss shame and grief, the ways our families teach us what not to talk about, and the habits that help us listen well. Anna reflects on her own divorce, her Unitarian Universalist upbringing, and how practices of honesty and vulnerability help us build flourishing relationships even across cultural divides. Along the way, Anna shares wisdom on navigating sex and intimacy without shame, why money conversations trigger so much discomfort, and what facing death can teach us about authentic human flourishing. Her insights blend psychology and happiness research, theology and culture, and a deep faith in the inherent dignity of every person. A beautiful conversation about being human, and about what becomes possible when we have the courage to ask hard questions and the patience to really listen. Please be advised that this episode contains details that may be upsetting to some listeners, including reference to suicide. Additional resources are available at:  NAMI  Crisis Textline Show Notes, Resources, and Transcript⁠ for abridged episode with Anna Sale Thank you to our sponsors: Ka’Chava: Go to ⁠https://kachava.com⁠ and use code NSE for 15% off your next order Boll and Branch: Get 20% off plus free shipping by visiting ⁠BollAndBranch.com/NSE⁠ AquaTru: Go to  ⁠AquaTru.com⁠ and use promo code NSE Tickets to Nov 23rd NSE Live in Nashville: ⁠⁠⁠⁠https://www.nashvillesymphony.org/nosmallendeavor⁠⁠⁠ ⁠Join NSE+⁠ — our subscriber-only community — for ad-free listening, member-only bonus content, and early access to live show tickets. Your membership helps make No Small Endeavor sustainable. No Small Endeavor: An award-winning podcast that asks what it means to live a good life. Through conversations with leading thinkers across theology, philosophy, psychology, politics, and the social sciences, we explore human flourishing, meaning and purpose, faith and culture, science and religion, virtue and character, community, and the practices that help shape a good life grounded in truth, beauty, and goodness. Follow ⁠@nosmallendeavor⁠  Host Lee C. Camp: Lee has worked as a professor of theology & ethics for more than 25 years, teaching and writing on topics of faith & politics, inter-religious dialog, and human flourishing at the intersection of theology, moral philosophy, and social sciences. Follow ⁠@leeccamp ⁠ Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

This is our unabridged interview with Terence Lester. It was three days before Christmas when Terence Lester’s family dropped him beneath a bridge in Atlanta. With no change of clothes and a biting winter cold, he began a month-long experiment in solidarity with the unhoused. Strangers offered blankets, socks, even stories around a firepit. It was humbling, painful, and life-altering. And it was from this crucible that Love Beyond Walls was born—a nonprofit dedicated to restoring dignity and community for those pushed to the margins: an exploration into what human flourishing might entail among the disenfranchised.  In this episode of No Small Endeavor, Lee C. Camp sits down with scholar and activist Terence Lester, whose own journey from dropout to doctorate is as much about human flourishing as it is about survival. His book, From Dropout to Doctorate: Breaking the Chains of Educational Injustice, chronicles the wounds of generational trauma, systemic barriers, and the loneliness of feeling unseen—but also the surprising sanctuaries: a stranger’s word of courage, a teacher’s belief, and a church’s embrace, and the daily practices that sustain new ways forward. They explore how trauma shapes education, how community makes flourishing relationships possible, and how storytelling itself becomes a form of justice. Terence Lester reminds us that poverty is not just economic—it is cultural, emotional, spiritual—and that courage and compassion are required if we are to serve the common good. It is an invitation to become people who borrow and lend courage, to create sanctuaries for others, and to live with an intention toward justice, belonging, and authentic human flourishing. ⁠⁠⁠Show Notes, Resources, and Transcript⁠ for abridged episode with Terence Lester⁠⁠ Thank you to our sponsors: Ka’Chava: Go to https://kachava.com and use code NSE for 15% off your next order Boll and Branch: Get 20% off plus free shipping by visiting BollAndBranch.com/NSE AquaTru: Go to  AquaTru.com and use promo code NSE Tickets to Nov 23rd NSE Live in Nashville: ⁠⁠⁠⁠https://www.nashvillesymphony.org/nosmallendeavor⁠⁠⁠ ⁠Join NSE+⁠ — our subscriber-only community — for ad-free listening, member-only bonus content, and early access to live show tickets. Your membership helps make No Small Endeavor sustainable. No Small Endeavor: An award-winning podcast that asks what it means to live a good life. Through conversations with leading thinkers across theology, philosophy, psychology, politics, and the social sciences, we explore human flourishing, meaning and purpose, faith and culture, science and religion, virtue and character, community, and the practices that help shape a good life grounded in truth, beauty, and goodness. Follow ⁠@nosmallendeavor⁠  Host Lee C. Camp: Lee has worked as a professor of theology & ethics for more than 25 years, teaching and writing on topics of faith & politics, inter-religious dialog, and human flourishing at the intersection of theology, moral philosophy, and social sciences. Follow ⁠@leeccamp ⁠ Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

In this episode, Lee and Savannah explore why friendships are harder to form and sustain in today’s culture, despite living in the most “connected” era in history. They examine how technology and convenience have reshaped friendship from a priority into a luxury. They ask whether these shifts meet our deep human need for connection or quietly erode it. Ultimately, the conversation wrestles with how we might resist the forces of isolation and reclaim friendship as essential to a flourishing life. Follow The Subtext: ⁠Instagram⁠ | ⁠Threads⁠ | ⁠X⁠ | ⁠YouTube⁠ | ⁠TikTok⁠ Follow Lee: ⁠Instagram⁠ | ⁠Twitter⁠ | ⁠Lee's Newsletter⁠ Follow Savannah: ⁠Instagram⁠ | ⁠Substack⁠ Join our Email List: ⁠nosmallendeavor.com Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

It was three days before Christmas when Terence Lester’s family dropped him beneath a bridge in Atlanta. With no change of clothes and a biting winter cold, he began a month-long experiment in solidarity with the unhoused. Strangers offered blankets, socks, even stories around a firepit. It was humbling, painful, and life-altering. And it was from this crucible that Love Beyond Walls was born—a nonprofit dedicated to restoring dignity and community for those pushed to the margins: an exploration into what human flourishing might entail among the disenfranchised.  In this episode of No Small Endeavor, Lee C. Camp sits down with scholar and activist Terence Lester, whose own journey from dropout to doctorate is as much about human flourishing as it is about survival. His book, From Dropout to Doctorate: Breaking the Chains of Educational Injustice, chronicles the wounds of generational trauma, systemic barriers, and the loneliness of feeling unseen—but also the surprising sanctuaries: a stranger’s word of courage, a teacher’s belief, and a church’s embrace, and the daily practices that sustain new ways forward. They explore how trauma shapes education, how community makes flourishing relationships possible, and how storytelling itself becomes a form of justice. Terence Lester reminds us that poverty is not just economic—it is cultural, emotional, spiritual—and that courage and compassion are required if we are to serve the common good. It is an invitation to become people who borrow and lend courage, to create sanctuaries for others, and to live with an intention toward justice, belonging, and authentic human flourishing. ⁠⁠Show Notes, Resources, and Transcript⁠ for abridged episode with Terence Lester⁠ Thank you to our sponsors: Ka’Chava: Click ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠here⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ and use code NSE for 15% off your next order. Boll and Branch: Get 20% off plus free shipping by visiting ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠BollAndBranch.com/NSE⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ Tickets to Nov 23rd NSE Live in Nashville: ⁠⁠⁠⁠https://www.nashvillesymphony.org/nosmallendeavor⁠⁠⁠ ⁠Join NSE+⁠ — our subscriber-only community — for ad-free listening, member-only bonus content, and early access to live show tickets. Your membership helps make No Small Endeavor sustainable. No Small Endeavor: An award-winning podcast that asks what it means to live a good life. Through conversations with leading thinkers across theology, philosophy, psychology, politics, and the social sciences, we explore human flourishing, meaning and purpose, faith and culture, science and religion, virtue and character, community, and the practices that help shape a good life grounded in truth, beauty, and goodness. Follow ⁠@nosmallendeavor⁠  Host Lee C. Camp: Lee has worked as a professor of theology & ethics for more than 25 years, teaching and writing on topics of faith & politics, inter-religious dialog, and human flourishing at the intersection of theology, moral philosophy, and social sciences. Follow ⁠@leeccamp ⁠ Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

This is our unabridged interview with Jen Hatmaker. Jen Hatmaker's world unraveled at 2.00 a.m. one night when she awoke to hear her husband of 26 years lying beside her in bed, voice-texting his girlfriend.  That's the brutal story with which Jen begins her new memoir, Awake: A Memoir of Reinvention and Recovery. It was the start of a long, painful journey—through grief, honesty with her self, and ultimately, toward authentic human flourishing. Jen shares what it meant to lose not only her marriage, but also the public persona she had spent decades building. Best known as a bestselling author and beloved Christian speaker, Hatmaker found herself stripped of the institutional supports that once held her world together. And yet, in that undoing, she began the slow work of reinvention. Lee and Jen explore the process of grief, self-awareness, and personal growth—why many of us fear the truth, how religious systems can discourage vulnerability, and what it looks like to move from codependency toward self-compassion. And, Hatmaker speaks candidly about the body’s wisdom, the challenge of letting go, and the act of befriending yourself. Jen Hatmaker is the author of fourteen books, including four New York Times bestsellers, and host of the podcast For the Love. Her latest book, Awake, offers a vulnerable account of healing after loss—exploring what it means to live with purpose, even when everything falls apart. ⁠⁠ Show Notes, Resources, and Transcript⁠ for abridged episode with Jen Hatmaker⁠ Thank you to our sponsors: Ka’Chava: Click ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠here⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ and use code NSE for 15% off your next order. Boll and Branch: Get 20% off plus free shipping by visiting ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠BollAndBranch.com/NSE⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ Tickets to Nov 23rd NSE Live in Nashville: ⁠⁠⁠⁠https://www.nashvillesymphony.org/nosmallendeavor⁠⁠⁠ ⁠Join NSE+⁠ — our subscriber-only community — for ad-free listening, member-only bonus content, and early access to live show tickets. Your membership helps make No Small Endeavor sustainable. No Small Endeavor: An award-winning podcast that asks what it means to live a good life. Through conversations with leading thinkers across theology, philosophy, psychology, politics, and the social sciences, we explore human flourishing, meaning and purpose, faith and culture, science and religion, virtue and character, community, and the practices that help shape a good life grounded in truth, beauty, and goodness. Follow ⁠@nosmallendeavor⁠  Host Lee C. Camp: Lee has worked as a professor of theology & ethics for more than 25 years, teaching and writing on topics of faith & politics, inter-religious dialog, and human flourishing at the intersection of theology, moral philosophy, and social sciences. Follow ⁠@leeccamp ⁠ Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

In this episode, Savannah Locke and Lee C. Camp dive into a critical discussion of the Netflix show "America's Sweethearts" and the Dallas Cowboys cheerleaders' fight for fair wages. This sparks a broader conversation about the wealth gap, the commodification of labor—including human bodies—in professional sports, and the different types of justice. They explore why many American Christians might be hesitant to critique systemic wealth inequality, referencing historical Christian traditions on money and justice. Plus important public service announcements about skunks and shoes. Follow The Subtext: Instagram | Threads | X | YouTube | TikTok Follow Lee: Instagram | Twitter | Lee's Newsletter Follow Savannah: Instagram | Substack Join our Email List: nosmallendeavor.com Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Jen Hatmaker's world unraveled at 2.00 a.m. one night when she awoke to hear her husband of 26 years lying beside her in bed, voice-texting his girlfriend.  That's the brutal story with which Jen begins her new memoir, Awake: A Memoir of Reinvention and Recovery. It was the start of a long, painful journey—through grief, honesty with her self, and ultimately, toward authentic human flourishing. Jen shares what it meant to lose not only her marriage, but also the public persona she had spent decades building. Best known as a bestselling author and beloved Christian speaker, Hatmaker found herself stripped of the institutional supports that once held her world together. And yet, in that undoing, she began the slow work of reinvention. Lee and Jen explore the process of grief, self-awareness, and personal growth—why many of us fear the truth, how religious systems can discourage vulnerability, and what it looks like to move from codependency toward self-compassion. And, Hatmaker speaks candidly about the body’s wisdom, the challenge of letting go, and the act of befriending yourself. Jen Hatmaker is the author of fourteen books, including four New York Times bestsellers, and host of the podcast For the Love. Her latest book, Awake, offers a vulnerable account of healing after loss—exploring what it means to live with purpose, even when everything falls apart. ⁠Show Notes, Resources, and Transcript⁠ for abridged episode with Jen Hatmaker Thank you to our sponsors: Ka’Chava: Click ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠here⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ and use code NSE for 15% off your next order. Boll and Branch: Get 20% off plus free shipping by visiting ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠BollAndBranch.com/NSE⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ Tickets to Nov 23rd NSE Live in Nashville: ⁠⁠⁠⁠https://www.nashvillesymphony.org/nosmallendeavor⁠⁠⁠ ⁠Join NSE+⁠ — our subscriber-only community — for ad-free listening, member-only bonus content, and early access to live show tickets. Your membership helps make No Small Endeavor sustainable. No Small Endeavor: An award-winning podcast that asks what it means to live a good life. Through conversations with leading thinkers across theology, philosophy, psychology, politics, and the social sciences, we explore human flourishing, meaning and purpose, faith and culture, science and religion, virtue and character, community, and the practices that help shape a good life grounded in truth, beauty, and goodness. Follow ⁠@nosmallendeavor⁠  Host Lee C. Camp: Lee has worked as a professor of theology & ethics for more than 25 years, teaching and writing on topics of faith & politics, inter-religious dialog, and human flourishing at the intersection of theology, moral philosophy, and social sciences. Follow ⁠@leeccamp ⁠ Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

This is our unabridged interview with Max Lucado. Called “America’s Pastor," Max Lucado has sold more than 150 million products and authored over 40 nonfiction books. In this vulnerable career retrospective interview, Lee explores what led Max Lucado to become almost synonymous with grace, acceptance and forgiveness--namely some of his own wounds from childhood experiences in a frugal, sometimes emotionally volatile West Texas home. He recounts stories of his mother--whom he deeply loved--struggling with undiagnosed depression and difficult mood swings; a cheerful and industrious father who modeled stability; and Max's own heavy drinking in his teenage years.  We also discuss Max's new book, Tame Your Thoughts, rooted in the psychology of thought management alongside biblical principles. As rates of depression and anxiety spike, especially among young people, Lucado’s integration of neuroscience, spiritual reflection, and practical action speaks directly to the needs of a culture wrestling with mental health and personal growth. He shares candidly about his wife’s experience with depression, his own evolving understanding of clinical support, and how brain science—particularly studies around neuroplasticity—has reshaped his approach to spiritual life and leadership. The conversation also examines the ethics of silence and speech, particularly in the context of evangelicalism and American politics. Lucado explains why he historically avoided political commentary—and why, in key moments, he broke that rule. From criticizing Donald Trump’s character during the 2016 election, to asking public forgiveness at a 2020 Black Lives Matter prayer event, he reflects on the risks and responsibilities involved in public moral witness. Themes of grace, trauma, conviction, and community intertwine with personal storytelling and spiritual wisdom. It’s an invitation not just to understand Max Lucado better—but to examine the stories, bruises, and beliefs that shape our own lives. How might your past inform your calling? What hidden scripts are shaping your thoughts—and how can they be rewritten? ⁠⁠⁠Show Notes, Resources, and Transcript⁠ of our abridged episode with Max Lucado⁠⁠ Thank you to our sponsors: Ka’Chava: Click ⁠⁠here⁠⁠ and use code NSE for 15% off your next order. Boll and Branch: Get 20% off plus free shipping by visiting ⁠⁠BollAndBranch.com/NSE⁠⁠ Tickets to Nov 23rd NSE Live in Nashville: ⁠⁠⁠⁠https://www.nashvillesymphony.org/nosmallendeavor⁠⁠⁠ ⁠Join NSE+⁠ — our subscriber-only community — for ad-free listening, member-only bonus content, and early access to live show tickets. Your membership helps make No Small Endeavor sustainable. No Small Endeavor: An award-winning podcast that asks what it means to live a good life. Through conversations with leading thinkers across theology, philosophy, psychology, politics, and the social sciences, we explore human flourishing, meaning and purpose, faith and culture, science and religion, virtue and character, community, and the practices that help shape a good life grounded in truth, beauty, and goodness. Follow ⁠@nosmallendeavor⁠  Host Lee C. Camp: Lee has worked as a professor of theology & ethics for more than 25 years, teaching and writing on topics of faith & politics, inter-religious dialog, and human flourishing at the intersection of theology, moral philosophy, and social sciences. Follow ⁠@leeccamp ⁠ Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

In this episode, we dissect the summer blockbuster Superman that flips the script by emphasizing vulnerability and humanity over untouchable power. Fans have praised the way the movie let Superman cry, lose, and even ask for help, while critics argue it made him too weak. We connect these reactions to questions of faith, asking what it means to worship a vulnerable God who suffered, wept, and even seemed to lose. This episode was recorded on August 29, 2025. Follow The Subtext: ⁠Instagram⁠ | ⁠Threads⁠ | ⁠X⁠ | ⁠YouTube⁠ | ⁠TikTok⁠ Follow Lee: ⁠Instagram⁠ | ⁠Twitter⁠ | ⁠Lee's Newsletter⁠ Follow Savannah: ⁠Instagram⁠ | ⁠Substack⁠ Join our Email List: ⁠nosmallendeavor.com⁠ Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Called “America’s Pastor," Max Lucado has sold more than 150 million products and authored over 40 nonfiction books. In this vulnerable career retrospective interview, Lee explores what led Max Lucado to become almost synonymous with grace, acceptance and forgiveness--namely some of his own wounds from childhood experiences in a frugal, sometimes emotionally volatile West Texas home. He recounts stories of his mother--whom he deeply loved--struggling with undiagnosed depression and difficult mood swings; a cheerful and industrious father who modeled stability; and Max's own heavy drinking in his teenage years.  We also discuss Max's new book, Tame Your Thoughts, rooted in the psychology of thought management alongside biblical principles. As rates of depression and anxiety spike, especially among young people, Lucado’s integration of neuroscience, spiritual reflection, and practical action speaks directly to the needs of a culture wrestling with mental health and personal growth. He shares candidly about his wife’s experience with depression, his own evolving understanding of clinical support, and how brain science—particularly studies around neuroplasticity—has reshaped his approach to spiritual life and leadership. The conversation also examines the ethics of silence and speech, particularly in the context of evangelicalism and American politics. Lucado explains why he historically avoided political commentary—and why, in key moments, he broke that rule. From criticizing Donald Trump’s character during the 2016 election, to asking public forgiveness at a 2020 Black Lives Matter prayer event, he reflects on the risks and responsibilities involved in public moral witness. Themes of grace, trauma, conviction, and community intertwine with personal storytelling and spiritual wisdom. It’s an invitation not just to understand Max Lucado better—but to examine the stories, bruises, and beliefs that shape our own lives. How might your past inform your calling? What hidden scripts are shaping your thoughts—and how can they be rewritten? ⁠⁠⁠⁠Show Notes, Resources, and Transcript⁠ of our abridged episode with Max Lucado⁠⁠⁠ Thank you to our sponsors: Ka’Chava: Click ⁠⁠⁠here⁠⁠⁠ and use code NSE for 15% off your next order. Boll and Branch: Get 20% off plus free shipping by visiting ⁠⁠⁠BollAndBranch.com/NSE⁠⁠⁠ Tickets to Nov 23rd NSE Live in Nashville: ⁠⁠⁠⁠https://www.nashvillesymphony.org/nosmallendeavor⁠⁠⁠ ⁠Join NSE+⁠ — our subscriber-only community — for ad-free listening, member-only bonus content, and early access to live show tickets. Your membership helps make No Small Endeavor sustainable. No Small Endeavor: An award-winning podcast that asks what it means to live a good life. Through conversations with leading thinkers across theology, philosophy, psychology, politics, and the social sciences, we explore human flourishing, meaning and purpose, faith and culture, science and religion, virtue and character, community, and the practices that help shape a good life grounded in truth, beauty, and goodness. Follow ⁠@nosmallendeavor⁠  Host Lee C. Camp: Lee has worked as a professor of theology & ethics for more than 25 years, teaching and writing on topics of faith & politics, inter-religious dialog, and human flourishing at the intersection of theology, moral philosophy, and social sciences. Follow ⁠@leeccamp ⁠ Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

This is our unabridged interview with Amy Sherman. What if the church were known not for culture wars or abuses of power, but for building parks, strengthening schools, advancing science education, and championing restorative justice? That’s the vision Amy L. Sherman lays out in her book Agents of Flourishing. In this conversation, Sherman invites us to imagine faith communities not as insular institutions, but as agents of civic renewal—places that contribute to the common good. Her framework centers on six “endowments” of a thriving society: the Good, the True, the Beautiful, the Just, the Prosperous, and the Sustainable. Each is a way of asking how theology might shape public life: how churches partner with schools, support economic models that value workers and neighborhoods, invest in the arts, and even help design more beautiful and livable cities. At its heart, this is a call to recover a holistic, biblically grounded vision of shalom—where faith is not reduced to Sunday services or private belief, but becomes a public witness for wholeness in our relationships, institutions, and communities. ⁠Show Notes, Resources and Transcript⁠ Tickets to Nov 23rd NSE Live in Nashville: ⁠⁠⁠⁠https://www.nashvillesymphony.org/nosmallendeavor⁠⁠⁠ ⁠Join NSE+⁠ — our subscriber-only community — for ad-free listening, member-only bonus content, and early access to live show tickets. Your membership helps make No Small Endeavor sustainable. No Small Endeavor: An award-winning podcast that asks what it means to live a good life. Through conversations with leading thinkers across theology, philosophy, psychology, politics, and the social sciences, we explore human flourishing, meaning and purpose, faith and culture, science and religion, virtue and character, community, and the practices that help shape a good life grounded in truth, beauty, and goodness. Follow ⁠@nosmallendeavor⁠  Host Lee C. Camp: Lee has worked as a professor of theology & ethics for more than 25 years, teaching and writing on topics of faith & politics, inter-religious dialog, and human flourishing at the intersection of theology, moral philosophy, and social sciences. Follow ⁠@leeccamp ⁠ Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

What if the church were known not for culture wars or abuses of power, but for building parks, strengthening schools, advancing science education, and championing restorative justice? That’s the vision Amy L. Sherman lays out in her book Agents of Flourishing. In this conversation, Sherman invites us to imagine faith communities not as insular institutions, but as agents of civic renewal—places that contribute to the common good. Her framework centers on six “endowments” of a thriving society: the Good, the True, the Beautiful, the Just, the Prosperous, and the Sustainable. Each is a way of asking how theology might shape public life: how churches partner with schools, support economic models that value workers and neighborhoods, invest in the arts, and even help design more beautiful and livable cities. At its heart, this is a call to recover a holistic, biblically grounded vision of shalom—where faith is not reduced to Sunday services or private belief, but becomes a public witness for wholeness in our relationships, institutions, and communities. Show Notes, Resources and Transcript Tickets to Nov 23rd NSE Live in Nashville: ⁠⁠⁠⁠https://www.nashvillesymphony.org/nosmallendeavor⁠⁠⁠ ⁠Join NSE+⁠ — our subscriber-only community — for ad-free listening, member-only bonus content, and early access to live show tickets. Your membership helps make No Small Endeavor sustainable. No Small Endeavor: An award-winning podcast that asks what it means to live a good life. Through conversations with leading thinkers across theology, philosophy, psychology, politics, and the social sciences, we explore human flourishing, meaning and purpose, faith and culture, science and religion, virtue and character, community, and the practices that help shape a good life grounded in truth, beauty, and goodness. Follow ⁠@nosmallendeavor⁠  Host Lee C. Camp: Lee has worked as a professor of theology & ethics for more than 25 years, teaching and writing on topics of faith & politics, inter-religious dialog, and human flourishing at the intersection of theology, moral philosophy, and social sciences. Follow ⁠@leeccamp ⁠ Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

This is part two of our unabridged interview with Parker Palmer. “Things didn’t come together vocationally for me until I was 50.” At 86 years old, Quaker writer, speaker, and activist Parker Palmer has much to say about living a good life. And in his experience, a good life is often hard-won and counterintuitive. In this episode, Parker covers a lot of ground, offering wisdom gleaned from a life lived with attention to the makings of a good life. He tells about his experience seeking and finding vocation, discovering how a rich life entails the embrace of paradox, and living through three major bouts of depression, which gave him an increased attention to life’s small things.  Show Notes  Resources: ⁠Let Your Life Speak by Parker Palmer⁠ ⁠The Courage to Teach by Parker Palmer⁠ ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠  Similar Episodes: ⁠⁠⁠⁠Actor and Activist: Martin Sheen⁠ ⁠Author of The Shack: William Paul Young⁠  ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Transcript⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ Tickets to Nov 23rd NSE Live in Nashville: ⁠⁠⁠⁠https://www.nashvillesymphony.org/nosmallendeavor⁠⁠⁠ ⁠Join NSE+⁠ — our subscriber-only community — for ad-free listening, member-only bonus content, and early access to live show tickets. Your membership helps make No Small Endeavor sustainable. No Small Endeavor: An award-winning podcast that asks what it means to live a good life. Through conversations with leading thinkers across theology, philosophy, psychology, politics, and the social sciences, we explore human flourishing, meaning and purpose, faith and culture, science and religion, virtue and character, community, and the practices that help shape a good life grounded in truth, beauty, and goodness. Follow ⁠@nosmallendeavor⁠  Host Lee C. Camp: Lee has worked as a professor of theology & ethics for more than 25 years, teaching and writing on topics of faith & politics, inter-religious dialog, and human flourishing at the intersection of theology, moral philosophy, and social sciences. Follow ⁠@leeccamp ⁠ Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

This is part one of our unabridged interview with Parker Palmer. “Things didn’t come together vocationally for me until I was 50.” At 86 years old, Quaker writer, speaker, and activist Parker Palmer has much to say about living a good life. And in his experience, a good life is often hard-won and counterintuitive. In this episode, Parker covers a lot of ground, offering wisdom gleaned from a life lived with attention to the makings of a good life. He tells about his experience seeking and finding vocation, discovering how a rich life entails the embrace of paradox, and living through three major bouts of depression, which gave him an increased attention to life’s small things.  Show Notes  Resources: ⁠Let Your Life Speak by Parker Palmer⁠ ⁠The Courage to Teach by Parker Palmer⁠ ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠  Similar Episodes: ⁠⁠⁠⁠Actor and Activist: Martin Sheen⁠ ⁠Author of The Shack: William Paul Young⁠  ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Transcript⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ Tickets to Nov 23rd NSE Live in Nashville: ⁠⁠⁠⁠https://www.nashvillesymphony.org/nosmallendeavor⁠⁠⁠ ⁠Join NSE+⁠ — our subscriber-only community — for ad-free listening, member-only bonus content, and early access to live show tickets. Your membership helps make No Small Endeavor sustainable. No Small Endeavor: An award-winning podcast that asks what it means to live a good life. Through conversations with leading thinkers across theology, philosophy, psychology, politics, and the social sciences, we explore human flourishing, meaning and purpose, faith and culture, science and religion, virtue and character, community, and the practices that help shape a good life grounded in truth, beauty, and goodness. Follow ⁠@nosmallendeavor⁠  Host Lee C. Camp: Lee has worked as a professor of theology & ethics for more than 25 years, teaching and writing on topics of faith & politics, inter-religious dialog, and human flourishing at the intersection of theology, moral philosophy, and social sciences. Follow ⁠@leeccamp ⁠ Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

“Things didn’t come together vocationally for me until I was 50.” At 86 years old, Quaker writer, speaker, and activist Parker Palmer has much to say about living a good life. And in his experience, a good life is often hard-won and counterintuitive. In this episode, Parker covers a lot of ground, offering wisdom gleaned from a life lived with attention to the makings of a good life. He tells about his experience seeking and finding vocation, discovering how a rich life entails the embrace of paradox, and living through three major bouts of depression, which gave him an increased attention to life’s small things.  Show Notes  Resources: Let Your Life Speak by Parker Palmer The Courage to Teach by Parker Palmer ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠  Similar Episodes: ⁠Actor and Activist: Martin Sheen Author of The Shack: William Paul Young  ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Transcript⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ Tickets to Nov 23rd NSE Live in Nashville: ⁠⁠⁠⁠https://www.nashvillesymphony.org/nosmallendeavor⁠⁠⁠ ⁠Join NSE+⁠ — our subscriber-only community — for ad-free listening, member-only bonus content, and early access to live show tickets. Your membership helps make No Small Endeavor sustainable. No Small Endeavor: An award-winning podcast that asks what it means to live a good life. Through conversations with leading thinkers across theology, philosophy, psychology, politics, and the social sciences, we explore human flourishing, meaning and purpose, faith and culture, science and religion, virtue and character, community, and the practices that help shape a good life grounded in truth, beauty, and goodness. Follow ⁠@nosmallendeavor⁠  Host Lee C. Camp: Lee has worked as a professor of theology & ethics for more than 25 years, teaching and writing on topics of faith & politics, inter-religious dialog, and human flourishing at the intersection of theology, moral philosophy, and social sciences. Follow ⁠@leeccamp ⁠ Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

This is our unabridged interview with Anne-Laure Le Cunff. When Anne-Laure Le Cunff—then a high-achieving Google executive—was told to go to the hospital for a life-threatening blood clot, she found herself first checking her calendar. Her bizarre response told her something was wrong with her life and priorities. She left Silicon Valley, earned a degree in neuroscience, and wrote Tiny Experiments: How to Live Freely in a Goal-Obsessed World. In this conversation with Lee C. Camp, Le Cunff explores the neuroscience behind procrastination, perfectionism, and burnout. She introduces a radical yet practical shift: replacing rigid goal-setting with small, curiosity-driven experiments. Drawing from her research at King’s College London and her work at Ness Labs, she explains how embracing uncertainty and intentional imperfection can unlock personal growth, reduce anxiety, and spark creativity. You’ll learn how to redesign your relationship with productivity by experimenting with tiny experiments, explore the psychology of goal-setting, and discover how tiny experiments can help rewire your mental scripts. For anyone struggling with burnout, toxic perfectionism, or simply feeling stuck, this episode offers a science-backed path toward a more adaptive, joyful life. Show Notes, Resources and Transcript⁠⁠ Tickets to Nov 23rd NSE Live in Nashville: ⁠⁠⁠⁠https://www.nashvillesymphony.org/nosmallendeavor⁠⁠⁠ ⁠Join NSE+⁠ — our subscriber-only community — for ad-free listening, member-only bonus content, and early access to live show tickets. Your membership helps make No Small Endeavor sustainable. No Small Endeavor: An award-winning podcast that asks what it means to live a good life. Through conversations with leading thinkers across theology, philosophy, psychology, politics, and the social sciences, we explore human flourishing, meaning and purpose, faith and culture, science and religion, virtue and character, community, and the practices that help shape a good life grounded in truth, beauty, and goodness. Follow ⁠@nosmallendeavor⁠  Host Lee C. Camp: Lee has worked as a professor of theology & ethics for more than 25 years, teaching and writing on topics of faith & politics, inter-religious dialog, and human flourishing at the intersection of theology, moral philosophy, and social sciences. Follow ⁠@leeccamp ⁠ Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

When Anne-Laure Le Cunff—then a high-achieving Google executive—was told to go to the hospital for a life-threatening blood clot, she found herself first checking her calendar. Her bizarre response told her something was wrong with her life and priorities. She left Silicon Valley, earned a degree in neuroscience, and wrote Tiny Experiments: How to Live Freely in a Goal-Obsessed World. In this conversation with Lee C. Camp, Le Cunff explores the neuroscience behind procrastination, perfectionism, and burnout. She introduces a radical yet practical shift: replacing rigid goal-setting with small, curiosity-driven experiments. Drawing from her research at King’s College London and her work at Ness Labs, she explains how embracing uncertainty and intentional imperfection can unlock personal growth, reduce anxiety, and spark creativity. You’ll learn how to redesign your relationship with productivity by experimenting with tiny experiments, explore the psychology of goal-setting, and discover how tiny experiments can help rewire your mental scripts. For anyone struggling with burnout, toxic perfectionism, or simply feeling stuck, this episode offers a science-backed path toward a more adaptive, joyful life. ⁠Show Notes, Resources and Transcript⁠ Tickets to Nov 23rd NSE Live in Nashville: ⁠⁠⁠⁠https://www.nashvillesymphony.org/nosmallendeavor⁠⁠⁠ ⁠Join NSE+⁠ — our subscriber-only community — for ad-free listening, member-only bonus content, and early access to live show tickets. Your membership helps make No Small Endeavor sustainable. No Small Endeavor: An award-winning podcast that asks what it means to live a good life. Through conversations with leading thinkers across theology, philosophy, psychology, politics, and the social sciences, we explore human flourishing, meaning and purpose, faith and culture, science and religion, virtue and character, community, and the practices that help shape a good life grounded in truth, beauty, and goodness. Follow ⁠@nosmallendeavor⁠  Host Lee C. Camp: Lee has worked as a professor of theology & ethics for more than 25 years, teaching and writing on topics of faith & politics, inter-religious dialog, and human flourishing at the intersection of theology, moral philosophy, and social sciences. Follow ⁠@leeccamp ⁠ Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

This is our unabridged interview with Baratunde Thurston. What does it mean to be human in the age of AI? From writing for The Onion to hosting PBS’s America Outdoors and launching the hit podcast Life With Machines, Baratunde Thurston has spent a career telling stories about interdependence—with one another, with the natural world, and now, with rising machine intelligence. Together, he and Lee unpack how AI both challenges and affirms our humanity, and what practices of democracy might guide us toward a more equitable technological future. ⁠Show Notes, Resources and Transcript⁠ Tickets to Nov 23rd NSE Live in Nashville: ⁠⁠⁠⁠https://www.nashvillesymphony.org/nosmallendeavor⁠⁠⁠ ⁠Join NSE+⁠ — our subscriber-only community — for ad-free listening, member-only bonus content, and early access to live show tickets. Your membership helps make No Small Endeavor sustainable. No Small Endeavor: An award-winning podcast that asks what it means to live a good life. Through conversations with leading thinkers across theology, philosophy, psychology, politics, and the social sciences, we explore human flourishing, meaning and purpose, faith and culture, science and religion, virtue and character, community, and the practices that help shape a good life grounded in truth, beauty, and goodness. Follow ⁠@nosmallendeavor⁠  Host Lee C. Camp: Lee has worked as a professor of theology & ethics for more than 25 years, teaching and writing on topics of faith & politics, inter-religious dialog, and human flourishing at the intersection of theology, moral philosophy, and social sciences. Follow ⁠@leeccamp ⁠ Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

What does it mean to be human in the age of AI? From writing for The Onion to hosting PBS’s America Outdoors and launching the hit podcast Life With Machines, Baratunde Thurston has spent a career telling stories about interdependence—with one another, with the natural world, and now, with rising machine intelligence. Together, he and Lee unpack how AI both challenges and affirms our humanity, and what practices of democracy might guide us toward a more equitable technological future. Show Notes, Resources and Transcript Tickets to Nov 23rd NSE Live in Nashville: ⁠⁠⁠⁠https://www.nashvillesymphony.org/nosmallendeavor⁠⁠⁠ ⁠Join NSE+⁠ — our subscriber-only community — for ad-free listening, member-only bonus content, and early access to live show tickets. Your membership helps make No Small Endeavor sustainable. No Small Endeavor: An award-winning podcast that asks what it means to live a good life. Through conversations with leading thinkers across theology, philosophy, psychology, politics, and the social sciences, we explore human flourishing, meaning and purpose, faith and culture, science and religion, virtue and character, community, and the practices that help shape a good life grounded in truth, beauty, and goodness. Follow ⁠@nosmallendeavor⁠  Host Lee C. Camp: Lee has worked as a professor of theology & ethics for more than 25 years, teaching and writing on topics of faith & politics, inter-religious dialog, and human flourishing at the intersection of theology, moral philosophy, and social sciences. Follow ⁠@leeccamp ⁠ Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

This is our unabridged interview with Dan Heath. Do you feel like your life needs a reset?  Lee C. Camp sits down with Dan Heath, bestselling author and host of the podcast What It's Like To Be, to explore strategies of how we can change, whether at work or in our personal lives. In his new book Reset: How to Change What’s Not Working, Dan shares proven techniques he discovered to help transform small observations into meaningful change, paving the way for a more satisfying life.  Show Notes, Resources and Transcript No Small Endeavor: Exploring what it means to live a good life, with thought provoking conversations about human flourishing, theology, politics, faith, social sciences, search for meaning, meaning and purpose, practices, common good, truth beauty and goodness, productivity, habit formation, neuroscience, science and religion, social justice, cardinal virtues, how of happiness, theology and culture, self development, happiness, virtue theory, being human, moral philosophy, community Join our subscriber only community called NSE+ BY CLICKING HERE. Get ad-free listening, great member only bonus content, and early access to tickets for our live shows. AND, know that you're helping make NSE sustainable by becoming a member.  Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Do you feel like your life needs a reset?  Lee C. Camp sits down with Dan Heath, bestselling author and host of the podcast What It's Like To Be, to explore strategies of how we can change, whether at work or in our personal lives. In his new book Reset: How to Change What’s Not Working, Dan shares proven techniques he discovered to help transform small observations into meaningful change, paving the way for a more satisfying life.  ⁠Show Notes, Resources and Transcript⁠ No Small Endeavor: Exploring what it means to live a good life, with thought provoking conversations about human flourishing, theology, politics, faith, social sciences, search for meaning, meaning and purpose, practices, common good, truth beauty and goodness, productivity, habit formation, neuroscience, science and religion, social justice, cardinal virtues, how of happiness, theology and culture, self development, happiness, virtue theory, being human, moral philosophy, community Join our subscriber only community called ⁠NSE+ BY CLICKING HERE⁠. Get ad-free listening, great member only bonus content, and early access to tickets for our live shows. AND, know that you're helping make NSE sustainable by becoming a member.  Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

This is our unabridged interview with Sharon McMahon. Have you ever wished someone would explain the inner workings of America’s political landscape — without taking sides or fueling the outrage machine?  With over 1.3 million Instagram followers, Sharon McMahon, known affectionately as “America’s Government Teacher,” has spent her career doing exactly that. Drawing from her roots in public education, Sharon rose to prominence on social media during the chaotic 2020 election season. Her clear, fact-based explanations of complex government processes have garnered her a loyal following of self-proclaimed “Governerds,” and today, her teaching reaches millions through her acclaimed podcast, Here's Where It Gets Interesting, her best-selling book The Small and the Mighty, and The Preamble, one of America's most widely-read nonpartisan newsletters. In this thoughtful conversation, Sharon reflects on the transformative power of education, the urgent need for informed civic participation, and the hopeful possibilities that emerge when we approach politics not as partisan warriors but as compassionate, curious learners.  ⁠Show Notes, Resources and Transcript⁠ No Small Endeavor: Exploring what it means to live a good life, with thought provoking conversations about human flourishing, theology, politics, faith, social sciences, search for meaning, meaning and purpose, practices, common good, truth beauty and goodness, productivity, habit formation, neuroscience, science and religion, social justice, cardinal virtues, how of happiness, theology and culture, self development, happiness, virtue theory, being human, moral philosophy, community Join our subscriber only community called ⁠NSE+ BY CLICKING HERE⁠. Get ad-free listening, great member only bonus content, and early access to tickets for our live shows. AND, know that you're helping make NSE sustainable by becoming a member.  Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Have you ever wished someone would explain the inner workings of America’s political landscape — without taking sides or fueling the outrage machine?  With over 1.3 million Instagram followers, Sharon McMahon, known affectionately as “America’s Government Teacher,” has spent her career doing exactly that. Drawing from her roots in public education, Sharon rose to prominence on social media during the chaotic 2020 election season. Her clear, fact-based explanations of complex government processes have garnered her a loyal following of self-proclaimed “Governerds,” and today, her teaching reaches millions through her acclaimed podcast, Here's Where It Gets Interesting, her best-selling book The Small and the Mighty, and The Preamble, one of America's most widely-read nonpartisan newsletters. In this thoughtful conversation, Sharon reflects on the transformative power of education, the urgent need for informed civic participation, and the hopeful possibilities that emerge when we approach politics not as partisan warriors but as compassionate, curious learners.  Show Notes, Resources and Transcript No Small Endeavor: Exploring what it means to live a good life, with thought provoking conversations about human flourishing, theology, politics, faith, social sciences, search for meaning, meaning and purpose, practices, common good, truth beauty and goodness, productivity, habit formation, neuroscience, science and religion, social justice, cardinal virtues, how of happiness, theology and culture, self development, happiness, virtue theory, being human, moral philosophy, community Join our subscriber only community called NSE+ BY CLICKING HERE. Get ad-free listening, great member only bonus content, and early access to tickets for our live shows. AND, know that you're helping make NSE sustainable by becoming a member.  Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

This is our unabridged interview with Emma Varvaloucas. What if the way you consume the news could shape the world for the better?  In this stirring conversation, Lee C. Camp sits down with journalist and Buddhist practitioner Emma Varvaloucas, Executive Director of The Progress Network, to explore how we can reclaim our agency in a world addicted to anxiety.  Emma shares practical tips for engaging with the news that not only have the potential to reduce despair but may unlock new energy to take action for a better world. Drawing from her journey through Buddhism, therapy, and even psychedelics, Emma offers tools for transforming our inner world and renewing our civic imagination. This is not about wishful thinking, but a hopeful realism rooted in data, perspective, and the belief that how we see the world can help change it. ⁠Show Notes, Resources and Transcript⁠ No Small Endeavor: Exploring what it means to live a good life, with thought provoking conversations about human flourishing, theology, politics, faith, social sciences, search for meaning, meaning and purpose, practices, common good, truth beauty and goodness, productivity, habit formation, neuroscience, science and religion, social justice, cardinal virtues, how of happiness, theology and culture, self development, happiness, virtue theory, being human, moral philosophy, community Join our subscriber only community called ⁠NSE+ BY CLICKING HERE⁠. Get ad-free listening, great member only bonus content, and early access to tickets for our live shows. AND, know that you're helping make NSE sustainable by becoming a member.  Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

What if the way you consume the news could shape the world for the better?  In this stirring conversation, Lee C. Camp sits down with journalist and Buddhist practitioner Emma Varvaloucas, Executive Director of The Progress Network, to explore how we can reclaim our agency in a world addicted to anxiety.  Emma shares practical tips for engaging with the news that not only have the potential to reduce despair but may unlock new energy to take action for a better world. Drawing from her journey through Buddhism, therapy, and even psychedelics, Emma offers tools for transforming our inner world and renewing our civic imagination. This is not about wishful thinking, but a hopeful realism rooted in data, perspective, and the belief that how we see the world can help change it. Show Notes, Resources and Transcript No Small Endeavor: Exploring what it means to live a good life, with thought provoking conversations about human flourishing, theology, politics, faith, social sciences, search for meaning, meaning and purpose, practices, common good, truth beauty and goodness, productivity, habit formation, neuroscience, science and religion, social justice, cardinal virtues, how of happiness, theology and culture, self development, happiness, virtue theory, being human, moral philosophy, community Join our subscriber only community called NSE+ BY CLICKING HERE. Get ad-free listening, great member only bonus content, and early access to tickets for our live shows. AND, know that you're helping make NSE sustainable by becoming a member.  Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

This is our unabridged interview with Melina Laboucan-Massimo. What does perseverance look like on the long road to justice?  Melina Laboucan-Massimo was born in the Lubicon Cree community of Little Buffalo, in what today is called northern Alberta. Some of her earliest memories include chasing dragonflies through pristine wilderness and protesting with her family against the oil and gas companies that threatened their way of life. Melina spent decades tirelessly advocating for climate justice and indigenous rights, until recently, when the Alberta wildfires left her bedridden and exhausted. Today, Melina and Lee discuss her journey back to health and the pathways forward, grounded in Indigenous knowledge, balance, and collective flourishing.  Show Notes, Resources and Transcript⁠ No Small Endeavor: Exploring what it means to live a good life, with thought provoking conversations about human flourishing, theology, politics, faith, social sciences, search for meaning, meaning and purpose, practices, common good, truth beauty and goodness, productivity, habit formation, neuroscience, science and religion, social justice, cardinal virtues, how of happiness, theology and culture, self development, happiness, virtue theory, being human, moral philosophy, community Join our subscriber only community called ⁠NSE+ BY CLICKING HERE⁠. Get ad-free listening, great member only bonus content, and early access to tickets for our live shows. AND, know that you're helping make NSE sustainable by becoming a member.  Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

What does perseverance look like on the long road to justice?  Melina Laboucan-Massimo was born in the Lubicon Cree community of Little Buffalo, in what today is called northern Alberta. Some of her earliest memories include chasing dragonflies through pristine wilderness and protesting with her family against the oil and gas companies that threatened their way of life. Melina spent decades tirelessly advocating for climate justice and indigenous rights, until recently, when the Alberta wildfires left her bedridden and exhausted. Today, Melina and Lee discuss her journey back to health and the pathways forward, grounded in Indigenous knowledge, balance, and collective flourishing.  Show Notes, Resources and Transcript No Small Endeavor: Exploring what it means to live a good life, with thought provoking conversations about human flourishing, theology, politics, faith, social sciences, search for meaning, meaning and purpose, practices, common good, truth beauty and goodness, productivity, habit formation, neuroscience, science and religion, social justice, cardinal virtues, how of happiness, theology and culture, self development, happiness, virtue theory, being human, moral philosophy, community Join our subscriber only community called NSE+ BY CLICKING HERE. Get ad-free listening, great member only bonus content, and early access to tickets for our live shows. AND, know that you're helping make NSE sustainable by becoming a member.  Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

This is our unabridged interview with Michael Luo. When journalist Michael Luo was told to “go back to China” on a Manhattan sidewalk, it sparked a deeply personal journey into America’s past. In his new book Strangers in the Land, Luo unearths the overlooked history of Chinese exclusion in the U.S.—from early migrations and violent hostility to the nation’s first racially targeted immigration laws. He reflects on the enduring legacies of that history and the echoes we see today. Michael explores not just patterns of injustice but also stories of resilience and solidarity that offer a hopeful vision for America’s future.  ⁠Show Notes, Resources and Transcript⁠ No Small Endeavor: Exploring what it means to live a good life, with thought provoking conversations about human flourishing, theology, politics, faith, social sciences, search for meaning, meaning and purpose, practices, common good, truth beauty and goodness, productivity, habit formation, neuroscience, science and religion, social justice, cardinal virtues, how of happiness, theology and culture, self development, happiness, virtue theory, being human, moral philosophy, community Join our subscriber only community called ⁠NSE+ BY CLICKING HERE⁠. Get ad-free listening, great member only bonus content, and early access to tickets for our live shows. AND, know that you're helping make NSE sustainable by becoming a member.  Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

When journalist Michael Luo was told to “go back to China” on a Manhattan sidewalk, it sparked a deeply personal journey into America’s past. In his new book Strangers in the Land, Luo unearths the overlooked history of Chinese exclusion in the U.S.—from early migrations and violent hostility to the nation’s first racially targeted immigration laws. He reflects on the enduring legacies of that history and the echoes we see today. Michael explores not just patterns of injustice but also stories of resilience and solidarity that offer a hopeful vision for America’s future.  Show Notes, Resources and Transcript No Small Endeavor: Exploring what it means to live a good life, with thought provoking conversations about human flourishing, theology, politics, faith, social sciences, search for meaning, meaning and purpose, practices, common good, truth beauty and goodness, productivity, habit formation, neuroscience, science and religion, social justice, cardinal virtues, how of happiness, theology and culture, self development, happiness, virtue theory, being human, moral philosophy, community Join our subscriber only community called NSE+ BY CLICKING HERE. Get ad-free listening, great member only bonus content, and early access to tickets for our live shows. AND, know that you're helping make NSE sustainable by becoming a member.  Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

In a world that is increasingly dominated by profit over people, it’s easy to be cynical about the future. But what if there was a different way forward? Could capitalism, technology, and human flourishing go hand in hand, and what would it take to get us there? In this episode, Lee Camp invites Astro Teller, co-founder and "Captain of Moonshots" at Alphabet’s X, into a conversation about reshaping the business narrative. From developing sticker technology to track global goods more sustainably, to pioneering affordable ways to remove carbon dioxide from the atmosphere, Astro shares how he thinks moonshot thinking can reconcile profit, purpose, and planetary health.  Show Notes, Resources and Transcript No Small Endeavor: Exploring what it means to live a good life, with thought provoking conversations about human flourishing, theology, politics, faith, social sciences, search for meaning, meaning and purpose, practices, common good, truth beauty and goodness, productivity, habit formation, neuroscience, science and religion, social justice, cardinal virtues, how of happiness, theology and culture, self development, happiness, virtue theory, being human, moral philosophy, community Join our subscriber only community called NSE+ BY CLICKING HERE. Get ad-free listening, great member only bonus content, and early access to tickets for our live shows. AND, know that you're helping make NSE sustainable by becoming a member.  Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

This is our unabridged interview with David Blight.  “If you’re not ready on some level for the tragedies of history, they’re coming to get you.”  In September of 2020 Professor David Blight got an unexpected call from his boss. The President of Yale wanted Blight to work on a project about Yale’s historical involvement with slavery. The undertaking was so enormous that the Pulitzer Prize winning historian remembers sitting on the phone “wishing that conversation wasn't happening.” But 4 years later the book was published. Yale and Slavery: A History has been lauded as “the most mature examination ever made of the role of slavery in a university’s past.”  Lee sits down with David to discuss why how we remember the past matters. “This idea that we don't want history to be divisive or to make people feel unpleasant or unhappy…is of course to manufacture tales that just don't hold up. Which is another way of saying it's like spreading lies in the service of nationalism.”    ⁠Show Notes, Resources and Transcript⁠ No Small Endeavor: Exploring what it means to live a good life, with thought provoking conversations about human flourishing, theology, politics, faith, social sciences, search for meaning, meaning and purpose, practices, common good, truth beauty and goodness, productivity, habit formation, neuroscience, science and religion, social justice, cardinal virtues, how of happiness, theology and culture, self development, happiness, virtue theory, being human, moral philosophy, community Join our subscriber only community called ⁠NSE+ BY CLICKING HERE⁠. Get ad-free listening, great member only bonus content, and early access to tickets for our live shows. AND, know that you're helping make NSE sustainable by becoming a member.  Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

“If you’re not ready on some level for the tragedies of history, they’re coming to get you.”  In September of 2020 Professor David Blight got an unexpected call from his boss. The President of Yale wanted Blight to work on a project about Yale’s historical involvement with slavery. The undertaking was so enormous that the Pulitzer Prize winning historian remembers sitting on the phone “wishing that conversation wasn't happening.” But 4 years later the book was published. Yale and Slavery: A History has been lauded as “the most mature examination ever made of the role of slavery in a university’s past.”  Lee sits down with David to discuss why how we remember the past matters. “This idea that we don't want history to be divisive or to make people feel unpleasant or unhappy…is of course to manufacture tales that just don't hold up. Which is another way of saying it's like spreading lies in the service of nationalism.”  Show Notes, Resources and Transcript No Small Endeavor: Exploring what it means to live a good life, with thought provoking conversations about human flourishing, theology, politics, faith, social sciences, search for meaning, meaning and purpose, practices, common good, truth beauty and goodness, productivity, habit formation, neuroscience, science and religion, social justice, cardinal virtues, how of happiness, theology and culture, self development, happiness, virtue theory, being human, moral philosophy, community Join our subscriber only community called NSE+ BY CLICKING HERE. Get ad-free listening, great member only bonus content, and early access to tickets for our live shows. AND, know that you're helping make NSE sustainable by becoming a member.  Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

This is our unabridged interview with Juliet Schor. Are we working too much?  “Time is a vital resource for us to connect with each other, to connect with the earth and …to come together in solidarity, to try and fix what's wrong.”  We have accepted the 5 day work week as the status quo—caught in a cycle of working more so we can spend more, just to keep up with the Jones’. But what if there's a better way to live: For our own happiness, the economy, and our planet?   Economist and Sociologist Juliet Schor, has spent decades researching the way we work, and her new book - The Four Day Week - invites all of us to imagine a future where work is restructured to serve human needs, not the other way around.  ⁠⁠Show Notes, Resources and Transcript⁠⁠ No Small Endeavor: Exploring what it means to live a good life, with thought provoking conversations about human flourishing, theology, politics, faith, social sciences, search for meaning, meaning and purpose, practices, common good, truth beauty and goodness, productivity, habit formation, neuroscience, science and religion, social justice, cardinal virtues, how of happiness, theology and culture, self development, happiness, virtue theory, being human, moral philosophy, community Join our subscriber only community called ⁠⁠NSE+ BY CLICKING HERE⁠⁠. Get ad-free listening, great member only bonus content, and early access to tickets for our live shows. AND, know that you're helping make NSE sustainable by becoming a member.  Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Are we working too much?  “Time is a vital resource for us to connect with each other, to connect with the earth and …to come together in solidarity, to try and fix what's wrong.”  We have accepted the 5 day work week as the status quo—caught in a cycle of working more so we can spend more, just to keep up with the Jones’. But what if there's a better way to live: For our own happiness, the economy, and our planet?   Economist and Sociologist Juliet Schor, has spent decades researching the way we work, and her new book - The Four Day Week - invites all of us to imagine a future where work is restructured to serve human needs, not the other way around.  ⁠Show Notes, Resources and Transcript⁠ No Small Endeavor: Exploring what it means to live a good life, with thought provoking conversations about human flourishing, theology, politics, faith, social sciences, search for meaning, meaning and purpose, practices, common good, truth beauty and goodness, productivity, habit formation, neuroscience, science and religion, social justice, cardinal virtues, how of happiness, theology and culture, self development, happiness, virtue theory, being human, moral philosophy, community Join our subscriber only community called ⁠NSE+ BY CLICKING HERE⁠. Get ad-free listening, great member only bonus content, and early access to tickets for our live shows. AND, know that you're helping make NSE sustainable by becoming a member.  Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

This is our unabridged interview with Jemar Tisby.  “The work of justice is daunting…It requires courage.”  Have you found yourself asking the question “what can I do in the face of so much injustice?” Historian and New York Times bestselling author Jemar Tisby may have some answers for you. From his own experience as one of the only Black worshipers at the “color-blind” Evangelical services of his youth, to his political awakening in the wake of Michael Brown’s murder in Ferguson, Missouri. Tisby explores the history of social justice in the Christian faith tradition, and asks why the white church has so often relinquished its role in the Civil Rights movement? Lee and Jemar discuss his book The Spirit of Justice, and his new video series, Roadmap to Ruin: How the Church Can Resist the Dismantling of Democracy. ​​ ”I believe hope is, is, is not so much a feeling, but action. And when we take steps that lead to human flourishing, we are in fact demonstrating hope.”  Show Notes  Resources:  "The Spirit of Justice" by Jemar Tisby  "The Color of Compromise" by Jemar Tisby  Roadmap to Ruin  Similar Episodes:  Jerry Mitchell: Murder, Race, and Faith  When Justice Never Comes How Can We Begin Again?  Doing Justice Alongside MLK and Rosa Parks  Transcript  Want more NSE? JOIN NSE+ Today! Our subscriber only community comes with bonus content, ad-free listening, and early access to tickets for our live shows.  Great Feeling Studios, the team behind No Small Endeavor and other award-winning podcasts, helps nonprofits and brands tell stories that inspire action. Start your podcast at helpmemakeapodcast.com.  Subscribe to episodes: Apple | Spotify | Amazon | Google | YouTubeFollow Us: Instagram | Twitter | Facebook | YouTubeFollow Lee: Instagram | TwitterJoin our Email List: nosmallendeavor.com  See Privacy Policy: Privacy Policy  Amazon Affiliate Disclosure: Tokens Media, LLC is a participant in the Amazon Services LLC Associates Program, an affiliate advertising program designed to provide a means for sites to earn advertising fees by advertising and linking to Amazon.com. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

“The work of justice is daunting…It requires courage.”  Have you found yourself asking the question “what can I do in the face of so much injustice?” Historian and New York Times bestselling author Jemar Tisby may have some answers for you. From his own experience as one of the only Black worshipers at the “color-blind” Evangelical services of his youth, to his political awakening in the wake of Michael Brown’s murder in Ferguson, Missouri. Tisby explores the history of social justice in the Christian faith tradition, and asks why the white church has so often relinquished its role in the Civil Rights movement? Lee and Jemar discuss his book The Spirit of Justice, and his new video series, Roadmap to Ruin: How the Church Can Resist the Dismantling of Democracy. ​​ ”I believe hope is, is, is not so much a feeling, but action. And when we take steps that lead to human flourishing, we are in fact demonstrating hope.”  Show Notes  Resources:  "The Spirit of Justice" by Jemar Tisby  "The Color of Compromise" by Jemar Tisby  Roadmap to Ruin  Similar Episodes:  Jerry Mitchell: Murder, Race, and Faith  When Justice Never Comes How Can We Begin Again?  Doing Justice Alongside MLK and Rosa Parks  Transcript  Want more NSE? JOIN NSE+ Today! Our subscriber only community comes with bonus content, ad-free listening, and early access to tickets for our live shows.  Great Feeling Studios, the team behind No Small Endeavor and other award-winning podcasts, helps nonprofits and brands tell stories that inspire action. Start your podcast at helpmemakeapodcast.com.  Subscribe to episodes: Apple | Spotify | Amazon | Google | YouTubeFollow Us: Instagram | Twitter | Facebook | YouTubeFollow Lee: Instagram | TwitterJoin our Email List: nosmallendeavor.com  See Privacy Policy: Privacy Policy  Amazon Affiliate Disclosure: Tokens Media, LLC is a participant in the Amazon Services LLC Associates Program, an affiliate advertising program designed to provide a means for sites to earn advertising fees by advertising and linking to Amazon.com. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

This is our unabridged interview with Amy Grant. Five weeks before her 16th birthday in 1976, Amy Grant was offered her first record deal. Now, after tens of millions of record sales, six Grammy awards, a star on the Hollywood Walk of Fame, and a receipt of Kennedy Center Honors, she is widely recognized as the “Queen of Christian Pop.”  From the outside, one might assume that Amy must be a character with a personality larger than life. But in this exclusive interview, Amy opens up about her career as a singer, her family life, and her faith, all against the backdrop of a troubling past few years which have included recovering from open-heart surgery and a severe bike accident.  Through it all, she showcases what truly makes her an anomaly. In spite of her fame, she remains undoubtedly grounded to a life of quiet, peaceful fulfillment.  Show Notes  Resources:  Amy Grant's Website  Similar Episodes:  “Does This Make My Butt Look Big?”: Ashley Cleveland  Fighting Dragons and Singing at Loss: Drew Holcomb  Actor and Activist: Martin Sheen  Transcript  Want more NSE? JOIN NSE+ Today! Our subscriber only community comes with bonus content, ad-free listening, and early access to tickets for our live shows.  Great Feeling Studios, the team behind No Small Endeavor and other award-winning podcasts, helps nonprofits and brands tell stories that inspire action. Start your podcast at helpmemakeapodcast.com.  Subscribe to episodes: Apple | Spotify | Amazon | Google | YouTubeFollow Us: Instagram | Twitter | Facebook | YouTubeFollow Lee: Instagram | TwitterJoin our Email List: nosmallendeavor.com  See Privacy Policy: Privacy Policy  Amazon Affiliate Disclosure: Tokens Media, LLC is a participant in the Amazon Services LLC Associates Program, an affiliate advertising program designed to provide a means for sites to earn advertising fees by advertising and linking to Amazon.com. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Renowned theologian Walter Brueggemann passed away in June 2025 at the age of 92. In this special retrospective episode of No Small Endeavor, we celebrate his remarkable life and legacy. Drawing from memorable conversations and insightful lectures, we revisit Brueggemann’s piercing critique of what he called the "totalism of market ideology"—the pervasive cultural force shaping American thought and suppressing dissenting voices. With characteristic wisdom, clarity, and wit, Brueggemann challenges us to reject narratives of scarcity, fear, and commodification, inviting us instead into the hopeful vision he famously described as the "prophetic imagination." Listen as he shares personal stories, intellectual turning points, and profound reflections on the power and urgency of truth-telling, both in pulpits and pews.  Show Notes, Resources and Transcript No Small Endeavor: Exploring what it means to live a good life, with thought provoking conversations about human flourishing, theology, politics, faith, social sciences, search for meaning, meaning and purpose, practices, common good, truth beauty and goodness, productivity, habit formation, neuroscience, science and religion, social justice, cardinal virtues, how of happiness, theology and culture, self development, happiness, virtue theory, being human, moral philosophy, community Join our subscriber only community called NSE+ BY CLICKING HERE. Get ad-free listening, great member only bonus content, and early access to tickets for our live shows. AND, know that you're helping make NSE sustainable by becoming a member.  Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Five weeks before her 16th birthday in 1976, Amy Grant was offered her first record deal. Now, after tens of millions of record sales, six Grammy awards, a star on the Hollywood Walk of Fame, and a receipt of Kennedy Center Honors, she is widely recognized as the “Queen of Christian Pop.”  From the outside, one might assume that Amy must be a character with a personality larger than life. But in this exclusive interview, Amy opens up about her career as a singer, her family life, and her faith, all against the backdrop of a troubling past few years which have included recovering from open-heart surgery and a severe bike accident.  Through it all, she showcases what truly makes her an anomaly. In spite of her fame, she remains undoubtedly grounded to a life of quiet, peaceful fulfillment.  Show Notes  Resources:  Amy Grant's Website  Similar Episodes:  Truth-telling, Anger, and Race: Vince Gill  “Does This Make My Butt Look Big?”: Ashley Cleveland  Fighting Dragons and Singing at Loss: Drew Holcomb  Actor and Activist: Martin Sheen  Transcript  Want more NSE? JOIN NSE+ Today! Our subscriber only community comes with bonus content, ad-free listening, and early access to tickets for our live shows.  Great Feeling Studios, the team behind No Small Endeavor and other award-winning podcasts, helps nonprofits and brands tell stories that inspire action. Start your podcast at helpmemakeapodcast.com.  Subscribe to episodes: Apple | Spotify | Amazon | Google | YouTubeFollow Us: Instagram | Twitter | Facebook | YouTubeFollow Lee: Instagram | TwitterJoin our Email List: nosmallendeavor.com  See Privacy Policy: Privacy Policy  Amazon Affiliate Disclosure: Tokens Media, LLC is a participant in the Amazon Services LLC Associates Program, an affiliate advertising program designed to provide a means for sites to earn advertising fees by advertising and linking to Amazon.com. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

This is our unabridged interview with Charles Marsh.  Has religion ever kept you from doing something that was actually good for you?  It did for Charles Marsh. As a boy growing up in the evangelical South, Charles was taught to distrust his own body, to fear his desires, and to treat suffering as a gift from God. So when debilitating panic attacks shattered his world as a young man, he thought that he should count these panic attacks as something he was supposed to feel “joy” about.  Charles is now the Commonwealth Professor of Religious Studies at the University of Virginia. Find out how he navigated shedding the taboos of his evangelical upbringing as he sits down with Lee to discuss his memoir, Evangelical Anxiety.  Show Notes  Resources:  "Evangelical Anxiety: A Memoir" by Charles Marsh  "God’s Long Summer: Stories of Faith and Civil Rights" by Charles Marsh  Similar Episodes:  What Hath Christianity to do with Psychology? Mark McMinn  Is Conservative Christianity Anti-Intellectual?: Molly Worthen  Mike Cosper: A Critique of American Christianity  Transcript  Want more NSE? JOIN NSE+ Today! Our subscriber only community comes with bonus content, ad-free listening, and early access to tickets for our live shows.  Great Feeling Studios, the team behind No Small Endeavor and other award-winning podcasts, helps nonprofits and brands tell stories that inspire action. Start your podcast at helpmemakeapodcast.com.  Subscribe to episodes: Apple | Spotify | Amazon | Google | YouTubeFollow Us: Instagram | Twitter | Facebook | YouTubeFollow Lee: Instagram | TwitterJoin our Email List: nosmallendeavor.com  See Privacy Policy: Privacy Policy  Amazon Affiliate Disclosure: Tokens Media, LLC is a participant in the Amazon Services LLC Associates Program, an affiliate advertising program designed to provide a means for sites to earn advertising fees by advertising and linking to Amazon.com. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Has religion ever kept you from doing something that was actually good for you?  It did for Charles Marsh. As a boy growing up in the evangelical South, Charles was taught to distrust his own body, to fear his desires, and to treat suffering as a gift from God. So when debilitating panic attacks shattered his world as a young man, he thought that he should count these panic attacks as something he was supposed to feel “joy” about.  Charles is now the Commonwealth Professor of Religious Studies at the University of Virginia. Find out how he navigated shedding the taboos of his evangelical upbringing as he sits down with Lee to discuss his memoir, Evangelical Anxiety.  Show Notes  Resources:  "Evangelical Anxiety: A Memoir" by Charles Marsh  "God’s Long Summer: Stories of Faith and Civil Rights" by Charles Marsh  Similar Episodes:  What Hath Christianity to do with Psychology? Mark McMinn  Is Conservative Christianity Anti-Intellectual?: Molly Worthen  Mike Cosper: A Critique of American Christianity  Transcript  Want more NSE? JOIN NSE+ Today! Our subscriber only community comes with bonus content, ad-free listening, and early access to tickets for our live shows.  Great Feeling Studios, the team behind No Small Endeavor and other award-winning podcasts, helps nonprofits and brands tell stories that inspire action. Start your podcast at helpmemakeapodcast.com.  Subscribe to episodes: Apple | Spotify | Amazon | Google | YouTubeFollow Us: Instagram | Twitter | Facebook | YouTubeFollow Lee: Instagram | TwitterJoin our Email List: nosmallendeavor.com  See Privacy Policy: Privacy Policy  Amazon Affiliate Disclosure: Tokens Media, LLC is a participant in the Amazon Services LLC Associates Program, an affiliate advertising program designed to provide a means for sites to earn advertising fees by advertising and linking to Amazon.com. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

This is our unabridged interview with Holy Post.  Can you do insider critique with a sense of humor?  You might know Phil Vischer as the creator of the beloved children’s show VeggieTales, or Skye Jethani for his work as a pastor, speaker, and author. Both of them are long-time public Christian voices.  These days, though, they find themselves hosting the Holy Post podcast, doing the hard work of insider critique of a Christian subculture that, in recent years, has boiled over with white nationalism, Trumpism, and many forms of injustice. In this episode, they discuss how they try to do their work with intelligence, care, and humor.  Show Notes  Resources:  The Holy Post  “What If Jesus Was Serious about Justice?” by Skye Jethani  Francis Collins on Stephen Colbert  Similar Episodes:  Russell Moore and David French: How Should Christians Do Politics?  David French: Conservatism Without Trumpism  Francis Collins: The Road to Wisdom in an Age of Distrust  Transcript  Want more NSE? JOIN NSE+ Today! Our subscriber only community comes with bonus content, ad-free listening, and early access to tickets for our live shows.  Great Feeling Studios, the team behind No Small Endeavor and other award-winning podcasts, helps nonprofits and brands tell stories that inspire action. Start your podcast at helpmemakeapodcast.com.  Subscribe to episodes: Apple | Spotify | Amazon | Google | YouTubeFollow Us: Instagram | Twitter | Facebook | YouTubeFollow Lee: Instagram | TwitterJoin our Email List: nosmallendeavor.com  See Privacy Policy: Privacy Policy  Amazon Affiliate Disclosure: Tokens Media, LLC is a participant in the Amazon Services LLC Associates Program, an affiliate advertising program designed to provide a means for sites to earn advertising fees by advertising and linking to Amazon.com. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Can you do insider critique with a sense of humor?  You might know Phil Vischer as the creator of the beloved children’s show VeggieTales, or Skye Jethani for his work as a pastor, speaker, and author. Both of them are long-time public Christian voices.  These days, though, they find themselves hosting the Holy Post podcast, doing the hard work of insider critique of a Christian subculture that, in recent years, has boiled over with white nationalism, Trumpism, and many forms of injustice. In this episode, they discuss how they try to do their work with intelligence, care, and humor.  Show Notes  Resources:  The Holy Post  “What If Jesus Was Serious about Justice?” by Skye Jethani  Francis Collins on Stephen Colbert  Similar Episodes:  Russell Moore and David French: How Should Christians Do Politics?  David French: Conservatism Without Trumpism  Francis Collins: The Road to Wisdom in an Age of Distrust  Transcript  Want more NSE? JOIN NSE+ Today! Our subscriber only community comes with bonus content, ad-free listening, and early access to tickets for our live shows.  Great Feeling Studios, the team behind No Small Endeavor and other award-winning podcasts, helps nonprofits and brands tell stories that inspire action. Start your podcast at helpmemakeapodcast.com.  Subscribe to episodes: Apple | Spotify | Amazon | Google | YouTubeFollow Us: Instagram | Twitter | Facebook | YouTubeFollow Lee: Instagram | TwitterJoin our Email List: nosmallendeavor.com  See Privacy Policy: Privacy Policy  Amazon Affiliate Disclosure: Tokens Media, LLC is a participant in the Amazon Services LLC Associates Program, an affiliate advertising program designed to provide a means for sites to earn advertising fees by advertising and linking to Amazon.com. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

This is our unabridged interview with Freddie O'Connell.  “If we want to thrive across the board, then there has to be an accounting for the fact that you may have things that befall you in your life that you have no control over.”  In this episode of No Small Endeavor, Lee C. Camp sits down with Nashville Mayor Freddie O’Connell for a conversation about moral leadership, political realism, and the promise of community.   Growing up in Nashville, Freddie O’Connell was eager to leave for Brown University. But after his career in tech was interrupted by the dot com collapse, a “catastrophic transmission failure” changed the course of his life forever. When O’Connell returned to Nashville, he began riding the bus in his hometown, and discovered how inaccessible the city was for a large swath of the population. He soon became actively involved with the Metro Nashville Transit Authority, and his career in civic engagement began.  Show Notes  Resources:  Privilege Walk   “To Love A City” by Rev. Bill Barnes  Room At The Inn Nonprofit  “Kingdom of The Poor” by Charles Strobel  Similar Episodes:  Charlie Strobel  Bill Haslam  Justin Jones  Transcript  Want more NSE? Join NSE+ Today! Our subscriber only community with bonus episodes designed specifically to help you live a good life, ad-free listening, and early access to tickets to our live shows.  Great Feeling Studios, the team behind No Small Endeavor and other award-winning podcasts, helps nonprofits and brands tell stories that inspire action. If your organization has a message that deserves to be heard, start your podcast at helpmemakeapodcast.com.  Subscribe to episodes: Apple | Spotify | Amazon | Google | YouTubeFollow Us: Instagram | Twitter | Facebook | YouTubeFollow Lee: Instagram | TwitterJoin our Email List: nosmallendeavor.com  See Privacy Policy: Privacy Policy  Amazon Affiliate Disclosure: Tokens Media, LLC is a participant in the Amazon Services LLC Associates Program, an affiliate advertising program designed to provide a means for sites to earn advertising fees by advertising and linking to Amazon.com. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

“If we want to thrive across the board, then there has to be an accounting for the fact that you may have things that befall you in your life that you have no control over.”  In this episode of No Small Endeavor, Lee C. Camp sits down with Nashville Mayor Freddie O’Connell for a conversation about moral leadership, political realism, and the promise of community.   Growing up in Nashville, Freddie O’Connell was eager to leave for Brown University. But after his career in tech was interrupted by the dot com collapse, a “catastrophic transmission failure” changed the course of his life forever. When O’Connell returned to Nashville, he began riding the bus in his hometown, and discovered how fundamentally inaccessible the city was for a large swath of the population. He soon became actively involved with the Metro Nashville Transit Authority, and his career in civic engagement began.  Show Notes  Resources:  Privilege Walk   “To Love A City” by Rev. Bill Barnes  Room At The Inn Nonprofit  “Kingdom of The Poor” by Charles Strobel  Similar Episodes:  Charlie Strobel  Bill Haslam  Justin Jones  Transcript  Want more NSE? Join NSE+ Today! Our subscriber only community with bonus episodes designed specifically to help you live a good life, ad-free listening, and early access to tickets to our live shows.  Great Feeling Studios, the team behind No Small Endeavor and other award-winning podcasts, helps nonprofits and brands tell stories that inspire action. If your organization has a message that deserves to be heard, start your podcast at helpmemakeapodcast.com.  Subscribe to episodes: Apple | Spotify | Amazon | Google | YouTubeFollow Us: Instagram | Twitter | Facebook | YouTubeFollow Lee: Instagram | TwitterJoin our Email List: nosmallendeavor.com  See Privacy Policy: Privacy Policy  Amazon Affiliate Disclosure: Tokens Media, LLC is a participant in the Amazon Services LLC Associates Program, an affiliate advertising program designed to provide a means for sites to earn advertising fees by advertising and linking to Amazon.com. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

This is our unabridged interview with Michele Norris.  “I wanted to create a vehicle that allowed people to talk about this allegedly toxic topic on their own terms.”- Michele Norris.   Could you describe your experience of race in America in just 6 words? That’s the very thing Journalist Michele Norris asked 200 strangers to do back in 2015, when she printed a stack of postcards with these simple directions: Race, your story, 6 words, please send. What began as an exercise to spark conversation became The Race Card Project, a growing online archive comprising over 750,000 answers from Americans of every ethnicity and corner of the country. The responses are at once tender and confronting, and they hold a mirror up to a part of American life that is often felt, but rarely openly discussed.  Show Notes  Resources:  "The Grace of Silence"  "Our Hidden Conversations"  The Race Card Project  NPR's The Race Card Project: Six Word Essays  Your Mamma’s Kitchen Podcast  Similar Episodes:  Musa al-Gharbi  John Blake  Eugene Cho and Karen Korematsu  Transcript  Want more NSE? Join NSE+ Today! Our subscriber only community with bonus episodes designed specifically to help you live a good life, ad-free listening, and early access to tickets to our live shows.  Great Feeling Studios, the team behind No Small Endeavor and other award-winning podcasts, helps nonprofits and brands tell stories that inspire action. If your organization has a message that deserves to be heard, start your podcast at helpmemakeapodcast.com.  Subscribe to episodes: Apple | Spotify | Amazon | Google | YouTubeFollow Us: Instagram | Twitter | Facebook | YouTubeFollow Lee: Instagram | TwitterJoin our Email List: nosmallendeavor.com  See Privacy Policy: Privacy Policy  Amazon Affiliate Disclosure: Tokens Media, LLC is a participant in the Amazon Services LLC Associates Program, an affiliate advertising program designed to provide a means for sites to earn advertising fees by advertising and linking to Amazon.com. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

“I wanted to create a vehicle that allowed people to talk about this allegedly toxic topic on their own terms.”- Michele Norris.   Could you describe your experience of race in America in just 6 words? That’s the very thing Journalist Michele Norris asked 200 strangers to do back in 2015, when she printed a stack of postcards with these simple directions: Race, your story, 6 words, please send. What began as an exercise to spark conversation became The Race Card Project, a growing online archive comprising over 750,000 answers from Americans of every ethnicity and corner of the country. The responses are at once tender and confronting, and they hold a mirror up to a part of American life that is often felt, but rarely openly discussed.  Show Notes  Resources:  "The Grace of Silence: A Family Memoir"  "Our Hidden Conversations: What Americans Really Think About Race and Identity"  The Race Card Project  NPR's The Race Card Project: Six Word Essays  Your Mamma’s Kitchen Podcast  Similar Episodes:  Musa al-Gharbi  John Blake  Eugene Cho and Karen Korematsu  Transcript  Want more NSE? Join NSE+ Today! Our subscriber only community with bonus episodes designed specifically to help you live a good life, ad-free listening, and early access to tickets to our live shows.  Great Feeling Studios, the team behind No Small Endeavor and other award-winning podcasts, helps nonprofits and brands tell stories that inspire action. If your organization has a message that deserves to be heard, start your podcast at helpmemakeapodcast.com.  Subscribe to episodes: Apple | Spotify | Amazon | Google | YouTubeFollow Us: Instagram | Twitter | Facebook | YouTubeFollow Lee: Instagram | TwitterJoin our Email List: nosmallendeavor.com  See Privacy Policy: Privacy Policy  Amazon Affiliate Disclosure: Tokens Media, LLC is a participant in the Amazon Services LLC Associates Program, an affiliate advertising program designed to provide a means for sites to earn advertising fees by advertising and linking to Amazon.com. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

This is our unabridged interview with Kristin Neff.  Is high self-esteem crucial to human flourishing, or, rather, a hindrance?  “The biggest problem with self-esteem is that it tends to be contingent,” says Kristin Neff. “We only feel good about ourselves when we succeed.” Far too often, high self-esteem breeds narcissism, bullying, and prejudice.  Kristin is a professor of Educational Psychology at the University of Texas at Austin. She’s also a prominent expert on the topic of self-compassion, which her research has found to be much more effective than self-esteem in helping people flourish. In this episode, she shares what makes self-compassion different from self-esteem, how to cultivate it, and how it can help us to flourish amidst stress, suffering, and everyday life. We also hear briefly from psychiatrist and author Curt Thompson illuminating the negative neurobiological effects of shame while Kristen explains how self compassion can remedy these effects.  Show Notes  Resources:  Self-Compassion by Kristin Neff  Fierce Self-Compassion by Kristin Neff  Self-Compassion.org  Why Self-Compassion Works Better than Self-Esteem  Similar episodes:  Tara Brach  Judith Moskowitz  Alfie Kohn  Curt Thompson  Want more NSE? Join NSE+ Today! Our subscriber only community with bonus episodes designed specifically to help you live a good life, ad-free listening, and early access to tickets to our live shows.  Great Feeling Studios, the team behind No Small Endeavor and other award-winning podcasts, helps nonprofits and brands tell stories that inspire action. If your organization has a message that deserves to be heard, start your podcast at helpmemakeapodcast.com.  Subscribe to episodes: Apple | Spotify | Amazon | Google | YouTubeFollow Us: Instagram | Twitter | Facebook | YouTubeFollow Lee: Instagram | TwitterJoin our Email List: nosmallendeavor.com  See Privacy Policy: Privacy Policy  Amazon Affiliate Disclosure: Tokens Media, LLC is a participant in the Amazon Services LLC Associates Program, an affiliate advertising program designed to provide a means for sites to earn advertising fees by advertising and linking to Amazon.com. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Today, we are sharing an episode of “What It’s Like to Be…” from author Dan Heath.   On the podcast, Dan explores the world of work, one profession at a time, and interviews people who love what they do. He finds out: What does a couples therapist think when a friend asks for relationship advice? Is a Secret Service Agent supposed to pretend like they’re not there when they’re around the president? What are the 3 clocks that govern the life of a long-haul truck driver? If you’ve ever met someone whose work you were curious about, and you had 100 nosy questions but were too polite to ask… this is the show for you. In this preview, Dan talks to Dr. Hindatu Mohammed, a veterinarian from Austin. You’ll hear about how she calms scared cats with pheromone sprays. How she helps clients make hard health care decisions about their pets. You’ll also learn what breed of dog, when having its nails clipped, acts like it's being murdered! You may also pick up a word that you may end up wishing you didn’t know: “neuticles.”   You can listen to more episodes of What It’s Like to Be at https://link.mgln.ai/nsedanheath.  Want more NSE? Join NSE+ Today! Our subscriber only community with bonus episodes designed specifically to help you live a good life, ad-free listening, and early access to tickets to our live shows.  Great Feeling Studios, the team behind No Small Endeavor and other award-winning podcasts, helps nonprofits and brands tell stories that inspire action. If your organization has a message that deserves to be heard, start your podcast at helpmemakeapodcast.com.  Subscribe to episodes: Apple | Spotify | Amazon | Google | YouTubeFollow Us: Instagram | Twitter | Facebook | YouTubeFollow Lee: Instagram | TwitterJoin our Email List: nosmallendeavor.com  See Privacy Policy: Privacy Policy  Amazon Affiliate Disclosure: Tokens Media, LLC is a participant in the Amazon Services LLC Associates Program, an affiliate advertising program designed to provide a means for sites to earn advertising fees by advertising and linking to Amazon.com. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

In stressful times, what if the key to mental and emotional well-being was not a mystery, but a set of daily, accessible practices that you could start today? In this special compilation episode we’ve curated guidance from some of the world’s leading voices in the science of wellbeing—including Dacher Keltner, Kristin Neff, Robert Waldinger, Marc Schulz, Judith Moskowitz, Marisa Franco, Amishi Jha, and Oliver Burkeman—to explore how awe, self-compassion, relationships and mindfulness shape our lives and minds.  You’ll learn how experiences of awe can dramatically improve immune health and reduce anxiety; why self-compassion trumps self-esteem for lasting mental strength; how healthy relationships are not only the greatest predictor of happiness but even protect against physical illness; and how intentional mindfulness combats stress and boosts attention.  Through science and lived experience, this episode offers a toolkit for building a more connected, reflective, and flourishing life of greater mental well-being.  Show Notes  Similar Episodes:  Kristin Neff  Curt Thompson  Meghan Sullivan  Heather Holleman  Kelly Corrigan  Transcript  Want more NSE? Join NSE+ Today! Our subscriber only community with bonus episodes designed specifically to help you live a good life, ad-free listening, and early access to tickets to our live shows.  Great Feeling Studios, the team behind No Small Endeavor and other award-winning podcasts, helps nonprofits and brands tell stories that inspire action. If your organization has a message that deserves to be heard, start your podcast at helpmemakeapodcast.com.  Subscribe to episodes: Apple | Spotify | Amazon | Google | YouTubeFollow Us: Instagram | Twitter | Facebook | YouTubeFollow Lee: Instagram | TwitterJoin our Email List: nosmallendeavor.com  See Privacy Policy: Privacy Policy  Amazon Affiliate Disclosure: Tokens Media, LLC is a participant in the Amazon Services LLC Associates Program, an affiliate advertising program designed to provide a means for sites to earn advertising fees by advertising and linking to Amazon.com. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

This is our unabridged interview with Sissy Goff.  We are living in a rapidly changing world. Whether politics, technology, or climate - the future that our children face will likely look very different than previous generations. Given the modern challenges of smartphones, social media, and rising mental health issues, should our parenting also be evolving?  Sissy Goff is the author of 13 books full of practical parenting advice for just such questions. She's been counseling for over 30 years, and her latest project focuses on building resilience in children. In this episode Sissy shares practical strategies every parent can use to help their children flourish, and advice for adults navigating the digital age.  Show Notes  Resources:  Sissy’s Podcast  Sissy's Books  “Breath” by James Nestor  “The Anxious Generation” by Jonathan Haidt  “How to Find Meaning After Loss” by David Kessler  “The Road Back to You” by Suzanne Stabile  “Quiet Power” by Susan Cain  Similar Episodes:  Robert Waldinger and Marc Schulz  Angela Duckworth   Alfie Kohn  Transcript  Want more NSE? Join NSE+ Today! Our subscriber only community with bonus episodes designed specifically to help you live a good life, ad-free listening, and early access to tickets to our live shows.  Great Feeling Studios, the team behind No Small Endeavor and other award-winning podcasts, helps nonprofits and brands tell stories that inspire action. If your organization has a message that deserves to be heard, start your podcast at helpmemakeapodcast.com.  Subscribe to episodes: Apple | Spotify | Amazon | Google | YouTubeFollow Us: Instagram | Twitter | Facebook | YouTubeFollow Lee: Instagram | TwitterJoin our Email List: nosmallendeavor.com  See Privacy Policy: Privacy Policy  Amazon Affiliate Disclosure: Tokens Media, LLC is a participant in the Amazon Services LLC Associates Program, an affiliate advertising program designed to provide a means for sites to earn advertising fees by advertising and linking to Amazon.com. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

There is no doubt that we are living in a rapidly changing world. Whether the topic is politics, technology, or climate - the future that our children face will likely look very different than previous generations. Given the modern challenges of smartphones, social media, and rising mental health issues, should our parenting also be evolving?  Sissy Goff is the author of 13 books full of practical parenting advice for just such questions. She's been counseling kids and families for over 30 years, and her latest project focuses on building resilience in children. In this episode Sissy shares practical strategies every parent can use to help their children flourish, as well as advice for adults navigating the digital age.  Show Notes  Resources:  Sissy’s Podcast  Sissy's Books  “Breath” by James Nestor  “The Anxious Generation” by Jonathan Haidt  “How to Find Meaning After Loss” by David Kessler  “The Road Back to You” by Suzanne Stabile  “Quiet Power” by Susan Cain  Similar Episodes:  Robert Waldinger and Marc Schulz  Angela Duckworth   Alfie Kohn  Transcript  Want more NSE? Join NSE+ Today! Our subscriber only community with bonus episodes designed specifically to help you live a good life, ad-free listening, and early access to tickets to our live shows.  Great Feeling Studios, the team behind No Small Endeavor and other award-winning podcasts, helps nonprofits and brands tell stories that inspire action. If your organization has a message that deserves to be heard, start your podcast at helpmemakeapodcast.com.  Subscribe to episodes: Apple | Spotify | Amazon | Google | YouTubeFollow Us: Instagram | Twitter | Facebook | YouTubeFollow Lee: Instagram | TwitterJoin our Email List: nosmallendeavor.com  See Privacy Policy: Privacy Policy  Amazon Affiliate Disclosure: Tokens Media, LLC is a participant in the Amazon Services LLC Associates Program, an affiliate advertising program designed to provide a means for sites to earn advertising fees by advertising and linking to Amazon.com. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

This is our unabridged interview with Sheryl Crow.  After a stellar performance on No Small Endeavor Live, 9 time Grammy Winner Sheryl Crow sits down with Lee to discuss the tension between ambition and creativity, the profound realization that accompanied her breast cancer diagnosis, and the impact of mindfulness and meditation on her daily life. Crow also tells the story behind her posthumous duet with Johnny Cash, the social advocacy that has defined her career, and how embracing an unconventional life led her to motherhood. All that, plus Sheryl's musical performance at No Small Endeavor: Live! Join us as we explore the challenges and triumphs of over 3 decades in the public eye.  Show Notes  Resources:  The Sheryl Documentary  "Forever"   "Weather Channel"  "Redemption Day"  "Love Is A Good Thing"  Sharon Salzberg & Faith  Similar Episodes:  Russ Taff: Music, Addiction and Redemption  Amy Grant: Fame, Vulnerability, and Staying Grounded  Tara Brach: Radical Acceptance  Transcript  Want more NSE? Join NSE+ Today! Our subscriber only community with bonus episodes designed specifically to help you live a good life, ad-free listening, and early access to tickets to our live shows.  Great Feeling Studios, the team behind No Small Endeavor and other award-winning podcasts, helps nonprofits and brands tell stories that inspire action. If your organization has a message that deserves to be heard, start your podcast at helpmemakeapodcast.com.  Subscribe to episodes: Apple | Spotify | Amazon | Google | YouTubeFollow Us: Instagram | Twitter | Facebook | YouTubeFollow Lee: Instagram | TwitterJoin our Email List: nosmallendeavor.com  See Privacy Policy: Privacy Policy  Amazon Affiliate Disclosure: Tokens Media, LLC is a participant in the Amazon Services LLC Associates Program, an affiliate advertising program designed to provide a means for sites to earn advertising fees by advertising and linking to Amazon.com. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

After a stellar performance on No Small Endeavor Live, 9 time Grammy Winner Sheryl Crow sits down with Lee to discuss the tension between ambition and creativity, the profound realization that accompanied her breast cancer diagnosis, and the impact of mindfulness and meditation on her daily life. Crow also tells the story behind her posthumous duet with Johnny Cash, the social advocacy that has defined her career, and how embracing an unconventional life led her to motherhood. All that, plus Sheryl's musical performance at No Small Endeavor: Live! Join us as we explore the challenges and triumphs of over 3 decades in the public eye.  Show Notes  Resources:  The Sheryl Documentary  "Forever"   "Weather Channel"  "Redemption Day"  "Love Is A Good Thing"  Sharon Salzberg & Faith  Similar Episodes:  Russ Taff: Music, Addiction and Redemption  Amy Grant: Fame, Vulnerability, and Staying Grounded  Tara Brach: Radical Acceptance  Transcription Link  Want more NSE? Join NSE+ Today! Our subscriber only community with bonus episodes designed specifically to help you live a good life, ad-free listening, and early access to tickets to our live shows.  Great Feeling Studios, the team behind No Small Endeavor and other award-winning podcasts, helps nonprofits and brands tell stories that inspire action. If your organization has a message that deserves to be heard, start your podcast at helpmemakeapodcast.com.  Subscribe to episodes: Apple | Spotify | Amazon | Google | YouTubeFollow Us: Instagram | Twitter | Facebook | YouTubeFollow Lee: Instagram | TwitterJoin our Email List: nosmallendeavor.com  See Privacy Policy: Privacy Policy  Amazon Affiliate Disclosure: Tokens Media, LLC is a participant in the Amazon Services LLC Associates Program, an affiliate advertising program designed to provide a means for sites to earn advertising fees by advertising and linking to Amazon.com. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

This is our unabridged interview with Mike Cosper.  How do you raise criticisms about a group of which you consider yourself to be a member?  Mike Cosper hosted The Rise and Fall of Mars Hill, a podcast critiquing a lot of the tendencies of American Christianity. “ People are looking at Christianity and saying, is it true?” he says. “I think where I landed after my own negative experiences was asking, is it good?”  In this episode, we cover some of the key issues such a question has raised for Mike - like celebrity culture and toxic masculinity - as well as what it’s like to do the work of insider critique in such a public role.  Show Notes  Resources:  The Rise and Fall of Mars Hill  Mike’s books  Similar NSE episodes: Nancy French: Ghosted by Her Own Tribe Katelyn Beaty: How Celebrity Culture is Hurting the Church Kristin Du Mez: Jesus and John Wayne  PDF of Lee's Interview Notes  Transcript of Abridged Episode  Want more NSE? JOIN NSE+ Today! Our subscriber only community with bonus episodes designed specifically to help you live a good life, ad-free listening, and discounts on live shows  Great Feeling Studios, the team behind No Small Endeavor and other award-winning podcasts, helps nonprofits and brands tell stories that inspire action. If your organization has a message that deserves to be heard, start your podcast at helpmemakeapodcast.com.  Subscribe to episodes: Apple | Spotify | Amazon | Google | YouTubeFollow Us: Instagram | Twitter | Facebook | YouTubeFollow Lee: Instagram | TwitterJoin our Email List: nosmallendeavor.com  See Privacy Policy: Privacy Policy  Amazon Affiliate Disclosure: Tokens Media, LLC is a participant in the Amazon Services LLC Associates Program, an affiliate advertising program designed to provide a means for sites to earn advertising fees by advertising and linking to Amazon.com. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

How do you raise criticisms about a group of which you consider yourself to be a member?  Mike Cosper hosted The Rise and Fall of Mars Hill, a podcast critiquing a lot of the tendencies of American Christianity. “ People are looking at Christianity and saying, is it true?” he says. “I think where I landed after my own negative experiences was asking, is it good?”  In this episode, we cover some of the key issues such a question has raised for Mike - like celebrity culture and toxic masculinity - as well as what it’s like to do the work of insider critique in such a public role.  Show Notes  Resources:  The Rise and Fall of Mars Hill  Mike’s books  Similar NSE episodes:  Nancy French: Ghosted by Her Own Tribe  Katelyn Beaty: How Celebrity Culture is Hurting the Church  Kristin Du Mez: Jesus and John Wayne  PDF of Lee's Interview Notes  Transcription Link  Want more NSE? JOIN NSE+ Today! Our subscriber only community with bonus episodes designed specifically to help you live a good life, ad-free listening, and discounts on live shows  Great Feeling Studios, the team behind No Small Endeavor and other award-winning podcasts, helps nonprofits and brands tell stories that inspire action. If your organization has a message that deserves to be heard, start your podcast at helpmemakeapodcast.com.  Subscribe to episodes: Apple | Spotify | Amazon | Google | YouTubeFollow Us: Instagram | Twitter | Facebook | YouTubeFollow Lee: Instagram | TwitterJoin our Email List: nosmallendeavor.com  See Privacy Policy: Privacy Policy  Amazon Affiliate Disclosure: Tokens Media, LLC is a participant in the Amazon Services LLC Associates Program, an affiliate advertising program designed to provide a means for sites to earn advertising fees by advertising and linking to Amazon.com. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

This is our unabridged interview with Rainn Wilson. Bears, beets, Battlestar Galactica… and spirituality? In a time of cultural division and political polarization, what role can spirituality play in healing our fractured world? Rainn Wilson—best known as Dwight Schrute from The Office—isn't just a comedy icon. He’s also become an unlikely voice for spiritual reflection in Hollywood, where such conversations are often taboo. In this candid and thought-provoking interview, Wilson opens up about why he believes our divided world desperately needs a renewed spiritual vocabulary—and what that might look like beyond traditional religion.  Show Notes  Resources:  “Soul Boom” by Rainn Wilson  Laughing Matters Documentary  Similar NSE episodes:  Actor and Activist: Martin Sheen  The Road to Character: David Brooks  PDF of Lee's Interview Notes  Transcript of Abridged Episode  Want more NSE? JOIN NSE+ Today! Our subscriber only community with bonus episodes designed specifically to help you live a good life, ad-free listening, and discounts on live shows  Great Feeling Studios, the team behind No Small Endeavor and other award-winning podcasts, helps nonprofits and brands tell stories that inspire action. If your organization has a message that deserves to be heard, start your podcast at helpmemakeapodcast.com.  Subscribe to episodes: Apple | Spotify | Amazon | Google | YouTubeFollow Us: Instagram | Twitter | Facebook | YouTubeFollow Lee: Instagram | TwitterJoin our Email List: nosmallendeavor.com  See Privacy Policy: Privacy Policy  Amazon Affiliate Disclosure: Tokens Media, LLC is a participant in the Amazon Services LLC Associates Program, an affiliate advertising program designed to provide a means for sites to earn advertising fees by advertising and linking to Amazon.com. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Bears, beets, Battlestar Galactica… and spirituality? In a time of cultural division and political polarization, what role can spirituality play in healing our fractured world? Rainn Wilson—best known as Dwight Schrute from The Office—isn't just a comedy icon. He’s also become an unlikely voice for spiritual reflection in Hollywood, where such conversations are often taboo. In this candid and thought-provoking interview, Wilson opens up about why he believes our divided world desperately needs a renewed spiritual vocabulary—and what that might look like beyond traditional religion.  Show Notes  Resources:  “Soul Boom” by Rainn Wilson  Laughing Matters Documentary  Similar NSE episodes:  Actor and Activist: Martin Sheen  The Road to Character: David Brooks  PDF of Lee's Interview Notes  Transcription Link  Want more NSE? JOIN NSE+ Today! Our subscriber only community with bonus episodes designed specifically to help you live a good life, ad-free listening, and discounts on live shows  Great Feeling Studios, the team behind No Small Endeavor and other award-winning podcasts, helps nonprofits and brands tell stories that inspire action. If your organization has a message that deserves to be heard, start your podcast at helpmemakeapodcast.com.  Subscribe to episodes: Apple | Spotify | Amazon | Google | YouTubeFollow Us: Instagram | Twitter | Facebook | YouTubeFollow Lee: Instagram | TwitterJoin our Email List: nosmallendeavor.com  See Privacy Policy: Privacy Policy  Amazon Affiliate Disclosure: Tokens Media, LLC is a participant in the Amazon Services LLC Associates Program, an affiliate advertising program designed to provide a means for sites to earn advertising fees by advertising and linking to Amazon.com. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

This is our unabridged interview with Marisa Franco.  How important is it to have friends?  Loneliness has reached epidemic levels in many countries, with research suggesting that it’s harder than ever for us to make and keep friends. And according to Marisa Franco, the issue isn’t trivial. “ Loneliness is as toxic for our bodies as smoking 15 cigarettes a day,” she says. “We are fundamentally social creatures… it's okay that you really want friends.”  In this episode, she explains why friendship is a crucial aspect of a flourishing life, and gives helpful advice for those looking to make and keep friends.  Show Notes  Resources:  “Platonic” by Marisa Franco  The US Surgeon General’s Advisory on the Healing Effects of Social Connection and Community  Similar NSE episodes:  Alexandra Solomon: How to Have Flourishing Relationships  Kristin Neff: The Power of Self-Compassion  Robert Waldinger and Marc Schulz: The Good Life - Lessons from the World’s Longest Study on Happiness  Kelly Corrigan: How Vulnerability Leads to Connection  PDF of Lee's Interview Notes  Transcript  Want more NSE? JOIN NSE+ Today! Our subscriber only community with bonus episodes designed specifically to help you live a good life, ad-free listening, and discounts on live shows  Great Feeling Studios, the team behind No Small Endeavor and other award-winning podcasts, helps nonprofits and brands tell stories that inspire action. If your organization has a message that deserves to be heard, start your podcast at helpmemakeapodcast.com.  Subscribe to episodes: Apple | Spotify | Amazon | Google | YouTubeFollow Us: Instagram | Twitter | Facebook | YouTubeFollow Lee: Instagram | TwitterJoin our Email List: nosmallendeavor.com  See Privacy Policy: Privacy Policy  Amazon Affiliate Disclosure: Tokens Media, LLC is a participant in the Amazon Services LLC Associates Program, an affiliate advertising program designed to provide a means for sites to earn advertising fees by advertising and linking to Amazon.com. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

How important is it to have friends?  Loneliness has reached epidemic levels in many countries, with research suggesting that it’s harder than ever for us to make and keep friends. And according to Marisa Franco, the issue isn’t trivial. “ Loneliness is as toxic for our bodies as smoking 15 cigarettes a day,” she says. “We are fundamentally social creatures… it's okay that you really want friends.”  In this episode, she explains why friendship is a crucial aspect of a flourishing life, and gives helpful advice for those looking to make and keep friends.  Show Notes  Resources:  “Platonic” by Marisa Franco  The US Surgeon General’s Advisory on the Healing Effects of Social Connection and Community  Similar NSE episodes:  Alexandra Solomon: How to Have Flourishing Relationships  Kristin Neff: The Power of Self-Compassion  Robert Waldinger and Marc Schulz: The Good Life - Lessons from the World’s Longest Study on Happiness  Kelly Corrigan: How Vulnerability Leads to Connection  PDF of Lee's Interview Notes  Transcription Link  Want more NSE? JOIN NSE+ Today! Our subscriber only community with bonus episodes designed specifically to help you live a good life, ad-free listening, and discounts on live shows  Great Feeling Studios, the team behind No Small Endeavor and other award-winning podcasts, helps nonprofits and brands tell stories that inspire action. If your organization has a message that deserves to be heard, start your podcast at helpmemakeapodcast.com.  Subscribe to episodes: Apple | Spotify | Amazon | Google | YouTubeFollow Us: Instagram | Twitter | Facebook | YouTubeFollow Lee: Instagram | TwitterJoin our Email List: nosmallendeavor.com  See Privacy Policy: Privacy Policy  Amazon Affiliate Disclosure: Tokens Media, LLC is a participant in the Amazon Services LLC Associates Program, an affiliate advertising program designed to provide a means for sites to earn advertising fees by advertising and linking to Amazon.com. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

This is our unabridged interview with Drew Holcomb.  ”The scarcity of life is what gives it value,” says singer-songwriter Drew Holcomb. “If we all lived forever, there would be no sort of rush to love and rush to justice and rush to mercy and rush to know people.”  Drew’s new album, Memory Bank, co-created with his wife Ellie, is full of personal stories of love, resilience, mortality, and a strong but subtle social conscience. It was his father that inspired the title track on the album saying on their frequent family road trips that “ hope you guys don't expect to inherit anything. I put all my money in the memory bank.” Drew reflects on the impact this perspective has had on him, his art, and his faith.  Drew and Lee also share their excitement about going on tour together this spring, along with Malcolm Gladwell, for No Small Endeavor: Live. Show Notes  Resources:  Drew’s website  "The Last Sweet Mile" by Allen Levi    Similar NSE episodes:  Drew Holcomb: Fighting Dragons and Singing at Loss  Russ Taff: Music, Addiction, and Redemption  Clay Hobbs: The Wisdom of Numbering Your Days  PDF of Lee's Interview Notes  Transcript  Want more NSE? JOIN NSE+ Today! Our subscriber only community with bonus episodes designed specifically to help you live a good life, ad-free listening, and discounts on live shows  Great Feeling Studios, the team behind No Small Endeavor and other award-winning podcasts, helps nonprofits and brands tell stories that inspire action. If your organization has a message that deserves to be heard, start your podcast at helpmemakeapodcast.com.  Subscribe to episodes: Apple | Spotify | Amazon | Google | YouTubeFollow Us: Instagram | Twitter | Facebook | YouTubeFollow Lee: Instagram | TwitterJoin our Email List: nosmallendeavor.com  See Privacy Policy: Privacy Policy  Amazon Affiliate Disclosure: Tokens Media, LLC is a participant in the Amazon Services LLC Associates Program, an affiliate advertising program designed to provide a means for sites to earn advertising fees by advertising and linking to Amazon.com. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

”The scarcity of life is what gives it value,” says singer-songwriter Drew Holcomb. “If we all lived forever, there would be no sort of rush to love and rush to justice and rush to mercy and rush to know people.”  Drew’s new album, Memory Bank, co-created with his wife Ellie, is full of personal stories of love, resilience, mortality, and a strong but subtle social conscience. It was his father that inspired the title track on the album saying on their frequent family road trips that “ hope you guys don't expect to inherit anything. I put all my money in the memory bank.” Drew reflects on the impact this perspective has had on him, his art, and his faith.  Drew and Lee also share their excitement about going on tour together this spring, along with Malcolm Gladwell, for No Small Endeavor: Live.  Show Notes  Resources:  Drew’s website  "The Last Sweet Mile" by Allen Levi    Similar NSE episodes:  Drew Holcomb: Fighting Dragons and Singing at Loss  Russ Taff: Music, Addiction, and Redemption  Clay Hobbs: The Wisdom of Numbering Your Days  PDF of Lee's Interview Notes  Transcription Link  Want more NSE? JOIN NSE+ Today! Our subscriber only community with bonus episodes designed specifically to help you live a good life, ad-free listening, and discounts on live shows  Great Feeling Studios, the team behind No Small Endeavor and other award-winning podcasts, helps nonprofits and brands tell stories that inspire action. If your organization has a message that deserves to be heard, start your podcast at helpmemakeapodcast.com.  Subscribe to episodes: Apple | Spotify | Amazon | Google | YouTubeFollow Us: Instagram | Twitter | Facebook | YouTubeFollow Lee: Instagram | TwitterJoin our Email List: nosmallendeavor.com  See Privacy Policy: Privacy Policy  Amazon Affiliate Disclosure: Tokens Media, LLC is a participant in the Amazon Services LLC Associates Program, an affiliate advertising program designed to provide a means for sites to earn advertising fees by advertising and linking to Amazon.com. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

This is our unabridged interview with Jacques Pépin.  “Food is the great equalizer.”  This is the mantra that has fueled the career of Jacques Pépin, who is respected as one of the finest chefs in the world. It has led him to cook for presidents and in world-class restaurants, and inspired him to write over thirty books.  In this episode, he explains the role food plays in a flourishing life, describing how it breaks down barriers, builds community, and recalls us to ourselves, all while describing his own journey from a small French village to international culinary fame. Show Notes  Resources:  Jacques’s website  “The French Chef” SNL sketch  “La Technique” by Jacques Pépin    Similar NSE episodes:  Ben Cohen: Peace, Justice, Ice Cream  Malcolm Gladwell: Becoming Malcolm  Peter Harris and Jo Swinney: A Place at the Table  PDF of Lee's Interview Notes  Transcript of Abridged Episode   Want more NSE? JOIN NSE+ Today! Our subscriber only community with bonus episodes designed specifically to help you live a good life, ad-free listening, and discounts on live shows  Great Feeling Studios, the team behind No Small Endeavor and other award-winning podcasts, helps nonprofits and brands tell stories that inspire action. If your organization has a message that deserves to be heard, start your podcast at helpmemakeapodcast.com.  Subscribe to episodes: Apple | Spotify | Amazon | Google | YouTubeFollow Us: Instagram | Twitter | Facebook | YouTubeFollow Lee: Instagram | TwitterJoin our Email List: nosmallendeavor.com  See Privacy Policy: Privacy Policy  Amazon Affiliate Disclosure: Tokens Media, LLC is a participant in the Amazon Services LLC Associates Program, an affiliate advertising program designed to provide a means for sites to earn advertising fees by advertising and linking to Amazon.com. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

“Food is the great equalizer.”  This is the mantra that has fueled the career of Jacques Pépin, who is respected as one of the finest chefs in the world. It has led him to cook for presidents and in world-class restaurants, and inspired him to write over thirty books.  In this episode, he explains the role food plays in a flourishing life, describing how it breaks down barriers, builds community, and recalls us to ourselves, all while describing his own journey from a small French village to international culinary fame. Show Notes  Resources:  Jacques’s website  “The French Chef” SNL sketch  “La Technique” by Jacques Pépin    Similar NSE episodes:  Ben Cohen: Peace, Justice, Ice Cream  Malcolm Gladwell: Becoming Malcolm  Peter Harris and Jo Swinney: A Place at the Table  PDF of Lee's Interview Notes  Transcription Link  Want more NSE? JOIN NSE+ Today! Our subscriber only community with bonus episodes designed specifically to help you live a good life, ad-free listening, and discounts on live shows  Great Feeling Studios, the team behind No Small Endeavor and other award-winning podcasts, helps nonprofits and brands tell stories that inspire action. If your organization has a message that deserves to be heard, start your podcast at helpmemakeapodcast.com.  Subscribe to episodes: Apple | Spotify | Amazon | Google | YouTubeFollow Us: Instagram | Twitter | Facebook | YouTubeFollow Lee: Instagram | TwitterJoin our Email List: nosmallendeavor.com  See Privacy Policy: Privacy Policy  Amazon Affiliate Disclosure: Tokens Media, LLC is a participant in the Amazon Services LLC Associates Program, an affiliate advertising program designed to provide a means for sites to earn advertising fees by advertising and linking to Amazon.com. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

This is our unabridged interview with Francis Collins.  Francis Collins has led some of the most significant scientific initiatives of our time, including the Human Genome Project and the National Institutes of Health under three U.S. presidents. In his new book, The Road to Wisdom, Collins grapples with the erosion of public trust in science, the polarization of society, and the challenge of discerning truth in the modern age.  In this conversation, Collins shares insights from his experiences during the COVID-19 pandemic, his journey from atheism to Christian faith, and the importance of humility in the pursuit of knowledge. He reflects on his unlikely friendship with the late atheist Christopher Hitchens, the philosophical roots of truth skepticism, and the need for genuine dialogue across divides.  Join us as we explore how wisdom, truth, science, and faith intersect—and why curiosity and compassion might just be the antidote to our age of distrust.  Show Notes  Resources:  "The Road to Wisdom" by Francis Collins    Similar NSE episodes:  Quincy Byrdsong: Tuskegee, Healthcare, Justice  Jennifer Wiseman: How Science Produces Wonder  David Wilkinson: The (Not Really) War Between Science and Faith  Rachel Held Evans, Francis Collins, and Ed Larson: Faith, Science, Humility  PDF of Lee's Interview Notes  Transcript of Abridged Episode   Want more NSE? JOIN NSE+ Today! Our subscriber only community with bonus episodes designed specifically to help you live a good life, ad-free listening, and discounts on live shows  Great Feeling Studios, the team behind No Small Endeavor and other award-winning podcasts, helps nonprofits and brands tell stories that inspire action. If your organization has a message that deserves to be heard, start your podcast at helpmemakeapodcast.com.  Subscribe to episodes: Apple | Spotify | Amazon | Google | YouTubeFollow Us: Instagram | Twitter | Facebook | YouTubeFollow Lee: Instagram | TwitterJoin our Email List: nosmallendeavor.com  See Privacy Policy: Privacy Policy  Amazon Affiliate Disclosure: Tokens Media, LLC is a participant in the Amazon Services LLC Associates Program, an affiliate advertising program designed to provide a means for sites to earn advertising fees by advertising and linking to Amazon.com. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Francis Collins has led some of the most significant scientific initiatives of our time, including the Human Genome Project and the National Institutes of Health under three U.S. presidents. In his new book, The Road to Wisdom, Collins grapples with the erosion of public trust in science, the polarization of society, and the challenge of discerning truth in the modern age.  In this conversation, Collins shares insights from his experiences during the COVID-19 pandemic, his journey from atheism to Christian faith, and the importance of humility in the pursuit of knowledge. He reflects on his unlikely friendship with the late atheist Christopher Hitchens, the philosophical roots of truth skepticism, and the need for genuine dialogue across divides.  Join us as we explore how wisdom, truth, science, and faith intersect—and why curiosity and compassion might just be the antidote to our age of distrust.  Show Notes  Resources:  "The Road to Wisdom" by Francis Collins  Similar NSE episodes:  Quincy Byrdsong: Tuskegee, Healthcare, Justice  Jennifer Wiseman: How Science Produces Wonder  David Wilkinson: The (Not Really) War Between Science and Faith  Rachel Held Evans, Francis Collins, and Ed Larson: Faith, Science, Humility  PDF of Lee's Interview Notes  Transcription Link  Want more NSE? JOIN NSE+ Today! Our subscriber only community with bonus episodes designed specifically to help you live a good life, ad-free listening, and discounts on live shows  Great Feeling Studios, the team behind No Small Endeavor and other award-winning podcasts, helps nonprofits and brands tell stories that inspire action. If your organization has a message that deserves to be heard, start your podcast at helpmemakeapodcast.com.  Subscribe to episodes: Apple | Spotify | Amazon | Google | YouTubeFollow Us: Instagram | Twitter | Facebook | YouTubeFollow Lee: Instagram | TwitterJoin our Email List: nosmallendeavor.com  See Privacy Policy: Privacy Policy  Amazon Affiliate Disclosure: Tokens Media, LLC is a participant in the Amazon Services LLC Associates Program, an affiliate advertising program designed to provide a means for sites to earn advertising fees by advertising and linking to Amazon.com. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

This is our unabridged interview with Nancy French.  Nancy French has spent her career helping others tell their stories. As a five-time New York Times bestselling ghostwriter, she has worked with prominent conservatives, celebrities, and political figures. But in her new memoir, Ghosted: An American Story, Nancy turns the pen on herself, recounting her own journey through faith, politics, and personal betrayal.  A lifelong conservative, Nancy never expected that standing against Donald Trump would lead to ostracism from her own community. Nor did she foresee how uncovering systemic abuse at a major Christian camp would result in personal vitriol toward her. In this deeply honest conversation, Nancy and Lee discuss the personal cost of truth-telling, the cultural divide in America, and how faith can persist even amid profound disappointment.  Show Notes  Resources:  Ghosted: An American Story by Nancy French  David French’s NYT column  USA Today article: Kanakuk Abuse Investigation  Gretchen Carlson’s work on NDAs, workplace harassment  No More  SAMHSA    Similar NSE episodes:  David French & Russell Moore: How Should Christians Do Politics  Taking the Beatitudes Seriously: John Dear  Kristin Du Mez sits with David French   PDF of Lee's Interview Notes  Transcript  Want more NSE? JOIN NSE+ Today! Our subscriber only community with bonus episodes designed specifically to help you live a good life, ad-free listening, and discounts on live shows  Subscribe to episodes: Apple | Spotify | Amazon | Google | YouTubeFollow Us: Instagram | Twitter | Facebook | YouTubeFollow Lee: Instagram | TwitterJoin our Email List: nosmallendeavor.com  See Privacy Policy: Privacy Policy  Amazon Affiliate Disclosure: Tokens Media, LLC is a participant in the Amazon Services LLC Associates Program, an affiliate advertising program designed to provide a means for sites to earn advertising fees by advertising and linking to Amazon.com. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Nancy French has spent her career helping others tell their stories. As a five-time New York Times bestselling ghostwriter, she has worked with prominent conservatives, celebrities, and political figures. But in her new memoir, Ghosted: An American Story, Nancy turns the pen on herself, recounting her own journey through faith, politics, and personal betrayal.  A lifelong conservative, Nancy never expected that standing against Donald Trump would lead to ostracism from her own community. Nor did she foresee how uncovering systemic abuse at a major Christian camp would result in personal vitriol toward her. In this deeply honest conversation, Nancy and Lee discuss the personal cost of truth-telling, the cultural divide in America, and how faith can persist even amid profound disappointment.  Show Notes  Resources mentioned this episode:  Ghosted: An American Story by Nancy French  David French’s NYT column  USA Today article: Kanakuk Abuse Investigation  Gretchen Carlson’s work on NDAs, workplace harassment  No More  SAMHSA    Similar NSE episodes:  David French & Russell Moore: How Should Christians Do Politics  Taking the Beatitudes Seriously: John Dear  Kristin Du Mez sits with David French   PDF of Lee's Interview Notes  Transcription Link  Want more NSE? JOIN NSE+ Today! Our subscriber only community with bonus episodes designed specifically to help you live a good life, ad-free listening, and discounts on live shows  Subscribe to episodes: Apple | Spotify | Amazon | Google | YouTubeFollow Us: Instagram | Twitter | Facebook | YouTubeFollow Lee: Instagram | TwitterJoin our Email List: nosmallendeavor.com  See Privacy Policy: Privacy Policy  Amazon Affiliate Disclosure: Tokens Media, LLC is a participant in the Amazon Services LLC Associates Program, an affiliate advertising program designed to provide a means for sites to earn advertising fees by advertising and linking to Amazon.com. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

This is our unabridged interview with Mpho Tutu van Furth.  What does it mean to ask someone for forgiveness? The experience after Apartheid in South Africa has much to teach us.  “In English, you say, ‘I’m sorry, forgive me.’ It’s all about me”   Says Mpho Tutu van Furth, daughter to the late Desmond Tutu.  But in the South African language of Xhosa  “You say ndicela uxolo which means ‘I ask for peace’. And that’s a very different thing than ‘forgive me’”  In this episode, explore the deep impact of apartheid in South Africa, the meaning of true forgiveness, and the profound philosophy of Ubuntu. Discover how Mpho carries on her father's legacy of peace and reconciliation while navigating her own journey as an Episcopalian priest and social activist. This heartfelt and enlightening conversation delves into the courage required to love, forgive, and build a just community.  Show Notes  Resources mentioned this episode:  The Desmond & Leah Tutu Legacy Foundation  Forgiveness and Reparation: The Healing Journey by Mpho Tutu  The Book of Forgiving by Desdmond Tutu and Mpho Tutu  Truth and Reconciliation Commission of South Africa     Similar NSE episodes:  Azim Khamisa: Ending Violence Through Forgiveness  Forgiving My Mother’s Murderer: Sharon Risher  Pádraig Ó Tuama: A Poet’s Work in Peace and Reconciliation  PDF of Lee's Interview Notes  Transcript of Abridged Episode  Want more NSE? JOIN NSE+ Today! Our subscriber only community with bonus episodes designed specifically to help you live a good life, ad-free listening, and discounts on live shows  Subscribe to episodes: Apple | Spotify | Amazon | Google | YouTubeFollow Us: Instagram | Twitter | Facebook | YouTubeFollow Lee: Instagram | TwitterJoin our Email List: nosmallendeavor.com  See Privacy Policy: Privacy Policy  Amazon Affiliate Disclosure: Tokens Media, LLC is a participant in the Amazon Services LLC Associates Program, an affiliate advertising program designed to provide a means for sites to earn advertising fees by advertising and linking to Amazon.com. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

What does it mean to ask someone for forgiveness? The experience after Apartheid in South Africa has much to teach us.  “In English, you say, ‘I’m sorry, forgive me.’ It’s all about me”   Says Mpho Tutu van Furth, the daughter to the late Desmond Tutu.  But in the South African language of Xhosa  “You say ndicela uxolo which means ‘I ask for peace’. And that’s a very different thing than ‘forgive me’”  In this episode, explore the deep impact of apartheid in South Africa, the meaning of true forgiveness, and the profound philosophy of Ubuntu. Discover how Mpho carries on her father's legacy of peace and reconciliation while navigating her own journey as an Episcopalian priest and social activist. This heartfelt and enlightening conversation delves into the courage required to love, forgive, and build a just community.  Show Notes  Resources mentioned this episode:  The Desmond & Leah Tutu Legacy Foundation  Forgiveness and Reparation: The Healing Journey by Mpho Tutu  The Book of Forgiving by Desdmond Tutu and Mpho Tutu  Truth and Reconciliation Commission of South Africa    Similar NSE episodes:  Azim Khamisa: Ending Violence Through Forgiveness  Forgiving My Mother’s Murderer: Sharon Risher  Pádraig Ó Tuama: A Poet’s Work in Peace and Reconciliation  PDF of Lee's Interview Notes  Transcription Link  Want more NSE? JOIN NSE+ Today! Our subscriber only community with bonus episodes designed specifically to help you live a good life, ad-free listening, and discounts on live shows  Subscribe to episodes: Apple | Spotify | Amazon | Google | YouTubeFollow Us: Instagram | Twitter | Facebook | YouTubeFollow Lee: Instagram | TwitterJoin our Email List: nosmallendeavor.com  See Privacy Policy: Privacy Policy  Amazon Affiliate Disclosure: Tokens Media, LLC is a participant in the Amazon Services LLC Associates Program, an affiliate advertising program designed to provide a means for sites to earn advertising fees by advertising and linking to Amazon.com. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

This is our unabridged interview with Russ Taff.  “I was 24 when I won my first Grammy,” says Russ Taff. “And within an hour, all the joy is gone.”  Russ is a legend in Gospel music circles. His accolades include six Grammys, sixteen Doves, and three inductions into the GMA Hall of Fame for his work as a solo artist and a member of multiple bands. But underneath—his career, his success, and his past, almost broke him.  In this episode, Russ gets vulnerable about his childhood trauma, his self-hatred, his alcoholism, and his long road to recovery and forgiveness.  Show Notes  Resources mentioned this episode:  Russ’s Website  "Cover Story" by Russ Taff  Similar NSE episodes:  Amy Grant: Fame, Vulnerability, and Staying Grounded  Drew Holcomb: Fighting Dragons and Singing at Loss  Megan Barry: Addiction, Loss, Possibility  Ashley Cleveland: Does This Make My Butt Look Big?  PDF of Lee's Interview Notes  Transcript of Abridged Episode  Want more NSE? JOIN NSE+ Today! Our subscriber only community with bonus episodes designed specifically to help you live a good life, ad-free listening, and discounts on live shows  Subscribe to episodes: Apple | Spotify | Amazon | Google | YouTubeFollow Us: Instagram | Twitter | Facebook | YouTubeFollow Lee: Instagram | TwitterJoin our Email List: nosmallendeavor.com  See Privacy Policy: Privacy Policy  Amazon Affiliate Disclosure: Tokens Media, LLC is a participant in the Amazon Services LLC Associates Program, an affiliate advertising program designed to provide a means for sites to earn advertising fees by advertising and linking to Amazon.com. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

“I was 24 when I won my first Grammy,” says Russ Taff. “And within an hour, all the joy is gone.”  Russ is a legend in Gospel music circles. His accolades include six Grammys, sixteen Doves, and three inductions into the GMA Hall of Fame for his work as a solo artist and a member of multiple bands. But underneath—his career, his success, and his past, almost broke him.  In this episode, Russ gets vulnerable about his childhood trauma, his self-hatred, his alcoholism, and his long road to recovery and forgiveness.  Show Notes  Resources mentioned this episode:  Russ’s Website  "Cover Story" by Russ Taff  Similar NSE episodes:  Amy Grant: Fame, Vulnerability, and Staying Grounded  Drew Holcomb: Fighting Dragons and Singing at Loss  Megan Barry: Addiction, Loss, Possibility  Ashley Cleveland: Does This Make My Butt Look Big?  PDF of Lee's Interview Notes  Transcription Link  Want more NSE? JOIN NSE+ Today! Our subscriber only community with bonus episodes designed specifically to help you live a good life, ad-free listening, and discounts on live shows  Subscribe to episodes: Apple | Spotify | Amazon | Google | YouTubeFollow Us: Instagram | Twitter | Facebook | YouTubeFollow Lee: Instagram | TwitterJoin our Email List: nosmallendeavor.com  See Privacy Policy: Privacy Policy  Amazon Affiliate Disclosure: Tokens Media, LLC is a participant in the Amazon Services LLC Associates Program, an affiliate advertising program designed to provide a means for sites to earn advertising fees by advertising and linking to Amazon.com. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

This is our unabridged interview with Alexandra Solomon.  Is your love life in need of a tune-up?  Just in time for Valentine's Day, renowned relationship expert Dr. Alexandra Solomon joins us to share powerful insights from her book, "Loving Bravely."  Discover how self-awareness and understanding your past can dramatically improve your present relationships.  Dr. Solomon unpacks the secrets to thriving intimacy, from mastering the art of apology to staying truly present with your partner.  Plus, get practical tools for navigating the inevitable challenges of long-term love.  Tune in for this insightful conversation that will empower you to build stronger, more fulfilling relationships.  Show Notes  Resources mentioned this episode:  Reimagining Love Podcast  “Loving Bravely” by Alexandra Solomon  Similar NSE episodes:  Kristin Neff: The Power of Self-Compassion  Heather Holleman: The Art of Conversation  Robert Waldinger and Marc Schulz: Lessons from the World’s Longest Scientific Study of Happiness  PDF of Lee's Interview Notes  Transcript of Abridged Interview  Want more NSE? JOIN NSE+ Today! Our subscriber only community with bonus episodes designed specifically to help you live a good life, ad-free listening, and discounts on live shows  Subscribe to episodes: Apple | Spotify | Amazon | Google | YouTubeFollow Us: Instagram | Twitter | Facebook | YouTubeFollow Lee: Instagram | TwitterJoin our Email List: nosmallendeavor.com  See Privacy Policy: Privacy Policy  Amazon Affiliate Disclosure: Tokens Media, LLC is a participant in the Amazon Services LLC Associates Program, an affiliate advertising program designed to provide a means for sites to earn advertising fees by advertising and linking to Amazon.com. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Is your love life in need of a tune-up?  Just in time for Valentine's Day, renowned relationship expert Dr. Alexandra Solomon joins us to share powerful insights from her book, "Loving Bravely."  Discover how self-awareness and understanding your past can dramatically improve your present relationships.  Dr. Solomon unpacks the secrets to thriving intimacy, from mastering the art of apology to staying truly present with your partner.  Plus, get practical tools for navigating the inevitable challenges of long-term love.  Tune in for this insightful conversation that will empower you to build stronger, more fulfilling relationships.  Show Notes  Resources mentioned this episode:  Reimagining Love Podcast  “Loving Bravely” by Alexandra Solomon  Similar NSE episodes:  Kristin Neff: The Power of Self-Compassion  Heather Holleman: The Art of Conversation  Robert Waldinger and Marc Schulz: Lessons from the World’s Longest Scientific Study of Happiness  PDF of Lee's Interview Notes  Transcription Link  Want more NSE? JOIN NSE+ Today! Our subscriber only community with bonus episodes designed specifically to help you live a good life, ad-free listening, and discounts on live shows  Subscribe to episodes: Apple | Spotify | Amazon | Google | YouTubeFollow Us: Instagram | Twitter | Facebook | YouTubeFollow Lee: Instagram | TwitterJoin our Email List: nosmallendeavor.com  See Privacy Policy: Privacy Policy  Amazon Affiliate Disclosure: Tokens Media, LLC is a participant in the Amazon Services LLC Associates Program, an affiliate advertising program designed to provide a means for sites to earn advertising fees by advertising and linking to Amazon.com. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

This is our unabridged interview with Shankar Vedantam.  We all like to believe that we live our lives rationally, deliberately, consciously. But what if our conscious decision making is just the tip of the iceberg?  “ I feel like I have a full picture of what's happening inside my own mind,” says Shankar Vedantam. But it turns out “there is a large portion of our mind that's working outside of our conscious awareness.”  Shankar founded Hidden Brain Media in order to teach people what science has uncovered about our brains. In this episode, he discusses why we’re not as autonomous as we think we are, and the profound implications for the ways we act, think, and live.  Show Notes  Resources mentioned this episode:  “Hidden Brain” by Shankar Vedantam  Hidden Brain Website  Shankar’s TED Talk  Similar NSE episodes:  Dacher Keltner: How Awe Will Transform Your Life  Kristin Neff: The Power of Self-Compassion  Amishi Jha: Push-ups for Your Brain  Heather Holleman: The Art of Conversation  PDF of Lee's Interview Notes  Transcript of Abridged Interview  Want more NSE? JOIN NSE+ Today! Our subscriber only community with bonus episodes designed specifically to help you live a good life, ad-free listening, and discounts on live shows  Subscribe to episodes: Apple | Spotify | Amazon | Google | YouTubeFollow Us: Instagram | Twitter | Facebook | YouTubeFollow Lee: Instagram | TwitterJoin our Email List: nosmallendeavor.com  See Privacy Policy: Privacy Policy  Amazon Affiliate Disclosure: Tokens Media, LLC is a participant in the Amazon Services LLC Associates Program, an affiliate advertising program designed to provide a means for sites to earn advertising fees by advertising and linking to Amazon.com. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

We all like to believe that we live our lives rationally, deliberately, consciously. But what if our conscious decision making is just the tip of the iceberg?  “ I feel like I have a full picture of what's happening inside my own mind,” says Shankar Vedantam. But it turns out “there is a large portion of our mind that's working outside of our conscious awareness.”  Shankar founded Hidden Brain Media in order to teach people what science has uncovered about our brains. In this episode, he discusses why we’re not as autonomous as we think we are, and the profound implications for the ways we act, think, and live.  Show Notes  Resources mentioned this episode:  “Hidden Brain” by Shankar Vedantam  Hidden Brain Website  Shankar’s TED Talk  Similar NSE episodes:  Dacher Keltner: How Awe Will Transform Your Life  Kristin Neff: The Power of Self-Compassion  Amishi Jha: Push-ups for Your Brain  Heather Holleman: The Art of Conversation  PDF of Lee's Interview Notes  Transcription Link  Want more NSE? JOIN NSE+ Today! Our subscriber only community with bonus episodes designed specifically to help you live a good life, ad-free listening, and discounts on live shows  Subscribe to episodes: Apple | Spotify | Amazon | Google | YouTubeFollow Us: Instagram | Twitter | Facebook | YouTubeFollow Lee: Instagram | TwitterJoin our Email List: nosmallendeavor.com  See Privacy Policy: Privacy Policy  Amazon Affiliate Disclosure: Tokens Media, LLC is a participant in the Amazon Services LLC Associates Program, an affiliate advertising program designed to provide a means for sites to earn advertising fees by advertising and linking to Amazon.com. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

This is our unabridged interview with Nadia Bolz-Weber.  “When I left the Christian Fundamentalism of my childhood, I became an activist.”  Christian Fundamentalism is often looked down upon for its dualistic, black-and-white outlook, which is often used for policing behavior. But, Nadia Bolz-Weber explains, these are the same extreme tendencies that she found in secular activism after she left the church.  Later in life, after working as a comedian and entering recovery, Nadia began to untangle the mindset that had taken her from one extreme to the other. Her long journey has since led her to becoming a Lutheran pastor and a three-time bestselling author. In this episode, she tells her story.  Show Notes  Resources mentioned this episode:  “Shameless” by Nadia Bolz-Weber  “Pastrix” by Nadia Bolz-Weber  Similar NSE episodes:  Philip Yancey: Where the Light Fell  Kelly Corrigan: How Vulnerability Leads to Connection  Musa al-Gharbi: We Have Never Been Woke  Suzanne Stabile: Exploring the Enneagram  PDF of Lee's Interview Notes  Transcript of Abridged Interview  Want more NSE? JOIN NSE+ Today! Our subscriber only community with bonus episodes designed specifically to help you live a good life, ad-free listening, and discounts on live shows  Subscribe to episodes: Apple | Spotify | Amazon | Google | YouTubeFollow Us: Instagram | Twitter | Facebook | YouTubeFollow Lee: Instagram | TwitterJoin our Email List: nosmallendeavor.com  See Privacy Policy: Privacy Policy  Amazon Affiliate Disclosure: Tokens Media, LLC is a participant in the Amazon Services LLC Associates Program, an affiliate advertising program designed to provide a means for sites to earn advertising fees by advertising and linking to Amazon.com. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

“When I left the Christian Fundamentalism of my childhood, I became an activist.”  Christian Fundamentalism is often looked down upon for its dualistic, black-and-white outlook, which is often used for policing behavior. But, Nadia Bolz-Weber explains, these are the same extreme tendencies that she found in secular activism after she left the church.  Later in life, after working as a comedian and entering recovery, Nadia began to untangle the mindset that had taken her from one extreme to the other. Her long journey has since led her to becoming a Lutheran pastor and a three-time bestselling author. In this episode, she tells her story.  Show Notes  Resources mentioned this episode:  “Shameless” by Nadia Bolz-Weber  “Pastrix” by Nadia Bolz-Weber  Similar NSE episodes:  Philip Yancey: Where the Light Fell  Kelly Corrigan: How Vulnerability Leads to Connection  Musa al-Gharbi: We Have Never Been Woke  Suzanne Stabile: Exploring the Enneagram  PDF of Lee's Interview Notes  Transcription Link  Want more NSE? JOIN NSE+ Today! Our subscriber only community with bonus episodes designed specifically to help you live a good life, ad-free listening, and discounts on live shows  Subscribe to episodes: Apple | Spotify | Amazon | Google | YouTubeFollow Us: Instagram | Twitter | Facebook | YouTubeFollow Lee: Instagram | TwitterJoin our Email List: nosmallendeavor.com  See Privacy Policy: Privacy Policy  Amazon Affiliate Disclosure: Tokens Media, LLC is a participant in the Amazon Services LLC Associates Program, an affiliate advertising program designed to provide a means for sites to earn advertising fees by advertising and linking to Amazon.com. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

This is our unabridged interview with Esau McCaulley. What is it like growing up Black in the American South?  The question is too particular to answer with abstraction. Instead, Esau McCaulley answers it in the most personal, humble way available, by telling the story of his family in his new memoir, “How Far to the Promised Land: One Black Family's Story of Hope and Survival in the American South.”   In this episode, Esau discusses what he uncovered from a season of digging deeply into family and national history, and describes what the experience taught him about race, faith, and the culture of the South in the United States.  Show Notes  Resources mentioned this episode:  “How Far to the Promised” Land by Esau McCaulley  Similar NSE episodes:  The Architect of the American Civil Rights Movement: James Lawson  Doing Justice Alongside MLK and Rosa Parks: Dr. Fred Gray  Eddie Glaude: On James Baldwin’s America  Thou Shalt Not Be a Jerk: Eugene Cho  White Too Long: Robert Jones  PDF of Lee's Interview Notes  Transcript of Abridged Interview  Want more NSE? JOIN NSE+ Today! Our subscriber only community with bonus episodes designed specifically to help you live a good life, ad-free listening, and discounts on live shows  Subscribe to episodes: Apple | Spotify | Amazon | Google | YouTubeFollow Us: Instagram | Twitter | Facebook | YouTubeFollow Lee: Instagram | TwitterJoin our Email List: nosmallendeavor.com  See Privacy Policy: Privacy Policy  Amazon Affiliate Disclosure: Tokens Media, LLC is a participant in the Amazon Services LLC Associates Program, an affiliate advertising program designed to provide a means for sites to earn advertising fees by advertising and linking to Amazon.com. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

What is it like growing up Black in the American South?  The question is too particular to answer with abstraction. Instead, Esau McCaulley answers it in the most personal, humble way available, by telling the story of his family in his new memoir, “How Far to the Promised Land: One Black Family's Story of Hope and Survival in the American South.”   In this episode, Esau discusses what he uncovered from a season of digging deeply into family and national history, and describes what the experience taught him about race, faith, and the culture of the South in the United States.  Show Notes  Resources mentioned this episode:  “How Far to the Promised” Land by Esau McCaulley  Similar NSE episodes:  The Architect of the American Civil Rights Movement: James Lawson  Doing Justice Alongside MLK and Rosa Parks: Dr. Fred Gray  Eddie Glaude: On James Baldwin’s America  Thou Shalt Not Be a Jerk: Eugene Cho  White Too Long: Robert Jones  PDF of Lee's Interview Notes  Transcription Link  Want more NSE? JOIN NSE+ Today! Our subscriber only community with bonus episodes designed specifically to help you live a good life, ad-free listening, and discounts on live shows  Subscribe to episodes: Apple | Spotify | Amazon | Google | YouTubeFollow Us: Instagram | Twitter | Facebook | YouTubeFollow Lee: Instagram | TwitterJoin our Email List: nosmallendeavor.com  See Privacy Policy: Privacy Policy  Amazon Affiliate Disclosure: Tokens Media, LLC is a participant in the Amazon Services LLC Associates Program, an affiliate advertising program designed to provide a means for sites to earn advertising fees by advertising and linking to Amazon.com. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

This is our unabridged interview with Tom Paxton.  In the 1960s, during the folk music revival in a neighborhood of New York City called Greenwich Village, a small cafe called the Gaslight hosted many singer-songwriters who were up-and-coming at the time. You might know some of their names, like Bob Dylan and Dave Van Ronk.  Among the regulars there was Tom Paxton, who, 60 years and 50 albums later, is still writing and performing folk songs that bear witness to profound societal truths. In this episode, hear from Tom what it was like to perform during those days, what role folk music plays in stirring up the status quo, and thoughts on vulnerability, notoriety, grief, an  Show Notes  Resources mentioned this episode:  Tom’s Website  Doc Watson and Dolly Parton - Merlefest 2001  Similar NSE episodes:  Amy Grant: Fame, Vulnerability, and Staying Grounded  Martin Sheen: Actor and Activist  Drew Holcomb and Audrey Assad: Vulnerable Art  Transcript of Abridged Interview  Want more NSE? JOIN NSE+ Today! Our subscriber only community with bonus episodes designed specifically to help you live a good life, ad-free listening, and discounts on live shows  Subscribe to episodes: Apple | Spotify | Amazon | Google | YouTubeFollow Us: Instagram | Twitter | Facebook | YouTubeFollow Lee: Instagram | TwitterJoin our Email List: nosmallendeavor.com  See Privacy Policy: Privacy Policy  Amazon Affiliate Disclosure: Tokens Media, LLC is a participant in the Amazon Services LLC Associates Program, an affiliate advertising program designed to provide a means for sites to earn advertising fees by advertising and linking to Amazon.com. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

In the 1960s, during the folk music revival in a neighborhood of New York City called Greenwich Village, a small cafe called the Gaslight hosted many singer-songwriters who were up-and-coming at the time. You might know some of their names, like Bob Dylan and Dave Van Ronk.  Among the regulars there was Tom Paxton, who, 60 years and 50 albums later, is still writing and performing folk songs that bear witness to profound societal truths. In this episode, hear from Tom what it was like to perform during those days, what role folk music plays in stirring up the status quo, and thoughts on vulnerability, notoriety, grief, an  Show Notes  Resources mentioned this episode:  Tom’s Website  Similar NSE episodes:  Amy Grant: Fame, Vulnerability, and Staying Grounded  Martin Sheen: Actor and Activist  Drew Holcomb and Audrey Assad: Vulnerable Art  Transcription Link  This episode of No Small Endeavor is sponsored by Dwell—the audio bible app. To get 25% off your subscription visit dwellbible.com/nse  Want more NSE? JOIN NSE+ Today! Our subscriber only community with bonus episodes designed specifically to help you live a good life, ad-free listening, and discounts on live shows  Subscribe to episodes: Apple | Spotify | Amazon | Google | YouTubeFollow Us: Instagram | Twitter | Facebook | YouTubeFollow Lee: Instagram | TwitterJoin our Email List: nosmallendeavor.com  See Privacy Policy: Privacy Policy  Amazon Affiliate Disclosure: Tokens Media, LLC is a participant in the Amazon Services LLC Associates Program, an affiliate advertising program designed to provide a means for sites to earn advertising fees by advertising and linking to Amazon.com. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

This is our unabridged interview with Makoto Fujimura.  Makoto Fujimura occupies an unusual intersection of personal realities: He is an abstract expressionist artist who discovered his Christian faith as an art student in Japan. He continually finds himself trying to bridge the divide between religion and art. “I can't really talk about my faith with my artist friends, and I can't talk about art with my Christian friends,” he says. “But for me, it's never been that way.” In this episode, he talks about how he uses traditional Japanese methods of painting — “slow art,” as he calls it — to explore grief, brokenness, and healing.  Show Notes  Resources mentioned this episode:  “Art and Faith: A Theology of Making” by Makoto Fujimura (Yale University Press)  Examples of Mako’s Paintings  The Four Holy Gospels  "Silence" by Shūsaku Endō  Similar NSE episodes:  Drew Holcomb and Audrey Assad: Vulnerable Art  Christian Wiman: Poetry Against Despair  Poetry as Politics: Poet Laureates Tracy K. Smith and Marie Howe  Transcript of Abridged Interview  This episode of No Small Endeavor is sponsored by Dwell—the audio bible app. To get 25% off your subscription visit dwellbible.com/nse  Want more NSE? JOIN NSE+ Today! Our subscriber only community with bonus episodes designed specifically to help you live a good life, ad-free listening, and discounts on live shows  Subscribe to episodes: Apple | Spotify | Amazon | Google | YouTubeFollow Us: Instagram | Twitter | Facebook | YouTubeFollow Lee: Instagram | TwitterJoin our Email List: nosmallendeavor.com  See Privacy Policy: Privacy Policy  Amazon Affiliate Disclosure: Tokens Media, LLC is a participant in the Amazon Services LLC Associates Program, an affiliate advertising program designed to provide a means for sites to earn advertising fees by advertising and linking to Amazon.com. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Makoto Fujimura occupies an unusual intersection of personal realities: He is an abstract expressionist artist who discovered his Christian faith as an art student in Japan. He continually finds himself trying to bridge the divide between religion and art. “I can't really talk about my faith with my artist friends, and I can't talk about art with my Christian friends,” he says. “But for me, it's never been that way.” In this episode, he talks about how he uses traditional Japanese methods of painting — “slow art,” as he calls it — to explore grief, brokenness, and healing.  Show Notes  Resources mentioned this episode:  “Art and Faith: A Theology of Making” by Makoto Fujimura (Yale University Press)  Examples of Mako’s Paintings  The Four Holy Gospels  "Silence" by Shūsaku Endō  Similar NSE episodes:  Drew Holcomb and Audrey Assad: Vulnerable Art  Christian Wiman: Poetry Against Despair  Poetry as Politics: Poet Laureates Tracy K. Smith and Marie Howe  Transcription Link  This episode of No Small Endeavor is sponsored by Dwell—the audio bible app. To get 25% off your subscription visit dwellbible.com/nse  Want more NSE? JOIN NSE+ Today! Our subscriber only community with bonus episodes designed specifically to help you live a good life, ad-free listening, and discounts on live shows  Subscribe to episodes: Apple | Spotify | Amazon | Google | YouTubeFollow Us: Instagram | Twitter | Facebook | YouTubeFollow Lee: Instagram | TwitterJoin our Email List: nosmallendeavor.com  See Privacy Policy: Privacy Policy  Amazon Affiliate Disclosure: Tokens Media, LLC is a participant in the Amazon Services LLC Associates Program, an affiliate advertising program designed to provide a means for sites to earn advertising fees by advertising and linking to Amazon.com. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

This is our unabridged interview with Oliver Burkeman.  In an age full of lifehacks, self-help books, and productivity gurus, many of us only end up busier and more stressed than we were before. What if there’s a better way to live a full, fruitful life?  "The world is bursting with wonder,” says Oliver Burkeman, “and yet it's the rare productivity guru who seems to have considered the possibility that the ultimate point of all our frenetic doing might be to experience more of that wonder."  In this episode, he discusses his New York Times Bestselling book 4000 Weeks: Time Management for Mortals, dispelling many contemporary ideas about productivity, and instead suggesting a wonder-fueled, counterintuitive method for flourishing in the world.  Show Notes  Resources mentioned this episode:  "Four Thousand Weeks" by Oliver Burkeman  "The Antidote" by Oliver Burkeman  “A Testament of Devotion” by Thomas Raymond Kelly   Catherine Andrews, "Why You're Going About Recovering from Perfectionism All Wrong"  Similar NSE episodes:  Seven Ways to Ruin Your Life: Rebecca DeYoung  The Ruthless Elimination of Hurry: John Mark Comer  The Power of Sabbath Rest: Judith Shulevitz  PDF of Lee's Interview Notes  Transcript of Abridged Interview  This episode of No Small Endeavor is sponsored by Dwell—the audio bible app. To get 25% off your subscription visit dwellbible.com/nse  Want more NSE? JOIN NSE+ Today! Our subscriber only community with bonus episodes designed specifically to help you live a good life, ad-free listening, and discounts on live shows  Subscribe to episodes: Apple | Spotify | Amazon | Google | YouTubeFollow Us: Instagram | Twitter | Facebook | YouTubeFollow Lee: Instagram | TwitterJoin our Email List: nosmallendeavor.com  See Privacy Policy: Privacy Policy  Amazon Affiliate Disclosure: Tokens Media, LLC is a participant in the Amazon Services LLC Associates Program, an affiliate advertising program designed to provide a means for sites to earn advertising fees by advertising and linking to Amazon.com. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

In an age full of lifehacks, self-help books, and productivity gurus, many of us only end up busier and more stressed than we were before. What if there’s a better way to live a full, fruitful life?  "The world is bursting with wonder,” says Oliver Burkeman, “and yet it's the rare productivity guru who seems to have considered the possibility that the ultimate point of all our frenetic doing might be to experience more of that wonder."  In this episode, he discusses his New York Times Bestselling book 4000 Weeks: Time Management for Mortals, dispelling many contemporary ideas about productivity, and instead suggesting a wonder-fueled, counterintuitive method for flourishing in the world. Show Notes  Resources mentioned this episode:  "Four Thousand Weeks" by Oliver Burkeman  "The Antidote" by Oliver Burkeman  “A Testament of Devotion” by Thomas Raymond Kelly   Catherine Andrews, "Why You're Going About Recovering from Perfectionism All Wrong"  “Man’s Search for Meaning” by Victor Frankl  Similar NSE episodes:  Seven Ways to Ruin Your Life: Rebecca DeYoung  The Ruthless Elimination of Hurry: John Mark Comer  The Power of Sabbath Rest: Judith Shulevitz  PDF of Lee's Interview Notes  Transcription Link  Want more NSE? JOIN NSE+ Today! Our subscriber only community with bonus episodes designed specifically to help you live a good life, ad-free listening, and discounts on live shows  Subscribe to episodes: Apple | Spotify | Amazon | Google | YouTubeFollow Us: Instagram | Twitter | Facebook | YouTubeFollow Lee: Instagram | TwitterJoin our Email List: nosmallendeavor.com  See Privacy Policy: Privacy Policy  Amazon Affiliate Disclosure: Tokens Media, LLC is a participant in the Amazon Services LLC Associates Program, an affiliate advertising program designed to provide a means for sites to earn advertising fees by advertising and linking to Amazon.com. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

This is our unabridged interview with Kelly Corrigan. “What percentage of all pain in the world is related to wanting to belong?”  Kelly Corrigan - who you may know as a New York Times bestselling author and the host of a number of popular radio and TV shows - was a young mother of two when she and her beloved father were both diagnosed with cancer. It was, to say the least, an immensely difficult time.  Yet, she found her way through it by relying heavily on her tendency to be vulnerable, rather than hiding her pain from others. “It's just fodder for us to be closer,” she says of her suffering. “The point is to connect.” In this episode, she shares her story, along with much wisdom gleaned from a life of leaning into vulnerability.  Show Notes  Resources mentioned this episode:  “Tell Me More” by Kelly Corrigan  “The Middle Place” by Kelly Corrigan  “Tell Me More” on PBS  Kelly Corrigan Wonders Podcast  Similar NSE episodes:  Amy Grant: Fame, Vulnerability, and Staying Grounded  William Paul Young: Author of The Shack  Curt Thompson: The Power of Being Known  PDF of Lee's Interview Notes  Transcript of Abridged Episode  Want more NSE? JOIN NSE+ Today! Our subscriber only community with bonus episodes designed specifically to help you live a good life, ad-free listening, and discounts on live shows  Subscribe to episodes: Apple | Spotify | Amazon | Google | YouTubeFollow Us: Instagram | Twitter | Facebook | YouTubeFollow Lee: Instagram | TwitterJoin our Email List: nosmallendeavor.com  See Privacy Policy: Privacy Policy  Amazon Affiliate Disclosure: Tokens Media, LLC is a participant in the Amazon Services LLC Associates Program, an affiliate advertising program designed to provide a means for sites to earn advertising fees by advertising and linking to Amazon.com. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

“What percentage of all pain in the world is related to wanting to belong?”  Kelly Corrigan - who you may know as a New York Times bestselling author and the host of a number of popular radio and TV shows - was a young mother of two when she and her beloved father were both diagnosed with cancer. It was, to say the least, an immensely difficult time.  Yet, she found her way through it by relying heavily on her tendency to be vulnerable, rather than hiding her pain from others. “It's just fodder for us to be closer,” she says of her suffering. “The point is to connect.” In this episode, she shares her story, along with much wisdom gleaned from a life of leaning into vulnerability.  Show Notes  Resources mentioned this episode:  “Tell Me More” by Kelly Corrigan  “The Middle Place” by Kelly Corrigan  “Tell Me More” on PBS  Kelly Corrigan Wonders Podcast  Similar NSE episodes:  Amy Grant: Fame, Vulnerability, and Staying Grounded  William Paul Young: Author of The Shack  Curt Thompson: The Power of Being Known  PDF of Lee's Interview Notes  Transcription Link  Want more NSE? JOIN NSE+ Today! Our subscriber only community with bonus episodes designed specifically to help you live a good life, ad-free listening, and discounts on live shows  Subscribe to episodes: Apple | Spotify | Amazon | Google | YouTubeFollow Us: Instagram | Twitter | Facebook | YouTubeFollow Lee: Instagram | TwitterJoin our Email List: nosmallendeavor.com  See Privacy Policy: Privacy Policy  Amazon Affiliate Disclosure: Tokens Media, LLC is a participant in the Amazon Services LLC Associates Program, an affiliate advertising program designed to provide a means for sites to earn advertising fees by advertising and linking to Amazon.com. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

This is our unabridged interview with Meghan Sullivan. What does it mean to live a good life, and how do we start?  On our show, we make it a habit of repeating our tagline: “Exploring what it means to live a good life.” But in this episode, we address the issue head-on, with the help of Notre Dame Professor of Philosophy Meghan Sullivan.  We discuss her book “The Good Life Method,” which gives helpful insight about the kinds of questions philosophers and theologians have been asking for millennia: What does it mean to pursue a life worth living? What sort of end ought we keep in mind in all our doing and living and being? And how might we get there?  Show Notes  Resources mentioned this episode:  "The Good Life Method" by Meghan Sullivan  "On Bullshit" by Harry G. Frankfurt  “The Will To Believe” by William James  Similar NSE episodes:  Edith Hall: How Ancient Wisdom Can Change Your Life  Charles Duhigg: The Power of Habit  Rebecca DeYoung: The Seven Deadly Sins  Robert Waldinger and Marc Schulz: The Good Life  PDF of Lee's Interview Notes  Transcript of Abridged Episode  Want more NSE? JOIN NSE+ Today! Our subscriber only community with bonus episodes designed specifically to help you live a good life, ad-free listening, and discounts on live shows  Subscribe to episodes: Apple | Spotify | Amazon | Google | YouTubeFollow Us: Instagram | Twitter | Facebook | YouTubeFollow Lee: Instagram | TwitterJoin our Email List: nosmallendeavor.com  See Privacy Policy: Privacy Policy  Amazon Affiliate Disclosure: Tokens Media, LLC is a participant in the Amazon Services LLC Associates Program, an affiliate advertising program designed to provide a means for sites to earn advertising fees by advertising and linking to Amazon.com. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

What does it mean to live a good life, and how do we start?  On our show, we make it a habit of repeating our tagline: “Exploring what it means to live a good life.” But in this episode, we address the issue head-on, with the help of Notre Dame Professor of Philosophy Meghan Sullivan.  We discuss her book “The Good Life Method,” which gives helpful insight about the kinds of questions philosophers and theologians have been asking for millennia: What does it mean to pursue a life worth living? What sort of end ought we keep in mind in all our doing and living and being? And how might we get there?  Show Notes  Resources mentioned this episode:  "The Good Life Method" by Meghan Sullivan  "On Bullshit" by Harry G. Frankfurt  “The Will To Believe” by William James  Similar NSE episodes:  Edith Hall: How Ancient Wisdom Can Change Your Life  Charles Duhigg: The Power of Habit  Rebecca DeYoung: The Seven Deadly Sins  Robert Waldinger and Marc Schulz: The Good Life  PDF of Lee's Interview Notes  Transcription Link  Want more NSE? JOIN NSE+ Today! Our subscriber only community with bonus episodes designed specifically to help you live a good life, ad-free listening, and discounts on live shows  Subscribe to episodes: Apple | Spotify | Amazon | Google | YouTubeFollow Us: Instagram | Twitter | Facebook | YouTubeFollow Lee: Instagram | TwitterJoin our Email List: nosmallendeavor.com  See Privacy Policy: Privacy Policy  Amazon Affiliate Disclosure: Tokens Media, LLC is a participant in the Amazon Services LLC Associates Program, an affiliate advertising program designed to provide a means for sites to earn advertising fees by advertising and linking to Amazon.com. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

This is our unabridged interview with The Hillbilly Thomists. There aren’t many Billboard-charting bluegrass bands made up entirely of Catholic Dominican Friars, who play their shows clad in white tunics and rosaries. In fact, there is precisely one such band: the Hillbilly Thomists.  “A Thomist is someone who follows the thought and theological teaching of Saint Thomas Aquinas,” they explain. “We combine it with a little bit of humor about our human condition.” In this episode, they talk about their theology and vocation, as well as how they manage life on the road as priests who have taken a vow of poverty. Plus, they give live performances of some of their finest songs.  Show Notes  Resources mentioned this episode:  The Hillbilly Thomists’ Website  Similar NSE episodes:  N.T. Wright and the Bancroft Brothers: Theology and Poetry  Edith Hall: How Ancient Wisdom Can Change Your Life  Drew Holcomb: Fighting Dragons and Singing at Loss  PDF of Lee's Interview Notes  Transcript of Abridged Episode  Want more NSE? JOIN NSE+ Today! Our subscriber only community with bonus episodes designed specifically to help you live a good life, ad-free listening, and discounts on live shows  Subscribe to episodes: Apple | Spotify | Amazon | Google | YouTubeFollow Us: Instagram | Twitter | Facebook | YouTubeFollow Lee: Instagram | TwitterJoin our Email List: nosmallendeavor.com  See Privacy Policy: Privacy Policy  Amazon Affiliate Disclosure: Tokens Media, LLC is a participant in the Amazon Services LLC Associates Program, an affiliate advertising program designed to provide a means for sites to earn advertising fees by advertising and linking to Amazon.com. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

There aren’t many Billboard-charting bluegrass bands made up entirely of Catholic Dominican Friars, who play their shows clad in white tunics and rosaries. In fact, there is precisely one such band: the Hillbilly Thomists.  “A Thomist is someone who follows the thought and theological teaching of Saint Thomas Aquinas,” they explain. “We combine it with a little bit of humor about our human condition.” In this episode, they talk about their theology and vocation, as well as how they manage life on the road as priests who have taken a vow of poverty. Plus, they give live performances of some of their finest songs.  Show Notes  Resources mentioned this episode:  The Hillbilly Thomists’ Website  Similar NSE episodes:  N.T. Wright and the Bancroft Brothers: Theology and Poetry  Edith Hall: How Ancient Wisdom Can Change Your Life  Drew Holcomb: Fighting Dragons and Singing at Loss  PDF of Lee's Interview Notes  Transcription Link  Want more NSE? JOIN NSE+ Today! Our subscriber only community with bonus episodes designed specifically to help you live a good life, ad-free listening, and discounts on live shows  Subscribe to episodes: Apple | Spotify | Amazon | Google | YouTubeFollow Us: Instagram | Twitter | Facebook | YouTubeFollow Lee: Instagram | TwitterJoin our Email List: nosmallendeavor.com  See Privacy Policy: Privacy Policy  Amazon Affiliate Disclosure: Tokens Media, LLC is a participant in the Amazon Services LLC Associates Program, an affiliate advertising program designed to provide a means for sites to earn advertising fees by advertising and linking to Amazon.com. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

This is our unabridged interview with Audrey Assad. “Why shouldn’t I question that?” This was the question that started Audrey Assad on a journey away from the faith of her childhood and early adulthood. It’s a question that, years later, is still a guiding light for her towards healing and truth-seeking. But asking such questions after years as an acclaimed singer-songwriter in the Christian music industry comes at a cost. Today, Audrey discusses her unreleased memoir “Doubt Becomes Wonder: Embracing the Loss of Everything You Thought You Knew.” They discuss healing from childhood wounds, the consequent navigation of doubt, and Audrey’s experience as a woman in the church.  Show Notes  Resources mentioned this episode:  Audrey’s website  "The Body Keeps the Score" by Bessel van der Kolk  Similar NSE episodes:  Amy Grant: Fame, Vulnerability, and Staying Grounded  Christian Wiman: The Opposite of Faith is Certainty  Joy Oladokun: Listen, Love, and Turn the Other Cheek  Transcript of Abridged Episode  Want more NSE? JOIN NSE+ Today! Our subscriber only community with bonus episodes designed specifically to help you live a good life, ad-free listening, and discounts on live shows  Subscribe to episodes: Apple | Spotify | Amazon | Google | YouTubeFollow Us: Instagram | Twitter | Facebook | YouTubeFollow Lee: Instagram | TwitterJoin our Email List: nosmallendeavor.com  See Privacy Policy: Privacy Policy  Amazon Affiliate Disclosure: Tokens Media, LLC is a participant in the Amazon Services LLC Associates Program, an affiliate advertising program designed to provide a means for sites to earn advertising fees by advertising and linking to Amazon.com. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

“Sometimes artists have to take a chance and be vulnerable.”  Drew Holcomb and Audrey Assad are two such artists, whose brilliance is in large part due to their vulnerability.  Drew was once heralded by Rolling Stone as “one of Americana’s most popular stars,” and yet he is quick to note that “the human heart was not built for notoriety.” He describes the complex road he took to full-time artistry, his relationship with his fans, the tragic loss of his brother, and more.  Audrey found success in the Christian music industry, until her quest for authenticity and truth led her in a new direction. She shares her story, speaking honestly about traumas and doubts that brought her to where she is now.  Show Notes  Resources mentioned this episode:  Drew’s website  Audrey’s website  "The Body Keeps the Score" by Bessel van der Kolk  Similar NSE episodes:  Amy Grant: Fame, Vulnerability, and Staying Grounded  Christian Wiman: The Opposite of Faith is Certainty  Joy Oladokun: Listen, Love, and Turn the Other Cheek  Transcription Link  Want more NSE? JOIN NSE+ Today! Our subscriber only community with bonus episodes designed specifically to help you live a good life, ad-free listening, and discounts on live shows  Subscribe to episodes: Apple | Spotify | Amazon | Google | YouTube Follow Us: Instagram | Twitter | Facebook | YouTube Follow Lee: Instagram | Twitter Join our Email List: nosmallendeavor.com  See Privacy Policy: Privacy Policy  Amazon Affiliate Disclosure: Tokens Media, LLC is a participant in the Amazon Services LLC Associates Program, an affiliate advertising program designed to provide a means for sites to earn advertising fees by advertising and linking to Amazon.com. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

This is our unabridged interview with Peter Levine.  “In order to really move through trauma,” says Peter Levine, “we have to do that in the body.”  As a psychologist with much of his own trauma to work through, Peter has spent his career researching ways to help himself and others come to healing and wholeness. In this episode, he discusses his memoir “An Autobiography of Trauma,” in which he uses his own life story to illustrate his findings.  From a standing meeting with an imagined Albert Einstein, to a host of life-changing dreams, listen as he shares how both his professional research and mystical personal experience have taught him much about the ways our bodies hold trauma, and how we can learn to pay attention to our lives and find healing.  Show Notes  Resources mentioned this episode:  "An Autobiography of Trauma: A Healing Journey" by Peter Levine  "Waking the Tiger: Healing Trauma" by Peter Levine  Similar NSE episodes:  Amishi Jha: Push-ups for Your Brain  Kristin Neff: The Power of Self-Compassion  Tara Brach: Radical Acceptance  Curt Thompson: The Soul of Shame    PDF of Lee's Interview Notes  Transcript of Abridged Episode    Want more NSE? JOIN NSE+ Today! Our subscriber only community with bonus episodes designed specifically to help you live a good life, ad-free listening, and discounts on live shows  Subscribe to episodes: Apple | Spotify | Amazon | Google | YouTubeFollow Us: Instagram | Twitter | Facebook | YouTubeFollow Lee: Instagram | TwitterJoin our Email List: nosmallendeavor.com  See Privacy Policy: Privacy Policy  Amazon Affiliate Disclosure: Tokens Media, LLC is a participant in the Amazon Services LLC Associates Program, an affiliate advertising program designed to provide a means for sites to earn advertising fees by advertising and linking to Amazon.com. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

“In order to really move through trauma,” says Peter Levine, “we have to do that in the body.”  As a psychologist with much of his own trauma to work through, Peter has spent his career researching ways to help himself and others come to healing and wholeness. In this episode, he discusses his memoir “An Autobiography of Trauma,” in which he uses his own life story to illustrate his findings.  From a standing meeting with an imagined Albert Einstein, to a host of life-changing dreams, listen as he shares how both his professional research and mystical personal experience have taught him much about the ways our bodies hold trauma, and how we can learn to pay attention to our lives and find healing.  Show Notes  Resources mentioned this episode:  "An Autobiography of Trauma: A Healing Journey" by Peter Levine  "Waking the Tiger: Healing Trauma" by Peter Levine  Similar NSE episodes:  Amishi Jha: Push-ups for Your Brain  Kristin Neff: The Power of Self-Compassion  Tara Brach: Radical Acceptance  Curt Thompson: The Soul of Shame    PDF of Lee's Interview Notes  Transcription Link    Want more NSE? JOIN NSE+ Today! Our subscriber only community with bonus episodes designed specifically to help you live a good life, ad-free listening, and discounts on live shows  Subscribe to episodes: Apple | Spotify | Amazon | Google | YouTubeFollow Us: Instagram | Twitter | Facebook | YouTubeFollow Lee: Instagram | TwitterJoin our Email List: nosmallendeavor.com  See Privacy Policy: Privacy Policy  Amazon Affiliate Disclosure: Tokens Media, LLC is a participant in the Amazon Services LLC Associates Program, an affiliate advertising program designed to provide a means for sites to earn advertising fees by advertising and linking to Amazon.com. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

This is our unabridged interview with Malcolm Gladwell and Tracy K. Smith  To prepare for family dinners and political conversations this holiday season, two guests offer us new ways of being humble and curious.  First, well-known thinker and author Malcolm Gladwell reveals why we must learn humility if we are to understand each other. “Humility is a habit,” he says. “Habit is a really important word, because if it's a habit, it means it's something that you have to practice.” Then, former U.S. Poet Laureate Tracy K. Smith offers powerful poems that invite us to acknowledge the full, complex, and beautiful worth of the human beings we encounter.  In this episode, listen closely for multiple ways we can cultivate humility, be curious, and have compassion despite our disagreements and differences.  Show Notes  Resources mentioned this episode: "The Tipping Point: How Little Things Can Make a Big Difference" by Malcolm Gladwell  Similar NSE episodes:  Malcolm Gladwell: Becoming Malcolm  Tracy K. Smith and Marie Howe: Poetry as Politics  Thanksgiving Special: Conversation and Gratitude    Transcript of Abridged Episode    Want more NSE? JOIN NSE+ Today! Our subscriber only community with bonus episodes designed specifically to help you live a good life, ad-free listening, and discounts on live shows  Subscribe to episodes: Apple | Spotify | Amazon | Google | YouTubeFollow Us: Instagram | Twitter | Facebook | YouTubeFollow Lee: Instagram | TwitterJoin our Email List: nosmallendeavor.com  See Privacy Policy: Privacy Policy  Amazon Affiliate Disclosure: Tokens Media, LLC is a participant in the Amazon Services LLC Associates Program, an affiliate advertising program designed to provide a means for sites to earn advertising fees by advertising and linking to Amazon.com. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

To prepare for family dinners and political conversations this holiday season, two guests offer us new ways of being humble and curious.  First, well-known thinker and author Malcolm Gladwell reveals why we must learn humility if we are to understand each other. “Humility is a habit,” he says. “Habit is a really important word, because if it's a habit, it means it's something that you have to practice.” Then, former U.S. Poet Laureate Tracy K. Smith offers powerful poems that invite us to acknowledge the full, complex, and beautiful worth of the human beings we encounter.  In this episode, listen closely for multiple ways we can cultivate humility, be curious, and have compassion despite our disagreements and differences.  Show Notes  Resources mentioned this episode: "The Tipping Point: How Little Things Can Make a Big Difference" by Malcolm Gladwell  "Wade in the Water: Poems" by Tracy K. Smith  Similar NSE episodes:  Malcolm Gladwell: Becoming Malcolm  Tracy K. Smith and Marie Howe: Poetry as Politics  Thanksgiving Special: Conversation and Gratitude    Transcription Link    Want more NSE? JOIN NSE+ Today! Our subscriber only community with bonus episodes designed specifically to help you live a good life, ad-free listening, and discounts on live shows  Subscribe to episodes: Apple | Spotify | Amazon | Google | YouTubeFollow Us: Instagram | Twitter | Facebook | YouTubeFollow Lee: Instagram | TwitterJoin our Email List: nosmallendeavor.com  See Privacy Policy: Privacy Policy  Amazon Affiliate Disclosure: Tokens Media, LLC is a participant in the Amazon Services LLC Associates Program, an affiliate advertising program designed to provide a means for sites to earn advertising fees by advertising and linking to Amazon.com. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

This is our unabridged interview with Kathryn Gin Lum.  When is the last time you heard the word “heathen”? The word was originally used to delineate between European Christians who tended to be in urban centers and pagans in rural areas.   “Heathen exists in the mind of the person doing the labeling, right? It's a label that one people foists onto another.”  Our guest today, Kathryn Gin Lum, walks us through the history of the term heathen and how it has utterly shaped the world. We discuss her book Heathen: Religion and Race in American History. The idea behind the term was wielded as a weapon to justify colonization and enslavement, and though the term has fallen out of use, she says the mental map of the world it has created has not.  Show Notes  Resources mentioned this episode:  "Heathen: Religion and Race in American History" by Kathryn Gin Lum  "The Origin of Others (The Charles Eliot Norton Lectures)" by Toni Morrison  Similar NSE episodes:  Willie James Jennings: The Christian Imagination  Eugene Cho Karen Korematsu: Fear, Home and the Asian-American Experience    PDF of Lee's Interview Notes  Transcript of Abridged Interview    Want more NSE? JOIN NSE+ Today! Our subscriber only community with bonus episodes designed specifically to help you live a good life, ad-free listening, and discounts on live shows  Subscribe to episodes: Apple | Spotify | Amazon | Google | YouTubeFollow Us: Instagram | Twitter | Facebook | YouTubeFollow Lee: Instagram | TwitterJoin our Email List: nosmallendeavor.com  See Privacy Policy: Privacy Policy  Amazon Affiliate Disclosure: Tokens Media, LLC is a participant in the Amazon Services LLC Associates Program, an affiliate advertising program designed to provide a means for sites to earn advertising fees by advertising and linking to Amazon.com. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

When is the last time you heard the word “heathen”? The word was originally used to delineate between European Christians who tended to be in urban centers and pagans in rural areas.   “Heathen exists in the mind of the person doing the labeling, right? It's a label that one people foists onto another.”  Our guest today, Kathryn Gin Lum, walks us through the history of the term heathen and how it has utterly shaped the world. We discuss her book Heathen: Religion and Race in American History. The idea behind the term was wielded as a weapon to justify colonization and enslavement, and though the term has fallen out of use, she says the mental map of the world it has created has not.  Show Notes  Resources mentioned this episode:  "Heathen: Religion and Race in American History" by Kathryn Gin Lum  "The Origin of Others (The Charles Eliot Norton Lectures)" by Toni Morrison  Similar NSE episodes:  Willie James Jennings: The Christian Imagination  Eugene Cho and Karen Korematsu: Fear, Home and the Asian-American Experience    PDF of Lee's Interview Notes  Transcription Link    Want more NSE? JOIN NSE+ Today! Our subscriber only community with bonus episodes designed specifically to help you live a good life, ad-free listening, and discounts on live shows  Subscribe to episodes: Apple | Spotify | Amazon | Google | YouTubeFollow Us: Instagram | Twitter | Facebook | YouTubeFollow Lee: Instagram | TwitterJoin our Email List: nosmallendeavor.com  See Privacy Policy: Privacy Policy  Amazon Affiliate Disclosure: Tokens Media, LLC is a participant in the Amazon Services LLC Associates Program, an affiliate advertising program designed to provide a means for sites to earn advertising fees by advertising and linking to Amazon.com. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

This is our unabridged interview with Tim Shriver.  On social media and the news, the narrative told about humanity is often one of violence, division, and dehumanization. But is that really who we are?  Tim Shriver, best-selling author and chairman of the Special Olympics, doesn’t think so. “My view,” he says, “is that the versions of our lives that most of us lead most days are much more hopeful.”  As the nephew of John F. Kennedy, Tim has known great privilege and great grief. As an educator and social worker, he has seen the countless ways that humans defy stereotypes and give grace and hope to one another. In this episode, he talks about why his life and career have led him to the conclusion that the key to a happy life is to live it for the flourishing of others.  Show Notes  Resources mentioned this episode:  "Fully Alive: Discovering What Matters Most" by Tim Shriver  Tim's Website  "Need a Lift?" Podcast  Similar NSE episodes:  Greg Boyle: Cherished Belonging  Martin Sheen: Actor and Activist  Ben Cohen: Peace, Justice, Ice Cream    PDF of Lee's Interview Notes  Transcript of Abridged Episode    Want more NSE? JOIN NSE+ Today! Our subscriber only community with bonus episodes designed specifically to help you live a good life, ad-free listening, and discounts on live shows  Subscribe to episodes: Apple | Spotify | Amazon | Google | YouTubeFollow Us: Instagram | Twitter | Facebook | YouTubeFollow Lee: Instagram | TwitterJoin our Email List: nosmallendeavor.com  See Privacy Policy: Privacy Policy  Amazon Affiliate Disclosure: Tokens Media, LLC is a participant in the Amazon Services LLC Associates Program, an affiliate advertising program designed to provide a means for sites to earn advertising fees by advertising and linking to Amazon.com. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

On social media and the news, the narrative told about humanity is often one of violence, division, and dehumanization. But is that really who we are?  Tim Shriver, best-selling author and chairman of the Special Olympics, doesn’t think so. “My view,” he says, “is that the versions of our lives that most of us lead most days are much more hopeful.”  As the nephew of John F. Kennedy, Tim has known great privilege and great grief. As an educator and social worker, he has seen the countless ways that humans defy stereotypes and give grace and hope to one another. In this episode, he talks about why his life and career have led him to the conclusion that the key to a happy life is to live it for the flourishing of others.  Show Notes  Resources mentioned this episode:  "Fully Alive: Discovering What Matters Most" by Tim Shriver  Tim's Website  "Need a Lift?" Podcast  Similar NSE episodes:  Greg Boyle: Cherished Belonging  Martin Sheen: Actor and Activist  Ben Cohen: Peace, Justice, Ice Cream    PDF of Lee's Interview Notes  Transcription Link    Want more NSE? JOIN NSE+ Today! Our subscriber only community with bonus episodes designed specifically to help you live a good life, ad-free listening, and discounts on live shows  Subscribe to episodes: Apple | Spotify | Amazon | Google | YouTubeFollow Us: Instagram | Twitter | Facebook | YouTubeFollow Lee: Instagram | TwitterJoin our Email List: nosmallendeavor.com  See Privacy Policy: Privacy Policy  Amazon Affiliate Disclosure: Tokens Media, LLC is a participant in the Amazon Services LLC Associates Program, an affiliate advertising program designed to provide a means for sites to earn advertising fees by advertising and linking to Amazon.com. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

This is our unabridged interview with Philip Mangano.  Is homelessness a problem that can be solved?  Historically, efforts made to address homelessness in the US have taken a symptom-management approach, focusing on soup kitchens, clothing drives, and medical programs. But these well-intentioned efforts often have a paradoxical effect: over time, they end up serving more and more homeless people, rather than reducing the number of those unhoused.  In this episode, Philip Mangano describes his longtime effort to approach homelessness in a new way. “I took the abolitionist frame,” he says of his renowned Housing-First Initiative. “People were homeless, so the antidote must be a place to live.”  Show Notes  Resources mentioned this episode:  "The Tipping Point" by Malcolm Gladwell  "Good to Great" by Jim Collins  "The Innovator’s Dilemma" by Clayton Christensen  Similar NSE episodes:  Malcolm Gladwell: Becoming Malcolm  Charlie Strobel: Remembering a Life Well Lived  Musa al-Gharbi: We Have Never Been Woke  James Lawson: The Architect of the United States Civil Rights Movement    PDF of Lee's Interview Notes  Transcript of Abridged Episode    Want more NSE? JOIN NSE+ Today! Our subscriber only community with bonus episodes designed specifically to help you live a good life, ad-free listening, and discounts on live shows  Subscribe to episodes: Apple | Spotify | Amazon | Google | YouTubeFollow Us: Instagram | Twitter | Facebook | YouTubeFollow Lee: Instagram | TwitterJoin our Email List: nosmallendeavor.com  See Privacy Policy: Privacy Policy  Amazon Affiliate Disclosure: Tokens Media, LLC is a participant in the Amazon Services LLC Associates Program, an affiliate advertising program designed to provide a means for sites to earn advertising fees by advertising and linking to Amazon.com. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Is homelessness a problem that can be solved?  Historically, efforts made to address homelessness in the US have taken a symptom-management approach, focusing on soup kitchens, clothing drives, and medical programs. But these well-intentioned efforts often have a paradoxical effect: over time, they end up serving more and more homeless people, rather than reducing the number of those unhoused.  In this episode, Philip Mangano describes his longtime effort to approach homelessness in a new way. “I took the abolitionist frame,” he says of his renowned Housing-First Initiative. “People were homeless, so the antidote must be a place to live.”  Show Notes  Resources mentioned this episode:  "The Tipping Point" by Malcolm Gladwell  "Good to Great" by Jim Collins  "The Innovator’s Dilemma" by Clayton Christensen  Similar NSE episodes:  Malcolm Gladwell: Becoming Malcolm  Charlie Strobel: Remembering a Life Well Lived  Musa al-Gharbi: We Have Never Been Woke  James Lawson: The Architect of the United States Civil Rights Movement    PDF of Lee's Interview Notes  Transcription Link    Want more NSE? JOIN NSE+ Today! Our subscriber only community with bonus episodes designed specifically to help you live a good life, ad-free listening, and discounts on live shows  Subscribe to episodes: Apple | Spotify | Amazon | Google | YouTubeFollow Us: Instagram | Twitter | Facebook | YouTubeFollow Lee: Instagram | TwitterJoin our Email List: nosmallendeavor.com  See Privacy Policy: Privacy Policy  Amazon Affiliate Disclosure: Tokens Media, LLC is a participant in the Amazon Services LLC Associates Program, an affiliate advertising program designed to provide a means for sites to earn advertising fees by advertising and linking to Amazon.com. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

This is our unabridged interview with Christian Wiman.  “Suffering, I think, catalyzes an intimacy that couldn't happen otherwise.”  Christian Wiman, renowned poet and teacher at Yale Divinity School, does not say these words flippantly. Two decades ago, he was diagnosed with a rare form of cancer and given a life expectancy of five years. He has lived the past twenty years in the shadow of death and the grip of despair.  In this episode, while discussing his recent memoir “Zero at the Bone: Fifty Entries Against Despair,” Christian explores faith, doubt, joy, and sorrow in the way only a great poet can, taking the stuff of life - the mundane, confusing, chaotic, and tragic - and making meaning out of it.  Show Notes  Resources mentioned this episode: "Zero at the Bone" by Christian Wiman "My Bright Abyss" by Christian Wiman  Similar NSE episodes:  Christian Wiman: The Opposite of Faith is Certainty  Pádraig Ó Tuama: A Poet’s Work in Peace and Reconciliation  Clay Hobbs: The Wisdom of Numbering Your Days  Angela Williams Gorrell and Miroslav Volf: On Joy and Sorrow    Transcript of Abridged Episode   Want more NSE? JOIN NSE+ Today! Our subscriber only community with bonus episodes designed specifically to help you live a good life, ad-free listening, and discounts on live shows  Subscribe to episodes: Apple | Spotify | Amazon | Google | YouTubeFollow Us: Instagram | Twitter | Facebook | YouTubeFollow Lee: Instagram | TwitterJoin our Email List: nosmallendeavor.com  See Privacy Policy: Privacy Policy  Amazon Affiliate Disclosure: Tokens Media, LLC is a participant in the Amazon Services LLC Associates Program, an affiliate advertising program designed to provide a means for sites to earn advertising fees by advertising and linking to Amazon.com. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

“Suffering, I think, catalyzes an intimacy that couldn't happen otherwise.”  Christian Wiman, renowned poet and teacher at Yale Divinity School, does not say these words flippantly. Two decades ago, he was diagnosed with a rare form of cancer and given a life expectancy of five years. He has lived the past twenty years in the shadow of death and the grip of despair.  In this episode, while discussing his recent memoir “Zero at the Bone: Fifty Entries Against Despair,” Christian explores faith, doubt, joy, and sorrow in the way only a great poet can, taking the stuff of life - the mundane, confusing, chaotic, and tragic - and making meaning out of it.  Show Notes  Resources mentioned this episode: "Zero at the Bone" by Christian Wiman "My Bright Abyss" by Christian Wiman  Similar NSE episodes:  Christian Wiman: The Opposite of Faith is Certainty  Pádraig Ó Tuama: A Poet’s Work in Peace and Reconciliation  Clay Hobbs: The Wisdom of Numbering Your Days  Angela Williams Gorrell and Miroslav Volf: On Joy and Sorrow    Transcription Link   Want more NSE? JOIN NSE+ Today! Our subscriber only community with bonus episodes designed specifically to help you live a good life, ad-free listening, and discounts on live shows  Subscribe to episodes: Apple | Spotify | Amazon | Google | YouTubeFollow Us: Instagram | Twitter | Facebook | YouTubeFollow Lee: Instagram | TwitterJoin our Email List: nosmallendeavor.com  See Privacy Policy: Privacy Policy  Amazon Affiliate Disclosure: Tokens Media, LLC is a participant in the Amazon Services LLC Associates Program, an affiliate advertising program designed to provide a means for sites to earn advertising fees by advertising and linking to Amazon.com. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

This is our unabridged interview with Russell Moore and David French.  For the last decade of American political discourse, both the Left and the Right have each been developing fierce tribalism, in which it is increasingly costly for one to wage critique at one’s own group. Threats of canceling, doxing, and worse are everyday occurrences for those who speak out of step with their party.  Russell Moore and David French have been in the dangerous business of insider critique for a while. As conservative Christians, their criticism of the Right (specifically of Donald Trump) has cost them friends, careers, and safety.  In this episode, they discuss why they continue to do the work they do, offering insight on the landscape of politics and religion, and how we might re-frame the way we do discourse.  Show Notes  Resources mentioned this episode:  The After Party  "The After Party: Toward Better Christian Politics"  Similar NSE episodes:  Tim Alberta: The Kingdom, the Power, and the Glory  Kristin Du Mez Sits with David French  David French: Conservatism Without Trumpism  Russell Moore: Against, and For, the Tribe    PDF of Lee’s Interview Notes  Transcript of Abridged Episode   Want more NSE? JOIN NSE+ Today! Our subscriber only community with bonus episodes designed specifically to help you live a good life, ad-free listening, and discounts on live shows  Subscribe to episodes: Apple | Spotify | Amazon | Google | YouTubeFollow Us: Instagram | Twitter | Facebook | YouTubeFollow Lee: Instagram | TwitterJoin our Email List: nosmallendeavor.com  See Privacy Policy: Privacy Policy  Amazon Affiliate Disclosure: Tokens Media, LLC is a participant in the Amazon Services LLC Associates Program, an affiliate advertising program designed to provide a means for sites to earn advertising fees by advertising and linking to Amazon.com. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

For the last decade of American political discourse, both the Left and the Right have each been developing fierce tribalism, in which it is increasingly costly for one to wage critique at one’s own group. Threats of canceling, doxing, and worse are everyday occurrences for those who speak out of step with their party.  Russell Moore and David French have been in the dangerous business of insider critique for a while. As conservative Christians, their criticism of the Right (specifically of Donald Trump) has cost them friends, careers, and safety.  In this episode, they discuss why they continue to do the work they do, offering insight on the landscape of politics and religion, and how we might re-frame the way we do discourse.  Show Notes  Resources mentioned this episode:  The After Party  "The After Party: Toward Better Christian Politics"  Similar NSE episodes:  Tim Alberta: The Kingdom, the Power, and the Glory  Kristin Du Mez Sits with David French  David French: Conservatism Without Trumpism  Russell Moore: Against, and For, the Tribe    PDF of Lee’s Interview Notes  Transcription Link   Want more NSE? JOIN NSE+ Today! Our subscriber only community with bonus episodes designed specifically to help you live a good life, ad-free listening, and discounts on live shows  Subscribe to episodes: Apple | Spotify | Amazon | Google | YouTube Follow Us: Instagram | Twitter | Facebook | YouTube Follow Lee: Instagram | Twitter Join our Email List: nosmallendeavor.com  See Privacy Policy: Privacy Policy  Amazon Affiliate Disclosure: Tokens Media, LLC is a participant in the Amazon Services LLC Associates Program, an affiliate advertising program designed to provide a means for sites to earn advertising fees by advertising and linking to Amazon.com. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

This is our unabridged interview with Musa al-Gharbi.   Society has never been more focused on equality and diversity… right?  The last few decades have been marked by a drastic increase in what often gets labeled “social justice.” Companies and individuals perpetually take very public vows to defend progressive values and denounce all kinds of injustice. But somehow, in spite of all this, social and economic inequalities have only worsened. How is this possible?  “The fundamental tension,” argues Musa al-Gharbi, “is that while a lot of us are committed to social justice, we also really want to be elites.” Musa makes the case that an excess of public symbolic gestures has created a backwards world where justice is preached but rarely done, offering a sharp critique of the ways many of us, on all sides of politics and culture, have used social justice as a subtle way to serve ourselves.  Show Notes  Resources:  "We Have Never Been Woke" by Musa al-Gharbi  Similar NSE episodes:  Eboo Patel: Field Notes for Diverse Democracy  Patrick Deneen: Why Liberalism Failed  Ben Cohen and Jay Jakub: Ben and Jerry’s and a Better Capitalism  Christian Miller: We’re Not as Good (or Bad) as We Think We Are  PDF of Lee’s Interview Notes  Transcript of Abridged Episode  Want more NSE? JOIN NSE+ Today! Our subscriber only community with bonus episodes designed specifically to help you live a good life, ad-free listening, and discounts on live shows  Subscribe to episodes: Apple | Spotify | Amazon | Google | YouTubeFollow Us: Instagram | Twitter | Facebook | YouTubeFollow Lee: Instagram | TwitterJoin our Email List: nosmallendeavor.com  See Privacy Policy: Privacy Policy  Amazon Affiliate Disclosure: Tokens Media, LLC is a participant in the Amazon Services LLC Associates Program, an affiliate advertising program designed to provide a means for sites to earn advertising fees by advertising and linking to Amazon.com. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

***Vote for us to win a Signal Award. Society has never been more focused on equality and diversity… right?  The last few decades have been marked by a drastic increase in what often gets labeled “social justice.” Companies and individuals perpetually take very public vows to defend progressive values and denounce all kinds of injustice. But somehow, in spite of all this, social and economic inequalities have only worsened. How is this possible?  “The fundamental tension,” argues Musa al-Gharbi, “is that while a lot of us are committed to social justice, we also really want to be elites.” Musa makes the case that an excess of public symbolic gestures has created a backwards world where justice is preached but rarely done, offering a sharp critique of the ways many of us, on all sides of politics and culture, have used social justice as a subtle way to serve ourselves.  Show Notes  Resources mentioned:  "We Have Never Been Woke" by Musa al-Gharbi  Similar NSE episodes:  Eboo Patel: Field Notes for Diverse Democracy  Patrick Deneen: Why Liberalism Failed  Ben Cohen and Jay Jakub: Ben and Jerry’s and a Better Capitalism  Christian Miller: We’re Not as Good (or Bad) as We Think We Are  PDF of Lee’s Interview Notes  Transcription Link  Want more NSE? JOIN NSE+ Today! Our subscriber only community with bonus episodes designed specifically to help you live a good life, ad-free listening, and discounts on live shows  Subscribe to episodes: Apple | Spotify | Amazon | Google | YouTubeFollow Us: Instagram | Twitter | Facebook | YouTubeFollow Lee: Instagram | TwitterJoin our Email List: nosmallendeavor.com  See Privacy Policy: Privacy Policy  Amazon Affiliate Disclosure: Tokens Media, LLC is a participant in the Amazon Services LLC Associates Program, an affiliate advertising program designed to provide a means for sites to earn advertising fees by advertising and linking to Amazon.com. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

This is our unabridged interview with Carissa Carter & Scott Doorley. We live in an era of runaway design, where tech that seemed to solve our problems has gone on to cause unintended consequences. Think about social media’s effect on our collective mental health. Or the once miraculous material known as plastic becoming an environmental hazard. But we can’t predict the future, so what can we do? In this episode, designers from Stanford’s d.school, Carissa Carter & Scott Doorley, discuss their book “Assembling Tomorrow,” which thinks uniquely about design and offers ideas and practices for building and engaging with technology in a way that helps us flourish. Show Notes Resources: "Assembling Tomorrow" by Carissa Carter and Scott Doorley "The Technological Society" by Jacques Ellul Similar NSE episodes: Anna Lembke and John Mark Comer: The Price of the Pursuit of Pleasure Meghan O’Gieblyn: Will AI Destroy Humanity? David Brooks: Can We Save Society by Knowing Each Other? PDF of Lee’s Interview Notes Transcript of Abridged Episode Want more NSE? JOIN NSE+ Today! Our subscriber only community with bonus episodes designed specifically to help you live a good life, ad-free listening, and discounts on live shows Subscribe to episodes: Apple | Spotify | Amazon | Google | YouTubeFollow Us: Instagram | Twitter | Facebook | YouTubeFollow Lee: Instagram | TwitterJoin our Email List: nosmallendeavor.com See Privacy Policy: Privacy Policy Amazon Affiliate Disclosure: Tokens Media, LLC is a participant in the Amazon Services LLC Associates Program, an affiliate advertising program designed to provide a means for sites to earn advertising fees by advertising and linking to Amazon.com. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

We live in an era of runaway design, where tech that once seemed to solve all of our problems has gone on to cause unintended consequences. Think about social media’s effect on our collective mental health. Or the once miraculous material known as plastic becoming an environmental hazard. But we can’t predict the future, so what can we do?  In this episode, designers from Stanford’s d.school, Carissa Carter and Scott Doorley, discuss their book “Assembling Tomorrow,” which thinks quite uniquely about design and offers ideas and practices for building and engaging with technology in a way that helps us flourish.  Show Notes  Resources mentioned this episode:  "Assembling Tomorrow" by Carissa Carter and Scott Doorley  "The Technological Society" by Jacques Ellul  Similar No Small Endeavor episodes:  Anna Lembke and John Mark Comer: The Price of the Pursuit of Pleasure  Meghan O’Gieblyn: Will AI Destroy Humanity?  David Brooks: Can We Save Society by Knowing Each Other?  PDF of Lee’s Interview Notes  Transcription Link Want more NSE? JOIN NSE+ Today! Our subscriber only community with bonus episodes designed specifically to help you live a good life, ad-free listening, and discounts on live shows Subscribe to episodes: Apple | Spotify | Amazon | YouTubeFollow Us: Instagram | Twitter | Facebook | YouTubeFollow Lee: Instagram | TwitterJoin our Email List: nosmallendeavor.com See Privacy Policy: Privacy Policy Amazon Affiliate Disclosure: Tokens Media, LLC is a participant in the Amazon Services LLC Associates Program, an affiliate advertising program designed to provide a means for sites to earn advertising fees by advertising and linking to Amazon.com. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

This is our unabridged interview with Greg Boyle.  How do you become truly loving? Father Greg Boyle teaches us to go to the margins. “You don't go to the margins to make a difference. You go so the folks at the margins make you different.”  In the 80s and 90s, the city of Los Angeles was ravaged by what is now known as the "decade of death," a period of unprecedented gang violence, peaking at 1000 killings in 1992 alone. It was in the midst of this that Greg Boyle became pastor of the poorest Catholic parish in the city, in order to live and work amongst gang members.  He started Homeboy Industries, now the largest gang-member rehabilitation program in the world. In this episode, he tells some breathtaking stories, offering wisdom from a life lived in community with those who society neglects.  Notes Resources: "Cherished Belonging" by Greg Boyle "Tattoos on the Heart" by Greg Boyle "Barking to the Choir" by Greg Boyle Homeboy Industries  Similar NSE episodes:  John Dear: Taking the Beatitudes Seriously  Curt Thompson: The Power of Being Known  Pádraig Ó Tuama: The Facts of Life  Transcript JOIN NSE+ Today! Our subscriber only community with bonus episodes, ad-free listening, and discounts on live shows Subscribe to episodes: Apple | Spotify | Amazon | Google | YouTubeFollow Us: Instagram | Twitter | Facebook | YouTubeFollow Lee: Instagram | TwitterJoin our Email List: nosmallendeavor.com See Privacy Policy: Privacy Policy Amazon Affiliate Disclosure: Tokens Media, LLC is a participant in the Amazon Services LLC Associates Program, an affiliate advertising program designed to provide a means for sites to earn advertising fees by advertising and linking to Amazon.com. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

How do you become truly loving? Father Greg Boyle teaches us to go to the margins. “You don't go to the margins to make a difference. You go so the folks at the margins make you different.”  In the 80s and 90s, the city of Los Angeles was ravaged by what is now known as the "decade of death," a period of unprecedented gang violence, peaking at 1000 killings in 1992 alone. It was in the midst of this that Greg Boyle became pastor of the poorest Catholic parish in the city, in order to live and work amongst gang members.  He started Homeboy Industries, now the largest gang-member rehabilitation program in the world. In this episode, he tells some breathtaking stories, offering wisdom from a life lived in community with those who society neglects.  Show Notes  Resources mentioned this episode:  "Cherished Belonging" by Greg Boyle  "Tattoos on the Heart" by Greg Boyle  "Barking to the Choir" by Greg Boyle  Homeboy Industries  Similar No Small Endeavor episodes:  John Dear: Taking the Beatitudes Seriously  Curt Thompson: The Power of Being Known  Pádraig Ó Tuama: The Facts of Life  Transcription Link  JOIN NSE+ Today! Our subscriber only community with bonus episodes, ad-free listening, and discounts on live shows  Subscribe to episodes: Apple | Spotify | Amazon | Google | YouTube Follow Us: Instagram | Twitter | Facebook | YouTube Follow Lee: Instagram | Twitter Join our Email List: nosmallendeavor.com  See Privacy Policy: Privacy Policy  Amazon Affiliate Disclosure: Tokens Media, LLC is a participant in the Amazon Services LLC Associates Program, an affiliate advertising program designed to provide a means for sites to earn advertising fees by advertising and linking to Amazon.com. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

This is our unabridged interview with Meghan O’Gieblyn. Will technology change what it means to be human? Thanks to the rise and implementation of Artificial Intelligence (AI), the common sci-fi trope of a machine-perpetuated apocalypse has taken on a new gravity in recent days. But is Chat GPT really going to rebel against humans, or even change things very much at all? “We're at the point where we do have technologies that are incredibly powerful,” says writer and commentator Meghan O’Gieblyn. “They're able to do things that they weren't programmed to do.” In this episode, Meghan discusses AI in great detail, and lays out what she believes to be the social, political, ethical, and even theological issues at stake as humanity learns to live with new technology. Show Notes Resources: Meghan’s Website 'God, Human, Animal, Machine' by Meghan O’Gieblyn Similar NSE Episodes: The Price of the Pursuit of Pleasure: Anna Lembke The Most Polarized Issue in the United States: Katharine Hayhoe Beyond Fake News: Justin McBrayer PDF of Lee's Interview Notes Transcript of Abridged Episode JOIN NSE+ Today! Our subscriber only community with bonus episodes, ad-free listening, and discounts on live shows Subscribe to episodes: Apple | Spotify | Amazon | Google | YouTube Follow Us: Instagram | Twitter | Facebook | YouTube Follow Lee: Instagram | Twitter Join our Email List: nosmallendeavor.com See Privacy Policy: Privacy Policy Amazon Affiliate Disclosure: Tokens Media, LLC is a participant in the Amazon Services LLC Associates Program, an affiliate advertising program designed to provide a means for sites to earn advertising fees by advertising and linking to Amazon.com. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Will technology change what it means to be human? Thanks to the rise and implementation of Artificial Intelligence (AI), the common sci-fi trope of a machine-perpetuated apocalypse has taken on a new gravity in recent days. But is Chat GPT really going to rebel against humans, or even change things very much at all? “We're at the point where we do have technologies that are incredibly powerful,” says writer and commentator Meghan O’Gieblyn. “They're able to do things that they weren't programmed to do.” In this episode, Meghan discusses AI in great detail, and lays out what she believes to be the social, political, ethical, and even theological issues at stake as humanity learns to live with new technology. Show Notes Resources mentioned this episode: Meghan’s Website 'God, Human, Animal, Machine' by Meghan O’Gieblyn Similar No Small Endeavor episodes: The Price of the Pursuit of Pleasure: Anna Lembke The Most Polarized Issue in the United States: Katharine Hayhoe Beyond Fake News: Justin McBrayer PDF of Lee's Interview Notes Transcription Link JOIN NSE+ Today! Our subscriber only community with bonus episodes, ad-free listening, and discounts on live shows Subscribe to episodes: Apple | Spotify | Amazon | Google | YouTubeFollow Us: Instagram | Twitter | Facebook | YouTubeFollow Lee: Instagram | TwitterJoin our Email List: nosmallendeavor.com See Privacy Policy: Privacy Policy Amazon Affiliate Disclosure: Tokens Media, LLC is a participant in the Amazon Services LLC Associates Program, an affiliate advertising program designed to provide a means for sites to earn advertising fees by advertising and linking to Amazon.com. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

This is our unabridged interview with Ayana Elizabeth Johnson. How can you respond to climate change with joy? Those two words—climate change—can fill us with a sense of dread, anxiety, and doom. Those advocating action are often fueled by a sense of breakneck urgency. But for many, such an outlook isn’t motivating. It’s paralyzing. But what if there was another way filled with joy and satisfaction? “This is the work of our lifetime,” says Ayana Elizabeth Johnson, “so why don't we find ways to make it delightful?” In this episode, she explains why the climate crisis is no less dire than the news makes it seem, but why climate activism must be done with hope and joy to be sustainable. Show Notes Resources mentioned this episode: "What If We Get It Right" by Ayana Elizabeth Johnson  GetItRight.Earth Similar No Small Endeavor episodes: Debra Reinstra: Healing the Earth Bill McKibben: The Flag, the Cross, and the Station Wagon Katharine Hayhoe: The Most Polarized Issue in the United States PDF of Lee’s Interview Notes Transcript of Abridged Episode JOIN NSE+ Today! Our subscriber only community with bonus episodes, ad-free listening, and discounts on live shows Subscribe to episodes: Apple | Spotify | Amazon | Google | YouTubeFollow Us: Instagram | Twitter | Facebook | YouTubeFollow Lee: Instagram | TwitterJoin our Email List: nosmallendeavor.com See Privacy Policy: Privacy Policy Amazon Affiliate Disclosure: Tokens Media, LLC is a participant in the Amazon Services LLC Associates Program, an affiliate advertising program designed to provide a means for sites to earn advertising fees by advertising and linking to Amazon.com. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

How can you respond to climate change with joy?  Those two words—climate change—can fill us with a sense of dread, anxiety, and doom. Those advocating action are often fueled by a sense of breakneck urgency. But for many, such an outlook isn’t motivating. It’s paralyzing. But what if there was another way filled with joy and satisfaction? “This is the work of our lifetime,” says Ayana Elizabeth Johnson, “so why don't we find ways to make it delightful?” In this episode, she explains why the climate crisis is no less dire than the news makes it seem, but why climate activism must be done with hope and joy to be sustainable. Show Notes Resources mentioned this episode: "What If We Get It Right" by Ayana Elizabeth Johnson  GetItRight.Earth Similar No Small Endeavor episodes: Debra Reinstra: Healing the Earth Bill McKibben: The Flag, the Cross, and the Station Wagon Katharine Hayhoe: The Most Polarized Issue in the United States PDF of Lee’s Interview Notes Transcription Link JOIN NSE+ Today! Our subscriber only community with bonus episodes, ad-free listening, and discounts on live shows Subscribe to episodes: Apple | Spotify | Amazon | Google | YouTubeFollow Us: Instagram | Twitter | Facebook | YouTubeFollow Lee: Instagram | TwitterJoin our Email List: nosmallendeavor.com See Privacy Policy: Privacy Policy Amazon Affiliate Disclosure: Tokens Media, LLC is a participant in the Amazon Services LLC Associates Program, an affiliate advertising program designed to provide a means for sites to earn advertising fees by advertising and linking to Amazon.com. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

This is our unabridged interview with Edith Hall. What if you’re wrong about what it means to be happy? In spite of unprecedented access to things that give pleasure - buy this pill, eat this food, go on this trip - mental health issues are increasing globally at an astonishing rate. It’s clear that the modern idea of happiness is lacking something. In this episode, Edith Hall offers an ancient definition of happiness from Aristotle that might just be the solution to our crisis of despair. “It’s a way of life, it's not a psychological state,” she says. “To live well…submit yourself to your own best self, and don't let transient temptations derail you.” Show Notes: Resources mentioned this episode: Aristotle’s Way by Edith Hall Similar No Small Endeavor episodes: Jeffrey Rosen: The Pursuit of Happiness Meghan Sullivan: What It Takes to Live a Good Life Gretchen Rubin: The Happiness Project Rebecca DeYoung: The Seven Deadly Sins Dacher Keltner: How Awe Will Transform Your Life PDF of Lee’s Interview Notes Transcript of Abridged Episode JOIN NSE+ Today! Our subscriber only community with bonus episodes, ad-free listening, and discounts on live shows Subscribe to episodes: Apple | Spotify | Amazon | Google | YouTubeFollow Us: Instagram | Twitter | Facebook | YouTubeFollow Lee: Instagram | TwitterJoin our Email List: nosmallendeavor.com See Privacy Policy: Privacy Policy Amazon Affiliate Disclosure: Tokens Media, LLC is a participant in the Amazon Services LLC Associates Program, an affiliate advertising program designed to provide a means for sites to earn advertising fees by advertising and linking to Amazon.com. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

What if you’re wrong about what it means to be happy? In spite of unprecedented access to things that give pleasure - buy this pill, eat this food, go on this trip - mental health issues are increasing globally at an astonishing rate. It’s clear that the modern idea of happiness is lacking something. In this episode, Edith Hall offers an ancient definition of happiness from Aristotle that might just be the solution to our crisis of despair. “It’s a way of life, it's not a psychological state,” she says. “To live well…submit yourself to your own best self, and don't let transient temptations derail you.” Show Notes: Resources mentioned this episode: Aristotle’s Way by Edith Hall Similar No Small Endeavor episodes: Jeffrey Rosen: The Pursuit of Happiness Meghan Sullivan: What It Takes to Live a Good Life Gretchen Rubin: The Happiness Project Rebecca DeYoung: The Seven Deadly Sins Dacher Keltner: How Awe Will Transform Your Life PDF of Lee’s Interview Notes Transcription Link JOIN NSE+ Today! Our subscriber only community with bonus episodes, ad-free listening, and discounts on live shows Subscribe to episodes: Apple | Spotify | Amazon | Google | YouTubeFollow Us: Instagram | Twitter | Facebook | YouTubeFollow Lee: Instagram | TwitterJoin our Email List: nosmallendeavor.com See Privacy Policy: Privacy Policy Amazon Affiliate Disclosure: Tokens Media, LLC is a participant in the Amazon Services LLC Associates Program, an affiliate advertising program designed to provide a means for sites to earn advertising fees by advertising and linking to Amazon.com. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

This is our unabridged interview with Cyntoia Brown Long. On August 7th, 2019, Cyntoia Brown Long was released from the Tennessee Prison for Women. It was 13 years after she had been sentenced to life without parole for the murder of a man to whom she had been sex-trafficked. In this special episode, Cyntoia tells an uncensored account of the great personal and systemic brokenness which led to her imprisonment, and the dramatic, at times hard-to-believe nature of the grace and providence which brought her to faith and ultimate release. Please be advised this episode contains details upsetting to some listeners, including references to sexual assault and trafficking. Additional resources are available at NO MORE. Show Notes Resources mentioned: "Free Cyntoia" by Cyntoia Brown Long The JFAM Foundation Similar NSE episodes: Emi Nietfeld: Acceptance Anthony Ray Hinton: An Innocent Man on Death Row Greg Boyle: Homeboys, Delight, Gladness Bill Haslam: Humility and the Art of Politics PDF of Lee’s Interview Notes Transcript for Abridged Episode  JOIN NSE+ Today! Our subscriber only community with bonus episodes, ad-free listening, and discounts on live shows Subscribe to episodes: Apple | Spotify | Amazon | Google | YouTubeFollow Us: Instagram | Twitter | Facebook | YouTubeFollow Lee: Instagram | TwitterJoin our Email List: nosmallendeavor.com See Privacy Policy: Privacy Policy Amazon Affiliate Disclosure: Tokens Media, LLC is a participant in the Amazon Services LLC Associates Program, an affiliate advertising program designed to provide a means for sites to earn advertising fees by advertising and linking to Amazon.com. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

On August 7th, 2019, Cyntoia Brown Long was released from the Tennessee Prison for Women. It was 13 years after she had been sentenced to life without parole for the murder of a man to whom she had been sex-trafficked. In this special episode, Cyntoia tells an uncensored account of the great personal and systemic brokenness which led to her imprisonment, and the dramatic, at times hard-to-believe nature of the grace and providence which brought her to faith and ultimate release. Please be advised this episode contains details upsetting to some listeners, including references to sexual assault and trafficking. Additional resources are available at NO MORE. Show Notes Resources mentioned: "Free Cyntoia" by Cyntoia Brown Long The JFAM Foundation Similar NSE episodes: Emi Nietfeld: Acceptance Anthony Ray Hinton: An Innocent Man on Death Row Greg Boyle: Homeboys, Delight, Gladness Bill Haslam: Humility and the Art of Politics PDF of Lee’s Interview Notes Transcription Link JOIN NSE+ Today! Our subscriber only community with bonus episodes, ad-free listening, and discounts on live shows Subscribe to episodes: Apple | Spotify | Amazon | Google | YouTubeFollow Us: Instagram | Twitter | Facebook | YouTubeFollow Lee: Instagram | TwitterJoin our Email List: nosmallendeavor.com See Privacy Policy: Privacy Policy Amazon Affiliate Disclosure: Tokens Media, LLC is a participant in the Amazon Services LLC Associates Program, an affiliate advertising program designed to provide a means for sites to earn advertising fees by advertising and linking to Amazon.com. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

This is our unabridged interview with Quincy Byrdsong. How are the world’s poor and oppressed affected by inequity in healthcare systems? In the United States, “health inequity started with slavery,” says Dr. Quincy Byrdsong, himself a longtime healthcare professional. Since slavery was abolished, health inequities have not gone away, but have become more complex and subtle. In this episode, Dr. Byrdsong discusses how such cases as the infamous Tuskegee syphilis trials have allowed racism and classism to persist in healthcare systems, and what might be done in response to such injustice. Show Notes Resources mentioned this episode: Tuskegee Syphilis Study Similar No Small Endeavor episodes: Andre Churchwell: Diversity, Virtue, Healthcare Willie James Jennings: The Christian Imagination Transcript of Abridged Episode JOIN NSE+ Today! Our subscriber only community with bonus episodes, ad-free listening, and discounts on live shows Subscribe to episodes: Apple | Spotify | Amazon | Google | YouTubeFollow Us: Instagram | Twitter | Facebook | YouTubeFollow Lee: Instagram | TwitterJoin our Email List: nosmallendeavor.com See Privacy Policy: Privacy Policy Amazon Affiliate Disclosure: Tokens Media, LLC is a participant in the Amazon Services LLC Associates Program, an affiliate advertising program designed to provide a means for sites to earn advertising fees by advertising and linking to Amazon.com. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

How are the world’s poor and oppressed affected by inequity in healthcare systems? In the United States, “health inequity started with slavery,” says Dr. Quincy Byrdsong, himself a longtime healthcare professional. Since slavery was abolished, health inequities have not gone away, but have become more complex and subtle. In this episode, Dr. Byrdsong discusses how such cases as the infamous Tuskegee syphilis trials have allowed racism and classism to persist in healthcare systems, and what might be done in response to such injustice. Show Notes Resources mentioned this episode: Tuskegee Syphilis Study Similar No Small Endeavor episodes: Andre Churchwell: Diversity, Virtue, Healthcare Willie James Jennings: The Christian Imagination Transcription Link JOIN NSE+ Today! Our subscriber only community with bonus episodes, ad-free listening, and discounts on live shows Subscribe to episodes: Apple | Spotify | Amazon | Google | YouTubeFollow Us: Instagram | Twitter | Facebook | YouTubeFollow Lee: Instagram | TwitterJoin our Email List: nosmallendeavor.com See Privacy Policy: Privacy Policy Amazon Affiliate Disclosure: Tokens Media, LLC is a participant in the Amazon Services LLC Associates Program, an affiliate advertising program designed to provide a means for sites to earn advertising fees by advertising and linking to Amazon.com. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

This is our unabridged interview with Jerry Mitchell. In the 1990s, investigative journalist Jerry Mitchell started working on a handful of closed murder cases from the Civil Rights Era which he believed were never brought to justice. Since then, Jerry’s work has led to 24 convictions in Civil Rights murder cases. In this episode, he tells some of the most jaw-dropping stories from his life’s work, from the discovery of sealed spy records which reveal government involvement in racial murder, to interviews with klansmen who made threats on his life. “Them trying to threaten me really made me more determined to do it than ever,” he says. “A life of fear is not worth living.” Show Notes Resources mentioned this episode: "Mississippi Burning" (1988) "Race Against Time: A Reporter Reopens the Unsolved Murder Cases of the Civil Rights Era" Similar No Small Endeavor episodes: Dr. Fred Gray: Doing Justice Alongside MLK and Rosa Parks Eddie Glaude: On James Baldwin’s America Robert Jones: White Too Long Transcript for Abridged Episode  JOIN NSE+ Today! Our subscriber only community with bonus episodes, ad-free listening, and discounts on live shows Subscribe to episodes: Apple | Spotify | Amazon | Google | YouTubeFollow Us: Instagram | Twitter | Facebook | YouTubeFollow Lee: Instagram | TwitterJoin our Email List: nosmallendeavor.com See Privacy Policy: Privacy Policy Amazon Affiliate Disclosure: Tokens Media, LLC is a participant in the Amazon Services LLC Associates Program, an affiliate advertising program designed to provide a means for sites to earn advertising fees by advertising and linking to Amazon.com. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

In the 1990s, investigative journalist Jerry Mitchell started working on a handful of closed murder cases from the Civil Rights Era which he believed were never brought to justice. Since then, Jerry’s work has led to 24 convictions in Civil Rights murder cases. In this episode, he tells some of the most jaw-dropping stories from his life’s work, from the discovery of sealed spy records which reveal government involvement in racial murder, to interviews with klansmen who made threats on his life. “Them trying to threaten me really made me more determined to do it than ever,” he says. “A life of fear is not worth living.” Show Notes Resources mentioned this episode: "Mississippi Burning" (1988) "Race Against Time: A Reporter Reopens the Unsolved Murder Cases of the Civil Rights Era" Similar No Small Endeavor episodes: Dr. Fred Gray: Doing Justice Alongside MLK and Rosa Parks Eddie Glaude: On James Baldwin’s America Robert Jones: White Too Long Transcription Link  JOIN NSE+ Today! Our subscriber only community with bonus episodes, ad-free listening, and discounts on live shows Subscribe to episodes: Apple | Spotify | Amazon | Google | YouTubeFollow Us: Instagram | Twitter | Facebook | YouTubeFollow Lee: Instagram | TwitterJoin our Email List: nosmallendeavor.com See Privacy Policy: Privacy Policy Amazon Affiliate Disclosure: Tokens Media, LLC is a participant in the Amazon Services LLC Associates Program, an affiliate advertising program designed to provide a means for sites to earn advertising fees by advertising and linking to Amazon.com. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

This is our unabridged episode with Clay Hobbs. What if you knew you had one year left to live? With just 365 days left on earth, how would you spend them?  After a terminal cancer diagnosis, host Lee C. Camp’s friend Clay Hobbs was faced with this exact question. Doctors estimated he would die before the year was out, and Clay took them literally. He chose a date, marked it on a calendar, and began planning accordingly.  In today’s intimate episode, Lee shares several conversations with Clay in the last year of his life. The friends discuss coming to terms with a terminal diagnosis, saying goodbye, and how the practice of facing death may help us all lead more intentional lives. Show Notes Resources mentioned this episode: On Death And Dying - Elisabeth Kübler-Ross Rapt: Attention and the Focused Life - Winifred Gallagher Similar No Small Endeavor episodes: Oliver Burkeman: Time Management for Mortals Burying 250 Friends: Greg Boyle on Community Amidst Gang Violence  The Opposite of Faith is Certainty: Christian Wiman Dacher Keltner: How Awe Will Transform Your Life Transcript for Abridged Episode JOIN NSE+ Today! Our subscriber only community with bonus episodes, ad-free listening, and discounts on live shows Subscribe to episodes: Apple | Spotify | Amazon | Google | YouTubeFollow Us: Instagram | Twitter | Facebook | YouTubeFollow Lee: Instagram | TwitterJoin our Email List: nosmallendeavor.com See Privacy Policy: Privacy Policy Amazon Affiliate Disclosure: Tokens Media, LLC is a participant in the Amazon Services LLC Associates Program, an affiliate advertising program designed to provide a means for sites to earn advertising fees by advertising and linking to Amazon.com. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

What if you knew you had one year left to live? With just 365 days left on earth, how would you spend them?  After a terminal cancer diagnosis, host Lee C. Camp’s friend Clay Hobbs was faced with this exact question. Doctors estimated he would die before the year was out, and Clay took them literally. He chose a date, marked it on a calendar, and began planning accordingly.  In today’s intimate episode, Lee shares several conversations with Clay in the last year of his life. The friends discuss coming to terms with a terminal diagnosis, saying goodbye, and how the practice of facing death may help us all lead more intentional lives. Show Notes Resources mentioned this episode: On Death And Dying - Elisabeth Kübler-Ross Rapt: Attention and the Focused Life - Winifred Gallagher Similar No Small Endeavor episodes: Oliver Burkeman: Time Management for Mortals Burying 250 Friends: Greg Boyle on Community Amidst Gang Violence  The Opposite of Faith is Certainty: Christian Wiman Dacher Keltner: How Awe Will Transform Your Life Transcription Link JOIN NSE+ Today! Our subscriber only community with bonus episodes, ad-free listening, and discounts on live shows Subscribe to episodes: Apple | Spotify | Amazon | Google | YouTubeFollow Us: Instagram | Twitter | Facebook | YouTubeFollow Lee: Instagram | TwitterJoin our Email List: nosmallendeavor.com See Privacy Policy: Privacy Policy Amazon Affiliate Disclosure: Tokens Media, LLC is a participant in the Amazon Services LLC Associates Program, an affiliate advertising program designed to provide a means for sites to earn advertising fees by advertising and linking to Amazon.com. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Our guest today says that for 50% of our lives, we are not paying attention to what we’re doing. In today’s fast-paced, technology-driven world, many of us are coming to terms with the fact that our capacity for paying attention is laughably weak. Our work, mental health, and relationships suffer because of it. But what if there was a tried-and-true way to change this, something like “push-ups for your brain?” Neuroscientist Amishi Jha has dedicated her career to studying this question, and the results are in. In this episode, she describes the practice of mindfulness meditation - why it can work for everyone (not just the spiritual folks), and how it only takes 12 minutes each day to reach one’s “Peak Mind.” Show Notes Resources mentioned this episode: Peak Mind by Amishi Jha Similar No Small Endeavor episodes: Naomi Shihab Nye: The Life Changing Benefits of Paying Attention Charles Duhigg: The Power of Habit Kristin Neff: The Power of Self-Compassion Dacher Keltner: How Awe Will Transform Your Life PDF of Lee’s Interview Notes Transcript for Abridged Episode JOIN NSE+ Today! Our subscriber only community with bonus episodes, ad-free listening, and discounts on live shows Subscribe to episodes: Apple | Spotify | Amazon | Google | YouTubeFollow Us: Instagram | Twitter | Facebook | YouTubeFollow Lee: Instagram | TwitterJoin our Email List: nosmallendeavor.com See Privacy Policy: Privacy Policy Amazon Affiliate Disclosure: Tokens Media, LLC is a participant in the Amazon Services LLC Associates Program, an affiliate advertising program designed to provide a means for sites to earn advertising fees by advertising and linking to Amazon.com. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Our guest today says that for 50% of our lives, we are not paying attention to what we’re doing. In today’s fast-paced, technology-driven world, many of us are coming to terms with the fact that our capacity for paying attention is laughably weak. Our work, mental health, and relationships suffer because of it. But what if there was a tried-and-true way to change this, something like “push-ups for your brain?” Neuroscientist Amishi Jha has dedicated her career to studying this question, and the results are in. In this episode, she describes the practice of mindfulness meditation - why it can work for everyone (not just the spiritual folks), and how it only takes 12 minutes each day to reach one’s “Peak Mind.” Show Notes Resources mentioned this episode: Peak Mind by Amishi Jha Similar No Small Endeavor episodes: Naomi Shihab Nye: The Life Changing Benefits of Paying Attention Charles Duhigg: The Power of Habit Kristin Neff: The Power of Self-Compassion Dacher Keltner: How Awe Will Transform Your Life PDF of Lee’s Interview Notes Transcription Link JOIN NSE+ Today! Our subscriber only community with bonus episodes, ad-free listening, and discounts on live shows Subscribe to episodes: Apple | Spotify | Amazon | Google | YouTubeFollow Us: Instagram | Twitter | Facebook | YouTubeFollow Lee: Instagram | TwitterJoin our Email List: nosmallendeavor.com See Privacy Policy: Privacy Policy Amazon Affiliate Disclosure: Tokens Media, LLC is a participant in the Amazon Services LLC Associates Program, an affiliate advertising program designed to provide a means for sites to earn advertising fees by advertising and linking to Amazon.com. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

This is our unabridged interview with Rabbi Shai Held. “I think part of what it means to live in an honest way with a religious tradition is to live with its ragged edges.” It’s not unusual to assume that one of religion's prime functions is to give us answers. But what if some of life’s hardest questions weren’t meant to be answered, but rather perpetually asked? In this episode, Rabbi Shai Held, author of the book, "Judaism is About Love: Recovering the Heart of Jewish Life,” exemplifies this possibility, engaging the messiness and joy of life with honest grappling. He argues that some Jews have internalized traditional anti-Jewish bias and he seeks to help recover what has been lost. He shows that love and grace are at the center of a good life. Show Notes Resources mentioned this episode: Judaism Is About Love by Shai Held Similar No Small Endeavor episodes: Amy-Jill Levine: A Jewish Take on Jesus Jesuitical: How Young Catholics See the World Miroslav Volf: A Theology of Joy Pete Enns and Jared Byas: The Bible for Normal People PDF of Lee’s Interview Notes Transcript for Abridged Episode JOIN NSE+ Today! Our subscriber only community with bonus episodes, ad-free listening, and discounts on live shows Subscribe to episodes: Apple | Spotify | Amazon | Google | YouTubeFollow Us: Instagram | Twitter | Facebook | YouTubeFollow Lee: Instagram | TwitterJoin our Email List: nosmallendeavor.com See Privacy Policy: Privacy Policy Amazon Affiliate Disclosure: Tokens Media, LLC is a participant in the Amazon Services LLC Associates Program, an affiliate advertising program designed to provide a means for sites to earn advertising fees by advertising and linking to Amazon.com. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

“I think part of what it means to live in an honest way with a religious tradition is to live with its ragged edges.” It’s not unusual to assume that one of religion's prime functions is to give us answers. But what if some of life’s hardest questions weren’t meant to be answered, but rather perpetually asked? In this episode, Rabbi Shai Held, author of the book, "Judaism is About Love: Recovering the Heart of Jewish Life,” exemplifies this possibility, engaging the messiness and joy of life with honest grappling. He argues that some Jews have internalized traditional anti-Jewish bias and he seeks to help recover what has been lost. He shows that love and grace are at the center of a good life. Show Notes Resources mentioned this episode: Judaism Is About Love by Shai Held Similar No Small Endeavor episodes: Amy-Jill Levine: A Jewish Take on Jesus Jesuitical: How Young Catholics See the World Miroslav Volf: A Theology of Joy Pete Enns and Jared Byas: The Bible for Normal People PDF of Lee’s Interview Notes Episode Transcript JOIN NSE+ Today! Our subscriber only community with bonus episodes, ad-free listening, and discounts on live shows Subscribe to episodes: Apple | Spotify | Amazon | Google | YouTubeFollow Us: Instagram | Twitter | Facebook | YouTubeFollow Lee: Instagram | TwitterJoin our Email List: nosmallendeavor.com See Privacy Policy: Privacy Policy Amazon Affiliate Disclosure: Tokens Media, LLC is a participant in the Amazon Services LLC Associates Program, an affiliate advertising program designed to provide a means for sites to earn advertising fees by advertising and linking to Amazon.com. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

This is our unabridged interview with Pete Enns and Jared Byas. “It was our curiosity about the Bible that is now leading to conclusions that are no longer welcome in these institutions.”Pete Enns and Jared Byas host The Bible for Normal People, a podcast which is loved by some, lambasted by others. They started it as a way to have honest conversations about the Bible, for folks both religious and non-religious -- conversations that cost them both previous jobs at religious institutions.In this episode, they discuss the complexity of the Bible, and what their work has taught them about courage, curiosity, humility, and the dangers of certainty. Show Notes Resources mentioned this episode: The Sin of Certainty by Pete Enns How the Bible Actually Works by Pete Enns Love Matters More by Jared Byas The Bible for Normal People PDF of Lee’s Interview Notes Transcript for Abridged Episode Similar No Small Endeavor episodes: Amy-Jill Levine: A Jewish Take on Jesus Jesuitical: How Young Catholics See the World N.T. Wright and the Bancroft Brothers: Theology and Poetry JOIN NSE+ Today! Our subscriber only community with bonus episodes, ad-free listening, and discounts on live shows Subscribe to episodes: Apple | Spotify | Amazon | Google | YouTubeFollow Us: Instagram | Twitter | Facebook | YouTubeFollow Lee: Instagram | TwitterJoin our Email List: nosmallendeavor.com See Privacy Policy: Privacy Policy Amazon Affiliate Disclosure: Tokens Media, LLC is a participant in the Amazon Services LLC Associates Program, an affiliate advertising program designed to provide a means for sites to earn advertising fees by advertising and linking to Amazon.com. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

“It was our curiosity about the Bible that is now leading to conclusions that are no longer welcome in these institutions.”Pete Enns and Jared Byas host The Bible for Normal People, a podcast which is loved by some, lambasted by others. They started it as a way to have honest conversations about the Bible, for folks both religious and non-religious -- conversations that cost them both previous jobs at religious institutions.In this episode, they discuss the complexity of the Bible, and what their work has taught them about courage, curiosity, humility, and the dangers of certainty. Show Notes Resources mentioned this episode: The Sin of Certainty by Pete Enns How the Bible Actually Works by Pete Enns Love Matters More by Jared Byas The Bible for Normal People PDF of Lee’s Interview Notes Transcription Link Similar No Small Endeavor episodes: Amy-Jill Levine: A Jewish Take on Jesus Jesuitical: How Young Catholics See the World N.T. Wright and the Bancroft Brothers: Theology and Poetry JOIN NSE+ Today! Our subscriber only community with bonus episodes, ad-free listening, and discounts on live shows Subscribe to episodes: Apple | Spotify | Amazon | Google | YouTubeFollow Us: Instagram | Twitter | Facebook | YouTubeFollow Lee: Instagram | TwitterJoin our Email List: nosmallendeavor.com See Privacy Policy: Privacy Policy Amazon Affiliate Disclosure: Tokens Media, LLC is a participant in the Amazon Services LLC Associates Program, an affiliate advertising program designed to provide a means for sites to earn advertising fees by advertising and linking to Amazon.com. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

This is our unabridged interview with Stanley Hauerwas (Part II). “This is my life. I want no other.” Time Magazine has recognized Stanley Hauerwas as the best theologian in America. But you don’t get that title by making everybody happy. Stanley's enigmatic personality is loved by some, lambasted by others. His dogged pacifism is laced with profanity. He’s a stereotypical Texan, but is a vocal opponent of gun ownership. Many think him to be a liberal, but he disavows liberalism. Others call him conservative, but his extreme dislike for evangelicalism and war-making dispute that claim. Wherever you're coming from, you're in for a disarmingly candid episode on one man's life in his own words, a life spent relentlessly seeking the nature of a good life. Show Notes: Resources mentioned this episode Hannah’s Child by Stanley Hauerwas John Dear NSE Interview PDF of Lee’s Interview Notes Transcript for Abridged Episode JOIN NSE+ Today! Our subscriber only community with bonus episodes, ad-free listening, and discounts on live shows Subscribe to episodes: Apple | Spotify | Amazon | Google | YouTubeFollow Us: Instagram | Twitter | Facebook | YouTubeFollow Lee: Instagram | TwitterJoin our Email List: nosmallendeavor.com See Privacy Policy: Privacy Policy Amazon Affiliate Disclosure: Tokens Media, LLC is a participant in the Amazon Services LLC Associates Program, an affiliate advertising program designed to provide a means for sites to earn advertising fees by advertising and linking to Amazon.com. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

This is our unabridged interview with Stanley Hauerwas (Part I). “This is my life. I want no other.” Time Magazine has recognized Stanley Hauerwas as the best theologian in America. But you don’t get that title by making everybody happy. Stanley's enigmatic personality is loved by some, lambasted by others. His dogged pacifism is laced with profanity. He’s a stereotypical Texan, but is a vocal opponent of gun ownership. Many think him to be a liberal, but he disavows liberalism. Others call him conservative, but his extreme dislike for evangelicalism and war-making dispute that claim. Wherever you're coming from, you're in for a disarmingly candid episode on one man's life in his own words, a life spent relentlessly seeking the nature of a good life. Show Notes: Resources mentioned this episode Hannah’s Child by Stanley Hauerwas John Dear NSE Interview PDF of Lee’s Interview Notes Transcript for Abridged Episode JOIN NSE+ Today! Our subscriber only community with bonus episodes, ad-free listening, and discounts on live shows Subscribe to episodes: Apple | Spotify | Amazon | Google | YouTubeFollow Us: Instagram | Twitter | Facebook | YouTubeFollow Lee: Instagram | TwitterJoin our Email List: nosmallendeavor.com See Privacy Policy: Privacy Policy Amazon Affiliate Disclosure: Tokens Media, LLC is a participant in the Amazon Services LLC Associates Program, an affiliate advertising program designed to provide a means for sites to earn advertising fees by advertising and linking to Amazon.com. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

“This is my life. I want no other.” Time Magazine has recognized Stanley Hauerwas as the best theologian in America. But you don’t get that title by making everybody happy. Stanley's enigmatic personality is loved by some, lambasted by others. His dogged pacifism is laced with profanity. He’s a stereotypical Texan, but is a vocal opponent of gun ownership. Many think him to be a liberal, but he disavows liberalism. Others call him conservative, but his extreme dislike for evangelicalism and war-making dispute that claim. Wherever you're coming from, you're in for a disarmingly candid episode on one man's life in his own words, a life spent relentlessly seeking the nature of a good life. Show Notes: Resources mentioned this episode Hannah’s Child by Stanley Hauerwas John Dear NSE Interview PDF of Lee’s Interview Notes Transcription Link  JOIN NSE+ Today! Our subscriber only community with bonus episodes, ad-free listening, and discounts on live shows Subscribe to episodes: Apple | Spotify | Amazon | Google | YouTubeFollow Us: Instagram | Twitter | Facebook | YouTubeFollow Lee: Instagram | TwitterJoin our Email List: nosmallendeavor.com See Privacy Policy: Privacy Policy Amazon Affiliate Disclosure: Tokens Media, LLC is a participant in the Amazon Services LLC Associates Program, an affiliate advertising program designed to provide a means for sites to earn advertising fees by advertising and linking to Amazon.com. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

This is our unabridged interview with Jeffrey Rosen. “In many ways, we're living in the founders’ nightmare,” says Jeffrey Rosen, president of the National Constitution Center. “All of the founders thought that we could not govern ourselves as a democracy unless we first achieved self-government as individuals.” For Independence Day, Rosen shares how the "pursuit of happiness" mentioned in the Declaration of Independence is defined differently than our contemporary notion of the word. It includes a life in pursuit of self-mastery as what would ensure our individual and collective flourishing. Jeffrey also discusses the goods of stoic philosophy and touts the practice of deep reading as a potential antidote to civic issues the U.S. is facing currently. Show Notes: Resources mentioned this episode The Pursuit of Happiness by Jeffrey Rosen We The People Podcast PDF of Lee’s Interview Notes Transcript for Abridged Episode JOIN NSE+ Today! Our subscriber only community with bonus episodes, ad-free listening, and discounts on live shows Subscribe to episodes: Apple | Spotify | Amazon | Google | YouTubeFollow Us: Instagram | Twitter | Facebook | YouTubeFollow Lee: Instagram | TwitterJoin our Email List: nosmallendeavor.com See Privacy Policy: Privacy Policy Amazon Affiliate Disclosure: Tokens Media, LLC is a participant in the Amazon Services LLC Associates Program, an affiliate advertising program designed to provide a means for sites to earn advertising fees by advertising and linking to Amazon.com. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

“In many ways, we're living in the founders’ nightmare,” says Jeffrey Rosen, president of the National Constitution Center. “All of the founders thought that we could not govern ourselves as a democracy unless we first achieved self-government as individuals.” For Independence Day, Rosen shares how the "pursuit of happiness" mentioned in the Declaration of Independence is defined differently than our contemporary notion of the word. It includes a life in pursuit of self-mastery as what would ensure our individual and collective flourishing. Jeffrey also discusses the goods of stoic philosophy and touts the practice of deep reading as a potential antidote to civic issues the U.S. is facing currently. Show Notes: Resources mentioned this episode The Pursuit of Happiness by Jeffrey Rosen We The People Podcast PDF of Lee’s Interview Notes Transcription Link  JOIN NSE+ Today! Our subscriber only community with bonus episodes, ad-free listening, and discounts on live shows Subscribe to episodes: Apple | Spotify | Amazon | Google | YouTubeFollow Us: Instagram | Twitter | Facebook | YouTubeFollow Lee: Instagram | TwitterJoin our Email List: nosmallendeavor.com See Privacy Policy: Privacy Policy Amazon Affiliate Disclosure: Tokens Media, LLC is a participant in the Amazon Services LLC Associates Program, an affiliate advertising program designed to provide a means for sites to earn advertising fees by advertising and linking to Amazon.com. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

This is our unabridged interview with Emi Nietfeld. “When I was 13, I went to the psych ward for the first time,” recalls Emi Nietfeld. After a childhood spent in manipulative therapy, institutional facilities, foster care, and even times of homelessness, Emi got into Harvard, and then went on to get a great job at Google. This is the classic American rags-to-riches story, of someone overcoming misery to find success and happiness, right? Not exactly. “Those perfect human interest stories are fictions,” she says. “We really do expect people to be perfect in a way that I knew I was not.” In this episode, the nuance of learning to accept one’s pain, and yet refusing to stand for it. ** Please be advised that this episode contains details that may be upsetting to some listeners including references to suicide, sexual assault, and disordered eating. ** Additional resources are available at:  SAMHSA National Sexual Violence Resource Center National Alliance for Eating Disorders Show Notes Resources mentioned this episode: Acceptance by Emi Nietfeld Quote from James Baldwin “Notes of a Native Son” PDF of Lee’s Interview Notes Transcript for Abridged Episode JOIN NSE+ Today! Our subscriber only community with bonus episodes, ad-free listening, and discounts on live shows Subscribe to episodes: Apple | Spotify | Amazon | Google | YouTubeFollow Us: Instagram | Twitter | Facebook | YouTubeFollow Lee: Instagram | TwitterJoin our Email List: nosmallendeavor.com See Privacy Policy: Privacy Policy Amazon Affiliate Disclosure: Tokens Media, LLC is a participant in the Amazon Services LLC Associates Program, an affiliate advertising program designed to provide a means for sites to earn advertising fees by advertising and linking to Amazon.com. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

“When I was 13, I went to the psych ward for the first time,” recalls Emi Nietfeld. After a childhood spent in manipulative therapy, institutional facilities, foster care, and even times of homelessness, Emi got into Harvard, and then went on to get a great job at Google. This is the classic American rags-to-riches story, of someone overcoming misery to find success and happiness, right? Not exactly. “Those perfect human interest stories are fictions,” she says. “We really do expect people to be perfect in a way that I knew I was not.” In this episode, the nuance of learning to accept one’s pain, and yet refusing to stand for it. ** Please be advised that this episode contains details that may be upsetting to some listeners including references to suicide, sexual assault, and disordered eating. ** Additional resources are available at:  SAMHSA National Sexual Violence Resource Center National Alliance for Eating Disorders Show Notes Resources mentioned this episode: Acceptance by Emi Nietfeld Quote from James Baldwin “Notes of a Native Son” PDF of Lee’s Interview Notes Transcription Link JOIN NSE+ Today! Our subscriber only community with bonus episodes, ad-free listening, and discounts on live shows Subscribe to episodes: Apple | Spotify | Amazon | Google | YouTubeFollow Us: Instagram | Twitter | Facebook | YouTubeFollow Lee: Instagram | TwitterJoin our Email List: nosmallendeavor.com See Privacy Policy: Privacy Policy Amazon Affiliate Disclosure: Tokens Media, LLC is a participant in the Amazon Services LLC Associates Program, an affiliate advertising program designed to provide a means for sites to earn advertising fees by advertising and linking to Amazon.com. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

This is our unabridged interview with Charles Duhigg. How do you form a good habit? How do you change a destructive one? “It's up to us to decide which…habits that we wish to embrace,” says Charles Duhigg, author of the longtime bestseller "The Power of Habit." In this episode, he explains how to tackle new and old habits in an empowering way.  Plus, Duhigg discusses his new book "Supercommunicators," in which he shares how to understand the type of conversation you're having with someone and how to show them your listening—hint, it’s not with your body language. Show Notes: Resources mentioned this episode The Power of Habit by Charles Duhigg Supercommunicators by Charles Duhigg PDF of Lee’s Interview Notes Transcript for Abridged Episode JOIN NSE+ Today! Our subscriber only community with bonus episodes, ad-free listening, and discounts on live shows Subscribe to episodes: Apple | Spotify | Amazon | Google | YouTubeFollow Us: Instagram | Twitter | Facebook | YouTubeFollow Lee: Instagram | TwitterJoin our Email List: nosmallendeavor.com See Privacy Policy: Privacy Policy Amazon Affiliate Disclosure: Tokens Media, LLC is a participant in the Amazon Services LLC Associates Program, an affiliate advertising program designed to provide a means for sites to earn advertising fees by advertising and linking to Amazon.com. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

How do you form a good habit? How do you change a destructive one? “It's up to us to decide which…habits that we wish to embrace,” says Charles Duhigg, author of the longtime bestseller "The Power of Habit." In this episode, he explains how to tackle new and old habits in an empowering way.  Plus, Duhigg discusses his new book "Supercommunicators," in which he shares how to understand the type of conversation you're having with someone and how to show them your listening—hint, it’s not with your body language. Show Notes: Resources mentioned this episode The Power of Habit by Charles Duhigg Supercommunicators by Charles Duhigg PDF of Lee’s Interview Notes Transcription Link JOIN NSE+ Today! Our subscriber only community with bonus episodes, ad-free listening, and discounts on live shows Subscribe to episodes: Apple | Spotify | Amazon | Google | YouTubeFollow Us: Instagram | Twitter | Facebook | YouTubeFollow Lee: Instagram | TwitterJoin our Email List: nosmallendeavor.com See Privacy Policy: Privacy Policy Amazon Affiliate Disclosure: Tokens Media, LLC is a participant in the Amazon Services LLC Associates Program, an affiliate advertising program designed to provide a means for sites to earn advertising fees by advertising and linking to Amazon.com. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

“​​We started the public desegregation of the nation,” says Reverend James Lawson, “and we did it without hating anybody.” In this episode, the man who Martin Luther King Jr. called friend, mentor, and the very conscience and architect of the Civil Rights Movement, Reverend James Lawson, discusses the United States’ past and present, and what it took to organize a whole population across the country to fight back without throwing a punch.  This episode is dedicated to the memory of Reverend Lawson, who passed away on June 9th 2024, at the age of 95. Show Notes: Resources mentioned this episode James Lawson Full Interview PDF of Lee’s Interview Notes Transcript for Juneteenth Special Episode JOIN NSE+ Today! Our subscriber only community with bonus episodes, ad-free listening, and discounts on live shows Subscribe to episodes: Apple | Spotify | Amazon | Google | YouTubeFollow Us: Instagram | Twitter | Facebook | YouTubeFollow Lee: Instagram | TwitterJoin our Email List: nosmallendeavor.com See Privacy Policy: Privacy Policy Amazon Affiliate Disclosure: Tokens Media, LLC is a participant in the Amazon Services LLC Associates Program, an affiliate advertising program designed to provide a means for sites to earn advertising fees by advertising and linking to Amazon.com. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Juneteenth celebrates the day that the final enforcement of the Emancipation Proclamation was given in Texas, officially making slavery illegal in the U.S. But what factors led to the worldview that condoned slavery in the first place, and how might those factors still be affecting the country today? Martin Luther King Jr.’s attorney Fred Gray discusses his work against segregation in the South, particularly in the Montgomery Bus Boycott. Yale professor Willie James Jennings describes the religious and cultural origins of racism. And James Lawson, considered by many as one of the architects of the civil rights movement, explains how he and other leaders came to believe that the only way to effectively desegregate the nation was through non-violent protest. Show Notes: Resources mentioned this episode James Lawson Full Interview Fred Gray Full Interview Willie James Jennings Full Interview The Christian Imagination by Willie James Jennings Bus Ride to Justice by Fred Gray PDF of Lee’s Interview Notes - Willie James Jennings PDF of Lee's Interview Notes - James Lawson Transcription Link  JOIN NSE+ Today! Our subscriber only community with bonus episodes, ad-free listening, and discounts on live shows Subscribe to episodes: Apple | Spotify | Amazon | Google | YouTubeFollow Us: Instagram | Twitter | Facebook | YouTubeFollow Lee: Instagram | TwitterJoin our Email List: nosmallendeavor.com See Privacy Policy: Privacy Policy Amazon Affiliate Disclosure: Tokens Media, LLC is a participant in the Amazon Services LLC Associates Program, an affiliate advertising program designed to provide a means for sites to earn advertising fees by advertising and linking to Amazon.com. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

What has the power to change our minds about the world? In John Blake’s case, it was a surprise encounter. “I knew I had a white mother,” says award-winning journalist John Blake. “Her name is Shirley, and her family hates black people… that's all I knew.” At age 17, John Blake’s father casually asked him if he’d like to meet his mother for the first time. Three days later, he found himself in the waiting room of a hospital. “The meeting is nothing that I expected,” he recalls. “It's incredibly shocking.” Today, Blake tells the story of his childhood, born in the sixties as the son of an interracial couple in Baltimore. His story sheds light on the history of racial prejudice in the United States, and offers wisdom about the ways in which we might find hope and healing in the midst of all kinds of struggle and hostility. Show Notes: Resources mentioned this episode More Than I Imagined by John Blake PDF of Lee’s Interview Notes Transcript for Abridged Episode JOIN NSE+ Today! Our subscriber only community with bonus episodes, ad-free listening, and discounts on live shows Subscribe to episodes: Apple | Spotify | Amazon | Google | YouTubeFollow Us: Instagram | Twitter | Facebook | YouTubeFollow Lee: Instagram | TwitterJoin our Email List: nosmallendeavor.com See Privacy Policy: Privacy Policy Amazon Affiliate Disclosure: Tokens Media, LLC is a participant in the Amazon Services LLC Associates Program, an affiliate advertising program designed to provide a means for sites to earn advertising fees by advertising and linking to Amazon.com. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

John Blake’s father was Black. The mother he never knew was white. The two met in Baltimore in the 60’s when interracial marriage was illegal. “I knew I had a white mother,” says the award-winning journalist. “Her name is Shirley, and her family hates black people… that's all I knew.”  At age 17, John Blake’s father casually asked him if he’d like to meet his mother for the first time. Three days later, he found himself in the waiting room of a hospital where he uncovered a long held family secret. “The meeting is nothing that I expected,” he recalls. “It's incredibly shocking.”  Today, Blake tells the story of his childhood shedding light on the history of racial prejudice in the United States. He offers wisdom about the ways in which we might find hope and healing in the midst of all kinds of struggle and hostility. Show Notes: Resources mentioned this episode More Than I Imagined by John Blake PDF of Lee’s Interview Notes Transcription Link JOIN NSE+ Today! Our subscriber only community with bonus episodes, ad-free listening, and discounts on live shows Subscribe to episodes: Apple | Spotify | Amazon | Google | YouTubeFollow Us: Instagram | Twitter | Facebook | YouTubeFollow Lee: Instagram | TwitterJoin our Email List: nosmallendeavor.com See Privacy Policy: Privacy Policy Amazon Affiliate Disclosure: Tokens Media, LLC is a participant in the Amazon Services LLC Associates Program, an affiliate advertising program designed to provide a means for sites to earn advertising fees by advertising and linking to Amazon.com. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

This is our unabridged interview with Naomi Shihab Nye. What do scientists and poets both agree on? On this show, we often host guests whose work is in scientific or concrete fields, such as psychology or sociology, which rely on experiments and research to come to helpful conclusions. But such conversations sometimes fall short of the wonder and beauty we experience in everyday life, and for such subjects, we turn to the poets. In this episode, award-winning poet Naomi Shihab Nye corroborates what researchers have confirmed—the benefits of paying attention. She shares abundant wisdom for living a good life through the lens of poetry. Her work has a quality that the best poetry has, that of paying rapt attention to small moments, making meaning and hope out of everyday wonders. Show Notes: Resources mentioned this episode Everything Comes Next by Naomi Shihab Nye PDF of Lee’s Interview Notes Transcript for Abridged Episode JOIN NSE+ Today! Our subscriber only community with bonus episodes, ad-free listening, and discounts on live shows Subscribe to episodes: Apple | Spotify | Amazon | Google | YouTubeFollow Us: Instagram | Twitter | Facebook | YouTubeFollow Lee: Instagram | TwitterJoin our Email List: nosmallendeavor.com See Privacy Policy: Privacy Policy Amazon Affiliate Disclosure: Tokens Media, LLC is a participant in the Amazon Services LLC Associates Program, an affiliate advertising program designed to provide a means for sites to earn advertising fees by advertising and linking to Amazon.com. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

What do scientists and poets both agree on? On this show, we often host guests whose work is in scientific or concrete fields, such as psychology or sociology, which rely on experiments and research to come to helpful conclusions. But such conversations sometimes fall short of the wonder and beauty we experience in everyday life, and for such subjects, we turn to the poets. In this episode, award-winning poet Naomi Shihab Nye corroborates what researchers have confirmed—the benefits of paying attention. She shares abundant wisdom for living a good life through the lens of poetry. Her work has a quality that the best poetry has, that of paying rapt attention to small moments, making meaning and hope out of everyday wonders. Show Notes: Resources mentioned this episode Everything Comes Next by Naomi Shihab Nye PDF of Lee’s Interview Notes Transcription Link JOIN NSE+ Today! Our subscriber only community with bonus episodes, ad-free listening, and discounts on live shows Subscribe to episodes: Apple | Spotify | Amazon | Google | YouTubeFollow Us: Instagram | Twitter | Facebook | YouTubeFollow Lee: Instagram | TwitterJoin our Email List: nosmallendeavor.com See Privacy Policy: Privacy Policy Amazon Affiliate Disclosure: Tokens Media, LLC is a participant in the Amazon Services LLC Associates Program, an affiliate advertising program designed to provide a means for sites to earn advertising fees by advertising and linking to Amazon.com. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

This is our unabridged interview with Kristin Neff. Is high self-esteem crucial to human flourishing, or, rather, a hindrance? “The biggest problem with self-esteem is that it tends to be contingent,” says Kristin Neff. “We only feel good about ourselves when we succeed.” Far too often, high self-esteem breeds narcissism, bullying, and prejudice. Kristin is a professor of Educational Psychology at the University of Texas at Austin. She’s also a prominent expert on the topic of self-compassion, which her research has found to be much more effective than self-esteem in helping people flourish. In this episode, she shares what makes self-compassion different from self-esteem, how to cultivate it, and how it can help us to flourish amidst stress, suffering, and everyday life. We also hear briefly from psychiatrist and author Curt Thompson illuminating the negative neurobiological effects of shame while Kristen explains how self compassion can remedy these effects. Show Notes: Similar episodes Tara Brach: Radical Acceptance Judith Moskowitz: How to Flourish Amidst Stress Alfie Kohn: Why You Shouldn’t Punish–or Reward–Your Kids Curt Thompson: The Soul of Shame Resources mentioned this episode Self-Compassion by Kristin Neff Fierce Self-Compassion by Kristin Neff Self-Compassion.org Why Self-Compassion Works Better than Self-Esteem PDF of Lee’s Interview Notes Transcript for Abridged Episode JOIN NSE+ Today! Our subscriber only community with bonus episodes, ad-free listening, and discounts on live shows Subscribe to episodes: Apple | Spotify | Amazon | Google | YouTube Follow Us: Instagram | Twitter | Facebook | YouTube Follow Lee: Instagram | Twitter Join our Email List: nosmallendeavor.com See Privacy Policy: Privacy Policy Amazon Affiliate Disclosure: Tokens Media, LLC is a participant in the Amazon Services LLC Associates Program, an affiliate advertising program designed to provide a means for sites to earn advertising fees by advertising and linking to Amazon.com. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Is high self-esteem crucial to human flourishing, or, rather, a hindrance? “The biggest problem with self-esteem is that it tends to be contingent,” says Kristin Neff. “We only feel good about ourselves when we succeed.” Far too often, high self-esteem breeds narcissism, bullying, and prejudice. Kristin is a professor of Educational Psychology at the University of Texas at Austin. She’s also a prominent expert on the topic of self-compassion, which her research has found to be much more effective than self-esteem in helping people flourish. In this episode, she shares what makes self-compassion different from self-esteem, how to cultivate it, and how it can help us to flourish amidst stress, suffering, and everyday life. We also hear briefly from psychiatrist and author Curt Thompson illuminating the negative neurobiological effects of shame while Kristen explains how self compassion can remedy these effects. Show Notes: Similar episodes Tara Brach: Radical Acceptance Judith Moskowitz: How to Flourish Amidst Stress Alfie Kohn: Why You Shouldn’t Punish–or Reward–Your Kids Curt Thompson: The Soul of Shame Resources mentioned this episode Self-Compassion by Kristin Neff Fierce Self-Compassion by Kristin Neff Self-Compassion.org Why Self-Compassion Works Better than Self-Esteem PDF of Lee’s Interview Notes Transcription Link JOIN NSE+ Today! Our subscriber only community with bonus episodes, ad-free listening, and discounts on live shows Subscribe to episodes: Apple | Spotify | Amazon | Google | YouTube Follow Us: Instagram | Twitter | Facebook | YouTube Follow Lee: Instagram | Twitter Join our Email List: nosmallendeavor.com See Privacy Policy: Privacy Policy Amazon Affiliate Disclosure: Tokens Media, LLC is a participant in the Amazon Services LLC Associates Program, an affiliate advertising program designed to provide a means for sites to earn advertising fees by advertising and linking to Amazon.com. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

This is our unabridged episode with Amy-Jill Levine. What happens when you get a self-dubbed “yankee Jewish feminist” talking about Jesus? Turns out, you get a fascinating conversation leaving folks of all faiths and worldviews with much to think about. Amy-Jill Levine is a brilliant professor of New Testament, and, perhaps surprisingly, a practicing Jew. In this episode, she uses her knowledge of Jewish culture to highlight common mis-readings of the Sermon on the Mount, Jesus’s stance on societal and gender norms, and how “Christian fragility” can impede one’s ability to address religious and social questions honestly. Show Notes: Similar episodes Amy-Jill Levine: Jewish, Yankee Feminist, New Testament Professor John Dear: Taking the Beatitudes Seriously N.T. Wright and the Bancroft Brothers: Theology and Poetry Jesuitical: How Young Catholics See the World Resources mentioned this episode Sermon on the Mount: A Beginners Guide to the Kingdom of Heaven by Amy-Jill Levine PDF of Lee’s Interview Notes Transcript for Abridged Episode JOIN NSE+ Today! Our subscriber only community with bonus episodes, ad-free listening, and discounts on live shows Subscribe to episodes: Apple | Spotify | Amazon | Google | YouTube Follow Us: Instagram | Twitter | Facebook | YouTube Follow Lee: Instagram | Twitter Join our Email List: nosmallendeavor.com See Privacy Policy: Privacy Policy Amazon Affiliate Disclosure: Tokens Media, LLC is a participant in the Amazon Services LLC Associates Program, an affiliate advertising program designed to provide a means for sites to earn advertising fees by advertising and linking to Amazon.com. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

What happens when you get a self-dubbed “yankee Jewish feminist” talking about Jesus? Turns out, you get a fascinating conversation leaving folks of all faiths and worldviews with much to think about. Amy-Jill Levine is a brilliant professor of New Testament, and, perhaps surprisingly, a practicing Jew. In this episode, she uses her knowledge of Jewish culture to highlight common mis-readings of the Sermon on the Mount, Jesus’s stance on societal and gender norms, and how “Christian fragility” can impede one’s ability to address religious and social questions honestly. Show Notes: Similar episodes Amy-Jill Levine: Jewish, Yankee Feminist, New Testament Professor John Dear: Taking the Beatitudes Seriously N.T. Wright and the Bancroft Brothers: Theology and Poetry Jesuitical: How Young Catholics See the World Resources mentioned this episode Sermon on the Mount: A Beginners Guide to the Kingdom of Heaven by Amy-Jill Levine PDF of Lee’s Interview Notes Transcription Link JOIN NSE+ Today! Our subscriber only community with bonus episodes, ad-free listening, and discounts on live shows Subscribe to episodes: Apple | Spotify | Amazon | Google | YouTube Follow Us: Instagram | Twitter | Facebook | YouTube Follow Lee: Instagram | Twitter Join our Email List: nosmallendeavor.com See Privacy Policy: Privacy Policy Amazon Affiliate Disclosure: Tokens Media, LLC is a participant in the Amazon Services LLC Associates Program, an affiliate advertising program designed to provide a means for sites to earn advertising fees by advertising and linking to Amazon.com. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

This is our unabridged interview with Angela Williams Gorrell. What is joy? Is it equatable with happiness, or pleasure, or both? Is it to be found in a career, or a romantic partner, or a religion? And if we were to manage it, would our lives forever be free from sorrow, pain, and suffering? In this episode, author and professor Angela Williams Gorrell, who was teaching a class on joy at Yale when she lost three people that she loved in a four-week span, describes her personal experience of finding joy amidst loss. Show Notes: Similar episodes Philip Yancey: Where the Light Fell Azim Khamisa: Ending Violence Through Forgiveness Kelly Corrigan: How Vulnerability Leads to Connection William Paul Young: Author of The Shack Christian Wiman: The Opposite of Faith is Certainty Resources mentioned this episode The Gravity of Joy by Angela Williams Gorrell The Epidemic of Despair PDF of Lee’s Interview Notes - Angela Williams Gorrell Link to Transcript for Abridged Episode JOIN NSE+ Today! Our subscriber only community with bonus episodes, ad-free listening, and discounts on live shows Subscribe to episodes: Apple | Spotify | Amazon | Google | YouTube Follow Us: Instagram | Twitter | Facebook | YouTube Follow Lee: Instagram | Twitter Join our Email List: nosmallendeavor.com See Privacy Policy: Privacy Policy Amazon Affiliate Disclosure: Tokens Media, LLC is a participant in the Amazon Services LLC Associates Program, an affiliate advertising program designed to provide a means for sites to earn advertising fees by advertising and linking to Amazon.com. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

What is joy? Is it equatable with happiness, or pleasure, or both? Is it to be found in a career, or a romantic partner, or a religion? And if we were to manage it, would our lives forever be free from sorrow, pain, and suffering? In this episode, two guests discuss joy, describing both what it is and, perhaps more importantly, what it is not. Author and professor Angela Williams Gorrell, who was teaching a class on joy at Yale when she lost three people that she loved in a four-week span, describes her personal experience of finding joy amidst loss. And Yale theologian Miroslav Volf, himself no stranger to suffering growing up in a war torn country, explains the connection between joy and sorrow. Show Notes: Similar episodes Philip Yancey: Where the Light Fell Azim Khamisa: Ending Violence Through Forgiveness Kelly Corrigan: How Vulnerability Leads to Connection William Paul Young: Author of The Shack Christian Wiman: The Opposite of Faith is Certainty Resources mentioned this episode The Gravity of Joy by Angela Williams Gorrell The Epidemic of Despair PDF of Lee’s Interview Notes - Angela Williams Gorrell Transcription Link JOIN NSE+ Today! Our subscriber only community with bonus episodes, ad-free listening, and discounts on live shows Subscribe to episodes: Apple | Spotify | Amazon | Google | YouTube Follow Us: Instagram | Twitter | Facebook | YouTube Follow Lee: Instagram | Twitter Join our Email List: nosmallendeavor.com See Privacy Policy: Privacy Policy Amazon Affiliate Disclosure: Tokens Media, LLC is a participant in the Amazon Services LLC Associates Program, an affiliate advertising program designed to provide a means for sites to earn advertising fees by advertising and linking to Amazon.com. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

This is our unabridged interview with Karen Korematsu. What is it like to be an Asian American? In light of the beginning of AAPI month, we present a re-airing of our episode from 2021 with Karen Korematsu and Eugene Cho, two Asian-Americans with unique stories of grief and hope. Karen Korematsu tells the story of her father Fred Korematsu, a famed Japanese-American civil rights activist who refused Franklin Roosevelt’s executive order to report to what FDR himself called “a concentration camp” on American soil shortly after the bombing of Pearl Harbor. Show Notes: Similar episodes Eugene Cho: Thou Shalt Not Be a Jerk Elise Hu: Obsessed with Beauty Resources mentioned this episode The Korematsu Institute PDF of Lee’s Interview Notes - Karen Korematsu Transcript of Abridged Episode JOIN NSE+ Today! Our subscriber only community with bonus episodes, ad-free listening, and discounts on live shows Subscribe to episodes: Apple | Spotify | Amazon | Google | YouTube Follow Us: Instagram | Twitter | Facebook | YouTube Follow Lee: Instagram | Twitter Join our Email List: nosmallendeavor.com See Privacy Policy: Privacy Policy Amazon Affiliate Disclosure: Tokens Media, LLC is a participant in the Amazon Services LLC Associates Program, an affiliate advertising program designed to provide a means for sites to earn advertising fees by advertising and linking to Amazon.com. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

What is it like to be an Asian American? In light of the beginning of AAPI month, we present a re-airing of our episode from 2021 with Karen Korematsu and Eugene Cho, two Asian-Americans with unique stories of grief and hope. Karen Korematsu tells the story of her father Fred Korematsu, a famed Japanese-American civil rights activist who refused Franklin Roosevelt’s executive order to report to what FDR himself called “a concentration camp” on American soil shortly after the bombing of Pearl Harbor. Eugene Cho discusses his experiences as a Korean-born American immigrant, and how we might learn to love our neighbors in the face of political polarization and racial discrimination. Show Notes: Similar episodes Eugene Cho: Thou Shalt Not Be a Jerk Elise Hu: Obsessed with Beauty Resources mentioned this episode Thou Shalt Not Be a Jerk by Eugene Cho The Korematsu Institute PDF of Lee’s Interview Notes - Eugene Cho PDF of Lee’s Interview Notes - Karen Korematsu Transcription Link JOIN NSE+ Today! Our subscriber only community with bonus episodes, ad-free listening, and discounts on live shows Subscribe to episodes: Apple | Spotify | Amazon | Google | YouTube Follow Us: Instagram | Twitter | Facebook | YouTube Follow Lee: Instagram | Twitter Join our Email List: nosmallendeavor.com See Privacy Policy: Privacy Policy Amazon Affiliate Disclosure: Tokens Media, LLC is a participant in the Amazon Services LLC Associates Program, an affiliate advertising program designed to provide a means for sites to earn advertising fees by advertising and linking to Amazon.com. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Today, we’re sharing a special episode from The Gist—hosted by Mike Pesca. Sir David King, formerly the UK's Government Chief Scientific Adviser, is now the Founder and Chair at Cambridge's Center for Climate Repair. He advocates carbon capture technology as part of the mix of solutions to climate change. Many environmentalists are not sold. Mike Pesca has established a seven-year connection to his audience as host of The Gist. For thirty minutes each day, Pesca challenges himself and his audience, in a responsibly provocative style, and gets beyond the rigidity and dogma. The Gist is surprising, reasonable, and willing to critique the left, the right, either party, or any idea. Listen to more episodes of The Gist and follow the podcast: https://pod.link/873667927 Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

This is our unabridged interview with Suzanne Stabile. What is the Enneagram, and how can it help us live a good life? “The unexamined life is not worth living,” said Socrates. But if that’s true, how are we to go about examining our lives, and what templates or metrics are we to use? One of the best places to start, suggests author and speaker Suzanne Stabile, is the ancient wisdom tool known as the Enneagram. What at first glance seems like a Myers-Briggs-esque personality test for grouping humanity into neat piles is actually a tool for observing our way of seeing and being in the world and helps us see that not everyone experiences the world in the same way. Using the Enneagram, she says, “I teach people who they're not. I don't teach people who they are.” In this episode, she gives an overview of the ways in which the Enneagram just might help us become more understanding, compassionate, holistic people. Show Notes: Similar episodes Ian Cron: Recovery, the Enneagram, and Being Human Tara Brach: Radical Acceptance David Brooks: Can We Save Society by Knowing Each Other? Kelly Corrigan: How Vulnerability Leads to Connection Resources mentioned this episode The Road Back to You by Suzanne Stabile and Ian Cron The Path Between Us by Suzanne Stabile The Enneagram Journey podcast Suzanne’s website PDF of Lee’s Interview Notes Transcript for Abridged Episode JOIN NSE+ Today! Our subscriber only community with bonus episodes, ad-free listening, and discounts on live shows Subscribe to episodes: Apple | Spotify | Amazon | Google | YouTube Follow Us: Instagram | Twitter | Facebook | YouTube Follow Lee: Instagram | Twitter Join our Email List: nosmallendeavor.com See Privacy Policy: Privacy Policy Amazon Affiliate Disclosure: Tokens Media, LLC is a participant in the Amazon Services LLC Associates Program, an affiliate advertising program designed to provide a means for sites to earn advertising fees by advertising and linking to Amazon.com. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

What is the Enneagram, and how can it help us live a good life? “The unexamined life is not worth living,” said Socrates. But if that’s true, how are we to go about examining our lives, and what templates or metrics are we to use? One of the best places to start, suggests author and speaker Suzanne Stabile, is the ancient wisdom tool known as the Enneagram. What at first glance seems like a Myers-Briggs-esque personality test for grouping humanity into neat piles is actually a tool for observing our way of seeing and being in the world and helps us see that not everyone experiences the world in the same way. Using the Enneagram, she says, “I teach people who they're not. I don't teach people who they are.” In this episode, she gives an overview of the ways in which the Enneagram just might help us become more understanding, compassionate, holistic people. Show Notes: Similar episodes Ian Cron: Recovery, the Enneagram, and Being Human Tara Brach: Radical Acceptance David Brooks: Can We Save Society by Knowing Each Other? Kelly Corrigan: How Vulnerability Leads to Connection Resources mentioned this episode The Road Back to You by Suzanne Stabile and Ian Cron The Path Between Us by Suzanne Stabile The Enneagram Journey podcast Suzanne’s website PDF of Lee’s Interview Notes Transcription Link JOIN NSE+ Today! Our subscriber only community with bonus episodes, ad-free listening, and discounts on live shows Subscribe to episodes: Apple | Spotify | Amazon | Google | YouTube Follow Us: Instagram | Twitter | Facebook | YouTube Follow Lee: Instagram | Twitter Join our Email List: nosmallendeavor.com See Privacy Policy: Privacy Policy Amazon Affiliate Disclosure: Tokens Media, LLC is a participant in the Amazon Services LLC Associates Program, an affiliate advertising program designed to provide a means for sites to earn advertising fees by advertising and linking to Amazon.com. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

This is our unabridged interview with Bill McKibben. “If we are to take heart from the really good things about American history, we have no choice but to reckon first with the dark sides of it,” says Bill McKibben, journalist, author, and activist. One of the most prominent of environmental activists and authors, McKibben also discusses racial justice, the economic impact of suburbanization, and the relation of the Christian church to social change in America. Show Notes: Similar episodes Katharine Hayhoe: The Most Polarized Issue in the United States Debra Rienstra: Healing the Earth Peter Harris: The Collapse of the Biosphere Chris Doran: Hope in the Age of Climate Change Resources mentioned this episode The Flag, the Cross, and the Station Wagon by Bill McKibben Bill McKibben Interview Notes JOIN NSE+ Today! Our subscriber only community with bonus episodes, ad-free listening, and discounts on live shows Subscribe to episodes: Apple | Spotify | Amazon | Google | YouTube Follow Us: Instagram | Twitter | Facebook | YouTube Follow Lee: Instagram | Twitter Join our Email List: nosmallendeavor.com See Privacy Policy Amazon Affiliate Disclosure: Tokens Media, LLC is a participant in the Amazon Services LLC Associates Program, an affiliate advertising program designed to provide a means for sites to earn advertising fees by advertising and linking to Amazon.com. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Believe it or not, a 2020 PEW study revealed that the most polarized issue in the US is climate change. How did we get here? How have the warnings of climate science been ignored by half the country? How serious is the climate problem, how immediate are the consequences, and what can regular people like us really do about it? In this episode, four voices discuss the subject from all angles. We hear from cognitive scientist John Cook on the history of climate misinformation, climate researcher Katharine Hayhoe on what the science is actually saying, theologian Debra Rienstra on the ways religion impacts climate-based decisions, and activist Bill McKibben on the ways we can help here and now. Show Notes: Similar episodes Katharine Hayhoe: The Most Polarized Issue in the United States Debra Rienstra: Healing the Earth Bill McKibben: The Flag, the Cross, and the Station Wagon Peter Harris: The Collapse of the Biosphere Chris Doran: Hope in the Age of Climate Change Resources mentioned this episode 2020 PEW Study on Climate Polarization The Flag, the Cross, and the Station Wagon by Bill McKibben Saving Us by Katharine Hayhoe Refugia Faith by Debra Rienstra John Cook Interview Notes Katharine Hayhoe Interview Notes Debra Rienstra Interview Notes Bill McKibben Interview Notes Transcription Link JOIN NSE+ Today! Our subscriber only community with bonus episodes, ad-free listening, and discounts on live shows Subscribe to episodes: Apple | Spotify | Amazon | Google | YouTube Follow Us: Instagram | Twitter | Facebook | YouTube Follow Lee: Instagram | Twitter Join our Email List: nosmallendeavor.com See Privacy Policy Amazon Affiliate Disclosure: Tokens Media, LLC is a participant in the Amazon Services LLC Associates Program, an affiliate advertising program designed to provide a means for sites to earn advertising fees by advertising and linking to Amazon.com. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

This is our unabridged interview with Pádraig Ó Tuama. What if, to be a peacemaker, one might have to wade into trouble and stir the waters oneself? What if, to be a theologian, one might have to leave some of the most troubling questions about God unanswered? What if, to be a poet, one might have to do away with flowery abstraction and accept the nitty-gritty of real life? Pádraig Ó Tuama, host of the podcast Poetry Unbound from On Being Studios, is all of these things - peacemaker, theologian, poet. In this episode, he shares beautiful and troubling stories from his peacemaking work in Northern Ireland, discusses why one must be ready to accept nuance as a condition for any fruitful outcome, and offers observations about the makings of a good life. Show Notes: Similar episodes John Dear: How to Be Nonviolent Michael T. McRay: I Am Not Your Enemy Poetry as Politics: Poet Laureates Tracy K. Smith and Marie Howe Azim Khamisa: Ending Violence Through Forgiveness Resources mentioned this episode "The Facts of Life" - Pádraig Ó Tuama Being Here by Pádraig Ó Tuama Sorry for Your Troubles by Pádraig Ó Tuama Readings from the Book of Exile by Pádraig Ó Tuama Poetry Unbound Corrymeela’s website PDF of Lee’s Interview Notes Link to Transcript for Abridged Episode JOIN NSE+ Today! Our subscriber only community with bonus episodes, ad-free listening, and discounts on live shows Subscribe to episodes: Apple | Spotify | Amazon | Google | YouTube Follow Us: Instagram | Twitter | Facebook | YouTube Follow Lee: Instagram | Twitter Join our Email List: nosmallendeavor.com See Privacy Policy: Privacy Policy Amazon Affiliate Disclosure: Tokens Media, LLC is a participant in the Amazon Services LLC Associates Program, an affiliate advertising program designed to provide a means for sites to earn advertising fees by advertising and linking to Amazon.com. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

What if, to be a peacemaker, one might have to wade into trouble and stir the waters oneself? What if, to be a theologian, one might have to leave some of the most troubling questions about God unanswered? What if, to be a poet, one might have to do away with flowery abstraction and accept the nitty-gritty of real life? Pádraig Ó Tuama, host of the podcast Poetry Unbound from On Being Studios, is all of these things - peacemaker, theologian, poet. In this episode, he shares beautiful and troubling stories from his peacemaking work in Northern Ireland, discusses why one must be ready to accept nuance as a condition for any fruitful outcome, and offers observations about the makings of a good life. Show Notes: Similar episodes John Dear: How to Be Nonviolent Michael T. McRay: I Am Not Your Enemy Poetry as Politics: Poet Laureates Tracy K. Smith and Marie Howe Azim Khamisa: Ending Violence Through Forgiveness Resources mentioned this episode "The Facts of Life" - Pádraig Ó Tuama Being Here by Pádraig Ó Tuama Sorry for Your Troubles by Pádraig Ó Tuama Readings from the Book of Exile by Pádraig Ó Tuama Poetry Unbound Corrymeela’s website PDF of Lee’s Interview Notes Transcription Link JOIN NSE+ Today! Our subscriber only community with bonus episodes, ad-free listening, and discounts on live shows Subscribe to episodes: Apple | Spotify | Amazon | Google | YouTube Follow Us: Instagram | Twitter | Facebook | YouTube Follow Lee: Instagram | Twitter Join our Email List: nosmallendeavor.com See Privacy Policy: Privacy Policy Amazon Affiliate Disclosure: Tokens Media, LLC is a participant in the Amazon Services LLC Associates Program, an affiliate advertising program designed to provide a means for sites to earn advertising fees by advertising and linking to Amazon.com. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

This is our unabridged interview with Azim Khamisa. How do you forgive the man who killed your son? In 1995, Azim Khamisa’s only son Tariq was shot and killed while delivering a pizza. The killer was a 14-year-old gang member named Tony Hicks, and due to a recent change of law in the state of California, Tony was tried as an adult and sentenced to 25 years to life in prison. But instead of responding with a call for outrage or revenge, Azim did the unthinkable: he forgave his son’s killer, and he fought for his release. “My interpretation of this tragedy was that there are victims at both ends of the gun,” he says. In this episode, he tells the full story of how he uses his experience to help end youth violence, even recruiting his son’s killer to join in the work. It is one of unimaginable grief, staunch faith, and unwavering compassion. Show Notes: Similar episodes Forgiving My Mother’s Murderer: Sharon Risher Burying 250 Friends: Greg Boyle on Community Amidst Gang Violence Resources mentioned this episode TKF’s website Azim’s website Azim’s TED Talk Email Azim: azim@azimkhamisa.com PDF of Lee’s Interview Notes Link to Transcript for Abridged Episode JOIN NSE+ Today! Our subscriber only community with bonus episodes, ad-free listening, and discounts on live shows Subscribe to episodes: Apple | Spotify | Amazon | Google | YouTube Follow Us: Instagram | Twitter | Facebook | YouTube Follow Lee: Instagram | Twitter Join our Email List: nosmallendeavor.com See Privacy Policy: Privacy Policy Amazon Affiliate Disclosure: Tokens Media, LLC is a participant in the Amazon Services LLC Associates Program, an affiliate advertising program designed to provide a means for sites to earn advertising fees by advertising and linking to Amazon.com. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

How do you forgive the man who killed your son? In 1995, Azim Khamisa’s only son Tariq was shot and killed while delivering a pizza. The killer was a 14-year-old gang member named Tony Hicks, and due to a recent change of law in the state of California, Tony was tried as an adult and sentenced to 25 years to life in prison. But instead of responding with a call for outrage or revenge, Azim did the unthinkable: he forgave his son’s killer, and he fought for his release. “My interpretation of this tragedy was that there are victims at both ends of the gun,” he says. In this episode, he tells the full story of how he uses his experience to help end youth violence, even recruiting his son’s killer to join in the work. It is one of unimaginable grief, staunch faith, and unwavering compassion. Show Notes: Similar episodes Forgiving My Mother’s Murderer: Sharon Risher Burying 250 Friends: Greg Boyle on Community Amidst Gang Violence Resources mentioned this episode TKF’s website Azim’s website Azim’s TED Talk Email Azim: azim@azimkhamisa.com PDF of Lee’s Interview Notes Transcription Link JOIN NSE+ Today! Our subscriber only community with bonus episodes, ad-free listening, and discounts on live shows Subscribe to episodes: Apple | Spotify | Amazon | Google | YouTube Follow Us: Instagram | Twitter | Facebook | YouTube Follow Lee: Instagram | Twitter Join our Email List: nosmallendeavor.com See Privacy Policy: Privacy Policy Amazon Affiliate Disclosure: Tokens Media, LLC is a participant in the Amazon Services LLC Associates Program, an affiliate advertising program designed to provide a means for sites to earn advertising fees by advertising and linking to Amazon.com. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

This is our unabridged interview with Dacher Keltner. “Brief doses…help your heart, your immune system, your stress, your reasoning, your relationships,” says psychologist and bestselling author Dacher Keltner. And believe it or not, he’s not describing some new miracle drug or medical treatment. He’s talking about the experience of awe. He defines awe as “the feeling we have when we encounter vast, mysterious things.” It’s something we all have experienced, but often talk about rather sheepishly. Dacher has spent considerable time seeking it out and studying it, and the results are in. In this episode, he shares his findings, and offers all the ways in which awe is a necessary component to a happy, healthy, flourishing life. Show Notes: Similar episodes Jennifer Wiseman: How Science Produces Wonder David Desteno: Can Religion Make You Happier? Judith Moskowitz: How to Flourish Amidst Stress Resources mentioned this episode Awe by Dacher Keltner AlanCowan.com Ming Kuo’s 21 pathways by which nature is good for one’s health Brian Sutton and Tammy Rogers performing “Nachstucke” PDF of Lee’s Interview Notes Transcript for Abridged Episode JOIN NSE+ Today! Our subscriber only community with bonus episodes, ad-free listening, and discounts on live shows Subscribe to episodes: Apple | Spotify | Amazon | Google | YouTube Follow Us: Instagram | Twitter | Facebook | YouTube Follow Lee: Instagram | Twitter Join our Email List: nosmallendeavor.com See Privacy Policy: Privacy Policy Amazon Affiliate Disclosure: Tokens Media, LLC is a participant in the Amazon Services LLC Associates Program, an affiliate advertising program designed to provide a means for sites to earn advertising fees by advertising and linking to Amazon.com. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

“Brief doses…help your heart, your immune system, your stress, your reasoning, your relationships,” says psychologist and bestselling author Dacher Keltner. And believe it or not, he’s not describing some new miracle drug or medical treatment. He’s talking about the experience of awe. He defines awe as “the feeling we have when we encounter vast, mysterious things.” It’s something we all have experienced, but often talk about rather sheepishly. Dacher has spent considerable time seeking it out and studying it, and the results are in. In this episode, he shares his findings, and offers all the ways in which awe is a necessary component to a happy, healthy, flourishing life. Show Notes: Similar episodes Jennifer Wiseman: How Science Produces Wonder David Desteno: Can Religion Make You Happier? Judith Moskowitz: How to Flourish Amidst Stress Resources mentioned this episode Awe by Dacher Keltner AlanCowan.com Ming Kuo’s 21 pathways by which nature is good for one’s health Brian Sutton and Tammy Rogers performing “Nachstucke” PDF of Lee’s Interview Notes Transcription Link JOIN NSE+ Today! Our subscriber only community with bonus episodes, ad-free listening, and discounts on live shows Subscribe to episodes: Apple | Spotify | Amazon | Google | YouTube Follow Us: Instagram | Twitter | Facebook | YouTube Follow Lee: Instagram | Twitter Join our Email List: nosmallendeavor.com See Privacy Policy: Privacy Policy Amazon Affiliate Disclosure: Tokens Media, LLC is a participant in the Amazon Services LLC Associates Program, an affiliate advertising program designed to provide a means for sites to earn advertising fees by advertising and linking to Amazon.com. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

This is our unabridged interview with Philip Yancey. What do we do with the painful parts of our life story? Anybody familiar with Philip Yancey’s work knows that it has cost him more than time to be a bestselling author and journalist. It has cost him a lifetime of pain, loss, and deep spiritual struggle. Philip intentionally waited until recently to write down his story to protect some of the people in it, but now in his seventies, he’s released “Where the Light Fell,” his memoir that shares all the messy details about growing and beyond - losing his father, childhood poverty, parental abuse, ruinous fundamentalist Christianity, militant atheism, a nearly fatal car accident, and more. In this episode he shares how he managed to come to new understanding in the face of suffering. “A writer really only has one gift,” says Philip Yancey, “and that's the gift of his or her own life.” Show Notes Similar episodes: William Paul Young: Author of The Shack Amy Grant: Fame, Vulnerability, and Staying Grounded Kelly Corrigan: How Vulnerability Leads to Connection Christian Wiman: The Opposite of Faith is Certainty Resources mentioned this episode: Where the Light Fell by Philip Yancey My Name is Asher Lev by Chaim Potok Soul Survivor by Philip Yancey PDF of Lee’s Interview Notes Transcript for Abridged Episode JOIN NSE+ Today! Our subscriber only community with bonus episodes, ad-free listening, and discounts on live shows Subscribe to episodes: Apple | Spotify | Amazon | Google | YouTube Follow Us: Instagram | Twitter | Facebook | YouTube Follow Lee: Instagram | Twitter Join our Email List: nosmallendeavor.com See Privacy Policy: Privacy Policy Amazon Affiliate Disclosure: Tokens Media, LLC is a participant in the Amazon Services LLC Associates Program, an affiliate advertising program designed to provide a means for sites to earn advertising fees by advertising and linking to Amazon.com. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

What do we do with the painful parts of our life story? Anybody familiar with Philip Yancey’s work knows that it has cost him more than time to be a bestselling author and journalist. It has cost him a lifetime of pain, loss, and deep spiritual struggle. Philip intentionally waited until recently to write down his story to protect some of the people in it, but now in his seventies, he’s released “Where the Light Fell,” his memoir that shares all the messy details about growing and beyond - losing his father, childhood poverty, parental abuse, ruinous fundamentalist Christianity, militant atheism, a nearly fatal car accident, and more. In this episode he shares how he managed to come to new understanding in the face of suffering. “A writer really only has one gift,” says Philip Yancey, “and that's the gift of his or her own life.” Show Notes Similar episodes: William Paul Young: Author of The Shack Amy Grant: Fame, Vulnerability, and Staying Grounded Kelly Corrigan: How Vulnerability Leads to Connection Christian Wiman: The Opposite of Faith is Certainty Resources mentioned this episode: Where the Light Fell by Philip Yancey My Name is Asher Lev by Chaim Potok Soul Survivor by Philip Yancey PDF of Lee’s Interview Notes Transcription Link JOIN NSE+ Today! Our subscriber only community with bonus episodes, ad-free listening, and discounts on live shows Subscribe to episodes: Apple | Spotify | Amazon | Google | YouTube Follow Us: Instagram | Twitter | Facebook | YouTube Follow Lee: Instagram | Twitter Join our Email List: nosmallendeavor.com See Privacy Policy: Privacy Policy Amazon Affiliate Disclosure: Tokens Media, LLC is a participant in the Amazon Services LLC Associates Program, an affiliate advertising program designed to provide a means for sites to earn advertising fees by advertising and linking to Amazon.com. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

This is our unabridged interview with Tara Brach. How do you accept yourself fully, just as you are? And if you did, would you ever grow? “Being at peace with how we are in the moment is the precondition to transformation,” says psychologist and meditation teacher Tara Brach. In this episode she provides us with a simple practice to find peace and transformation known by the acronym RAIN. “We have amazing potential to change some of the habits that cause ourselves or others harm,” she says, “but we won't be able to access that if we're at war with ourselves.” Hear Tara’s stories from a life of practicing mindfulness, putting on display the wisdom and healing that come from pausing to accept the world as it is. This episode contains a brief mention of disordered eating. If you are in need of support, contact the National Alliance for Eating Disorders at 1-866-662-1235 Show Notes Similar episodes: Kristin Neff: Self Compassion Curt Thompson: The Power of Being Known Suzanne Stabile: Enneagram Wisdom and Living Well William Paul Young: Author of The Shack Resources mentioned this episode Radical Acceptance by Tara Brach When Things Fall Apart by Pema Chodron RAIN meditation with Tara Brach Tonglen meditation with Pema Chodron PDF of Lee’s Interview Notes Transcript for Abridged Episode JOIN NSE+ Today! Our subscriber only community with bonus episodes, ad-free listening, and discounts on live shows Subscribe to episodes: Apple | Spotify | Amazon | Google | YouTube Follow Us: Instagram | Twitter | Facebook | YouTube Follow Lee: Instagram | Twitter Join our Email List: nosmallendeavor.com See Privacy Policy: Privacy Policy Amazon Affiliate Disclosure: Tokens Media, LLC is a participant in the Amazon Services LLC Associates Program, an affiliate advertising program designed to provide a means for sites to earn advertising fees by advertising and linking to Amazon.com. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

How do you accept yourself fully, just as you are? And if you did, would you ever grow?  “Being at peace with how we are in the moment is the precondition to transformation,” says psychologist and meditation teacher Tara Brach.  In this episode she provides us with a simple practice to find peace and transformation known by the acronym RAIN.  “We have amazing potential to change some of the habits that cause ourselves or others harm,” she says, “but we won't be able to access that if we're at war with ourselves.” Hear Tara’s stories from a life of practicing mindfulness, putting on display the wisdom and healing that come from pausing to accept the world as it is. This episode contains a brief mention of disordered eating. If you are in need of support, contact the National Alliance for Eating Disorders at 1-866-662-1235 Show Notes Similar episodes: Kristin Neff: Self Compassion Curt Thompson: The Power of Being Known Suzanne Stabile: Enneagram Wisdom and Living Well William Paul Young: Author of The Shack Resources mentioned this episode Radical Acceptance by Tara Brach When Things Fall Apart by Pema Chodron RAIN meditation with Tara Brach Tonglen meditation with Pema Chodron PDF of Lee’s Interview Notes Transcription Link JOIN NSE+ Today! Our subscriber only community with bonus episodes, ad-free listening, and discounts on live shows Subscribe to episodes: Apple | Spotify | Amazon | Google | YouTube Follow Us: Instagram | Twitter | Facebook | YouTube Follow Lee: Instagram | Twitter Join our Email List: nosmallendeavor.com See Privacy Policy: Privacy Policy Amazon Affiliate Disclosure: Tokens Media, LLC is a participant in the Amazon Services LLC Associates Program, an affiliate advertising program designed to provide a means for sites to earn advertising fees by advertising and linking to Amazon.com. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

This is our unabridged interview with Malcolm Gladwell. You may think you know Malcolm Gladwell. He is, after all, a New York Times bestselling author of “Outliers,” “The Tipping Point,” “Blink,” and other books. He’s the host of the wildly popular podcast “Revisionist History.” His work is heralded and his opinion asked by many folks on a wide array of issues. But what makes him so different that he has become one of the most successful journalists of our day? In this episode, Malcolm tells a host of stories - from receiving endorsement from his mother to cut class, to attending a Mennonite barn-raising with his mathematician father, to spending three days a week in Freudian therapy as a young adult - all which help explain how he became the wildly curious and unpinnable person that he is, bent on getting to the bottom of things. Show Notes Similar episodes: David Brooks: Can We Save Society by Knowing Each Other? Bill McKibben: The Flag, the Cross, and the Station Wagon Heather Holleman: The Art of Conversation Resources mentioned this episode: Outliers by Malcolm Gladwell Blink by Malcolm Gladwell The Tipping Point by Malcolm Gladwell Revisionist History Podcast Lee’s Interview Notes Transcript for Abridged Episode JOIN NSE+ Today! Our subscriber only community with bonus episodes, ad-free listening, and discounts on live shows Subscribe to episodes: Apple | Spotify | Amazon | Google | YouTube Follow Us: Instagram | Twitter | Facebook | YouTube Follow Lee: Instagram | Twitter Join our Email List: nosmallendeavor.com See Privacy Policy: Privacy Policy Amazon Affiliate Disclosure: Tokens Media, LLC is a participant in the Amazon Services LLC Associates Program, an affiliate advertising program designed to provide a means for sites to earn advertising fees by advertising and linking to Amazon.com. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

You may think you know Malcolm Gladwell. He is, after all, a New York Times bestselling author of “Outliers,” “The Tipping Point,” “Blink,” and other books. He’s the host of the wildly popular podcast “Revisionist History.” His work is heralded and his opinion asked by many folks on a wide array of issues. But what makes him so different that he has become one of the most successful journalists of our day? In this episode, Malcolm tells a host of stories - from receiving endorsement from his mother to cut class, to attending a Mennonite barn-raising with his mathematician father, to spending three days a week in Freudian therapy as a young adult - all which help explain how he became the wildly curious and unpinnable person that he is, bent on getting to the bottom of things. Show Notes Similar episodes: David Brooks: Can We Save Society by Knowing Each Other? Bill McKibben: The Flag, the Cross, and the Station Wagon Heather Holleman: The Art of Conversation Resources mentioned this episode: Outliers by Malcolm Gladwell Blink by Malcolm Gladwell The Tipping Point by Malcolm Gladwell Revisionist History Podcast PDF of Lee’s Interview Notes Transcription Link JOIN NSE+ Today! Our subscriber only community with bonus episodes, ad-free listening, and discounts on live shows Subscribe to episodes: Apple | Spotify | Amazon | Google | YouTube Follow Us: Instagram | Twitter | Facebook | YouTube Follow Lee: Instagram | Twitter Join our Email List: nosmallendeavor.com See Privacy Policy: Privacy Policy Amazon Affiliate Disclosure: Tokens Media, LLC is a participant in the Amazon Services LLC Associates Program, an affiliate advertising program designed to provide a means for sites to earn advertising fees by advertising and linking to Amazon.com. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

This is our unabridged interview with Tim Alberta. At No Small Endeavor, we try to talk about the things that really matter to people. Two such things - politics and religion - are notoriously tricky to discuss without generalizing, proselytizing, or stoking division. But in an election year, we can’t ignore a sub-group in the United States that is adamant about combining faith and nation: Christian Nationalists. In this episode, we called in Tim Alberta, author of “The Kingdom, the Power, and the Glory” and an expert for the job. He shares what it was like growing up around the movement, offers his criticism of a subculture he knows inside and out, and presents the clear and present danger of conflating religious identity with national identity. Show Notes Similar episodes: Kristin Du Mez: Jesus and John Wayne Kristin Du Mez Sits with David French David French: Conservatism without Trumpism Russell Moore: Against, and For, the Tribe Randall Balmer – name?  Link? Resources mentioned this episode: The Kingdom, the Power, and the Glory by Tim Alberta Jesus and John Wayne by Kristin Du Mez PDF of Lee’s Interview Notes Transcription Link for Abridged Episode JOIN NSE+ Today! Our subscriber only community with bonus episodes, ad-free listening, and discounts on live shows Subscribe to episodes: Apple | Spotify | Amazon | Google | YouTube Follow Us: Instagram | Twitter | Facebook | YouTube Follow Lee: Instagram | Twitter Join our Email List: nosmallendeavor.com See Privacy Policy: Privacy Policy Amazon Affiliate Disclosure: Tokens Media, LLC is a participant in the Amazon Services LLC Associates Program, an affiliate advertising program designed to provide a means for sites to earn advertising fees by advertising and linking to Amazon.com. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

At No Small Endeavor, we try to talk about the things that really matter to people. Two such things - politics and religion - are notoriously tricky to discuss without generalizing, proselytizing, or stoking division. But in an election year, we can’t ignore a sub-group in the United States that is adamant about combining faith and nation: Christian Nationalists. In this episode, we called in Tim Alberta, author of “The Kingdom, the Power, and the Glory” and an expert for the job. He shares what it was like growing up around the movement, offers his criticism of a subculture he knows inside and out, and presents the clear and present danger of conflating religious identity with national identity. Show Notes Similar episodes: Kristin Du Mez: Jesus and John Wayne Kristin Du Mez Sits with David French David French: Conservatism without Trumpism Russell Moore: Against, and For, the Tribe Randall Balmer – name?  Link? Resources mentioned this episode: The Kingdom, the Power, and the Glory by Tim Alberta Jesus and John Wayne by Kristin Du Mez PDF of Lee’s Interview Notes Transcription Link JOIN NSE+ Today! Our subscriber only community with bonus episodes, ad-free listening, and discounts on live shows Subscribe to episodes: Apple | Spotify | Amazon | Google | YouTube Follow Us: Instagram | Twitter | Facebook | YouTube Follow Lee: Instagram | Twitter Join our Email List: nosmallendeavor.com See Privacy Policy: Privacy Policy Amazon Affiliate Disclosure: Tokens Media, LLC is a participant in the Amazon Services LLC Associates Program, an affiliate advertising program designed to provide a means for sites to earn advertising fees by advertising and linking to Amazon.com. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

This is our unabridged interview with Eboo Patel. “Diversity is a treasure,” says President and Founder of Interfaith America Eboo Patel. But what does “diversity” really mean? The term is found these days in public discourse and political debate, in boardrooms and on athletic fields. But Eboo argues that the way it plays out in the United States often misses the point entirely: instead of honoring identity and leaving room for disagreement, we settle for a flattening of culture, calling it “diversity.” “Coherent doesn’t mean univocal,” says Eboo. “In a democracy, you actually get to articulate your identity.” In this episode, Eboo describes why we should treasure our differences - especially religious differences - rather than treat them as insignificant, and provides new ways to frame polarizing issues around religion, race, and politics. Show Notes Similar episodes: David Brooks: Can We Save Society by Knowing Each Other? Eddie Glaude: On James Baldwin’s America David Desteno: Can Religion Make You Happier? Kristin Du Mez Sits with David French Resources mentioned this episode We Need to Build by Eboo Patel Acts of Faith by Eboo Patel Interfaith America’s website PDF of Lee’s Interview Notes Transcript for Abridged Episode Subscribe to episodes: Apple | Spotify | Amazon | Stitcher | Google | YouTube Follow Us: Instagram | Twitter | Facebook | YouTube Follow Lee: Instagram | Twitter Join our Email List: nosmallendeavor.com Become a Member: Virtual Only | Standard | Premium See Privacy Policy: Privacy Policy Shop No Small Endeavor Merch: Scandalous Witness Course | Scandalous Witness Book |  Joy & the Good Life Course Amazon Affiliate Disclosure: Tokens Media, LLC is a participant in the Amazon Services LLC Associates Program, an affiliate advertising program designed to provide a means for sites to earn advertising fees by advertising and linking to Amazon.com. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

“Diversity is a treasure,” says President and Founder of Interfaith America Eboo Patel. But what does “diversity” really mean? The term is found these days in public discourse and political debate, in boardrooms and on athletic fields. But Eboo argues that the way it plays out in the United States often misses the point entirely: instead of honoring identity and leaving room for disagreement, we settle for a flattening of culture, calling it “diversity.” “Coherent doesn’t mean univocal,” says Eboo. “In a democracy, you actually get to articulate your identity.” In this episode, Eboo describes why we should treasure our differences - especially religious differences - rather than treat them as insignificant, and provides new ways to frame polarizing issues around religion, race, and politics. Show Notes Similar episodes: David Brooks: Can We Save Society by Knowing Each Other? Eddie Glaude: On James Baldwin’s America David Desteno: Can Religion Make You Happier? Kristin Du Mez Sits with David French Resources mentioned this episode We Need to Build by Eboo Patel Acts of Faith by Eboo Patel Interfaith America’s website PDF of Lee’s Interview Notes Transcription Link Subscribe to episodes: Apple | Spotify | Amazon | Stitcher | Google | YouTube Follow Us: Instagram | Twitter | Facebook | YouTube Follow Lee: Instagram | Twitter Join our Email List: nosmallendeavor.com Become a Member: Virtual Only | Standard | Premium See Privacy Policy: Privacy Policy Shop No Small Endeavor Merch: Scandalous Witness Course | Scandalous Witness Book |  Joy & the Good Life Course Amazon Affiliate Disclosure: Tokens Media, LLC is a participant in the Amazon Services LLC Associates Program, an affiliate advertising program designed to provide a means for sites to earn advertising fees by advertising and linking to Amazon.com. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Sharing an episode of Your Mama’s Kitchen, a podcast about cuisine and culture, ingredients and identities, and the meals and memories that make us who we are. Every week, host Michele Norris talks to guests like Michelle Obama, Glennon Doyle, José Andrés and more. Together they explore the complexities of family life and how their earliest culinary experiences helped shape their personal and professional lives—and of course, each guest shares a recipe for a favorite dish from their youth so you can taste a bit of their story. In this episode, singer-songwriter Jon Batiste serenades us with his harmonica-keyboard while reminiscing on the sounds of his childhood kitchen in New Orleans. He describes what it was like to grow up in a big, musical family of jazz legends, and shares some of their favorite Christmas traditions—including competing to see who could make the best and truest gumbo. You can find more Your Mama’s Kitchen here. Subscribe to episodes: Apple | Spotify | Amazon | Stitcher | Google | YouTube Follow Us: Instagram | Twitter | Facebook | YouTube Follow Lee: Instagram | Twitter Join our Email List: nosmallendeavor.com Become a Member: Virtual Only | Standard | Premium See Privacy Policy: Privacy Policy Shop No Small Endeavor Merch: Scandalous Witness Course | Scandalous Witness Book |  Joy & the Good Life Course Amazon Affiliate Disclosure: Tokens Media, LLC is a participant in the Amazon Services LLC Associates Program, an affiliate advertising program designed to provide a means for sites to earn advertising fees by advertising and linking to Amazon.com. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

This is our unabridged interview with Anthony Ray Hinton. “I don’t care whether you did or didn’t do it. I’m going to make sure you’re found guilty.” These were the words that Anthony Ray Hinton says put him on Alabama’s death row for nearly 3 decades for a murder he didn’t commit. In 2015, after numerous appeals, he was released after the US Supreme Court vacated the charges, and the State of Alabama dropped the case. Mr. Hinton is author of the New York Times bestseller, “The Sun Does Shine: How I Found Life and Freedom on Death Row.” His story recounts his harrowing decades on death row, and his intention to make choices for compassion and joy in the midst of the chaos of prison life, spending 23 hours every day in a 5 x 7 cell, and watching 54 individuals pass his cell on their way to the death chamber. “You can sit in that cell and be angry with the world,” he says, “or you can sit in that cell and try to find peace and joy. But you can't say you don't have a choice.” Similar episodes: Pervis Payne: The Death Penalty The Architect of the American Civil Rights Movement: James Lawson Eddie Glaude: On James Baldwin’s America Jameel McGee and Andrew Collins: Dirty Cop, False Arrest, and Unexpected Consequences Resources mentioned this episode The Sun Does Shine by Anthony Ray Hinton The Sun Does Shine (Young Readers Edition) by Anthony Ray Hinton Go Tell It on the Mountain by James Baldwin PDF of Lee’s Interview Notes Transcript for Abridged Episode Subscribe to episodes: Apple | Spotify | Amazon | Stitcher | Google | YouTube Follow Us: Instagram | Twitter | Facebook | YouTube Follow Lee: Instagram | Twitter Join our Email List: nosmallendeavor.com See Privacy Policy: Privacy Policy Shop No Small Endeavor Merch: Scandalous Witness Course | Scandalous Witness Book |  Joy & the Good Life Course Amazon Affiliate Disclosure: Tokens Media, LLC is a participant in the Amazon Services LLC Associates Program, an affiliate advertising program designed to provide a means for sites to earn advertising fees by advertising and linking to Amazon.com. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

“I don’t care whether you did or didn’t do it. I’m going to make sure you’re found guilty.” These were the words that Anthony Ray Hinton says put him on Alabama’s death row for nearly 3 decades for a murder he didn’t commit. In 2015, after numerous appeals, he was released after the US Supreme Court vacated the charges, and the State of Alabama dropped the case. Mr. Hinton is author of the New York Times bestseller, “The Sun Does Shine: How I Found Life and Freedom on Death Row.” His story recounts his harrowing decades on death row, and his intention to make choices for compassion and joy in the midst of the chaos of prison life, spending 23 hours every day in a 5 x 7 cell, and watching 54 individuals pass his cell on their way to the death chamber. “You can sit in that cell and be angry with the world,” he says, “or you can sit in that cell and try to find peace and joy. But you can't say you don't have a choice.” Similar episodes: Pervis Payne: The Death Penalty The Architect of the American Civil Rights Movement: James Lawson Eddie Glaude: On James Baldwin’s America Jameel McGee and Andrew Collins: Dirty Cop, False Arrest, and Unexpected Consequences Resources mentioned this episode: The Sun Does Shine by Anthony Ray Hinton The Sun Does Shine (Young Readers Edition) by Anthony Ray Hinton Go Tell It on the Mountain by James Baldwin PDF of Lee’s Interview Notes Transcription Link Subscribe to episodes: Apple | Spotify | Amazon | Stitcher | Google | YouTube Follow Us: Instagram | Twitter | Facebook | YouTube Follow Lee: Instagram | Twitter Join our Email List: nosmallendeavor.com Become a Member: Virtual Only | Standard | Premium See Privacy Policy: Privacy Policy Shop No Small Endeavor Merch: Scandalous Witness Course | Scandalous Witness Book |  Joy & the Good Life Course Amazon Affiliate Disclosure: Tokens Media, LLC is a participant in the Amazon Services LLC Associates Program, an affiliate advertising program designed to provide a means for sites to earn advertising fees by advertising and linking to Amazon.com. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

This is our unabridged interview with Rob Reiner and Dan Partland. What ideas mobilized people to storm the Capitol on January 6th? The new documentary “God & Country” from acclaimed actor and filmmaker Rob Reiner and director Dan Partland seeks to answer that question. Their journalism explores the motives, philosophies, and ideas behind Christian nationalism, and looks at the implications of those views and how they distort not only our constitutional republic, but Christianity itself. “We've got to find a way to live and not kill each other,” says Rob, “especially not over our ideas.” The film features interviews with experts from many different realms - including historians, theologians, political pundits, and more - in order to shed light on the intermix of power and religion in our day. In this episode, Rob and Dan describe their film, why they made it, and what they learned in the process. Show Notes Similar episodes: Kristin Du Mez: Jesus and John Wayne Randall Balmer: Race and the Rise of the Religious Right Kristin Du Mez Sits with David French Russell Moore: Against, and For, the Tribe Robert Jones: White Too Long Resources mentioned this episode ”God and Country” Trailer PDF of Lee’s Interview Notes Transcription Link for Abridged Episode Subscribe to episodes: Apple | Spotify | Amazon | Stitcher | Google | YouTube Follow Us: Instagram | Twitter | Facebook | YouTube Follow Lee: Instagram | Twitter Join our Email List: nosmallendeavor.com Become a Member: Virtual Only | Standard | Premium See Privacy Policy: Privacy Policy Shop No Small Endeavor Merch: Scandalous Witness Course | Scandalous Witness Book |  Joy & the Good Life Course Amazon Affiliate Disclosure: Tokens Media, LLC is a participant in the Amazon Services LLC Associates Program, an affiliate advertising program designed to provide a means for sites to earn advertising fees by advertising and linking to Amazon.com. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

What ideas mobilized people to storm the Capitol on January 6th? The new documentary “God & Country” from acclaimed actor and filmmaker Rob Reiner and director Dan Partland seeks to answer that question. Their journalism explores the motives, philosophies, and ideas behind Christian nationalism, and looks at the implications of those views and how they distort not only our constitutional republic, but Christianity itself. “We've got to find a way to live and not kill each other,” says Rob, “especially not over our ideas.” The film features interviews with experts from many different realms - including historians, theologians, political pundits, and more - in order to shed light on the intermix of power and religion in our day. In this episode, Rob and Dan describe their film, why they made it, and what they learned in the process. Show Notes Similar episodes: Kristin Du Mez: Jesus and John Wayne Randall Balmer: Race and the Rise of the Religious Right Kristin Du Mez Sits with David French Russell Moore: Against, and For, the Tribe Robert Jones: White Too Long Resources mentioned this episode ”God and Country” Trailer PDF of Lee’s Interview Notes Transcription Link Subscribe to episodes: Apple | Spotify | Amazon | Stitcher | Google | YouTube Follow Us: Instagram | Twitter | Facebook | YouTube Follow Lee: Instagram | Twitter Join our Email List: nosmallendeavor.com Become a Member: Virtual Only | Standard | Premium See Privacy Policy: Privacy Policy Shop No Small Endeavor Merch: Scandalous Witness Course | Scandalous Witness Book |  Joy & the Good Life Course Amazon Affiliate Disclosure: Tokens Media, LLC is a participant in the Amazon Services LLC Associates Program, an affiliate advertising program designed to provide a means for sites to earn advertising fees by advertising and linking to Amazon.com. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

This is our unabridged interview with David Brooks. “We’re in the middle of some sort of social crisis,” says New York Times columnist and bestselling author David Brooks. Politics and social discourse have become brutal. Loneliness, hopelessness, and suicide rates have been measured at all-time highs. Trust and friendship have been measured at all-time lows. But all is not lost, according to David. There is still a way forward, and it’s simpler than one might think. “The essential moral act is the act of attention,” he says. “Our goal should be to cast a just and loving attention on others.” In this episode, he discusses his new book, “How to Know a Person: The Art of Seeing Others Deeply and Being Deeply Seen,” and how truly knowing others calls forth a better version of both oneself and one’s community. A warning: this episode contains mention of suicide. If you or someone you know is in crisis, contact the Suicide Prevention Lifeline at 1-800-273-8255. Show Notes Similar episodes: David Brooks: The Road to Character Heather Holleman: The Art of Conversation Kelly Corrigan: How Vulnerability Leads to Connection Curt Thompson: The Power Of Being Seen Resources mentioned this episode How to Know a Person by David Brooks The Sovereignty of Good by Iris Murdoch PDF of Lee’s Interview Notes Transcript for Abridged Episode Subscribe to episodes: Apple | Spotify | Amazon | Stitcher | Google | YouTube Follow Us: Instagram | Twitter | Facebook | YouTube Follow Lee: Instagram | Twitter Join our Email List: nosmallendeavor.com Become a Member: Virtual Only | Standard | Premium See Privacy Policy: Privacy Policy Shop No Small Endeavor Merch: Scandalous Witness Course | Scandalous Witness Book |  Joy & the Good Life Course Amazon Affiliate Disclosure: Tokens Media, LLC is a participant in the Amazon Services LLC Associates Program, an affiliate advertising program designed to provide a means for sites to earn advertising fees by advertising and linking to Amazon.com. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

We're pleased on occasion to share with you an episode from other podcasts which we find important and helpful. You may have heard our episode with renowned psychologist David DeSteno, on his book How God Works. I very much enjoyed my conversation with Dave, and found his approach helpful and refreshing. On his podcast, by the same name—How God Works—Dave talks with religious leaders, scientists, and intellectuals from various fields and explores the overlap between scientific research and the teachings of various wisdom and faith traditions. The episode we share today I find particularly helpful: one on hope, and the cultivation of hopefulness in a world marred by seemingly intractable violence and hostility. Dave interviews Pulitzer-prize winning journalist Nicholas Kristof, who discusses ways he's learned to maintain hopefulness even while covering some of the most horrific instances of violence and war-making; and Roshi Joan Halifax, founder of Upaya Zen Center in Santa Fe, NM, about the notion of wise hope, the equanimity it can bring, and the fierce compassion it can unleash. We hope you enjoy this episode of How God Works and consider subscribing. -Lee C. Camp Subscribe to episodes: Apple | Spotify | Amazon | Stitcher | Google | YouTube Follow Us: Instagram | Twitter | Facebook | YouTube Follow Lee: Instagram | Twitter Join our Email List: nosmallendeavor.com Become a Member: Virtual Only | Standard | Premium See Privacy Policy: Privacy Policy Shop No Small Endeavor Merch: Scandalous Witness Course | Scandalous Witness Book |  Joy & the Good Life Course Amazon Affiliate Disclosure: Tokens Media, LLC is a participant in the Amazon Services LLC Associates Program, an affiliate advertising program designed to provide a means for sites to earn advertising fees by advertising and linking to Amazon.com. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

“We’re in the middle of some sort of social crisis,” says New York Times columnist and bestselling author David Brooks. Politics and social discourse have become brutal. Loneliness, hopelessness, and suicide rates have been measured at all-time highs. Trust and friendship have been measured at all-time lows. But all is not lost, according to David. There is still a way forward, and it’s simpler than one might think. “The essential moral act is the act of attention,” he says. “Our goal should be to cast a just and loving attention on others.” In this episode, he discusses his new book, “How to Know a Person: The Art of Seeing Others Deeply and Being Deeply Seen,” and how truly knowing others calls forth a better version of both oneself and one’s community. A warning: this episode contains mention of suicide. If you or someone you know is in crisis, contact the Suicide Prevention Lifeline at 1-800-273-8255. Show Notes Similar episodes: David Brooks: The Road to Character Heather Holleman: The Art of Conversation Kelly Corrigan: How Vulnerability Leads to Connection Curt Thompson: The Power Of Being Seen Resources mentioned this episode How to Know a Person by David Brooks The Sovereignty of Good by Iris Murdoch PDF of Lee’s Interview Notes Transcription Link Subscribe to episodes: Apple | Spotify | Amazon | Stitcher | Google | YouTube Follow Us: Instagram | Twitter | Facebook | YouTube Follow Lee: Instagram | Twitter Join our Email List: nosmallendeavor.com Become a Member: Virtual Only | Standard | Premium See Privacy Policy: Privacy Policy Shop No Small Endeavor Merch: Scandalous Witness Course | Scandalous Witness Book |  Joy & the Good Life Course Amazon Affiliate Disclosure: Tokens Media, LLC is a participant in the Amazon Services LLC Associates Program, an affiliate advertising program designed to provide a means for sites to earn advertising fees by advertising and linking to Amazon.com. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

This is our unabridged episode with John Dear. How do you live a good life in a world of 30 wars, 13,000 nuclear weapons, 4 billion people in poverty, racism, gun violence, child hunger, and catastrophic climate change? This is the question posed by activist and Catholic priest John Dear. For years, John has taken part in peace movements alongside folks like Coretta King, Thich Nhat Hanh, and Desmond Tutu. In this episode, he has some unbelievable stories that answer his question in a provocative way. To live a good life, he argues, you cannot support war, nuclear weapons, or violence. “To do the good,” in his words, “means to stop the killing.” Show Notes Similar episodes: The Architect of the American Civil Rights Movement: James Lawson The Business of War: Justin Barringer Martin Sheen: Actor and Activist Resources mentioned this episode: German Catholics and Hitler’s Wars by Gordon Zahn Man’s Search for Meaning by Viktor Frankl The Nonviolent Life by John Dear The Beatitudes Center John Dear’s website Transcript for Abridged Episode Subscribe to episodes: Apple | Spotify | Amazon | Stitcher | Google | YouTube Follow Us: Instagram | Twitter | Facebook | YouTube Follow Lee: Instagram | Twitter Join our Email List: nosmallendeavor.com Become a Member: Virtual Only | Standard | Premium See Privacy Policy: Privacy Policy Shop No Small Endeavor Merch: Scandalous Witness Course | Scandalous Witness Book |  Joy & the Good Life Course Amazon Affiliate Disclosure: Tokens Media, LLC is a participant in the Amazon Services LLC Associates Program, an affiliate advertising program designed to provide a means for sites to earn advertising fees by advertising and linking to Amazon.com. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

How do you live a good life in a world of 30 wars, 13,000 nuclear weapons, 4 billion people in poverty, racism, gun violence, child hunger, and catastrophic climate change? This is the question posed by activist and Catholic priest John Dear. For years, John has taken part in peace movements alongside folks like Coretta King, Thich Nhat Hanh, and Desmond Tutu. In this episode, he has some unbelievable stories that answer his question in a provocative way. To live a good life, he argues, you cannot support war, nuclear weapons, or violence. “To do the good,” in his words, “means to stop the killing.” Show Notes Similar episodes: The Architect of the American Civil Rights Movement: James Lawson The Business of War: Justin Barringer Martin Sheen: Actor and Activist Resources mentioned this episode: German Catholics and Hitler’s Wars by Gordon Zahn Man’s Search for Meaning by Viktor Frankl The Nonviolent Life by John Dear The Beatitudes Center John Dear’s website Transcription Link Subscribe to episodes: Apple | Spotify | Amazon | Stitcher | Google | YouTube Follow Us: Instagram | Twitter | Facebook | YouTube Follow Lee: Instagram | Twitter Join our Email List: nosmallendeavor.com Become a Member: Virtual Only | Standard | Premium See Privacy Policy: Privacy Policy Shop No Small Endeavor Merch: Scandalous Witness Course | Scandalous Witness Book |  Joy & the Good Life Course Amazon Affiliate Disclosure: Tokens Media, LLC is a participant in the Amazon Services LLC Associates Program, an affiliate advertising program designed to provide a means for sites to earn advertising fees by advertising and linking to Amazon.com. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

This is our unabridged interview with Martin Sheen. In this episode, Lee sits down with the former President of the United States… At least, that’s how many listeners may know Martin Sheen, an award-winning actor known for his roles in “Apocalypse Now” and “The Departed,” and perhaps most famously for playing President Jed Bartlet in the hit TV series “The West Wing.” But offscreen, Martin is perhaps best described as an ardent Catholic peace activist who has been arrested over 60 times. In this episode, he tells his whole story, full of humor and grace all the way from his childhood, to his acting career, to activism alongside James Lawson and John Dear, and much more. Show Notes Similar episodes: The Architect of The American Civil Rights Movement: James Lawson Taking the Beatitudes Seriously: John Dear Resources mentioned this episode: The West Wing Cathedral Scene PDF of Lee’s Interview Notes Transcript for Abridged Episode Subscribe to episodes: Apple | Spotify | Amazon | Stitcher | Google | YouTube Follow Us: Instagram | Twitter | Facebook | YouTube Follow Lee: Instagram | Twitter Join our Email List: nosmallendeavor.com Become a Member: Virtual Only | Standard | Premium See Privacy Policy: Privacy Policy Shop No Small Endeavor Merch: Scandalous Witness Course | Scandalous Witness Book |  Joy & the Good Life Course Amazon Affiliate Disclosure: Tokens Media, LLC is a participant in the Amazon Services LLC Associates Program, an affiliate advertising program designed to provide a means for sites to earn advertising fees by advertising and linking to Amazon.com. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

In this episode, Lee sits down with the former President of the United States… At least, that’s how many listeners may know Martin Sheen, an award-winning actor known for his roles in “Apocalypse Now” and “The Departed,” and perhaps most famously for playing President Jed Bartlet in the hit TV series “The West Wing.” But offscreen, Martin is perhaps best described as an ardent Catholic peace activist who has been arrested over 60 times. In this episode, he tells his whole story, full of humor and grace all the way from his childhood, to his acting career, to activism alongside James Lawson and John Dear, and much more. Show Notes Similar episodes: The Architect of The American Civil Rights Movement: James Lawson Taking the Beatitudes Seriously: John Dear Resources mentioned this episode: The West Wing Cathedral Scene PDF of Lee’s Interview Notes Transcription Link Subscribe to episodes: Apple | Spotify | Amazon | Stitcher | Google | YouTube Follow Us: Instagram | Twitter | Facebook | YouTube Follow Lee: Instagram | Twitter Join our Email List: nosmallendeavor.com Become a Member: Virtual Only | Standard | Premium See Privacy Policy: Privacy Policy Shop No Small Endeavor Merch: Scandalous Witness Course | Scandalous Witness Book |  Joy & the Good Life Course Amazon Affiliate Disclosure: Tokens Media, LLC is a participant in the Amazon Services LLC Associates Program, an affiliate advertising program designed to provide a means for sites to earn advertising fees by advertising and linking to Amazon.com. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

This is our unabridged interview with James Lawson. The US Civil Rights Movement, like Gandhi's Indian Independence Movement, was famously set apart by its employment of non-violent resistance methods. But have you ever wondered how such a movement was possible on so large a scale? In this episode, we are honored to have the man who Martin Luther King Jr. called friend, mentor, and the very conscience and architect of the Civil Rights Movement: Reverend James Lawson. Now in his 90’s, he discusses the United States’ past and present, and what it took to organize a whole population across the country to fight back without throwing a punch. “​​We started the public desegregation of the nation,” he says, “and we did it without hating anybody.” Show Notes Similar episodes: Eddie Glaude: On James Baldwin’s America Dr. Fred Gray: Doing Justice Alongside MLK and Rosa Parks Martin Sheen: Actor and Activist Resources mentioned this episode: Fellowship Of Reconciliation (F.O.R.) Rev. James Lawson’s Church: Holman United Methodist PDF of Lee’s Interview Notes Transcript for Abridged Episode Subscribe to episodes: Apple | Spotify | Amazon | Stitcher | Google | YouTube Follow Us: Instagram | Twitter | Facebook | YouTube Follow Lee: Instagram | Twitter Join our Email List: nosmallendeavor.com Become a Member: Virtual Only | Standard | Premium See Privacy Policy: Privacy Policy Shop No Small Endeavor Merch: Scandalous Witness Course | Scandalous Witness Book |  Joy & the Good Life Course Amazon Affiliate Disclosure: Tokens Media, LLC is a participant in the Amazon Services LLC Associates Program, an affiliate advertising program designed to provide a means for sites to earn advertising fees by advertising and linking to Amazon.com. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

The US Civil Rights Movement, like Gandhi's Indian Independence Movement, was famously set apart by its employment of non-violent resistance methods. But have you ever wondered how such a movement was possible on so large a scale? In this episode, we are honored to have the man who Martin Luther King Jr. called friend, mentor, and the very conscience and architect of the Civil Rights Movement: Reverend James Lawson. Now in his 90’s, he discusses the United States’ past and present, and what it took to organize a whole population across the country to fight back without throwing a punch. “​​We started the public desegregation of the nation,” he says, “and we did it without hating anybody.” Show Notes Similar episodes: Eddie Glaude: On James Baldwin’s America Dr. Fred Gray: Doing Justice Alongside MLK and Rosa Parks Martin Sheen: Actor and Activist Resources mentioned this episode: Fellowship Of Reconciliation (F.O.R.) Rev. James Lawson’s Church: Holman United Methodist PDF of Lee’s Interview Notes Transcription Link Subscribe to episodes: Apple | Spotify | Amazon | Stitcher | Google | YouTube Follow Us: Instagram | Twitter | Facebook | YouTube Follow Lee: Instagram | Twitter Join our Email List: nosmallendeavor.com Become a Member: Virtual Only | Standard | Premium See Privacy Policy: Privacy Policy Shop No Small Endeavor Merch: Scandalous Witness Course | Scandalous Witness Book |  Joy & the Good Life Course Amazon Affiliate Disclosure: Tokens Media, LLC is a participant in the Amazon Services LLC Associates Program, an affiliate advertising program designed to provide a means for sites to earn advertising fees by advertising and linking to Amazon.com. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

What do Olympic athletes, world-class artists, elite academics, and successful business executives have in common? Ivy League psychologist Angela Duckworth has spent her career researching this question, closely studying those folks at the top of their respective fields who are considered “high achievers.” Surprisingly, it turns out neither talent nor genius is the answer. “The common denominator,” she says, “is grit.” In this episode, Angela Duckworth explains what she means by “grit,” discusses why it is such a crucial determinant for success, and offers highly practical methods for developing grit in one’s own life. Show Notes Similar episodes: Time Management for Mortals: Oliver Burkeman What it Takes to Live a Good Life: Meghan Sullivan Resources mentioned this episode Grit by Angela Duckworth Character Lab PDF of Lee’s Interview Notes Transcript for Abridged Episode Subscribe to episodes: Apple | Spotify | Amazon | Stitcher | Google | YouTube Follow Us: Instagram | Twitter | Facebook | YouTube Follow Lee: Instagram | Twitter Join our Email List: nosmallendeavor.com Become a Member: Virtual Only | Standard | Premium See Privacy Policy: Privacy Policy Shop No Small Endeavor Merch: Scandalous Witness Course | Scandalous Witness Book |  Joy & the Good Life Course Amazon Affiliate Disclosure: Tokens Media, LLC is a participant in the Amazon Services LLC Associates Program, an affiliate advertising program designed to provide a means for sites to earn advertising fees by advertising and linking to Amazon.com. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

What do Olympic athletes, world-class artists, elite academics, and successful business executives have in common? Ivy League psychologist Angela Duckworth has spent her career researching this question, closely studying those folks at the top of their respective fields who are considered “high achievers.” Surprisingly, it turns out neither talent nor genius is the answer. “The common denominator,” she says, “is grit.” In this episode, Angela Duckworth explains what she means by “grit,” discusses why it is such a crucial determinant for success, and offers highly practical methods for developing grit in one’s own life. Show Notes Similar episodes: Time Management for Mortals: Oliver Burkeman What it Takes to Live a Good Life: Meghan Sullivan Resources mentioned this episode Grit by Angela Duckworth Character Lab PDF of Lee’s Interview Notes Episode Transcript Subscribe to episodes: Apple | Spotify | Amazon | Stitcher | Google | YouTube Follow Us: Instagram | Twitter | Facebook | YouTube Follow Lee: Instagram | Twitter Join our Email List: nosmallendeavor.com Become a Member: Virtual Only | Standard | Premium See Privacy Policy: Privacy Policy Shop No Small Endeavor Merch: Scandalous Witness Course | Scandalous Witness Book |  Joy & the Good Life Course Amazon Affiliate Disclosure: Tokens Media, LLC is a participant in the Amazon Services LLC Associates Program, an affiliate advertising program designed to provide a means for sites to earn advertising fees by advertising and linking to Amazon.com. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

This is our unabridged episode with Elise Hu. What is beauty, and what role should it play in our lives? Beauty has long been seen as one the three “transcendentals” (along with truth and goodness) which have been valued at all times, in all places, by all cultures. But these days, the word “beauty” is often equated with standards of bodily presentation that, in an increasingly globalized and technological world, are reachable only by extreme measures of constant labor or cosmetic surgery. In this episode, Elise asks the question we’re all thinking: is that version of beauty good for us? She discusses her experience in a beauty-obsessed Korean culture, its effects on both women and men, and what a healthy relationship with beauty might look like. Show Notes: Similar episodes The Price of the Pursuit of Pleasure: Anna Lembke Thou Shalt Not Be a Jerk: Eugene Cho Resources mentioned this episode Flawless by Elise Hu PDF of Lee’s Interview Notes Transcription Link for Abridged Episode Join NSE+ Our subscriber only community with bonus episodes, ad-free listening, and discounts on live shows Subscribe to episodes: Apple | Spotify | Amazon | Google | YouTube Follow Us: Instagram | Twitter | Facebook | YouTube Follow Lee: Instagram | Twitter Join our Email List: nosmallendeavor.com Become a Subscriber: NSE+ See Privacy Policy: Privacy Policy Amazon Affiliate Disclosure: Tokens Media, LLC is a participant in the Amazon Services LLC Associates Program, an affiliate advertising program designed to provide a means for sites to earn advertising fees by advertising and linking to Amazon.com. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

What is beauty, and what role should it play in our lives? Beauty has long been seen as one the three “transcendentals” (along with truth and goodness) which have been valued at all times, in all places, by all cultures. But these days, the word “beauty” is often equated with standards of bodily presentation that, in an increasingly globalized and technological world, are reachable only by extreme measures of constant labor or cosmetic surgery. In this episode, Elise asks the question we’re all thinking: is that version of beauty good for us? She discusses her experience in a beauty-obsessed Korean culture, its effects on both women and men, and what a healthy relationship with beauty might look like. Show Notes: Similar episodes The Price of the Pursuit of Pleasure: Anna Lembke Thou Shalt Not Be a Jerk: Eugene Cho Resources mentioned this episode Flawless by Elise Hu PDF of Lee’s Interview Notes Transcription Link Join NSE+ Our subscriber only community with bonus episodes, ad-free listening, and discounts on live shows Subscribe to episodes: Apple | Spotify | Amazon | Google | YouTube Follow Us: Instagram | Twitter | Facebook | YouTube Follow Lee: Instagram | Twitter Join our Email List: nosmallendeavor.com Become a Subscriber: NSE+ See Privacy Policy: Privacy Policy Amazon Affiliate Disclosure: Tokens Media, LLC is a participant in the Amazon Services LLC Associates Program, an affiliate advertising program designed to provide a means for sites to earn advertising fees by advertising and linking to Amazon.com. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Twins Tom and Tony Bancroft grew up sharing a small bedroom, trying to out-draw each other. Today, they have long careers under their belts working for Disney, Warner Brothers, and many more esteemed animation studios. Their life’s work is a testament to the power of passion, imagination, faith, and brotherhood. In this episode, they discuss how they became animators at the world’s most famous companies, what it’s like to be storytellers for the masses, and what their faith has meant to them over the course of their lives. Show Notes: Similar episodes Johnnyswim: Reality TV, the Cuban Revolution, and a Disco Queen Mother Drew Holcomb: Fighting Dragons and Singing at Loss Resources mentioned this episode The Bancroft Brothers Animation Podcast Join NSE+ Our subscriber only community with bonus episodes, ad-free listening, and discounts on live shows  Subscribe to episodes: Apple | Spotify | Amazon | Google | YouTube Follow Us: Instagram | Twitter | Facebook | YouTube Follow Lee: Instagram | Twitter  Join our Email List: nosmallendeavor.com Become a Subscriber: NSE+ See Privacy Policy: Privacy Policy  Amazon Affiliate Disclosure: Tokens Media, LLC is a participant in the Amazon Services LLC Associates Program, an affiliate advertising program designed to provide a means for sites to earn advertising fees by advertising and linking to Amazon.com. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

This is our unabridged episode with Heather Holleman. How important is it to be a good conversationalist? In an age of widespread loneliness, close relationships are at a premium, and it’s harder than ever to find common ground, even with those we spend time with on a daily basis. According to Heather Holleman, this is due in part to the fact that we have lost the ability to have what she calls “good conversations.” “Good conversations create personal closeness,” she says. “When you have good conversations, it could intervene in the loneliness epidemic.” In this episode, she discusses her book “The Six Conversations: Pathways to Connecting in an Age of Isolation and Inactivity,” in which she offers loads of practical tips for becoming better listeners, talkers, question askers, and ultimately, human beings. Show Notes: Similar episodes Robert Waldinger and Marc Schulz: Lessons from the World’s Longest Scientific Study on Happiness Kelly Corrigan: How Vulnerability Leads to Connection Curt Thompson: The Power of Being Known Resources mentioned this episode The Six Conversations by Heather Holleman Transcript for Abridged Episode Join NSE+ Our subscriber only community with bonus episodes, ad-free listening, and discounts on live shows Subscribe to episodes: Apple | Spotify | Amazon | Google | YouTube Follow Us: Instagram | Twitter | Facebook | YouTube Follow Lee: Instagram | Twitter Join our Email List: nosmallendeavor.com Become a Subscriber: NSE+ See Privacy Policy: Privacy Policy Amazon Affiliate Disclosure: Tokens Media, LLC is a participant in the Amazon Services LLC Associates Program, an affiliate advertising program designed to provide a means for sites to earn advertising fees by advertising and linking to Amazon.com. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

How important is it to be a good conversationalist? In an age of widespread loneliness, close relationships are at a premium, and it’s harder than ever to find common ground, even with those we spend time with on a daily basis. According to Heather Holleman, this is due in part to the fact that we have lost the ability to have what she calls “good conversations.” “Good conversations create personal closeness,” she says. “When you have good conversations, it could intervene in the loneliness epidemic.” In this episode, she discusses her book “The Six Conversations: Pathways to Connecting in an Age of Isolation and Inactivity,” in which she offers loads of practical tips for becoming better listeners, talkers, question askers, and ultimately, human beings. Show Notes: Similar episodes Robert Waldinger and Marc Schulz: Lessons from the World’s Longest Scientific Study on Happiness Kelly Corrigan: How Vulnerability Leads to Connection Curt Thompson: The Power of Being Known Resources mentioned this episode The Six Conversations by Heather Holleman Episode Transcript Join NSE+ Our subscriber only community with bonus episodes, ad-free listening, and discounts on live shows Subscribe to episodes: Apple | Spotify | Amazon | Google | YouTube Follow Us: Instagram | Twitter | Facebook | YouTube Follow Lee: Instagram | Twitter Join our Email List: nosmallendeavor.com Become a Subscriber: NSE+ See Privacy Policy: Privacy Policy Amazon Affiliate Disclosure: Tokens Media, LLC is a participant in the Amazon Services LLC Associates Program, an affiliate advertising program designed to provide a means for sites to earn advertising fees by advertising and linking to Amazon.com. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

This is our unabridged interview with Rebecca DeYoung. Sin. It's a word seen by many as a "religious word," one which evokes all manner of images. Like, maybe Las Vegas. Or the temptation of Adam and Eve in the book of Genesis. But many see it as an irrelevant word to their contemporary life. Our guest today has studied what are traditionally referred to as the seven deadly sins. She proposes that the medieval taxonomy of sin is actually -quite- relevant to our lives today; and that it can steer us -away- from destructive ways of life, and toward habits, practices, dispositions which make possible, a better life. Rebecca DeYoung is author of the award-winning book “Glittering Vices: A New Look at the Seven Deadly Sins and Their Remedies” and a Professor of Ethics, History, and Philosophy at Calvin College. Join NSE+ Our subscriber only community with bonus episodes, ad-free listening, and discounts on live shows Subscribe to episodes: Apple | Spotify | Amazon | Google | YouTube Follow Us: Instagram | Twitter | Facebook | YouTube Follow Lee: Instagram | Twitter Join our Email List: nosmallendeavor.com Become a Subscriber: NSE+ See Privacy Policy: Privacy Policy Amazon Affiliate Disclosure: Tokens Media, LLC is a participant in the Amazon Services LLC Associates Program, an affiliate advertising program designed to provide a means for sites to earn advertising fees by advertising and linking to Amazon.com. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Sin. It's a word seen by many as "religious word," one which evokes all manner of images. Like, maybe Las Vegas. Or the temptation of Adam and Eve in the book of Genesis. But many see it as an irrelevant word to their contemporary life. Our guest today has studied what are traditionally referred to as the seven deadly sins. She proposes that the medieval taxonomy of sin is actually -quite- relevant to our lives today; and that it can steer us -away- from destructive ways of life, and toward habits, practices, dispositions which make possible, a better life. Rebecca DeYoung is author of the award-winning book “Glittering Vices: A New Look at the Seven Deadly Sins and Their Remedies” and a Professor of Ethics, History, and Philosophy at Calvin College. Join NSE+ Our subscriber only community with bonus episodes, ad-free listening, and discounts on live shows Subscribe to episodes: Apple | Spotify | Amazon | Google | YouTube Follow Us: Instagram | Twitter | Facebook | YouTube Follow Lee: Instagram | Twitter Join our Email List: nosmallendeavor.com Become a Subscriber: NSE+ See Privacy Policy: Privacy Policy Amazon Affiliate Disclosure: Tokens Media, LLC is a participant in the Amazon Services LLC Associates Program, an affiliate advertising program designed to provide a means for sites to earn advertising fees by advertising and linking to Amazon.com. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

This is our unabridged interview with Peter Harris and Jo Swinney. “If you live in community, you have no choice but to tell a true story.” Peter Harris, Anglican clergyman and founder of environmental non-profit A Rocha, lost his beloved wife Miranda in a car accident in South Africa. Miranda left behind a grieving community, and an unfinished book. Their daughter, Jo Swinney, found her mother’s unfinished book, full of wisdom and stories from a life dedicated to hospitality. She finished and published it, and in the process, learned much about both grief and joy. In this episode, Peter and Jo sit down in front of a live audience to discuss the legacy of hospitality and faith that Miranda left, what it has been like to grieve, and what it might be like to see a deteriorating world with the same hope that Miranda did. Show Notes: Similar episodes Peter Harris: The Collapse of the Biosphere Katharine Hayhoe: “The Most Polarized Issue in the United States” Burying 250 Friends: Greg Boyle on Community Amidst Gang Violence Resources mentioned this episode A Place at the Table by Jo Swinney and Miranda Harris A Rocha International Join NSE+ Our subscriber only community with bonus episodes, ad-free listening, and discounts on live shows Subscribe to episodes: Apple | Spotify | Amazon | Google | YouTube Follow Us: Instagram | Twitter | Facebook | YouTube Follow Lee: Instagram | Twitter Join our Email List: nosmallendeavor.com Become a Subscriber: NSE+ See Privacy Policy: Privacy Policy Amazon Affiliate Disclosure: Tokens Media, LLC is a participant in the Amazon Services LLC Associates Program, an affiliate advertising program designed to provide a means for sites to earn advertising fees by advertising and linking to Amazon.com. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

“If you live in community, you have no choice but to tell a true story.” Peter Harris, Anglican clergyman and founder of environmental non-profit A Rocha, lost his beloved wife Miranda in a car accident in South Africa. Miranda left behind a grieving community, and an unfinished book. Their daughter, Jo Swinney, found her mother’s unfinished book, full of wisdom and stories from a life dedicated to hospitality. She finished and published it, and in the process, learned much about both grief and joy. In this episode, Peter and Jo sit down in front of a live audience to discuss the legacy of hospitality and faith that Miranda left, what it has been like to grieve, and what it might be like to see a deteriorating world with the same hope that Miranda did. Show Notes: Similar episodes Peter Harris: The Collapse of the Biosphere Katharine Hayhoe: “The Most Polarized Issue in the United States” Burying 250 Friends: Greg Boyle on Community Amidst Gang Violence Resources mentioned this episode A Place at the Table by Jo Swinney and Miranda Harris A Rocha International Join NSE+ Our subscriber only community with bonus episodes, ad-free listening, and discounts on live shows  Subscribe to episodes: Apple | Spotify | Amazon | Google | YouTube Follow Us: Instagram | Twitter | Facebook | YouTube Follow Lee: Instagram | Twitter  Join our Email List: nosmallendeavor.com Become a Subscriber: NSE+ See Privacy Policy: Privacy Policy  Amazon Affiliate Disclosure: Tokens Media, LLC is a participant in the Amazon Services LLC Associates Program, an affiliate advertising program designed to provide a means for sites to earn advertising fees by advertising and linking to Amazon.com. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

This is our unabridged interview with N.T. Wright. How does art affect our theology? “Most Christians believe that the aim of the game is to go to heaven when you die. That’s wrong,” says N.T. Wright, Anglican bishop and bestselling author. In fact, he argues, most Christians have gotten it completely backwards. We don’t go there when we die - it comes to us when we live. In this episode, we discuss how such a drastic theological error can be widely accepted, and why the stories we tell each other through art have a greater impact on our beliefs than we think. Show Notes: Similar episodes William Paul Young: Author of The Shack Rebecca DeYoung: Seven Ways to Ruin Your Life John Mark Comer: The Ruthless Elimination of Hurry Resources mentioned this episode Ask N.T. Wright Anything Podcast Join NSE+ Our subscriber only community with bonus episodes, ad-free listening, and discounts on live shows Subscribe to episodes: Apple | Spotify | Amazon | Google | YouTube Follow Us: Instagram | Twitter | Facebook | YouTube Follow Lee: Instagram | Twitter Join our Email List: nosmallendeavor.com Become a Subscriber: NSE+ See Privacy Policy: Privacy Policy Amazon Affiliate Disclosure: Tokens Media, LLC is a participant in the Amazon Services LLC Associates Program, an affiliate advertising program designed to provide a means for sites to earn advertising fees by advertising and linking to Amazon.com. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

How does art affect our theology? “Most Christians believe that the aim of the game is to go to heaven when you die. That’s wrong,” says N.T. Wright, Anglican bishop and bestselling author. In fact, he argues, most Christians have gotten it completely backwards. We don’t go there when we die - it comes to us when we live. In this episode, we discuss how such a drastic theological error can be widely accepted, and why the stories we tell each other through art have a greater impact on our beliefs than we think. Plus, we hear on the subject from two master storytellers, Tom and Tony Bancroft. Show Notes: Similar episodes William Paul Young: Author of The Shack Rebecca DeYoung: Seven Ways to Ruin Your Life John Mark Comer: The Ruthless Elimination of Hurry Resources mentioned this episode Ask N.T. Wright Anything Podcast Join NSE+ Our subscriber only community with bonus episodes, ad-free listening, and discounts on live shows  Subscribe to episodes: Apple | Spotify | Amazon | Google | YouTube Follow Us: Instagram | Twitter | Facebook | YouTube Follow Lee: Instagram | Twitter  Join our Email List: nosmallendeavor.com Become a Subscriber: NSE+ See Privacy Policy: Privacy Policy  Amazon Affiliate Disclosure: Tokens Media, LLC is a participant in the Amazon Services LLC Associates Program, an affiliate advertising program designed to provide a means for sites to earn advertising fees by advertising and linking to Amazon.com. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Happy Thanksgiving! How can one be grateful during difficult times? And how do we talk to one another in a polarized world? In this episode, we bring you four conversations to tee you up for a successful and meaningful time with family and friends. First, we hear from six-time Grammy-winner Amy Grant on her newfound gratitude in the wake of a traumatic bike accident. Then, Heather Holleman gives us all practical tips on having great bonding conversations that make people feel seen and heard, transcending the things that divide us. Third, community organizer and activist Diane Latiker shares how she opened up her home and changed the trajectory of a neighborhood through hospitality. Lastly, author Oliver Burkeman reveals the key to living in the moment and transforming the mundane into something meaningful. Altogether, it’s the perfect toolkit for getting in the right frame of mind and heading into the holidays with gratitude and conversation. Show Notes: Similar episodes Amy Grant: Fame, Vulnerability, and Staying Grounded Heather Holleman: The Art of Conversation America’s Gun Epidemic: David Hemenway, Chris Hays, Carly Crouch, and Diane Latiker Oliver Burkeman: Time Management for Mortals Resources mentioned this episode 4,000 Weeks by Oliver Burkeman Join NSE+ Our subscriber only community with bonus episodes, ad-free listening, and discounts on live shows  Subscribe to episodes: Apple | Spotify | Amazon | Google | YouTube Follow Us: Instagram | Twitter | Facebook | YouTube Follow Lee: Instagram | Twitter  Join our Email List: nosmallendeavor.com Become a Subscriber: NSE+ See Privacy Policy: Privacy Policy  Amazon Affiliate Disclosure: Tokens Media, LLC is a participant in the Amazon Services LLC Associates Program, an affiliate advertising program designed to provide a means for sites to earn advertising fees by advertising and linking to Amazon.com. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Every year on the Sunday before Thanksgiving, No Small Endeavor hosts a live variety show in downtown Nashville featuring esteemed musicians and guest speakers. In 2022, we were joined at the world-famous Ryman Auditorium by Americana duo Johnnyswim and psychiatrist Curt Thompson. It was a night of laughter, story, and song, all to celebrate hospitality, vulnerability, and gratitude. In this episode, we feature some of the highlights from that show. Show Notes: Similar episodes The Power of Being Known: Curt Thompson Reality TV, The Cuban Revolution, and a Disco Queen Mother: Johnnyswim Welcome Table: A Thanksgiving Special Resources mentioned this episode The Soul of Shame by Curt Thompson Join NSE+ Our subscriber only community with bonus episodes, ad-free listening, and discounts on live shows  Subscribe to episodes: Apple | Spotify | Amazon | Google | YouTube Follow Us: Instagram | Twitter | Facebook | YouTube Follow Lee: Instagram | Twitter  Join our Email List: nosmallendeavor.com Become a Subscriber: NSE+ See Privacy Policy: Privacy Policy  Amazon Affiliate Disclosure: Tokens Media, LLC is a participant in the Amazon Services LLC Associates Program, an affiliate advertising program designed to provide a means for sites to earn advertising fees by advertising and linking to Amazon.com. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Should Christians condone war? There is a long history of debate among Christians regarding the use of violence. Is “turning the other cheek” an excuse to take oppression lying down? Should Christians adhere to national military obligations? Is there such a thing as a “just war,” or is all killing anti-Christian? Michael Budde has been studying these questions for a long time. In this episode, he discusses why he thinks Christians are called to total non-violence, why nationalism is responsible for many of the church’s historical failings, and what a counter-cultural version of faith might look like. Show Notes Similar episodes: Taking the Beatitudes Seriously: John Dear The Business of War: Justin Barringer Actor and Activist: Martin Sheen Randall Balmer: Race and the Rise of the Religious Right Resources mentioned this episode Just War as Christian Discipleship by Daniel Bell No Bars to Manhood by Daniel Berrigan PDF of Lee’s Interview Notes Transcript for Abridged Episode Join NSE+ Our subscriber only community with bonus episodes, ad-free listening, and discounts on live shows Subscribe to episodes: Apple | Spotify | Amazon | Google | YouTube Follow Us: Instagram | Twitter | Facebook | YouTube Follow Lee: Instagram | Twitter Join our Email List: nosmallendeavor.com Become a Subscriber: NSE+ See Privacy Policy: Privacy Policy Amazon Affiliate Disclosure: Tokens Media, LLC is a participant in the Amazon Services LLC Associates Program, an affiliate advertising program designed to provide a means for sites to earn advertising fees by advertising and linking to Amazon.com. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Should Christians condone war? There is a long history of debate among Christians regarding the use of violence. Is “turning the other cheek” an excuse to take oppression lying down? Should Christians adhere to national military obligations? Is there such a thing as a “just war,” or is all killing anti-Christian? Michael Budde has been studying these questions for a long time. In this episode, he discusses why he thinks Christians are called to total non-violence, why nationalism is responsible for many of the church’s historical failings, and what a counter-cultural version of faith might look like. Show Notes Similar episodes: Taking the Beatitudes Seriously: John Dear The Business of War: Justin Barringer Actor and Activist: Martin Sheen Randall Balmer: Race and the Rise of the Religious Right Resources mentioned this episode Just War as Christian Discipleship by Daniel Bell No Bars to Manhood by Daniel Berrigan PDF of Lee’s Interview Notes Transcription Link Join NSE+ Our subscriber only community with bonus episodes, ad-free listening, and discounts on live shows Subscribe to episodes: Apple | Spotify | Amazon | Google | YouTube Follow Us: Instagram | Twitter | Facebook | YouTube Follow Lee: Instagram | Twitter Join our Email List: nosmallendeavor.com Become a Subscriber: NSE+ See Privacy Policy: Privacy Policy Amazon Affiliate Disclosure: Tokens Media, LLC is a participant in the Amazon Services LLC Associates Program, an affiliate advertising program designed to provide a means for sites to earn advertising fees by advertising and linking to Amazon.com. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

This is our unabridged episode with Zac Davis and Ashley McKinless, co-hosts of Jesuitical. Do young people care about religion? Zac Davis and Ashley McKinless have good reason to think so. Together, they host the Jesuitical podcast, which explicitly calls itself “a podcast for young Catholics.” “Most people are left with trying to solve 27-year-old problems with an eighth grade religious formation,” says Zac. The solution, they believe, is not to take one’s religion less seriously, but more. In this episode, they discuss the landscape of faith for young people in today's culture, as well as some of the pressing issues of abuse and injustice that they believe the Church, and American society at large, must address. Show Notes Similar episodes: How Celebrity Culture is Hurting the Church: Katelyn Beaty Actor and Activist: Martin Sheen Randall Balmer: Race and the Rise of the Religious Right Resources mentioned this episode: Jesuitical podcast PDF of Lee’s Interview Notes Transcript for Abridged Episode Join NSE+ Our subscriber only community with bonus episodes, ad-free listening, and discounts on live shows Subscribe to episodes: Apple | Spotify | Amazon | Google | YouTube Follow Us: Instagram | Twitter | Facebook | YouTube Follow Lee: Instagram | Twitter Join our Email List: nosmallendeavor.com Become a Subscriber: NSE+ See Privacy Policy: Privacy Policy Amazon Affiliate Disclosure: Tokens Media, LLC is a participant in the Amazon Services LLC Associates Program, an affiliate advertising program designed to provide a means for sites to earn advertising fees by advertising and linking to Amazon.com. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Do young people care about religion? Zac Davis and Ashley McKinless have good reason to think so. Together, they host the Jesuitical podcast, which explicitly calls itself “a podcast for young Catholics.” “Most people are left with trying to solve 27-year-old problems with an eighth grade religious formation,” says Zac. The solution, they believe, is not to take one’s religion less seriously, but more. In this episode, they discuss the landscape of faith for young people in today's culture, as well as some of the pressing issues of abuse and injustice that they believe the Church, and American society at large, must address. Show Notes Similar episodes: How Celebrity Culture is Hurting the Church: Katelyn Beaty Actor and Activist: Martin Sheen Randall Balmer: Race and the Rise of the Religious Right Resources mentioned this episode: Jesuitical podcast PDF of Lee’s Interview Notes Transcript Link Join NSE+ Our subscriber only community with bonus episodes, ad-free listening, and discounts on live shows Subscribe to episodes: Apple | Spotify | Amazon | Google | YouTube Follow Us: Instagram | Twitter | Facebook | YouTube Follow Lee: Instagram | Twitter Join our Email List: nosmallendeavor.com Become a Subscriber: NSE+ See Privacy Policy: Privacy Policy Amazon Affiliate Disclosure: Tokens Media, LLC is a participant in the Amazon Services LLC Associates Program, an affiliate advertising program designed to provide a means for sites to earn advertising fees by advertising and linking to Amazon.com. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Today, we’re sharing a special episode from The Gist—hosted by Mike Pesca. Rainn Wilson is the host of Peacock's The Geography Of Bliss, based on the book of the same name written by Eric Weiner. Like Weiner before him, Wilson (who played the legendary Dwight Schrute on The Office) travels the world in search of locally sourced happiness secrets. For some reason, Mike gives them both a hard time, and everyone winds up angrier at each other than one might expect from an exploration of bliss. Mike Pesca has established a seven-year connection to his audience as host of The Gist. For thirty minutes each day, Pesca challenges himself and his audience, in a responsibly provocative style, and gets beyond the rigidity and dogma. The Gist is surprising, reasonable, and willing to critique the left, the right, either party, or any idea. Listen to more episodes of The Gist and follow the podcast: https://pod.link/873667927 Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

This is our unabridged episode with Kelly Corrigan. “What percentage of all pain in the world is related to wanting to belong?” Kelly Corrigan - who you may know as a New York Times bestselling author and the host of a number of popular radio and TV shows - was a young mother of two when she and her beloved father were both diagnosed with cancer. It was, to say the least, an immensely difficult time. Yet, she found her way through it by relying heavily on her tendency to be vulnerable, rather than hiding her pain from others. “It's just fodder for us to be closer,” she says of her suffering. “The point is to connect.” In this episode, she shares her story, along with much wisdom gleaned from a life of leaning into vulnerability. Show Notes Similar episodes: Amy Grant: Fame, Vulnerability, and Staying Grounded William Paul Young: Author of The Shack Curt Thompson: The Power of Being Known Resources mentioned this episode: Tell Me More by Kelly Corrigan The Middle Place by Kelly Corrigan Tell Me More on PBS Kelly Corrigan Wonders podcast PDF of Lee’s Interview Notes Transcript Link for Abridged Episode Join NSE+ Our subscriber only community with bonus episodes, ad-free listening, and discounts on live shows Subscribe to episodes: Apple | Spotify | Amazon | Google | YouTube Follow Us: Instagram | Twitter | Facebook | YouTube Follow Lee: Instagram | Twitter Join our Email List: nosmallendeavor.com Become a Subscriber: NSE+ See Privacy Policy: Privacy Policy Amazon Affiliate Disclosure: Tokens Media, LLC is a participant in the Amazon Services LLC Associates Program, an affiliate advertising program designed to provide a means for sites to earn advertising fees by advertising and linking to Amazon.com. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

“What percentage of all pain in the world is related to wanting to belong?” Kelly Corrigan - who you may know as a New York Times bestselling author and the host of a number of popular radio and TV shows - was a young mother of two when she and her beloved father were both diagnosed with cancer. It was, to say the least, an immensely difficult time. Yet, she found her way through it by relying heavily on her tendency to be vulnerable, rather than hiding her pain from others. “It's just fodder for us to be closer,” she says of her suffering. “The point is to connect.” In this episode, she shares her story, along with much wisdom gleaned from a life of leaning into vulnerability. Show Notes Similar episodes: Amy Grant: Fame, Vulnerability, and Staying Grounded William Paul Young: Author of The Shack Curt Thompson: The Power of Being Known Resources mentioned this episode: Tell Me More by Kelly Corrigan The Middle Place by Kelly Corrigan Tell Me More on PBS Kelly Corrigan Wonders podcast PDF of Lee’s Interview Notes Transcript Link Join NSE+ Our subscriber only community with bonus episodes, ad-free listening, and discounts on live shows Subscribe to episodes: Apple | Spotify | Amazon | Google | YouTube Follow Us: Instagram | Twitter | Facebook | YouTube Follow Lee: Instagram | Twitter Join our Email List: nosmallendeavor.com Become a Subscriber: NSE+ See Privacy Policy: Privacy Policy Amazon Affiliate Disclosure: Tokens Media, LLC is a participant in the Amazon Services LLC Associates Program, an affiliate advertising program designed to provide a means for sites to earn advertising fees by advertising and linking to Amazon.com. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

This is our unabridged episode with Jennifer Wiseman. Astrophysicist Jennifer Wiseman is no stranger to wonder. Spending her days studying the formation of stars and planets, she often finds herself in awe of both the vastness of the universe and its intricate detail. She’s also a practicing Christian, who sees science as complementary rather than contrary to her faith. And did we mention she discovered a comet while on a college field trip? In this episode, taped in front of a live audience at Nashville’s Sudekum Planetarium under a projection of images from the James Webb Telescope, she discusses her work and her faith, and how their intersection might give helpful insight about the meaning of our lives. Show Notes Similar episodes: Science, Faith, and Einstein: Alister McGrath The Francis Collins Interview The (Not Really) War Between Science and Faith: David Wilkinson Resources mentioned this episode: Webb Telescope Website PDF of Lee’s Interview Notes Transcript for Abridged Episode Join NSE+ Our subscriber only community with bonus episodes, ad-free listening, and discounts on live shows Subscribe to episodes: Apple | Spotify | Amazon | Google | YouTube Follow Us: Instagram | Twitter | Facebook | YouTube Follow Lee: Instagram | Twitter Join our Email List: nosmallendeavor.com Become a Subscriber: NSE+ See Privacy Policy: Privacy Policy Amazon Affiliate Disclosure: Tokens Media, LLC is a participant in the Amazon Services LLC Associates Program, an affiliate advertising program designed to provide a means for sites to earn advertising fees by advertising and linking to Amazon.com. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Astrophysicist Jennifer Wiseman is no stranger to wonder. Spending her days studying the formation of stars and planets, she often finds herself in awe of both the vastness of the universe and its intricate detail. She’s also a practicing Christian, who sees science as complementary rather than contrary to her faith. And did we mention she discovered a comet while on a college field trip? In this episode, taped in front of a live audience at Nashville’s Sudekum Planetarium under a projection of images from the James Webb Telescope, she discusses her work and her faith, and how their intersection might give helpful insight about the meaning of our lives. Show Notes Similar episodes: Science, Faith, and Einstein: Alister McGrath The Francis Collins Interview The (Not Really) War Between Science and Faith: David Wilkinson Resources mentioned this episode: Webb Telescope Website PDF of Lee’s Interview Notes Transcript Join NSE+ Our subscriber only community with bonus episodes, ad-free listening, and discounts on live shows Subscribe to episodes: Apple | Spotify | Amazon | Google | YouTube Follow Us: Instagram | Twitter | Facebook | YouTube Follow Lee: Instagram | Twitter Join our Email List: nosmallendeavor.com Become a Subscriber: NSE+ See Privacy Policy: Privacy Policy Amazon Affiliate Disclosure: Tokens Media, LLC is a participant in the Amazon Services LLC Associates Program, an affiliate advertising program designed to provide a means for sites to earn advertising fees by advertising and linking to Amazon.com. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

This is our unabridged interview with Meghan O’Gieblyn. Will technology change what it means to be human? Thanks to the rise and implementation of Artificial Intelligence (AI), the common sci-fi trope of a machine-perpetuated apocalypse has taken on a new gravity in recent days. But is Chat GPT really going to rebel against humans, or even change things very much at all? “We're at the point where we do have technologies that are incredibly powerful,” says writer and commentator Meghan O’Gieblyn. “They're able to do things that they weren't programmed to do.” In this episode, Meghan discusses AI in great detail, and lays out what she believes to be the social, political, ethical, and even theological issues at stake as humanity learns to live with new technology.  Show Notes Similar episodes: The Price of the Pursuit of Pleasure: Anna Lembke The Most Polarized Issue in the United States: Katharine Hayhoe Beyond Fake News: Justin McBrayer Resources mentioned this episode: Meghan’s website God, Human, Animal, Machine by Meghan O’Gieblyn PDF of Lee’s Interview Notes Transcript for Abridged Episode Join NSE+ Our subscriber only community with bonus episodes, ad-free listening, and discounts on live shows Subscribe to episodes: Apple | Spotify | Amazon | Google | YouTube Follow Us: Instagram | Twitter | Facebook | YouTube Follow Lee: Instagram | Twitter Join our Email List: nosmallendeavor.com See Privacy Policy: Privacy Policy Amazon Affiliate Disclosure: Tokens Media, LLC is a participant in the Amazon Services LLC Associates Program, an affiliate advertising program designed to provide a means for sites to earn advertising fees by advertising and linking to Amazon.com. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Will technology change what it means to be human? Thanks to the rise and implementation of Artificial Intelligence (AI), the common sci-fi trope of a machine-perpetuated apocalypse has taken on a new gravity in recent days. But is Chat GPT really going to rebel against humans, or even change things very much at all? “We're at the point where we do have technologies that are incredibly powerful,” says writer and commentator Meghan O’Gieblyn. “They're able to do things that they weren't programmed to do.” In this episode, Meghan discusses AI in great detail, and lays out what she believes to be the social, political, ethical, and even theological issues at stake as humanity learns to live with new technology.  Show Notes Similar episodes: The Price of the Pursuit of Pleasure: Anna Lembke The Most Polarized Issue in the United States: Katharine Hayhoe Beyond Fake News: Justin McBrayer Resources mentioned this episode: Meghan’s website God, Human, Animal, Machine by Meghan O’Gieblyn PDF of Lee’s Interview Notes Transcript Join NSE+ Our subscriber only community with bonus episodes, ad-free listening, and discounts on live shows Subscribe to episodes: Apple | Spotify | Amazon | Google | YouTube Follow Us: Instagram | Twitter | Facebook | YouTube Follow Lee: Instagram | Twitter Join our Email List: nosmallendeavor.com See Privacy Policy: Privacy Policy Amazon Affiliate Disclosure: Tokens Media, LLC is a participant in the Amazon Services LLC Associates Program, an affiliate advertising program designed to provide a means for sites to earn advertising fees by advertising and linking to Amazon.com. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Five weeks before her 16th birthday in 1976, Amy Grant was offered her first record deal. Now, after tens of millions of record sales, six Grammy awards, a star on the Hollywood Walk of Fame, and a receipt of Kennedy Center Honors, she is widely recognized as the “Queen of Christian Pop.” From the outside, one might assume that Amy must be a character with a personality larger than life. But in this exclusive interview, Amy opens up about her career as a singer, her family life, and her faith, all against the backdrop of a troubling past few years which have included recovering from open-heart surgery and a severe bike accident. Through it all, she showcases what truly makes her an anomaly. In spite of her fame, she remains undoubtedly grounded to a life of quiet, peaceful fulfillment. Show Notes: Similar episodes Truth-telling, Anger, and Race: Vince Gill “Does This Make My Butt Look Big?”: Ashley Cleveland Fighting Dragons and Singing at Loss: Drew Holcomb Actor and Activist: Martin Sheen Resources mentioned this episode Amy Grant’s website PDF of Lee’s Interview Notes Transcript for Abridged Episode JOIN NSE+ Today! Our subscriber only community with bonus episodes, ad-free listening, and discounts on live shows Subscribe to episodes: Apple | Spotify | Amazon | Google | YouTube Follow Us: Instagram | Twitter | Facebook | YouTube Follow Lee: Instagram | Twitter Join our Email List: nosmallendeavor.com See Privacy Policy: Privacy Policy Amazon Affiliate Disclosure: Tokens Media, LLC is a participant in the Amazon Services LLC Associates Program, an affiliate advertising program designed to provide a means for sites to earn advertising fees by advertising and linking to Amazon.com. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Five weeks before her 16th birthday in 1976, Amy Grant was offered her first record deal. Now, after tens of millions of record sales, six Grammy awards, a star on the Hollywood Walk of Fame, and a receipt of Kennedy Center Honors, she is widely recognized as the “Queen of Christian Pop.” From the outside, one might assume that Amy must be a character with a personality larger than life. But in this exclusive interview, Amy opens up about her career as a singer, her family life, and her faith, all against the backdrop of a troubling past few years which have included recovering from open-heart surgery and a severe bike accident. Through it all, she showcases what truly makes her an anomaly. In spite of her fame, she remains undoubtedly grounded to a life of quiet, peaceful fulfillment. Show Notes: Similar episodes Truth-telling, Anger, and Race: Vince Gill “Does This Make My Butt Look Big?”: Ashley Cleveland Fighting Dragons and Singing at Loss: Drew Holcomb Actor and Activist: Martin Sheen Resources mentioned this episode Amy Grant’s website PDF of Lee’s Interview Notes Transcription Link JOIN NSE+ Today! Our subscriber only community with bonus episodes, ad-free listening, and discounts on live shows Subscribe to episodes: Apple | Spotify | Amazon | Google | YouTube Follow Us: Instagram | Twitter | Facebook | YouTube Follow Lee: Instagram | Twitter Join our Email List: nosmallendeavor.com See Privacy Policy: Privacy Policy Amazon Affiliate Disclosure: Tokens Media, LLC is a participant in the Amazon Services LLC Associates Program, an affiliate advertising program designed to provide a means for sites to earn advertising fees by advertising and linking to Amazon.com. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

We’re excited to announce our new subscriber program NSE+, a $5/month subscription including a monthly bonus episode from Lee Camp, designed to give you practical steps based on the conversations we have on No Small Endeavor. PLUS, with a subscription you’ll receive ad-free listening and discounts to our live shows. This monthly bonus conversation between Lee Camp and producer, Jakob Lewis, highlights practices and habits they have learned from the many guests on the show over the years. They also speak openly and honestly about the many hindrances and struggles they have pursuing a good life. We'll walk you through practices on the podcast and invite you in to participate and share your experiences, to be featured or discussed on NSE+. JOIN TODAY Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

This is our unabridged episode with Robert Waldinger and Marc Schulz. For all our modern so-called progress, global happiness levels have been consistently going down, especially in the richest and most developed countries. So what does it really take to be happy? Since 1938, Harvard scientists have been closely studying the lives of over 700 individuals to answer that very question. In this episode, two of the scientists who are now in charge of the study - Robert Waldinger and Marc Schulz - discuss the results of what is known as the “world’s longest study on happiness,” and describe why they believe that meaningful relationships are the key to living a long, happy, flourishing life. Show Notes: Similar episodes David Desteno: Can Religion Make You Happier? The Price of the Pursuit of Pleasure: Anna Lembke and John Mark Comer The Power of Being Known: Curt Thompson The Art of Conversation: Heather Holleman Resources mentioned this episode The Good Life by Robert Waldinger and Marc Schulz Robert Waldinger’s TED Talk Bowling Alone by Robert Putnam WISER tool for relationships: Watch, Interpret, Select, Engage, and Reflect PDF of Lee’s Interview Notes Transcription Link for Abridged Episode JOIN NSE+ Today! Our subscriber only community with bonus episodes, ad-free listening, and discounts on live shows Subscribe to episodes: Apple | Spotify | Amazon | Google | YouTube Follow Us: Instagram | Twitter | Facebook | YouTube Follow Lee: Instagram | Twitter Join our Email List: nosmallendeavor.com See Privacy Policy: Privacy Policy Amazon Affiliate Disclosure: Tokens Media, LLC is a participant in the Amazon Services LLC Associates Program, an affiliate advertising program designed to provide a means for sites to earn advertising fees by advertising and linking to Amazon.com. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

For all our modern so-called progress, global happiness levels have been consistently going down, especially in the richest and most developed countries. So what does it really take to be happy? Since 1938, Harvard scientists have been closely studying the lives of over 700 individuals to answer that very question. In this episode, two of the scientists who are now in charge of the study - Robert Waldinger and Marc Schulz - discuss the results of what is known as the “world’s longest study on happiness,” and describe why they believe that meaningful relationships are the key to living a long, happy, flourishing life. Show Notes: Similar episodes David Desteno: Can Religion Make You Happier? The Price of the Pursuit of Pleasure: Anna Lembke and John Mark Comer The Power of Being Known: Curt Thompson The Art of Conversation: Heather Holleman Resources mentioned this episode The Good Life by Robert Waldinger and Marc Schulz Robert Waldinger’s TED Talk Bowling Alone by Robert Putnam WISER tool for relationships: Watch, Interpret, Select, Engage, and Reflect PDF of Lee’s Interview Notes Transcription Link JOIN NSE+ Today! Our subscriber only community with bonus episodes, ad-free listening, and discounts on live shows Subscribe to episodes: Apple | Spotify | Amazon | Google | YouTube Follow Us: Instagram | Twitter | Facebook | YouTube Follow Lee: Instagram | Twitter Join our Email List: nosmallendeavor.com See Privacy Policy: Privacy Policy Amazon Affiliate Disclosure: Tokens Media, LLC is a participant in the Amazon Services LLC Associates Program, an affiliate advertising program designed to provide a means for sites to earn advertising fees by advertising and linking to Amazon.com. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

This is our unabridged episode with William Paul Young. At age 50, William Paul Young wrote the New York Times best-selling novel “The Shack” as a gift to his kids—only printing copies for his family and friends. Today, it has sold 25 million copies and been turned into a major motion picture. 11 years prior to writing “The Shack,” Paul’s wife discovered he was having an extra-marital affair. With nothing left to hide, he began a journey toward healing and wholeness: dealing with childhood abuse, religious trauma, a host of broken relationships, and a life of constant, exhausting image-management. Subsequently, he wrote “The Shack” in an attempt to express the nature of what he calls “Divine Love”. In this episode, Paul shares how love, grace, and healing only happen in the present moment, wisdom he gleaned from seeing his own life saved from the brink of falling apart. Show Notes: Similar episodes Parker Palmer: Courage, Vocation, Paradox Actor and Activist: Martin Sheen The Power of Being Known: Curt Thompson Resources mentioned this episode The Shack by William Paul Young The Body Keeps The Score by Bessel van der Kolk PDF of Lee’s Interview Notes Transcription Link for Abridged Episode JOIN NSE+ Today! Our subscriber only community with bonus episodes, ad-free listening, and discounts on live shows Subscribe to episodes: Apple | Spotify | Amazon | Google | YouTube Follow Us: Instagram | Twitter | Facebook | YouTube Follow Lee: Instagram | Twitter Join our Email List: nosmallendeavor.com See Privacy Policy: Privacy Policy Amazon Affiliate Disclosure: Tokens Media, LLC is a participant in the Amazon Services LLC Associates Program, an affiliate advertising program designed to provide a means for sites to earn advertising fees by advertising and linking to Amazon.com. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

At age 50, William Paul Young wrote the New York Times best-selling novel “The Shack” as a gift to his kids—only printing copies for his family and friends. Today, it has sold 25 million copies and been turned into a major motion picture. 11 years prior to writing “The Shack,” Paul’s wife discovered he was having an extra-marital affair. With nothing left to hide, he began a journey toward healing and wholeness: dealing with childhood abuse, religious trauma, a host of broken relationships, and a life of constant, exhausting image-management. Subsequently, he wrote “The Shack” in an attempt to express the nature of what he calls “Divine Love”. In this episode, Paul shares how love, grace, and healing only happen in the present moment, wisdom he gleaned from seeing his own life saved from the brink of falling apart. Show Notes: Similar episodes Parker Palmer: Courage, Vocation, Paradox Actor and Activist: Martin Sheen The Power of Being Known: Curt Thompson Resources mentioned this episode The Shack by William Paul Young The Body Keeps The Score by Bessel van der Kolk PDF of Lee’s Interview Notes Transcription Link Subscribe to episodes: Apple | Spotify | Amazon | Google | YouTube Follow Us: Instagram | Twitter | Facebook | YouTube Follow Lee: Instagram | Twitter Join our Email List: nosmallendeavor.com Become a Member: Virtual Only | Standard | Premium See Privacy Policy: Privacy Policy Shop No Small Endeavor Merch: Scandalous Witness Course | Scandalous Witness Book |  Joy & the Good Life Course Amazon Affiliate Disclosure: Tokens Media, LLC is a participant in the Amazon Services LLC Associates Program, an affiliate advertising program designed to provide a means for sites to earn advertising fees by advertising and linking to Amazon.com. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

This is our unabridged interview with Esau McCaulley. What is it like growing up Black in the American South? The question is too particular to answer with abstraction. Instead, Esau McCaulley answers it in the most personal, humble way available, by telling the story of his family in his new memoir, “How Far to the Promised Land: One Black Family's Story of Hope and Survival in the American South.” When he was asked to give the eulogy at his father’s funeral, Esau was sparked to examine his own childhood and dig into his family’s past. In the process, he engaged with the complexity of US history, and its impact on some of the most important questions of our time. In this episode, Esau discusses what he uncovered, and, careful not to generalize, describes what the experience taught him about race, faith, and the culture of the South in the United States. Show Notes: Similar episodes The Architect of the American Civil Rights Movement: James Lawson Doing Justice Alongside MLK and Rosa Parks: Dr. Fred Gray Eddie Glaude: On James Baldwin’s America Thou Shalt Not Be a Jerk: Eugene Cho White Too Long: Robert Jones Resources mentioned this episode How Far to the Promised Land by Esau McCaulley PDF of Lee’s Interview Notes Transcription Link for Abridged Episode JOIN NSE+ Today! Our subscriber only community with bonus episodes, ad-free listening, and discounts on live shows Subscribe to episodes: Apple | Spotify | Amazon | Google | YouTube Follow Us: Instagram | Twitter | Facebook | YouTube Follow Lee: Instagram | Twitter Join our Email List: nosmallendeavor.com See Privacy Policy: Privacy Policy Amazon Affiliate Disclosure: Tokens Media, LLC is a participant in the Amazon Services LLC Associates Program, an affiliate advertising program designed to provide a means for sites to earn advertising fees by advertising and linking to Amazon.com. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

What is it like growing up Black in the American South? The question is too particular to answer with abstraction. Instead, Esau McCaulley answers it in the most personal, humble way available, by telling the story of his family in his new memoir, “How Far to the Promised Land: One Black Family's Story of Hope and Survival in the American South.” When he was asked to give the eulogy at his father’s funeral, Esau was sparked to examine his own childhood and dig into his family’s past. In the process, he engaged with the complexity of US history, and its impact on some of the most important questions of our time. In this episode, Esau discusses what he uncovered, and, careful not to generalize, describes what the experience taught him about race, faith, and the culture of the South in the United States. Show Notes: Similar episodes The Architect of the American Civil Rights Movement: James Lawson Doing Justice Alongside MLK and Rosa Parks: Dr. Fred Gray Eddie Glaude: On James Baldwin’s America Thou Shalt Not Be a Jerk: Eugene Cho White Too Long: Robert Jones Resources mentioned this episode How Far to the Promised Land by Esau McCaulley PDF of Lee’s Interview Notes Transcription Link Subscribe to episodes: Apple | Spotify | Amazon | Google | YouTube Follow Us: Instagram | Twitter | Facebook | YouTube Follow Lee: Instagram | Twitter Join our Email List: nosmallendeavor.com Become a Member: Virtual Only | Standard | Premium See Privacy Policy: Privacy Policy Shop No Small Endeavor Merch: Scandalous Witness Course | Scandalous Witness Book |  Joy & the Good Life Course Amazon Affiliate Disclosure: Tokens Media, LLC is a participant in the Amazon Services LLC Associates Program, an affiliate advertising program designed to provide a means for sites to earn advertising fees by advertising and linking to Amazon.com. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

This is our unabridged interview with Eddie Glaude. Why are there different narratives around race in the United States? Some believe that the US is a “shining city on a hill” which stands as a beacon of truth and justice in the world. But those paying attention to the country’s inner conflicts - most notably its violent, graphic history of deep-seated racism - sense some major contradictions in such a narrative. To use the famous words of James Baldwin, such idealism is “The Lie” that the country has been trying to preserve since its inception. In this episode, Dr. Eddie Glaude discusses his book Begin Again: James Baldwin's America and Its Urgent Lessons for Our Own, which calls for a reckoning for the people and institutions responsible for perpetuating “The Lie,” and offers hopeful counter-truth that he believes can help us reform and reset after the wrongs that have been done. Show Notes Similar episodes: The Architect of the American Civil Rights Movement: James Lawson Doing Justice Alongside MLK and Rosa Parks: Dr. Fred Gray Tuskegee, Healthcare, Justice: Quincy Byrdsong Resources mentioned this episode: Begin Again: James Baldwin’s America and Its Urgent Lessons for Our Own by Eddie Glaude PDF of Lee’s Interview Notes Transcription Link Subscribe to episodes: Apple | Spotify | Amazon | Google | YouTube Follow Us: Instagram | Twitter | Facebook | YouTube Follow Lee: Instagram | Twitter Join our Email List: nosmallendeavor.com Become a Member: Virtual Only | Standard | Premium See Privacy Policy: Privacy Policy Shop No Small Endeavor Merch: Scandalous Witness Course | Scandalous Witness Book |  Joy & the Good Life Course Amazon Affiliate Disclosure: Tokens Media, LLC is a participant in the Amazon Services LLC Associates Program, an affiliate advertising program designed to provide a means for sites to earn advertising fees by advertising and linking to Amazon.com. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Why are there different narratives around race in the United States? Some believe that the US is a “shining city on a hill” which stands as a beacon of truth and justice in the world. But those paying attention to the country’s inner conflicts - most notably its violent, graphic history of deep-seated racism - sense some major contradictions in such a narrative. To use the famous words of James Baldwin, such idealism is “The Lie” that the country has been trying to preserve since its inception. In this episode, Dr. Eddie Glaude discusses his book Begin Again: James Baldwin's America and Its Urgent Lessons for Our Own, which calls for a reckoning for the people and institutions responsible for perpetuating “The Lie,” and offers hopeful counter-truth that he believes can help us reform and reset after the wrongs that have been done. Show Notes Similar episodes: The Architect of the American Civil Rights Movement: James Lawson Doing Justice Alongside MLK and Rosa Parks: Dr. Fred Gray Tuskegee, Healthcare, Justice: Quincy Byrdsong Resources mentioned this episode: Begin Again: James Baldwin’s America and Its Urgent Lessons for Our Own by Eddie Glaude PDF of Lee’s Interview Notes Transcription Link Subscribe to episodes: Apple | Spotify | Amazon | Google | YouTube Follow Us: Instagram | Twitter | Facebook | YouTube Follow Lee: Instagram | Twitter Join our Email List: nosmallendeavor.com Become a Member: Virtual Only | Standard | Premium See Privacy Policy: Privacy Policy Shop No Small Endeavor Merch: Scandalous Witness Course | Scandalous Witness Book |  Joy & the Good Life Course Amazon Affiliate Disclosure: Tokens Media, LLC is a participant in the Amazon Services LLC Associates Program, an affiliate advertising program designed to provide a means for sites to earn advertising fees by advertising and linking to Amazon.com. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

This is our unabridged interview with David Desteno. Does religion make you happier? These days, many of us are prone to see religion as an artifact of pre-scientific humanity, full of non-scientific claims. For that reason, religion often gets written off as having no measurable value for everyday life. But what if the so-called goods of religion could be studied? In his most recent book How God Works, psychologist David DeSteno, suggests that religion has indeed been studied in this way, and that the results could change the way religion is viewed in the public sphere. In this episode, we hear from David as he discusses the ways the world’s great religious traditions line up with cutting-edge psychological and neuroscientific findings - in other words, the ways in which religion leads to a longer, happier, healthier life. Show Notes: Similar episodes The Power of Being Known: Curt Thompson What Hath Christianity to do with Psychology?: Mark McMinn The Power of Sabbath Rest: Judith Shulevitz Seven Ways to Ruin Your Life: Rebecca DeYoung Resources mentioned this episode How God Works by David Desteno How God Works Podcast PDF of Lee’s Interview Notes Transcription Link Subscribe to episodes: Apple | Spotify | Amazon | Google | YouTube Follow Us: Instagram | Twitter | Facebook | YouTube Follow Lee: Instagram | Twitter Join our Email List: nosmallendeavor.com Become a Member: Virtual Only | Standard | Premium See Privacy Policy: Privacy Policy Shop No Small Endeavor Merch: Scandalous Witness Course | Scandalous Witness Book |  Joy & the Good Life Course Amazon Affiliate Disclosure: Tokens Media, LLC is a participant in the Amazon Services LLC Associates Program, an affiliate advertising program designed to provide a means for sites to earn advertising fees by advertising and linking to Amazon.com. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Does religion make you happier? These days, many of us are prone to see religion as an artifact of pre-scientific humanity, full of non-scientific claims. For that reason, religion often gets written off as having no measurable value for everyday life. But what if the so-called goods of religion could be studied? In his most recent book How God Works, psychologist David DeSteno, suggests that religion has indeed been studied in this way, and that the results could change the way religion is viewed in the public sphere. In this episode, we hear from David as he discusses the ways the world’s great religious traditions line up with cutting-edge psychological and neuroscientific findings - in other words, the ways in which religion leads to a longer, happier, healthier life. Show Notes: Similar episodes The Power of Being Known: Curt Thompson What Hath Christianity to do with Psychology?: Mark McMinn The Power of Sabbath Rest: Judith Shulevitz Seven Ways to Ruin Your Life: Rebecca DeYoung Resources mentioned this episode How God Works by David Desteno How God Works Podcast PDF of Lee’s Interview Notes Transcription Link Subscribe to episodes: Apple | Spotify | Amazon | Google | YouTube Follow Us: Instagram | Twitter | Facebook | YouTube Follow Lee: Instagram | Twitter Join our Email List: nosmallendeavor.com Become a Member: Virtual Only | Standard | Premium See Privacy Policy: Privacy Policy Shop No Small Endeavor Merch: Scandalous Witness Course | Scandalous Witness Book |  Joy & the Good Life Course Amazon Affiliate Disclosure: Tokens Media, LLC is a participant in the Amazon Services LLC Associates Program, an affiliate advertising program designed to provide a means for sites to earn advertising fees by advertising and linking to Amazon.com. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

This is our unabridged interview with Johnnyswim. What is it like to be a famous musical duo, on the road all the time, and married with kids? That’s the life of Amanda Sudano and Abner Ramirez, more widely known as folk-pop band Johnnyswim, whose eclectic life is put on full display in their two reality television shows, “The Johnnyswim Show” and “In the Kitchen with Abner + Amanda.” Amanda's mother was the legendary Disco Queen Donna Summer; meanwhile, Abner's family experienced the intense political turmoil of 20th century Cuba, emigrating to the United States in the Mariel Boatlift in 1980. In this exclusive interview, they discuss everything from family history, to touring life, to activism and faith. Plus, we include their musical performance from a No Small Endeavor show at the Ryman Auditorium in Nashville. Show Notes: Similar episodes Actor and Activist: Martin Sheen Why The New Respects Ain’t Goin’ Nowhere Thou Shalt Not Be a Jerk: Eugene Cho Resources mentioned this episode Johnnyswim’s Website “Ring the Bells” live performance at the Ryman PDF of Lee’s Interview Notes Transcription Link Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

What is it like to be a famous musical duo, on the road all the time, and married with kids? That’s the life of Amanda Sudano and Abner Ramirez, more widely known as folk-pop band Johnnyswim, whose eclectic life is put on full display in their two reality television shows, “The Johnnyswim Show” and “In the Kitchen with Abner + Amanda.” Amanda's mother was the legendary Disco Queen Donna Summer; meanwhile, Abner's family experienced the intense political turmoil of 20th century Cuba, emigrating to the United States in the Mariel Boatlift in 1980. In this exclusive interview, they discuss everything from family history, to touring life, to activism and faith. Plus, we include their musical performance from a No Small Endeavor show at the Ryman Auditorium in Nashville. Show Notes: Similar episodes Actor and Activist: Martin Sheen Why The New Respects Ain’t Goin’ Nowhere Thou Shalt Not Be a Jerk: Eugene Cho Resources mentioned this episode Johnnyswim’s Website “Ring the Bells” live performance at the Ryman PDF of Lee’s Interview Notes Transcription Link Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

This is our unabridged interview with Oliver Burkeman. In an age full of life hacks, self-help books, and productivity gurus, many of us only end up busier and more stressed than we were before. What if there’s a better way to live a full, fruitful life? "The world is bursting with wonder,” says Oliver Burkeman, “and yet it's the rare productivity guru who seems to have considered the possibility that the ultimate point of all our frenetic doing might be to experience more of that wonder." In this episode, he discusses his New York Times Bestselling book 4000 Weeks: Time Management for Mortals, dispelling many contemporary ideas about productivity, and instead suggesting a wonder-fueled, counterintuitive method for flourishing in the world. Show Notes: Similar episodes: Seven Ways to Ruin Your Life: Rebecca DeYoung The Ruthless Elimination of Hurry: John Mark Comer The Power of Sabbath Rest: Judith Shulevitz Resources mentioned in this episode A Testament of Devotion by Thomas Raymond Kelly Catherine Andrews, "Why You're Going About Recovering from Perfectionism All Wrong" Man’s Search for Meaning by Victor Frankl PDF of Lee’s Interview Notes Transcription Link Subscribe to episodes: Apple | Spotify | Amazon | Stitcher | Google | YouTube Follow Us: Instagram | Twitter | Facebook | YouTube Follow Lee: Instagram | Twitter Join our Email List: nosmallendeavor.com Become a Member: Virtual Only | Standard | Premium See Privacy Policy: Privacy Policy Shop No Small Endeavor Merch: Scandalous Witness Course | Scandalous Witness Book |  Joy & the Good Life Course Amazon Affiliate Disclosure: Tokens Media, LLC is a participant in the Amazon Services LLC Associates Program, an affiliate advertising program designed to provide a means for sites to earn advertising fees by advertising and linking to Amazon.com. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

In an age full of life hacks, self-help books, and productivity gurus, many of us only end up busier and more stressed than we were before. What if there’s a better way to live a full, fruitful life? "The world is bursting with wonder,” says Oliver Burkeman, “and yet it's the rare productivity guru who seems to have considered the possibility that the ultimate point of all our frenetic doing might be to experience more of that wonder." In this episode, he discusses his New York Times Bestselling book 4000 Weeks: Time Management for Mortals, dispelling many contemporary ideas about productivity, and instead suggesting a wonder-fueled, counterintuitive method for flourishing in the world. Show Notes: Similar episodes: Seven Ways to Ruin Your Life: Rebecca DeYoung The Ruthless Elimination of Hurry: John Mark Comer The Power of Sabbath Rest: Judith Shulevitz Resources mentioned in this episode A Testament of Devotion by Thomas Raymond Kelly Catherine Andrews, "Why You're Going About Recovering from Perfectionism All Wrong" Man’s Search for Meaning by Victor Frankl PDF of Lee’s Interview Notes Transcription Link Subscribe to episodes: Apple | Spotify | Amazon | Stitcher | Google | YouTube Follow Us: Instagram | Twitter | Facebook | YouTube Follow Lee: Instagram | Twitter Join our Email List: nosmallendeavor.com Become a Member: Virtual Only | Standard | Premium See Privacy Policy: Privacy Policy Shop No Small Endeavor Merch: Scandalous Witness Course | Scandalous Witness Book |  Joy & the Good Life Course Amazon Affiliate Disclosure: Tokens Media, LLC is a participant in the Amazon Services LLC Associates Program, an affiliate advertising program designed to provide a means for sites to earn advertising fees by advertising and linking to Amazon.com. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

This is our unabridged interview with Charles Strobel. On August 6th, 2023, at the age of 80, Charles Strobel, affectionately known as Charlie, left us. Today, we revisit our 2020 interview with him. A true Nashville icon, he was once hailed as "Tennesseean of the Year." As a Catholic priest and the visionary behind Room In The Inn, a Nashville-based non-profit dedicated to offering hospitality, education, community, and employment to those experiencing homelessness, Charlie's impact was immeasurable. Join us in this special episode where he shares captivating anecdotes from his life, recounting his journey from living among the homeless to founding a shelter for them. He candidly discusses his battles with depression and the transformative power of therapy. Incredibly, he opens up about his journey to forgive the individual who took his mother's life. Charlie's existence epitomized the essence of a well-lived life, making him an extraordinary example to us all. As we mourn his passing, let's celebrate the legacy he leaves behind. Show Notes: Similar episodes  Ending Violence Through Forgiveness: Azim Khamisa Burying 250 Friends: Greg Boyle on Community Amidst Gang Violence Resources mentioned this episode Room In The Inn Charlie’s Obituary Transcription Link for Abridged Episode PDF of Lee's Interview Notes Subscribe to episodes: Apple | Spotify | Amazon | Stitcher | Google | YouTube Follow Us: Instagram | Twitter | Facebook | YouTube Follow Lee: Instagram | Twitter  Join our Email List: nosmallendeavor.com Become a Member: Virtual Only | Standard | Premium See Privacy Policy: Privacy Policy  Shop No Small Endeavor Merch: Scandalous Witness Course | Scandalous Witness Book |  Joy & the Good Life Course  Amazon Affiliate Disclosure: Tokens Media, LLC is a participant in the Amazon Services LLC Associates Program, an affiliate advertising program designed to provide a means for sites to earn advertising fees by advertising and linking to Amazon.com. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

On August 6th, 2023, at the age of 80, Charles Strobel, affectionately known as Charlie, left us. Today, we revisit our 2020 interview with him. A true Nashville icon, he was once hailed as "Tennesseean of the Year." As a Catholic priest and the visionary behind Room In The Inn, a Nashville-based non-profit dedicated to offering hospitality, education, community, and employment to those experiencing homelessness, Charlie's impact was immeasurable. Join us in this special episode where he shares captivating anecdotes from his life, recounting his journey from living among the homeless to founding a shelter for them. He candidly discusses his battles with depression and the transformative power of therapy. Incredibly, he opens up about his journey to forgive the individual who took his mother's life. Charlie's existence epitomized the essence of a well-lived life, making him an extraordinary example to us all. As we mourn his passing, let's celebrate the legacy he leaves behind. Show Notes: Similar episodes  Ending Violence Through Forgiveness: Azim Khamisa Burying 250 Friends: Greg Boyle on Community Amidst Gang Violence Resources mentioned this episode Room In The Inn Charlie’s Obituary Transcription Link PDF of Lee's Interview Notes Subscribe to episodes: Apple | Spotify | Amazon | Stitcher | Google | YouTube Follow Us: Instagram | Twitter | Facebook | YouTube Follow Lee: Instagram | Twitter  Join our Email List: nosmallendeavor.com Become a Member: Virtual Only | Standard | Premium See Privacy Policy: Privacy Policy  Shop No Small Endeavor Merch: Scandalous Witness Course | Scandalous Witness Book |  Joy & the Good Life Course  Amazon Affiliate Disclosure: Tokens Media, LLC is a participant in the Amazon Services LLC Associates Program, an affiliate advertising program designed to provide a means for sites to earn advertising fees by advertising and linking to Amazon.com. See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

This is our unabridged interview with Elise Hu. What is beauty, and what role should it play in our lives? Beauty has long been seen as one the three “transcendentals” (along with truth and goodness) which have been valued at all times, in all places, by all cultures. But these days, the word “beauty” is often equated with standards of bodily presentation that, in an increasingly globalized and technological world, are reachable only by extreme measures of constant labor or cosmetic surgery. In this episode, Elise asks the question we’re all thinking: is that version of beauty good for us? She discusses her experience in a beauty-obsessed Korean culture, its effects on both women and men, and what a healthy relationship with beauty might look like. Show Notes: Similar episodes  The Price of the Pursuit of Pleasure: Anna Lembke Thou Shalt Not Be a Jerk: Eugene Cho Resources mentioned this episode Flawless by Elise Hu PDF of Lee’s Interview Notes Transcription Link for Abridged Episode Subscribe to episodes: Apple | Spotify | Amazon | Stitcher | Google | YouTube Follow Us: Instagram | Twitter | Facebook | YouTube Follow Lee: Instagram | Twitter  Join our Email List: nosmallendeavor.com Become a Member: Virtual Only | Standard | Premium See Privacy Policy: Privacy Policy  Shop No Small Endeavor Merch: Scandalous Witness Course | Scandalous Witness Book |  Joy & the Good Life Course  Amazon Affiliate Disclosure: Tokens Media, LLC is a participant in the Amazon Services LLC Associates Program, an affiliate advertising program designed to provide a means for sites to earn advertising fees by advertising and linking to Amazon.com. See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

What is beauty, and what role should it play in our lives? Beauty has long been seen as one the three “transcendentals” (along with truth and goodness) which have been valued at all times, in all places, by all cultures. But these days, the word “beauty” is often equated with standards of bodily presentation that, in an increasingly globalized and technological world, are reachable only by extreme measures of constant labor or cosmetic surgery. In this episode, Elise asks the question we’re all thinking: is that version of beauty good for us? She discusses her experience in a beauty-obsessed Korean culture, its effects on both women and men, and what a healthy relationship with beauty might look like. Show Notes: Similar episodes  The Price of the Pursuit of Pleasure: Anna Lembke Thou Shalt Not Be a Jerk: Eugene Cho Resources mentioned this episode Flawless by Elise Hu PDF of Lee’s Interview Notes Transcription Link Subscribe to episodes: Apple | Spotify | Amazon | Stitcher | Google | YouTube Follow Us: Instagram | Twitter | Facebook | YouTube Follow Lee: Instagram | Twitter  Join our Email List: nosmallendeavor.com Become a Member: Virtual Only | Standard | Premium See Privacy Policy: Privacy Policy  Shop No Small Endeavor Merch: Scandalous Witness Course | Scandalous Witness Book |  Joy & the Good Life Course  Amazon Affiliate Disclosure: Tokens Media, LLC is a participant in the Amazon Services LLC Associates Program, an affiliate advertising program designed to provide a means for sites to earn advertising fees by advertising and linking to Amazon.com. See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

This is our unabridged interview with Tish Harrison Warren. Does pluralism result in discrimination? Must one choose a political side, either on the Left or the Right? And how can an ordinary life be an exceptional one? These are all questions involving dichotomies that are commonly presented to us in our culture. But Tish Harrison Warren, an ordained Anglican priest and columnist for the New York Times, sees such dichotomies as false, and has spent her own life’s work breaking them down in whatever ways she can. In this episode, Tish discusses her experience as a campus minister in the midst of controversy at Vanderbilt University, what it’s like holding convictions while under fire from both sides of the political spectrum, and her award-winning book Liturgy of the Ordinary. Show Notes: Similar episodes  Kristin Du Mez Sits with David French Dorothy Day: Traditional, Radical, Christian “What Could Possibly Produce Someone with a Soul That Shallow?”: Stanley Hauerwas Resources mentioned this episode Liturgy of the Ordinary by Tish Harrison Warren Tish’s website Tish’s New York Times column PDF of Lee’s Interview Notes Transcription Link for Abridged Episode Subscribe to episodes: Apple | Spotify | Amazon | Stitcher | Google | YouTube Follow Us: Instagram | Twitter | Facebook | YouTube Follow Lee: Instagram | Twitter  Join our Email List: nosmallendeavor.com Become a Member: Virtual Only | Standard | Premium See Privacy Policy: Privacy Policy  Shop No Small Endeavor Merch: Scandalous Witness Course | Scandalous Witness Book |  Joy & the Good Life Course  Amazon Affiliate Disclosure: Tokens Media, LLC is a participant in the Amazon Services LLC Associates Program, an affiliate advertising program designed to provide a means for sites to earn advertising fees by advertising and linking to Amazon.com. See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Does pluralism result in discrimination? Must one choose a political side, either on the Left or the Right? And how can an ordinary life be an exceptional one? These are all questions involving dichotomies that are commonly presented to us in our culture. But Tish Harrison Warren, an ordained Anglican priest and columnist for the New York Times, sees such dichotomies as false, and has spent her own life’s work breaking them down in whatever ways she can. In this episode, Tish discusses her experience as a campus minister in the midst of controversy at Vanderbilt University, what it’s like holding convictions while under fire from both sides of the political spectrum, and her award-winning book Liturgy of the Ordinary. Show Notes: Similar episodes  Kristin Du Mez Sits with David French Dorothy Day: Traditional, Radical, Christian “What Could Possibly Produce Someone with a Soul That Shallow?”: Stanley Hauerwas Resources mentioned this episode Liturgy of the Ordinary by Tish Harrison Warren Tish’s website Tish’s New York Times column PDF of Lee’s Interview Notes Transcription Link Subscribe to episodes: Apple | Spotify | Amazon | Stitcher | Google | YouTube Follow Us: Instagram | Twitter | Facebook | YouTube Follow Lee: Instagram | Twitter  Join our Email List: nosmallendeavor.com Become a Member: Virtual Only | Standard | Premium See Privacy Policy: Privacy Policy  Shop No Small Endeavor Merch: Scandalous Witness Course | Scandalous Witness Book |  Joy & the Good Life Course  Amazon Affiliate Disclosure: Tokens Media, LLC is a participant in the Amazon Services LLC Associates Program, an affiliate advertising program designed to provide a means for sites to earn advertising fees by advertising and linking to Amazon.com. See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

This is our unabridged interview with Angela Duckworth. What do Olympic athletes, world-class artists, elite academics, and successful business executives have in common? Ivy League psychologist Angela Duckworth has spent her career researching this question, closely studying those folks at the top of their respective fields who are considered “high achievers.” Surprisingly, it turns out talent is not the answer. Neither is genius. “The common denominator,” she says, “is grit.” In this episode, she explains what she means by “grit,” discusses why it is such a crucial determinant for success, and offers highly practical methods for developing grit in one’s own life. Show Notes: Similar episodes Time Management for Mortals: Oliver Burkeman What it Takes to Live a Good Life: Meghan Sullivan Resources mentioned this episode Grit by Angela Duckworth Character Lab PDF of Lee’s Interview Notes Transcription Link for Abridged Episode Subscribe to episodes: Apple | Spotify | Amazon | Stitcher | Google | YouTube Follow Us: Instagram | Twitter | Facebook | YouTube Follow Lee: Instagram | Twitter  Join our Email List: nosmallendeavor.com Become a Member: Virtual Only | Standard | Premium See Privacy Policy: Privacy Policy  Shop No Small Endeavor Merch: Scandalous Witness Course | Scandalous Witness Book |  Joy & the Good Life Course  Amazon Affiliate Disclosure: Tokens Media, LLC is a participant in the Amazon Services LLC Associates Program, an affiliate advertising program designed to provide a means for sites to earn advertising fees by advertising and linking to Amazon.com. See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

What do Olympic athletes, world-class artists, elite academics, and successful business executives have in common? Ivy League psychologist Angela Duckworth has spent her career researching this question, closely studying those folks at the top of their respective fields who are considered “high achievers.” Surprisingly, it turns out talent is not the answer. Neither is genius. “The common denominator,” she says, “is grit.” In this episode, she explains what she means by “grit,” discusses why it is such a crucial determinant for success, and offers highly practical methods for developing grit in one’s own life.   Show Notes: Similar episodes Time Management for Mortals: Oliver Burkeman What it Takes to Live a Good Life: Meghan Sullivan Resources mentioned this episode Grit by Angela Duckworth Character Lab PDF of Lee’s Interview Notes Transcription Link Subscribe to episodes: Apple | Spotify | Amazon | Stitcher | Google | YouTube Follow Us: Instagram | Twitter | Facebook | YouTube Follow Lee: Instagram | Twitter  Join our Email List: nosmallendeavor.com Become a Member: Virtual Only | Standard | Premium See Privacy Policy: Privacy Policy  Shop No Small Endeavor Merch: Scandalous Witness Course | Scandalous Witness Book |  Joy & the Good Life Course  Amazon Affiliate Disclosure: Tokens Media, LLC is a participant in the Amazon Services LLC Associates Program, an affiliate advertising program designed to provide a means for sites to earn advertising fees by advertising and linking to Amazon.com. See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

This is Part II of our unabridged interview with Parker Palmer. “Things didn’t come together vocationally for me until I was 50.” Now 84 years old, Quaker writer, speaker, and activist Parker Palmer has much to say about living a good life. And in his experience, a good life is often hard-won and counterintuitive. In this episode, Parker covers a lot of ground, offering wisdom gleaned from a life lived at attention to the makings of a good life. He tells about his experience seeking and finding vocation, discovering how a rich life entails the embrace of paradox, and living through two major bouts of depression which gave him an increased attention to life’s small things.   Show Notes: Similar episodes Actor and Activist: Martin Sheen Author of The Shack: William Paul Young Resources mentioned this episode Let Your Life Speak by Parker Palmer The Courage to Teach by Parker Palmer PDF of Lee’s Interview Notes Transcription Link for Abridged Episode   Subscribe to episodes: Apple | Spotify | Amazon | Stitcher | Google | YouTube Follow Us: Instagram | Twitter | Facebook | YouTube Follow Lee: Instagram | Twitter  Join our Email List: nosmallendeavor.com Become a Member: Virtual Only | Standard | Premium See Privacy Policy: Privacy Policy  Shop No Small Endeavor Merch: Scandalous Witness Course | Scandalous Witness Book |  Joy & the Good Life Course  Amazon Affiliate Disclosure: Tokens Media, LLC is a participant in the Amazon Services LLC Associates Program, an affiliate advertising program designed to provide a means for sites to earn advertising fees by advertising and linking to Amazon.com. See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

This is Part I of our unabridged interview with Parker Palmer. “Things didn’t come together vocationally for me until I was 50.” Now 84 years old, Quaker writer, speaker, and activist Parker Palmer has much to say about living a good life. And in his experience, a good life is often hard-won and counterintuitive. In this episode, Parker covers a lot of ground, offering wisdom gleaned from a life lived at attention to the makings of a good life. He tells about his experience seeking and finding vocation, discovering how a rich life entails the embrace of paradox, and living through two major bouts of depression which gave him an increased attention to life’s small things.   Show Notes: Similar episodes Actor and Activist: Martin Sheen Author of The Shack: William Paul Young Resources mentioned this episode Let Your Life Speak by Parker Palmer The Courage to Teach by Parker Palmer PDF of Lee’s Interview Notes Transcription Link for Abridged Episode   Subscribe to episodes: Apple | Spotify | Amazon | Stitcher | Google | YouTube Follow Us: Instagram | Twitter | Facebook | YouTube Follow Lee: Instagram | Twitter  Join our Email List: nosmallendeavor.com Become a Member: Virtual Only | Standard | Premium See Privacy Policy: Privacy Policy  Shop No Small Endeavor Merch: Scandalous Witness Course | Scandalous Witness Book |  Joy & the Good Life Course  Amazon Affiliate Disclosure: Tokens Media, LLC is a participant in the Amazon Services LLC Associates Program, an affiliate advertising program designed to provide a means for sites to earn advertising fees by advertising and linking to Amazon.com. See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

“Things didn’t come together vocationally for me until I was 50.” Now 84 years old, Quaker writer, speaker, and activist Parker Palmer has much to say about living a good life. And in his experience, a good life is often hard-won and counterintuitive. In this episode, Parker covers a lot of ground, offering wisdom gleaned from a life lived at attention to the makings of a good life. He tells about his experience seeking and finding vocation, discovering how a rich life entails the embrace of paradox, and living through two major bouts of depression which gave him an increased attention to life’s small things.   Show Notes: Similar episodes Actor and Activist: Martin Sheen Author of The Shack: William Paul Young Resources mentioned this episode Let Your Life Speak by Parker Palmer The Courage to Teach by Parker Palmer PDF of Lee’s Interview Notes Transcription Link   Subscribe to episodes: Apple | Spotify | Amazon | Stitcher | Google | YouTube Follow Us: Instagram | Twitter | Facebook | YouTube Follow Lee: Instagram | Twitter  Join our Email List: nosmallendeavor.com Become a Member: Virtual Only | Standard | Premium See Privacy Policy: Privacy Policy  Shop No Small Endeavor Merch: Scandalous Witness Course | Scandalous Witness Book |  Joy & the Good Life Course  Amazon Affiliate Disclosure: Tokens Media, LLC is a participant in the Amazon Services LLC Associates Program, an affiliate advertising program designed to provide a means for sites to earn advertising fees by advertising and linking to Amazon.com. See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

This is our unabridged interview with Judith Moskowitz. Stress, they say, is a silent killer. It sometimes feels as if our culture, all the way down to its very economic and social structures, is oriented toward increasing stress levels. Then add the challenges of various common life events–death of a loved one, losing a job, going through divorce – and sooner or later, overwhelming stress seems to come for us all. But might there be a way for us to flourish when stress hits us? Social psychologist Judith Moskowitz has dedicated her life’s work to answering this question. In this episode, she shares her findings after years of studying those who are dealing with acute stress, and describes why finding small ways to increase “positive emotion” can be a crucial tool for navigating one’s stress.   Show Notes: Similar episodes Self-Compassion: Kristin Neff Gretchen Rubin: The Happiness Project Resources mentioned this episode It’s All Good Here Happify Self Compassion by Kristin Neff PDF of Lee’s Interview Notes  Transcription Link for Abridged Episode Subscribe to episodes: Apple | Spotify | Amazon | Stitcher | Google | YouTube Follow Us: Instagram | Twitter | Facebook | YouTube Follow Lee: Instagram | Twitter  Join our Email List: nosmallendeavor.com Become a Member: Virtual Only | Standard | Premium See Privacy Policy: Privacy Policy  Shop No Small Endeavor Merch: Scandalous Witness Course | Scandalous Witness Book |  Joy & the Good Life Course  Amazon Affiliate Disclosure: Tokens Media, LLC is a participant in the Amazon Services LLC Associates Program, an affiliate advertising program designed to provide a means for sites to earn advertising fees by advertising and linking to Amazon.com. See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Stress, they say, is a silent killer. It sometimes feels as if our culture, all the way down to its very economic and social structures, is oriented toward increasing stress levels. Then add the challenges of various common life events–death of a loved one, losing a job, going through divorce – and sooner or later, overwhelming stress seems to come for us all. But might there be a way for us to flourish when stress hits us? Social psychologist Judith Moskowitz has dedicated her life’s work to answering this question. In this episode, she shares her findings after years of studying those who are dealing with acute stress, and describes why finding small ways to increase “positive emotion” can be a crucial tool for navigating one’s stress.   Show Notes: Similar episodes Self-Compassion: Kristin Neff Gretchen Rubin: The Happiness Project Resources mentioned this episode It’s All Good Here Happify Self Compassion by Kristin Neff PDF of Lee’s Interview Notes  Transcription Link Subscribe to episodes: Apple | Spotify | Amazon | Stitcher | Google | YouTube Follow Us: Instagram | Twitter | Facebook | YouTube Follow Lee: Instagram | Twitter  Join our Email List: nosmallendeavor.com Become a Member: Virtual Only | Standard | Premium See Privacy Policy: Privacy Policy  Shop No Small Endeavor Merch: Scandalous Witness Course | Scandalous Witness Book |  Joy & the Good Life Course  Amazon Affiliate Disclosure: Tokens Media, LLC is a participant in the Amazon Services LLC Associates Program, an affiliate advertising program designed to provide a means for sites to earn advertising fees by advertising and linking to Amazon.com. See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

This is our unabridged interview with Gretchen Rubin. What does it take to be happy? Our show is often over-academic in its approach to such questions. But what if there was a way to discover answers that work without bothering too much about definitions, drawn-out studies, and the search for a one-size-fits-all objectivity? In other words, what if the path to happiness includes some personal experimentation, fueled by good old fashioned trial and error? In this episode, Gretchen Rubin describes what she called “The Happiness Project,” a year-long process of trying various highly practical methods of increasing her happiness: joining book clubs, giving warm hellos and goodbyes, learning one’s own sleep preferences, reducing clutter, and trying every flavor of ice cream. “Spoiler alert,” she says. “It did make me happier.” Show Notes: Similar episodes What it Takes to Live a Good Life: Meghan Sullivan Resources mentioned this episode Man’s Search for Meaning by Viktor Frankl Neglected Sense Quiz The Happiness Project by Gretchen Rubin Life in Five Senses by Gretchen Rubin PDF of Lee’s Interview Notes Transcription Link for Abridged Episode Subscribe to episodes: Apple | Spotify | Amazon | Stitcher | Google | YouTube Follow Us: Instagram | Twitter | Facebook | YouTube Follow Lee: Instagram | Twitter  Join our Email List: nosmallendeavor.com Become a Member: Virtual Only | Standard | Premium See Privacy Policy: Privacy Policy  Shop No Small Endeavor Merch: Scandalous Witness Course | Scandalous Witness Book |  Joy & the Good Life Course  Amazon Affiliate Disclosure: Tokens Media, LLC is a participant in the Amazon Services LLC Associates Program, an affiliate advertising program designed to provide a means for sites to earn advertising fees by advertising and linking to Amazon.com. See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

What does it take to be happy? Our show is often over-academic in its approach to such questions. But what if there was a way to discover answers that work without bothering too much about definitions, drawn-out studies, and the search for a one-size-fits-all objectivity? In other words, what if the path to happiness includes some personal experimentation, fueled by good old fashioned trial and error? In this episode, Gretchen Rubin describes what she called “The Happiness Project,” a year-long process of trying various highly practical methods of increasing her happiness: joining book clubs, giving warm hellos and goodbyes, learning one’s own sleep preferences, reducing clutter, and trying every flavor of ice cream. “Spoiler alert,” she says. “It did make me happier.”   Show Notes: Similar episodes What it Takes to Live a Good Life: Meghan Sullivan Resources mentioned this episode Man’s Search for Meaning by Viktor Frankl Neglected Sense Quiz The Happiness Project by Gretchen Rubin Life in Five Senses by Gretchen Rubin PDF of Lee’s Interview Notes Transcription Link Subscribe to episodes: Apple | Spotify | Amazon | Stitcher | Google | YouTube Follow Us: Instagram | Twitter | Facebook | YouTube Follow Lee: Instagram | Twitter  Join our Email List: nosmallendeavor.com Become a Member: Virtual Only | Standard | Premium See Privacy Policy: Privacy Policy  Shop No Small Endeavor Merch: Scandalous Witness Course | Scandalous Witness Book |  Joy & the Good Life Course  Amazon Affiliate Disclosure: Tokens Media, LLC is a participant in the Amazon Services LLC Associates Program, an affiliate advertising program designed to provide a means for sites to earn advertising fees by advertising and linking to Amazon.com. See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

This is our unabridged interview with Rainn Wilson. Bears, beets, Battlestar Galactica… and spirituality? Rainn Wilson is known for playing beloved misfit, paper salesman, and beet farmer Dwight Schrute on the hit TV show The Office. But in Hollywood, he’s known for being a bit of a misfit in another way… he frequently talks about religion in public. Recently, he wrote a book called 'Soul Boom' in which he calls for a spiritual revolution. “We've thrown the spiritual baby out with the religious bathwater,” he says, “but spiritual ideas helped transform my life and made my life better, and the stakes have never been higher.” In this episode, he discusses his upbringing in the Bahá'í faith, how his career as an actor and comedian in Hollywood took a dire toll on his mental health, and how a return to spirituality gave him the tools to begin living a happy, flourishing life.   Show Notes: Similar episodes  Actor and Activist: Martin Sheen The Road to Character: David Brooks Resources mentioned this episode Soul Boom by Rainn Wilson Laughing Matters Documentary PDF of Lee’s Interview Notes Transcription Link for Abridged Episode   Subscribe to episodes: Apple | Spotify | Amazon | Stitcher | Google | YouTube Follow Us: Instagram | Twitter | Facebook | YouTube Follow Lee: Instagram | Twitter  Join our Email List: nosmallendeavor.com Become a Member: Virtual Only | Standard | Premium See Privacy Policy: Privacy Policy  Shop No Small Endeavor Merch: Scandalous Witness Course | Scandalous Witness Book |  Joy & the Good Life Course  Amazon Affiliate Disclosure: Tokens Media, LLC is a participant in the Amazon Services LLC Associates Program, an affiliate advertising program designed to provide a means for sites to earn advertising fees by advertising and linking to Amazon.com. See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Bears, beets, Battlestar Galactica… and spirituality? Rainn Wilson is known for playing beloved misfit, paper salesman, and beet farmer Dwight Schrute on the hit TV show The Office. But in Hollywood, he’s known for being a bit of a misfit in another way… he frequently talks about religion in public. Recently, he wrote a book called 'Soul Boom' in which he calls for a spiritual revolution. “We've thrown the spiritual baby out with the religious bathwater,” he says, “but spiritual ideas helped transform my life and made my life better, and the stakes have never been higher.” In this episode, he discusses his upbringing in the Bahá'í faith, how his career as an actor and comedian in Hollywood took a dire toll on his mental health, and how a return to spirituality gave him the tools to begin living a happy, flourishing life.   Show Notes: Similar episodes  Actor and Activist: Martin Sheen The Road to Character: David Brooks Resources mentioned this episode Soul Boom by Rainn Wilson Laughing Matters Documentary PDF of Lee’s Interview Notes Transcription Link   Subscribe to episodes: Apple | Spotify | Amazon | Stitcher | Google | YouTube Follow Us: Instagram | Twitter | Facebook | YouTube Follow Lee: Instagram | Twitter  Join our Email List: nosmallendeavor.com Become a Member: Virtual Only | Standard | Premium See Privacy Policy: Privacy Policy  Shop No Small Endeavor Merch: Scandalous Witness Course | Scandalous Witness Book |  Joy & the Good Life Course  Amazon Affiliate Disclosure: Tokens Media, LLC is a participant in the Amazon Services LLC Associates Program, an affiliate advertising program designed to provide a means for sites to earn advertising fees by advertising and linking to Amazon.com. See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

This is our unabridged interview with Judith Shulevitz Why would anybody want to practice Sabbath? Over a decade ago, Judith Shulevitz wrote a book called 'The Sabbath World: Glimpses of a Different Order of Time.' Before most of us had smartphones and remote jobs, she was calling attention to the troubling trajectory of an increasingly productivity-focused western culture. In a few years, she argued, we would simply be working all the time. Her prediction, it seems, has come true. The ramping up of 24/7 industry, news, and entertainment has created a baseline busyness unlike any in human history. But what if it’s doing more harm than good? What if, to live a good life, we need to rest, even if it comes at a cost? In this episode, Judith discusses how we got here, and why the ancient practice of Sabbath might help us re-establish a healthy relationship to time and to each other.   Show Notes: Similar episodes The Ruthless Elimination of Hurry: John Mark Comer The Price of the Pursuit of Pleasure: Anna Lembke Man Shall Not Live by Profit Alone: Jay Jakub Time Management for Mortals: Oliver Burkeman Resources mentioned this episode The Sabbath World by Judith Shulevitz The Rainbow by D.H. Lawrence PDF of Lee’s Interview Notes Transcription Link For Abridged Episode Subscribe to episodes: Apple | Spotify | Amazon | Stitcher | Google | YouTube Follow Us: Instagram | Twitter | Facebook | YouTube Follow Lee: Instagram | Twitter  Join our Email List: nosmallendeavor.com Become a Member: Virtual Only | Standard | Premium See Privacy Policy: Privacy Policy  Shop No Small Endeavor Merch: Scandalous Witness Course | Scandalous Witness Book |  Joy & the Good Life Course  Amazon Affiliate Disclosure: Tokens Media, LLC is a participant in the Amazon Services LLC Associates Program, an affiliate advertising program designed to provide a means for sites to earn advertising fees by advertising and linking to Amazon.com.   See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Why would anybody want to practice Sabbath? Over a decade ago, Judith Shulevitz wrote a book called 'The Sabbath World: Glimpses of a Different Order of Time.' Before most of us had smartphones and remote jobs, she was calling attention to the troubling trajectory of an increasingly productivity-focused western culture. In a few years, she argued, we would simply be working all the time. Her prediction, it seems, has come true. The ramping up of 24/7 industry, news, and entertainment has created a baseline busyness unlike any in human history. But what if it’s doing more harm than good? What if, to live a good life, we need to rest, even if it comes at a cost? In this episode, Judith discusses how we got here, and why the ancient practice of Sabbath might help us re-establish a healthy relationship to time and to each other.   Show Notes: Similar episodes The Ruthless Elimination of Hurry: John Mark Comer The Price of the Pursuit of Pleasure: Anna Lembke Man Shall Not Live by Profit Alone: Jay Jakub Time Management for Mortals: Oliver Burkeman Resources mentioned this episode The Sabbath World by Judith Shulevitz The Rainbow by D.H. Lawrence PDF of Lee’s Interview Notes Transcription Link   Subscribe to episodes: Apple | Spotify | Amazon | Stitcher | Google | YouTube Follow Us: Instagram | Twitter | Facebook | YouTube Follow Lee: Instagram | Twitter  Join our Email List: nosmallendeavor.com Become a Member: Virtual Only | Standard | Premium See Privacy Policy: Privacy Policy  Shop No Small Endeavor Merch: Scandalous Witness Course | Scandalous Witness Book |  Joy & the Good Life Course  Amazon Affiliate Disclosure: Tokens Media, LLC is a participant in the Amazon Services LLC Associates Program, an affiliate advertising program designed to provide a means for sites to earn advertising fees by advertising and linking to Amazon.com. See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

This is our unabridged interview with Azim Khamisa How do you forgive the man who killed your son? In 1995, Azim Khamisa’s only son Tariq was shot and killed while delivering a pizza. The killer was a 14-year-old gang member named Tony Hicks, and due to a recent change of law in the state of California, Tony was tried as an adult and sentenced to 25 years in prison. But instead of responding with a call for outrage or revenge, Azim did the unthinkable: he forgave his son’s killer, fought for his release, then gave him a job. “My interpretation of this tragedy was that there are victims at both ends of the gun,” he says. In this episode, he tells the full story of how he uses his experience to help end youth violence, even recruiting his son’s killer to join in the work. It is one of unimaginable grief, staunch faith, and unwavering compassion. Show Notes: Similar Episodes  Forgiving My Mother’s Murderer: Sharon Risher Burying 250 Friends: Greg Boyle on Community Amidst Gang Violence Resources mentioned this episode TKF.org AzimKhamisa.com Email Azim: azim@azimkhamisa.com PDF of Lee’s Interview Notes Transcription Link For Abridged Episode Subscribe to episodes: Apple | Spotify | Amazon | Stitcher | Google | YouTube Follow Us: Instagram | Twitter | Facebook | YouTube Follow Lee: Instagram | Twitter  Join our Email List: nosmallendeavor.com Become a Member: Virtual Only | Standard | Premium See Privacy Policy: Privacy Policy  Shop No Small Endeavor Merch: Scandalous Witness Course | Scandalous Witness Book |  Joy & the Good Life Course  Amazon Affiliate Disclosure: Tokens Media, LLC is a participant in the Amazon Services LLC Associates Program, an affiliate advertising program designed to provide a means for sites to earn advertising fees by advertising and linking to Amazon.com.   See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

How do you forgive the man who killed your son? In 1995, Azim Khamisa’s only son Tariq was shot and killed while delivering a pizza. The killer was a 14-year-old gang member named Tony Hicks, and due to a recent change of law in the state of California, Tony was tried as an adult and sentenced to 25 years in prison. But instead of responding with a call for outrage or revenge, Azim did the unthinkable: he forgave his son’s killer, fought for his release, then gave him a job. “My interpretation of this tragedy was that there are victims at both ends of the gun,” he says. In this episode, he tells the full story of how he uses his experience to help end youth violence, even recruiting his son’s killer to join in the work. It is one of unimaginable grief, staunch faith, and unwavering compassion. Show Notes: Similar Episodes  Forgiving My Mother’s Murderer: Sharon Risher Burying 250 Friends: Greg Boyle on Community Amidst Gang Violence Resources mentioned this episode TKF.org AzimKhamisa.com Email Azim: azim@azimkhamisa.com PDF of Lee’s Interview Notes Transcription Link Subscribe to episodes: Apple | Spotify | Amazon | Stitcher | Google | YouTube Follow Us: Instagram | Twitter | Facebook | YouTube Follow Lee: Instagram | Twitter  Join our Email List: nosmallendeavor.com Become a Member: Virtual Only | Standard | Premium See Privacy Policy: Privacy Policy  Shop No Small Endeavor Merch: Scandalous Witness Course | Scandalous Witness Book |  Joy & the Good Life Course  Amazon Affiliate Disclosure: Tokens Media, LLC is a participant in the Amazon Services LLC Associates Program, an affiliate advertising program designed to provide a means for sites to earn advertising fees by advertising and linking to Amazon.com. See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

This is our unabridged interview with Martin Sheen. In this episode, Lee sits down with the former President of the United States… At least, that’s how many listeners may know Martin Sheen, an award-winning actor known for his roles in Apocalypse Now and The Departed, and perhaps most famously for playing President Jed Bartlet in the hit TV series The West Wing. But offscreen, Martin is perhaps best described as a committed Catholic with a beautiful conversion story, and an ardent peace activist who has been arrested over 60 times. In this episode, he tells his whole story, full of humor and grace, all the way from his childhood in Ohio to his acting career, his coming to faith, and much more.   Show Notes: Similar episodes The Architect of The American Civil Rights Movement: James Lawson Taking the Beatitudes Seriously: John Dear Resources mentioned this episode The West Wing Cathedral Scene PDF of Lee’s Interview Notes Transcription Link For Abridged Episode   Subscribe to episodes: Apple | Spotify | Amazon | Stitcher | Google | YouTube Follow Us: Instagram | Twitter | Facebook | YouTube Follow Lee: Instagram | Twitter  Join our Email List: nosmallendeavor.com Become a Member: Virtual Only | Standard | Premium See Privacy Policy: Privacy Policy  Shop No Small Endeavor Merch: Scandalous Witness Course | Scandalous Witness Book |  Joy & the Good Life Course  Amazon Affiliate Disclosure: Tokens Media, LLC is a participant in the Amazon Services LLC Associates Program, an affiliate advertising program designed to provide a means for sites to earn advertising fees by advertising and linking to Amazon.com. See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

In this episode, Lee sits down with the former President of the United States… At least, that’s how many listeners may know Martin Sheen, an award-winning actor known for his roles in Apocalypse Now and The Departed, and perhaps most famously for playing President Jed Bartlet in the hit TV series The West Wing. But offscreen, Martin is perhaps best described as a committed Catholic with a beautiful conversion story, and an ardent peace activist who has been arrested over 60 times. In this episode, he tells his whole story, full of humor and grace, all the way from his childhood in Ohio to his acting career, his coming to faith, and much more.   Show Notes: Similar episodes The Architect of The American Civil Rights Movement: James Lawson Taking the Beatitudes Seriously: John Dear Resources mentioned this episode The West Wing Cathedral Scene PDF of Lee’s Interview Notes Transcription Link   Subscribe to episodes: Apple | Spotify | Amazon | Stitcher | Google | YouTube Follow Us: Instagram | Twitter | Facebook | YouTube Follow Lee: Instagram | Twitter  Join our Email List: nosmallendeavor.com Become a Member: Virtual Only | Standard | Premium See Privacy Policy: Privacy Policy  Shop No Small Endeavor Merch: Scandalous Witness Course | Scandalous Witness Book |  Joy & the Good Life Course  Amazon Affiliate Disclosure: Tokens Media, LLC is a participant in the Amazon Services LLC Associates Program, an affiliate advertising program designed to provide a means for sites to earn advertising fees by advertising and linking to Amazon.com. See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

This is the unabridged Interview of Lee's conversation with Kristin Du Mez and David French. What happens when one of the country’s most outspoken critics of white male Christian political conservatism sits down with… well, a white male Christian political conservative? The answer: a really great conversation about politics, culture, and the desperate need for hospitality in the digital age. “With the decline of traditional media, everything's a competition for clicks,” says Kristin Du Mez, author of New York Times bestseller Jesus and John Wayne. She’s joined by David French, senior editor for the Dispatch and contributing writer to The Atlantic, to discuss their roles as public cultural commentators, how they choose their battles, how they deal with criticism, and the hard work of critiquing one’s own tribe in the age of political tribalism.   Show Notes: Similar episodes Jesus and John Wayne: Kristin Du Mez Conservatism Without Trumpism: David French Is Conservative Christianity Anti-Intellectual?: Molly Worthen Resources mentioned this episode Jesus and John Wayne by Kristin Du Mez Tim Alberta's Atlantic article - 'How Politics Poisoned The Evangelical Church' PDF of Lee’s Interview Notes Transcription of abridged episode Subscribe to episodes: Apple | Spotify | Amazon | Stitcher | Google | YouTube Follow Us: Instagram | Twitter | Facebook | YouTube Follow Lee: Instagram | Twitter  Join our Email List: nosmallendeavor.com Become a Member: Virtual Only | Standard | Premium See Privacy Policy: Privacy Policy  Shop No Small Endeavor Merch: Scandalous Witness Course | Scandalous Witness Book |  Joy & the Good Life Course  Amazon Affiliate Disclosure: Tokens Media, LLC is a participant in the Amazon Services LLC Associates Program, an affiliate advertising program designed to provide a means for sites to earn advertising fees by advertising and linking to Amazon.com. See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

What happens when one of the country’s most outspoken critics of white male Christian political conservatism sits down with… well, a white male Christian political conservative? The answer: a really great conversation about politics, culture, and the desperate need for hospitality in the digital age. “With the decline of traditional media, everything's a competition for clicks,” says Kristin Du Mez, author of New York Times bestseller Jesus and John Wayne. She’s joined by David French, senior editor for the Dispatch and contributing writer to The Atlantic, to discuss their roles as public cultural commentators, how they choose their battles, how they deal with criticism, and the hard work of critiquing one’s own tribe in the age of political tribalism.   Show Notes: Similar episodes Jesus and John Wayne: Kristin Du Mez Conservatism Without Trumpism: David French Is Conservative Christianity Anti-Intellectual?: Molly Worthen Resources mentioned this episode Jesus and John Wayne by Kristin Du Mez Tim Alberta's Atlantic article - 'How Politics Poisoned The Evangelical Church' PDF of Lee’s Interview Notes Transcription Subscribe to episodes: Apple | Spotify | Amazon | Stitcher | Google | YouTube Follow Us: Instagram | Twitter | Facebook | YouTube Follow Lee: Instagram | Twitter  Join our Email List: nosmallendeavor.com Become a Member: Virtual Only | Standard | Premium See Privacy Policy: Privacy Policy  Shop No Small Endeavor Merch: Scandalous Witness Course | Scandalous Witness Book |  Joy & the Good Life Course  Amazon Affiliate Disclosure: Tokens Media, LLC is a participant in the Amazon Services LLC Associates Program, an affiliate advertising program designed to provide a means for sites to earn advertising fees by advertising and linking to Amazon.com. See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

This is the unabridged interview with Greg Boyle. How do you reteach love to a community that society has deemed unloveable? In the 80s and 90s, the city of Los Angeles was ravaged by what is now known as the "decade of death," a period of unprecedented gang violence, peaking at 1,000 killings in 1992 alone. It was in the midst of this unrest, fear, and finger-pointing that Father Greg Boyle became pastor of the poorest Catholic parish in the city, in order to live and work among gang members. This eventually led him to start Homeboy Industries, which is now the largest gang-member rehabilitation and re-entry program in the world. In this episode, he tells some breathtaking stories, offering wisdom from a life lived in community with those who society neglects: “You don't go to the margins to make a difference. You go so the folks at the margins make you different.”   Show Notes: Taking the Beatitudes Seriously: John Dear The Power of Being Known: Curt Thompson The Facts of Life: Pádraig Ó Tuama Similar episodes Resources mentioned this episode Homeboy Industries website Tattoos on the Heart by Greg Boyle Barking to the Choir by Greg Boyle PDF of Lee’s Interview Notes  Subscribe to episodes: Apple | Spotify | Amazon | Stitcher | Google | YouTube Follow Us: Instagram | Twitter | Facebook | YouTube Follow Lee: Instagram | Twitter  Join our Email List: nosmallendeavor.com Become a Member: Virtual Only | Standard | Premium See Privacy Policy: Privacy Policy  Shop No Small Endeavor Merch: Scandalous Witness Course | Scandalous Witness Book |  Joy & the Good Life Course  Amazon Affiliate Disclosure: Tokens Media, LLC is a participant in the Amazon Services LLC Associates Program, an affiliate advertising program designed to provide a means for sites to earn advertising fees by advertising and linking to Amazon.com. See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

How do you reteach love to a community that society has deemed unloveable? In the 80s and 90s, the city of Los Angeles was ravaged by what is now known as the "decade of death," a period of unprecedented gang violence, peaking at 1,000 killings in 1992 alone. It was in the midst of this unrest, fear, and finger-pointing that Father Greg Boyle became pastor of the poorest Catholic parish in the city, in order to live and work among gang members. This eventually led him to start Homeboy Industries, which is now the largest gang-member rehabilitation and re-entry program in the world. In this episode, he tells some breathtaking stories, offering wisdom from a life lived in community with those who society neglects: “You don't go to the margins to make a difference. You go so the folks at the margins make you different.”   Show Notes: Similar episodes Taking the Beatitudes Seriously: John Dear The Power of Being Known: Curt Thompson The Facts of Life: Pádraig Ó Tuama Resources mentioned this episode Homeboy Industries website Tattoos on the Heart by Greg Boyle Barking to the Choir by Greg Boyle PDF of Lee’s Interview Notes  Transcription Link Subscribe to episodes: Apple | Spotify | Amazon | Stitcher | Google | YouTube Follow Us: Instagram | Twitter | Facebook | YouTube Follow Lee: Instagram | Twitter  Join our Email List: nosmallendeavor.com Become a Member: Virtual Only | Standard | Premium See Privacy Policy: Privacy Policy  Shop No Small Endeavor Merch: Scandalous Witness Course | Scandalous Witness Book |  Joy & the Good Life Course  Amazon Affiliate Disclosure: Tokens Media, LLC is a participant in the Amazon Services LLC Associates Program, an affiliate advertising program designed to provide a means for sites to earn advertising fees by advertising and linking to Amazon.com. See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

This is our unabridged interview with Ben Cohen of Ben and Jerry's Ice Cream Show Notes: Similar episodes Peace, Justice, Ice Cream: Ben Cohen Man Shall Not Live by Profit Alone: Jay Jakub The Business of War: Justin Barringer Resources mentioned this episode Above the Law by Ben Cohen PDF of Lee’s Interview Notes Subscribe to episodes: Apple | Spotify | Amazon | Stitcher | Google | YouTube Follow Us: Instagram | Twitter | Facebook | YouTube Follow Lee: Instagram | Twitter  Join our Email List: nosmallendeavor.com Become a Member: Virtual Only | Standard | Premium See Privacy Policy: Privacy Policy  Shop No Small Endeavor Merch: Scandalous Witness Course | Scandalous Witness Book |  Joy & the Good Life Course  Amazon Affiliate Disclosure: Tokens Media, LLC is a participant in the Amazon Services LLC Associates Program, an affiliate advertising program designed to provide a means for sites to earn advertising fees by advertising and linking to Amazon.com. See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Is business just for making money? Famed economist Milton Friedman once argued in favor of such a view, and his economic theory has been the teaching basis for the last 50 years of American capitalism. But Ben Cohen, co-founder of world-famous Ben and Jerry’s Ice Cream, thinks differently. In this episode, he discusses how he and Jerry found groundbreaking ways to go against the grain of the business world, giving away unprecedented amounts of profit, incorporating justice work into their company’s workflow, and speaking out in public against corruption. Also, economist Jay Jakub explains why profit-centered Capitalism is destined to fail, and what it might look like for a business to take a more holistic view of capital.   - Show Notes: Similar episodes Peace, Justice, Ice Cream: Ben Cohen Man Shall Not Live by Profit Alone: Jay Jakub The Business of War: Justin Barringer Resources mentioned this episode Above the Law by Ben Cohen PDF of Lee’s Interview Notes Transcription Link Subscribe to episodes: Apple | Spotify | Amazon | Stitcher | Google | YouTube Follow Us: Instagram | Twitter | Facebook | YouTube Follow Lee: Instagram | Twitter  Join our Email List: nosmallendeavor.com Become a Member: Virtual Only | Standard | Premium See Privacy Policy: Privacy Policy  Shop No Small Endeavor Merch: Scandalous Witness Course | Scandalous Witness Book |  Joy & the Good Life Course  Amazon Affiliate Disclosure: Tokens Media, LLC is a participant in the Amazon Services LLC Associates Program, an affiliate advertising program designed to provide a means for sites to earn advertising fees by advertising and linking to Amazon.com. See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Our culture is brimming with wealth, upward social mobility, and endless access to massive hits of dopamine-fueled pleasure. So why are we still so unhappy? Access to pleasure is greater than ever in industrialized nations, and yet those same nations are seeing frightening rises in depression, anxiety, and “deaths of despair". In this episode, Anna Lembke, author of New York Times bestseller 'Dopamine Nation,' discusses why a life of endless, fast-paced pleasure seeking always comes at a cost, and what might be done in the midst of such an epidemic.   Show Notes: Similar episodes The Ruthless Elimination of Hurry: John Mark Comer Resources mentioned this episode Dopamine Nation by Anna Lembke Lee's Interview Notes Anna Lembke   Subscribe to episodes: Apple | Spotify | Amazon | Stitcher | Google | YouTube Follow Us: Instagram | Twitter | Facebook | YouTube Follow Lee: Instagram | Twitter  Join our Email List: nosmallendeavor.com Become a Member: Virtual Only | Standard | Premium See Privacy Policy: Privacy Policy  Shop No Small Endeavor Merch: Scandalous Witness Course | Scandalous Witness Book |  Joy & the Good Life Course  Amazon Affiliate Disclosure: Tokens Media, LLC is a participant in the Amazon Services LLC Associates Program, an affiliate advertising program designed to provide a means for sites to earn advertising fees by advertising and linking to Amazon.com. See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Our culture is brimming with wealth, upward social mobility, and endless access to massive hits of dopamine-fueled pleasure. So why are we still so unhappy? Access to pleasure is greater than ever in industrialized nations, and yet those same nations are seeing frightening rises in depression, anxiety, and “deaths of despair". In this episode, Anna Lembke, author of New York Times bestseller 'Dopamine Nation,' and John Mark Comer, author of New York Times bestseller 'The Ruthless Elimination of Hurry,' discuss why a life of endless, fast-paced pleasure seeking always comes at a cost, and what might be done in the midst of such an epidemic.   Show Notes: Similar episodes The Price of the Pursuit of Pleasure: Anna Lembke The Ruthless Elimination of Hurry: John Mark Comer Resources mentioned this episode Dopamine Nation by Anna Lembke The Ruthless Elimination of Hurry by John Mark Comer Lee's Interview Notes Anna Lembke John Mark Comer Transcription Link   Subscribe to episodes: Apple | Spotify | Amazon | Stitcher | Google | YouTube Follow Us: Instagram | Twitter | Facebook | YouTube Follow Lee: Instagram | Twitter  Join our Email List: nosmallendeavor.com Become a Member: Virtual Only | Standard | Premium See Privacy Policy: Privacy Policy  Shop No Small Endeavor Merch: Scandalous Witness Course | Scandalous Witness Book |  Joy & the Good Life Course  Amazon Affiliate Disclosure: Tokens Media, LLC is a participant in the Amazon Services LLC Associates Program, an affiliate advertising program designed to provide a means for sites to earn advertising fees by advertising and linking to Amazon.com. See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

This is the unabridged interview with David Hemenway. After consistently eclipsing all other countries in the number of mass shootings per year, why is America still so obsessed with guns? And in the face of such a polarizing issue, what can be done to stop the killing? “A lot of people think we have a violence problem, but it doesn't seem to be the case; but where we are different is in terms of guns,” says Dr. David Hemenway of Harvard University’s Injury Control Research Center. He makes the case for a public health approach which treats gun violence as an epidemic to be mitigated through practical long-term solutions. Show Notes: Similar episodes Taking the Beatitudes Seriously: John Dear Forgiving my Mother’s Murderer: Sharon Risher Guns, Economics, Public Health: David Hemenway God and Guns: Chris Hays and Carly Crouch Resources mentioned this episode Private Guns, Public Health by David Hemenway   Subscribe to episodes: Apple | Spotify | Amazon | Stitcher | Google | YouTube Follow Us: Instagram | Twitter | Facebook | YouTube Follow Lee: Instagram | Twitter  Join our Email List: nosmallendeavor.com Become a Member: Virtual Only | Standard | Premium See Privacy Policy: Privacy Policy  Shop No Small Endeavor Merch: Scandalous Witness Course | Scandalous Witness Book |  Joy & the Good Life Course  Amazon Affiliate Disclosure: Tokens Media, LLC is a participant in the Amazon Services LLC Associates Program, an affiliate advertising program designed to provide a means for sites to earn advertising fees by advertising and linking to Amazon.com. See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

After consistently eclipsing all other countries in the number of mass shootings per year, why is America still so obsessed with guns? And in the face of such a polarizing issue, what can be done to stop the killing? “A lot of people think we have a violence problem, but it doesn't seem to be the case; but where we are different is in terms of guns,” says Dr. David Hemenway of Harvard University’s Injury Control Research Center. He makes the case for a public health approach which treats gun violence as an epidemic to be mitigated through practical long-term solutions. In addition, Professors Chris Hays and Carly Crouch of Fuller Theological Seminary discuss their book 'God and Guns', examining the presumed correlation between American Christianity and support of gun ownership. To close, Diane Latiker shares what peacemaking might look like on the ground in the face of such bleak realities. Show Notes: Similar episodes Taking the Beatitudes Seriously: John Dear Forgiving my Mother’s Murderer: Sharon Risher Guns, Economics, Public Health: David Hemenway God and Guns: Chris Hays and Carly Crouch Resources mentioned this episode Private Guns, Public Health by David Hemenway God and Guns by Chris Hays and Carly Crouch Transcription Link    Subscribe to episodes: Apple | Spotify | Amazon | Stitcher | Google | YouTube Follow Us: Instagram | Twitter | Facebook | YouTube Follow Lee: Instagram | Twitter  Join our Email List: nosmallendeavor.com Become a Member: Virtual Only | Standard | Premium See Privacy Policy: Privacy Policy  Shop No Small Endeavor Merch: Scandalous Witness Course | Scandalous Witness Book |  Joy & the Good Life Course  Amazon Affiliate Disclosure: Tokens Media, LLC is a participant in the Amazon Services LLC Associates Program, an affiliate advertising program designed to provide a means for sites to earn advertising fees by advertising and linking to Amazon.com. See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

What on God’s green earth does climate change have to do with living a good life? To answer such a question, says author and professor Debra Rienstra, we must first ask a more basic one: what is the good life? “We have assumed that it is affluence and upward mobility,” she says, “but that good life is not sustainable.” If a good life is one of purpose and healing, then it is precisely the Western ideal of success that is eating away our ability to live good lives. In this episode, we discuss her book Refugia Faith, in which she makes the argument that “the created world is not just our grocery store and sewer,” and that to live a good life, we must care for the planet on which the good life takes place. Similar episodes The Most Polarized Issue in the United States: Katharine Hayhoe The Flag, the Cross, and the Station Wagon: Bill McKibben Hope in the Age of Climate Change: Chris Doran - The Collapse of the Biosphere: Peter Harris Resources mentioned in this episode  Refugia Faith by Debra Rienstra Eaarth by Bill McKibben Great Tide Rising by Kathleen Dean Moore IPCC Reports on Climate Change - A Rocha International PDF of Lee’s Interview Notes Transcription Link Subscribe to episodes: Apple | Spotify | Amazon | Stitcher | Google | YouTube Follow Us: Instagram | Twitter | Facebook | YouTube Follow Lee: Instagram | Twitter  Join our Email List: nosmallendeavor.com Become a Member: Virtual Only | Standard | Premium See Privacy Policy: Privacy Policy  Shop No Small Endeavor Merch: Scandalous Witness Course | Scandalous Witness Book |  Joy & the Good Life Course  Amazon Affiliate Disclosure: Tokens Media, LLC is a participant in the Amazon Services LLC Associates Program, an affiliate advertising program designed to provide a means for sites to earn advertising fees by advertising and linking to Amazon.com. See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

The unabridged interview version of Lee's interview with John Dear How do you live a good life in a world of 30 wars, 13,000 nuclear weapons, 4 billion people in poverty, racism, gun violence, child hunger, and catastrophic climate change? This is the question posed by Catholic priest and activist John Dear. For years, Father Dear has taken part in peace movements alongside folks like Coretta King, Thich Nhat Hanh, and Desmond tutu. In this episode, he has some unbelievable stories that answer his question in a provocative way: “To do the good means to stop the killing. You cannot be a Christian and support war, or killing, or nuclear weapons. Jesus was totally non-violent; if you want to be a Christian, you have to be totally non-violent too.” Show Notes: The Architect of the American Civil Rights Movement: James Lawson The Business of War: Justin Barringer German Catholics and Hitler’s Wars by Gordon Zahn Man’s Search for Meaning by Viktor Frankl The Nonviolent Life by John Dear The Beatitudes Center John Dear’s website Similar episodes Resources mentioned this episode PDF of Lee’s Interview Notes  Transcription Link    Subscribe to episodes: Apple | Spotify | Amazon | Stitcher | Google | YouTube Follow Us: Instagram | Twitter | Facebook | YouTube Follow Lee: Instagram | Twitter  Join our Email List: nosmallendeavor.com Become a Member: Virtual Only | Standard | Premium See Privacy Policy: Privacy Policy  Shop No Small Endeavor Merch: Scandalous Witness Course | Scandalous Witness Book |  Joy & the Good Life Course  Amazon Affiliate Disclosure: Tokens Media, LLC is a participant in the Amazon Services LLC Associates Program, an affiliate advertising program designed to provide a means for sites to earn advertising fees by advertising and linking to Amazon.com See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

How do you live a good life in a world of 30 wars, 13,000 nuclear weapons, 4 billion people in poverty, racism, gun violence, child hunger, and catastrophic climate change? This is the question posed by Catholic priest and activist John Dear. For years, Father Dear has taken part in peace movements alongside folks like Coretta King, Thich Nhat Hanh, and Desmond tutu. In this episode, he has some unbelievable stories that answer his question in a provocative way: “To do the good means to stop the killing. You cannot be a Christian and support war, or killing, or nuclear weapons. Jesus was totally non-violent; if you want to be a Christian, you have to be totally non-violent too.” Show Notes: The Architect of the American Civil Rights Movement: James Lawson The Business of War: Justin Barringer German Catholics and Hitler’s Wars by Gordon Zahn Man’s Search for Meaning by Viktor Frankl The Nonviolent Life by John Dear The Beatitudes Center John Dear’s website Similar episodes Resources mentioned this episode PDF of Lee’s Interview Notes  Transcription Link    Subscribe to episodes: Apple | Spotify | Amazon | Stitcher | Google | YouTube Follow Us: Instagram | Twitter | Facebook | YouTube Follow Lee: Instagram | Twitter  Join our Email List: nosmallendeavor.com Become a Member: Virtual Only | Standard | Premium See Privacy Policy: Privacy Policy  Shop No Small Endeavor Merch: Scandalous Witness Course | Scandalous Witness Book |  Joy & the Good Life Course  Amazon Affiliate Disclosure: Tokens Media, LLC is a participant in the Amazon Services LLC Associates Program, an affiliate advertising program designed to provide a means for sites to earn advertising fees by advertising and linking to Amazon.com See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

We wanted to rebroadcast our interview with Justin Jones. Recently Justin was one of two Black lawmakers in the Tennessee House who were expelled for breaking decorum. You can watch the video of the debate and vote to expel them here. Since Justin is now the national face of a movement to end gun violence and racial discrimination we thought our interview might help provide some context to the man in the headlines.  This is a rebroadcast from before the name change to No Small Endeavor when the show was called Tokens. “Justice is what love looks like in public.” In this episode, Justin Jones discusses how his work for justice, particularly during a 62-day non-violent protest outside the Tennessee State Capitol, is itself an act of faith, steeped in self-denying love.   Subscribe to episodes: Apple | Spotify | Amazon | Stitcher | Google | YouTube Follow Us: Instagram | Twitter | Facebook | YouTube Follow Lee: Instagram | Twitter  Join our Email List: nosmallendeavor.com Become a Member: Virtual Only | Standard | Premium See Privacy Policy: Privacy Policy  Shop No Small Endeavor Merch: Scandalous Witness Course | Scandalous Witness Book |  Joy & the Good Life Course    Amazon Affiliate Disclosure: Tokens Media, LLC is a participant in the Amazon Services LLC Associates Program, an affiliate advertising program designed to provide a means for sites to earn advertising fees by advertising and linking to Amazon.com.   See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

What does one’s past have to do with their anger and anxiety in the present? What do our bodies remember that our minds don’t? And what do our brains want more than chocolate, sex, or a sports car? Psychiatrist Curt Thompson discusses these questions from the perspective of both brain science and theology. A psychiatrist in private practice, Dr. Thompson has expertise in interpersonal neurobiology, and contends that a key to living a good life comes quite simply to this: “being known.” Lee and Curt discuss two of Curt’s books, “The Anatomy of the Soul” and “The Soul of Desire,” with conversation on trauma and anxiety, connection and community, and why people need each other to be fully themselves.   Show Notes: Similar episodes The Price of the Pursuit of Pleasure: Anna Lembke The Ruthless Elimination of Hurry: John Mark Comer What Hath Christianity to do with Psychology? Mark McMinn The Soul of Shame: Curt Thompson Resources mentioned this episode The Anatomy of the Soul by Curt Thompson The Soul of Desire by Curt Thompson Being Known Podcast PDF of Lee’s Interview Notes (coming soon) Transcription Link Subscribe to episodes: Apple | Spotify | Amazon | Stitcher | Google | YouTube Follow Us: Instagram | Twitter | Facebook | YouTube Follow Lee: Instagram | Twitter  Join our Email List: nosmallendeavor.com Become a Member: Virtual Only | Standard | Premium See Privacy Policy: Privacy Policy  Shop No Small Endeavor Merch: Scandalous Witness Course | Scandalous Witness Book |  Joy & the Good Life Course    Amazon Affiliate Disclosure: Tokens Media, LLC is a participant in the Amazon Services LLC Associates Program, an affiliate advertising program designed to provide a means for sites to earn advertising fees by advertising and linking to Amazon.com.   See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

For all our modern so-called progress, global happiness levels have been consistently going down, especially in the richest and most developed countries. So what does it really take to be happy? Since 1938, Harvard scientists have been closely studying the lives of over 700 individuals to answer that very question. In this episode, two of those scientists - Robert Waldinger and Marc Schulz - discuss the surprising results of what is known as the “World’s Longest Study of Happiness,” and why they are consistently finding that meaningful relationships are the key to living a long, happy, flourishing life. Show Notes: Similar episodes Interview with Kristin Du Mez Resources mentioned this episode Robert Waldinger’s TED Talk WISER tool for relationships: Watch, Interpret, Select, Engage, and Reflect Bowling Alone by Robert Putnam PDF of Lee’s Interview Notes  Transcription Link    Subscribe to episodes: Apple | Spotify | Amazon | Stitcher | Google | YouTube Follow Us: Instagram | Twitter | Facebook | YouTube Follow Lee: Instagram | Twitter  Join our Email List: nosmallendeavor.com Become a Member: Virtual Only | Standard | Premium See Privacy Policy: Privacy Policy  Shop No Small Endeavor Merch: Scandalous Witness Course | Scandalous Witness Book |  Joy & the Good Life Course  Amazon Affiliate Disclosure: Tokens Media, LLC is a participant in the Amazon Services LLC Associates Program, an affiliate advertising program designed to provide a means for sites to earn advertising fees by advertising and linking to Amazon.com. See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Christian culture in our day is full of superstars: authors, athletes, media personas, and even pastors with millions of followers and fans. Their success, and the devotion they receive, often rivals that of their secular counterparts. But what if such fame actually does more harm than good? Today, Katleyn Beaty explores this question at length, discussing how Christianity became an arena for celebrity, and why a celebrity-based culture makes little room for the traditional Christian virtues of humility, poverty, and accountability. Similar episodes Interview with Kristin Du Mez Resources mentioned this episode Middlemarch by George Eliot PDF of Lee’s Interview Notes  Transcription Link    Subscribe to episodes: Apple | Spotify | Amazon | Stitcher | Google | YouTube Follow Us: Instagram | Twitter | Facebook | YouTube Follow Lee: Instagram | Twitter  Join our Email List: nosmallendeavor.com Become a Member: Virtual Only | Standard | Premium See Privacy Policy: Privacy Policy  Shop No Small Endeavor Merch: Scandalous Witness Course | Scandalous Witness Book |  Joy & the Good Life Course    Amazon Affiliate Disclosure: Tokens Media, LLC is a participant in the Amazon Services LLC Associates Program, an affiliate advertising program designed to provide a means for sites to earn advertising fees by advertising and linking to Amazon.com. See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

We live in an age full of lifehacks, self-help books, and productivity gurus. But for all of the tips and tricks we adopt in order to squeeze every ounce of production out of our days, many of us only end up busier and more stressed than we were before. What if there’s a better way to live a full, fruitful life? "The world is bursting with wonder,” says Oliver Burkeman, “and yet it's the rare productivity guru who seems to have considered the possibility that the ultimate point of all our frenetic doing might be to experience more of that wonder." In this episode, he discusses his New York Times Bestselling book 4000 Weeks: Time Management for Mortals, dispelling many contemporary ideas about productivity, and instead suggesting a wonder-fueled, counterintuitive method for flourishing in the world. Similar episodes: Interview with Rebecca DeYoung  Resources mentioned in this episode: A Testament of Devotion by Thomas Raymond Kelly  Catherine Andrews, "Why You're Going About Recovering from Perfectionism All Wrong" Man’s Search for Meaning by Victor Frankl Transcription Link  Lee's Interview Notes Subscribe to episodes: Apple | Spotify | Amazon | Stitcher | Google | YouTube Follow Us: Instagram | Twitter | Facebook | YouTube Follow Lee: Instagram | Twitter  Join our Email List: nosmallendeavor.com Become a Member: Virtual Only | Standard | Premium See Privacy Policy: Privacy Policy  Shop No Small Endeavor Merch: Scandalous Witness Course | Scandalous Witness Book |  Joy & the Good Life Course    Amazon Affiliate Disclosure: Tokens Media, LLC is a participant in the Amazon Services LLC Associates Program, an affiliate advertising program designed to provide a means for sites to earn advertising fees by advertising and linking to Amazon.com. See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

***This is the special release of the unabridged interview with American Civil Rights hero Reverend James Lawson. You can find the normal shorter produced version in our podcast feed. The American Civil Rights Movement, like Gandhi's Indian Independence Movement, was famously set apart by its employment of non-violent resistance methods. But have you ever wondered how such a movement was possible on so large a scale? In this episode, we are honored to have the man who Martin Luther King Jr. called friend, mentor, and the very conscience and architect of the Civil Rights movement: Reverend James Lawson. He discusses America’s past and present, and what it took to organize a whole population across the country to fight back without throwing a punch. “​​We started the public desegregation of the nation,” he says, “and we did it without hating anybody.” Show Notes: Resources mentioned this episode Fellowship Of Reconciliation (F.O.R.) Rev. James Lawson’s Church Holman United Methodist PDF of Lee’s Interview Notes  Transcription Link Subscribe to episodes: Apple | Spotify | Amazon | Stitcher | Google | YouTube Follow Us: Instagram | Twitter | Facebook | YouTube Follow Lee: Instagram | Twitter  Join our Email List: nosmallendeavor.com Become a Member: Virtual Only | Standard | Premium See Privacy Policy: Privacy Policy  Shop No Small Endeavor Merch: Scandalous Witness Course | Scandalous Witness Book |  Joy & the Good Life Course    Amazon Affiliate Disclosure: Tokens Media, LLC is a participant in the Amazon Services LLC Associates Program, an affiliate advertising program designed to provide a means for sites to earn advertising fees by advertising and linking to Amazon.com. See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

The American Civil Rights Movement, like Gandhi's Indian Independence Movement, was famously set apart by its employment of non-violent resistance methods. But have you ever wondered how such a movement was possible on so large a scale? In this episode, we are honored to have the man who Martin Luther King Jr. called friend, mentor, and the very conscience and architect of the Civil Rights movement: Reverend James Lawson. He discusses America’s past and present, and what it took to organize a whole population across the country to fight back without throwing a punch. “​​We started the public desegregation of the nation,” he says, “and we did it without hating anybody.” Show Notes: Resources mentioned this episode Fellowship Of Reconciliation (F.O.R.) Rev. James Lawson’s Church Holman United Methodist PDF of Lee’s Interview Notes  Transcription Link Subscribe to episodes: Apple | Spotify | Amazon | Stitcher | Google | YouTube Follow Us: Instagram | Twitter | Facebook | YouTube Follow Lee: Instagram | Twitter  Join our Email List: nosmallendeavor.com Become a Member: Virtual Only | Standard | Premium See Privacy Policy: Privacy Policy  Shop No Small Endeavor Merch: Scandalous Witness Course | Scandalous Witness Book |  Joy & the Good Life Course    Amazon Affiliate Disclosure: Tokens Media, LLC is a participant in the Amazon Services LLC Associates Program, an affiliate advertising program designed to provide a means for sites to earn advertising fees by advertising and linking to Amazon.com. See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

What does it mean to live a good life, and how do we start? On our show, we make it a habit of repeating our tagline: “Exploring what it means to live a good life.” But in this episode, we address the issue head-on like never before, with the help of Notre Dame Professor of Philosophy Meghan Sullivan. We discuss her book “The Good Life Method,” which gives helpful insight about the kinds of questions philosophers and theologians have been asking for millennia: What does it mean to pursue a life worth living? What sort of end ought we keep in mind in all our doing and living and being? And how might we get there?   Show Notes: On Bullshit by Harry G Frankfurt William James’ essay “The Will To Believe” PDF of Lee’s Interview Notes  Transcription Link   Subscribe to episodes: Apple | Spotify | Amazon | Stitcher | Google | YouTube Follow Us: Instagram | Twitter | Facebook | YouTube Follow Lee: Instagram | Twitter  Join our Email List: nosmallendeavor.com Become a Member: Virtual Only | Standard | Premium See Privacy Policy: Privacy Policy  Shop No Small Endeavor Merch: Scandalous Witness Course | Scandalous Witness Book |  Joy & the Good Life Course  Amazon Affiliate Disclosure: Tokens Media, LLC is a participant in the Amazon Services LLC Associates Program, an affiliate advertising program designed to provide a means for sites to earn advertising fees by advertising and linking to Amazon.com. See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Author of The Shack, William Paul Young, joins us on this episode of No Small Endeavor. At age 50, William Paul Young wrote the New York Times Best-selling novel “The Shack.” It went on to sell 25 million copies and was turned into a major motion picture. 11 years prior, Paul’s wife discovered he was having an extra-marital affair. With nothing left to hide, he began a journey toward healing and wholeness: dealing with his being abused as a child, dealing with the toxic “snow covered dung” theology of his inherited religious tradition; and his quest for control of his own image-management and the world around him. Subsequently, he wrote “The Shack” at age 50 for his 6 kids to express to them the nature of what he calls “Divine Love”. Paul shares how love, grace, and healing only happen in the present moment, and share some highly practical life experience that can transform one’s most intimate relationships.    Show Notes: Resources mentioned in episode Paul’s book The Shack Bessel van der Kolk’s book The Body Keeps The Score PDF of Lee’s Interview Notes Full Transcript   Subscribe to episodes: Apple | Spotify | Amazon | Stitcher | Google | YouTube Follow Us: Instagram | Twitter | Facebook | YouTube Follow Lee: Instagram | Twitter  Join our Email List: nosmallendeavor.com Become a Member: Virtual Only | Standard | Premium See Privacy Policy: Privacy Policy  Shop No Small Endeavor Merch: Scandalous Witness Course | Scandalous Witness Book |  Joy & the Good Life Course  Amazon Affiliate Disclosure: Tokens Media, LLC is a participant in the Amazon Services LLC Associates Program, an affiliate advertising program designed to provide a means for sites to earn advertising fees by advertising and linking to Amazon.com. See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

How do you forgive someone who committed unspeakable horror against someone you love? In 2015, 21-year-old white supremacist, Dylann Roof, was welcomed into a bible study at Emanuel African Methodist Episcopal Church in Charleston, South Carolina. Minutes later, he opened fire and murdered nine members of the church. At his trial, the family members of those killed got the chance to speak to Roof publicly, voicing their pain; and some, in the midst of such anguish, publicly forgave him. But Sharon Risher, whose mother was shot and killed by Roof that day, was not immediately ready to forgive her mother's killer; for her, it was a long, hard road to forgiveness. Today, we discuss Sharon’s book entitled "For Such a Time as This: Hope and Forgiveness After the Charleston Massacre," which explores her journey of grief, healing, and grace after her mother’s murder. Show Notes: Mentioned in this episode Sharon’s book “For Such a Time as This: Hope and Forgiveness After the Charleston Massacre”  President Obama’s eulogy for the victims  Sharon’s NYT article “I Wish the Jury Had Not Sentenced My Family’s Killer to Death” Lee's Interview Notes Transcription Link   Subscribe to episodes: Apple | Spotify | Amazon | Stitcher | Google | YouTube Follow Us: Instagram | Twitter | Facebook | YouTube Follow Lee: Instagram | Twitter  Join our Email List: nosmallendeavor.com Become a Member: Virtual Only | Standard | Premium See Privacy Policy: Privacy Policy  Shop No Small Endeavor Merch: Scandalous Witness Course | Scandalous Witness Book |  Joy & the Good Life Course |Searching for the Pattern Course  See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

In honor of MLK day, we're once again airing our conversation with Martin Luther King's first lawyer Fred Gray. We hope this episode celebrates the progress made toward justice and reminds us of the work yet to be done. Dr. Gray tells stunning stories of his work as a civil rights lawyer standing before the supreme court on multiple occasions, and what it was like to stand beside MLK and Rosa Parks in the fight for racial equity - a fight, he is careful to note, that is still ongoing. See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

What do our brains want more than chocolate, sex, or a sports car? What does your memory of long past events have to do with the apparently unrelated arguments and anxiety you are experiencing these days? Psychiatrist Curt Thompson discusses these questions from the perspective of both brain science and theology. A psychiatrist in private practice, Dr. Thompson has expertise in interpersonal neurobiology, and contends that a key to living a good life comes quite simply to this: “being known.” Lee and Curt discuss two of Curt’s books, “The Anatomy of the Soul” and “The Soul of Desire,” with conversation on trauma and anxiety, connection and community, and what your memory of long past events has to do with the apparently unrelated arguments you are having many years later.  Books discussed in this episode: Anatomy of the Soul: Surprising Connections between Neuroscience and Spiritual Practices That Can Transform Your Life and Relationships The Soul of Desire: Discovering the Neuroscience of Longing, Beauty, and Community Want more from Curt Thompson in conversation with Lee?  Check out our earlier podcast episode with Curt on Curt’s book The Soul of Shame: Retelling the Stories We Believe About Ourselves.  Additional NSE episodes of related interest: The Price of the Pursuit of Pleasure: Anna Lembke The Ruthless Elimination of Hurry: John Mark Comer What Hath Christianity to do with Psychology? Mark McMinn See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

The folk-pop duo Johnnyswim, comprised of married couple Amanda Sudano and Abner Ramirez, discuss their reality television shows, their public marriage, their radically different childhoods, and their opinions about Christianity in America. See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Why are there different narratives around race in America? Some Americans believe that we are a “shining city on a hill” a beacon of truth and justice for the world, but anyone with eyes can see that there are some major contradictions in that narrative. James Baldwin called this “The Lie” and we discuss it in great detail with Dr. Eddie Glaude and his book Begin Again: James Baldwin's America and its Urgent Lessons For Our Own. The book is a powerful reckoning with America’s ongoing failure to confront the lies it tells itself about race. So when justice never seems to come how can we begin again?   See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Does religion make us happier? David Desteno discusses his book How God Works, in which he makes the argument, backed by research, that the wisdom of the world’s great religious traditions lines up with recent psychological and neuroscientific findings about what constitutes a good, flourishing life. See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

The civil rights movement was led by a host of brilliant and courageous men and women, among their ranks the lawyer Dr. Fred Gray. He was MLK's first attorney, he successfully argued before the Supreme Court multiple times, and he was a close friend of Rosa Parks. Today, he shares those stories, along with his thoughts on the ongoing fight for equity in the United States. See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

What happens when one of the country’s most outspoken critics of white male Christian political conservatism sits down with a well-known white male conservative Christian political pundit? Find out, as Kristin Du Mez and David French discuss politics, culture, and the desperate need for hospitality in the digital age. See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Ethics professor and host Lee C. Camp explores what it means to live a good life by sitting down with some of the world's greatest thinkers, creatives, and everyone in between—from PRX, Tokens Media and Great Feeling Studios.  For fans of On Being, The Daily Stoic, and Oprah's Super Soul. Subscribe wherever you get your podcasts. Guests include: Malcolm Gladwell James Lawson Tara Brach Rainn Wilson Amy Grant David French Ayana Elizabeth Johnson David Brookes Greg Boyle Russell Moore www.nosmallendeavor.com  Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

The inaugural episode of No Small Endeavor, in which Lee discusses the reasons behind the name change, the mission entailed by the new name, and the centrality of conversation, courage, and community. See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

The final episode of Tokens Show (in a way). Jason Eskridge, Michael Hicks, and Odessa Settles discuss their experiences with tokenism, and Lee reveals why, given such realities, the Tokens Show has decided upon a new name.  See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Are many parenting styles doing more harm than good? Alfie Kohn discusses the surprising psychology behind the widely practiced reward/punishment model of raising kids, and why we should “work with” our children instead of trying to control their behavior.  See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

“Justice is what love looks like in public.” In this episode, Justin Jones discusses how his work for justice, particularly during a 62-day non-violent protest outside the Tennessee State Capitol, is itself an act of faith, steeped in self-denying love. See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

What do bourbon, bluegrass, and the Bible have in common? Just ask the Billboard charting Hillbilly Thomists, a group of Catholic Dominican Friars, clad in white tunics and rosaries—playing bluegrass music. Their name, Hillbilly Thomists, is indebted to the Catholic Southern Gothic writer Flannery O'Connor whose mixture of morbidity and grace show up in their songs. We assembled at the Soultrain Sound Studio in Nashville, TN to hear about their vocation, what life is like on the road as occasionally touring musicians, and their many songs including one entitled “Bourbon, Bluegrass and the Bible”.  See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

“Good conversations create personal closeness,” says Heather Holleman. “When you have good conversations, it could intervene in the loneliness epidemic.” Today, she discusses the many tried-and-true methods for becoming better conversationalists – a skill that just might be a central key to human flourishing. See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

“If we are to take heart from the really good things about American history, we have no choice but to reckon first with the dark sides of it,” says Bill McKibben, a prominent journalist, author, and activist. One of the most prominent of environmental activists and authors, McKibben also discusses racial justice, the economic impact of suburbanization, and the relation of the Christian church to social change in America.  See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Are we as good as we think we are? Virtue theory suggests that things like compassion, honesty, and courage are the keys to living a good, happy life. But Christian Miller brings to light a troubling reality: though we all want to be virtuous, it turns out that it doesn’t take much to get us to forsake our values. See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

In a culture brimming with wealth, upward social mobility, and endless access to pleasure, why are we only becoming more anxious, depressed, and unsatisfied? Dr. Anna Lembke makes a claim many of us don’t want to hear, though we know to be true: “Every pleasure has a cost, and that cost is pain. See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Is friendship really a key to being happy? We often make our quest for human flourishing a solitary one, focusing on making changes in our personal mindsets and habits. Yet, much ancient and modern wisdom suggests that we cannot do it alone. In this episode, Andy Gullahorn, Gabe Scott, and Antsy McClain share stories and songs – full of high fives and trailer parks – that showcase the importance of deep friendship and community. See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Might we all be happier if we stopped taking ourselves too seriously? Singer-songwriters Andy Gullahorn and Antsy McClain describe how humor can make us comfortable enough to be vulnerable with each other. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Hymns are often sentimentalized in the American church, cast aside as merely retired songs with dated language, bearing no real appeal or relevance. But of course it may be that our old hymnals have some crucial things to say to us in our current cultural moment. This is the challenge I posed to Odessa Settles, Phil Madeira, and Leslie Jordan: find and perform some old hymns which might be both indicting and encouraging to the modern church, and to the world at large. Beautiful conversation and moving performances, taped at Nashville’s Sound Emporium. See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

How music gives voice to people on the margins; how lament and hope co-exist in songwriting; and wondering what one is really supposed to do with “turn the other cheek,” all with Joy Oladokun. Plus, she performs five of her songs live from Nashville’s Sound Emporium. See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Instagram culture, internet extremism, the Seven Deadly Sins, the hard work of parenting, learning how to grieve, and much more. Plus, KS performs five beautiful songs live from Nashville’s famed Sound Emporium. See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Are the “seven deadly sins” merely a medieval-era reflection upon divine finger-wagging? Rebecca DeYoung explains why the “seven deadly sins” is better understood as a diagnostic tool which may instead facilitate a joyful and flourishing life. See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Does evolutionary theory destroy morality? Barrett contends that evolutionary psychology might instead provide guidance toward practices of sociability, community, and love. See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

A helpful conversation with Suzanne Stabile on the Enneagram: what it is, what it isn’t, and why it can be a helpful tool for the flourishing of the self and the community. See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Edith Hall offers timely commentary on the virtue ethics of Aristotle: and how contemporary society may be missing fundamental keys to living life well. See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

What do Christians get wrong about Jesus? Prof. AJ Levine discusses common mis-readings of the Sermon on the Mount, Jesus’s stance on societal and gender norms, and how “Christian Fragility” impedes one’s ability to listen and learn. See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

David French discusses the culture of animosity in which he finds himself as a political commentator; what it’s like to critique conservatism as a conservative; and why he thinks America’s classical liberalism may yet be salvageable. See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

The commodification of almost everything is one fact of life in the late modern capitalist world in which we live in the west. But commodification even of war?  Justin Bronson Barringer joins us to discuss the business of war and the US military industrial complex. See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Is Conservative Christianity necessarily opposed to reason? Dr. Molly Worthen discusses the history of Protestant Evangelicalism, and how this tradition has often been “perhaps the most preoccupied with squaring reason with their understanding of faith.” A complex and fascinating tale. See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

“I did not go to divinity school to become a pastor. I went to figure out how people could read the Bible and not do justice.” Janet Wolf recounts her experiences doing justice and advocacy work in the face of misogyny, poverty, and racism as the first female Methodist pastor in Lawrence County, Tennessee.  See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

“People are not so afraid of holding a wrong opinion, as they are of holding an opinion alone,” says public theologian Dr. Russell Moore, paraphrasing Soren Kierkegaard. In light of his recent book The Courage to Stand, we discussed the dangers of waging debate for the sake of hostility; the immense value found in cultivating the virtues of courage, prudence, and humility; and why he believes that “only the crucifiable self can find the courage to stand.” And these are not merely academic matters for Russell, having himself experienced trying times of intense public scrutiny from colleagues, friends, enemies, and Donald Trump.  See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Marty Dodson is an acclaimed country singer-songwriter in Nashville. A number of years ago, he and his wife felt compelled to move from their home in Franklin, a wealthy and predominantly white suburb, to East Nashville, a historically black neighborhood which has been the site of much gentrification over the past few decades. When they moved in, they were instantly welcomed by Stephanie Knight, their new neighbor, and a long-time resident of East Nashville. Following the tragic murder of George Floyd, Marty and his wife were walking in their neighborhood when they stopped to talk to Stephanie. A long, tear-filled conversation culminated in Stephanie’s heartbreaking statement: “I’m scared for my boys… I just want them to come home.” It was this conversation that led Marty to start writing “Black Mothers,” a haunting song reminiscent of the Hebrew prophet’s plea for “justice to roll down like waters.” Today, their story, along with a performance of the song they wrote together.   See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

“What should the right level of profit be for a corporation?” In this episode, Jay Jakub discusses why this question must be asked in order for a business to thrive, and how a more holistic approach to capitalism might be adopted to unlock a company’s full potential. And maybe help save the world. See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

A special episode reflecting on over a decade of Thanksgivings spent at Nashville’s historic Ryman auditorium, with some of our favorite performances, sketches, and memories which we’ve shared together. See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Robert P. Jones discusses the ways his research has led to a shocking conclusion: “If you take your average white American, and you add Christian identity, they move up the racism index, not down.” And such a confession, he says, is a necessary starting point before there can be any reconciliation. See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

“Most people are too busy to live emotionally healthy and spiritually vibrant lives.” In this episode, John Mark Comer discusses the importance of taking seriously spiritual formation in a culture of noise and speed; why willpower cannot do what we want it to do; and practical ways we might find and live the good, the true, and the beautiful. See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Father Greg Boyle, founder of Homeboy Industries, the world's largest gang-member rehabilitation program, in one of our most beautiful interviews to date. “You don't go to the margins to make a difference. You go to the margins so that the folks at the margins make you different." See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

What role might race play in today’s ever-increasing gaps of social and economic inequality? And what might we be able to do about it? In this episode, Dr. Andre Churchwell explains how a life of cultivated virtue and diversity might be necessary to equip us to address such issues of injustice. See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

What if the seemingly-opposite political forces of Left and Right are really two sides of the same philosophical coin? Patrick Deneen discusses the ways in which the modern West has taken for granted its long-held philosophy of Liberalism, and why this philosophy is starting to show signs of an inevitable failure. See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

“It has to be the joyful journey for justice,” says Ben Cohen, the world-famous “Ben” in Ben & Jerry’s. In this episode, we hear from Ben how starting an ice cream business has given him the means to do justice with hope and humor. See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

A special episode, taped in front of a live audience, in which Cyntoia Brown Long chronicles her experience leading to and within the Tennessee prison system, and the dramatic, at times hard-to-believe nature of the grace and providence which led to her coming-to-faith and ultimate release. See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

The X-CLUB, and the invention of the supposed war between science and faith, with astro-physicist and theologian David Wilkinson of Durham University. See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

What does the resurrection of Jesus have to do with climate change? Chris Doran discusses why a rightly-seen eschatological hope should necessarily drive Christians towards climate care. See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Ever wonder about “everybody getting a trophy” and the cult of self-esteem? Kristin Neff discusses the potential dangers of self-esteem—like bullying and narcissism—and the preferred practice of self-compassion. See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

“Health inequities started with slavery,” says Dr. Quincy Byrdsong in this episode on healthcare inequities. We discuss at length the infamous Tuskegee Syphilis trials, and the persistent issues in healthcare and social justice. We close with a personal conversation about his experience as an African-American man, and how he has emotionally and professionally navigated doing such work. See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

The US, says Harvard Prof. David Hemenway, does not have a “violence problem” in comparison to other high-income countries in terms of robbery, assault, or burglary. But we have much more homicide and gun-related problems: “A child in the United States is much more likely to be murdered with a firearm than children in these other countries: We are twenty-nine times higher.” From the perspective of public health, what practical helps might there be? Listener discretion is advised. See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Professor of Religion at Dartmouth College Randall Balmer tells of a meeting in Washington, DC that changed the course of his academic career, and set him on an unexpected investigation: the Religious Right’s origins is not to be located in the issue of abortion. Instead, he concludes, the movement began “to defend racial segregation.” See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Poet Christian Wiman discusses doubt and faith; the role of poetry “when the world is burning”; ways in which being raised in west Texas made him the poet and person he is; how “destitution and abundance are two facets of the one face of God”; along with four poem recitations. See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Not so sure about Christians touting second amendment gun rights? A discussion with the editors of God and Guns: The Bible Against American Gun Culture, who challenge the too-easy pro-gun rhetoric of many American Christians. See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

“Never, ever be afraid to make some noise and get in good trouble,” said Congressman John Lewis. Leigh Nash and Matt Maher met for a song co-write honoring Lewis’s wisdom, hoping to speak to issues of race in America. Knowing their white perspective was not sufficient for an honest song, some awkwardness and vulnerability led to a request of their third co-writer Ruby Amanfu. That gave rise to their moving song “Good Trouble.” Includes live performance. See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Conservative American Christianity insists we must not let the wider culture determine what we do, and yet we see that happening precisely in the patriarchy that characterizes much of American Christianity. So argues Dr. Barr, in her critique of the subordination of women in the church. Plus live satire from Tokens Show’s own Brother Preacher, aka Greg Lee. This and more, all playing off Dr. Barr’s book The Making of Biblical Womanhood: How the Subjugation of Women Became Gospel Truth. See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Eugene Cho is a Korean-born immigrant to the United States and now activist and author. We discuss his moving and distressing childhood experiences at age six; his journey to Christianity; and how both those realities have given him insight and possibilities for service to the world, as well as put him at odds with both the right and the left in America. See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Psychiatrist Curt Thompson joins Lee to discuss his book The Soul of Shame. They discuss the mechanism of shame, how it impedes joy, connection, creativity and human flourishing; and how vulnerability subverts shame. Don’t just listen to this one. Take notes, and try it…  But it’s not for the faint of heart. See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

In light of the recent rise of anti-Asian-American hostility and violence, we interview Dr. Karen Korematsu, daughter of famed civil-rights activist Fred Korematsu, the namesake of the infamous 1944 Supreme Court Case Korematsu v. United States. Mr. Korematsu, a Japanese-American and American citizen, refused to comply with President Franklin Delano Roosevelt’s executive order which would have forced his re-location to an American “concentration camp.” In addition, we talk to Korean-born activist Eugene Cho, on his moving experiences as an American immigrant. Plus, live musical performances by Buddy Greene and the Most Outstanding Horeb Mountain Boys. See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

An interview with Angela Williams Gorrell, Professor of Practical Theology at Baylor University, and author of a new book entitled The Gravity of Joy: A Story of Being Lost and Found. Angela recounts her own experiences with the sudden, tragic, and nearly simultaneous losses of three family members; how America’s current crisis of despair can be traced and understood through suicide and addiction rates; and the surprising ways in which gateways to joy can be found in the midst of deep grief; plus, additional commentary from Angela’s former boss at Yale, Miroslav Volf, on the connection between joy and sorrow. See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

An interview with Kristin Du Mez, Professor of History and Gender Studies at Calvin University and author of a provocative new book entitled Jesus and John Wayne: How White Evangelicals Corrupted a Faith and Fractured a Nation. In light of the fact that 81% of white evangelicals supposedly voted for Donald Trump in the 2016 election, many have tried to make sense of how “family values voters” could have supported Trump. Du Mez, in contrast, claims that this support of Trump was not in contradiction to, but consistent with, the deeper values of American evangelical Christianity. Regardless of your politics, you will not find this an episode that leaves you without some emotion. See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

An interview with Katharine Hayhoe, one of the leading climate scientists in the United States, and author of a soon-to-be-released book entitled Saving Us: A Climate Scientist’s Case for Hope and Healing in a Divided World. Katharine and Lee discuss the supposed dichotomy between evangelical Christianity and climate science; the truth about some common climate change myths; and how Katharine, as an evangelical Christian herself, receives hate mail and death threats on an almost daily basis, and yet sees Christians as the perfect people to care about stewarding their responsibility to look after creation. See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

An interview with Peter Harris, Anglican clergyman and founder of the highly esteemed Christian conservation non-profit A Rocha International. Peter and Lee discuss why the political polarization of the climate crisis in the United States is more an accident of history than a theological necessity; the ways in which fundamental Christian orthodoxy supports ecological conservation; and how, the preservation, or decimation, of much of the biosphere is dependent upon the choices of evangelical Christians. See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

A frequent guest on Tokens Show, Audrey Assad joins Lee to discuss her new memoir Doubt Becomes Wonder: Embracing the Loss of Everything You Thought You Knew. They discuss healing from childhood wounds, and the consequent navigation of doubt; and Audrey’s experience as a woman in the church. PLUS: two live studio performances. See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Drew Holcomb, whom the Rolling Stone recently called “one of Americana’s Most Popular Stars,” talks with Lee about his surprising road through academia to becoming a singer-songwriter; the tragic loss of his younger brother; and what it’s like to have courage and hope as a songwriter, artist, husband, and father in the midst of the current polarized cultural moment. PLUS! Live in-the-studio-performances of two of his most moving songs: “You Never Leave My Heart” and “Dragons.” See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Bill Cavanaugh, professor of Catholic studies at DePaul University, discusses with Lee his recent provocative article entitled "Electing Republicans has not Reversed Roe vs. Wade. It's Time to Change Our Strategy." in which Bill shares some shocking realities which are being little discussed and appear to be little known about the abortion debates in America. In addition, Lee and Bill discuss Bill’s book Torture and Eucharist on the Pinochet regime in Chile, along with a brief discussion of Bill’s book Being Consumed, in which Bill both critiques naïve notions of the “free market” while not advocating state socialism as the only other alternative. See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

An interview with Megan Barry, former mayor of Nashville. Lee and Megan discuss the tragic subject of addiction and how it led to the accidental overdose and death of her son Max; what it has been like to find hope and healing in both the midst and aftermath of such a tragedy; what there may be to learn, both personally and communally, about the various stigmas and statistics currently surrounding the issue; and the ways, both large and small, in which the current epidemic of addiction may be fought. See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

An interview with Justin McBrayer, Professor of Philosophy at Fort Lewis College, Executive Director of the Society of Christian Philosophers, and the author of a new book entitled Beyond Fake News: Finding the Truth in a World of Misinformation. Lee and Justin discuss the current crisis of a world plagued with false information, made worse by new media and technology; some surprising ways in which we ourselves often contribute in oblivious fashion to such a crisis; and some practices which we may adopt to combat the spread, both within ourselves and within our larger communities, of fake news. See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

An interview with justice-seeker Lindsey Glenn Krinks on her experience as an advocate for the incarcerated, the sick, and the homeless; what it has been like to be a woman interested in the male-dominated field of theology; stories she has lived as a co-founder of Open Table Nashville, a nonprofit which seeks to disrupt cycles of poverty; and her new book, Praying with Our Feet: Pursuing Justice and Healing on the Streets. See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

An interview with Alister McGrath, esteemed professor of Science and Religion at the University of Oxford, and one of the world’s leading Christian apologists. Lee and Alister discuss one of the great modern dichotomies of our day: the supposed mutually exclusive choice between science and faith; why the teachings and writings of Einstein played a significant role in undermining McGrath’s own former atheism; and why adhering to a more holistic, incorporative view of science, religion, and philosophy may lead us to a better understanding of ourselves and of the world. See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

A special episode chronicling the capital punishment case of Pervis Payne, an inmate for over three decades on Tennessee’s death row; a similar story from former death row inmate Ndume Olatushani; and commentary from author and activist Shane Claiborne about the Christian church’s complex relationship with capital punishment. Plus musical performances by Buddy Greene, Sonya Isaacs, Vince Gill, and Odessa Settles. See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Each year since 2008 we've spent the Sunday before Thanksgiving at Nashville's Historic Ryman Auditorium for an evening centered on gratitude and hospitality. This special episode of the Tokens Podcast reflects on over a decade of Thanksgivings spent at the Mother Church of Country Music with some of our favorite performances. See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Naomi Shihab Nye is the author and/or editor of more than 30 volumes, the Young People’s Poet Laureate, and as we used to say in Alabama, the winner of more awards than you can shake a stick at. In this sort of wisdom-of-the-ages interview, Naomi discusses kindness, the joy which accompanies sorrow, paying attention, and living life large.  She also shares two of her well-known poems:  “Kindness,” and “Gate A4.” See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Diana Oestreich, a combat veteran of the Iraq war, had a “desert experience” precipitated by her sergeant’s orders in a 4.00 a.m. combat convoy safety briefing. We discuss that story and the unfolding of her remarkable experiences deployed to a combat  zone, the exercise of a new kind of courage, and her new book entitled Waging Peace: One Soldier's Story of Putting Love First See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

An interview with Dr. Willie James Jennings, Associate Professor of Systematic Theology and Africana Studies at Yale University, on his book The Christian Imagination: Theology and the Origins of Race. Jennings argues that the medieval European colonialist Christian vision imagined the entire globe in terms of a racist imagination; and that the continue to reap the consequences to this day; and that the Christian tradition does, in fact, have resources to re-imagine a new sort of world.  LINKS: Dr. Jennings’ book, The Christian Imagination Tokens Online Master Course with Miroslav Volf, Lee C. Camp, and John Mark Hicks. See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Stanley Hauerwas was once dubbed by Time Magazine with the moniker, “America’s Greatest Theologian.” This is ironic because he’s spent much of his life criticizing American Christianity. Join us for our evening with Stanley, a beloved, profane, beautifully grumpy theologian, as he shares about non-violence, the story of Billy Dick, and a brief commentary on Christians and Donald Trump. PLUS: Stanley Hauerwas makes his acting debut with a stand-up comedy with the Tokens Radio Players. See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Irish poet, peace-maker and theologian Pádraig Ó Tuama joins Lee for a discussion on practices of peace-making, including peace with oneself. They both discuss the great significance of John 21 for their own lives. And Pádraig shares readings from his poems “The Facts of Life,” “The Pedagogy of Conflict,” and “Shaking Hands.” LINKS: Padraig Books: In the Shelter Sorry For Your Troubles Daily Prayer with the Corrymeela Community Readings from the Book of Exile Tokens Online Master Courses See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Loretta Ross is a black feminist, a human rights activist, and an advocate for most things for the American political left. But in a recent New York Times opinion piece, she argues that American culture is sick with calling out, cancelling, and virtue signaling. Co-host Lauren White joins Lee Camp for a provocative conversation sure to be simultaneously celebrated and criticized by both right and left, which prescribes “calling in”—a call for accountability with love—as a creative and productive way forward. See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Mark McMinn, Professor of Psychology discusses the presumed antagonism between Christianity and psychology; the recent new research findings which posit a much larger ground of overlap; The surprising consensus between new findings in psychology and traditional Christian virtue theory; one of the common denominators in cases of psychosis and depression; and Lee discusses some of his own experience with depression. See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Charlie Strobel is a sort of elder-statesman in Nashville, a Catholic priest, and founder of Room in the Inn. In a moving conversation with Charlie about some of his most important life moments, Lee and Charlie discuss loneliness and solitude; therapy and the opening of the self; receiving hospitality from the homeless as a boy; and the murder of Charlie’s mother. Charlie shares things regarding which he says “Nobody really knows this, but I guess, I don't know if I should say it, but, well…” LINKS: - Tokens Courses: tokensshow.com/courses See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Host Lee C. Camp in a recap of season one, wandering hither and yon through the archives: on the burning of the world; the apparent irrelevance of poetry, song, and story; the importance of shutting up and listening; on the refusal to practice “othering”; and the deep need for humility as a social virtue. See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Author and story practitioner travels to some of the globe’s most contentious socio-political locales. He’s convinced you cannot argue people into a new way of seeing the world, you can only story them into new ways of thinking. In this compelling episode, we hear some of the troubling and violent, yet nonetheless hopeful, stories he’s learned. And we reflect upon personal practices of peace-making, with others and with ourselves.  LINKS: Link to Michael’s book Master Course with Miroslav Volf See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Grammy and Dove Award winner Ashley Cleveland holds back little, and discusses major life lessons: from her adolescent “bad habit of behaving badly” through the storm of subsequent consequences and recovery; plus a conversation about the south and race, a horrifying murder, and Anne Lamott’s wisdom about what we do, and do not, have time for.  Links: Master Course with Miroslav Volf See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

No theology of grumpiness here: Miroslav Volf (Professor of Theology, and Director of the Center for Faith and Culture at Yale University) sketches some initial direction for a Theology of Joy. Volf himself having suffered under a communist regime, and his father have imprisoned in a forced labor camp, he provides compelling possibilities for joy in some of the most difficult of circumstances. AND: Brother Preacher makes an (intrusive) appearance. LINKS: - Master Course with Miroslav Volf (get 50% off with code VOLF50): https://www.tokensshow.com/courses - Book: Exclusion and Embrace, Revised and Updated: A Theological Exploration of Identity, Otherness, and Reconciliation - https://amzn.to/2ZPPbqF - Book: For the Life of the World: Theology That Makes a Difference (Theology for the Life of the World) - https://amzn.to/2ZM9t46 - Book: Flourishing: Why We Need Religion in a Globalized World - https://amzn.to/32CD9CD - Book: Allah: A Christian Response - https://amzn.to/2OGBzrb  See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Ian Cron, host of the Typology podcast and author of The Road Back to You, discusses finding himself and helping others find themselves, through the gifts of both recovery and the Enneagram. Facing resentments, as well as one’s shadow side, turn out to be key practices in becoming more truly human. LINKS:  Ian’s Podcast, Typology Tokens Online Courses Tokens 2020 Subscriptions See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

What do you get when a woman from north Alabama, raised conservative in most every way, goes to a private Christian college, earns her master’s degree in literature from another Christian college, and then earns a PhD in theology from Divinity School? A Christian feminist, of course. Get a crash course on feminism, and learn why and how Christianity made Lauren Smelser White a feminist.  LINKS: Join Tokens in 2020 for our online shows and courses: www.tokensshow.com/2020 See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Jewish Vanderbilt Divinity school Professor of New Testament AJ Levine, self-described as a Yankee Feminist, joins Tokens to talk about two of her books; but more, how she once wanted to be the pope, what she does not like about liberal Christians, and a marvelous telling of the parable of the Good Samaritan. LINKS: Amy-Jill's books: The Misunderstood Jew: The Church and the Scandal of the Jewish Jesus https://amzn.to/38mDY3d Short Stories by Jesus: The Enigmatic Parables of a Controversial Rabbi https://amzn.to/3dP2gEm Update on Jameel McGee: Tokensshow.com/ac More about Tokens: Tokensshow.com/2020 See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Andrew Collins, a white, dirty cop, falsifies his testimony. A black innocent man, Jameel McGee, gets sentenced to ten years in the Federal Pen. This is the story of the unanticipated consequences of a false-arrest gone bad, and then gone bad again. LINKS: Convicted: An Innocent Man, the Cop Who Framed Him, and an Unlikely Journey of Forgiveness and Friendship Tokens 2020 Subscriptions See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

In the only instance of a papal address to a joint session of Congress, Pope Francis heralded Dorothy Day as one of four Americans worthy of great emulation. Host Lee C. Camp interviews Martin Doblmeier on his new film about Dorothy Day, along with his work on two other American theologians and activists Reinhold Niebuhr and Howard Thurman. EPISODE LINKS: Pope Francis Address Dorothy Day Film Howard Thurman Film Reinhold Niebuhr film Tokens 2020 Subscriptions See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

New York Times columnist David Brooks reflects upon the major themes from his book The Road to Character, including the possibility of grace awakening the desire to live a better life, making commitments, mothers, and Saint Augustine. Lauren White joins Lee Camp for a first co-hosting stint. See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Three very different accounts of hospitality: one entails sneaking across the border in the back of a pick-up truck. Another entails seeking out a Muslim imam to say some things after September 11. And a third entails a radical subversion of southern racism through the exercise of both medical expertise, and kindness.  Our episode on hospitality comprises an interview with author Brian McLaren, a spoken word performance by Leslie Garcia, and an interview with beloved Nashville performer Odessa Settles. LINKS: Brian’s book: "Why Did Jesus, Moses, the Buddha, and Mohammed Cross the Road? Christian Identity in a Multi-Faith World" - https://amzn.to/2ZKmcVj Tokens 2020 Subscriptions: www.tokensshow.com/2020 See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

The supposed conflict between faith and science, as typified in the debate between fundamentalist Christianity and the theory of evolution, turns out to be hiding some skeletons in its closet. This episode explores some crucial unknowns, and breaks down some false dichotomies, in conversations on site of the famed Scopes Trial in Dayton, Tennessee with Pulitzer prize-winning author Ed Larson and celebrated activist and author Rachel Held Evans (who tragically passed away in 2019), as well as an interview at Pepperdine University with Dr. Francis Collins, director of the National Institutes of Health.  Find links to videos and photos from our show at the Rhea County Courthouse, along with historical photos and other helpful links on the episode page at www.tokensshow.com/blog/s1e4 See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

A follow-up to episode three with a special performance of Marie Howe's poem, "Part of Eve's Discussion" set to music by composer Stephen Lamb. Vocalist is Cindy Morgan, Alicia Enstrom and Katelyn Westergard on Violin, Kristin Wilkinson on Viola, Nicholas Gold on Cello. More about the Tokens Podcast at tokensshow.com/podcast See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

A strange conversion experience has happened to religion here in the Bible belt: once known as a key to social transformation, these days it’s more likely the mechanism of socio-political conservatism. So perhaps one of the key questions to living life well in our contemporary world is how to get troubled. Poetry, anyone? The unlikely possibility that poetry could do anything of the sort is explored by former U.S. Poet Laureate Tracy K. Smith, and former NY State Poet Laureate Marie Howe, as they both claim the possibility that poetry can do a great deal of troubling of the waters, can provide a counter-spell to the hypnotizing forces of either social hostility or consumerism.  LINKS: Tracy K. Smith book, “Life on Mars: Poems” Tracy K. Smith book, "Wade in the Water: Poems” Marie Howe book, ”What the Living Do” Marie Howe book, “Magdalene: Poems” Tokens 2020 Subscriptions See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Host Lee C. Camp invents a phrase: the “sunk-suffering fallacy.” Borrowing from the economists’ sunk-cost fallacy, the sunk-suffering fallacy provides a potential explanation for why some Christians tend to be so horribly partisan. Is there any way out of such a mess? Lee wonders about such questions in his interview with former Tennessee governor Bill Haslam. Haslam reveals an almost jarring key to the kingdom of doing public service, and some virtues to live by. LINKS: - Website episode page: https://www.tokensshow.com/blog/s1e1 See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Host Lee C. Camp interviews the MacArthur Genius Grant recipient Jerry Mitchell on his new book Race Against Time: A Reporter Reopens the Unsolved Murder Cases of the Civil Rights Era. The conversation discusses Jerry’s anger, his quest for justice, and the manner in which Jerry’s faith drove that quest, contributing to convictions in 24 of those cold Civil Rights era murder cases.  LINKS: - Website episode page: https://www.tokensshow.com/blog/s1e1 - Jerry Book link: https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/1451645139/ref=as\_li\_tl?camp=1789&creative=9325&creativeASIN=1451645139&ie=UTF8&linkCode=as2&linkId=a9e1e3e6aa2da672a65d67843ffabcc3&tag=tokensshow-20 See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices