Dr. Esme Dark joins Kyle Buller for a conversation on psychedelic therapy, somatic psychotherapy, and shadow work. Based in Australia, Dark is a clinical psychologist, somatic psychotherapist, and psychedelic therapist. She shares her perspective on Australia's authorized prescriber model, the role of psychotherapy in psychedelic care, and what it means to work with the body before, during, and after a psychedelic experience. The discussion stays practical. Dark draws on her work in research settings, including psilocybin-assisted psychotherapy for generalized anxiety disorder at Monash University. She explains that Australia has not decriminalized psychedelics. Instead, psilocybin and MDMA can be prescribed in limited cases through a psychiatrist-led system. That distinction matters, especially as public discussion often moves faster than the actual clinical infrastructure. Kyle and Dark also explore what happens in the therapy room. They talk about nervous system activation, body-based awareness, co-therapy, breathwork, and the challenge of knowing when to intervene and when to stay out of the way. The episode also turns toward creativity, self-expression, and the parts of the self that often remain split off or underdeveloped.

MAPS co-executive directors Betty Aldworth and Ismail Ali join Psychedelics Today to talk about leading one of the most visible organizations in the psychedelic field during a period of transition. The conversation covers their move into permanent leadership, how they work together, and how MAPS is thinking about research, education, policy, and movement strategy after a difficult period for the organization and the broader field.

Jen Davenport joins Psychedelics Today to interview co-founder Joe Moore about the growth of Psychedelics Today, the broader psychedelic ecosystem, and how professionals are beginning to engage with psychedelic ideas. Davenport is the founder of Iron Thread Partners and a graduate of the Vital psychedelic training program. Her work focuses on executive leadership, decision making, and organizational development. In this conversation she asks Moore about the evolution of Psychedelics Today and the changes he has witnessed across the psychedelic field over the past decade. Moore explains that Psychedelics Today began as a podcast exploring psychedelic research, therapy, and culture. Over time the project expanded into a media and education platform covering psychedelic science, harm reduction, and professional training. The organization now produces podcasts, journalism, courses, and public conversations about psychedelics and their place in modern society. A central part of the discussion is psychedelic integration. Moore notes that insight during a psychedelic experience does not automatically lead to lasting change. The integration process often requires continued work through journaling, meditation, therapy, and community support. These practices help people translate insights into stable changes in behavior and perspective. The conversation also explores policy changes in the United States. Colorado's Natural Medicine framework is creating a regulated system for psychedelic services while the state also maintains a broader decriminalization approach. Moore discusses the tension between regulated access and grassroots psychedelic culture, as well as the questions around accessibility, pricing, and corporate participation. Davenport asks how executives and professionals are approaching psychedelics. In some circles psychedelics are framed as tools for creativity or performance. Moore cautions against this framing. Psychedelics often open difficult personal material and should be approached with care rather than treated as productivity tools. Education remains a recurring theme throughout the episode. As public interest grows, Moore stresses the importance of studying the legal landscape, understanding the scientific literature, and developing responsible practices for preparation and integration. The conversation offers a grounded look at how Psychedelics Today approaches the psychedelic resurgence. Rather than focusing on hype, Moore emphasizes education, safety, and thoughtful engagement with psychedelic experiences.

Melissa Lavasani & Jay Kopelman join our podcast to discuss how psychedelic policy is actually moving in Washington, DC. Lavasani leads Psychedelic Medicine Coalition, a DC-based advocacy organization focused on educating federal officials and advancing legislation around psychedelic medicine. Kopelman is CEO of Mission Within Foundation, which provides scholarships for veterans and first responders seeking psychedelic-assisted therapy retreats, often outside the United States. The conversation centers on veterans, the VA, and why that system may be the first realistic federal pathway for psychedelic care. Early Themes Lavasani describes PMC's work on Capitol Hill, including hosting events that bring lawmakers, staffers, and advocates into the same room. Her focus is steady engagement. In DC, progress often happens through repeated conversations, not headlines. Kopelman shares his background as a Marine and how his own psychedelic-assisted therapy experience led him to Mission Within. The foundation has funded more than 250 scholarships for veterans and first responders seeking treatment for PTSD, mild traumatic brain injury, depression, and addiction. They connect this work to pending veteran-focused legislation and explain why the VA matters. As a closed health system, the VA can pilot programs, gather data, and refine protocols without the pressures of private healthcare markets. Core Insights A recent Capitol Hill gathering, For Veteran Society, brought together members of Congress and leaders from the psychedelic caucus. Lavasani describes candid feedback from lawmakers. The message was clear: coordinate messaging, avoid fragmentation, and move while bipartisan interest remains. Veteran healthcare is not framed as the final goal. It is a starting point. If psychedelic therapies can demonstrate safety and effectiveness within the VA, broader adoption becomes more plausible. Kopelman raises operational realities that must be addressed: Standardized safety protocols across providers Integration support, not medication alone Clear training pathways for clinicians Real-world data beyond tightly screened clinical trials They also address recent negative headlines involving ibogaine treatment abroad. Kopelman emphasizes the need for shared learning across providers, especially when adverse events occur. Lavasani argues that inconsistency within the ecosystem can slow federal confidence. Later Discussion and Takeaways The discussion widens to federal momentum around addiction and mental health. Lavasani notes that new funding initiatives signal growing openness to innovative treatment models, even if psychedelics are not named explicitly in every announcement. Both guests stress that policy moves slowly by design. Meetings, follow-ups, and relationship building often matter more than public statements. For clinicians, researchers, operators, and advocates, the takeaways are direct: Veterans are likely the first federal pathway Public education remains essential Safety standards must be shared and transparent Integration and workforce development need attention now If psychedelic medicine enters federal systems, infrastructure will determine success. Frequently Asked Questions What do Melissa Lavasani & Jay Kopelman say about VA psychedelic policy? They argue that veteran-focused legislation offers a realistic first federal pathway for psychedelic-assisted care. Is ibogaine currently available through the VA? No. They discuss ibogaine in the context of private retreats and future possibilities, not an existing VA program. Why do Melissa Lavasani & Jay Kopelman emphasize coordination? Lawmakers respond more positively when advocates present aligned messaging and clear priorities. What safety issues are discussed by Melissa Lavasani & Jay Kopelman? They highlight the need for standardized screening, monitoring, integration support, and transparent review of adverse events. Closing Melissa Lavasani & Jay Kopelman provide a grounded look at how psychedelic policy develops inside federal systems. Their message is practical: veterans may be the first lane, but long-term success depends on coordination, safety standards, and sustained engagement. Closing This episode captures a real-time view of how federal policy could shape the next phase of the psychedelic resurgence, especially through veteran-facing legislation and VA infrastructure. Melissa Lavasani & Jay Kopelman argue that coordination, public education, and shared safety standards will shape whether access expands with credibility and care. Transcript Joe Moore: [00:00:00] Hello everybody. Welcome back to Psychedelics Today. Today we have two guests, um, got Melissa Sani from Psychedelic Medicine Coalition. We got Jake Pelman from Mission Within Foundation. We're gonna talk about I bga I became policy on a recent, uh, set of meetings in Washington, DC and, uh, all sorts of other things I'm sure. Joe Moore: But thank you both for joining me. Melissa Lavasani: Thanks for having us. Jay Kopelman: Yeah, it's a pleasure. Thanks. Joe Moore: Yeah. Um, Melissa, I wanna have you, uh, jump in. First. Can you tell us a little bit about, uh, your work and what you do at PMC? Melissa Lavasani: Yeah, so Psychedelic Medicine Coalition is, um, the only DC based Washington DC based advocacy organization dedicated to the advancing the issue of psychedelics, um, and making sure the federal government has the education they need, um, and understands the issue inside out so that they can generate good policy around, around psychedelic medicines. Melissa Lavasani: [00:01:00] Uh, we. Host Hill events. We host other convenings. Our big event every year is the Federal Summit on psychedelic medicine. Um, that's going to be May 14th this year. Um, where we talk about kinda the pressing issues that need to be talked about, uh, with government officials in the room, um, so that we can incrementally move this forward. Melissa Lavasani: Um, our presence here in Washington DC is, is really critical for this issue's success because, um, when we're talking about psychedelic medicines, um, from the federal government pers perspective, you know, they are, they are the ones that are going to initiate the policies that create a healthcare system that can properly facilitate these medicines and make sure, um, patient safety is a priority. Melissa Lavasani: And there's guardrails on this. And, um, you know, there, it's, it's really important that we have. A home base for this issue in Washington DC just [00:02:00] because, uh, this is very complicated as a lot of your viewers probably understand, and, you know, this can get lost in the mix of all the other issues that, um, lawmakers in DC are focused on right now. Melissa Lavasani: And we need to keep that consistent presence here so that this continues to be a priority for members of Congress. Joe Moore: Mm. I love this. And Jay, can you tell us a bit about yourself and mission within Foundation? Jay Kopelman: Yeah, sure. Joe, thanks. Uh, I, I am the CEO of Mission within Foundation. Prior to this, most of my adult life was spent in the military as a Marine. Jay Kopelman: And I came to this. Role after having, uh, a psychedelic assisted therapy experience myself at the mission within down in Mexico, which is where pretty much we all go. Um, we are here to help [00:03:00] provide, uh, access for veterans and first responders to be able to attend psychedelic assisted therapy retreats to treat issues like mild TBI, post-traumatic stress disorder, uh, depression, sometimes addiction at, at a very low level. Jay Kopelman: Um, and, and so we've, we've been doing this for a little more than a year now and have provided 250 plus scholarships to veterans and first responders to be able to access. These retreats and these, these lifesaving medicines. Um, we're also partnered, uh, you may or may not know with Melissa at Psychedelic Medicine Coalition to help advance education and policy, specifically the innovative, uh, therapy Centers of Excellence Act [00:04:00] that Melissa has worked for a number of years on now to bring to both Houses of Congress. Joe Moore: Thank you for that. Um, so let's chat a little bit about what this event was that just, uh, went down, uh, what, what was it two weeks ago at this point? Melissa Lavasani: Yeah. Yeah. It's called For Veteran Society and it's all, um, there's a lot of dialogue on Capitol Hill about veterans healthcare and psychedelics, but where I've been frustrated is that, you know, it was just a lot of. Melissa Lavasani: Talk about what the problems are and not a lot of talk about like how we actually propel things forward. Um, so it, at that event, I thought it was really important and we had three members of Congress there, um, Morgan Latrell, who has been a champion from day one and his time in Congress, um, having gone through the experience himself, um, [00:05:00] at Mission within, um, and then the two chairs of the psychedelic caucus, uh, Lou Correa and Jack Bergman. Melissa Lavasani: And we really got down to the nitty gritty of like w like why this has taken so long and you know, what is actually happening right now? What are the possibilities and what the roadblocks are. And it was, I thought it was a great conversation. Um, we had an interesting kind of dynamic with Latres is like a very passionate about this issue in particular. Melissa Lavasani: Um, I think it was, I think it was really. A great event. And, you know, two days later, Jack Bergman introduced his new bill for the va. Um, so it was kind of like the precursor to that bill getting introduced. And we're just excited for more and more conversations about how the government can gently guide this issue to success. Joe Moore: Hmm. Yeah. [00:06:00] That's fantastic. Um, yeah, I was a little bummed I couldn't make it, but next time, I hope. But I've heard a lot of good things and, um, it's, it sounded like there was some really important messages in, in terms of like feedback from legislators. Yeah. Yeah. Could you speak to that? Melissa Lavasani: Yeah, I mean, I think when, uh, representative Latrell was speaking, he really impressed on us a couple things. Melissa Lavasani: Um, first is that, you know, they really kind of need the advocates to. Coordinate, collaborate and come up with like a, a strategic plan, you know, without public education. Um, talking to members of Congress about this issue is, is really difficult. You know, like PMC is just one organization. We're very little mission within, very little, um, you know, we're all like, kind of new in navigating, um, this not so new issue, but new to Washington DC [00:07:00] issue. Melissa Lavasani: Um, without that public education as a baseline, uh, it's, it's, you have to spend a lot of time educating members of Congress. You know, that's like one of our things is, you know, we have to, we don't wanna tell Congress what direction to go to. We wanna provide them the information so they understand it very intimately and know how to navigate through things. Melissa Lavasani: Um, and secondly. Um, he got pretty frank with us and said, you know, we've got one cha one chance at this issue. And it's like, that's, that's kind of been like my talking point since I started. PMC is like, you have a very limited window, um, when these kind of issues pop up and they're new and they're fresh and you have a lot of the veteran community coming out and talking about it. Melissa Lavasani: And there's a lot of energy there. But now is the time to really move forward, um, with some real legislation that can be impactful. Um, but, you know, we've gotta [00:08:00] be careful. We, we forget, I think sometimes those of us who are in the ecosystem forget that our level of knowledge about these medicines and a lot of us have firsthand experience, um, with these drugs and, and our own healing journeys is, um, we forget that there is a public out there that doesn't have the level of knowledge that we all have. Melissa Lavasani: And, um. We gotta make sure that we're sticking to the right elements of, of, of what needs to happen. We need to be sure that our talking points are on track and we're not getting sideways about anything and going down roads that we don't need to talk about. It's why, um, you know, PMC is very focused on, um, moving forward veteran legislation right now. Melissa Lavasani: Not because we're a veteran organization, but because we're, we see this long-term policy track here. Um, we know where we want to get [00:09:00] to, um. Um, and watching other healthcare issues kind of come up and then go through the VA healthcare system, I think it's a really unique opportunity, um, to utilize the VA as this closed system, the biggest healthcare system in the country to evaluate, uh, how psychedelics operate within systems like that. Melissa Lavasani: And, you know, before they get into, um, other healthcare systems. What do we need to fix? What do we need to pay attention to? What's something that we're paying too much attention to that doesn't necessarily need that much attention? So it's, um, it's a real opportunity to look at psychedelic medicines within a healthcare system and obviously continue to gather the data. Melissa Lavasani: Um, Bergman's Bill emerging, uh, expanding veteran access to emerging treatments. Um, not only mandates the research, it gives the VA authority for this, uh, for running trials and, and creating programs around psychedelic medicines. But also, [00:10:00] one of the great things about it, I think, is it provides an on-ramp for veterans that don't necessarily qualify for clinical trials. Melissa Lavasani: You know, I think that's one of the biggest criticisms of clinical trials is like you're cre you're creating a vacuum for people and people don't live in a vacuum. So we don't necessarily know what psychedelics are gonna look like in real life. Um, but with this expanding veteran access bill that Bergman introduced, it provides the VA an opportunity to provide this access under. Melissa Lavasani: Um, in a, in a safe container with medical supervision while collecting data, um, while ensuring that the veteran that is going through this process has the support systems that it needs. So, um, you know, I think that there's a really unique opportunity here, and like Latrell said, like, we've got one shot at this. Melissa Lavasani: We have people's attention in Congress. Um, now's the time to start acting, and let's be really considerate and thoughtful about what we're doing with it. Joe Moore: Thanks for that, Melissa and Jay, how, [00:11:00] anything to add there on kind of your takeaways from the this, uh, last visit in dc? Jay Kopelman: Yeah, I, I think that Melissa highlighted it really well and there, there were a couple other things that I, I think, you know, you could kind of tie it all together with some other issues that we face in this country, uh, and that. Jay Kopelman: Uh, representative Correa brought up as well, but one of the things I wanted to go back and say is that veterans have kind of led this movement already, right? So, so it's a, it's a good jumping off point, right? That it's something people from both sides of the aisle, from any community in America can get behind. Jay Kopelman: You know, if you think about it, uh, in World War ii, you know, we had a million people serving our population was like, not even 200 million, but now [00:12:00] we have a population of 330 million, and at any given time there might be a million people in uniform, including the Reserve and the National Guard. So it's, it, it's an easy thing to get behind this small part of the population that is willing to sign that contract. Jay Kopelman: Where you are saying, yeah, I'm going to defend my country, possibly at the risk of my l my own life. So that's the first thing. The other thing is that the VA being a closed health system, and they don't have shareholders to answer to, they can take some risks, they can be innovative and be forward thinking in the ways that some other healthcare systems can't. Jay Kopelman: And so they have a perfect opportunity to show that they truly care for their veterans, which don't, I'm not saying they don't, but this would be an [00:13:00] opportunity to show that carrot at a whole different level. Uh, it would allow them to innovate and be a leader in something as, uh, as our friend Jim Hancock will say, you know. Jay Kopelman: When he went to the Naval Academy, they had the world's best shipbuilding program. Why doesn't the VA have the world's best care program for things like TBI and PTSD, which affects, you know, 40 something percent of all veterans, right? So, so there's, there's an opportunity here for the VA to lead from the front. Jay Kopelman: Um, the, these medicines provide, you know, reasonably lasting care where it's kind of a one and done. Whereas with the current systems, the, you know, and, and [00:14:00] again, not to denigrate the VA in any way, they're doing the best job they can with the tools in their toolbox, right? But maybe it's time for a trip to Home Depot. Jay Kopelman: Let's get some new tools. And have some new ways of fixing what's broken, which is really the way of doing things. It's not, veterans aren't broken, we are who we are. Um, but it's a, it's a way to fix what isn't working. So I, I think that, you know, given there's tremendous veteran homelessness still, you know, addiction issues, all these things that do translate to the population at large are things that can be worked on in this one system, the va that can then be shown to have efficacy, have good data, have [00:15:00] good outcomes, and, and take it to the population at large. Joe Moore: Mm-hmm. Brilliant. Thanks for that. And so there was another thing I wanted to pivot to, which is some of the recent press. So we've, um, seen a little bit of press around some, um, in one instance, some bad behavior in Mexico that a FI put out Americans thrive again, put out. And then another case there was a, a recent fatality. Joe Moore: And I think, um, both are tragic. Like we shouldn't be having to deal with this at this point. Um, but there's a lot of things that got us here. Um, it's not necessarily the operator's fault entirely, um, or even at all, honestly, like some medical interventions just carry a lot of risk. Like think, think about like, uh, how risky bypass surgery was in the nineties, right? Joe Moore: Like people were dying a lot from medical interventions and um, you know, this is a major intervention, uh, ibogaine [00:16:00] and also a lot of promise. To help people quite a bit. Um, but as of right now, there's, there's risk. And part of that risk, in my opinion, comes from the inability of organizations to necessarily collaborate. Joe Moore: Like there's no kind of convening body, sitting in the middle, allowing, um, for, and facilitating really good data sharing and learnings. Um, and I don't, I don't necessarily see an organization stepping up and being the, um, the convener for that kind of work. I've heard rumors that something's gonna happen there, and I'm, I'm hopeful I'll always wanna share my opinion on that. Joe Moore: But yeah. I don't know. Jay, from your perspective, is there anything you want to kind of speak to about, uh, these two recent incidents that Americans for Iboga kind of publicized recently? Jay Kopelman: Yeah, so I, I'll echo your sentiment, of course, that these are tragic incidents. Um, and I, [00:17:00] I think that at least in the case of the death at Ambio, AMBIO has done a very good job of talking about it, right? Jay Kopelman: They've been very honest with the information that they have. And like you said, there are risks inherent to these medicines, and it's like anything else in medicine, there are going to be risks. You know, when I went through, uh, when I, when I went through chemo, you know, there were, there are risks. You know, you don't feel well, you get sick. Jay Kopelman: Um, and, and it. There are processes in place to counter that when it happens. And there are processes and, and procedures and safety protocols in place when caring for somebody going through an ibogaine [00:18:00] journey. Uh, when I did it, we had EKG echocardiogram. You're on a heart monitor the entire time they push magnesium via iv. Jay Kopelman: You have to provide a urinalysis sample to make sure that there is nothing in your system that is going to potentially harm you. During the ibogaine, they have, uh, a cardiologist who is monitoring the heart monitors throughout the ibogaine experience. So the, the safety protocols are there. I think it's, I think it's just a matter of. Jay Kopelman: Standardizing them across all, all providers, right? Like, that would be a good thing if people would talk to one another. Um, as, as in any system, right? You've gotta have [00:19:00] some collaboration. You've gotta have standardization, you know, so, you know, they're not called standard operating procedures for nothing. Jay Kopelman: That means that in a, you know, in a given environment, everybody does things the same way. It's true in Navy and Marine Corps, air Force, army Aviation, they have standard operating procedures for every single aircraft. So if you fly, let's say the F 35 now, right? Because it's flown by the Navy, the Marine Corps, and the Air Force. Jay Kopelman: The, the emergency procedures in that airplane are standardized across all three services, so you should have the same, or, you know, with within a couple of different words, the same procedures and processes [00:20:00] across all the providers, right? Like maybe in one document you're gonna change, happy to glad and small dog to puppy, but it's still pretty much the, the same thing. Jay Kopelman: And as a service that provides scholarships to people to go access these medicines and go to these retreats, you know, my criteria is that the, this provider has to be safe. Number one, safety's paramount. It's always gotta be very safe. It should, it has to be effective. And you know, once you have those two things in place, then I have a comfort level saying, okay, yeah, we'll work with this provider. Jay Kopelman: But until those standardized processes are in place, you'll probably see these one-off things. I mean, some providers have been doing this longer than others and have [00:21:00] really figured out, you know, they've, they've cracked the code and, you know, sharing that across the spectrum would be good. Um, but just when these things happen, having a clearing house, right, where everybody can come together and talk about it, you know, like once the facts are known because. Jay Kopelman: To my knowledge, we still don't know all the facts. Like as, you know, as horrible as this is, you still have to talk about like an, has an autopsy been performed? What was found in the patient's system? You know, there, there are things there that we don't know. So we need to, we need to know that before we can start saying, okay, well this is how we can fix that, because we just don't know. Jay Kopelman: And, you know, to their credit, you know, Amio has always been safe to, to the, to the best of my knowledge. You know, I, [00:22:00] I haven't been to Ambio myself, but people that I have worked with have been there. They have observed, they have seen the process. They believe it's safe, and I trust their opinion because they've seen it elsewhere as well. Jay Kopelman: So yeah, having, having that one place where we can all come together when this happens, it, it's almost like it should be mandatory. In the military when there's a training accident, we, you know, we would have to have what's called a safety standout. And you don't do that again for a little while until you figure out, okay, how are we going to mitigate that happening again? Jay Kopelman: Believe me, you can go overboard and we don't want to do that. Like, we don't wanna just stop all care, but maybe stop detox for a week and then come back to it. [00:23:00] Joe Moore: Yeah. A dream would be, let's get like the, I don't know, 10, 20 most popular, uh, or well-known operators together somewhere and just do like a three day debrief. Joe Moore: Hey, everybody, like, here's what we see. Let's work on this together. You know how normal medicine works. And this is, it's hard because this is not necessarily, um, something people feel safe about in America talking about 'cause it's illicit here. Um, I don't understand necessarily how the operations, uh, relate to each other in Mexico, but I think that's something to like the public should dig into. Joe Moore: Like, what, what is this? And I, I'll start digging into that. Um, I, I asked a question recently of somebody like, is there some sort of like back channel signal everybody's using and there's no clear Yes. You know? Um, I think it would be good. That's just a [00:24:00] start, you know, that's like, okay, we can actually kind of say hi and watch out for this to each other. Jay Kopelman: It's not like we don't all know one another, right? Joe Moore: Yes. Jay Kopelman: Like at least three operators we're represented. At the Aspen Ibogaine meeting. So like that could be, and I think there was a panel kind of loosely related to this during Aspen Ibogaine meeting, but Joe Moore: mm-hmm. Jay Kopelman: It, you know, have a breakout where the operators can go sit down and kind of compare notes. Joe Moore: Right. Yeah. Melissa, do you have any, uh, comments on this thread here? And I, I put you on mute if you didn't see that. Um, Melissa Lavasani: all right, I'm off mute. Um, yeah, I think that Jay's hits the nail on the head with the collaboration thing. Um, I think that it's just a [00:25:00] problem across the entire ecosystem, and I think that's just a product of us being relatively new and upcoming field. Melissa Lavasani: Um, uh, it's a product of, you know. Our fundraising community is really small, so organizations feel like they are competing for the same dollars, even though their, their goals are all the same, they have different functions. Um, I think with time, I mean, let's be honest, like if we don't start collaborating and, and the federal government's moving forward, the federal government's gonna coordinate for us. Melissa Lavasani: And not, that might not necessarily be a bad thing, but, you know, we understand this issue to a whole other level that the federal government doesn't, and they're not required to understand it deeply. They just need to know how to really move forward with it the proper way. Um, but I think that it. It's really essential [00:26:00] that we all have this come together moment here so we can avoid things. Melissa Lavasani: Uh, I mean, no one's gonna die from bad advocacy. So like I've, I have a bit of an easier job. Um, but it can a, a absolutely stall efforts, um, to move things forward in Washington DC when, um, one group is saying one thing, another group is saying another thing, like, we're not quite at a point yet where we can have multiple lines of conversation and multiple things moving forward. Melissa Lavasani: Um, you know, for PMC, it's like, just let's get the first thing across the finish line. And we think that is, um, veteran healthcare. And, um, I know there's plenty of other groups out there that, that want the same thing. So, you know, I always, the reason why I put on the Federal Summit last year was I kind of hit my breaking point with a lack of collaboration and I wanted to just bring everyone in the same room and say like, all right, here are the things that we need to talk about. Melissa Lavasani: And I think the goal for this year is, um. To bring people in the same room and say, we talked about [00:27:00] we scratched the surface last year and this is where we need to really put our efforts into. And this is where the opportunities are. Um, I think that is going to, that's going to show the federal government if we can organize ourselves, that they need to take this issue really seriously. Melissa Lavasani: Um, I don't think we've done a great job at that thus far, but I think there's still plenty of time for us to get it together. Um, and I'm hoping with these two, uh, VA bills that are in the house right now and Senate is, is putting together their version of these two bills, um, so that they can move in tandem with each other. Melissa Lavasani: I think that, you know, there's an opportunity here for. Us to show the federal government as an ecosystem, Hey, we, we are so much further ahead and you know, this is what we've organized and here's how we can help you, um, that would make them buy into this issue a bit more and potentially move things forward faster. Melissa Lavasani: Uh, at this point in time, it's, I think that, [00:28:00] you know, psychedelics aren't necessarily the taboo thing that they, they used to be, but there's certainly places that need attention. Um, there's certainly conversations that need to be had, and like I said, like PMC is just one organization that can do this. Um, we can certainly organize and drive forward collaboration, but I, like we alone, cannot cover all this ground and we need the subject matter experts to collaborate with us so we can, you know, once we get in the door, we wanna bring the experts in to talk to these officials about it. Melissa Lavasani: So I. I, I really want listeners to really think about us as a convener of sorts when it comes to federal policy. Um, and you know, I think when, like for example, in the early eighties, a lot of people have made comparisons to the issue of psychedelics to the issue of AIDS research and how you have in a subject matter that's like extremely taboo and a patient population that the government [00:29:00] quite honestly didn't really care about in the early eighties. Melissa Lavasani: But what they did as an ecosystem is really organized themselves, get very clear on what they wanted the federal government to do. And within a matter of a couple years, uh, AIDS research funding was a thing that was happening. And what that, what that did was that ripple effect turned that into basically finding new therapies for something that we thought was a death, death sentence before. Melissa Lavasani: So I think. We just need to look at things in the past that have been really successful, um, and, and try to take the lessons from all of these issues and, and move forward with psychedelics. Joe Moore: Love that. And yes, we always need to be figuring out efficient approaches and where it has been successful in the past is often, um, an opportunity to mimic and, and potentially improve on that. Melissa Lavasani: Yeah. Jay Kopelman: One, one thing I think it's important to add to this part of the conversation is that, [00:30:00] you know, Melissa pointed out there are a number of organizations that are essentially doing the same thing. Jay Kopelman: Um, you know, I like to think we do things a little bit differently at Mission within Foundation in that we don't target any one specific type of service member. We, we work with all veterans. We work with first responders, but. What that leads to is that there are, as far as I've seen, nothing but good intentioned people in this space. Jay Kopelman: You know, people who really care about their patient population, they care about healing, they are trying to do a good job, and more importantly, they're trying to do good. Right? It, it, I think they all see the benefit down the road that this has, [00:31:00] pardon me, not just for veterans, but for society as a whole. Jay Kopelman: And, and ultimately that's where I would like to see this go. You know, I, I would love to see the VA take this. Take up this mantle and, and run with it and provide great data, great outcomes. You know, we are doing some data collection ourselves at Mission within foundation, albeit anecdotal based on surveys given before and after retreats. Jay Kopelman: But we're also working with, uh, Greg Fonzo down at UT Austin on a brain study he's doing that will have 40 patients in it when it's all said and done. And I think we have two more guys to put through that. Uh, and then we'll hit the 40. So there, there's a lot of good here that's being done by some really, really good people who've been doing this for a long time [00:32:00] and want to want nothing more than to, to see this. Jay Kopelman: Come to, come full circle so that we can take care of many, many, many people. Um, you know, like I say, I, I wanna work myself out of a job here. I, I just, I would love to see this happen and then I, you know, I don't have to send guys to Mexico to do this. They can go to their local VA and get the care that they need. Jay Kopelman: Um, but one thing that I don't think we've touched on yet, or regarding that is that the VA isn't designed for that. So it's gonna be a pretty big lift to get the right types of providers into the va with the knowledge, right, with the institutional knowledge of how this should be done, what is safe, what is effective, um, and then it, it's not just providing these medicines to [00:33:00] people and sending them home. Jay Kopelman: You don't just do that, you've gotta have the right therapists on the backend who can provide the integration coaching to the folks who are receiving these medicines. And I'm not just talking, I bga, even with MDMA and psilocybin, you should have a proper period of integration. It helps you to understand how this is going to affect you, what it, what the experience really meant, you know, because it's very difficult sometimes to just interpret it on your own. Jay Kopelman: And so what the experience was and what it meant to you. And, and so it will take some time to spin all that up. But once it's, once it's in place, you know, the sky's the limit. I think. Joe Moore: Kinda curious Jay, about what's, what's going on with Ibogaine at the federal level. Is there anything at VA right now? [00:34:00] Jay Kopelman: At the va? No, not with ibogaine. And, you know, uh, we, we send people specifically for IBOGAINE and five MEO, right? And, and so that, that doesn't preclude my interest in seeing this legislation passed, right? Jay Kopelman: Because it, it will start with something like MDMA or psilocybin, but ultimately it could grow to iboga, right? It the think about the cost savings at, at the va, even with psilocybin, right? Where you could potentially treat somebody with a very inexpensive dose of psilocybin or, or iboga one time, and then you, you don't have to treat them again. Jay Kopelman: Now, if I were, uh, you know, a VA therapist who's not trained in psychedelic trauma therapy. I might be worried [00:35:00] about job security, but it's like with anything, right? Like ultimately it will open pathways for new people to get that training or the existing people to get that training and, and stay on and do that work. Jay Kopelman: Um, which only adds another arrow to their quiver as far as I'm concerned, because this is coming and we're gonna need the people. It's just like ai, right? Like ai, yeah. Some people are gonna lose some jobs initially, and that's unfortunate. But productivity ultimately across all industries will increase and new jobs will be created as a result of that. Jay Kopelman: I mean, I was watching Squawk Box one morning. They were talking about the AI revolution and how there's gonna be a need for 500,000 electricians to. Build these systems that are going to work with the AI [00:36:00] supercomputers and, and so, Joe Moore: mm-hmm. Jay Kopelman: Where, where an opportunity may be lost. I think several more can be gained going forward. Melissa Lavasani: And just to add on what Jay just said there, there's nothing specific going on with Ibogaine at, at the va, but I think this administration is, is taking a real look at addiction in particular. Uh, they just launched, uh, a new initiative, uh, that's really centered on addiction treatments called the Great American Recovery. Melissa Lavasani: And, um, they're dedicating a hundred million dollars towards treating addiction as like a chronic treatable disease and not necessarily a law enforcement issue. So, um, in that initiative there will be federal grant programs for prevention and treatment and recovery. And, um, while this isn't just for psychedelic medicines, uh, I think it's a really great opportunity for the discussion of psychedelics to get elevated to the White House. Melissa Lavasani: Um, [00:37:00] there's also, previous to this announcement last week from the White House, there's been a hundred million dollars that was dedicated at, um, at ARPA h, which is. The advanced research projects, uh, agency for healthcare, um, and that is kind of an agency that's really focused on forward looking, um, treatments and technologies, uh, for, um, a, a whole slew of. Melissa Lavasani: Of issues, but this a hundred million dollars is dedicated to mental health and addiction. So there's a lot of opportunity there as well. So we, while I think, you know, some people are talking about, oh, we need a executive order on Iboga, it's like, well, you know, the, the president is thinking, um, about, you know, what issues can land with his, uh, voting block. Melissa Lavasani: And I think it's, I don't think we necessarily need a specific executive order on Iboga to call this a success. It's like, let's look at what, [00:38:00] um, what's just been announced from the White House. They're, they're all in on. Thinking creatively and finding, uh, new solutions for this. And this is kind of, this aligns with, um, HHS secretaries, uh, Robert F. Melissa Lavasani: Kennedy Junior's goals when he took on this, this role of Health Secretary. Um, addiction has been a discussion that, you know, he has personal, um, a personal tie to from his own experience. And, um, I think when this administration started, there was so much like fervor around the, the dialogue of like, everyone's talking about psychedelics. Melissa Lavasani: It was Secretary Kennedy, it was, uh, secretary Collins at the va. It was FDA Commissioner Marty Macari. And I think that there's like a lot of undue frustration within folks 'cause um, you don't necessarily snap your fingers and change happens in Washington dc This is not the city for that. And it's intentionally designed to move slow so that we can avoid really big mistakes. Melissa Lavasani: Um. [00:39:00] I think we're a year into this administration and these two announcements are, are pretty huge considering, um, you know, the, we, there are known people within domestic policy council that don't, aren't necessarily supportive of psychedelic medicine. So there's a really amazing progress here, and frustrating as it might be to, um, just be waiting for this administration to make some major move. Melissa Lavasani: I think they are making major moves like for Washington, DC These, these are major moves and we just gotta figure out how we can, um, take these initiatives and apply them to the issue of psychedelic medicines. Joe Moore: Thanks, Melissa. Um, yeah, it is, it is interesting like the amount of fervor there was at the beginning. You know, we had, uh. Kind of one of my old lawyers, Matt Zorn, jumped in with the administration. Right. And, um, you know, it was, uh, really cool to [00:40:00] see and hopeful how much energy was going on. It's been a little quiet, kind of feels like a black box a little bit, but I, you know, there was, Melissa Lavasani: that's on me. Melissa Lavasani: Maybe I, we need to be more out in public about like, what's actually happening, because I feel like, like day in and day out, it's just been, you gotta just mm-hmm. Like have that constant beat with the government. Mm-hmm. And, um, it's, it's, it's not the photo ops on the hill, it's the conversations that you have. Melissa Lavasani: It's the dinner parties you go to, it's the fundraisers you attend, you know? Mm-hmm. That's why I, I kind of have to like toot my own horn with PCs. Like, we need to be present here at, at not only on the Hill, not only at the White House, but kind of in the ecosystem of Washington DC itself. There's, it's, there are like power players here. Melissa Lavasani: There are people that are connected that can get things done, like. I mean, the other last week we had a big snow storm. I walked over to my friend's house, um, to have like a little fire sesh with them and our kids, and his next door neighbor came over. He was a member of Congress. I talked about the VA bills, like [00:41:00] we're reaching out to his office now, um, to get them, um, up to speed and hopefully get their co-sponsorship for, uh, the two VA bills. Melissa Lavasani: So, I mean, it, the little conversations you have here are just as important as the big ones with the photo ops. So, um, it, it's, it's really like, you know, building up that momentum and, and finding that time where you can really strike and make something happen. Joe Moore: Mm-hmm. Yeah. Jay, anything to add there? Jay Kopelman: Yeah, I was just gonna say that, you know, I, I, I think the fervor is still there, right? Jay Kopelman: But real life happens. Melissa Lavasani: Yes, Jay Kopelman: yes. And gets in the way, right? So, Melissa Lavasani: yeah, Jay Kopelman: I, I can't imagine how many issues. Secretary Kennedy has every day much less the president. Like there's so many things that they are dealing with on a daily basis, right? It, we, we just have to work to be the squeaky wheel in, in the right way, right. Jay Kopelman: [00:42:00] With the, with the right information at the right time. Like just inundating one of these organizations with noise, it's then it be with Informa, it just becomes noise, right? It it, it doesn't help. So when we have things to say that are meaningful and impactful, we do, and Melissa does an amazing job of that. Jay Kopelman: But, you know, it, it takes time. You know, it's, you know, we're not, this is, this is like turning an aircraft carrier, not a ski boat. Melissa Lavasani: Yeah, Joe Moore: yeah, absolutely. Um, and. It's, it's understandably frustrating, I think for the public and the psychedelic public in particular because we see all this hope, you know, we continue to get frustrated at politics. It's nothing new, right? Um, and we, we wanna see more people get well immediately. [00:43:00] And I, I kind of, Jay from the veteran perspective, I do love the kind of loud voices like, you're making me go to Mexico for this. Joe Moore: I did that and you're making me leave the country for the thing that's gonna fix me. Like, no way. And barely a recognition that this is a valid treatment. You know, like, you know, that is complicated given how medicine is structured here domestically. But it's also, let's face the facts, like the drug war kind of prevented us from being able to do this research in the first place. Joe Moore: You know? Thanks Nixon. And like, how do we actually kind of correct course and say like, we need to spend appropriately on science here so we can heal our own people, including veterans and everybody really. It's a, it's a dire situation out there. Jay Kopelman: Yeah. It, it really is. Um, you know, we were talking briefly about addicts, right? Jay Kopelman: And you know, it's not sexy. People think of addicts as people who are weak-minded, [00:44:00] right? They don't have any self-control. Um, but, but look at, look at the opioid crisis, right? That Brian Hubbard was fighting against in Kentucky for all those years. That that was something that was given to the patient by a doctor that they then became dependent on, and a lot of people died from that. Jay Kopelman: And, and so you, you know, it's, I I don't think it's fair to just put all addicts in a box. Just like it's not fair to put all veterans in a box. Just like it's not fair for doctors, put all their patients in a box. We're individuals. We, we have individual needs. Our, our health is very individual. Like, I, I don't think I should be put in the same box as every other 66-year-old that my doctor sees. Jay Kopelman: It's not fair. [00:45:00] You know, if you, if you took my high school classmates and put us all in a photo, we're all gonna have different needs, right? Like, some look like they're 76, not 66. Some look like they're 56. Not like they're, we, we do things differently. We live our lives differently. And the same is true of addicts. Jay Kopelman: They come to addiction from different places. Not everybody decides they want to just try heroin at a party, and all of a sudden they're addicted. It happens in, in different ways, you know, and the whole fentanyl thing has been so daggum nefarious, right? You know, pushing fentanyl into marijuana. Jay Kopelman: Somebody's smoking a joint and all of a sudden they're addicted to fentanyl or they die. Melissa Lavasani: I think we're having a, Jay Kopelman: it's, it's just not fair to, to say everybody in this pot is the same, or everybody in this one is the same. We have [00:46:00] to look at it differently. Joe Moore: Yeah. I like to zoom one level out and kind of talk about, um, just how hurt we are as a country, as a world really, but as a country specifically, and how many people are out of work for so many. Joe Moore: Difficult reasons and away from their families for so many kind of tragic reasons. And if we can get people back to their families and back to work, a lot of these things start to self-correct, but we have to like have those interventions where we can heal folks and, and get them back. Um, yeah. And you know, everything from trauma, uh, in childhood, you know, adulthood, combat, whatever it is. Joe Moore: Like these things can put people on the sidelines. And Jay, to your point, like you get knee surgery and all of a sudden you're, you know, two years later you're on the hunt for Fentanyl daily. You know, that's tough. It's really tough. Carl Hart does a good job talking about this kind of addiction pipeline and [00:47:00] a few others do as well. Joe Moore: But it's just, you know, kind of putting it in a moral failure bucket. It's not great. I was chatting with somebody about, um, veterans, it's like you come back and you're like, what's gonna make me feel okay right now? And it's not always alcohol. Um, like this is the first thing that made me feel okay, because there's not great treatments and there's, there's a lot of improvements in this kind of like bringing people back from the field that needs to happen. Joe Moore: In my opinion. I, it seems to be shared by a lot of people, but yeah, there's, it's, it's, IGA is gonna be great. It's gonna be really important. I really can't wait for it to be at scale appropriately, but there's a lot of other things we need to fix too, um, so that we can just, you know, not have so many people we need to, you know, spend so much money healing. Joe Moore: Mm-hmm. Jay Kopelman: Yeah. You ahead with that. We don't need the president to sign an executive order to automatically legalize Ibogaine. Right. But it would be nice if he would reschedule it so that [00:48:00] then then researchers could do this research on a larger scale. You know, we could, we could now get some real data that would show the efficacy. Jay Kopelman: And it could be done in a safe environment, you know? And, and so that would be, do Joe Moore: you have any kind of figures, like, like, I've been talking about this for a while, Jay. Like, does it drop the cost a lot of doing research when we deschedule things? Jay Kopelman: I, I would imagine so, because it'll drop the cost of accessing the medicines that are being researched. Jay Kopelman: Right? You, you would have buy-in from more organizations. You know, you might even have a pharma company that comes into this, you know, look at j and j with the ketamine, right? They have, they have a nasal spray version of ketamine that's doing very well. I mean, it's probably their, their biggest revenue [00:49:00] provider for them right now. Jay Kopelman: And, and so. You know, you, it would certainly help and I think, I think it would lower costs of research to have something rescheduled rather than being schedule one. You know it, people are afraid to take chances when you're talking about Schedule one Melissa Lavasani: labs or they just don't have the money to research things that are on Schedule one. Melissa Lavasani: 'cause there's so much in an incredible amount of red tape that you have to go through and, and your facility has to be a certain way and how you contain those, uh, medicines. Oh, researching has to be in a specific container and it's just very cumbersome to research schedule one drugs. So absolutely the cost would go down. Melissa Lavasani: Um, but Joe Moore: yeah, absolutely. Less safes. Melissa Lavasani: Yeah. Joe Moore: Yes. Less uh, Melissa Lavasani: right. Joe Moore: Locked. Yeah. Um, it'll be really interesting when that happens. I'm gonna hold out faith. That we can see some [00:50:00] movement here. Um, because yeah, like why make healing more expensive than it needs to be? I think like that's potentially a protectionist move. Joe Moore: Like, I'm not, I'm not here yet, but, um, look at AbbVie's, uh, acquisition of the Gilgamesh ip. Mm-hmm. Like that's a really interesting move. I think it was $1.2 billion. Mm-hmm. So they're gonna wanna protect that investment. Um, and it's likely going to be an approved medication. Like, I don't, I don't see a world in which it's not an approved medication. Joe Moore: Um, you know, I don't know a timeline, I would say Jay Kopelman: yeah. Joe Moore: Less than six years, just given how much cash they've got. But who knows, like, I haven't followed it too closely. So, and that's an I bga derivative to be clear, everybody, um mm-hmm. If you're not, um, in, in the loop on that, which is hopeful, you know? Joe Moore: Mm-hmm. But I don't know what the efficacy is gonna be with that compared to Ibogaine and then we have to talk about the kind of proprietary molecule stuff. Um, there's like a whole bunch of things that are gonna go on here, and this is one of the reasons why I'm excited about. Federal involvement [00:51:00] because we might actually be able to have some sort of centralized manufacturer, um, or at least the VA could license three or four generic manufacturers per for instance, and that way prices aren't gonna be, you know, eight grand a dose or whatever. Joe Moore: You know, it's, Jay Kopelman: well, I think it's a very exciting time in the space. You know, I, I think that there's the opportunity for innovation. There is the opportunity for collaboration. There's the opportunity for, you know, long-term healing at a very low cost. You know, that we, we have the highest healthcare cost per capita in the world right here in the us. Jay Kopelman: And, and yet we are not the number one health system in the world. So to me, that doesn't add up. So we need to figure out a way to start. Bringing costs down for a lot of people and [00:52:00] at the same time increasing, increasing outcomes. Joe Moore: Absolutely. Yeah. There's a lot of possible outcome improvements here and, and you know, everything from relapse rates, like we hear often about people leaving a clinic and they go and overdose when they get home. Tragically, too common. I think there's everything from, you know, I'm Jay, I'm involved in an organization called the Psychedelics and Pain Association. Joe Moore: We look at chronic pain very seriously, and IGA is something we are really interested in. And if. We could have better, you know, research, there better outcome measures there. Um, you know, perhaps we can have less people on opioids to begin with from chronic pain conditions. Um, Jay Kopelman: yeah, I, I might be due for another Ibogaine journey then, because I deal with chronic pain from Jiujitsu, but, Joe Moore: oh gosh, let's Jay Kopelman: talk Joe Moore: later. Jay Kopelman: That's self inflicted. Some people would say take a month off, but Melissa Lavasani: yeah, Jay Kopelman: I'm [00:53:00] not, I'm not that smart. Joe Moore: Yeah. Um, but you know, this, uh, yeah, this whole thing is gonna be really interesting to see how it plays out. I'm endlessly hopeful pull because I'm still here. Right. I, I've been at this for almost 10 years now, very publicly, and I think we are seeing a lot of movement. Joe Moore: It's not always what we actually wanna see, but it is movement nonetheless. You know, how many people are writing on this now than there were before? Right. You know, we, we have people in New York Times writing somewhat regularly about psychedelics and. Even international media is covering it. What do we have legalization in Australia somewhat recently for psilocybin and MDMA, Czech Republic. Joe Moore: I think Germany made some moves recently. Mm-hmm. Um, really interesting to see how this is gonna just keep shifting. Um Jay Kopelman: mm-hmm. Joe Moore: And I think there's no way that we're not gonna have prescription psychedelics in three years in the United States. It pro probably more like a [00:54:00] year and a half. I don't know. Do you, are you all taking odds? Melissa Lavasani: Yeah. I mean, I think Jay Kopelman: I, I gotta check Cal sheet, see what they're saying. Melissa Lavasani: I think it's safe to say, I mean, this could even come potentially the end of this year, I think, but definitely by the end of 2027, there's gonna be at least one psychedelic that's FDA approved. Joe Moore: Yeah. Yeah. Melissa Lavasani: If you're not counting Ketamine. Joe Moore: Right. Jay Kopelman: I, I mean, I mean it mm-hmm. It, it doesn't make sense that it. Shouldn't be or wouldn't be. Right. The, we've seen the benefits. Mm-hmm. We know what they are. It's at a very low cost, but you have to keep in mind that these things, they need to be done with the right set setting and container. Right. And, and gotta be able to provide that environment. Jay Kopelman: So, but I would, I would love, like I said, I'd love to work myself out of a job here and see this happen, not just for our veterans, [00:55:00] but for everybody. Joe Moore: Mm-hmm. Um, so Melissa, is there a way people can get involved or follow PMC or how can they support your work at PMC? Melissa Lavasani: Yeah, I mean, follow us in social media. Melissa Lavasani: Um, our two biggest platforms are LinkedIn and Instagram. Um, I'm bringing my newsletter back because I'm realizing, um, you know, there is a big gap in, in kind of like the knowledge of Washington DC just in general. What's happening here, and I think, you know, part of PC's value is that we're, we are plugged into conversations that are being had, um, here in the city. Melissa Lavasani: And, you know, we do get a little insight. Um, and I think that that would really quiet a lot of, you know, the, a lot of noise that, um, exists in the, our ecosystem. If, if people just had some clarity on like, what's actually happening or happening here and what are the opportunities and, [00:56:00] um, where do we need more reinforcement? Melissa Lavasani: Um, and, and also, you know, as we're putting together public education campaign, you know. My, like, if I could get everything I wanted like that, that campaign would be this like multi-stakeholder collaborative effort, right? Where we're covering all the ground that we need to cover. We're talking to the patient groups, we're talking to traditional mental health organizations, we're talking to the medical community, we're talking to the general population. Melissa Lavasani: I think that's like another area that we, we just seem to be, um, lacking some effort in. And, you know, ultimately the veteran story's always super compelling. It pulls on your heartstrings. These are our heroes, um, of our country. Like that, that is, that is meaningful. But a lot of the veteran population is small and we need the, like a, the just.[00:57:00] Melissa Lavasani: Basic American living in middle America, um, understanding what psychedelics are so that in, in, in presenting to them the stories that they can relate to, um, because that's how you activate the public and you activate the public and you get them to see what's happening in these clinical trials, what the data's been saying, what the opportunities are with psychedelics, and then they start calling their members of Congress and saying, Hey, there is this. Melissa Lavasani: Bill sitting in Congress and why haven't you signed onto it? And that political pressure, uh, when used the right way can be really powerful. So, um, I think, you know, now we're at this really amazing moment where we have a good amount of congressional offices that are familiar enough with psychedelics that they're willing to move on it. Melissa Lavasani: Um, there's another larger group, uh, that is familiar with psychedelics and will assist and co-sponsor legislation, but there's still so many offices that we haven't been able to get to just 'cause like we don't have all the time in the world and all the manpower in the world to [00:58:00] do it. But, you know, that is one avenue is like the advocates can speak to the, the lawmakers, the experts speak to the lawmakers, and we not, we want the public engaged in this, you know, ultimately, like that's. Melissa Lavasani: Like the best form of harm reduction is having an informed public. So we are not, they're not seeing these media headlines of like, oh, this miracle cure that, um, saved my family. It's like, yes, that can happen psychedelics. I mean, person speaking personally, psychedelics did save my family. But what you miss out of that story is the incredible amount of work I put into myself and put into my mental health to this day to maintain, um, like myself, my, my own agency and like be the parent that I wanna be and be the spouse that I wanna be. Melissa Lavasani: So, um, we, we need to continue to share these stories and we need to continue to collaborate to get this message out because we're all, we're all in the same boat right now. We all want the same things. We want patients to have safe and [00:59:00] affordable access to psychedelic assisted care. Um, and, uh. We're just in the beginning here, so, um, sign up for our newsletter and we can sign up on our website and then follow us on social media. Melissa Lavasani: And, um, I anticipate more and more events, um, happening with PMC and hopefully we can scale up some of these events to be much more public facing, um, as this issue grows. So, um, I'm really excited about the future and I'm, I've been enjoying this partnership with Mission Within. Jay is such a professional and, and it really shows up when he needs to show up and, um, I look forward to more of that in the future. Joe Moore: Fantastic. And Jay, how can people follow along and support mission within Foundation? Jay Kopelman: Yeah, again, social media is gonna be a good way to do that. So we, we are also pretty heavily engaged on LinkedIn and on Instagram. Um, I do [01:00:00] share, uh, a bit of my own stuff as well. On social media. So we have social media pages for Mission within Foundation, and we have a LinkedIn page for mission within foundation. Jay Kopelman: I have my own profiles on both of those as well where people can follow along. Um, one of the other things you know that would probably help get more attention for this is if the general public was more aware of the numbers of professional athletes who are also now pursuing. I began specifically to help treat their traumatic brain injuries and the chronic traumatic encephalopathy that they've, uh, suffered as a result of their time in professional sports or even college sports. Jay Kopelman: And, you know. I people worship these athletes, and I [01:01:00] think that if more of them, like Robert Gall, were more outspoken about these treatments and the healing properties that they've provided them, that it would get even more attention. Um, I think though what Melissa said, you know, I don't wanna parrot anything she just said because she said it perfectly Right. Jay Kopelman: And I'd just be speaking to hear myself talk. Um, but being collaborative the way that we are with PMC and with Melissa is I think, the way to move the needle on this overall. And like she said, if she could get more groups involved in, in these discussions, it would, it would do wonders for us. Joe Moore: Well, thank you both so much for your hard work out there. I always appreciate it when people are showing up and doing this important, [01:02:00] sometimes boring and tedious, but nevertheless sometimes, sometimes exciting work. And um, so yeah, just thank you both and thank you both for showing up here to psychedelics today to join us and I hope we can continue to support you all in the future. Jay Kopelman: Thank you, Joe. Thank you, Joe. It's a pleasure being with you today and with Melissa, of course, always Melissa Lavasani: appreciate the time and space. Joe Moore: Thanks.

Enamory is a clinical practice, training institute, and nonprofit research organization focused on psychedelic assisted couples therapy. In this episode, clinical psychologists Chandra Kian and Kayla Knopp discuss their work integrating ketamine assisted psychotherapy with evidence based couples therapy models. Both guests trained as academic researchers at the University of California San Diego Veterans Affairs system, where they worked on large scale couples based PTSD trials. They later co founded Enamory to continue clinical work, train therapists, and conduct research focused specifically on relationships. Early Themes in Enamory and Couples Therapy The conversation begins with Dr. Kian and Dr. Knopp describing their background in couples based PTSD research and how that work shaped their clinical approach. They explain how existing couples therapy models often stall when partners cannot soften, access vulnerability, or understand each other's internal experience. Their early exposure to MDMA assisted therapy research highlighted how psychedelic states can temporarily reduce defensiveness and rigid narratives.

Fireside Project is a nonprofit that helps reduce the risks of psychedelic experiences through a free support line, coaching, education, and research. In this episode, Joshua White speaks with Psychedelics Today about why real-time support matters, what it takes to run a national hotline, and what Fireside learned after more than 30,000 conversations since launch. White shares how his background as a lawyer and his early hotline volunteering shaped Fireside's model. He also describes how festival harm reduction work, including lessons from Zendo-style support spaces, revealed a major gap: people often need help during an experience and after it ends. A major focus of the conversation is Lucy, Fireside's new voice-to-voice role-play simulator designed to improve psychedelic support skills through low-stakes practice. Early Themes With Fireside Project Joshua White introduces Fireside Project as an accessible safety net for people who are actively having psychedelic experiences or processing past ones. The support line launched on April 14, 2021, and relies on trained community volunteers who commit to a year of service. White explains why anonymity matters. He argues that a phone-based container can make it easier for callers to share vulnerable material without fear of judgment. He also frames service as a key part of integration for volunteers who want to give back or prepare for work in the psychedelic field. Core Insights From Fireside Project White describes the early difficulty of building Fireside from scratch, including legal design, insurance hurdles, training development, and fundraising. He credits seed support from David Bronner and Dr. Bronner's for helping Fireside prove that people would actually use a psychedelic support line. He also explains a key harm reduction point: calling emergency services during a non-medical psychedelic crisis can escalate risk. Fireside aims to help people regulate, re-orient, and stay safer when panic or fear shows up. Key concepts discussed include: The thin line between healing and traumatizing during high-intensity psychedelic states Why callers often need connection, not rescue How volunteer capacity and call volume shape how long conversations run The difference between support during an experience and longer-term coaching support Later Discussion and Takeaways With Fireside Project The conversation then turns to Lucy, a training tool White describes as a "flight simulator" for psychedelic practitioners. Lucy is not part of the live support line. Instead, it offers emotionally responsive role-play scenarios so trainees can practice staying grounded, tracking consent and boundaries, and responding to crisis cues. White also addresses recording and consent. He argues Fireside needs strong training feedback loops to improve safety and quality. He describes an anonymization approach designed to remove phone numbers, strip identifying details, and distort voices while preserving emotional tone. He also explains the post-call option for callers to delete their recorded conversation. Practical takeaways include: Simulation can help trainees stay regulated when intense material emerges Better training can reduce unnecessary diversion to emergency rooms Clear consent language and easy deletion workflows matter for trust Coaching can expand the continuum of psychedelic support beyond therapy

Manvir Singh joins Psychedelics Today to unpack what shamanism means and why the term matters now. Singh is an anthropologist and author of Shamanism: The Timeless Religion. He argues that shamanism is not limited to "remote" societies or the past. Instead, it reliably reappears because it helps humans manage uncertainty, illness, and the unknown. This episode is relevant for the psychedelic community because "shaman" often gets used loosely, or avoided entirely. Singh offers a clear framework for talking about shamanic practice without leaning on romantic myths, drug-centered assumptions, or rigid definitions that do not fit the cross-cultural record. Early Themes With Manvir Singh Early in the conversation, Manvir Singh explains why many classic definitions of shamanism break down when tested across cultures, including in Siberia where the term originated. He discusses how popular images of shamanism often center "soul flight" and fixed cosmologies. However, ethnography shows more variation, including possession, spirit proximity, and different ways practitioners describe altered experience. Singh also traces his path into anthropology, including long-term fieldwork with the Mentawai people off the west coast of Sumatra. There, he studied ritual specialists known as kerei and saw how central they are to healing, ceremony, and community life. Core Insights From Manvir Singh At the center of the episode, Manvir Singh offers a practical three-part definition. He emphasizes these shared traits as the "beating heart" of shamanism across many settings: A non-ordinary state (trance, ecstasy, or another altered mode) Engagement with unseen beings or realities (spirits, gods, ancestors, witches, ghosts) Services such as healing and divination Singh also explores taboo, restriction, and "otherness." He explains how shamans often cultivate social and psychological distance through initiations, deprivation, and visible markers. This helps communities experience the practitioner as different in kind, which increases credibility when the practitioner claims access to hidden forces. Later Discussion and Takeaways With Manvir Singh Later, Manvir Singh challenges common psychedelic narratives that treat psychedelics as the universal engine of religion or shamanism. He notes that many shamanic traditions do not rely on psychedelics at all, and that rhythmic music, drumming, dance, and social ritual can reliably produce trance states. He also clarifies a key mismatch in many contemporary "ayahuasca tourism" settings: in many traditional contexts, the specialist takes the substance to work on behalf of the patient, rather than turning the participant into the primary visionary practitioner. Practical takeaways for the psychedelic field include: Use definitions that fit cross-cultural evidence, not marketing language. Avoid assuming psychedelics are required for mystical experience. Notice how authority gets built through ritual, training, and otherness, not only through pharmacology.

Oli Genn-Bash (Brighton, UK) joins Joe Moore for a grounded conversation on the boom in functional mushrooms and why the category may be moving too quickly. As the founder of The Fungi Consultant, Oli works with consumers and brands to demystify functional mushrooms, with a focus on education, traceability, and realistic expectations. The conversation begins with a critique of wellness hype cycles. Oli explains how consumer desperation for help with anxiety, sleep, stress, and cognition can create an opening for a rapid wave of products that are not always grounded in careful sourcing or clear science. Using lion's mane as a case study, he contrasts popular cognitive claims with traditional use, arguing that the most useful path forward is to slow down, get more literate about mechanisms, and build a market that can sustain trust over time. Systems and Culture Oli describes how individual health is inseparable from community realities, including food access, class dynamics, and what wellness advice can sound like when it lands from a place of privilege. They discuss mycelial thinking as a practical framework for collaboration and resource-sharing, and why mushrooms tend to attract unusually generous "teach everyone" communities. They also explore the role of mushrooms in meaning-making and consciousness. Oli shares personal reflections on mushrooms as allies, the felt sense of "agency" in psychedelic experiences, and how those experiences can encourage behavioral change without forcing it. The conversation touches on alcohol culture in the UK and the possibility of non-alcoholic alternatives, including how functional mushrooms, microdosing, and other botanicals can support social confidence and energy for some people. Finally, they look ahead at fungal innovation beyond supplements: materials, soil health, regenerative approaches, bioremediation, and what the broader psychedelic movement might learn from fungi's patience, symbiosis, and balance. Key themes and takeaways 1) Why functional mushrooms feel "too fast" right now Oli argues that functional mushrooms have accelerated into a high-pressure wellness marketplace, with brands rushing products to market and consumers struggling to determine what is legitimate, traceable, and effective. He draws parallels to the UK CBD market, describing how oversaturation and inconsistent quality can erode trust and collapse prices. 2) Lion's mane, tradition, and mechanism Lion's mane is a useful example of how modern marketing can outrun nuance. Oli notes the gap between popular cognitive claims and traditional use, and points toward the gut-brain axis as one plausible bridge that requires more careful explanation and patience. 3) "Functional mushrooms" as a frame Oli prefers the term functional mushrooms over medicinal mushrooms, emphasizing systems-level support rather than a pharmaceutical model. He describes a view of health that starts on the cellular level and asks what supports function, resilience, and prevention. 4) Health is individual and collective Oli speaks candidly about barriers to wellness in the UK, including food poverty, access to education about cooking, and how class dynamics shape what health messaging sounds like. The broader point is structural: it is difficult to talk about supplements without considering the baseline conditions of daily life. 5) Mycelial thinking, futures work, and collaboration The conversation highlights "mycelial thinking" as more than a metaphor. Oli describes collaborations in futures-oriented communities and how fungal logic can inform collaboration, non-zero-sum outcomes, and resource sharing. 6) Mushroom culture and the instinct to share Joe notes how strikingly generous mushroom communities can be, especially around cultivation and identification. Oli agrees and adds a provocative angle: the possibility of "agency" in fungi and a sense that mushrooms invite humans into relationship, curiosity, and participation. 7) Alcohol culture and alternatives Oli reflects on nearly three years without alcohol and describes how functional mushrooms and other botanicals can support mood, energy, and social confidence for some people. They also discuss the realities of events culture, including the need for more inclusive non-alcoholic options and sensitivity to addiction histories. 8) The next 10 years of fungi They look at the expansion of fungi into materials, fashion, regenerative agriculture, soil health, and bioremediation. Oli emphasizes balance: fungal innovations are promising, but scaling and real-world constraints matter. 9) What the psychedelic movement can learn from fungi Oli critiques extractive, capital-driven dynamics in the psychedelic ecosystem and suggests fungi offer a different ethic: patience, humility, symbiosis, and realism about parasitism and imbalance.

In this live episode, Tricia Eastman joins to discuss Seeding Consciousness: Plant Medicine, Ancestral Wisdom, Psychedelic Initiation. She explains why many Indigenous initiatory systems begin with consultation and careful assessment of the person, often using divination and lineage-based diagnostic methods before anyone enters ceremony. Eastman contrasts that with modern frameworks that can move fast, rely on short trainings, or treat the medicine as a stand-alone intervention. Early Themes: Ritual, Preparation, and the Loss of Container Eastman describes her background, including ancestral roots in Mexico and her later work at Crossroads Ibogaine in Mexico, where she supported early ibogaine work with veterans. She frames her broader work as cultural bridging that seeks respect rather than fetishization, and assimilation into modern context rather than appropriation. Early discussion focuses on: Why initiatory traditions emphasize purification, preparation, and long timelines Why consultation matters before any high-intensity medicine work How decades of training shaped traditional initiation roles Why people can get harmed when they treat medicine as plug and play Core Insights: Alchemy, Shadow, and Doing the Work A major throughline is Eastman's critique of the belief that a psychedelic alone will erase trauma. She argues that shadow work remains part of the human condition, and that healing is less about a one-time fix and more about building capacity for relationship with the unconscious. Using alchemical language, she describes "nigredo" as fuel for the creative process, not as something to eliminate forever. Key insights include: Psychedelics are tools, not saviors You cannot outsource responsibility to a pill, a modality, or a facilitator Progress requires practice, discipline, and honest engagement with what arises "Healing" often shows up as obstacles encountered while trying to live and create Later Discussion and Takeaways: Iboga, Ethics, and Biocultural Stewardship Joe and Tricia move into a practical and ethically complex discussion about iboga supply chains, demand pressure, and the risks of amplifying interest without matching it with harm reduction and reciprocity. Eastman emphasizes medical screening, responsible messaging, and supporting Indigenous-led stewardship efforts. She also warns that harm can come from both under-trained modern facilitators and irresponsible people claiming traditional legitimacy. Concrete takeaways include: Treat iboga and ibogaine as high-responsibility work that demands safety protocols Avoid casual marketing that encourages risky self-administration Support Indigenous-led biocultural stewardship and reciprocity efforts Give lineage carriers a meaningful seat at the table in modern policy and clinical conversations Frequently Asked Questions Who is Tricia Eastman? Tricia Eastman is an author, facilitator, and founder of Ancestral Heart. Her work focuses on cultural bridging, initiation frameworks, and Indigenous-led stewardship. What is Seeding Consciousness about? The book examines plant medicine through initiatory traditions, emphasizing consultation, ritual, preparation, and integration rather than reductionistic models. Why does Tricia Eastman critique modern psychedelic models? She argues that many models remove the ritual container and long-form preparation that reduce risk and support deeper integration. Is iboga or ibogaine safe? With the right oversite, yes. Eastman stresses that safety depends on cardiac screening, careful protocols, and experienced oversight. She warns against informal or self-guided use. How can people support reciprocity and stewardship? She encourages donating or supporting Indigenous-led biocultural stewardship initiatives like Ancestral Heart and aligning public messaging with harm reduction. Closing Thoughts This episode makes a clear case that Tricia Eastman Seeding Consciousness is not only a book about psychedelics, but a critique of how the field is developing. Eastman argues that a successful future depends on mature containers, serious safety culture, and respectful partnership with lineage carriers, especially as interest in iboga and ibogaine accelerates. Links https://www.ancestralheart.com https://www.innertraditions.com/author/tricia-eastman Transcript Joe Moore Hello, everybody. Welcome back. Joe Moore with you again from Psychedelics Today, joined today by Tricia Eastman. Tricia, you just wrote a book called Seeding Consciousness. We're going to get into that a bunch today, but how are you today? [00:00:16.07] - Tricia Eastman I'm so good. It's exciting to be live. A lot of the podcasts I do are offline, and so it's like we're being witnessed and feels like just can feel the energy behind It's great. [00:00:31.11] - Joe Moore It's fun. It's a totally different energy than maybe this will come out in four months. This is real, and there's people all over the world watching in real-time. And we'll get some comments. So folks, if you're listening, please leave us some comments. And we'd love to chat a little bit later about those. [00:00:49.23] - Tricia Eastman I'm going to join the chat so that I can see... Wait, I just want to make sure I'm able to see the comments, too. Do I hit join the chat? [00:01:01.17] - Joe Moore Sometimes you can, sometimes you can't. I can throw comments on the screen so we can see them together. [00:01:07.02] - Tricia Eastman Cool. [00:01:08.03] - Joe Moore Yeah. So it'll be fun. Give us comments, people. Please, please, please, please. Yeah, you're all good. So Tricia, I want to chat about your book. Tell us high level about your book, and then we're going to start digging into you. [00:01:22.10] - Tricia Eastman So Seeding Consciousness is the title, and I know it's a long subtitled Plant Medicine, Ancestral Wisdom, Psychedelic Initiation. And I felt like it was absolutely necessary for the times that we are in right now. When I was in Gabon in 2018, in one of my many initiations, as as an initiative, the Fung lineage of Buiti, which I've been practicing in for 11 years now, I was given the instructions. I was given the integration homework to write this book. And I would say I don't see that as this divine thing, like you were given the assignment. I think I was given the assignment because it's hard as F to write a book. I mean, it really tests you on so many levels. I mean, even just thinking about putting yourself out there from a legal perspective, and then also, does it make any sense? Will anyone buy it? And on Honestly, it's not me. It's really what I was given to write, but it's based on my experience working with several thousand people over the years. And really, the essence of it is that in our society, we've taken this reductionistic approach in psychedelics, where we've really taken out the ritual. [00:02:54.05] - Tricia Eastman Even now with the FDA trial for MDMA for PTSD. There's even conversations with a lot of companies that are moving forward, psychedelics, through the FDA process, through that pathway, that are talking about taking the therapy out. And the reality is that in these ancient initiatic traditions, they were very long, drawn out experiences with massive purification rituals, massive amounts of different types of practice in order to prepare oneself to meet the medicine. Different plants were taken, like vomatifs and different types of purification rituals were performed. And then you would go into this profound initiatic experience because the people that were working with you that were in, we call it the Nema, who gives initiations, had decades of training and experience doing these types of initiatic experiences. So if you compare that to the modern day framework, we have people that go online and get a certificate and start serving people medicine or do it in a context where maybe there isn't even an established container or facilitator whatsoever. And so really, the idea is, how can we take the essence of this ancient wisdom wisdom, like when you look at initiation, the first step is consultation, which is really going deep into the history of the individual using different types of techniques that are Indigenous technologies, such as different forms of divination, such as cowrie shell readings. [00:04:52.18] - Tricia Eastman And there's different types of specific divinations that are done in different branches of And before one individual would even go into any initiation, you need to understand the person and where they're coming from. So it's really about that breakdown of all of that, and how can we integrate elements of that into a more modern framework. [00:05:24.23] - Joe Moore Brilliant. All right. Well, thank you for that. And let's chat about you. You've got a really interesting past, very dynamic, could even call it multicultural. And you've got a lot of experience that informed this book. So how did this stuff come forward for you? [00:05:50.02] - Tricia Eastman I mean, I've never been the person to seek anything. My family on my mother's side is from Mexico, from Oaxaca, Trique, Mixtec, and Michica. And we had a long lineage of practice going back to my, at least I know from my great, great grandmother, practicing a blend of mestiza, shamanism, combining centerea and Catholicism together. So it's more of like a syncratic mestiza, mestiza being mixed tradition. And so I found it really interesting because later on, when my grandfather came to the United States, he ended up joining the military. And in being in the US, he didn't really have a place. He's very devout spiritual man, but he didn't have a place to practice this blended spiritual tradition. So the mystical aspect of it went behind. And as I started reconnecting to my ancestral lineage, this came forth that I was really starting to understand the mystical aspect of my ancestry. And interestingly, at the same time, was asked to work at Crossroads Abigain in Mexico. And it's so interesting to see that Mexico has been this melting pot and has been the place where Abigain has chosen to plant its roots, so to say, and has treated thousands of veterans. [00:07:36.28] - Tricia Eastman I got to be part of the group of facilitators back over 10 years ago. We treated the first Navy Seals with Abogaine, and that's really spurred a major interest in Abogaine. Now it's in every headline. I also got 10 I got initiated into the Fung lineage of Buiti and have really studied the traditional knowledge. I created a nonprofit back in 2019 called Ancestral Heart, which is really focused on Indigenous-led stewardship. Really, the book helps as a culmination of the decade of real-world experience of combining My husband, Dr. Joseph Barzulia. He's a psychologist. He's also a pretty well-known published researcher in Abigain and 5MEO-DMT, but also deeply spiritual and deeply in respect for the Indigenous traditions that have carried these medicines before us. So we've really been walking this complex path of world bridging between how we establish these relationships and how we bring some of these ancient knowledge systems back into the forefront, but not in a way of fetishizing them, but in a way of deeply respecting them and what we can learn, but from our own assimilation and context versus appropriation. So really, I think the body of my work is around that cultural bridging. [00:09:31.07] - Joe Moore That's brilliant. And yeah, there's some really fun stuff I learned in the book so far that I want to get into later. But next question is, who is your intended audience here? Because this is an interesting book that could hit a few categories, but I'm curious to hear from you. [00:09:49.02] - Tricia Eastman It's so funny because when I wrote the book, I wasn't thinking, oh, what's my marketing plan? What's my pitch? Who's my intended audience? Because it was my homework, and I knew I needed to write the book, and maybe that was problematic in the sense that I had to go to publishers and have a proposal. And then I had to create a formula in hindsight. And I would say the demographic of the book mirrors the demographic of where people are in the psychedelic space, which It's skewed slightly more male, although very female. I think sex isn't necessarily important when we're thinking about the level of trauma and the level of spiritual healing and this huge deficit that we have in mental health, which is really around our disconnection from our true selves, from our heart, from our souls, from this idea of of what Indigenous knowledge systems call us the sacred. It's really more of an attitude of care and presence. I'm sure we could give it a different name so that individuals don't necessarily have any guard up because we have so much negative conditioning related to the American history of religion, which a lot of people have rejected, and some have gone back to. [00:11:37.06] - Tricia Eastman But I think we need to separate it outside of that. I would say the demographic is really this group of I would say anywhere from 30 to 55 male females that are really in this space where maybe they're doing some of the wellness stuff. They're starting to figure some things out, but it's just not getting them there. And when something happens in life, for example, COVID-19 would be a really great example. It knocks them off course, and they just don't have the tools to find that connection. And I would say it even spans across people that do a lot of spiritual practice and maybe are interested in what psychedelics can do in addition to those practices. Because when we look at my view on psychedelics, is they fit within a whole spectrum of wellness and self-care and any lineage of spiritual practice, whether it's yoga or Sufism or Daoist tradition. But they aren't necessarily the thing that... I think there's an over focus on the actual substance itself and putting it on a pedestal that I think is problematic in our society because it goes back to our religious context in the West is primarily exoteric, meaning that we're seeking something outside of ourselves to fulfill ourselves. [00:13:30.29] - Tricia Eastman And so I think that when we look at psychedelic medicines as this exoteric thing versus when we look at initiatory traditions are about inward and direct experience. And all of these spiritual practices and all of these modalities are really designed to pull you back into yourself, into having a direct relationship with yourself and direct experience. And I feel like the minute that you are able to forge that connection, which takes practice and takes discipline, then you don't need to necessarily look at all these other tools outside of yourself. It's like one of my favorite analogies is the staff on the Titanic were moving the furniture around as it was sinking, thinking that they might save the boat from sinking by moving the furniture around. I think that's how we've been with a lot of ego-driven modalities that aren't actually going into the full unconscious, which is where we need to go to have these direct experiences. Sorry for the long answer, but it is for everybody, and it's not just about psychedelics. Anyone can take something from this doing any spiritual work. But we talk a lot about the Indigenous philosophy and how that ties in alongside with spiritual practice and more of this inner way of connecting with oneself and doing the work. [00:15:21.22] - Tricia Eastman And I think also really not sugar coating it in the sense that the psychedelics aren't going to save us. They're not going to cure PTSD. Nothing you take will. It's you that does the work. And if you don't do the work, you're not going to have an 87 % success rate with opioid use disorder or whatever it is, 60 something % for treatment-resistant depression or whatever. It's like you have to do the work. And so we can't keep putting the power in the modality reality or the pill. [00:16:03.18] - Joe Moore Yeah, that makes sense. So you did an interesting thing here with this book, and it was really highlighting aspects of the alchemical process. And people don't necessarily have exposure. They hear the words alchemy. I get my shoulders go up when I hear alchemizing, like transmutation. But it's a thing. And how do we then start communicating this from Jung? I found out an interesting thing recently as an ongoing student. Carl Jung didn't necessarily have access to all that many manuscripts. There's so many alchemical manuscripts available now compared to what he had. And as a result, our understanding of alchemy has really evolved. Western alchemy, European alchemy, everybody. Perhaps Kmetic, too. I don't know. You could speak to that more. I don't keep track of what's revealed in Egypt. So it's really interesting to present that in a forward way? How has it been received so far? Or were you nervous to present this in this way? [00:17:25.10] - Tricia Eastman I mean, honestly, I think the most important The important thing is that in working with several thousand people over the years, people think that taking the psychedelic and the trauma is going to go away. It's always there. I mean, we We archetypically will have the shadow as long as we need the shadow to learn. And so even if we go into a journey and we transcend it, it's still there. So I would say that the The feedback has been really incredible. I mean, the people that are reading... I mean, I think because I'm weaving so many different, complex and deep concepts into one book, it might be a little harder to market. And I think the biggest bummer was that I was really trying to be respectful to my elders and not say anything in the title about Iboga and Abigain, even though I talk a lot about it in the book, and it's such a hot topic, it's really starting to take off. But the people that have read it really consider it. They really do the work. They do the practices in the book, and I'm just getting really profound feedback. So that's exciting to me because really, ultimately, alchemy... [00:18:55.22] - Tricia Eastman Yeah, you're right. It gets used Used a lot in marketing lingo and sitting in the depth of the tar pit. For me, when I was in Gabon, I remember times where I really had to look at things that were so dark in my family history that I didn't even realize were mine until later connected to my lineage. And the dark darkness connected to that and just feeling that and then knowing really the truth of our being is that we aren't those things. We're in this process of changing and being, and so nothing is is fixed, but there is a alchemical essence in just learning to be with it. And so not always can we just be with something. And and have it change, but there are many times that we can actually just be with those parts of ourselves and be accepting, where it's not like you have to have this intellectualized process It's just like, first you have the negrado, then you tune into the albeda, and you receive the insights, and you journal about it, and da, da, da, da, da Action, Mars aspect of it, the rubeda of the process. It's not like that at all. [00:20:44.15] - Tricia Eastman It's really that the wisdom that comes from it because you're essentially digesting black goo, which is metaphoric to the oil that we use to power all of society that's pulled deep out of the Earth, and it becomes gold. It becomes... And really, the way I like to think of it is like, in life, we are here to create, and we are not here to heal ourselves. So if you go to psychedelic medicine and you want to heal yourself, you're going to be in for... You're just going to be stuck and burnt out because that's not what we're here to do as human beings, and you'll never run out of things to heal. But if you You think of the negrado in alchemy as gasoline in your car. Every time you go back in, it's like refilling your gas tank. And whatever you go back in for as you're moving in the journey, it's almost like that bit of negrado is like a lump of coal that's burning in the gas tank. And that gets you to the next point to which there's another thing related to the creative process. So it's like As you're going in that process, you're going to hit these speed bumps and these obstacles in the way. [00:22:07.29] - Tricia Eastman And those obstacles in the way, that's the healing. So if you just get in the car in the human vehicle and you drive and you continue to pull out the shadow material and face it, you're going to keep having the steam, but not just focus on it, having that intention, having that connection to moving forward in life. And I hate to use those words because they sound so growth and expansion oriented, which life isn't always. It's evolutionary and deevolutionary. It's always in spirals. But ultimately, you're in a creative process would be the best way to orient it. So I think when we look at alchemy from that standpoint, then it's productive. Effective. Otherwise, it sounds like some brand of truffle salt or something. [00:23:09.12] - Joe Moore Yeah, I think it's a... If people want to dig in, amazing. It's just a way to describe processes, and it's super informative if you want to go there, but it's not necessary for folks to do the work. And I like how you framed it quite a bit. So let's see. There is one bit, Tricia, that my ears really went up on this one point about a story about Actually, let me do a tangent for you real quick, and then we're going to come back to this story. So are you familiar with the tribe, the Dogon, in Africa? Of course. Yeah. So they're a group that looks as though they were involved in Jewish and/or Egyptian traditions, and then ended up on the far side of like, what, Western Africa, far away, and had their own evolution away from Egypt and the Middle East. Fascinating. Fascinating stories, fascinating astronomy, and much more. I don't know too much about the religion. I love their masks. But this drew an analogy for me, as you were describing that the Buiti often have stories about having lineage to pre-dynastic Egyptian culture. I guess we'll call it that for now, the Kometic culture. [00:24:44.23] - Joe Moore I had not heard that before. Shame on me because I haven't really read any books about Buiti as a religion or organization, or anything to this point. But I found that really interesting to know that now, at least I'm aware of two groups claiming lineage to that ancient world of magic. Can you speak about that at all for us? Yeah. [00:25:09.24] - Tricia Eastman So first off, there really aren't any books talking about that. Some of the things I've learned from elders that I've spoke with and asked in different lineages in Masoco and in Fong Buiti, there's a few things. One, We lived in many different eras. Even if you go into ancient texts of different religions, creation stories, and biblical stories, they talk about these great floods that wiped out the planet. One of the things that Atum talks about, who is one of my Buiti fathers who passed a couple years ago, is Is the understanding that before we were in these different areas, you had Mu or Lumaria, you had Atlantis, and then you had our current timeline. And the way that consciousness was within those timelines was very different and the way the Earth was. You had a whole another continent called Atlantis that many people, even Plato, talks about a very specific location of. And what happened, I believe during that time period, Africa, at least the Saharan band of the desert was much more lush, and it was a cultural melting pot. So if you think about, for example, the Pygmy tribes, which are in Equatorial Africa, they are the ones that introduced Iboga to the Buiti. [00:27:08.08] - Tricia Eastman If you look at the history of ancient Egypt, what I'm told is that the Pygmies lived in Pharaonic Egypt, all the way up until Pharaonic Egypt. And there was a village. And if you look on the map in Egypt, you see a town called Bawiti, B-A-W-I-T-I. And that is the village where they lived. And I have an interesting hypothesis that the God Bess, if you look at what he's wearing, it's the exact same to a T as what the Pygmies wear. And the inspiration for which a lot of the Buiti, because they use the same symbology, because each part of the outfit, whether it's the Mocingi, which is like this animal skin, or the different feathers, they use the parrot feather as a symbology of speech and communication, all of these things are codes within the ceremony that were passed along. And so when you look at Bess, he's wearing almost the exact same outfit that the Pygmies are wearing and very similar to if you see pictures of the ceremonies of Misoko or Gonde Misoko, which I would say is one of the branches of several branches, but that are closer to the original way of Buiti of the jungle, so closer to the way the Pygmies practice. [00:28:59.16] - Tricia Eastman So If you look at Bess, just to back my hypothesis. So you look at Neteru. Neteru were the... They called them the gods of Egypt, and they were all giant. And many say the word nature actually means nature, but they really represented the divine qualities of nature. There's best. Look at him. And a lot of the historians said he's the God of Harmeline and children and happiness. I think he's more than the God of Harmeline, and I think that the Pygmies worked with many different plants and medicines, and really the ultimate aspect of it was freedom. If you think about liberation, like the libation, number one, that's drunkiness. Number two, liberation, you of freeing the joyous child from within, our true nature of who we are. You look at every temple in Egypt, and you look at these giant statues, and then you have this tiny little pygmy God, and there's no other gods that are like Bess. He's one of a kind. He's in his own category. You've You've got giant Hathor, you've got giant Thoth, you've got giant Osiris, Isis, and then you've got little tiny Bess. And so I think it backs this hypothesis. [00:30:48.27] - Tricia Eastman And my understanding from practitioners of Dogon tradition is that they also believe that their ancestors came from Egypt, and they definitely have a lot of similarity in the teachings that I've seen and been exposed to just from here. I mean, you can... There's some more modern groups, and who's to know, really, the validity of all of it. But there are some, even on YouTube, where you can see there's some more modern Dogon temples that are talking in English or English translation about the teachings, and they definitely line up with Kamehdi teachings. And so my hypothesis around that is that the Dogon are probably most likely pygmy descendants as, And the pygmy were basically run out of Bawiti because there was jealousy with the priest, because there was competition, because all of the offerings that were being made in the temple, there was a lot of power, connected to each of the temples. And there was competitiveness even amongst the different temples, lining the Nile and all of that, of who was getting the most offerings and who was getting the most visits. And so the Pygmies essentially were run out, and they migrated, some of them migrated south to Gabon and Equatorial Africa. [00:32:43.07] - Tricia Eastman And then If you think about the physical changes that happened during these planetary catastrophes, which we know that there had been more than one based on many historical books. So that whole area went through a desertification process, and the Equatorial rainforest remained. So it's highly likely even that Iboga, at one point, grew in that region as well. [00:33:18.00] - Joe Moore Have you ever seen evidence of artwork depicting Iboga there in Egypt? [00:33:24.17] - Tricia Eastman There are several different death temples. I'm trying to remember the name of the exact one that I went to, but on the columns, it looked like Iboga trees that were carved into the columns. And I think what's interesting about this... So Seychet is the divine scribe, the scribe of Egyptian wisdom. And she was basically, essentially the sidekick of Thoth. Thoth was who brought a lot of the ancient wisdom and people like Pythagoras and many of the ancient philosophers in Roman times went and studied in a lot of these Thoth lineage mystery schools. When you look at the the river of the Nile on the east side, east is the energy liturgy of initiation. It's always like if you go into a sweat lodge or if you see an ancient temple, usually the doorway is facing the east. West is where the sun sets, and so that's the death. And what's interesting about that is that it was on the west side in the death temple that you would see these aboga plants. But also Seixat was the one who was the main goddess depicted in the hieroglyphs, and there was other hieroglyphs. I mean, if you look at the hieroglyphs of Seixat, it looks like she has a cannabis leaf above her head, and a lot of people have hypothesized that, that it's cannabis. [00:35:16.03] - Tricia Eastman Of course, historians argue about that. And then she's also carrying a little vessel that looks like it has some mushrooms in it. And obviously, she has blue Lotus. Why would she be carrying around blue Lotus and mushrooms? I don't know. It sounds like some initiation. [00:35:36.19] - Joe Moore Yeah, I love that. Well, thanks so much for going there with me. This photo of Seixet. There's some good animations, but everybody just go look at the temple carvings picturing this goddess. It's stunning. And obviously, cannabis. I think it's hard to argue not. I've seen all these like, mushroom, quote, unquote, mushroom things everywhere. I'm like, Yeah, maybe. But this is like, Yes, that's clear. [00:36:06.27] - Tricia Eastman And if you look at what she's wearing, it's the exact same outfit as Bess, which is classic Basically, how the medicine woman or medicine man or what you would call shaman, the outfit that the healers would wear, the shamans or the oracles, those of the auracular arts, different forms of divination would wear. So if you really follow that and you see, Oh, what's Isis wearing? What's Hathor wearing? What's Thoth wearing? You can tell she's very specifically the healer. And it's interesting because they call her the divine scribe. So she's actually downloading, my guess is she's taking plants and downloading from the primordial. [00:37:02.00] - Joe Moore Well, okay. Thanks for bringing that up. That was a lovely part of your book, was your... There's a big initiation sequence, and then you got to go to this place where you could learn many things. Could you speak to that a little bit? And I hope that's an okay one to bring up. [00:37:22.22] - Tricia Eastman Are you talking about the time that I was in initiation and I went to the different ashrams, the different realms in, like Yogananda calls them astral schools that you go and you just download? It seemed like astral schools, but it seemed like it was a Bwiti initiation, where you were in silence for three days, and then Yeah, that one. So there were several different... I mean, I've done seven official initiations, and then I've had many other initiatic experiences. And I would say this one was incredible. Incredibly profound because what it showed me first was that all of the masters of the planet, it was showing me everyone from Kurt Cobain to Bob Marley to Einstein, all the people that had some special connection to an intelligence that was otherworldly, that they were essentially going to the same place, like they were visiting the same place, and they would go. And so the first thing I noticed was that I recognized a lot of people, and current, I'm not going I don't want to say names of people, but I recognize people that are alive today that I would say are profound thinkers that were going to these places as well. [00:38:57.05] - Tricia Eastman And interestingly, then I was taken into one of the classrooms, and in the classroom, this one, specifically, it showed me that you could download any knowledge instantaneously That essentially, having a connection to that school allowed you to download music or understand very complex ideas ideas of mathematics or physics or science that would take people like lifetimes to understand. So it was essentially showing this. And a lot of people might discredit that, that that might be a specific... That we as humans can do that. Well, I'm not saying that it's not that. I don't I don't want to say that it's anything. But what I can say is that I have definitely noticed the level of access that I have within my consciousness. And also what I notice with the masters of Bwiti, specifically in terms of the level of intelligence that they're accessing and that it's different. It's got a different quality to it. And so it was a really profound teaching. And one of the things, too, that I've learned is I use it to help me learn specific things. I don't know if I can give a positive testimonial, but I am learning French. [00:40:55.00] - Tricia Eastman And I noticed when I was in Aspen at the Abigain meeting, and I was with Mubeiboual, who speaks French, I started saying things French that I didn't even realize that I knew to say. I've had these weird moments where I'm actually using this tool And I'm also using it. I have a Gabonese harp. I don't know if you can see it up on the shelf over there. But I also went and asked for some help with downloading some assistance in the harp, then we'll see how that goes. [00:41:38.17] - Joe Moore Yeah. So that's brilliant. I'm thinking of other precedent for that outside of this context, and I can think of a handful. So I love that, like savant syndrome. And then there's a classic text called Ars Notoria that helps accelerate learning, allegedly. And then there's a number of other really interesting things that can help us gain these bits of wisdom and knowledge. And it does feel a little bit like the Dogon. The story I get is the receiving messages from the dog star, and therefore have all sorts of advanced information that they shouldn't we call it. Yeah. Yeah, which is fascinating. We have that worldwide. I think there's plenty of really interesting stuff here. So what I appreciated, Tricia, about how you're structuring your book, or you did structure your book, is that it it seems at the same time, a memoir, on another hand, workbook, like here are some exercises. On the other hand, like here's some things you might try in session. I really appreciated that. It was like people try to get really complicated when we talk about things like IFS. I'm like, well, you don't necessarily have to. You could. Or is this just a human thing, a human way to look at working with our parts? [00:43:20.15] - Joe Moore I don't know. Do you have any thoughts about the way you were approaching this parts work in your book versus how complicated some people make it feel? [00:43:30.00] - Tricia Eastman Yeah. I find that this is just my personal opinion, and no way to discredit Richard Schwartz's work. But parts work has existed in shamanism since forever. When we really look at even in ancient Egypt, Issus, she put Osiris act together. That was the metaphorical story of soul retrieval, which is really the spiritual journey of us reclaiming these pieces of ourselves that we've been disconnected from a society level or individually. And within the context of parts work, it's very organic and it feels other worldly. It's not like there's ever a force where I'm in the process with someone. And a lot of times I would even go into the process with people because they weren't accustomed to how to work with Iboga or game, and so they would be stuck. And then the minute I was like, you know, Iboga, in the tradition, it's really about... It's like the game Marco Polo. It's call and response. And so you're really an active participant, and you're supposed to engage with the spirits. And so the minute that things would show up, it'd be more about like, oh, what do you see? What's coming up here? Asking questions about it, being curious. [00:45:17.07] - Tricia Eastman If you could engage with it, sometimes there's processes where you can't really engage with things at all. So everything that I'm talking about is It was organically shown up as an active engagement process that it wasn't like we were going in. There have been some where you can guide a little bit, but you never push. It might be something like, go to your house, and it being completely unattached. And if they can't go there, then obviously the psyche doesn't want to go there, but it's really an exercise to help them to connect to their soul. And then in contrast, IFS is like, let's work on these different parts and identify these different parts of ourselves. But then let's give them fixed titles, and let's continually in a non-altered state of consciousness, not when we're meditating, not when we're actively in a state where we have the plasticity to change the pathway in the unconscious mind, but we're working in the egoic mind, and we're talking to these parts of ourselves. That could be helpful in the day-to-day struggles. Let's say you have someone who has a lot of rumination or a very active mind to have something to do with that. [00:46:57.01] - Tricia Eastman But that's not going to be the end-all, be-all solution to their problem. It's only moving the deck chairs around on the Titanic because you're still working in the framework where, I'm sorry, the Titanic is still sinking, and it may or may not be enough. It may or may not produce a reliable outcome that could be connected with some level of true relief and true connection within oneself. And so I think that people just... I feel like they almost get a little too... And maybe it's because we're so isolated and lonely, it's like, Oh, now I've got parts. I'm not by myself. I've got my fire I've got my firefighter, and I've got my guardian, and all these things. And I definitely think that IFS is a really great initiator into the idea of engaging with parts of ourselves and how to talk to them. But I don't think it's... And I think doing a session here and there, for some people, can be incredibly helpful, but to all of a sudden incorporate it in like a dogma is toxic. It's dangerous. And that's what we have to be really careful of. [00:48:23.25] - Joe Moore So thank you for that. There's a complicated discussion happening at the Aspen meeting. I think I was only sitting maybe 30 feet away from you. Sorry, I didn't say hi. But the folks from Blessings of the Forest were there, and I got a chance to chat with a number of them and learn more about nuclear protocols, biopiracy, literal piracy, and smuggling, and the works. I'm curious. This is a really complicated question, and I'm sorry for a complicated question this far in. But it's like, as we talk about this stuff publicly and give it increased profile, we are de facto giving more juice and energy to black markets to pirate. We're adding fuel to this engine that we don't necessarily want to see. Cameroon has nothing left, pretty much. From what I'm told, people from Cameroon are coming in, stealing it from Cabona, bringing it back, and then shipping it out. And there's It's like a whole worldwide market for this stuff. I witnessed it. This stuff. Yeah, right? This is real. So the people, the Buiti, and certain Gabanese farmers, are now being pirated. And international demand does not care necessarily about Nagoya compliance. United States didn't sign Nagoya protocol for this biopiracy protection, but we're not the only violator of these ethics, right? [00:50:00.22] - Joe Moore It's everywhere. So how do we balance thinking about talking about IBOCA publicly, given that there's no clean way to get this stuff in the United States that is probably not pirated materials? And as far as I know, there's only one, quote unquote, Nagoya compliant place. I've heard stories that I haven't shared publicly yet, that there's other groups that are compliant, too. But it's a really interesting conversation, and I'm curious of your perspectives there. [00:50:34.04] - Tricia Eastman I mean, this is a very long, drawn-out question, so forgive me if I give you a long, drawn-out answer. [00:50:41.01] - Joe Moore Go for it. [00:50:41.26] - Tricia Eastman It's all good. So in reality, I do believe... You know the first Ebo, Abogaine, that was done in the country was experiments on eight Black prisoners at a hospital under the MK program. [00:51:01.16] - Joe Moore Pre-lutz off, we were doing Abogaine tests on people. [00:51:06.00] - Tricia Eastman Yeah, so pre-Lutz off. I have a hypothesis, although a lot of people would already know me. [00:51:12.07] - Joe Moore No, I didn't know that. Thank you for sharing that with me. [00:51:14.13] - Tricia Eastman That's great. I'll send you some stuff on that. But the Aboga wanted to be here. The Abogaine wanted to be here. I think it's a complex question because on one side of the coin, you have the spirit of plants, which are wild and crazy sometimes. And then you have the initiatory traditions, which create a scaffolding to essentially put the lightning in a bottle, so to say, so that it's less damaging. [00:51:51.13] - Joe Moore It's almost like a temple structure around it. [00:51:53.16] - Tricia Eastman I like that. Yeah. Put a temple structure around it because it's like, yeah, you can work with new nuclear energy, but you have to wear gloves, you have to do all these different safety precautions. I would say that that's why these traditions go hand in hand with the medicine. So some people might say that the agenda of Iboga and even Abogaine might be a different agenda than the Buiti. And ultimately, whether we are Indigenous or not, the Earth belongs to everyone. It's capitalism and the patriarchy that created all these borders and all these separations between people. And in reality, we still have to acknowledge what the essence of Buiti is, which is really the cause and effect relationship that we have with everything that we do. And so some people might use the term karma. And that is if you're in Abogaine clinic and you're putting a bunch of videos out online, and that's spurring a trend on TikTok, which we already know is a big thing where people are selling illegal market, iBoga, is Is any of that your responsibility? Yes. And if I was to sit down with a kogi kagaba, which are the mamus from Colombia, or if I were to sit down with a who said, Hey, let's do a divination, and let's ask some deep questions about this. [00:53:54.01] - Tricia Eastman It would look at things on a bigger perspective than just like, Oh, this person is completely responsible for this. But when we're talking about a medicine that is so intense, and when I was younger, when I first met the medicine, I first was introduced in 2013 was when I first found out about Abigain and Iboga. And in 2014, I lived with someone who lived with a 14th generation Misoko, maybe it was 10th generation Misoco in Costa Rica. And then he decided to just start serving people medicine. And he left this person paralyzed, one person that he treated for the rest of his life. And Aubrey Marcus, it was his business partner for On It, and he's publicly talked about this, about the story behind this. If you go into his older podcasts and blog posts and stuff, he talks about the situation. And the reality is that this medicine requires a massive amount of responsibility. It has crazy interactions, such as grapefruit juice, for example, and all kinds of other things. And so it's not just the responsibility towards the buiti, it's also the responsibility of, does me talking about this without really talking about the safety and the risks, encourage other people. [00:55:49.10] - Tricia Eastman One of the big problems, back in the day, I went to my first guita conference, Global Abogaine Therapy Alliance in 2016. And And then, ISEARs was debating because there was all these people buying Abogaine online and self-detoxing and literally either dying or ending up in the hospital. And they're like, should we release protocols and just give people instructions on how to do this themselves? And I was like, no, absolutely not. We need to really look at the fact that this is an initiatory tradition, that it's been practiced for thousands of that the minimum level at which a person is administering in Gabon is 10 years of training. The way that we've made up for those mistakes, or sorry, not mistakes, lack of training is that we've used medical oversight. Most of the medical oversight that we've received has been a result of mistakes that were made in the space. The first patient that MAPS treated, they killed them because they gave them way over the amount of what milligrams per kilogram of Abigain that you should give somebody. Every single mistake that was made, which a lot of them related to loss of life, became the global Abogane Therapy Safety Guidelines. [00:57:28.19] - Tricia Eastman And so we've already learned from our mistakes here. And so I think it's really important that we understand that there's that aspect, which is really the blood on our hands of if we're not responsible, if we're encouraging people to do this, and we're talking about it in a casual way on Instagram. Like, yeah, microdosing. Well, did you know there was a guy prosecuted this last year, personal trainer, who killed someone And from microdosing in Colorado, the event happened in 2020, but he just got sentenced early 2025. These are examples that we need to look at as a collective that we need. So that's one side of it. And then the other side of it is the reciprocity piece. And the reciprocity piece related to that is, again, the cause and effect. Is A Abogaine clinic talking about doing Abogaine and doing video testimonials, spurring the efforts that are actively being made in Gabon to protect the cultural lineage and to protect the medicine. The reality is every Abogaine clinic is booked out for... I heard the next year, I don't know if that's fact or fiction, but someone told me for a year, because because of all the stuff with all the celebrities that are now talking about it. [00:59:05.20] - Tricia Eastman And then on top of that, you have all these policy, all these different advocacy groups that are talking about it. Essentially, it's not going to be seven... It's going to be, I would say, seven to 10 years before something gets through the FDA. We haven't even done a phase one safety trial for any of the Abigain that's being commercialized. And even if there's some magic that happens within the Trump administration in the next two years that changes the rules to fast track it, it's not going to cut it down probably more than a year. So then you're looking at maybe six years minimum. That whole time, all that strain is being put on Gabon. And so if you're not supporting Gabon, what's happening is it's losing a battle because the movement is gaining momentum, and Gabon cannot keep up with that momentum. It's a tiny country the size of Colorado. So my belief is that anyone who's benefiting from all the hype around Iboga and Abogayne or personally benefited with healing within themselves should be giving back, either to Ancestral Heart, to Blessings of the Forest, to any group that is doing authentic Indigenous-led biocultural stewardship work. [01:00:45.21] - Joe Moore Thanks for that. It's important that we get into some detail here. I wish we had more time to go further on it. [01:00:54.17] - Tricia Eastman I'll do a quick joke. I know. I have a lot. [01:00:57.17] - Joe Moore Yes. Now do Mike Tyson. Kidding. Yeah. So what did we maybe miss that you want to make sure people hear about your book, any biocultural stuff that you want to get out there? You can go for a few more minutes, too, if you have a few things you want to say. [01:01:20.03] - Tricia Eastman I mean, really, thank you so much for this opportunity. Thank you for caring and being so passionate about the context related to Buiti, which I think is so important. I would just say that I've been working with this medicine for... I've known about it for 13 years, and I've been working with it for 11 years, and this is my life. I've devoted my life to this work, me and my husband, both. And there isn't anything greater of a blessing that it has brought in our life, but it also is it's a very saturnian energy, so it brings chaos. It brings the deepest challenges and forces you to face things that you need to face. But also on the other side of the coin, everything that I've devoted and given back in service to this work has exponentially brought blessing in my life. So again, I see the issue with people doing these shortened processes, whether it's in an Abigain clinic where you just don't have the ritualistic sacred aspects of an initiatic context and really the rituals that really help integrate and ground the medicine. But you still have this opportunity to continue to receive the blessings. [01:03:09.23] - Tricia Eastman And I really feel in our current psychedelic movement, we essentially have a Bugatti. These medicines are the most finely-tuned sports car that can do every... Even more than that, more like a spaceship. We have this incredible tool, but we're driving it in first gear. We don't even really know how to operate it. It's like, well, I guess you could say flight of the Navigator, but that was a self-driving thing, and I guess, psychedelics are self-driving. But I feel that we are discounting ourselves so greatly by not looking into our past of how these medicines were used. I really think the biggest piece around that is consulting the genuine lineage carriers like Buiti elders, like Mubu Bwal, who's the head of Maganga Manan Zembe, And giving them a seat at the head of the table, really, because there's so much I know in my tradition, about what we do to bring cardiac safety. And why is it that people aren't dying as much in Gabon as they're dying in Abigan clinics. [01:04:37.28] - Joe Moore Shots fired. All right. I like it. Thank you. Thank you for everything you've done here today, I think harm reduction is incredibly important. Let's stop people dying out there. Let's do some harm reduction language. I actually was able to sweet talk my way into getting a really cool EKG recently, which I thought really great about. If you can speak clinician, you can go a long way sometimes. [01:05:11.20] - Tricia Eastman Yeah. Oh, no, go ahead. Sorry. [01:05:15.17] - Joe Moore No, that's all. That's all. So harm reduction is important. How do we keep people safe? How do we keep healing people? And thank you for all your hard work. [01:05:27.22] - Tricia Eastman Thank you. I really appreciate it. We're all figuring it out. No one's perfect. So I'm not trying to fire any shots at anybody. I'm just like, Guys, please listen. We need to get in right relationship with the medicine. And we need to include these stakeholders. And on the other side of the coin, I just want to add that there's a lot of irresponsible, claimed traditional practitioners that are running retreat centers in Mexico and Costa Rica and other places that are also causing a lot of harm, too. So the medical monitoring is definitely, if you're going to do anything, Because these people don't have the training, the worst thing you could do is not have someone going in blind that doesn't have training and not have had an EKG and all that stuff. But we've got a long way to go, and I'm excited to help support in a productive way, all coming together. And that's what me and Joseph have been devoted to. [01:06:45.02] - Joe Moore Brilliant. Tricia Eastman, thank you so much. Everybody should go check out your book Seeding Consciousness out now. The audiobook's lovely, too. Thank you so much for being here. And until next time. [01:07:00.14] - Tricia Eastman Thank you.

Logan Davidson joins the show to talk about the fast-moving world of Ibogaine in American and why state-based leadership is shaping the future of psychedelic reform. Davidson is the executive director of Texans for Greater Mental Health, the legislative director at VETS, and a key strategist behind Texas' landmark interest in ibogaine research. He also advises for Americans for Ibogaine. His work sits at the intersection of science, policy, and lived experience, and this conversation offers a clear look into what is happening right now. Early Themes: The Rise of State Advocacy Davidson explains how he entered politics at nineteen and how his professional path merged with psychedelic policy work during the 2021 Texas legislative session. Through that first bill, he saw how science, bipartisan cooperation, and strong local leadership could advance major reform. Early discussion focuses on: How Texas became the first state to pass a major psychedelic research bill Why ibogaine became a central focus How the special operations community helped shift political momentum The personal mental health stories that shaped Davidson's commitment This section also highlights how Americans for Ibogaine entered the conversation through veterans, researchers, and state lawmakers who felt the urgency of the opioid crisis and traumatic brain injury. Core Insights: Ibogaine, Risk, and the New Research Model In the middle portion of the episode, Davidson breaks down the strategy, challenges, and promise behind ibogaine research and state-based policy innovation. Key insights include: The unique bipartisan environment in Texas Why stories from veterans and spouses moved lawmakers The importance of medical screening for cardiac risk Why research is essential for safety How states can use funding, revenue sharing, and public health goals to shape future access What policymakers are watching right now Effectiveness for opioid use disorder Data from traumatic brain injury studies Cardiac safety protocols The risk of untreated depression and addiction The national security implications of forcing service members to seek illegal care Davidson also explains why removing the psychedelic experience from the molecule remains controversial and why many researchers believe the full experience matters. Later Discussion and Takeaways: The Road Ahead for American Ibogaine In the final part of the conversation, Davidson speaks about the future of American Ibogaine and the broader psychedelic field. He outlines why local leadership matters, why federal funding, like what Psychedelic Medicine Coalition is supporting, could be the next major tipping point, and how big pharmaceutical companies may eventually enter the space through acquisitions or proprietary molecule development. Concrete takeaways include: States should expect clear benefits: lower-cost treatments, shared revenue, and local control Community leaders, not outsiders, often drive legislative wins The need for long-term safety data remains National security concerns highlight why regulated access must expand Federal research money could radically transform the pace and scale of studies He also encourages listeners to join or build local organizations, since nearly every major win comes from people who live in the state pushing from the ground up. Frequently Asked Questions Is Ibogaine safe? Ibogaine has cardiac risks that require medical screening and careful monitoring. Researchers stress that safety improves with proper protocols and more clinical data. Why is Ibogaine important for veterans? Many special operations veterans report major benefits for traumatic brain injury, PTSD, and addiction. Their stories have driven political momentum. How are states involved in Ibogaine research? States like Texas are funding clinical trials, drug development, shaping policy, and exploring revenue and access models to support long-term public health benefits. Will Ibogaine become federally supported in America? New federal interest, including major grants and bipartisan discussions, suggests that broader support may be coming in the next few years. Closing Thoughts This episode shows why the work of Logan Davidson sits at the center of today's psychedelic resurgence. It highlights a complex but hopeful moment where science, policy, and lived experience are beginning to align. As American Ibogaine research expands, state leaders, clinicians, veterans, and advocates all have a role in shaping a safer and more effective future for these treatments.

In this episode, Michael Sapiro joins Kyle Buller to explore truth, healing, and psychedelic-assisted psychotherapy through the lens of his new book, Truth Medicine. A clinical psychologist, ordained Zen Buddhist monk, retreat leader, and fellow at the Institute of Noetic Sciences, he blends Buddhist psychology, trauma work, and consciousness studies. The discussion focuses on how people discover and live their truth, and why that truth becomes the core medicine in healing. Early in the Podcast with Michael Sapiro Michael describes how years of clinical work and retreat facilitation shaped his understanding of healing. Real transformation happens when people speak truths they have never allowed themselves to say out loud. These truths often relate to childhood experiences, identity, and how people learned to stay safe. Key early themes include insight into: • Truth as a physical and emotional "ring" in the body • Personas formed in childhood to avoid rejection • Depression and anxiety caused by living from those personas The conversation explores how frightening it can be to challenge old roles and family narratives, yet how necessary it is for authentic healing. Core Insights from Michael Sapiro Michael outlines his model of preparation, psychedelic sessions, and integration, especially in ketamine-assisted psychotherapy. Preparation often includes discovering what he calls the "heart of the hurt" and building trust for the internal process. Core insights include: • Tracing patterns back to their origins in early experience • Using guided imagery, breathwork, and somatic awareness to practice surrender • Understanding healing as applying love to wounded parts • Understanding growth as becoming who you would be without old limits Additional points: • Medicine sessions create real practice in letting go • Defenses should be engaged with, not fought • Sensations in the body offer essential guidance Later Discussion and Takeaways with Michael Sapiro Michael compares one-on-one psychotherapy with retreat work. In group settings he holds space and supports safety, while in individual sessions he uses a blend of silence and active therapeutic guidance. He also shares personal truth work, including embracing his own "bigness," understanding ethics as part of spirituality, and learning to endure anxiety without falling into shame. Listeners gain practical guidance for nurturing wounded parts, developing the ability to endure challenging states, and allowing their strengths to emerge. Frequently Asked Questions Who is Michael Sapiro? Michael Sapiro is a clinical psychologist, ordained Zen Buddhist monk, psychedelic psychotherapist, retreat leader, and research fellow at the Institute of Noetic Sciences. What is the main idea of Truth Medicine by Michael Sapiro? Truth Medicine teaches that discovering and living one's personal truth is the core of healing, with psychedelics serving as a tool that helps reveal and embody that truth. How does Michael Sapiro use ketamine in therapy? He uses ketamine within a structured model involving preparation, supportive dosing sessions, and integration focused on compassion, endurance, and meaningful change. Does he only work in group settings? No. He leads retreats, but much of his work is individual psychedelic psychotherapy focused on trauma, personal truth, and growth. What can clinicians learn from his approach? Clinicians can learn how to balance guided intervention with open space, work directly with defenses, and support healing as both love and action. Closing Thoughts This conversation with Michael Sapiro offers a grounded, practical view of how truth, compassion, and psychedelic-assisted psychotherapy can support real change in the current psychedelic resurgence. By blending body awareness, ethical clarity, and personal growth, this episode provides useful guidance for therapists, guides, and seekers who want to bring more truth medicine into their lives and communities. https://www.michaelsapiro.com

Holotropic Breathwork sits at the center of this wide ranging conversation between Psychedelics Today co-founders Joe Moore and Kyle Buller. Drawing from decades of personal practice and assorted types of breathwork facilitation, they explore how breathwork methods from the Grof lineage including Dreamshadow Breathwork can prepare people for psychedelic work, support difficult journeys, and deepen integration over time. Kyle shares how his near death experience, somatic training, and breathwork facilitation shaped this new course on breathwork foundations, while Joe reflects on how reading Dr Stanislav Grof and years of experience in Holotropic Breathwork changed how he approaches psychedelics. Early Themes: Roots, Lineages, and First Encounters The episode opens with how each of them first found breathwork. Joe discovered Grof's writing in college, then traveled to Dreamshadow workshops long before he worked seriously with psychedelics. Kyle came to Holotropic style breathwork while studying transpersonal psychology at Burlington College, arriving as a skeptic who assumed people were exaggerating until his first session opened into a full psychedelic level process. They trace the roots of breathwork in modern psychology back to Wilhelm Reich, character armor, and early somatic approaches, then follow that thread into Grof's work and later branches. Joe and Kyle map out the different schools that emerged, including Grof Transpersonal Training, Grof Legacy Training, and Dreamshadow, and explain why the term "breathwork" has become a huge umbrella that covers everything from Wim Hof to short online sessions that are not actually Holotropic Breathwork. Core Insights: Breath, Nervous System, and Working the Edges In the middle of the episode they move into what this new foundations course actually covers and why it matters now. Rather than promising quick fixes, Kyle frames breath as a flexible tool for: Preparation before psychedelic sessions Navigation during intense or destabilizing moments Integration and nervous system support afterward They discuss window of tolerance, fight flight freeze responses, and how fast, deep breathing can open powerful experiences but also risk overwhelm if there is no somatic literacy. Kyle shares a vivid story from a ketamine training where his near death trauma was reactivated and how simple breath awareness, slow belly breathing, and body based skills kept him from panicking or fleeing. Throughout, they return to a key point: Holotropic Breathwork and related practices can restore agency. The breather chooses when to intensify, when to slow down, and how far to go, which can be deeply reparative for people whose trauma involved a loss of control. Later Discussion and Takeaways: Holotropic Breathwork as Foundation, Not Shortcut Later in the conversation, Joe and Kyle caution against "keeping up with the Joneses" in psychedelic culture. They talk about people chasing ever bigger doses, accruing trauma, and then needing years of therapy to sort it out. Breathwork, including Holotropic Breathwork in a well held group setting, is offered as a slower, more grounded way to explore non ordinary states while building skills that transfer into medicine work. They outline the core components of Grof lineage breathwork: intensified breathing, evocative music, focused body support, expressive art, and group sharing in a safe container. Joe highlights how group process, mandala drawing, and simply being witnessed can be as healing as the inner journey itself. They also flag practical next steps: Kyle's self paced breathwork foundations course at the Psychedelic Education Center, upcoming live online sessions, and in person weekend workshops in places like Breckenridge. Frequently Asked Questions What is Holotropic Breathwork? Holotropic Breathwork is a structured group process developed by Stan and Christina Grof that uses accelerated breathing, evocative music, supportive bodywork, art, and integration sharing to access non ordinary states of consciousness without substances. Is Holotropic Breathwork as intense as psychedelics? For some people, yes. Joe and Kyle both describe Holotropic Breathwork sessions that matched the depth of powerful LSD or ayahuasca journeys, while also noting that some sessions are quiet, restful, and focused on simple nervous system regulation. Can I do Holotropic Breathwork alone at home? They strongly suggest caution. Gentle breath practices can be explored solo, but Holotropic Breathwork as taught in the Grof lineages is designed for a trained facilitation team and a group container to reduce risk and support intense emotional or somatic processes. How does Holotropic Breathwork help with psychedelic preparation and integration? Breathwork helps people learn their own nervous system, practice staying with difficult material, and build trust in inner process. These skills often translate into more resilience, flexibility, and agency before, during, and after psychedelic sessions. Is Holotropic Breathwork backed by research? Research on breathwork is growing, especially around heart rate variability, stress, and subjective mystical type experiences. Joe and Kyle emphasize that early studies suggest overlaps with psychedelic states, but they avoid framing Holotropic Breathwork as a cure and instead present it as a powerful tool within a broader healing path. In a culture that often treats psychedelics like quick fixes, this episode makes the case for slow foundations, embodied practice, and honest respect for the risks. By placing Holotropic Breathwork and the other Grof lineage breathwork practices inside a larger conversation about trauma, agency, and community, Joe and Kyle offer a grounded path for anyone who wants to explore non ordinary states in a safer, more skillful way. Learn more about breathwork in the Foundations class here.

Alexander Beiner joins Psychedelics Today to explore how psychedelics, culture, and power shape each other. A writer, facilitator, and co founder of the conference Breaking Convention and the media platform KAINOS, he has spent years thinking about how psychedelic experiences ripple into politics, economics, conflict, and community. In this episode, he and Joe trace the path from early internet forums to today's psychedelic renaissance, and ask what it would mean to bring a truly psychedelic perspective into our institutions. Beiner is less interested in psychedelics as a niche medical tool and more interested in how they can help us see through destructive cultural "games," reconnect to our bodies, and relate across deep divides. Early themes with Alexander Beiner The conversation starts with Beiner's origin story. He describes formative psychedelic experiences as a teenager, and how early access to thinkers like Terence McKenna, Timothy Leary, and the Shulgins led him onto the Grow Report forum and its associated podcasts. From there he launched his own visionary art podcast and eventually co founded Rebel Wisdom, where he focused more broadly on culture, systems, and meaning rather than only on psychedelics. He explains that most of his writing has not been about psychedelic substances, but about a "psychedelic approach" to reality. That means paying attention to complexity, paradox, and relationship, and asking what a psychedelic form of education, politics, or media might look like. He also touches on his documentary "Leviathan," which looks at breakdowns of trust, disembodiment, and the social forces that pull us away from what is real and relational. Core insights from this conversation In the middle of the episode, the discussion moves into concrete tensions in the current psychedelic resurgence. Topics include: How medicalization can both help and constrain access Cognitive liberty and the right to alter one's own consciousness Psychedelic capitalism and the "Moloch" problem of destructive competitive games The risks and potential of psychedelic religions and new spiritual communities Beiner highlights work on ayahuasca circles for Israelis and Palestinians, noting how "we are all one" language can sometimes block necessary truth telling about power and harm. He returns often to embodiment as a key corrective. When people slow down, feel their bodies, and notice what is actually happening in their nervous systems, they can hold disagreement without dehumanizing each other. He also points to emerging work on psychedelics for creativity and problem solving, including stories where psychedelic insights contributed to breakthroughs in science and complex systems thinking. For him, this is one of the most exciting frontiers, because it shifts the story from "fixing a deficit" to "creating something new." Later discussion and takeaways with Alexander Beiner Later in the episode, Alexander Beiner and Joe talk about cult dynamics, religious freedom, and the need for better checks and balances in emerging psychedelic communities. Beiner stresses that humans are naturally drawn into strong groups and narratives, so the key is not to eliminate "cults" but to spot harmful patterns early and build better accountability. They explore how double binds and mixed messages can create mental distress, and how psychedelics can sometimes resolve these binds by adding new context and perspectives. From there, the conversation turns to third spaces, communitas, and the urgent need for more embodied, in person culture beyond screens, work, and home. Practical takeaways include: Work with psychedelics in ways that reconnect you to your body, not just your ideas Treat medicalization as one path among many, not the only legitimate route Pay attention to group dynamics, power, and accountability in any psychedelic setting Look for ways to bring "psychedelic virtues" like flexibility, curiosity, and compassion into your workplace, family, and community Frequently Asked Questions Who is Alexander Beiner? Alexander Beiner is a writer, facilitator, and co founder of the psychedelic conference Breaking Convention and the media platform Kinos. His work focuses on culture, systems, and how psychedelic perspectives can reshape society. What is Alexander Beiner's book about? His recent book (discussed in this episode) looks at how psychedelics interact with politics, capitalism, and culture, and asks whether they can help us navigate multiple crises without getting captured by the same destructive games. How does Alexander Beiner view psychedelic medicalization? He sees medicalization as useful but limited. He supports access for people who need it, but worries that a purely medical frame reinforces class divides and hands too much power to psychiatry, instead of centering cognitive liberty and community based use. What is Leviathan in Alexander Beiner's work? "Leviathan" is his documentary on the breakdown of trust, disembodiment, and large scale systems that pull us away from what is real and relational. It connects mythic images, embodiment, and modern crises of meaning. What is Kinos and how does it relate to Alexander Beiner? KAINOS is Beiner's Substack based media platform, focused on surfacing novel perspectives and stories about culture, psychedelics, and the future. It extends many of the themes explored in this episode. This episode places Alexander Beiner within the wider psychedelic resurgence as a voice linking inner work to outer systems. For clinicians, researchers, and community members, it offers a rich invitation to think beyond individual healing and ask how psychedelic perspectives might help us transform the cultural games we are playing. KAINOS The Bigger Picture Breaking Convention

Overview Evelyn Eddy Shoop PMHNP-BC joins Psychedelics Today to share her journey from Division I athlete to psychiatric mental health nurse practitioner and psilocybin research participant. In this conversation, she explains how sports injuries, OCD, and intensive treatment led her into psychiatry and eventually into a psilocybin clinical trial at Yale. Her story weaves together lived experience, clinical training, and a call for more humane systems of care and better qualitative data in psychedelic science. Early Themes: Injury, OCD, and Choosing Psychiatry Early in the episode, Evelyn Eddy Shoop PMHNP-BC describes how multiple season ending injuries in college and serious mental health stressors in her family pushed her to rethink her life path. Originally pre vet, she stepped away from veterinary medicine after realizing she could not tolerate that environment. During a semester off for surgery and mental health, she completed intensive outpatient treatment and family therapy. That time showed her how powerful psychological work could be. It also reawakened a long standing curiosity about the brain, consciousness, and human experience. This led her to switch her major to psychology and later pursue psychiatric mental health nurse practitioner training at the University of Pennsylvania. At Penn, she felt supported academically and personally. Her interest in psychedelics grew as she realized that standard OCD treatments and high dose SSRIs were not giving her the level of functioning or happiness she knew was possible. Core Insights: Psilocybin Trials, Qualitative Data, and Clinical Skepticism In the middle of the episode, Eddy shares the story of finding a psilocybin trial on ClinicalTrials.gov just as she was about to start ketamine therapy. She received placebo first, then open label psilocybin, and describes the dosing day as one of the hardest days of her life, with benefits that emerged slowly over months through integration. She uses her experience to highlight why qualitative data matters. Numbers alone cannot capture the depth of a psychedelic journey or the slow unfolding of meaning over time. She argues that subjective stories, even difficult ones, are essential for clinicians, researchers, and policymakers. Key themes include: The central role of integration support in turning a crisis level session into lasting growth How trial environments on inpatient psychiatric units can feel like prison instead of healing spaces The limits of double blind placebo trials when participants become desperate for active treatment The need for more nuanced language around psychosis and psychedelic harms Eddy also addresses skepticism in psychiatry. Many providers fear substance induced psychosis and feel uneasy with medicines whose mechanisms are not fully understood. She suggests that more lived experience stories and careful education can help bridge that gap. Later Discussion and Takeaways In the later part of the episode, Eddy and Joe discuss harm reduction, ketamine risks, and how poorly designed systems can create harm even when the medicine itself is helpful. Eddy describes being treated as "just another psych patient" once the research team left for the day, including being denied basic comforts like headache relief after an emotionally intense session. She calls for: More humane hospital and research environments Required psychedelic education in psychiatric training Honest, nonjudgmental conversations about substance use with patients Stronger public education for students and festival communities Eddy also invites listeners in Wilmington, Delaware and nearby regions to connect if they need a psychiatric mental health nurse practitioner for psychedelic related research. She hopes to bring her lived experience and clinical skills into the emerging field as psilocybin and other treatments move toward approval. Frequently Asked Questions Who is Evelyn Eddy Shoop PMHNP-BC? She is a psychiatric mental health nurse practitioner trained at the University of Pennsylvania, a former Division I athlete, and a psilocybin trial participant who now advocates for more humane and data informed psychedelic care. What did Eddy learn from her psilocybin clinical trial experience? She learned that the hardest sessions can lead to deep change when integration support is strong and when there is time to unpack insights, rather than rushing to rate symptoms on a scale. Why does she care so much about qualitative data in psychedelic research? Eddy believes that numbers cannot capture the full human impact of psychedelic therapy. Stories show how people actually live with their disorders and integrate change, which is vital for ethical practice and policy. How does she view psychedelic harms and psychosis risk? She acknowledges real risks, especially for people with certain histories, but also notes that some psychotic experiences are not distressing. She calls for more precise language, better containers, and honest harm reduction education. What role does a psychiatric nurse practitioner like Evelyn play in psychedelic care? Practitioners like Evelyn can assess risk, prescribe within legal frameworks, provide preparation and integration, and help bridge the gap between traditional psychiatry and emerging psychedelic therapies. Psychedelic care is evolving fast, and this episode shows why voices like Evelyn Eddy Shoop PMHNP-BC are essential in the current psychedelic resurgence. Her blend of lived experience, clinical training, and critical thinking points toward a future where data and story, safety and possibility, can finally grow together.

In this episode, Joe Moore sits down with Dr. Jason Konner, a longtime oncologist who recently left his full-time clinical role at Memorial Sloan Kettering to devote himself to the emerging intersection of cancer care and psychedelics. Dr Konner shares how, after more than two decades treating people, he hit a wall. The accumulated grief, constant exposure to death, and intensity of oncology left him deeply burned out, though he didn't have that language for it at the time. A chance moment in a yoga class, overhearing someone say "ayahuasca retreat" just before he was scheduled for hernia surgery, became the turning point. Within a week, he was in the jungle. That first week with ayahuasca, followed later by work with mushrooms, "absolutely transformed" his life. His fear of death lifted. The burnout he hadn't even recognized in himself was both revealed and relieved. When he returned to his practice, Konner describes feeling like he suddenly had a "superpower": he could stay present, connected, and compassionate with patients facing advanced disease without collapsing under the emotional weight. He and Joe explore what this third path looks like: not the classic binary between either hardening and distancing as self-protection, or staying open-hearted and getting shattered. Instead, psychedelics helped him hold deep relationship with patients and families while maintaining inner stability and meaning. This opened space for authentic conversations about spirituality, fear, grief, and what it means to live with (or die from) cancer. From there, Dr Konner zooms out to critique the broader oncology system: The lack of training and support for oncologists around their own emotional and existential load, How little space there is for relational work even though it's central to healing, Why many support groups and standard psychiatric approaches (like reflexively prescribing SSRIs) often miss the mark for people dealing with cancer, How caregivers, partners, family members, and others are deeply affected but rarely truly supported. Joe and Jason then dig into psychedelics and oncology as a frontier: easing existential distress in patients with terminal cancer, the neglected suffering of caregivers, the potential role of psychedelics in helping people relate differently to death, and what it might mean for ICU use, aggressive end-of-life interventions, and overall healthcare costs if more people could make decisions from a place of peace rather than terror. Dr Konner also shares a striking ovarian cancer case that hinted at powerful immune changes after shamanic work, and why he believes we need new research paradigms that can honor the integrity of retreat and ceremonial settings while still learning from them. Finally, he talks about his early-stage project, Psychedelic Oncology, and his hope that the first wave of change starts with clinicians themselves becoming more psychedelic-literate—and, where appropriate, doing their own inner work—so better options can eventually reach the people who need them most. Learn more - https://psychedeliconcology.com/

Clinical psychologist Dr. Genesee Herzberg joins Kyle to reflect on two decades in trauma work and 15 years inside the psychedelic ecosystem—from early MAPS conferences to running Sage Integrative Health. She traces how personal psychedelic experiences set her on a path of service, research at CIIS on MDMA-assisted therapy, and hands-on roles with MAPS: Zendo Project harm reduction, adherence rating, and ultimately serving as an MDMA therapist in clinical trials. Today she leads Sage, an integrative clinic (psychotherapy, psychiatry, bodywork, acupuncture, and functional nutrition) focused on ketamine-assisted therapy while preparing for MDMA's eventual approval. She also co-founded a sliding-scale KAP nonprofit (now Alchemy Community Therapy Center), co-edited Integral Psychedelic Therapy, and is helping to launch the International Alliance of MDMA Practitioners. In this episode From counterculture to mainstream: What's been gained—and lost—as psychedelics scaled. Accessibility vs. corporatization: Why cutting corners (prep/integration, therapeutic time) undermines outcomes and safety. "Myth of the magic pill": Psychedelics can catalyze change, but healing is an ongoing process anchored by integration. What good care looks like: Preparation → medicine sessions → robust integration, individualized cadence, and adding bodywork and functional medicine to address gut-brain links, mineral status, sleep, and somatic tension. Ketamine realities: Differences between psycholytic (talk-forward) and psychedelic (eyes-closed, inner-directed) dosing; why some need multiple sessions to build relationship with the medicine; risks of mail-order models (high dosing, poor screening/support), daily prescribing, addiction potential, cystitis, and safety concerns. Sitting, not guiding: The therapist's task is to follow the client's process; intervene sparingly and with consent—especially in trauma work where attuned co-regulation is essential. Multiple access pathways: Support for regulated clinical care and community, peer, and ceremonial models—paired with education and harm reduction (Zendo's SIT peer training and new crisis-responder training). The MDMA pause: Initial devastation at the FDA decision gave way to seeing benefits: time to strengthen ethics, accountability, training standards, and to temper hype-driven investment. Pace and ethics: Lessons from burnout; moving at the speed of trust; exploring "psychedelic business models" (stakeholder focus, distributed decision-making, employee ownership, public benefit structures). Resources & organizations mentioned Sage Integrative Health Alchemy Community Therapy Center (sliding-scale KAP) International Alliance of MDMA Practitioners Integral Psychedelic Therapy (edited by Genesee Herzberg, Jason Butler, Richard Miller) Takeaway: Thoughtful preparation, right-sized dosing, and committed integration—held within ethical, community-minded systems—turn powerful experiences into durable change.

Clinical psychologist Dr. Ros Watts joins Psychedelics Today to share insights from her decade of work with psilocybin therapy and her evolving focus on community-based integration. As the former Clinical Lead for Imperial College London's landmark psilocybin-for-depression trial, Dr. Watts witnessed how psychedelic experiences can foster profound feelings of connection— to self, others, and nature — yet also how that connection can fade without ongoing support. In this conversation, she reflects on what years of research have taught her about connectedness as both a healing mechanism and a human need. She explores how integration work can transform fleeting psychedelic breakthroughs into lasting change, and why community is not just a "nice-to-have," but a core part of psychological and ecological resilience. Dr. Ros Watts also discusses her "Twelve Trees" framework — a nature-inspired model for personal and collective growth that helps participants translate insight into action through values, embodiment, and mutual care. Her current project, ACER Integration (Accept, Connect, Embody, Restore), is a 13-month, co-created journey that guides people in weaving psychedelic insights into everyday life while deepening relationships with self, others, and the living world. Named among the Top 50 Most Influential People in Psychedelics and Top 16 Women Shaping the Future of Psychedelics, Dr. Watts continues to advocate for integration, harm-reduction, and inclusion in the psychedelic space. Together, we explore what sustainable healing really means, how organizations can embody the same principles they teach, and how the psychedelic movement can root itself in care, connection, and community. Learn more about ACER Integration: https://acerintegration.com Find Dr Ros Watt's webpage here. https://www.drrosalindwatts.com/

Artist, builder, and podcast host Jennifer Espenscheid joins Joe Moore for a rich conversation on creativity, process, and the spiritual dimensions of making art. Drawing from her South Dakota roots and large-scale works like Luciferia, Jennifer reflects on the blend of grit, intuition, and trust that guides her artistic life. She discusses how psychedelics have served as a tool for clarity and healing rather than direct creation of art, helping her dissolve patterns and reconnect to innate creativity. They explore how events like Burning Man catalyze inspiration, why intention and integration matter as much as vision, and the discipline of "earning your dopamine"—staying self-motivated instead of chasing external highs. Jennifer shares lessons about gestation, patience, and protecting early ideas before they're ready to be seen. Together they examine creativity as a human birthright and art as a daily practice of attention and renewal. "By being human, you are intrinsically creative. Psychedelics help me clear the noise so I can actually hear and honor that." Links The Soma Show - Main website Podcast on YouTube Jennifer on LinkedIn

Brad Adams — LAMPS (Los Angeles Psychedelic Society) joins Kyle to trace his path from PhD researcher to community builder. Brad shares how early work in AIDS, Alzheimer's, gerontology, and cancer research primed him to notice Harbor-UCLA's psilocybin pilot for stage-4 cancer patients with death anxiety—where the strongest mystical experiences correlated with profound death acceptance. Teaming with Dennis McKenna, he ran an ayahuasca pilot in Peru and presented findings at Psychedelic Science 2017. From there, Brad founded LAMPS: first as research meetups at UCLA, then as a thriving hub hosting speakers and, ultimately, an L.A. psychedelic conference. He previews the November 1 event at Above the Block in West L.A.: daytime panels on cannabis, preparation/integration, and music & psychedelics; a vendor hall; and a "Healing Lounge" with bodywork, astrology, human design, and more—closing with a late-night dance party featuring David Starfire. Brad offers grounded advice for starting local communities (begin small, meet regularly, curate safe dialogue, and moderate firmly), and reflects on platform friction around psychedelics. The conversation widens to DMTx (extended-state DMT), entity encounters, and what humble, relational curiosity can reveal—then to Wetiko, IFS, and the hero's journey as frames for keeping hope alive in turbulent times. A candid and practical tour of research, resilience, and real-world community building.

In this episode, Kyle and Joe sit down with filmmaker Mustapha Khan and Dreamshadow's Elizabeth & Lenny Gibson to explore Life and Breath—a new documentary immersing viewers in the experience and community of Holotropic Breathwork. We talk about why Mustapha was drawn to Dreamshadow, the film's cinéma vérité approach that places you "in the room," and how years of facilitation informed what became both an archival record and a living portrait of transformation. Elizabeth and Lenny reflect on 35+ years of holding space, the role of curiosity over agenda, and why genuine community—not just catharsis—is central to lasting growth. Kyle and Joe share personal reactions from a Breckenridge screening, the emotions it stirred, and how this work has shaped Psychedelics Today. We close on hope, relationship, and the power of gathering to remember who we are. Keep an eye out for upcoming screenings and Q&As with the team behind Life and Breath. Dreamshadow Life and Breath won first place at the Psychedelic Film and Music Festival!

In this episode, Joe Moore talks with Megan Portnoy, a doctoral candidate in clinical psychology at Antioch University New England, about how ontological design can reshape the environments used in psychedelic-assisted therapy. Megan explains how physical space is not just a backdrop but an active participant in the therapeutic process, influencing emotion, cognition, and healing. She recently won an award for her presentation on this topic at PsychedelX. They explore how design principles that foster awe, play, and flexibility can deepen integration and expand what's possible in clinical settings. The conversation also examines how psychedelic communities can balance openness with discernment, apply more psychological rigor, and avoid falling into ungrounded or high-demand group dynamics. This rich discussion bridges psychology, philosophy, design, and culture—inviting us to think critically about not only how we use psychedelics, but the spaces, systems, and stories that shape our collective evolution.

Joe and Kyle open with reflections from their first r/psychonaut AMA, then pivot to why they're building Navigators—our off-social community with book/film clubs, early ad-free episodes, mentorship, and an expanding education library. The core discussion explores touch and bodywork in breathwork and psychedelic contexts: why defaulting to "no touch" and moving slowly matters; informed consent; reading nonverbals; and keeping client agency central. They unpack trauma-informed concepts like the window of tolerance, polyvagal‐adjacent ideas (and critiques), and the ethics of avoiding re-traumatization or facilitator-driven interventions ("WAIT: Why am I Talking/Treating/Touching?"). The duo emphasize that bodywork requires specialized training and careful framing—supportive, not performative. Plus: updates on upcoming offerings—Advanced Shadow Work with Dr. Ido Cohen (starts Oct 20), music for sessions, digital security for practitioners, spiritual emergence, somatics/trauma, and inner-work integration. Join Navigators to learn in community and help shape future conversations.

Interviewers: Joe Moore & Anne Philippi Guests: TK Wonder & Cipriana Quann (The Quann Sisters) Recorded: June 18 during MAPS PS 2025 Content note: This episode discusses childhood sexual, physical, and emotional abuse, suicidal ideation, disordered eating, and recovery. Identical twins, writers, and culture-shapers TK Wonder and Cipriana Quann join Joe and Anne for a frank, generous conversation about identity, resilience, and the long arc of healing. Cipriana recounts launching Urban Bush Babes in 2011 to center women of color in beauty and fashion—work that led to a Vogue "day-in-the-life" feature and collaborations with couture houses. TK shares the parallel path of her music career (opening for artists from Sting and Nas to Erykah Badu and Queens of the Stone Age) and the sisters' ongoing writing, public speaking, and mental-health advocacy. They reflect on the fashion industry's policing of natural hair, how those daily microaggressions erode self-worth, and why legal protections like the CROWN Act matter. The heart of the episode is their survival story: a decade of abuse by their father, endured separately yet witnessed together. Seeing one another live through it—"a physical manifestation of survival," as they put it—kept them alive. As adults, daily check-ins remain their core practice. Psychedelics entered their lives years later. With careful set and setting, education, and professional support, psychedelic sessions—especially ibogaine—helped surface grief, release shame, and reframe entrenched coping strategies. Cipriana's first extended session unlocked tears she'd been forced to suppress as a child; TK describes a transformative ibogaine experience that catalyzed a decisive shift away from refined sugar and ultra-processed foods toward sustained movement, earlier mornings, and mindful nourishment. Both emphasize that psychedelics are not "magic pills" in isolation: integration, therapy, community, and lifestyle design make insights durable. The conversation also tackles safety and access. The sisters stress working with experienced facilitators and medical oversight, naming that these modalities aren't for everyone. They call for more affordability and BIPOC representation in a field that can still feel exclusionary, while holding a wide tent vision—everyone deserves the chance to heal. They note how narratives are changing (from early-2000s panic to mainstream book-club conversations), and how stories alongside science move culture and policy. Highlights Fashion, hair politics, and the CROWN Act's importance. Sisterhood as lifeline; daily check-ins as grown-up therapy. First sessions: somatic release, grief, and reframing shame. Ibogaine's role in behavior change; why integration is the bridge. Safety, access, and representation: making healing containers truly welcoming. If you're exploring this work: educate deeply, choose qualified support, prioritize integration, and remember—your past is a chapter, not your whole story.

In this candid, practice-focused conversation, Joe is joined by Norwegian psychologist and researcher Ivar Goksøyr to explore how therapists' own healing journeys can measurably improve client outcomes—and why MDMA-assisted experiences, used thoughtfully, may be a uniquely powerful catalyst for professional development. Ivar shares lessons from Norway's psychedelic research team (PTSD and the world's first MDMA-for-depression trial), his clinic Psykologvirke in Oslo, and his online course, "The Wounded Healer," which uses authentic footage from his FDA-approved MAPS volunteer MDMA sessions to illuminate real clinical processes, countertransference, and the "inner healing intelligence" as a working metaphor rather than dogma. The discussion ranges from implementation realities (laws, ethics, and conservative regulatory cultures) to the pragmatic: how an MDMA experience helped Ivar resolve chronic anxiety reactions in the therapy chair, reduced burn-out, increased receptivity, and improved attunement—changes he believes many clinicians can cultivate when personal growth is prioritized alongside methods training. He outlines a developing collaboration with the University of Oslo on Empathogen-Assisted Therapies Development—not to "dose for certification," but to support therapists' self-awareness and resilience in legally sanctioned research contexts. They also compare compounds: why MDMA may be easier to integrate into mainstream psychiatry than classic tryptamines (fewer projective processes, more biographical focus, smoother affect regulation), while acknowledging the immense promise—and higher demands—of psilocybin and other psychedelics. Throughout, they emphasize humility, guardrails, and the need to keep learning as the field scales (with frank reflections on ketamine's mixed rollout and avoiding idealization/devaluation cycles). Highlights Why therapist factors often outweigh modality—and how personal work translates into better outcomes. Using real session video (with Ivar as participant) to normalize vulnerability, illuminate process, and train pattern recognition. Regulatory and ethical nuances of self-experience in training; building consensus before policy change. Inner healing intelligence as a clinical metaphor aligned with Rogers, Rank, and psychodynamic concepts (unconscious therapeutic alliance). MDMA vs. classic psychedelics for implementation; sequencing with ketamine in public systems. Global classroom: 270+ clinicians from every continent; course structure centered on reflection, discussion, and live analysis.

Joe and Kyle debrief a hometown Dreamshadow Transpersonal Breathwork weekend in Breckenridge, then sketch the next chapter for Psychedelics Today: a community-centric model (Navigators) that bundles education, live streams, book and film clubs, and small-group access. They kick around the big "creativity + psychedelics" question, contrast subjective "I feel creative" with objective task performance, and highlight new research—from DMT's potential in stroke recovery to breathwork's measurable effects. They wrap with quick hits on MAPS leadership, state policy moves, and what's coming up at PT this fall. Highlights & takeaways Breathwork > substance? A reminder that profound states are accessible without drugs; benefits of facilitating at home (rested facilitators = safer, better containers). What is "shamanism," really? A functional frame: non-ordinary states, interaction with the unseen, and service (healing/divination). Community > one-off courses: PT is shifting toward a monthly membership model to keep prices accessible, deepen relationships, and sustain more free content. Creativity debate: Double-blind study (DMT + harmine vs harmine vs placebo) suggests impaired convergent thinking despite increased felt creativity; how to define and measure "creativity" fairly, and other research outcomes might tell a different story. Whitehead & novelty: A quick tour through Alfred North Whitehead's notion of "creativity" as the principle of novelty—useful language for mapping psychedelic insight to real-world change. Neuro + clinical frontiers: DMT for stroke (animal models): BBB stabilization and reduced neuroinflammation signal a promising adjunct to current care. Cluster headaches: Emerging reports on short-acting DMT for rapidly aborting cluster cycles; more data coming soon. Breathwork science: New imaging work associates music-supported hyperventilatory breathwork with blissful affect and shifts in blood flow. News & culture mentioned MAPS leadership: Betty Aldworth & Ismail (Izzy) Ali named permanent Co-Executive Directors. Policy snapshots: Colorado Natural Medicine Board recommending ibogaine (with Nagoya-compliance requirement); Alaska signature gathering; Massachusetts activity. Media & scene: Hamilton's recent appearances; contamination concerns in some "psilocybin" products; "psychedelics tick far more neurons than expected" paper; mixed findings for postpartum depression.

Episode summary Joe and Mary dive into how platform censorship and shifting algorithms have reshaped psychedelic media, why DoubleBlind moved to a "newsletter-first" model, and what that's revealed about true audience engagement. They reflect on the post-2024 MDMA decision headwinds, state-level policy moves (wins and losses), and how funding, politics, and culture continue to reconfigure the field. They also explore alternatives to alcohol, chronic pain research, reciprocity around iboga/ibogaine, and lessons from PS25 (MAPS' Psychedelic Science 2025). Highlights & themes From platforms to inboxes: Social and search suppression (IG/FB/Google) throttled harm-reduction journalism; DoubleBlind's pivot to email dramatically improved reach and engagement. Post-MDMA decision reality: Investment cooled; Mary frames it as painful but necessary growth—an ecosystem "airing out" rather than a catastrophic pop. Policy pulse: Mixed year—some state measures stalled (e.g., MA), others advanced (e.g., NM; ongoing Colorado process). Rescheduling cannabis may add complexity more than clarity. Censorship paradox: Suppressing education makes use less safe; independent outlets need community support to keep harm-reduction info visible. Chronic pain & long COVID: Emerging overlaps and training efforts (e.g., Psychedelics & Pain communities) point beyond a psychiatry-only frame. Alcohol alternatives: Low-dose or occasional psychedelic use can shift habits for some; Mary stresses individual context and support beyond any single substance. Reciprocity & iboga: Rising interest (including from right-leaning funders) must include Indigenous consultation and fair benefit-sharing; pace of capitalism vs. community care is an active tension. PS25 field notes: Smaller, more manageable vibe than 2023; fewer "gold-rush" expectations; in-person dialogue beats online flame wars. Notable mentions DoubleBlind: Newsletter-first publishing; nurturing new writers and reported stories. Psychedelics & Pain Association / Clusterbusters: Community-driven models informing care and research (cluster headache protocols history). Books & media: Body Autonomy (Synergetic Press anthology); Joanna Kempner's work on cluster headaches - Psychedelic Outlaws; Lucy Walker's forthcoming iboga film. Compounds to watch: LSD (under-studied relative to MDMA), 2C-B, 5-MeO-DMT (synthetic focus), and broader Shulgin-inspired families.   Mary Carreon: [00:00:00] Okay, I'm gonna send it to my dad because he wants to know. Here Joe Moore: we go. Yeah, send it over. So, hi everybody. We're live Joe here with Mary Anne, how you doing today? Mary Carreon: I'm great Joe. How are you? Joe Moore: Lovely. I actually never asked you how to pronounce your last name does say it right? Mary Carreon: Yes, you did. You said it perfectly Joe Moore: lovely. Joe Moore: Um, great. So it's been a bit, um, we are streaming on LinkedIn, YouTube, Twitch X and Kick, I guess. Yeah. Kick meta. Meta doesn't let me play anymore. Um, Mary Carreon: you're in forever. Timeout. I got it. I got it. Yeah. Joe Moore: Yeah. I think they found a post the other day from 2017. They didn't like, I'm like, oh cool. Like neat, you Mary Carreon: know, you know. Mary Carreon: Yeah. That happened to me recently, actually. Uh, I had a post taken down from 2018 about, uh, mushroom gummies and yeah, it was taken down and I have strikes on my account now. So Joe Moore: Do you get the thing where they ask you if you're okay? Mary Carreon: Yes, with, but like with my searches though, [00:01:00] like if I search something or, or someone's account that has, uh, like mushroom or psychedelic or LSD or something in it, they'll be like, mm-hmm are you okay? Mary Carreon: And then it recommends getting help. So Joe Moore: it's like, to be fair, I don't know if I'm okay, but Yeah, you're like, probably not. I don't really want your help. Meta. Yeah. Mary Carreon: You're like, I actually do need help, but not from you. Thanks. Yeah, Joe Moore: yeah, yeah. Mary Carreon: So not from the techno fascists. Joe Moore: Oh, good lord. Yeah. Uh, we'll go there. Joe Moore: I'm sure. Mary Carreon: I know. I just like really dove right there. Sorry. Yeah. All right, so let's, Joe Moore: um, before we go, let's give people like a bit of, you know, high kicks on, on who is Mary, where you working these days and what are you doing? Mary Carreon: Yeah, thank you. My name is Mary Carryon and I am forever and first and foremost a journalist. Mary Carreon: I have been covering, I say the plant legalization spaces for the past decade. It's, it's been nine and a half years. Uh, on January 3rd it will be [00:02:00] 10 years. And I got my start covering cannabis, uh, at OC Weekly. And from there went to High Times, and from there went to Mary Jane, worked for Snoop Dogg. And then, uh, I am now. Mary Carreon: Double blind. And I have become recently, as of this year, the editor in chief of Double Blind, and that's where I have been currently sinking my teeth into everything. So currently, you know, at this moment I'm an editor and I am basically also a curator. So, and, and somebody who is a, uh, I guess an observer of this space more than anything these days. Mary Carreon: Um, I'm not really reporting in the same way that I was. Um, but still I am helping many journalists tell stories and, uh, I feel kind of like a story midwife in many ways. Just like helping people produce stories and get the, get the quotes, get the angles that need to be discussed, get the sentences structures right, and, um, uh, helping [00:03:00] sometimes in a visionary kind of, uh, mindset. Mary Carreon: So yeah, that's what I'm doing these days. Joe Moore: Oh, there it is. Oh, there you are. Love that. And um, you know, it's important to have, um, editors who kind of really get it from a lot of different angles. I love that we have a lot of alignment on this kind of, and the drug war thing and kind of let's, uh, hopefully start developing systems that are for people. Joe Moore: Yeah, absolutely. If you wanna just say that. Yeah, absolutely. Mary Carreon: Yeah, absolutely. Joe Moore: So, um, yeah, I almost 10 years in January. That's great. We um, it's so crazy that it's been that long. I think we just turned nine and a half, so we're maybe just a few, a few months shorter than your I love it. Plant medicine reporting career. Joe Moore: That's great. I love it. Um, yeah, so I think. I think one of the first times we chatted, [00:04:00] um, I think you were doing a piece about two cb Do you, do you have any recollection of doing a piece on two cb? Mary Carreon: I do, yes. Yes. Wait, I also remember hitting you up during an Instagram live and I was like, are you guys taking any writers? Mary Carreon: And you guys were like writers, I mean, maybe depending on the writer. Joe Moore: And I was like, I was like, I dunno how that works. Mary Carreon: Like me. Yeah. Joe Moore: Yeah. It was fun. It was fun to work with people like yourself and like get pieces out there. And eventually we had an awesome editor for a bit and that was, that was really cool to be able to like support young startup writers who have a lot of opinions and a lot of things to point out. Joe Moore: There's so much happening. Um, there was so much fraud in like wave one. Of kind of the psychedelic investment hype. There's still some, but it's lesser. Um, and it's really a fascinating space still. Like changing lives, changing not just lives, right? Like our [00:05:00] perspective towards nearly everything, right? Joe Moore: Yeah. Mary Carreon: Yes, absolutely. Absolutely. I mean, it's interesting because the space has matured. It's evolved. It's different than it was even, what a, I mean, definitely nine years ago, but even five years ago, even four years ago, even last year, things are different. The landscape is different than it was a year ago. Mary Carreon: And I, it's, it's interesting to see the politics of things. It's interesting to see who has money these days given like how hard it is just to kind of survive in this space. And it's interesting just to. Bear witness to all of this going down because it really is a once in a lifetime thing. Nothing is gonna look the same as it does now, as it, uh, then it will like in a, in a year from now or anything. Mary Carreon: So it's really, yeah. It's interesting to take account of all of this Joe Moore: That's so real. Uh, maybe a little [00:06:00] too real, like it's serious because like with everything that's going on from, um, you know, governance, governments, ai Yes. Drug policy shifts. Drug tech shifts, yes. There's so much interesting movement. Um, yes. Joe Moore: You, you know, you, you kind of called it out and I think it's really actually worth discussing here since we're both here on the air together, like this idea that the psychedelic market, not idea, the lived experience of the psychedelic market having shifted substantially. And I, I, I think there's a lot of causes. Joe Moore: But I've never had the opportunity to really chat with you about this kind of like interesting downturn in money flowing into the space. Mm-hmm. Have you thought about it? Like what might the causes be? I'm sure you have. Mary Carreon: Yeah. Yeah, I have. Yeah. I've thought about it. I mean, it's hard. Well, I don't know. I am really not trying to point fingers and that's not what I'm [00:07:00] trying to do here. Mary Carreon: But I mean, I think a lot of people were really hopeful that the FDA decision last June, not last June, the previous June, a year ago, 2024, June was going to open the floodgates in terms of funding, in terms of, um. In terms of mostly funding, but also just greater opportunities for the space and, uh, greater legitimacy granted to the psychedelic medicine space. Mary Carreon: Mm. And for those who might not know what I'm talking about, I'm talking about the, uh, FDA decision to reject, uh, MDMA assisted therapy and, um, that whole, that whole thing that happened, I'm sure if it, you didn't even have to really understand what was going on in order to get wind of that wild situation. Mary Carreon: Um, so, so maybe, yeah. You probably know what I'm talking about, but I, I do think that that had a great impact on this space. Do I think it was detrimental to this space? [00:08:00] I don't think so. We are in a growth spurt, you know, like we are growing and growing pains happen when you are evolving and changing and learning and figuring out the way forward. Mary Carreon: So I think it was kind of a natural process for all of this and. If things had gone forward like while, yeah, there probably would be more money, there would be greater opportunity in this space for people wanting to get in and get jobs and make a living and have a life for themselves in this, in this world. Mary Carreon: I don't know if it was, I don't know if it would necessarily be for the betterment of the space in general for the long term. I think that we do have to go through challenges in order for the best case scenarios to play out in the future, even though that's difficult to say now because so many of us are struggling. Mary Carreon: So, but I, but I have hope and, and that statement is coming from a place of hope for the future of this space and this culture. Joe Moore: Yeah. It's, um, I'm with [00:09:00] you. Like we have to see boom bust cycles. We have to see growth and contraction just like natural ecosystems do. Mary Carreon: Absolutely, absolutely. It has to be that way. Mary Carreon: And if it's not that way, then ifs, if. It's, it like what forms in place of that is a big bubble or like a, a hot air balloon that's inevitably going to pop, which, like, we are kind of experiencing that. But I think that the, I think that the, um, the, the air letting out of the balloon right now is a much softer experience than it would be if everything was just like a green light all the way forward, if that makes sense. Mary Carreon: So, Joe Moore: right. And there's, there's so many factors. Like I'm, I'm thinking about, uh, metas censorship like we were talking about before. Yes. Other big tech censorship, right? Mm-hmm. SEO shifts. Mary Carreon: Oh. Um, yes, absolutely. Also, uh, there were some pretty major initiatives on the state level that did not pass also this past year that really would've also kind of [00:10:00] helped the landscape a little bit. Mary Carreon: Um. In terms of creating jobs, in terms of creating opportunities for funding, in terms of having more, uh, like the perception of safer money flow into the space and that, you know, those, those things didn't happen. For instance, the measure for in Massachusetts that didn't go through and just, you know, other things that didn't happen. Mary Carreon: However, there have been really good things too, in terms of, uh, legalization or various forms of legalization, and that's in New Mexico, so we can't, you know, forget that there, and we also can't forget just the movement happening in Colorado. So there are really great things happening and the, the movement is still moving forward. Mary Carreon: Everything is still going. It's just a little more difficult than maybe it could have been Joe Moore: right. Yeah. Amen. Amen. Yes. But also, we Mary Carreon: can't forget this censorship thing. The censorship thing is a horse shit. Sorry. I'm not sure if I'm allowed to cuss, but it is, [00:11:00] but it is Joe Moore: calling it out and it's important to say this stuff. Joe Moore: And you know, folks, if you want to support independent media, please consider supporting Doubleblind and psychedelics today. From a media perspective, absolutely. We wanna wanna put as much out as we can. Yes. The more supporters we have, the more we can help all of you understand what's happening and yes. Joe Moore: Getting you to stay safer. Mary Carreon: Yeah, absolutely. And that's the whole difficulty with the censorship is that psychedelics today, and Doubleblind for instance, but also Lucid News, also other, uh, other influencers, other creators in the space, they like. What all of us are doing is putting out information that is ultimately creating a safer user experience. Mary Carreon: And so with the censorship, we are not able to do so anymore, which creates actually a lot of danger. So. Yeah, it's, it's difficult. The censorship is difficult, and if you are somebody who posts about psychedelics, I know that you know this and I am preaching to the choir. Joe Moore: Yeah. So can you talk a [00:12:00] little bit about you all at Double Blind made a major shift in the last number of months towards, uh, kind of not necessarily putting everything out there and, and kind of like, um, actually I don't even know the language you use. Joe Moore: What's the, what's the language you use for the kind of model shift you took on? Mary Carreon: Yeah, I mean, it's great. It's been a wild shift. It's been a wild shift. Um, what we are currently doing is we went to a newsletter first model, which instead of just posting onto a website for everyone to see, and then, um, you know, hopefully getting SEO hits and also posting on their, then posting those stories onto Instagram and Facebook and Twitter, and hoping to get traffic through social media. Mary Carreon: Uh, we decided that that was no longer working for us because it wasn't, um, because the censorship is so bad on, on social media, like on Instagram, for instance, and Facebook and Twitter, well, less on Twitter, [00:13:00] but still, nonetheless on social media, the censorship is so bad. And also the censorship exists on Google. Mary Carreon: When you Google search how to take mushrooms, double blinds is not even on. You know, our guide is not on the first page. It's like, you know, way the heck, way the heck down there. Maybe page 2, 3, 4, 5. I don't know. But, um, the issue, the issue with that, or, or the reason why rather that it's that way is because Google is prioritizing, um, like rehabilitation centers for this information. Mary Carreon: And also they are prioritizing, uh, medical information. So, like WebMD for instance. And all of these organizations that Google is now prioritizing are u are, are, are, are organizations that see psychedelic use through the lens of addiction or through drug drug abuse. So [00:14:00] again, you know, I don't know, take it for how you want to, I'm not gonna say, I'm not gonna tell anybody like what is the right way to use their substances or whatever. Mary Carreon: However, it's really important to have the proper harm reduction resources and tools available. Uh, just readily available, not five pages down on a Google search. So anyways, all of that said double blind was our traffic was way down. And it was looking very bleak for a while. Just we were getting kicked off of Instagram. Mary Carreon: We weren't getting any traffic from social media onto our website, onto our stories. It was a, it was a vicious kind of cycle downward, and it wasn't really working. And there was a moment there where Doubleblind almost shut down as a result of these numbers because there's a, like you, a media company cannot sustain itself on really low page views as a result. Mary Carreon: So what we [00:15:00] decided to do was go to a newsletter first model, which relies on our email list. And basically we are sending out newsletters three days a week of new original content, mostly, uh, sometimes on Wednesdays we repost an SEO story or something like that. Um, to just to engage our audience and to work with our audience that way, and to like to actually engage our audience. Mary Carreon: I cannot emphasize that enough because on Instagram and on Facebook, we were only reaching like, I don't know, not that many people, like not that many people at all. And all of that really became obvious as soon as we started sending out to our email list. And as soon as we did that, it was wild. How many, how many views to the website and also how many just open like our open rate and our click through rate were showing how our audience was reacting to our content. Mary Carreon: In other words. [00:16:00] Social media was not a good, in, like, was not a good indicator of how our content was being received at all because people kind of weren't even receiving it. So going to the newsletter first model proved to be very beneficial for us and our numbers. And also just reaching our freaking audience, which we were barely doing, I guess, on social media, which is, which is wild, you know, for, for a, an account that has a lot of followers, I forget at this exact moment, but we have a ton, double blind, has a ton of followers on, on Instagram. Mary Carreon: We were, we, we get like 500 likes or, you know, maybe like. I don't know. If you're not looking at likes and you're looking at views, like sometimes we get like 16 K views, which, you know, seems good, but also compared to the amount of followers who follow us, it's like not really that great. And we're never reaching new, like a new audience. Mary Carreon: We're always reaching the same audience too, [00:17:00] which is interesting because even with our news, with our, with our email list, we are still reaching new people, which is, which says just how much more fluid that space is. Mm-hmm. And it's because it's, because censorship does not at least yet exist in our inboxes. Mary Carreon: And so therefore email is kind of like the underground, if you will, for this kind of content and this type of material journalism, et cetera. So, so yeah. So it, it, it has been a massive shift. It is required a lot of changes over at double blind. Everything has been very intense and crazy, but it has been absolutely worth it, and it's really exciting that we're still here. Mary Carreon: I'm so grateful that Double-Blind is still around, that we are still able to tell stories and that we are still able to work with writers and nurture writers and nurture the storytelling in this space because it needs to evolve just the same way that the industry and the [00:18:00] culture and everything else is evolving. Joe Moore: Yeah, I think, I think you're spot on like the, when I watch our Instagram account, like, um, I haven't seen the number change from 107 K for two years. Mary Carreon: Absolutely. Same. And, um, same. Joe Moore: Yeah. And you know, I think, I think there's certain kinds of content that could do fine. I think, uh, psychedelic attorney, Robert Rush put up a comment, um, in response to Jack Coline's account getting taken down, um, that had some good analysis, um. Joe Moore: Of the situation. Go ahead. You had No, Mary Carreon: no, I'm just like, you know, I can't, when, when journalists are getting kicked off of these, of these platforms for their stories, for their reported stories, that's like, that is a massive red flag. And that's all I have to say. I mean, we could go into more, more details on that, but that is a [00:19:00] huge red flag. Joe Moore: Mm-hmm. Yeah. Um, for sure. The, I, yeah. And like I'm sure he'll get it back. I'm sure that's not for good, but I think he did. Okay, great. Mary Carreon: I think he did. Yeah. Yeah, I think he did. Joe Moore: Yeah. So thank you. Shout out to Jack. Yeah, thanks Jack. Um, and I think, you know, there's, there's no one with that kind of energy out there. Joe Moore: Um, and I'm excited to see what happens over time with him. Yeah. How he'll unfold. Absolutely unfold. Oh yeah. It's like, um. Crushing the beat. Mary Carreon: Oh yeah, absolutely. Especially the political, the political beat. Like, there's no, there's few people who are really tackling that specific sector, which is like mm-hmm. Mary Carreon: So exciting for a journalist. Joe Moore: Yeah. Um, so model shifting, like we all have to like, adapt in new ways. Kyle and I are still trying to figure out what we're gonna do. Like maybe it is newsletter first. Like I, I realized that I hadn't been writing for [00:20:00] years, which is problematic, um, in that like, I have a lot of things to say. Mary Carreon: Totally. Joe Moore: And nobody got to hear it. Um, so I started a substack, which I had complicated feelings about honestly. 'cause it's just another. Rich person's platform that I'm, you know, helping them get Andreessen money or whatever. And, you know, so I'm gonna play lightly there, but I will post here and there. Um, I'm just trying to figure it all out, you know, like I've put up a couple articles like this GLP one and Mushrooms article. Mary Carreon: I saw that. I saw that. Really? And honestly, that's a really, like, it's so weird, but I don't, like, it's such a weird little thing that's happening in the space. I wonder, yeah, I wonder, I wonder how that is going to evolve. It's um, you know, a lot of people, I, I briefly kind of wrote about, um, psychedelics and the GLP, is that what it is? Mary Carreon: GLP one. Joe Moore: GLP one. Say Ozempic. Yeah, just, yeah, Ozempic. Yeah, exactly. Mary Carreon: Yeah, exactly. I wrote about [00:21:00] that briefly last year and there were a bunch of people like obviously horrified, which it is kind of horrifying, but also there's a bunch of people who believe that it is extremely cutting edge, which it also is. Mary Carreon: So it's really interesting, really fascinating. Joe Moore: Yeah. Um, I remember Bernie Sanders saying like, if this drug gets as much traction as it needs to, it will bankrupt Medicaid. I guess that's not really a problem anymore. Um, but, but, uh, but so like naming it real quick, like it changed the way we had to digest things, therefore, like mushrooms get digested differently and, um, some people don't respond in the expected ways. Joe Moore: And then there was some follow up, oh, we, in the regulated model, we just do lemon tech. And then I was like, is that legal in the regulated model? And I, I don't know the answer still. Mm-hmm. Like there was a couple things, you know, if users know to do it, you know, I don't, I don't totally understand the regulated model's so strange in Oregon, Colorado, that like, we really need a couple lawyers opinions. Joe Moore: Right. I think Mary Carreon: yes, of course Joe Moore: the lawyers just gave it a [00:22:00] thumbs up. They didn't even comment on the post, which is, laughs: thanks guys. Um, Joe Moore: but you know, laughs: yeah. You're like, thank you. Joe Moore: Thanks and diversity of opinions. So yeah, there's that. And like GLP ones are so interesting in that they're, one friend reached out and said she's using it in a microdose format for chronic neuroinflammation, which I had never heard of before. Joe Moore: Whoa. And um, I think, you know, articles like that, my intent was to just say, Hey, researchers yet another thing to look at. Like, there's no end to what we need to be looking at. Abso Mary Carreon: Oh, absolutely, absolutely. You know, reporting on this space actually taught me that there's so much just in general that isn't being researched, whether that's in this space, but also beyond and how, um, yeah, just how behind, actually, maybe not, maybe behind isn't the right word, but it kind of feels from my novice and from my novice place in the, in the world and [00:23:00] understanding research, it's. Mary Carreon: Hard for me to see it as anything, but being behind in the research that we all really need, that's really going to benefit humanity. But also, you know, I get that it's because of funding and politics and whatever, whatever, you know, we can go on for days on all of that. Joe Moore: What's the real reason? What's the real reason? Joe Moore: Well, drug war. Mary Carreon: Yeah. Well, yeah, definitely the drug war. Nixon. Yeah. Yes, yes, definitely the drug war. Yeah. I mean, and just the fact that even all of the drug research that happens is, again, through the lens of addiction and drug abuse, so Joe Moore: mm-hmm. Hard to right. Yeah. Um, like ni a is obviously really ridiculous and, and the way they approach this stuff, and Carl Hart illustrates that well, and, Mary Carreon: oh man, yes, he does. Joe Moore: Like, I think Fadiman's lab in Palo Alto got shut down, like 67, 66 or 67, and like that's, you know, that was one of the later ones, Mary Carreon: right? And, Joe Moore: and like, Mary Carreon: and here we are. Joe Moore: The amount of suffering that could have been alleviated if we [00:24:00] had not done this is. Incalculable. Um, yes. Yes. Yeah. Mary Carreon: I mean the, yeah, it's hard to say exactly how specifically it would be different, but it's difficult to also not think that the fentanyl crisis and the opioid addiction rate and situation that is currently like plaguing the, the world, but particularly the United States, it's hard to think that it wouldn't be, like, it wouldn't be a different scenario altogether. Joe Moore: Right, right. Absolutely. Um, and it's, um, it's interesting to speculate about, right? Like Yeah. Yes. Where would we be? And Mary Carreon: I know, I know, I know, I know it is speculation. Absolutely. But it's like hard, as I said, it's hard not to think that things would be different. Joe Moore: Right. Right. Um, I like, there's two kind of quotes, like, um, not, this one's not really a quote. Joe Moore: Like, we haven't really had a [00:25:00] blockbuster psychiatric med since Prozac, and I think that was in the eighties or early nineties, which is terrifying. And then, um, I think this guy's name is James Hillman. He is kinda like a Jungian, um, educator and I think the title of one of his books is, we're a hundred Years Into Psychotherapy and the World is Still a Mess. Joe Moore: And I think like those two things are like, okay, so two different very white people approaches didn't go very far. Yes. Um, yes and laughs: mm-hmm. Joe Moore: Thankfully, I think a lot of people are seeing that. Mm-hmm. Um, finally and kind of putting energy into different ways. Um, Mary Carreon: yeah. Absolutely. I think, yeah, I mean, we need to be exploring the other options at this point because what is currently happening isn't working on many fronts, but including in terms of mental health especially. Mary Carreon: So mm-hmm. We gotta get going. Right? We [00:26:00] gotta get moving. Geez. Joe Moore: Have you all, have you all seen much of the information around chronic pain treatments? Like I'm, I'm a founding board member with the Psychedelics and Pain Association, which has a really fun project. Oh, that's interesting. Mary Carreon: Um, I've seen some of the studies around that and it's endlessly fascinating for obvious, for obvious reasons. Mary Carreon: I, um, we have a writer who's been working for a long time on a story, uh, about the chronic pain that has since. Become an issue for this, for her, for the writer. Mm-hmm. Um, since she had COVID. Mm-hmm. Since, since she is just like, COVID was the onset basically of this chronic pain. And, um, there she attended a psychedelics in pain, chronic pain conference and, uh, that has pretty much like, changed her world. Mary Carreon: Um, well, in terms of just the information that's out there, not necessarily that she's painless, but it's just, you know, offering a, a brand new, a brand new road, a brand new path that is giving her, [00:27:00] um, relief on days when the pain is, uh, substantial. laughs: Yeah. Mary Carreon: So that's interesting. And a lot of people are experiencing that as well. Joe Moore: Mm-hmm. So there's, there's a really cool set of overlap between the COVID researchers, long COVID researchers and the chronic pain people. 'cause there is Yes. This new science of pain that's yes. Our group, PPA put out like a really robust kind of training, um, for clinicians and researchers and even patients to get more educated. Joe Moore: And we're, we're getting, um, kind of boostered by cluster busters and we're kind of leveraging a lot of what they've done. Mary Carreon: Wait, what is a cluster buster? Joe Moore: Oh gosh. Um, so they're a 5 0 1 C3. Okay. Started with Bob Wald. Okay. Bob Wald is a cluster headache survivor. Oh, oh, oh, Mary Carreon: okay. Got it. Got it. Yes. So they're Joe Moore: the charity that, um, has been really championing, um, cluster headache research because they found a protocol [00:28:00] with mushrooms. Joe Moore: Yes, yes, yes. To eliminate. Mm-hmm. Yeah. Um, this really great, I Mary Carreon: love that. Joe Moore: This really great book was written by a Rutgers, um, I think medical sociologist or anthropologist psychedelic. Love laughs: that. Joe Moore: Joanna Kempner. Cool. Um, and it kind of talks about the whole, um, cluster busters saga, and it was, it was pretty cool. Joe Moore: Nice. So they've been at it for about as long as maps. Um, oh wow. Maybe a little earlier. Maybe a little later. Mary Carreon: I love that. Cool. I mean, yeah, that's really great. That's really great. Joe Moore: So we're copying their playbook in a lot of ways and Cool. We about to be our own 5 0 1 C3 and, um, nice. And that should be really fun. Joe Moore: And, uh, the next conference is coming up at the end of next month if people wanna check that out. Psychedelic. Nice. Mary Carreon: Nice, nice, nice. Cool. Joe Moore: Yeah, so that, like, how I leaned into that was not only did I get a lot of help from chronic pain with psychedelics and going to Phish shows and whatever, um, you know, I, and overuse for sure helped me somehow. Joe Moore: [00:29:00] Um, God bless. Yeah. But I, I like it because it breaks us out of the psychiatry only frame for psychedelics. Mm. And starts to make space for other categories. Mm-hmm. Is one of the bigger reasons I like it. Mary Carreon: Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Yes. Yes. Which, like, we need to be, we need to, we, no one else is gonna do it for us. We like the people in the space who are finding new uses for these substances need to be creating those, those pathways and those new niches for people to then begin studying, et cetera, and exploring and yeah. Mary Carreon: Making, making a proper avenue for, Joe Moore: right, right. And, you know, um, I don't know that this is a Maha thing, so No, I'm going there, I guess, but like, how do we kind of face squarely America and the world's drinking problems? Not [00:30:00] knowing what we know now about alcohol, you know what I mean? And then like, what are the alternatives? Joe Moore: You know, some, some writers out there on substack are very firm that everybody needs to not do any substance. And like all psychedelics are super bad and drugs are evil, you know, famous sub stackers that I won't name. But you know, like what is the alternative? Like, I, like we have to have something beyond alcohol. Joe Moore: And I think you've found some cannabis helpful for that. Mary Carreon: Yeah, I, you know, it's, it's interesting because it's, there are, there's definitely an argument to be made for the power of these substances in helping, I don't wanna, I don't wanna say curb, but definitely reduce the symptoms of, uh, wanting to use or to drink or to consume a specific substance. Mary Carreon: There's obviously there is an argument to be made. There are, there is ano another camp of people who are kind [00:31:00] of in the, in the, in the, in the realm of using a drug to get off of a drug isn't how you do it. However, and, and I do, it depends on the individual. It depends on the individual and the, and how that person is engaging with their own addiction. Mary Carreon: I think for whether or not the substances work, like whether psychedelics work to help somebody kind of get off of alcohol or get off of cocaine or stop using opioids or, you know, et cetera. Mm-hmm. However, I think like, when the situation is so dire, we need to be trying everything. And if that means, like, if, like, you know, if you look at the studies for like smoking cessation or alcohol use, mushrooms do help, psilocybin does help with that. Mary Carreon: Mm-hmm. But, you know, there's, there's a lot of, there's a lot of things that also need to happen. There's a lot of things that also need to happen in order for those, uh, that relief to maintain and to stick and to, uh, really guide [00:32:00] somebody off of those substances. Mm-hmm. It's not just the substance itself. Joe Moore: Right. So I'm, I'm explicitly talking like recreational alternatives, right. Like how do I Yeah. On per minute, like, am Anitas becoming helpful? Yeah, yeah. Are helpful and Yeah. Yeah. I think like even, um, normal. What we might call like normal American alcohol use. Like Yeah. That's still like, quite carcinogenic and like, um, absolutely. Joe Moore: We're kind of trying to spend less as a country on cancer treatments, which I hope is true. Then how do we, how do we develop things that are, you know, not just abstinence only programs, which we know for sure aren't great. Mary Carreon: Yeah. They don't work. Yeah. I don't, it's, it's difficult. Mm-hmm. It's difficult to say. Mary Carreon: I mean mm-hmm. I don't know. Obviously I, I, well, maybe it's not obvious at all for people who don't know me, but, you know, I exist in a, I exist in, in a world where recreational use is like, it's like hard to define what recreational use is because if we are using this, if we are using mushrooms or LSD even, or MDMA, [00:33:00] you know, there are so many, there's a lot of the therapy that can happen through the use of these substances, even if we're not doing it, you know, with a blindfold on or whatever and yeah, I think like. Mary Carreon: There is a decent swap that can happen if you, if you are somebody who doesn't wanna be, you know, having like three beers a night, or if you are somebody who's like, you know, maybe not trying to have like a bottle of wine at a night or something like that, you know, because like Americans drink a lot and a lot of the way that we drink is, um, you know, like we don't see it as alcoholism. Mary Carreon: Even though it could be, it could be that's like a difficult Joe Moore: potentially subclinical, but right there. Mary Carreon: Um, yeah. Yeah. It's like, you know, it's, um, we don't see it as that because everybody, a lot of people, not everybody, but a lot of people drink like that, if that makes sense. If you know mm-hmm. If you, if you get what I'm, if you get what I'm saying. Mary Carreon: So, you know, I do think that there's a lot of benefit that, I don't [00:34:00] know, having, like a, having a mushroom, having a mushroom experience can really help. Or sometimes even like low dose, low doses of mushrooms can also really help with, like, with the. Desire to reach for a drink. Yeah, totally. And, and AMS as well. Mary Carreon: I know that that's also helping people a lot too. And again, outside of the clinical framework. Joe Moore: Yeah. I'm, a lot of people project on me that I'm just like constantly doing everything all the time and I'm, I'm the most sober I've been since high school. You know, like it's bonkers that like Yeah. Um, and you know, probably the healthiest event since high school too. Joe Moore: Yeah. But it's fa it's fascinating that like, you know, psychedelics kind of helped get here and even if it was like For sure something that didn't look like therapy. Yeah, Mary Carreon: yeah, yeah, yeah. Absolutely. Absolutely. Yeah. I, I think, I think most of us here in this space are getting projected on as to like, you know, being like what Normies would consider druggies or something, or that we are just like, you know, high all the time. Mary Carreon: Um, [00:35:00] I know that that is definitely something that I face regularly, like out in the world. Um, but, you know, I would also, I would also argue that. Uh, like mushrooms have completely altered my approach to health, my approach to mental health, and not even having to consume that, you know, that substance in order or that, you know, that fun fungi, in order for me to like tap into taking care of my mental health or approaching better, uh, food options, et cetera. Mary Carreon: It's kind of like what these, it's like how the mushrooms continue to help you even after you have taken them. Like the messages still keep coming through if you work with them in that capacity. Right. And yeah, and also same with, same with LSD too. LSD has also kind my experiences with that have also guided me towards a healthier path as well. Mary Carreon: I, I understand that maybe for some people it's not that way, but, um, for me that substance is a medicine as well, [00:36:00] or it can be. Joe Moore: Yeah. Um, so. What are, what are some things popping up these days about like US drug policy that's like getting exciting for you? Like, are you feeling feeling like a looming optimism about a, a major shift? Joe Moore: Are you kind of like cautiously optimistic with some of the weird kind of mandatory minimum stuff that's coming up or? Mary Carreon: Yeah. Yeah. I mean, I know that there was a huge, a, a pretty huge shift over at the DEA and I wish I remembered, I wish I remembered his name. The new guy who's now, I believe the head of the DEA, I don't know enough information about it to really feel a way. Mary Carreon: However, I don't think that he's necessarily going to be serving us as a community here, uh, in the psychedelic space. I, you know, I just don't think that that's something that we can ever depend on with the DEA. Uh, I also don't think that [00:37:00] the DEA is necessarily going to be. All that helpful to cannabis, like the cannabis space either. Mary Carreon: Um, I know that, that Trump keeps kind of discussing or, or dangling a carrot around the rescheduling of cannabis. Um, for, he's been, he's been, but he's doing it a lot more now. He's been talking about it more recently. Uh, he says like, in the next like couple weeks that he's going to have some kind of decision around that, allegedly. Mary Carreon: But we will see also, I'm not sure that it's going to necessarily help anybody if we reschedule two. Uh, what from schedule one to schedule th two, three, schedule three. Joe Moore: Either way it's like not that useful. Right. Exactly. Mary Carreon: Yeah. Yeah, exactly. It's, um, just going to probably cause a lot more red tape and a lot of confusion for the state rec markets. Mary Carreon: So it's like something that we, it's like only ridden with unintentional, unintentional consequences. Unintended consequences. Mm-hmm. Because no one knows how it's really going to [00:38:00] impact anything, um, if, if at all. But I don't know. It's hard, it's hard to imagine that there won't be any, uh, like more complex regulatory issues for business owners and also probably consumers as well. Joe Moore: Hmm. Yeah. This guy's name's Terry Cole. Mary Carreon: Oh, the new DEA guy. Joe Moore: Yeah. Um, I don't know much about him. Terry. Yeah. Terry, I would love to chat. Mary Carreon: Yeah. Terry, let's talk. I'm sure your people Joe Moore: are watching. Yeah. So like, just let him know. We wanna chat. Yeah. We'll come to DC and chat it out. Um, yeah. It's, um, but yeah, I, Carl Hart's solution to me makes like almost most of the sense in the world to just end the scheduling system Absolutely. Joe Moore: And start building some sort of infrastructure to keep people safe. That's clearly not what we have today. Mary Carreon: No. But building an infrastructure around the health and wellness and uh, safety of [00:39:00] people is the exact opposite system that we have currently right now. Because also the scheduling system has a lot to do with the incarceration in the United States and the criminal just, or the criminal system. Mary Carreon: So, so yeah, like we can't disentangle the two really. Joe Moore: It just started, um, I feel negligent on this. Uh, synergetic press put out a book like a year or two ago called Body Autonomy. Mm-hmm. Um, did that one come across your desk at all? Mm-hmm. No. I wish basically contributed. Oh, nice. A number of people. So it's both like, um. Joe Moore: Drug policy commentary and then like sex work commentary. Oh, nice. And it was like high level, like love that really, really incredible love that detailed science based conversations, which is not what we have around this. Like, that doesn't make me feel good. So you should go to jail kind of stuff. Or like, I'm gonna humiliate you for real though. Joe Moore: Ticket. Yeah, Mary Carreon: yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Oh God. Uh, when you think about it like that, it just really also shows [00:40:00] just the uh, um, the level at which religion has also kind of fundamentally infused itself into the scheduling system, but also our laws, you know, like what you just said, this like, shame-based, I'm going to embarrass you and make you into a criminal when you know actually you are a law for the most part, a law abiding citizen, with the exception of this one thing that you're doing for. Mary Carreon: A, your survival and or your, like, your feeling good, wanting to feel good addressing pain. Um, there's a large, uh, like noise coming out of the front yard of my house right now. Hold on. Just a, it doesn't sound too bad. It doesn't sound too bad. Okay. Okay, good. Not at all. Not at all. Okay. Yeah, I had Joe Moore: people working on my roof all day and somehow it worked out. Joe Moore: Oh, good. Um, yeah. Um, yeah, it's, it's fascinating and I, I've been coming around like, I, I identify as politically confused, [00:41:00] um, and I feel like it's the most honest way I can be. Um, Mary Carreon: I am also politically confused these days, impossible to align with any, uh, party or group currently in existence at this exact juncture in American history. Joe Moore: I can't find any that I want to throw my dice in with. Nah. This idea of like fucking way being. Like what is the most humane way to do government as a way it's been put to me recently. And that's interesting. So it comes down to like coercion, are we caring for people, things like that. And um, I don't think we're doing it in a super humane way right now. Mary Carreon: Um, we, yeah, I am pretty sure that even if there was, I mean, I think that even if we looked at the data, the data would support that we are not doing it in a humane way. Joe Moore: So Mary Carreon: unfortunately, and Joe Moore: you know, this whole tech thing, like the tech oligarch thing, you kind of dropped at the beginning and I think it's worth bringing that back because we're, we're on all [00:42:00] these tech platforms. Joe Moore: Like that's kind of like how we're transmitting it to people who are participating in these other platforms and like, you know, it's not all meta. I did turn on my personal Facebook, so everybody's watching it there. I hope. Um, see if that count gets, Mary Carreon: um, Joe Moore: but you know, this idea that a certain number of private corporations kind of control. Joe Moore: A huge portion of rhetoric. Um, and you know, I think we probably got Whiffs of this when Bezos bought Washington Post and then Yes. You know, Musk with X and like yes. You know, is this kind of a bunch of people who don't necessarily care about this topic and the way we do, and they're like in larger topics too about humane government and like, you know, moving things in good directions. Joe Moore: Um, I don't know, thoughts on that rift there as it relates to anything you, wherever you wanna go. Yeah. Mary Carreon: Yeah. I mean, I don't think that they are looking at, I don't think that they are looking [00:43:00] at it the way that we are. I don't think that they can see it from their vantage point. Um, I think that like, in the, in a similar way that so many CEOs who run businesses have no fucking clue about what's actually happening in their businesses and the actual workers and, and employees of their businesses can tell them in more detail. Mary Carreon: Far more detail about what's actually happening on the, on the floor of their own business. Uh, I think that it is something like that. However, that's not to say that, you know, these, these CEOs who employ people who build the A algorithm are obviously guided to create the limitations on us as people who speak about drugs, et cetera, and are creating a algorithm that ultimately is looking at things in a very blanket way in terms of, uh, like we're probably seen on the same level as like drug dealers, if that makes sense. Mary Carreon: Which is obviously a much, you know, there's, [00:44:00] it's a very different thing. Um, so, you know, there's like these CEOs are giving directions to their employees to ultimately create systems that harm. Information flow and inform and, and like the information health of, of platforms and of just people in general. Mary Carreon: So it's hard to say because there's nuance there, obviously, but I would bet you that someone like Elon Musk doesn't really have a full grasp as to the, the nuances and details of what's even happening within, on the ground floor of his businesses. Because that's like, not how CEOs in America run, run, and operate. Mary Carreon: They're stupid companies. So, so yeah. And I feel like that, like, that's across the board, like that's across the board. That's how I, that's probably how Zuck is operating with Meta and Facebook, et cetera. And yeah, just likewise and across, across the whole, [00:45:00] across the whole spectrum. Joe Moore: Mm-hmm. Yeah. And I think, um, a thing. Joe Moore: Then as the people like, we need to keep looking at how can we keep each other informed. And that's kind of circling back to drug journalism like we do and like, um, other, other sorts of journalism that doesn't really get the press it deserves. Right. And I've been getting far more content that I find more valuable off of tragically back on Zucks platform like IG is getting me so much interesting content from around the world that no major outlet's covering. Mary Carreon: That's so interesting. Like what? Like what would you say? Joe Moore: Oh, um, uh, certain, um, violent situations overseas. Oh, oh, got it. Yeah, yeah, yeah. And, um, you know, that America's paying for, so like, you know, I just don't love that I don't have a good, you know, journalistic source I can [00:46:00] point to, to say, hey, like right. Joe Moore: These writers with names, with addresses, like, and offices here. Yes. You know, they did the work and they're held, you know, they're ethical journalists, so yes. You can trust them. Right. You know what I mean? Yes, Mary Carreon: yes. Yeah, yeah, yeah. I mean, all of this makes everything so much harder for determining, like, the censorship specifically makes it so much harder for the people to determine like, what's real, what's not. Mary Carreon: Because, because of exactly what you just said. Mm-hmm. Like, you know, we are, we are basically what that means, like what is required of the people and people who are consuming information is becoming a smart consumer and being able to determine what's real, what's not. How can we trust this individual? Mary Carreon: How can we not, which isn't analysis process that all of us need to be sharpening every single day, especially with the advent of AI and, uh, how quickly this, this type of content is coming at all of us. Like, especially if you're on TikTok, which many of us are, you know, like information comes flying at you 3000 miles an hour, and it's sometimes [00:47:00] really difficult to determine what's real, what's not, because AI is. Mary Carreon: AI is not where it's going to be, and it still is in its nascent phase. However, it's still pretty fucking good and it's still very confusing on there. So, so again, like the media literacy of the people needs to be sharpened every single day. We cannot be on there, we cannot be on the internet existing. Mary Carreon: That everything that we are seeing is real. Whether that's about, you know, these, um, the violence overseas, uh, happening at the hands of the United States, whether that is, uh, even drug information like, you know, et cetera, all of all of it. Or just like news about something happening at Yellowstone National Park or something that is happening in the, uh, at like. Mary Carreon: Um, like potential riots also happening at protests in downtown la, et cetera. Like all, all of it, we need to be so careful. And I think what that also, like, one way that [00:48:00] we can adjust and begin to develop our media literacy skills is talking to people maybe who are there, reaching out to people who are saying that they were there and asking them questions, and also sussing that out. Mary Carreon: You know, obviously we can't do that for all situations, but definitely some of them. Joe Moore: Yeah, absolutely. Like, Joe Moore: um, a quick pivot. Mm-hmm. Were you at PS 25? Mary Carreon: Yes, I was. What did I think? Uh, you know, I, I was running around like crazy at this one. I felt like I didn't even have a second to breathe and I feel like I didn't even have a second to really see anybody. I was like, worry. I was jumping from one stage to the next. Mary Carreon: However, I would say, uh, one of, one of the things that I have said and how I felt about it was that I felt that this, this event was smaller than it was two years ago. And I preferred that I preferred the reduction in size just because it was, uh, less over, less overwhelming [00:49:00] in an, in an already very overwhelming event. Mary Carreon: Um, but I thought that from the panels that I did see that everyone did a really great job. I thought that maps, you know, it's impressive that maps can put on an event like that. Um, I also was very cognizant that the suits were there in full effect and, uh, you know, but that's not unusual. That's how it was last time as well. Mary Carreon: And, um, I felt that there was Mary Carreon: a, uh, like the, the, the level of excitement and the level of like opportunity and pro, like the prosperous. The like, prospect of prosperity coming down the pipeline like tomorrow, you know, kind of vibe was different than last time. Mm-hmm. Which that was very present at the one, two years ago, uh, which was the last PS psychedelic science. Mary Carreon: Yeah. Um, anyways. Yeah. But it was, you know, it was really nice to see everybody. [00:50:00] I feel like in-person events is a great way for everybody in the psychedelic space to be interacting with each other instead of like keyboard warrioring against each other, you know, uh, over the computer and over the internet. Mary Carreon: I think that, um, yeah, uh, being in person is better than being fighting each other over the internet, so, yeah. Joe Moore: Mm-hmm. People seem to be a little bit more civil in person. Mary Carreon: Exactly. Exactly. Mm-hmm. And I think that that is something that we all need to be considering more often, and also inviting people from across the aisle to your events and creating peace, because in person it's a little different than it is. Mary Carreon: When you have the opportunity to, uh, yeah, like keyboard attack someone over the internet, it's like, yeah. It's just so silly. So silly. We look like fools. Like we look like absolute idiots doing that. And you know what? I cannot sit here and say that I haven't looked like an idiot. So, you know, it's like I'm not, I'm not talking from like a high horse over here, but, but you know, it's like, it's [00:51:00] better when it's in person. Mary Carreon: I feel like there's like more civil engagements that we can all have. Joe Moore: It's practice, you know? Yeah. We're learning. Yeah. We are. We should be learning, including us, and yes, of course. Um, I, I play a subtler game these days and, uh, you know, I, I, I, it's better when we all look a lot better in my opinion, because yes, we can inform policy decisions, we can be the ones helping inform really important things about how these things should get implemented and absolutely right. Joe Moore: Like, Mary Carreon: absolutely. Yeah, it does. It does. Nobody, any service, especially these medicines, especially these sacraments, especially these plants, these molecules, et cetera, if we are all sitting here fighting each other and like calling each other names and trying to dunk on one another, when like in reality, we are also all kind of pushing for the same thing more or less. Joe Moore: Mm-hmm. So a thing that [00:52:00] I, it's a, it's kind of a, I, I had a great time at PS 25. I have no, no real complaints. I just wish I had more time. Yeah, same. Um, same. Yeah. Our booth was so busy. It was so fun. Just good. And it was like, good. I, I know. It was really good. I'm trying to say it out loud. I get to talk at the conference before Rick did. laughs: Oh, oh, Joe Moore: the morning show they put us on at like seven 30 in the morning or something crazy. Oh my god. It was early. I dunno if it was seven 30. Mary Carreon: That's so early. That's so early. Joe Moore: Yeah, right. Like that's crazy. I got zero nightlife in That's okay. Um, I was not, I was there for work. Yeah, Mary Carreon: yeah. I was Joe Moore: jealous. I didn't party, but you know, whatever. Joe Moore: Yeah, yeah. Mary Carreon: I did not party this time really in the same way that I did at PS 20. Was it 2023? Joe Moore: 23, yeah. 23. I only stay up till 11 one night in 23. Nice. Mary Carreon: Okay. Um, okay. Joe Moore: So I behaved, I have a pattern of behaving. 'cause I like That's good. I'm so bent outta shape inside going into these things. I'm like, I know, I know. Joe Moore: And, and I'm like, oh, all [00:53:00] my friends are gonna be there. It's gonna be great. And then it's like, yeah. It's mostly friends and only a little bit of stress. Yeah. Um, yeah. Yeah, Mary Carreon: yeah. I had a, I had a great time. It was really good seeing everybody again. Like you, I wish that I had more time with people. Like there are people that I like didn't even see who are my friends, Joe Moore: so, which Yeah. Joe Moore: Which is sad. That's like a subtext in, in like the notes coming away from 25. Is that the, um, American Right, if we wanna call it that, is very interested in this stuff. Oh yeah. Like the Texas establishment. Oh yeah. Um, the Texas contingent, right? They're deep. They're real deep. Mm-hmm. I have, um, Mary Carreon: let's talk about that more. Mary Carreon: Yeah. So Joe Moore: it's optimistic in, in some sense that psychedelic science is getting funded more. By states. 'cause the feds aren't stepping up. Right. I love that. Right. Yeah. Like, Hey feds, look what we can do. And you can't somehow, and [00:54:00] then, um, we'll see if state rights stays around for a while longer, maybe, maybe not. Joe Moore: And then the other part is like, is there a slippery slope given the rhetoric around addiction and the rise in interest in iboga for compulsory addiction treatment with psychedelics or, or compulsory mental health treatments with psychedelics because of the recent, it's illegal to be a person without housing. Joe Moore: Um, and you're gonna get put in treatment. Mm. Like, that's now a thing. So like, I don't know, I don't think forced treatment's good at all. I, and I don't think like, um, like the data is something like 15% effective, maybe less. Right. Right. It's not a good use of money. I don't know. We're, let's, I. You can go there if you want, and riff on that, or if you wanna talk about like, Texas, um, Arizona more generally. Mary Carreon: Yeah. I mean, I will just say this, I also don't really believe that forced treatment is like good, you [00:55:00] know, data Joe Moore: says it's bad. Mary Carreon: Yeah. Yeah. I also, yeah, I mean, it's like, I don't know. Yeah, that's, it's complex. It's a complex issue. I also don't think it's good, but I also do think that we need a much better framework and foundation for like, if people do want the help, helping them get it. Mary Carreon: Much more easily and in a way that's going to be beneficial for them. Um, and I don't think that that system or that pathway currently exists as we saw in, uh, with, with, um, measure 1 0 9 and the failure of measure 1 0 9 or, or was it Measure 1 0 10, 1 10, measure one 10 in Oregon. Joe Moore: But did you see the response yesterday or two days ago? Joe Moore: No, I didn't. No, I didn't. I'll I'll send it to you later. Okay. So the university did the research, um, Portland State University did the research Yes. And said, Hey, look, there was actually 20 other things that were higher priority. Like that actually influenced this increase in overdoses, not our law. Mary Carreon: Right. Mary Carreon: Yes. It was really COVID for Okay. [00:56:00] Like for, yeah. Right. Absolutely. Also, there was not a. Like there was not a framework in place that allowed people to get off the street should they want to, or you know, like, like you just can't really have a, all drugs are legal, or small amounts of drugs are legal without also offering or creating a structure for people to get help. Mary Carreon: That, that's, you can't do one without the other. Unfortunately. That's just like a, that's faulty from the start. So that's all I'll really say about that. And I don't think that that had fully been implemented yet, even though it was something that wasn't ideal for the, um, for the, for the measure. And I believe it was measure one 10, not measure 1 0 9, to be clear. Mary Carreon: Measure one 10. Um, yes, but confirmed one 10 confirmed one 10, yes. Mm-hmm. Um, but yeah, uh, that's, you know, that's kind of what I'll say. That's what I'll, that's where I'll leave that portion. Mm-hmm. You know? Uh, but yeah, forced treatment. I don't know. [00:57:00] We can't be forcing, forcing people to do stuff like that. Mary Carreon: I don't know. It's not gonna, it's, yeah, it doesn't seem Joe Moore: very humane. Mary Carreon: Yeah. No. And it also probably isn't gonna work, so, Joe Moore: right. Like, if we're being conservative with money, like, I like tote, like to put on Republican boots once in a while and say like, what does this feel like? And then say like, okay, if we're trying to spend money smartly, like where do we actually get where we want to be? Joe Moore: And then sometimes I put on my cross and I'm like, okay, if I'm trying to be Christian, like where is the most, like, what is the most Christian behavior here in terms of like, what would the, you know, buddy Jesus want to do? And I'm just like, okay, cool. Like, that doesn't seem right. Like those things don't seem to align. Joe Moore: And when we can find like compassionate and efficient things, like isn't that the path? Um, Mary Carreon: compassionate and t. Yeah, even, I don't know, I don't know if it looks lefty these days, but Yeah, I know what you mean. Yeah, I know what you mean. I know what you mean. Yeah. [00:58:00] Yeah. Um, yeah, it's complicated. It's complicated, you know, but going back, kind of, kind of pivoting and going back to what you were talking about in regards to the subtext, some of the subtext of like, you know, where psychedelic medicine is currently getting its most funding. Mary Carreon: You know, I do believe that that was an undercurrent at psychedelic science. It was the, the iboga conversation. And there's, there's a lot, there's a lot happening with the Iboga conversation and the Iboga conversation and, um, I am really trying to be open to listening to everyone's messages that are currently involved in. Mary Carreon: That rise of that medicine right now? Um, obviously, yeah, we will see, we'll see how it goes. There's obviously a lot of people who believe that this is not the right move, uh, just because there's been no discussions with, uh, the Wii people of West Africa and, you know, because of [00:59:00] that, like we are not talking to the indigenous people about how we are using their medicine, um, or medicine that does like that comes from, that comes from Africa. Mary Carreon: Um, also with that, I know that there is a massive just devastating opioid crisis here that we need to do something about and drug crisis that we need to be helping with. And this medicine is something that can really, really, really help. Um, I find it absolutely fascinating that the right is the most interested party in moving all of this forward, like psychedelic medicine forward. Mary Carreon: And I, I currently have my popcorn and I am watching and I am eating it, and I am going to witness whatever goes down. Um, but I'm, I, I hope that, uh, things are moving in a way that is going to be beneficial for the people and also not completely leave behind the indigenous communities where this medicine comes from. Joe Moore: [01:00:00] Mm-hmm. Mary Carreon: We'll see how it goes. Yeah. We'll see how it goes. We'll see how it goes. It Joe Moore: would be lovely if we can figure it out. Um, I know, and I think, uh, Lucy Walker has a film coming out on Iboga. Mm. I got to see it at Aspen, um, symposium last summer, and it was really good. Mm. So I'm sure it'll be cut different, but it's so good and it tells that story. Joe Moore: Okay. Um, in a helpful way. I'm gonna, I, yeah. I always say I'm gonna do this. I'm like, if I have space, maybe I'll be able to email her and see if we can screen it in Colorado. But it's like a brilliant film. Yeah. Cool. This whole reciprocity conversation is interesting and challenging. And so challenging being one of the few countries that did not sign onto the Nagoya protocol. Joe Moore: Absolutely. We're not legally bound, you know, some countries are Mary Carreon: I know. Yes, yes, yes. So Joe Moore: we're, you know, how do we do that? How do we do that skillfully? We still haven't done it with, um, first Nations folks around their [01:01:00] substances. Um, I think mushrooms are a little flexible and account of them being global, um, from Africa to Ireland and beyond. Joe Moore: And, but you know, that's, we still want to give a nod to the people in Mexico for sure. Yeah, absolutely. Absolutely. Yeah. Um, yeah. Yeah, it's, I had some fun commentary there that I would love to flesh out someday. Uh, but yeah, it's not for today. Mary Carreon: Yeah, yeah, yeah. Um, there's, yeah, there's obviously, there's obviously a lot with the conversation of reciprocity here and, um, I know, I, I don't know. Mary Carreon: I, I, what I do know is that we need to be listening to the indigenous people, not just listening to them second, like secondhand or listening to them, uh, once we have moved something forward, like actually consulting with them as the process goes. And that, you know, the way that both parties move, indigenous folks and, uh, western folks move, uh, are at inherently different paces. Mary Carreon: And, [01:02:00] um, I just hope, and I wish, and I, I hope, I just hope that, uh, Western what, like the Western party, the western folks who are diving into these medicines. Slow the fuck down and listen and just are able to at least make one right move. Just one, just like you. Like it's, doesn't have to be this, it doesn't have to be that hard. Mary Carreon: Although the pace of capitalism usually propels, uh, the western folks at, at a much quicker rate than, um, yeah. Then it's like at, at a dangerous rate, I believe through the eyes of indigenous folks. So we'll see how it goes. Michael Joe Moore: Douglas from Wall Street, like, it was like actually the devil, and like, I think there's like this, this like capitalism will, somebody will do it if I don't, and so, like, you're right. Joe Moore: Yeah. Speed. So if I choose to try to slow down Yeah. Immediate loss for me. Yeah. As an individual. Yeah. That's how it's perceived. Yes. Let's not go deep down there. Where do you go? Where do, do sit with l [01:03:00] SD and md MA? Mary Carreon: Where do I sit? Where do you mean? Like, Joe Moore: should we, should we slow down with LSD and MD MAI Mary Carreon: don't think so. Mary Carreon: I don't think so. I don't, I don't think so. I mean, you know. It's different with the molecules. It's different with the molecules, I believe. Um, I think that we actually should be looking more towards, I think that we should be looking more at LSD in terms of the benefits that we could be reaping from that molecule, uh, in a similar way that we have been looking at MDMA. Mary Carreon: We've been looking at MDMA for a very long time, and I think that we should give LSD the proper, uh, like the proper, uh, scientific analysis. And I don't think that we are because of its, you know, like the way that it's been, uh, projected through history. So, so yeah. Um, that's how I, that's how I feel about that. Mary Carreon: And I think that, uh, there's a safe way to do these substances and yeah. What about you, Joe? Joe Moore: I'm gonna vote for two cb, I'm gonna vote for, um, five M-E-O-D-M-T 'cause there's no indigenous use, [01:04:00] um, with the toad. There was YoPo and some other things, but like there wasn't, wasn't like we're doing it today. Um, and then, okay, there's so many other Shogun molecules we could look at and, I don't know, three mmc, four MC. Joe Moore: We got some, you know, Dr. Z molecules. That guy's extraordinary. Dr. Mary Carreon: Z. Joe Moore: Mm-hmm. Mary Carreon: Yeah. Joe Moore: Uh, yeah, he was gonna headline our conference in LA when we were still gonna do that. Mary Carreon: Oh, oh yeah. Oh yeah. Way back. I, yeah. Oh wow. I remember, I remember when you guys were doing that. Joe Moore: It was gonna be fun. Yeah. Anyway, um, anything you want to give a shout out to as we kind of wrap up here? Mary Carreon: I would just like to shout out you, Joe. Thank you for having me on. Thank you for still standing and existing and leading. Psychedelics today into the future. I think that's really commendable and noble of you given how difficult it is to be running a media company, particularly in [01:05:00] psychedelics, but in general in media at large. Mary Carreon: And, uh, I would like to also say, if you don't follow me on Instagram, you can find me at Mary Prankster. That's Mary, MARY, YY prankster. Uh, you can find me across social media there and also sign up for Double Blinds Newsletter. We send out, we send out, uh, stories. Uh, we have great journalists writing stories for us. Mary Carreon: Uh, we send out Monday, Wednesday, and Friday and yeah, that's pretty much it. Joe Moore: Mary, carry on. Thank you so much for joining us and I hope we get to do more of this. Mary Carreon: Yeah, absolutely. Thank you, Joe.

Joe and Kyle celebrate Vital Cohort 4 and reflect on why Vital is more than a 12-month psychedelic-informed training—it's a living community (alumni webinars, discussion groups, cross-cohort meetups). Many grads aren't rushing to facilitate; they're choosing integration, harm reduction, education, and local community building. Next cohort dates are TBD —applications and email sign-ups are open. Breathwork in Breckenridge (this weekend) Dreamshadow Transpersonal Breathwork returns Fri–Sun. The last workshop reinforced how powerful the format is for bonding, somatic processing, and ongoing peer support. Music & tech: fail-safe playbook Keep redundant sources: primary laptop with WAV/FLAC (VLC/Mixxx), secondary device/phone, and a small Bluetooth speaker as last resort. Redundant mixers/interfaces, tested cables, simple signal flow. Pre-flight the exact rig; monitor for digital artifacts/grounding noise. Use offline playlists + Do Not Disturb (actually test it). Why community matters now With AI accelerating "dead-internet" dynamics, trusted human networks—book clubs, film clubs, local meetups—are essential. Skills for the moment: digital security hygiene and discernment (evaluating claims, sources, and inner signals). News & trends Alaska: statewide psilocybin initiative begins signature gathering. New Mexico: momentum toward group psilocybin care (cost-cutting models; ~2-year horizon). TBI & psychedelics: expanding research interest (ibogaine/5-MeO imaging work; anti-inflammatory angles). Colorado & iboga: advisory board backs therapeutic use and encourages Nagoya Protocol reciprocity; federal import/legal nuances remain. Harm-reduction notes Beware gas-station/head-shop "psychedelic" edibles labeled as "proprietary blends." Ask for COAs and clear ingredients; understand test-kit limits (chocolates are tricky). For injections (even "legal" clinics), ask about sterile technique, water, dosing, and sourcing. Get involved Navigators: join our membership for exclusive livestreams, book/film clubs, courses, and meetups. Vital: apply or join the interest list—dates announced soon.

Joe Moore sits down with Greg Shanken (Colorado Psychedelic Society, Collaborence Psychedelic Business Association; founder, Higher Frequency Network) for a wide-ranging conversation about building community infrastructure, navigating censorship, and creating accessible, ethical pathways into psychedelic healing. Greg shares his personal arc from lifelong depression to ayahuasca, ketamine, and Bufo; why he launched a vetted affiliate/partner network for our space; and how Oregon–Colorado collaboration can widen access while honoring reciprocity and conservation. Key themes Collaborence: a two-day CO/OR event (online + in-person) connecting facilitators, professionals, and the public with pay-what-you-can access options. Access & affordability: how to widen entry points (microdosing, breathwork, scholarships/funds) within and beyond regulated service/healing centers. Censorship & platform risk: why repeated Meta account shutdowns pushed Greg to build community-based distribution outside big ad networks. Personal journey: depression, SSRIs/SNRIs/ADHD meds → ayahuasca (two-night initiation), IM ketamine, and later Bufo/5-MeO-DMT. Ethics & ecology: "blood toad," conservation, and the case for synthetic 5-MeO-DMT over toad-sourced material; parallels with peyote/mescaline carve-outs. Leadership & culture: bringing heart-centered leadership, breathwork, and microdosing into companies; moving from transactional to mutual-aid ecosystems. Regulated vs. underground: costs, insurance realities, sliding-scale models, and the role each plays in a healthy landscape.

In this episode of Psychedelics Today, Joe Moore sits down with Dr. Cat Meyer, licensed psychotherapist, sex therapist, and host of Sex, Love, Psychedelics. Together, they explore the deep intersections of sexuality, trauma healing, psychedelics, and the role of play in human connection. Dr. Meyer shares her journey from growing up in rural Missouri and navigating early trauma to becoming a leading voice in sex therapy and psychedelic integration. She opens up about her personal healing path, her work with ketamine-assisted therapy, and how tantra, BDSM, and art have shaped her approach to erotic wellness. Topics Covered Defining the Erotic: Beyond sex, eroticism as vibrancy, life force, and connection to the senses. Personal Story: Dr. Meyer's early struggles, academic path in marriage and family therapy, and her discovery of tantra and BDSM as transformative practices. Psychedelics and Healing: Her first experiences with MDMA-assisted therapy, ketamine retreats for women, and how these tools can reconnect people with pleasure and embodiment. The Power of Play: Why play is essential for healing, relationships, and cultural transformation—ranging from improv and art to Burning Man experiments. Navigating Power Dynamics: How erotic transference, facilitation, and unconscious needs can shape therapy, sex, and psychedelic work—and why self-awareness is crucial. Feral Mysticism: Rewilding the body, reclaiming personal authority, and embracing vibrancy outside of cultural repression. Pleasure and Illness: How Dr. Meyer works with clients facing chronic pain, fatigue, or illness to maintain erotic connection through presence and small practices. Key Quotes "Eroticism is the connection to vibrancy, to life—it's how we engage with the world through pleasure." "Feeling is power. A discerning human who can feel is a powerful human." "Psychedelics help us come back into right relationship with our body and with pleasure." "Play gives us the freedom to experiment, to try, to be vulnerable, and to learn without attaching our worth to the outcome."

Joe Moore interviews Dee Dee Goldpaugh, LCSW about their new book Embrace Pleasure: How Psychedelics Can Heal Our Sexuality. The discussion covers the book's reception, critiques of over-medicalization, personal healing experiences, definitions of erotic energy and pleasure, historical repression of substances, and contemporary ethical concerns. Key topics Conversion therapy: historical use of psychedelics in conversion practices, risks today, and need for professional consensus to ban psychedelic-assisted conversion therapy. Motivation: reaction to dominance of the clinical/medical model in psychedelics. Author background: clinical social worker, ketamine-assisted therapy provider, sexual abuse survivor, early psychedelic integration work. Personal healing: ayahuasca and San Pedro (Wachuma) experiences leading to embodied healing and pleasure. Concepts defined: erotic energy as life force; distinction between healing pleasure and leisure. Political framing: pleasure as anti-capitalist resistance; sustaining community and activism. Links https://www.deedeegoldpaugh.com Embrace Pleasure: How Psychedelics Can Heal Our Sexuality

From the Rave Scene to Psychedelic Therapy In this episode, Kyle Buller speaks with Matt Xavier, DJ, therapist, and author. The conversation took place live at Psychedelic Science. Matt recalls his early years in the rave culture of 1990s New York. He ran record labels, hosted psychedelic trance events, and lived through the intensity of that scene. Why Music Is Medicine Matt believes music should be treated as medicine. He explains how playlists can align with the stages of a psychedelic journey—onset, climb, peak, and descent. He encourages people to listen with intention and to categorize tracks by emotion, energy, and therapeutic impact. Psychedelic Soundtracking Instead of relying only on fixed playlists, Matt performs live mixing during sessions. This method keeps him fully engaged and responsive. He calls the approach "psychedelic soundtracking." In his view, the guide becomes a tuning fork, adjusting the soundscape to match the client's process. Key Themes in the Conversation The evolution from rave DJ to therapist and author How music amplifies psychedelics, and why it matters Matching music with each stage of a journey Differences between psilocybin, MDMA, and ketamine work The value of silence, long-form tracks, and harmonic mixing Why buying music supports artists and protects creativity from AI Practical tips for building playlists and rediscovering a love of listening Supporting Artists and Building Community Matt highlights the artists who inspire his work, from ambient pioneers to contemporary sound designers. He urges practitioners to support independent musicians by purchasing their music. In his words, keeping human creativity alive is essential for meaningful psychedelic work. Writing, Mixing, and the Future Matt also discusses his new book and the curated four-hour DJ protocol mix he designed for therapy sessions. He explains how this project grew into a collaborative effort and why writing became a spiritual journey for him. Looking ahead, he hopes to create a training program for others interested in weaving music into psychedelic practice. 🎶 Whether you are a therapist, a DJ, or simply a music lover, this episode shows how sound can transform the psychedelic experience.

In this episode, Joe Moore sits down with Dr. Case Newsom, an emergency room physician in Denver and Medical Director for both Zendo Project and Stadium Medical. They explore how psychedelic harm reduction is merging with event medicine at concerts, festivals, and large-scale gatherings. Dr. Newsom shares his path from osteopathic medical training to bridging emergency medicine with psychedelic peer support. He explains how the Zendo Project has expanded beyond Burning Man, and why collaboration with medical teams matters. The discussion highlights new triage protocols, cultural shifts in Colorado, and the legal challenges that still stand in the way of safer events. Topics Covered The role of the Zendo Project: Peer support, harm reduction, and creating grounded spaces in chaotic environments. Stadium Medical's model: Covering Denver's biggest venues and connecting emergency care with psychedelic peer support. Developing medical triage protocols: A simple system that reduces unnecessary ER transports while ensuring sitter and guest safety. Colorado as a hub: Why Denver and Red Rocks are central to psychedelic culture and harm reduction innovation. Legal and regulatory challenges: The impact of the RAVE Act and limits on drug checking services. Research and data collection: Building stronger studies to show venues and first responders the value of harm reduction. Future concerns: Ibogaine's cardiotoxic risks, the rise of AI-designed drugs, and why medical involvement is urgent. Ketamine in the ER: How ketamine provides pain relief and can create meaningful patient experiences when used with care.

In this episode, Joe Moore is joined by Kat Murti, Executive Director of Students for Sensible Drug Policy (SSDP), the largest youth-led network working to end the war on drugs. SSDP organizes at the campus, local, state, federal, and international levels, with more than 100 chapters across the U.S. and sister organizations worldwide. Kat shares her personal journey into drug policy reform, from witnessing DEA raids on AIDS patients in the 1990s to fighting for civil liberties as a student at UC Berkeley. She explains how SSDP empowers young people to challenge outdated laws and promote policies rooted in compassion, scientific evidence, and human rights. Topics Discussed The War on Drugs as a War on Us: Kat's early realizations about the drug war's racism, injustice, and destruction of civil liberties. Her Path to SSDP: From working on California's Prop 19 cannabis campaign to serving on SSDP's board and eventually becoming Executive Director. Meta Censorship Campaign: Why Meta's restrictions on drug education and harm reduction content harm communities, and how SSDP is organizing public pressure to protect freedom of information online. Forced Institutionalization & Executive Orders: Kat critiques recent federal moves to expand forced treatment, cuts to naloxone training programs, and the misguided use of tariffs as "solutions" to the overdose crisis. The Fight Against DEA Scheduling of DOI & DOC: Why these research chemicals are vital to neuroscience and medicine, how SSDP challenged the DEA in court, and what's at stake for future research. Illogical Drug Policy & Careerism: How prohibition persists due to political incentives, propaganda, and entrenched bureaucratic interests. Building a Better Future: Realigning incentive structures, embracing harm reduction, and supporting community-based solutions to drug use. Key Takeaways The war on drugs is deeply racist, anti-science, and erodes civil liberties. Meta's censorship of harm reduction information actively endangers lives. Forced treatment doesn't work—addressing social conditions and providing safe housing does. DOI and DOC, rarely if ever used recreationally, are critical to medical research, and scheduling them would halt decades of progress. Real reform means both ending prohibition and creating environments where people feel supported, connected, and empowered. Links & Resources Students for Sensible Drug Policy (SSDP): ssdp.org Kat Murti on Twitter/X: @KatMurti Kat Murti on Instagram: @KittyRevolution SSDP Petition against Meta Censorship: ssdp.org

In this episode, Joe Moore is joined by Mareesa Stertz and Tania Abdul, the visionaries behind Sphinx Gate, one of Burning Man 2025's most ambitious and mythic art installations. Inspired by The NeverEnding Story, Sphinx Gate features two towering 34-foot sphinxes and a fully immersive, transformative art experience designed to help participants gain a deeper understanding of themselves. The trio explores how art and play can catalyze personal and collective transformation—without the need for psychedelics—by helping people reframe inner challenges as quests for growth. They discuss the project's mythic inspiration, how it has evolved into a "transmersive" self-discovery journey, and how community co-creation has made this dream real. With rituals, interactive stations, laser-eyed sphinxes, and an oracle offering personalized missions, Sphinx Gate blends storytelling, inner work, and spectacle. They also touch on the deeper intention: shifting culture by normalizing integration, peer support, and emotional exploration—through joy. From honoring Indigenous land stewards to designing future traveling versions and permanent "Museums of Self-Exploration," this project is just the beginning. Topics Covered: What Sphinx Gate is and how it works The archetypal and cultural roots of sphinxes How The NeverEnding Story inspired the vision Designing integration spaces without psychedelics Co-creation, community magic, and scaling big dreams The emotional and mystical potential of participatory art Fantasia Fridays, Black Rock Philharmonic, and more playa programming Vision for life beyond Burning Man Support Sphinx Gate: Help bring this mythic experience to life and fund its future by donating at TheSphinxGate.com Follow: IG: @thesphinxgate www.thesphinxgate.com

In this episode of Psychedelics Today, Joe Moore sits down with Chad Charles — educator, mentor, and practitioner specializing in 5-MeO-DMT therapy. Chad shares his decade-long journey working with 5-MeO-DMT, emphasizing the importance of: Practitioner training and mentorship Personalized, therapeutic alliances The nuanced understanding of dissociative states Ethics in standardized clinical dosing A trauma-informed approach to psychedelic care He also introduces his upcoming research project, analyzing 500+ one-on-one sessions to illuminate best practices and ethical frameworks in the 5-MeO-DMT space. This is a must-listen for anyone passionate about harm reduction, responsible facilitation, and the future of psychedelic therapy. 🕒 Episode Breakdown 00:00 – Introduction and Guest Welcome 00:41 – Chad Charles' Background and Work 02:18 – Defining 5-MeO-DMT 05:28 – Breathwork and Therapy 09:22 – First Experiences with 5-MeO-DMT 18:00 – Training and Ethical Considerations 30:41 – Conscious Surrender vs. Submission Experience 31:18 – Ethical Considerations in Psychedelic Research 32:02 – Understanding Dissociative Doses 33:26 – Empowering Individuals Through Therapeutic Alliance 34:26 – Challenges in Contemporary Science 38:02 – Good Practice vs. Malpractice in Psychedelic Therapy 41:51 – Personal Experience and Practitioner Responsibility 46:52 – Addressing Malpractice and Corrective Experiences 01:00:11 – Physical Health Considerations in Psychedelic Therapy 01:02:21 – Future Directions and Research in Psychedelic Therapy 01:05:43 – Conclusion and Contact Information

In this episode of Psychedelics Today, Joe Moore sits down with Alan Davis, Associate Professor at Ohio State University, to explore the evolving landscape of Ibogaine research and its therapeutic potential. Alan offers a deep dive into the Iboga Patient Survey, a groundbreaking initiative collecting real-world data on the safety and efficacy of Ibogaine—particularly for those struggling with substance use disorders and mental health challenges. The conversation sheds light on the need for rigorous, community-informed research that could pave the way toward FDA approval and increased access for patients, including veterans dealing with trauma. They also discuss the complexities of clinical trials, the tension between state and federal regulations, and the growing influence of corporate interests in psychedelic research. Alan emphasizes the importance of ethical transparency, community collaboration, and maintaining scientific integrity as the field grows. If you're curious about the intersection of psychedelic medicine, clinical research, and patient safety, this is a must-listen episode. Topics Covered 00:00 – Introduction and Guest Welcome 00:53 – Reflecting on COVID-19's Psychological Impact 01:29 – Introducing the Iboga Patient Survey 01:46 – History and Goals of Ibogaine Research 02:41 – Challenges in Conducting Clinical Trials 03:14 – Importance of Real-World Safety Data 06:55 – Personal Interest in Ibogaine 08:56 – Veterans and Trauma: A Personal Connection 10:53 – Reintegration and Emotional Processing 15:29 – Survey Participation and Accessibility 18:25 – Building Partnerships and Overcoming Challenges 21:06 – Ensuring Safety and Transparency 31:49 – Community and Academic Collaboration 33:06 – Survey Design and Future Research Directions 36:50 – Momentum in Psychedelic Research 37:48 – State vs. Federal Regulation 39:23 – Challenges in Psychedelic Treatment 43:01 – Corporate Interests and Scientific Objectivity 47:20 – Ketamine and Collaborative Research 51:56 – Ibogaine Patient Survey 57:55 – Psychedelics and Pain Research 01:07:22 – Conclusion and Future Directions

In this engaging episode of the Psychedelics Today podcast, host Joe Moore sits down with Karina Bashir, an attorney working at the intersection of law, business ethics, and psychedelics. Karina, of counsel with Antithesis Law and an active member of the psychedelic community, shares her unique journey from human rights advocacy into the evolving field of psychedelic law. The conversation explores her presentation at Harvard on psychedelics and monotheistic religions, and her efforts to bridge the gap between Islamic communities and psychedelic-assisted healing. She discusses the legal frameworks she navigates to support clients in the psychedelic ecosystem, the spiritual depth of Sufism, and the expansive tradition of Islamic philosophy and mysticism. If you're intrigued by the intersections of religion, law, and psychedelic healing, this episode offers deep insights and hopeful perspectives. 📌 Episode Highlights 00:00 – Introduction and Guest Welcome 00:19 – Meeting at the Psychedelic Safety Institute 01:04 – Karina's Legal Work and Background 04:03 – Human Rights and Migration Work 07:30 – Psychedelics as a Human Rights Issue 18:01 – Legal Challenges in the Psychedelic Space 23:03 – Islam and Psychedelics 28:15 – The Fatwa Process and Islamic Scholars 28:57 – Building Momentum in the Muslim Community 29:08 – Islamic Law and Psychedelics 29:30 – Engaging Muslim Scholars and Community 33:45 – Sufism and Islamic Mysticism 35:09 – Access to Psychedelic Medicine for Muslims 36:49 – Positive Responses and Growing Interest 39:17 – Sufism's Rich Traditions and Practices 40:51 – Intersection of Sufism and Psychedelics 44:14 – Islamic Cosmology and Psychedelic Experiences 51:26 – Concluding Thoughts and Future Directions Attorney, Ethics Advocate, and Program Director at North Star Project Karina Bashir is an accomplished attorney and thought leader working at the intersection of law, ethics, and psychedelics to support a new paradigm of care and equity. She serves as Of Counsel with Antithesis Law, PC, advising clients on corporate formation, risk mitigation, compliance, and ethical best practices. As Program Director at the North Star Project, she advocates for values-driven growth in the psychedelic field through the development of dynamic ethical guidelines. Karina also sits on the Board of Directors of the Psychedelic Bar Association and serves as a steward of its Religious Use Committee. Her work also bridges Islamic thought and psychedelic healing, exploring how spiritual traditions—particularly Sufism—can inform modern approaches to wellness and therapeutic care. She is passionate about increasing access and cultural understanding within Muslim communities engaging with psychedelics. A Fulbright and Gates Cambridge Scholar, Karina holds a JD from UC Berkeley, an MPhil in International Relations from the University of Cambridge, and a BA from the University of Michigan.

In this deeply important episode of Psychedelics Today, Joe Moore is joined by Kristen Nash, MPH, and returning guest Erica Siegel, LCSW, for a nuanced conversation about risk reduction, harm prevention, and ethical education in the psychedelic space. Kristen shares the powerful and heartbreaking story of losing her 21-year-old son after a tragic psychedelic-related incident. Motivated by this loss and her background in public health, she founded the Coalition for Psychedelic Safety and Education and launched the Before You Trip campaign—an educational initiative piloting in Colorado aimed at helping Gen Z users assess their readiness and safety before engaging with psychedelics. Erica contributes her extensive experience from Nest Harm Reduction and Shine Collective, emphasizing the need for peer-based support, non-abstinence frameworks, and trauma-informed approaches. She highlights common pitfalls such as untrained facilitators, predatory behavior, and the pervasive issue of gaslighting in psychedelic communities. Together, they explore the gaps in current education efforts, the dangers of glorifying substances without context, and the moral injuries that can occur when people are harmed or dismissed by the very communities meant to support them. The conversation calls for broader public funding, lived-experience-informed leadership, and transparency around psychological and relational risks—not just physiological harm. The episode also touches on poly-substance use, the limitations of existing drug harm scales, and the importance of setting, support, and intention. With a shared commitment to saving lives and empowering users, Kristen and Erica offer actionable insights and heartfelt reflections on making this space safer for everyone. Listeners are encouraged to follow and support both Before You Trip and Shine Collective to help expand harm reduction education and survivor advocacy.

In this episode, Joe Moore speaks with award-winning science journalist Erica Rex about her personal experience participating in psychedelic research, her upcoming book Seeing What Is There: My Search for Sanity in the Psychedelic Era, and the complex story behind the recently published Religious Leader Psilocybin Study from Johns Hopkins and NYU. They examine: Erica's firsthand experience as a participant in the original 2012 study that helped launch Roland Griffiths' prominence in psychedelic science. The goals and outcomes of the Religious Leader Study, which sought to explore how psilocybin might impact religious leaders' effectiveness and connection to their communities. The methodological and ethical problems that plagued the study. The influence of perennialist frameworks and the limitations of measures like the Mystical Experience Questionnaire (MEQ). Broader concerns about the infiltration of religious ideology and lack of rigor in psychedelic science. A deep critique of the institutional systems that allowed flawed research processes to go unchecked — and how these patterns risk repeating the mistakes of the 1960s psychedelic wave. Joe and Erica also dive into how modern psychedelic science struggles to reconcile subjective experience, spirituality, and the reductionist standards of academic research. They discuss Matt Johnson's paper critiquing "psychedelic consciousness" framing and explore whether our current scientific tools are capable of capturing the depth of psychedelic experience. Erica's forthcoming book, slated for release in January 2026, blends memoir, neuroscience, and social critique. It offers a critical insider's view of the psychedelic renaissance—its promise, pitfalls, and the ways it mirrors broader systemic issues in science and culture.

In this expansive episode of Psychedelics Today, Joe Moore sits down with author and cultural theorist Daniel Pinchbeck to explore the evolving—and increasingly contested—role of psychedelics in society. From the hopeful spirit of transformation that animated earlier psychedelic movements to the sobering reality of biotech, branding, and political entanglement, Daniel offers a candid diagnosis of where we are—and where we might be headed. Reflecting on Psychedelic Science 2025, Daniel discusses the event's stark shift toward commercialization and industry influence. He contrasts this with his earlier work on Evolver, a movement that sought to integrate psychedelics with permaculture, alternative economics, and cultural awakening. Together, Joe and Daniel examine how the field's idealistic origins have been increasingly subjected to capitalist co-option. They also dive into deeper philosophical terrain—discussing monistic idealism, Rudolf Steiner, and the suppression of mystical and paranormal dimensions in the push to medicalize and sanitize psychedelics for mainstream acceptance. Daniel warns of the dangers of ignoring the shadow, including psychic fragmentation and what he calls "entity attachment" from ungrounded use. The conversation ranges from tech billionaires on ketamine to the geopolitical threat of authoritarianism, the weaponization of AI, and the quiet complicity of many in the psychedelic space who avoid political engagement. Daniel shares his current projects, including his Substack newsletter and a new seminar, Breaking the AI Barrier. This is a timely, unflinching exploration of psychedelics as both medicine and mirror—revealing the best and worst of our collective intentions. Can we reclaim the visionary potential of these tools from the grip of capital and control?

In this wide-ranging conversation, journalist Mattha Busby joins Joe Moore to reflect on the shifting tone of the psychedelic movement in the wake of Psychedelic Science 2025. Based in Vancouver, Mattha has written for The Guardian, VICE, Esquire, TIME, and Wired, bringing a uniquely embedded yet critical lens to the space. They discuss the post-conference mood and the sense that the industry is sobering up—less hype, more introspection. Mattha reflects on the growing division between underground practitioners, activists, and biotech startups, and the importance of vision, ethics, and scrutiny in the midst of this cultural moment. Other topics include: Ketamine overuse and dependence, especially in social and parenting contexts The future of psychedelic nightlife, harm reduction, and mocktail bars Gender and sexual fluidity as uncovered through psychedelics Questions of IP, underground wisdom, and psychedelic ownership Psychedelics as tools for peacebuilding, especially in conflict zones The shadow side of spiritual experiences and how to spot bad actors The value of pleasure, intimacy, and human connection in the psychedelic journey Joe and Mattha also reflect on the resurgence of psychedelic use in Texas, the legacy of the Stark Club, and how Christian libertarianism and military trauma might influence unexpected policy changes. This conversation is bold, honest, funny, and thoughtful—exactly the kind of cultural critique the movement needs right now. Find Mattha on Instagram at @matthamundo and on LinkedIn at Mattha Busby. His new pocketbook on drug policy is available now.

Dylan Beynon: At-Home Ketamine Therapy, Big Pharma Pushback, and the Future of Psychedelic Accessibility In this episode, Joe Moore welcomes Dylan Beynon, CEO and Founder of Mindbloom, one of the largest providers of legal, at-home ketamine therapy in the U.S. Dylan shares the deeply personal story that led him to psychedelic medicine—including the tragic loss of his mother and sister to addiction and mental illness—and how these experiences continue to fuel his mission to make psychedelic therapy affordable and accessible for all. Mindbloom has now facilitated over 654,000 sessions across 38 states, offering both sublingual and subcutaneous (injectable) ketamine in a comprehensive treatment program that includes preparation, integration, music, journaling, and even generative AI art. The conversation dives into common criticisms of at-home ketamine, the benefits of guided treatment over IV infusions, and the disturbing influence of Big Pharma in media narratives—especially the growing PR push behind SPRAVATO. Dylan also breaks down what makes Mindbloom's outcomes stand out, why they recently added injectable ketamine, and how their safety data challenges popular misconceptions. Joe and Dylan also touch on the potential future of at-home MDMA therapy, regulatory hurdles, and what it will take to scale these powerful treatments to millions of people in need. If you're in the psychedelic field, considering ketamine therapy, or curious about the ethics and economics of psychedelic medicine, this episode offers a powerful look behind the curtain. Resources: Mindbloom.com Vital Psychedelic Training

In this episode, we sit down with Victoria Litman, M.Div., J.D., LL.M., to discuss why the future of psychedelic access in the United States is being shaped not by federal agencies, but by the bold actions of individual states. As a legal scholar and writer focusing on drug policy, Victoria breaks down the significance of the FDA's 2024 rejection of psychedelic-assisted therapy, and why that decision might be less of a setback than it seems. We explore how state-level initiatives like Oregon's Psilocybin Services Act and Colorado's Natural Medicine Health Act are setting the stage for a new model of access—one rooted in harm reduction, personal liberty, and existing regulatory infrastructure. Victoria discusses the importance of the Tenth Amendment and the Anti-Commandeering Doctrine, which allow states to move forward regardless of federal inaction. Rather than waiting for slow-moving federal institutions, Victoria argues that states can build safe, scalable systems now—especially by leveraging cannabis infrastructure for psychedelic regulation. She also touches on the ethical and cultural implications of this transition, including protections for spiritual and religious use. If you're wondering what psychedelic policy will look like in the years ahead, this episode offers an insightful and hopeful roadmap. Link to CATO article

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Joe Moore and Anne Philippi are hosts of the PS25 Morning Show! This one features Dee Dee Goldpaugh, LCSW and Tommaso Barba, PhDC! We talk about all things Sex and Psychedelics!

n this episode of Psychedelics Today, kicking of Psychedelic Science 2025 week in Denver, we sit down with Jonathan Dicksinson, Chief Executive Officer, and Trevor Millar, Chief Operations Officer of Ambio Life Sciences – one of the world's leading ibogaine clinics – to explore the potential of ibogaine for addiction, neuroregeneration, and how ethics, honoring experience, and sustainability will be key to delivering ibogaine at scale.  Trevor shares his early work supporting marginalized populations in Vancouver's Downtown Eastside, which led to the founding of Liberty Root, one of Canada's first ibogaine clinics. Jonathan reflects on his apprenticeship in Mexican clinics, years of international advocacy with the Global Ibogaine Therapy Alliance, and drafting the first set of clinical guidelines for ibogaine detoxification. Together with paramedic and ibogaine safety protocols expert Jose Inzunza, they co-founded Ambio in Tijuana in 2021. They discuss: The unique safety standards Ambio has pioneered – including industry-wide clinical protocols and magnesium therapy to mitigate cardiac risk. Their scale: over 3,000 patients treated, with 100+ clients per month across five dedicated houses in Baja California. Ambio's groundbreaking neuroregenerative program for Parkinson's, MS, and traumatic brain injury – which has already drawn patients like Brett Favre and Clay Walker. How ibogaine appears to drive profound physiological change – including evidence of TBI reversal as shown in Stanford's 2024 study on Special Forces veterans. Why ibogaine isn't just a molecule – it opens a long-lasting "critical period" of neuroplasticity that must be supported with preparation, integration, and holistic care. The deeper story of sourcing: through his company Terragnosis, Jonathan is the only person with a legal export license for Tabernanthe iboga from Gabon, and Ambio is setting a precedent for reciprocal and ethical global supply chains. Their cautionary perspective on Texas' $50M push toward ibogaine clinical trials – and why the traditional "one drug, one indication" model misses the complexity and promise of psychedelic healing. They also make a compelling case that Ambio is already modeling what the future of psychedelic care should look like – not a single drug in a sterile clinical setting, but a comprehensive, integrated protocol combining preparation, medical oversight, and deep integration. "Start with the end in mind," Trevor urges – Ambio isn't just part of the movement; it's the blueprint for how ibogaine could be delivered worldwide. Links: Ambio Website: https://ambio.life/ Significant lesion reduction and neural structural changes following ibogaine treatments for multiple sclerosis (Frontiers in Immunology, Feb 2025) Magnesium–ibogaine therapy in veterans with traumatic brain injuries (Nature Medicine, Jan 2024) Ibogaine reduced severe neuropathic pain associated with a case of brachial plexus nerve root avulsion (Frontiers in Pain Research, Aug 2023) Novel treatment of opioid use disorder using ibogaine and iboga in two adults (Journal of Psychedelic Studies, Jan 2020) Clinical Guidelines for Ibogaine-Assisted Detoxification Ambio Life Sciences Launches World's First Clinical Ibogaine Program for Patients With Neurodegenerative Conditions Bios:  Jonathan Dickinson is the Chief Executive Officer and Co-Founder of Ambio Life Sciences. One of the world's leading experts on ibogaine, Jonathan brings over 15 years of experience in clinical care, traditional practice, and psychedelic research to his leadership at Ambio. A Mexico-licensed psychologist and former Executive Director of the Global Ibogaine Therapy Alliance, he authored the field's foundational safety guidelines and has published widely on ibogaine's therapeutic, cultural, and ecological significance. He holds the only active export license for Tabernanthe iboga root, led the first Nagoya-compliant export from Gabon, and was initiated into the Dissoumba/Fang tradition of Bwiti in 2014 and the Missoko tradition in 2022. He has co-authored peer-reviewed research on ibogaine's potential for trauma, TBI, pain, MS, and Parkinson's. At Ambio, he leads strategy, research, and innovation – advancing a globally scalable model of care that bridges tradition, science, and integrity. Trevor Millar is the Chief Operating Officer and Co-Founder of Ambio Life Sciences. A social entrepreneur and pioneer in ibogaine advocacy and treatment, Trevor brings over a decade of experience supporting individuals through addiction recovery, trauma healing, and post-treatment integration. His background includes co-founding the Canadian Psychedelic Association and serving as Chair of the Board for MAPS Canada. He has co-authored peer-reviewed research on ibogaine's applications for trauma, TBI, and opioid use disorder, and has been featured in award-winning documentaries including DOSED and In Waves and War. Grounded in personal experience and guided by a philosophical approach to healing, Trevor is helping shape a new model for ethical, integrative psychedelic care on a global scale. At Ambio, Trevor leads operations, strategic partnerships, and client experience – bridging clinical care with systems design, education, and public advocacy.

In this episode of Psychedelics Today, hosts sit down with Jeff Breau from Harvard Divinity School's Center for the Study of World Religions. Key themes include the intersection of psychedelics and religion, harm reduction practices, and the burgeoning psychedelic church movement. Jeff brings insights from his ethnographic research on psychedelic churches and discusses the importance of interdisciplinary collaboration for advancing understanding in this field. He also delves into the role of music in psychedelic therapy, critiques of the Mystical Experience Questionnaire (MEQ), and the potential for psychedelic chaplaincy. Tune in for an enlightening conversation on the evolving landscape of psychedelics in society and spirituality.   00:00 Introduction and Welcome 00:18 Music in Psychedelic Therapy 02:13 Cultural Context of Music in Therapy 06:08 Personal Journey into Psychedelics and Religion 08:40 Living at an Ashram and Spiritual Practices 15:52 Mystical Experience Questionnaire (MEQ) 33:01 Psychedelic Churches and Legal Challenges 46:11 The Intersection of Law and Religion 46:34 Emergence of Psychedelic Churches 48:41 The Democratization of Mystical Experiences 49:49 Technologies of Revelation 51:10 Novel Rituals and Spiritual Practices 53:49 Humor and Irreverence in Religion 56:44 Reevaluating the Term 'Cult' 01:10:11 Psychedelic Chaplaincy and Spiritual Care 01:18:44 Burning Man as a Model for Religiosity 01:22:43 The Rise of Iboga in American Christianity 01:25:56 Conclusion and Future Directions Links https://cswr.hds.harvard.edu/people/jeffrey-breau

In this episode, Joe Moore sits down with Paul Gillis-Smith from The Center for the Study of World Religions to discuss a range of fascinating topics. They begin by discussing the Harvard Divinity School and the CSWR's mission and history. The conversation delves into the work and legacy of Lisa Bieberman, a pivotal figure in the 1960s psychedelic harm reduction movement. It explores her contributions to the field through her Psychedelic Information Center. They also touch on the Quaker traditions and their intersection with LSD use, showing how spirituality and psychedelics can coalesce. Paul also talks about upcoming psychedelic and chaplaincy workshops, emphasizing the importance of spiritual care in psychedelic experiences. This episode is rich with historical insights and contemporary applications, making it a must-listen for anyone interested in psychedelics and spirituality. Paul Gillis-Smith @ CSWR Center for the Study of World Religions Psychometric brahman, psychedelic science: Walter Stace, transnational Vedanta, and the Mystical Experience Questionnaire 00:00 Introduction and Initial Setup 00:34 Meeting at Penn's Psychedelic Conference 01:14 Postdoctoral Presentations and Indigenous Plant Medicine 03:27 Understanding CSWR and Its Evolution 07:21 Harvard's Study of Psychedelics in Society and Culture 09:11 Personal Academic Journey and Interest in Psychedelics 11:58 Role at CSWR and Ongoing Projects 18:59 Lisa Bieberman: A Pioneer in Psychedelic Education 40:53 Quaker Theology of LSD 41:58 Meeting Structure and Frequency 42:46 Profound Simple Truths 45:41 Transition to Quakerism 48:45 The New Jerusalem Prophecy 53:02 Quakerism and Its Influence 01:11:25 Clinical Chaplaincy and Psychedelics 01:18:39 Conclusion and Future Projects

In this episode of Psychedelics Today, Joe Moore speaks with Dr. Simon Ruffell, a London-based psychiatrist, researcher, and curandero-in-training in the López Mahua lineage of the Shipibo tradition. Dr. Ruffell shares how his early fascination with psychiatry eventually led to a deep disillusionment with the limitations of conventional treatments—and a surprising pivot toward the Amazon. Now working at the intersection of Indigenous healing and clinical research, Ruffell describes his journey from medical school to shamanic apprenticeship. He offers insight into the Shipibo understanding of illness across three planes—spiritual, psychological, and physical—and how these ideas challenge Western frameworks. The conversation explores critical questions about the psychedelic renaissance: Are current clinical models missing the energetic and spiritual dimensions of healing? What are the risks of poorly held psychedelic sessions, and how can Indigenous knowledge guide safer practices? Dr. Ruffell advocates for deep training, cross-cultural respect, and collaborative models—such as pairing Indigenous healers with psychiatrists in clinical settings. He also discusses his work with Onaya Science and Onaya.io, organizations that partner with Indigenous communities to study the effects of ayahuasca, particularly in treating PTSD among military veterans. Early findings from their five-year study show that 84% of participants no longer meet PTSD criteria six months after retreat—a promising signal for integrative approaches. This episode offers a rare look at how science and spirituality can coexist. Whether you're a clinician, researcher, or someone seeking deeper healing, Dr. Ruffell's story invites us to question our assumptions and expand our understanding of what true medicine can be.

Aspen Psychedelic Symposium 2024 – Hosted by Kevin Franciotti This powerful panel explores the healing potential and complex responsibilities that come with working with Ibogaine, a potent plant-based psychedelic. Moderator Kevin Franciotti guides a heartfelt and informative conversation with Talia Eisenberg, Tom Feegel, and Dr. Lola "Dr. O" Hoba, highlighting personal transformation, medical protocols, and the importance of honoring traditional knowledge. Personal Journeys with Ibogaine Talia Eisenberg shares her recovery from opioid addiction and the founding of BEOND Ibogaine, a medical treatment center in Cancun, Mexico. Her story illustrates the plant's unique power to interrupt addiction and awaken purpose. Tom Feegel, co-founder and CEO of BEOND, shares how his own trauma and long-term sobriety inspired a vision for a safe, respectful, and medically supervised environment for deep healing. Clinical and Cultural Wisdom Dr. Lola Hoba offers insights as a pharmacist and Yoruba herbalist, bridging traditional plant medicine knowledge with modern pharmacology. She describes how iboga works on multiple brain receptors and why it holds so much promise for treating addiction, depression, and trauma. She also cautions about its cardiac risks and calls for respectful, trained facilitation. Safety, Access, and Sustainability Panelists discuss the rigorous safety protocols at BEOND, including ICU-level care, psychiatric screening, and pre-treatment evaluations. They also explore broader questions: How can this medicine be offered responsibly? What does reciprocity mean in practice? BEOND supports Blessings of the Forest, a nonprofit in Gabon that works to stop poaching and protect Indigenous access to the sacred root. A Call for Balance and Respect This conversation highlights the importance of blending science, spirit, and social justice. From trauma healing to sustainable sourcing, each panelist emphasizes the need for compassion, caution, and connection. As laws change and access grows, the panel urges all involved to move forward with care—for the medicine, the people it serves, and the cultures that have stewarded it for generations.

A panel discussion with Jim Harris, Rachel Zoeller, DPT, David W. McMillan, Ph.D., and Manesh Girn, Ph.D. Recorded live at the Aspen Psychedelic Symposium In this riveting and deeply personal conversation, moderator Jim Harris is joined by three pioneers at the intersection of neuroscience, psychedelics, and disability: Dr. Rachel Zoeller (Doctor of Physical Therapy and spinal cord injury survivor), Dr. David McMillan (Assistant Professor of Neurological Surgery at the University of Miami), and Dr. Manesh Girn (neuroscientist and postdoctoral researcher with Robin Carhart-Harris at UCSF). Together, they explore how psychedelics may do far more than treat depression or catalyze mystical experiences—they may also support healing and regeneration in the nervous system. The discussion opens with an acknowledgment that our cultural understanding of psychedelics has mostly focused on their psychological and spiritual effects. But as these experts reveal, the somatic potential of psychedelics is vast and understudied. They delve into promising areas like central and peripheral neuroplasticity, the anti-inflammatory effects of psychedelics, and how these mechanisms might play a role in healing from spinal cord injuries or paralysis. Dr. Girn breaks down the science behind psilocybin's interaction with 5-HT2A serotonin receptors, not only in the brain but also in the spinal cord. These receptors, when activated, may increase neuronal excitability and even help restore lost signaling in damaged motor pathways. He suggests that psychedelics could reopen "critical periods" for neuroplasticity—windows of opportunity for the nervous system to rewire and heal. Rachel Zoeller shares her powerful lived experience as both a physical therapist and a spinal cord injury patient. Her story brings the science to life, particularly her observation that psychedelic experiences help her reconnect to parts of her body affected by paralysis. Psychedelics, she suggests, have allowed her to rebuild mind-body communication and foster compassion toward her own physical limitations. She also underscores the need for patients to cultivate body awareness, meditation, and breathwork as essential tools for safe and effective psychedelic use. Dr. McMillan, who leads outreach at the Miami Project to Cure Paralysis, provides a clinical and safety-oriented perspective. While optimistic about the potential, he urges caution—especially with individuals who have high-level spinal cord injuries and are vulnerable to serious complications like autonomic dysreflexia. He stresses that before we can bring these treatments into clinical settings, we must carefully assess physiological risk, develop precise pharmacological protocols, and prioritize patient safety. The panel also addresses cultural and spiritual interpretations of spasticity. Drawing on both shamanic and somatic perspectives, they propose that these involuntary muscle contractions could be reinterpreted not as dysfunction, but as potential portals for healing, integration, or neurological feedback. The idea that such spasms might help the brain remap muscle groups is discussed as a provocative and hopeful reframe. The conversation wraps with a call to action: to bring together indigenous wisdom, embodied knowledge, rigorous science, and community storytelling in order to chart a new frontier in psychedelic medicine—one that does not leave the disabled community behind. As McMillan puts it, "There's a lesson to psychedelia from paralysis." It's a reminder that neuropharmacology must consider not just molecules and mechanisms, but people and possibilities. Whether you're a clinician, researcher, patient, or curious explorer, this panel is a moving and illuminating look at how psychedelics could transform not only minds—but bodies. Thanks to Aspen Public Radio, Aspen Psychedelic Resource Center, Healing Advocacy Fund and Aspen Psychedelic Symposium for allowing us to share this podcast. A full agenda from the symposium can be found here.

In this special panel, Joe Moore of Psychedelics Today is joined by Sandor Iron Rope, Lakota spiritual leader and peyote practitioner, and Zach Leary, writer and advocate for psychedelic culture. Together, they explore the critical importance of respecting the cultural, spiritual, and ecological roots of plant medicines. Sandor shares powerful reflections on the Lakota worldview, the trauma of colonization, and the deep spiritual kinship indigenous peoples hold with medicinal plants. Zach reflects on the American counterculture's relationship with psychedelics, highlighting the need to preserve mysticism and community over commercialization. The panel dives into challenges around synthetic versus natural medicines, the risks of spiritual harm when practices are rushed or disconnected from tradition, and the urgent need for indigenous voices at the table as psychedelic policy evolves. Throughout, a theme emerges: slow down, honor kinship, and build right relationship with nature, culture, and spirit. This conversation offers a rare and necessary bridge between indigenous wisdom and the psychedelic resurgence, calling for respect, collaboration, and a return to deep roots to guide future generations. Learn more at ipci.life and psychedelicstoday.com.

This podcast comes from the Aspen Psychedelic Symposium from last summer. It features Diane Goldstein who is the executive director of Law Enforcement Action Partnership, Sarko Gergerian a police officer from Winthrop, Mass and Rick Doblin from MAPS. This panel was introduced by Zach Leary and was a highlight of our trip to Aspen's conference last year. We discuss new ways in which police should or could consider psychedelics and drugs more generally. Thanks to Aspen Public Radio and Aspen Psychedelic Symposium for allowing us to share this podcast.

In this episode Kyle Buller and Joe Moore speak to Zach Leary about his new book "Your Extraordinary Mind: Psychedelics in the 21st Century and How to Use Them". Kyle and Joe join Zach in person for this recording. Zach has lots of hard earned wisdom and gracefully shares it with us and with his readers. We discuss MAPS PS25, Psychedelic Churches, psychedelic overuse and much more. Join us to learn more.

In this episode, Joe Moore welcomes LP Giobbi, an internationally famous DJ, electronic music producer, and jazz pianist. LP shares the story behind Dead House, her project blending Grateful Dead samples with house music. What started as a tribute to her parents during pandemic live streams has become a celebrated musical movement. Joe and LP explore the deeper connection between music and psychedelics. They talk about Bicycle Day, the story of Albert Hofmann's famous LSD bike ride, and how psychedelics can support creativity and personal growth. LP opens up about her own experiences with psychedelics, touring burnout, and how she's learning to reconnect with her body through music and intention. The conversation also highlights LP's work with Fem House, an educational platform that empowers women and gender-expansive individuals in music production. She explains how representation, access, and support are key to shifting the music industry. This is a warm, inspiring, candid episode about breaking barriers, finding your voice, and leading purposefully. If you're in Denver, catch Dead House live at Meow Wolf on Bicycle Day!

In this episode, Kyle Buller speaks with Kayse Geheret, founder of Microdosing for Healing and instructor for Psychedelics Today's Vital program. They explore what it means to be a modern guide in the world of psychedelics. Kayse shares how microdosing has become a key entry point for many and highlights the importance of training, community, and personal growth. They discuss how not all psychedelic work involves facilitation. Some guides support through integration, education, or community organizing. The conversation covers what makes a great guide—qualities like groundedness, empathy, curiosity, and the ability to hold space. They also talk about the growing need for psychedelic-literate professionals in all fields, not just therapy. Kayse and Kyle reflect on the importance of finding the right training—whether for coaching, integration, or peer support. With more people entering the space, education and connection are more important than ever. Whether you're curious about microdosing, thinking of becoming a guide, or simply want to better support your community, this episode offers valuable insight. 🎧 Learn more at microdosingforhealing.com 🌱 Discover Vital at vitalpsychedelictraining.com

Joe Moore sits down with UK-based artist Harry Pack, whose vibrant, surreal, and often psychedelic art has captured the attention of dreamers, psychonauts, and seekers worldwide. Known for channeling the aesthetic of altered states rather than simply replicating them, Harry discusses his journey from childhood doodles to being a full-time artist working digitally in Procreate. He shares stories of deep inspiration from figures like Ott—whose album Hiraeth he recently illustrated—and how art has helped him integrate mystical experiences, recovery, and even potential alien contact. The conversation explores the therapeutic potential of art, the role of storytelling in visionary creativity, and the emergence of recurring themes in Harry's work—most notably, the enigmatic "Purple UFO." We also get into the importance of community, nature, and play in feeding the creative spirit, and Harry's aspirations to build spaces for collective art-making and integration. Follow Harry on Instagram @harrypackart and @thepurpleufo, and explore his work at harrypackart.com.

In this episode of Psychedelics Today, Joe Moore sits down with South African ethnobotanist and healer Jean-François Sobiecki to explore the rich and largely underrecognized world of African psychoactive plants. With over two decades of fieldwork and research, Jean-François sheds light on the traditional use of these plants in healing, divination, and spiritual practices across Southern Africa. Topics covered include: Jean-François's early inspirations and the ancestral roots of his herbal knowledge His discovery and documentation of 306 African psychoactive plant species The ritual use of Ubuwalu (dream-enhancing emetic infusions) and their role in personal transformation How vomiting, dietary restrictions, and sensory isolation are used as part of initiation processes Cross-cultural parallels between Southern African and Amazonian plant healing traditions The underexplored use of psychoactive plants to treat mental health conditions like schizophrenia and hysteria Ethical fieldwork, indigenous knowledge protection, and the dangers of overharvesting sacred plants Visions for healing and conservation gardens in Africa and the role these plants could play in global mental health Jean-François shares moving stories of his 15-year mentorship with a Northern Sotho diviner and healer, Letti Ponnya, and how she introduced him to African "plant teacher" medicines. His message is clear: Africa has a deep, sophisticated, and scientifically underappreciated tradition of psychoactive plant use that deserves recognition, respect, and further study. 📘 Get the book: African Psychoactive Plants: Journeys in Phytoalchemy 🌐 Learn more at: phytoalchemy.co.za 📝 Related reading: ➡️ African Psychoactive Plants: Journeys in Phytoalchemy – Chacruna

In this inspiring and far-reaching conversation, Joe Moore is joined by Vince Kadlubek, the founder and Chief Visionary Officer of Meow Wolf, the groundbreaking arts and entertainment company known for its massive, immersive art experiences. Together, they dive deep into Meow Wolf's humble DIY origins, its evolution into a multi-city creative juggernaut, and how it intertwines with psychedelic culture and expanded states of consciousness. Vince shares the story of Meow Wolf's formation in Santa Fe, the evolution from a group of passionate friends into a thousand-person company, and the power of belief, creativity, and visionary leadership. He reflects on raising funding from George R. R. Martin and major investors, navigating massive growth, and the challenge of keeping the creative spark alive in the face of institutionalization. They also discuss the upcoming Bicycle Day Portal Takeover at Meow Wolf Denver on April 19, which will feature performances, talks, and immersive experiences throughout the exhibition—with appearances from Reggie Watts, Duncan Trussell, Zach Leary, and more. From the imaginative to the esoteric, Vince and Joe explore the intersection of psychedelics and art, the nature of reality and the imaginal realm, and how to build beauty and wonder into the world around us. 🌀 Topics Covered What Meow Wolf is and how it all began Growing from a DIY collective to a nationwide phenomenon Maintaining creative spirit through growth and structure Vision, belief, and the spiritual work of creating art Navigating private equity and big funding in the arts Santa Fe's unique cultural and energetic imprint Portal's Bicycle Day event at Meow Wolf Denver Fictional character sentience and AI in immersive worlds Art as a cultural response in times of uncertainty Psychedelics as tools for accessing the imaginal and creative realms Bicycle Day at Meow Wolf Denver – April 19 Hosted by Portal, this one-of-a-kind immersive celebration of Bicycle Day takes over the entire Meow Wolf Denver space. Expect DJs, speakers, psychedelic storytelling, ecstatic dance, art, and surprises around every corner. Featured Guests Include: Reggie Watts Duncan Trussell LP GIOBI (Dead House) Zach Leary David Satori (Dirtwire) Frick Frack Blackjack Dennis Walker Veronica Lightning Horse Perez …and many more to be announced! 🌀 Plus: Pre-event Bicycle Day bike ride through Denver, curated by Portal. 📍 More Info Learn more about Meow Wolf   Check out Portal Events for Bicycle Day details 📣 Support the Show If you love what we do, please share this episode, leave a review, and consider supporting us in our Navigators Program.

In this episode, Joe interviews Fayzan Rab, an MD candidate (when we recorded) at Emory University with a background in tech at Google and a focus on the intersection of psychedelics, spirituality, and public health. Fayzan shares Emory's unique approach to psychedelic studies, emphasizing spiritual health and the lived religious and existential aspects of psychedelic experiences—what he and his team call "CERT." The conversation explores Fayzan's collaboration with health economist Elliot Marseille on economic modeling for psilocybin therapy, including their estimate that over 5 million Americans could be medically eligible. He shares insights into the policy challenges around payer systems and the importance of preparing implementation strategies before FDA approval. Fayzan also discusses his groundbreaking research on Muslim perspectives on psychedelics—revealing surprising openness, complex spiritual tensions, and a strong interest in integrating these substances into healing and faith-based frameworks. He highlights the need for inclusive infrastructure and upcoming work with clergy to deepen the conversation. Finally, they explore non-clinical psychedelic use among healthcare workers and entrepreneurs, discussing how psychedelics are being used to address burnout, identity, and life purpose. This is a powerful episode about interdisciplinary collaboration, cultural sensitivity, and the potential for psychedelics to transform not just individuals—but systems. Links Science on Spiritual Health Symposium 2025 Center for Psychedelics and Spirituality - Emory University

In this episode of Psychedelics Today, Kyle Buller is joined by Dr. Hannah McLane, founder of the SoundMind Center and SoundMind Institute. They dive deep into the evolving psychedelic landscape—touching on policy developments in New Jersey, Massachusetts, Pennsylvania, and beyond. Dr. McLane shares her experience testifying in support of psilocybin legislation and discusses the medical frameworks being explored, particularly in contrast to Oregon and Colorado's models. The conversation also explores the essential qualities of effective psychedelic facilitators, emphasizing the importance of self-awareness, lifelong learning, and doing personal inner work. Dr. McLane offers insights into the challenges of entrepreneurship in the psychedelic space, balancing mission-driven work with sustainability, and how neurodiversity and trauma have shaped her approach. Toward the end, the conversation takes a playful and heartfelt turn, reflecting on parenting, the power of curiosity, and the need for more community-centered, human-first spaces for integration and healing. This is a rich, honest, and inspiring dialogue that bridges the personal and political, the clinical and ceremonial, and the visionary future of psychedelics.

In this powerful episode of Psychedelics Today, we sit down with the team behind Natural Medicine Alaska to discuss their groundbreaking efforts to bring psychedelic reform to the state. With some of the highest rates of depression, suicide, and substance use disorders in the nation, Alaska stands at a pivotal moment in the movement for mental health transformation. Joe Moore speaks with Gina, President of Natural Medicine Alaska; David Aloff, an Alaska Native advocate; and Noria Clark, Veterans Coordinator to explore the origins of their movement, the importance of traditional healing protections, and their 2026 ballot initiative to decriminalize plant medicines and establish a regulated therapeutic model. The discussion dives into: The personal journeys that led each guest to this work How Alaska's libertarian spirit aligns with psychedelic reform The push to make Alaska the first state to include Ibogaine clinics in legislation The urgent need for veteran and first responder access to psychedelic therapy Fundraising and grassroots efforts to get the initiative on the ballot The role of Alaska's natural landscape in healing and psychedelic integration With national psychedelic policy at a crossroads, Alaska has the opportunity to become the North Star of this movement. Listen in to learn how you can support this critical campaign! Support Natural Medicine Alaska: 💰 Donate: NaturalMedicineAlaska.org 📢 Share this episode to raise awareness! 📅 Attend Arctic Visions Psychedelic Conference in August 2025: arcticvisions.com 🎧 Listen & Subscribe: Available on Spotify, Apple Podcasts, and all major platforms.

Podcast Show Notes: Psychedelics, Harm Reduction & Ethical Care with Erica Siegal In this episode of Psychedelics Today, Joe Moore sits down with Erica Siegal, founder of Nest Harm Reduction and Shine Collective, for a deep conversation on psychedelic harm reduction, ethical facilitation, and the evolving psychedelic landscape. Erica shares her journey from the Grateful Dead lot scene to festival harm reduction, social work, and leading initiatives to support survivors of psychedelic-related harm. The conversation covers: Erica's background in hospitality, social work, and psychedelic harm reduction The mission of Nest Harm Reduction in offering psychedelic therapy, integration, and community education The work of Shine Collective, a nonprofit supporting survivors of psychedelic harm and abuse The challenges of ethical facilitation, power dynamics, and the importance of clear boundaries How the psychedelic community can better address harm, accountability, and survivor support The intersection of Jewish spiritual traditions and psychedelics through Shefa This episode is a must-listen for those passionate about harm reduction, ethical psychedelic practice, and building a safer, more accountable psychedelic culture.

Army Ranger to consultant to leading one of the most respected psychedelic retreat organizations, detailing how meditation and psychedelic therapy helped him heal from trauma. The conversation covers: Neal's military background and his path to psychedelics The mission and structure of Beckley Retreats, an offshoot of the Beckley Foundation How their retreats integrate meditation, preparation, and integration for long-lasting benefits The legal landscape of psilocybin in Jamaica and the Netherlands Challenges and lessons from running a psychedelic retreat business The future of psychedelics, from global access to potential federal policy shifts Whether you're curious about immersive psychedelic retreats, the intersection of mental health and psychedelics, or the evolving legal landscape, this episode is packed with insight. Learn more about Beckley Retreats here. Hear more from Neil on Psychedelics Today here.

In this episode, Joe Moore of Psychedelics Today sits down with Paul Austin, founder of The Third Wave, to dive deep into the evolution of microdosing and its growing role in psychedelic culture. Paul shares how his journey with microdosing LSD led him to launch The Third Wave in 2015 to make psychedelics more accessible through education. The conversation explores the latest research on microdosing, including clinical trials demonstrating its potential benefits for depression, mental clarity, and creativity. Paul and Joe discuss the nuances of different microdosing protocols, the role of psychedelics in performance optimization, and the impact of these substances on neuroplasticity. They also tackle key challenges, such as the lack of robust clinical research due to regulatory hurdles and the perceived risks associated with overuse. Beyond microdosing, they touch on the broader psychedelic landscape—regulatory shifts, emerging coaching models, and the future of psychedelic-assisted transformation. The discussion even ventures into intriguing intersections between psychedelics, AI, and the possibility of extraterrestrial intelligence. Tune in for a thought-provoking conversation on where microdosing fits into the larger psychedelic resurgence.

In this episode of Psychedelics Today, Joe Moore sits down with Louis Dorian, the visionary behind Psychedelist, a groundbreaking global platform designed to support the emerging psychedelic movement. Described as a "cyber city" for all things psychedelic, Psychedelist connects individuals with treatment providers, educators, facilitators, legal experts, and even vetted product vendors in an effort to enhance accessibility and safety in this evolving space. Louis shares his journey into psychedelics, from early rave days to a transformative encounter with high-dose LSD and psilocybin that shaped his worldview. He opens up about the struggles of navigating trauma, loss, and the shortcomings of Western psychiatric care, leading him to develop his own trauma-processing techniques blending meditation, breathwork, and psychedelics. The conversation also dives deep into the broader implications of drug prohibition, harm reduction, and the role of skill-building in responsible psychedelic use. Whether you're a seeker, a skeptic, or a professional in the field, this episode offers a compelling exploration of the psychedelic landscape and the power of intentional community building. Resources: Visit Psychedelist Follow Louis Dorian on Instagram: @psychedelist More from Psychedelics Today: Website Tune in for an eye-opening discussion on the future of psychedelics, regulation, and self-exploration!

In this episode of Psychedelics Today, Joe Moore is joined by Neeka Levy and Zach Skiles of Heal Ukraine Trauma, a nonprofit bringing psychedelic-assisted therapy to veterans and civilians affected by war. They discuss the organization's origins, the impact of intergenerational trauma in Ukraine, and the evolving role of psychedelic treatments in a war-torn nation. Nika, a first-generation Ukrainian-American and neuroscience-trained psychiatric nurse practitioner, and Zach, a Marine veteran turned psychologist, share their journey into this work, highlighting the importance of group ketamine therapy as a scalable, culturally aligned solution. They explore Ukraine's complex regulatory landscape, the need for rigorous research, and the challenges of working in a war zone. They also touch on the role of psychedelics in processing moral injury, the importance of including family members in healing, and how Ukraine's collectivist culture influences therapeutic approaches. With insights on historical trauma, ethical considerations, and the potential future of MDMA and psilocybin therapy in Ukraine, this conversation sheds light on a vital, evolving effort.

In this episode, Joe interviews Josh Lipson, a Ph.D. candidate in clinical psychology at Columbia University, whose research explores the relationship between psychedelics, mystical experiences, and mental health. He discusses the complexities of studying psychedelics in real-world settings, the role of metaphysical perspectives in research, and why different individuals respond to psychedelics in such varied ways. Lipson shares his personal journey into psychedelic research, the challenges of interdepartmental collaboration, and the evolving landscape of modern psychedelic science. He also talks about: The importance of integration after psychedelic experience Why mystical experiences may not be the only path to healin The balance between stability and the chaos psychedelics can introduc The need for diverse perspectives and ways of knowing in psychedelic researc How psychedelics have shaped global consciousness and cultural perspectives and more! For links, head to the show notes page.

In this episode, Joe interviews Nico and Susan Simon: Co-founders of JourneyŌM, a concierge service looking to address the question many people are asking: How do you find the right facilitator? Through a dedicated vetting process, JourneyŌM is adding a layer of risk reduction and accountability to this strange new world, by traveling the country and amassing a network of trusted facilitators who work with all types of medicines and modalities. By getting to know guides and seekers personally, they're able to offer possible matches – and they usually agree on who would work best with each other. They talk about: Their process for building their network and finding the right facilitator for someone Their concept of going "beyond the bio" and getting to the heart of what drove someone toward becoming a guide Susan's struggle with supporting Nico through his psychedelic healing, and the need for support options for spouses not sharing in the experience The importance of community and the amazing work Nico has seen in men's groups The healing powers of movement and living as your authentic self and more! If you're interested in JourneyŌM's matchmaking, head to their site and take their assessment to begin the process. For links, head to the show notes page.

In this episode, Joe interviews renowned chemist, filmmaker, and journalist, Hamilton Morris.  After originally backing down from its first attempt in 2022, the DEA is once again looking to apply schedule I status to two lesser-known compounds: DOI (2,5-dimethoxy-4-iodoamphetamine) and DOC (2,5-dimethoxy-4-chloroamphetamine). For decades, DOI and DOC have been incredible tools for researchers studying serotonin receptors, showing promise for chronic pain, anxiety, depression, and more. Originally recorded as a livestream in November, we felt this discussion deserved more attention, as Morris was present during the hearing and saw first-hand the damage that can come from the combination of immense overreach and outdated beliefs. He talks about: The bureaucratic mess behind so much of what the DEA doe The safety profile and research capacity of DOI and DOC and complete lack of data showing recreational us The DEA's claim that advocates weren't expert The fight to protect the Sonoran Desert toad and more! While we wait for the conclusion of the hearing, head to Hamilton's Patreon to hear his daily breakdowns. For links, head to the show notes page.

In this episode, Joe interviews Jeremy Falk: certified instructor and training program developer for Kama Flight; and Dr. David Rabin, MD, Ph.D.: board-certified psychiatrist and neuroscientist, co-founder & chief Medical Officer at Apollo Neuroscience, and advisor to the non-profit, Kama Flight Foundation. Kama Flight is a wellness modality for partners, inspired by the movements of Watsu therapy, Thai massage, 5Rhythms, tango, improv dance, and Acroyoga. At the heart of it is the dynamic between the two people engaged in the dance (the 'base' and the 'voyager'), which touches on collaboration, leadership, receptivity, strength, surrender, and most importantly, trust. The communication and instant feedback shared between the partners mixed with the healing energy of the somatic movements results in moving stuck energy out of their bodies while also making them more comfortable with touch, agency, and consent – which could be extremely beneficial toward preparing for a psychedelic experience. They talk about: The four principles behind Kama Flight: permission, presence, polarity, and play The humility and humor in people trying (and failing) some of the movements, and how that is healing in itself The huge benefit in people switching between the roles of base and voyager What kind of growth they've seen in clients over extended periods of time The importance of making time for pleasure in our lives and more! For links, head to the show notes page.

In this episode, Joe interviews Ariel Clark: Anishinaabe attorney and co-founder of the Psychedelic Bar Association, a national association of lawyers involved in the highly-regulated ecosystem of psychedelic law. She talks about ethics: How do the different societal norms of each lineage we carry interact with each other? What is the cultural framing that informs those ways of knowing, and do we align with it? Is there a code of ethics we can all agree on? As the rush to legalize psychedelics increases, Clark finds herself at a crossroads of wondering if our actions are really of service to the greater good: Can the overculture legalize psychedelics effectively, while doing less harm to Indigenous culture and the medicines themselves? She discusses: The challenges of working in psychedelic law with all of the other factors at play: How do you ethically support a client? The idea that these medicines can have agency – even the synthetic ones Shifting from a Western mind state of "what are my rights?" to an Indigenous frame of: "What are my responsibilities?" Her story of healing from debilitating back pain with psychedelics and spiritual alignment The need for public education to be at the center of future legislation attempts and more! For links, head to the show notes page.

In this episode, Joe interviews Angie Roullier: longtime veteran of the cannabis industry and author of the book, Pot for the People: The Plant, the People, and the Shop Policies of Cannabis. Diagnosed with the neurological disorder, Charcot-Marie-Tooth (CMT), Roullier tells the story of how cannabis replaced all her medications, which led to a personal journey and career centered on cannabis education. She talks about the challenges patients face in today's rapidly evolving cannabis markets, misconceptions surrounding cannabis, the ignorance of many budtenders, and how not knowing enough can lead to an underwhelming high. She discusses how she educated people in shops and how her book was written to teach people how to ask the right questions to not only ensure a safe and effective experience, but to also give them the experience they're looking for. She talks about: -The early days of Michigan's medical program and the state's current attempt to essentially combine medical and recreational markets -Cannabis culture and an emerging "I can take more milligrams than you" bravado -Why understanding terpenes and the entourage effect can be game-changing toward finding a preferred strain -The rise of hemp-derived THC products, the regulatory loopholes they exploit, and their potential risks -Why home growers and caregivers are essential to the cannabis ecosystem and more! For links, head to the show notes page.

In this episode, Kyle interviews Tommy Aceto: former Navy Seal and trauma medic, and now, ambassador for the Veteran Mental Health Leadership Coalition and advisor at Beond Ibogaine. He talks about how much the psychedelic space focuses on healing and mental health, but doesn't talk enough about the overall wellness that can come from a consistent practice: that the more you become aware of your body, emotions, and breath, the more robust your neural pathways will become – and that you can actually change your neurochemistry and build a more energetically powerful system. With these pathways being opened, fewer psychedelic experiences are necessary, and with practice, these mind states can be achieved simply through meditation or breathwork. The idea of surrender and entering a state of receivership is scary, but he believes the most important skill to begin that transformation is to learn how to truly let go. He also talks about: What the psychedelic scene is like in Nashville and the south His work with the Kentucky Opioid Abatement Advisory Commission and what happened with the bill to grant 42 million for ibogaine research His most powerful 5-MeO-DMT experience and how it reconnected him with the divine The science and practice of gratitude: how reframing painful experiences can actually rewire the brain How cold exposure (notably ice baths) can prepare your system for a psychedelic experience and more! Happy New Year from all of us at Psychedelics Today. Let's hope for big psychedelic wins in 2025! For links, head to the show notes page.

In this episode, Joe interviews Melanie Curtis: world record professional skydiver, keynote speaker, coach, co-host of the Trust the Journey podcast, and author of How to Fly: Life Lessons From a Professional Skydiver. Curtis shares her journey from taking her first transformative leap out of an airplane to becoming a leader in skydiving, public speaking, and now, the integration of psychedelics into personal growth. She discusses the parallels between skydiving and working with psychedelics – most notably in the idea of leaping into the unknown, trusting the universe, and in the potential that can be unlocked after you've come back down to earth. While relatively new to the psychedelic space, she stresses the importance of sharing your story and opening up dialogues, no matter how small you think your voice may be. She talks about: Her early psilocybin journeys and recent ayahuasca experiences How she came out of the psychedelic closet to her Mother, and learning of the power of small steps and trusting the universe Realizing how her Father's behavior affected her, and how it has made her more connected to her femininity and other women The power of confidence and how much better we'd all be if the fear of humiliation wasn't so prominent in our lives and more! For links, head to the show notes page.

In this episode, Joe interviews Dan Ronken: licensed professional counselor and addiction counselor with a private practice in Boulder, CO, called Inclusion Recovery, and lead trainer and facilitator for the Integrative Psychiatry Institute (IPI). He tells his story of going from a sponsored BMX racer to three stints in rehab before the age of 14, and what he's learned from his experiences in recovery over the years: that there is a wide range of what 'in recovery' actually means, that abstinence-only and 12-step models don't work for many, that connection and community – and consistency in both – are enormous parts of what actually leads to overcoming an addiction, and more. As recovery communities cautiously begin to talk about psychedelics, he highlights the importance of nuance in understanding addiction, the need for open-mindedness toward new therapeutic approaches, and the need for diverse support networks that welcome discussions around psychedelics. He talks about: Inducing alcohol cravings before an intramuscular ketamine shot as a way of using neuroplasticity to rewire the brain's relationship with alcohol How Bill Wilson, co-founder of Alcoholics Anonymous, benefitted greatly from LSD in the 50s, and how Ronken originally scoffed at such a concept The growing visibility of psychedelics in popular media, as seen in shows like "Loudermilk" and "Ted Lasso" The benefits of sober communities coming together for active and healthy activities and more! For links, head to the show notes page.

In this episode, Joe interviews Shauheen Etminan, Ph.D.: co-founder of VCENNA, a drug discovery and development company, and Magi Ancestral Supplements, which sells nootropics inspired by ancient Eastern traditions. He discusses his journey into the world of plant extraction, how he first discovered compounds like Haoma and Harmaline, and why he decided to bring Iranian tradition to the psychedelic renaissance. He explores the similarities between psychedelics and experiences found in mystical traditions, and how that historical context can inform modern psychedelic practice. He sees this exemplified most with dream recollection, attending to the emotions found within dreams, and the concept of wakeful dreaming, where one can access unconscious insights consciously, through the liminal (or hypnagogic) state between dreaming and wakefulness.  He discusses: Zoroastrianism and how the teachings of Zarathustra on understanding morality have inspired hi Syrian Rue in Iranian culture, and how it compares to the Banisteriopsis Caapi vine: Is it actually stronger than ayahuasca Henry Corbin's practice of embodied imagination and Jung's concept of active imaginatio Other less-discussed compounds he's interested in, like Ephedra and Saffron and more! For links, head to the show notes page.

In this episode, Joe interviews Paul Grof: research psychiatrist, clinician, author, brother of Stanislav, professor of psychiatry at the University of Toronto, and director of the Ottawa Mood Disorders Center. He talks about his extensive career in psychiatry, and how trying to understand the cause of mood disorders led him to focusing on the very nature of consciousness. He believes that consciousness is a collaborative creation between the brain, body, and external fields, and that the key to connecting with the mechanistic side of academia is through talking about the unexplainable – near death experiences, pre-cognition, remote viewing – and of course, them having positive non-ordinary experiences through psychedelics or other means. He talks about how much we're connected, how much our bodies remember, and how much society could change for the better if enough people experience the transpersonal. He also discusses: His thoughts on legal frameworks, education, integration, and whether or not psychedelics will get stuck in psychiatry The importance of new study designs in research, as double blinding doesn't make sense for psychedelics Concerns over spiritual emergence and emergencies: How much is the responsibility of the therapist or facilitator? The global rise in depression and addiction, especially in the younger generation, and the need for techniques for people to help themselves The work he's doing with remote healing circles, using strong intention, positive emotions, and visualized healing and more! For links, head to the show notes page.

In this episode, Joe interviews Kat Murti: executive director of Students for Sensible Drug Policy (SSDP), the largest nationwide network of students fighting to replace the War on Drugs with policies rooted in evidence, compassion, and human rights. She talks about how she became interested in drug policy, which not surprisingly aligns with the many problems of The War on Drugs: how it's a war on people, personal liberty, and our communities; how laws are not effective in enforcing morality; and how getting in trouble with the law often incentivizes more illegal activity. We all know that our current system doesn't work and that the drug war no longer appeals to most reasonable people, but how can we move towards sensible policy? She discusses previous successes (both at SSDP and before), and some of their current projects, from the work they're doing with fentanyl strip training and distribution, to education work at festivals and their program, "Just Say Know." She talks about: How drug policy isn't going to look the same everywhere and shouldn't: How do we effectively use different models in different places together for the benefit of everyone? The dangers of forcing drug users through drug courts and treatment centers The repealing of Oregon's Measure 110 and how it's unfair to blame its failure on problems that already existed in the state Their new focus on how the War on Drugs specifically affects women and reproductive rights, inspired by Louisiana recently scheduling Mifepristone and Misoprostol and much more. The SSDP's biggest battle now is fighting the DEA's attempted scheduling of DOI and DOC, two compounds that have been used in research for decades and pose no real threat to safety – which would drastically derail a ton of research. They just completed a 10-day hearing with the DEA. Watch Joe and Hamilton Morris' breakdown here, and stay tuned to SSDP and PT for updates.  For links, head to the show notes page.

In this episode, Joe interviews Howard Kornfeld, MD: renowned pain medicine expert, addiction specialist, early pioneer in psychedelic medicine, and currently the director of recovery medicine at Recovery Without Walls. As a leader in the utilization of buprenorphine, he talks about how it came about as a treatment for addiction and chronic pain, its similarities to MDMA, and how its fast-tracked FDA approval could give us clues on how to get MDMA approved. He also dives into the history of ketamine, its unique effects compared to other substances, its potential for abuse, and what can happen with overuse. And he talks a lot about the connection he sees between psychedelics and the prevention of nuclear war, inspired by Sasha Shulgin's opinion that nothing changes minds faster than psychedelics. He points out that when there is darkness, there is light: Albert Hofmann's famed bicycle trip on acid happened 3 months after the nuclear chain reaction was invented. Can the growing use of psychedelics inspire the kind of change we need to save the world? He also discusses: The need for new study designs as we come to terms with the fact that double-blind studies don't really work with psychedelics Criticisms of the FDA's denial of MDMA: Was the process unfair? His predictions that advocates will begin pushing to decriminalize MDMA at the state level The books, Tripping on Utopia and Drugged How he played a part in prisons ending the practice of killing prisoners with cyanide gas and more!  For links, head to the show notes page.

In this episode, Joe interviews Veronica Lightning Horse Perez: therapist, speaker, author, activist, and co-chief proponent for the Natural Medicine Health Act of 2022 (Prop 122); and Sean McAllister: attorney specializing in the regulatory, health care, business, and religious freedom aspects of psychedelic medicines, and one of the drafters of Prop 122. This episode was recorded live at the Plant Medicine Cafe in Denver, CO – which served as an unofficial Prop 122 headquarters – and cohosted by Meaghan Len, co-founder of the U.S.' first ayahuasca church, Sanctuary of the Sovereign Heart. They dive into the details of Prop 122 and discuss why it's the most freeing legislation we've seen, but also very complicated in the clash between an expensive regulated side and a risky and ambiguous decrim side. While the implementation process continues, they've learned that there is still a huge need for public education, and that one of the most important tasks now is to be hyper aware of how legislators will try to change what people already agreed on. They discuss: The Federal vs. state legality issues we still see even after such sweeping legislation The huge gap in understanding why Indigenous communities are upset and why they need to be included in all discussions The Religious Freedom Restoration Act and the complications of religion when many of us simply feel spiritual The natural vs. synthetic fallacy and the future of churches offering a synthetic sacrament The ontological shock many have after a big experience and why churches and community are needed to help guide people and more!  For links, head to the show notes page.

In this episode, Joe interviews two members of the Heroic Hearts Project: Founder and President, Jesse Gould; and Director of Development and Head of Family Relations, Allison Wilson. Gould gives a background of Heroic Hearts Project and discusses their current projects and future goals, and Wilson talks about her nonprofit, The Hope Project, and its recent merger with HHP to bring more of a focus to the other side of veteran healing: the families of veterans. While Heroic Hearts and other veteran-aligned organizations have been an answer to many vets unable to find help otherwise (and frustrated with the inconsistencies of the VA), they talk a lot about that missing piece – how crucial it is to have family involved in a veteran's reintegration, and how that healing can impact future generations. "The Veteran's Guide to Psychedelics: A Preparation and Integration Workbook" was recently released, with all proceeds going to HHP, and they are hosting their first Gala event, "Operation: Freedom To Heal," this week, December 5, in Los Angeles. The goal of the event is to fundraise, gather community, and recognize the supporters who have gotten Heroic Hearts to where it is today, and will feature live and silent auctions and a performance by Melissa Etheridge. Email Allison@heroicheartsproject.org if you'd like to attend. For links, head to the show notes page.

In this episode, Victoria interviews Max Montrose: Founder of the Trichome Institute, a company offering online courses and certifications on cannabis. Montrose explores the scientific and sensory aspects of cannabis, diving into the role of the aromatic compound, indole, and how the fresher and more aromatic (usually pungent) the flower is, the higher chance for having a more psychedelic experience. He dives into ways to maximize the psychedelic nature of cannabis, largely through "interprening," which is his method for learning about a plant's effects from smelling buds, measuring your sense of sensation and where you feel the smell is hitting you. And he talks a lot about intention and how the power of a cannabis experience can be determined by the reverence you have for the plant and the intention you put behind each inhale: It is a "total reflection of how much you care." He also discusses: The range of cannabis effects: how it can be just weed – something mindlessly smoked all day with a slight numbing effect – or an incredibly powerful, life-changing experience The importance of skillset being added to the concept of set and setting: the skills you have (and can practice) for helping you create your own setting to get through a tough time Issues with the legal cannabis industry about accuracy of strains, shelf life, and the ability to smell the product The lack of money in cannabis research: Why is no one funding research into indole chemistry? Why indica and sativa are not accurate terms, and how aroma is more of a factor than we realize and more!  For links, head to the show notes page.

In this episode, Kyle interviews Pierre Bouchard, LPC, LM: therapist, minister, and former professional vinyl DJ specializing in psychedelic-assisted psychotherapy and ministry.  Bouchard introduces his 3-axis framework for psychedelic integration, which looks at the personal, the transpersonal, and, with time, seeing how the lessons learned from non-ordinary experiences and personal work are expressing to the world: How can we use what we've learned to show up better? How can we use our gifts to be of service to others? What is stopping us? He also talks about the importance of building a foundation for holding the experience of a psychedelic journey - that you have to first build an ego to later dissolve it - but recognizes the tricky balance of not strengthening an ego so much that it gets in the way.  He discusses: The broad scope of what someone can mean when they say "psychedelic healing" The importance of keeping the 3 axes in harmony - that you should always be attending to each Why someone beginning a healing journey needs to be smart, curious, and desperate The challenge of discerning between an entity or a projection: How do we know what to take from that experience? Why practitioners and therapists need to find a balance between being confident and humble and more! For links, head to the show notes page.

In this episode, Joe interviews Bria Tavakoli, LPCC, MA, MS: a therapist specializing in relational and sex therapy, with a focus on helping clients integrate psychedelic experiences. She shares her personal journey with psychedelics and how they unlocked deep trauma, allowing her to develop a level of comfort with intimacy, love, and her sexuality. She talks about the parallels between psychedelic journeys and sexual experiences, and how both can be gateways to unexplored parts of ourselves, as well as catalysts for healing and transformation. She discusses society's cultural shame surrounding our sexuality, why we need to view sexuality from a wellness-based model, and how psychedelics can help couples grow together, and at times, really challenge their relational structures. When asked how to combine sex and psychedelics, she answers, "very carefully." She also discusses: The immense importance of creating a safe space for couples discussing their intimacy How clients reporting sexual concerns is usually a cheat code to determining what their real issues are Ethical and practical considerations for combining psychedelics and sex therapy, related to stories of concerning sexual behavior in the space Why humor and lightness is so important in this work The importance of honoring individual capacity and being true to yourself when exploring new experiences and more!  For links, head to the show notes page.

In this episode, Kyle interviews Juan Pablo Cappello: co-founder and former CEO of Nue Life Health, whose assets were subsequently acquired by Beckley Waves. Cappello discusses the current challenges and controversies facing a ketamine industry that has moved much faster than anyone anticipated, and stresses the need to create industry-wide standards – especially for at-home ketamine – before the government imposes its own standards on us. Citing the Matthew Perry case and other bad behavior from providers, he talks about the risks of overpromising and underdelivering, the lack of integration in the majority of at-home ketamine frameworks, and how profit-driven, subscription model motives have overshadowed patient care and ethical practices. He also discusses: The complications from personal perspectives and passions shifting after a psychedelic experience, and how that can change over time The FDA's recent rejection of MDMA: What would have happened to MDMA if it had been approved? Hope for more Native American churches, and what they can learn from the DEA's denial of Soul Quest The story of a bump of cocaine ruining the hope for cannabis to be decriminalized under the Carter administration Our current Wild West of gas station CBD, Delta-8, and barely-regulated vapes and more!  For links, head to the show notes page.

In this episode, Kyle interviews Geoff Bathje, Ph.D.: licensed psychologist, researcher, former Full Professor, and co-founder of Sana Healing Collective, a Chicago-based non-profit focusing on ketamine-assisted therapy and psychedelic integration. He talks about what he feels is one of the largest factors in our mental health crisis: the individualistic and neoliberal lens Western culture has placed on mental health and how it neglects the massive systemic and relational factors that are affecting us all. He digs into how we got so alienated and how psychedelics and non-ordinary states of consciousness can not only help us think critically and solve problems, but also move us out of this individualistic framework of healing and more into a collective one. How do we use psychedelics to fix our relationships and find our community? He discusses: The challenge of knowing when to work for relationships and when to just end them, especially in the afterglow of a big experience Group ketamine experience vs. individual, how groups can help facilitators find patterns, and how ketamine works with somatic therapy His paper, "Psychedelic integration: An analysis of the concept and its practice" and his visual model of integration showing the different domains of our personal experience What he thinks will happen next in drug development: Will therapy be left out after Lykos' failure with MDMA? The importance of moving beyond aggressive criticism and moving into world building and more!  For links, head to the show notes page.

In this episode, Joe interviews Thomas Feegel: co-founder of Beond Ibogaine, an ibogaine treatment and research facility in Cancún, Mexico. When Feegel first heard of ibogaine 16 years ago, he found that people were having great success, but nobody could recommend where to go for treatment. So he worked to create what was needed: a combination of a hospital, mental health treatment facility, retreat center, and resort, with the proper infrastructure in place, employees with ICU experience, exhaustive HIPAA-compliant admission criteria, regular data collection, and a major focus on safety. Addressing the recent Rolling Stone article about the tragic death of a patient at Beond in 2022 (interestingly, 2 days after his initial dose), he discusses what he feels was inaccurate, largely related to what could be perceived as a suggestion that there wasn't enough screening or that corners were cut. With no official reason given for the patient's death, it brings into question just how safe one can be, especially with people whose bodies and hearts have been through so much. How much hidden harm is created by the stress of PTSD and addiction? He discusses: The complexity of journalism and drawing conclusions from limited information The limitations of conventional addiction treatments and the sad numbers around how many people stick with rehab The importance of collecting as much data as possible about each patient, at regular intervals, prior to, during, and after the experience The need for a regulating group to create standards around admission and administration procedures for ibogaine and more!  We're releasing this episode on Veterans Day because Beond's program was co-developed by veterans, military medical personnel, and active-duty law enforcement officers who have seen how much ibogaine can help. If you know a vet who is struggling, be sure to let them know what's possible with psychedelic therapy.  For links, head to the show notes page.

In this episode, David interviews Floris Wolswijk: senior project manager at Delphi; co-founder of FLO coaching; and founder of Blossom, an online informational hub collecting psychedelic courses, trials, companies, and over 2000 categorized research articles. When Wolswijk began Blossom, he was barely able to fill a weekly newsletter, and now he's adding a new study nearly every day, perfectly illustrating the exponential growth in psychedelic research. He talks about why so much research is happening (and why more isn't), the trends he's seen, the benefit in research changing people's minds, and what he hopes for in the future. What can the research community learn from existing real world evidence, and how can retreat centers and underground communities contribute? He also discusses: What culture is like in the Netherlands, where psilocybin truffles are legal Drug development and the possibilities of adjusting existing molecules What we can learn from the Lykos and FDA situation The economics of psychedelics and how insurance will likely be the next big conversation His work with FLO coaching, and how coaching, acceptance and commitment therapy, and psilocybin can work together and more!  For links, head to the show notes page.

In this episode, Joe interviews Jessica Tracy: head of sales & partnerships at Enthea, a company that works with employers, unions, and employee assistance programs to be able to offer ketamine-assisted therapy (and psilocybin where it's legal) to employees. She talks about her path to psychedelics and how the shifts in her life led her to want to help others, finding Enthea and using her 15 years of experience in healthcare to make an immediate difference. She explains how the process works for an employee of a company Enthea works with, and the importance of evidence-based medical policy and rigorous screening to make sure people are getting the best intervention possible. One of Enthea's largest clients is Dr. Bronner's, who reported incredible improvements after employees used the benefit, with a 65% improvement in depression scores and an 86% improvement in PTSD. She also discusses: How psychedelics bring awareness to what we need to work on Less-discussed treatment modalities, like electroconvulsive therapy (ECT), transcranial magnetic stimulation (TMS), and stellate ganglion block (SGB) The inefficiency of traditional talk therapy: 50% of people only see really good benefits after 20 sessions The importance of viewing mental health as individualized care: What else can we offer to people who haven't been helped by traditional methods? The research that she wants to see, like measures in how present or productive people are before and after experiences and more! For links, head to the show notes page.

In this episode, Joe and Kyle finally meet up again for the first episode of Psychedelics Lately: the updated version of the much-missed Psychedelics Weekly, where they'll meet each month to talk about the most interesting stories in psychedelics. The main story this month is the fate of Massachusetts' Question 4: Regulated Access to Psychedelic Substances Initiative (The Natural Psychedelic Substances Act). They discuss what they like about the bill, its opposition, and its support, including actress Eliza Dushku Palandjian, who went from a diagnosis of PTSD and an in-the-psychedelic-closet underground experience to becoming a very public, soon-to-be certified psychedelic facilitator. If you live in Massachusetts, make sure to read about the bill and get out and vote this Tuesday (or now, if you're registered for early voting). They also discuss: Joe's recent east coast travels to Harvard and the PhilaDelic conference Alfred North Whitehead and Process Philosophy The Psychedelics and Pain Association, and Court Wing's involvement in the first published case report of complex regional pain syndrome being treated with psilocybin The scientific community needing to embrace more experientially-based approaches and practices The challenge of making meaning out of the mystical and more!  For links, head to the show notes page.

In this episode, Joe interviews Dr. Peter Sjöstedt-Hughes: philosopher, lecturer at the University of Exeter, co-director of the Breaking Convention conference, and author who most recently co-edited Philosophy and Psychedelics: Frameworks for Exceptional Experience. He discusses how the work of William James and an early psilocybin experience led him to an interest in philosophy and psychedelics, and he dives deep into several philosophical concepts: panpsychism, pantheism, ethical pluralism, teleology, process theology, Whitehead's fallacy of misplaced concreteness, and more. He believes that science has lost touch with metaphysics – the branch of philosophy that examines the basic structure of reality – and that studying metaphysics will lead to more beneficial experiences with the non-ordinary: If you can understand and frame the experience, you'll have a much better chance of being able to integrate its lessons. He discusses: The complexity of ethics and the need to ask more philosophical questions His book, Neo-Nihilism, which argued that there are no shared objective morals The West's' obsession with scientism and believing only what can be reducible to matter: Is science honest if it ignores the ineffable? The connections between philosophical frameworks and religion: Would studying comparative religion help us better understand each other? The need for more experiential research and more!  Sjöstedt-Hughes is the co-lead on Exeter's 12-month postgraduate certificate course, "Psychedelics: Mind, Medicine, and Culture," and is finalizing his next book, a manual on psychedelics and metaphysics. For links, head to the show notes page.

In this episode, Joe interviews 4 members of the Penn Psychedelics Collaborative: Co-Founder, Taylor Andrews Flatt, PMHNP; Associate Director, Victor Pablo Acero, Ph.D.; Professor in Fine Arts and Co-Director of the Weitzman School of Design, Jackie Tileston; and Executive Director and Director of the Penn Program for Mindfulness, Michael Baime, MD. Recorded earlier this month at the PhilaDelic conference – one of the primary initiatives of the PPC – they discuss their paths to psychedelics and why this transdisciplinary collection of faculty, researchers, and clinicians at the University of Pennsylvania was so necessary. Viewing psychedelics from different perspectives (Flatt from nursing, Acero from bioengineering, Tileston from the art and mysticism side of things, and Baime from a more mindfulness point of view), their group is a case study in collaboration – a place where connections can be catalyzed and shared goals can be addressed from different angles. How far can we go when different groups start working together? They discuss: The concept of psychedelics not just being used to treat conditions, but to make us healthier Psychedelic art and the idea of the art itself being psychoactive rather than just representations of trips The work of David Glowacki and bringing about non-ordinary states of consciousness through VR Research into salvia being used to alleviate stroke symptoms How a lack of funding can really create focus and more!  For links, head to the show notes page.

In this episode, Joe interviews two people on the frontlines of the campaign for Massachusetts' Question 4: The Natural Psychedelic Substances Act: Graham Moore and Community Engagement Director, Jamie Morey. They discuss the specifics of the initiative, listed on the ballot as the "Limited Legalization and Regulation of Certain Natural Psychedelic Substances," including the removal of criminal penalties for limited personal use, and the establishment of a regulatory agency that will provide therapeutic access to any of five natural psychedelics (psilocybin, psilocin, DMT, mescaline, and ibogaine). They tell their stories of how they discovered the power of psychedelics, and discuss the work they're doing, educating a fairly interested – but still very hesitant – public about the bill and the importance of it passing this November. They talk about: The significance of this happening in Massachusetts, especially with the amount of biomedical research happening in Boston The story of a member of Baystaters creating a fraudulent persona in a veterans advocacy group to fight against legalization efforts The challenge of getting people to publicly support initiatives that deal with illegal substances The power of small steps in legislation: Before this bill, MA had the most local measures in the U.S. How data collection should be handled at service centers and more!  If you live in Massachusetts, learn about the bill here, and make sure to get out and cast your vote in November.  For links, head to the show notes page.

In this episode, Joe interviews Diana Quinn, ND: naturopathic doctor, healing justice practitioner, and director of clinical education at the Naropa Center for Psychedelic Studies, where she directs their Psilocybin Facilitator Training certificate program. She discusses her path from anthropology to naturopathy, and eventually to psychedelics and activism, finding a framework for psychedelic education grounded in healing justice, which recognizes the impact of collective trauma on all of us, seeks to reclaim lost or stolen models of healing, focuses on equity and accessibility, and brings an anti-oppression lens to training programs to give students a greater capacity for culturally responsive care. She encourages seeing things from an anti-capitalist viewpoint, and recognizes the huge clash between using such powerful and mystical medicines inside structures so embedded with problematic human qualities. How can you build inside of these Western systems without being affected by that capitalist energy? She discusses: The importance of respecting plants from other cultures – that no healing or consciousness expansion is justifiable when it threatens an entire species The challenge of integrating the weirdest parts of non-ordinary states into education: How does a Western framework come to terms with the ineffable? How colonialism and the culture born from it has hurt us all The importance of finding your own lineage and what is sacred to you The work of Rick Tarnas and the amazing patterns we can find in astrology and more!  For links, head to the show notes page.

In this episode, Joe interviews Rick Doblin, Ph.D.: founder and president of the Multidisciplinary Association for Psychedelic Studies (MAPS), and former board member at Lykos Therapeutics, MAPS' public benefit subsidiary. Doblin tells his side of the story: that the FDA's concerns with double blinding not working had been fully addressed ahead of time, that they had negotiated agreements that were no longer agreed to when new FDA employees came on board, that there was a lot of confusion from going back and forth with the FDA on how Phase 3 studies should be designed, and more. He believes that Lykos made a massive mistake in assuming that provable science was more important than public opinion, and that ignoring critics who were saying whatever they wanted caused them to lose control of the narrative – which clearly influenced the advisory committee. While Lykos figures out their next steps with the FDA, MAPS is focusing their attention on what they feel is most important in light of this ruling: better public education and drug policy. He talks about: How there's a bias at the FDA to be harsh: Does automatically saying no just make it look like you're being rigorous? The work of the Dutch government in researching MDMA, and Lykos' odd decision to not highlight any of it Massachusetts' Legalization and Regulation of Psychedelic Substances initiative, and the huge opportunity for progress at the local level Why federal agents at Burning Man work so hard to give tickets to attendees for smoking cannabis Why sharing stories of your positive experiences with psychedelics is so important and more!  MAPS has announced that 2025's Psychedelic Science conference will be in Denver, June 16-20, and will have experiential opportunities before and after.  For links, head to the show notes page.

In this episode, Kyle interviews Gabriela Galindo: program coordinator of FLOWS (Foundations for Leaders Organizing for Water and Sustainability), an organization working towards social and environmental justice, ecosystem restoration, community building, and the preservation and protection of Indigenous medicines. She discusses her entry point to psychedelics and how she got involved with Colorado's Natural Medicine Health Act (Prop 122) when she saw a complete absence of Indigenous representation in the legislature. The narrative that we all have a right to healing and that these medicines belong to everyone is pretty common today, but Galindo argues that this is not fair: that each plant has its own history, and that each is protected by its own culture. Shouldn't the communities that have stewarded these medicines for centuries have a say in whether their medicine is going to be shared and legislated at the state level? Shouldn't they have the ability to consent to these new proposals? She talks about: Why she likes using 'movement' instead of 'renaissance' when discussing our psychedelic culture What we could learn from Indigenous people's harmony with nature as we face an ongoing climate crisis The balancing act of pleasing everyone: Would decriminalization be as supported if Indigenous communities wanted to keep some of these substances criminalized for the protection of their culture and their ecosystems? How psychedelic communities should evolve to include community work into their routines: What do local communities need and how can you help? The importance of knowing when to step aside and truly center a community voice and more!  For links, head to the show notes page.

In this episode, Joe interviews Mareesa Stertz: lead of strategy/communications at the Global Psychedelic Society, co-founder of Lucid News, and filmmaker, currently finalizing her second feature film, "Confessions of a Psychonaut." She discusses her path to wanting to create the film: how she always felt like something was wrong with her but didn't know exactly how to start her healing path, how seven ayahuasca trips didn't give her the breakthrough experience she wanted, and how she realized over time that she didn't have a hidden moment of trauma to overcome, but rather, lots of "little t" trauma – something that a lot of us have, without necessarily knowing it. She saw the true power of people sharing their stories of becoming healthier, and has found that aligning our stories to the classic framework of the Hero's Journey and Carl Jung's concept of individuation is the perfect formula for self-awareness, growth, and finding more meaning in life. She talks about: How the Hero's Journey makes sense of the abyss, and how the abyss helps us to see how much we've been programmed Her formula for a good story: who you were before the event, the event, and how it changed you Her Sphinx project, where she aims to bring giant sphinxes (from "The NeverEnding Story") to Burning Man, as a way for people to determine if they are "worthy" Her "Talk Box" art installation, which involves strangers meeting in a confession booth to engage in meaningful conversations based on a wheel of questions The power of group coherence and how much stronger a healing container can become over time and more!  Stertz is offering a course on finding where the Hero's Journey is in each of our lives: "Emerge: A Journey of Self-Authorship" begins on October 29. Click here for more info. For links, head to the show notes page.

In this episode, Joe interviews Micah Stover: certified psychedelic somatic therapist and author of the upcoming book, Healing Psychedelics: Innovative Therapies for Trauma and Transformation; and Craig Heacock, MD: adolescent, adult, and addiction psychiatrist, and host of the Back from the Abyss podcast. Stover discusses the inspiration for the book: the ancestral voices she started hearing after she had children, being featured on Heacock's podcast and becoming fascinated with people's healing stories, and her move to Mexico, where she learned the beauty of a less complicated and more connected life. She learned that the village you surround yourself with is really the medicine, and that existing in the mysteries of life can be much more beneficial than trying to solve everything. Combining her Western training with more Indigenous perspectives, she wondered: Where do science and spirit meet? And how can they dance together? They discuss: Stover's early days of offering medicine journeys in Mexico, and how much leaning on elders from all backgrounds matters The importance of discernment in non-ordinary states: Is spiritual bypassing just the absence of discernment? How finding a village can be just connecting to the earth: How much of our trauma is from a "nature deficit disorder"? The power of transference and the relationship between therapists/facilitators and clients The idea that modern psychology has fallen short because we've sterilized love out of the room, and the challenge of bringing love back as part of a safe container and more!  The book, which is laid out somewhat like a workbook (and which Heacock wrote the foreward to) comes out on November 4 and is available for pre-order now. For links, head to the show notes page.

In this episode, David interviews Glauber Assis, Ph.D.: research associate at the Interdisciplinary Group for Psychoactive Studies, director of the Psychedelic Parenthood community, Vital instructor, and leader of Jornadas de Kura, a plant medicine center in Brazil. He talks about growing up in Brazil in the shadows of colonialism, and how he felt his early experiences with ayahuasca and the Santo Daime church decolonized his mind, changing his relationship with himself and his family, and eventually leading him to start his own church: Céu da Divina Estrela. He believes that to truly know ourselves, we need to experience other cultures, and to truly see the commonalities between each other, we need to recognize just how different we all are. He feels that true growth is not found in the substance or experience, but in the relationships we have with others, and our ability to change. He discusses: -How ayahuasca becoming a global phenomenon is revitalizing traditions that may have otherwise been lost -His first travels to the U.S. and why we need to stop romanticizing other cultures -The power of live music in a ceremonial group setting -The birth of his third child in a car, and what psychedelic parenthood really means -The importance of understanding multiple different frameworks and being able to use them together and more!  Bonus: This episode features the first live performance in PT podcast history – a song Assis wrote in the Santo Daime tradition. Click here to head to the show notes page.

In this episode, Joe interviews award-winning novelist and screenwriter, Norman Ohler. Following in the footsteps of "Blitzed: Drugs in the Third Reich," his newest book, "Tripped: Nazi Germany, the CIA, and the Dawn of the Psychedelic Age," tells the story of how the Nazi's passion for methamphetamine turned into a curiosity about LSD, and how their experiments with trying to harness LSD as a truth drug eventually led to the CIA continuing their research under their MKUltra program. The book came about from trying to understand why LSD never became medicine – a question posed by his father, when discussing how LSD could help with his wife's progressing Alzheimer's symptoms. He discusses: His path to becoming a "gonzo historian" and how his early psychedelic research was inspired by a friend's discovery of methamphetamine tablets from the 40s Henry Beecher's LSD experiments with students at Harvard, and how researchers often didn't know they were contributing to MKUltra His recent appearances on The Joe Rogan Experience and Jesse Watters Primetime His mother's experience with microdosing LSD and why police showed up at his father's door with a warrant Why he believes psychedelics will be legalized in the U.S. in the next 10 years and more!  For links, head to the show notes page.

In this episode, Kyle interviews Lana Pribic, M.Sc: host of the Modern Psychedelics podcast, certified professional life coach, and founder of Kanna Wellness.  She talks about her early days of rave culture and MDMA, to exploring other substances, to where she is today: finding joy in the simple things in life, embracing recreational psychedelics, and continuously working on herself while understanding that psychedelic experiences are not the be-all, end-all medicine, and that taking space to integrate learned lessons is where the true potential lies. She recognizes that many of us set out to heal trauma or work on something specific, but often get caught in a "healing trap," where a victim energy ends up holding us back –  and keeps us coming back. When is the healing done? When do these experiences become a habit or escape? What are we not integrating?  She discusses:  The "7 levels of energy" framework she uses with clients How she works with clients who return to unhealthy patterns after a big experience The judgment of the psychedelic space, both for people who stop using psychedelics and for people who return to the well perhaps too ofte Her relationship with her mother and how her mother's cancer treatment inspired her to create Kanna Wellnes How much of a factor acceptance is in finding joy in the mundane  and more! Serving Canada (for now), Kannawellness.com just launched, and features kanna extract 8 times more potent than what is on the market today. If you're curious, use code PT10 at checkout for 10% off your order! For links, head to the show notes page.

In this episode, Joe interviews Ingmar Gorman, Ph.D.: clinical psychologist and co-founder and CEO of Fluence, a psychedelic education company. Gorman served as a co-principal investigator and study therapist on MAPS' Phase II and III clinical trials for MDMA-assisted psychotherapy for PTSD, and works with drug sponsors: training, developing the components for clinical trials, and designing therapy manuals. With his insider's perspective, he discusses the reasons why he believes the FDA rejected MDMA-assisted psychotherapy for PTSD: from ICER's 2.1 section of the report giving legitimacy to allegations they don't have the authority to research, to Lykos not being able to defend some accusations due to confidentiality, to the damage caused over time (which likely influenced the decision) from attacks against Lykos from dissenters. He discusses: How, despite abuse claims, the main allegations in the report were actually about the mishandling of data or influence of investigators on participants The complications of needing to follow study frameworks: Should your adverse experience be in the report if it happened outside the study window? How easily opposition can attack and demonize a faceless company, while forgetting the humanity of the people behind it Inner healing intelligence and the proposition that people have been indoctrinated into this concept by MAPS The need for journalists to research more and not just jump on a narrative and more! For links, head to the show notes page.

In this episode, Kyle interviews Beth Weinstein: spiritual business coach, host of the "Medicine For These Times" podcast, and founder of the Psychedelics, Sacred Medicines, Soul's Purpose & Business summit. She talks about a pattern she noticed of people working with psychedelics and seeing progress on what they set out to heal, but with a short-lived afterglow, as they remained in unfulfilling jobs without making any changes. She wondered: What if they applied the lessons they learned during their experience to their careers? What small steps could they start taking to either improve their current job, or find their true soul's purpose and carve out a new path? Weinstein's path has led her to combine practical business action plans with more spiritual and traditionally psychedelic modalities to help people grow in their careers and become their most authentic selves – especially if they're trying to enter into the psychedelic space. She discusses: The importance of making time to talk things out with a coach, integration circle, or friends – especially in a culture that only gets more distracting and chaotic every day The challenge of differentiating between guidance: Is it your soul's true purpose, or a trick of your ego? The weirdly taboo topic of money in psychedelics, and the delicate balance of aligning with charitable values while making a living The mystical aspects to how life can change with new energy: Maybe that layoff happened at the perfect time? The power of positivity and small steps toward change, and how working on something outside of work can transform how you show up at work and more!  Weinstein's newest course begins early next year: The True Path Entrepreneur Group Business Coaching Mastermind Program, which is a 12-month live coaching course designed to reprogram limiting patterns and beliefs and help move people into alignment with their true path. Click here for more info and to apply. For links, head to the show notes page.

In this episode, David interviews Daniel Shankin: psychedelic integration coach, Vital instructor, and founder and director of Tam Integration. He talks about the underrated importance of integration circles, how he created Tam Integration out of a personal need for them, how simple it can be for people to create their own groups, and how open-ended newly formed groups can be. He also discusses his "fractal inquiry" coaching method, and how the best coaching involves simply asking questions that lead clients to their own realizations and wisdom. He is offering courses that teach both of these skills: a course called Creating Community Psychedelic Integration Circles, and the newly-launched, year-long Mt. Tam Psychedelic Integration Coaching Program, beginning in October. He discusses: The importance of learning how to focus on your breath, especially during a tough experience Hugging the Hindu spiritual leader, Amma (Sri Mata Amritanandamayi Devi), and the special energy that some people have The benefits of knowing when a mind path isn't worth exploring The difference between judgment and curiosity The weirdness of psychonauts, and how maybe getting a little weirder is what's needed for your healing and more!  For links, head to the show notes page.

In this episode, Joe interviews Joanna Kempner, Ph.D.: associate professor in the Department of Sociology at Rutgers University and author of the recently released, Psychedelic Outlaws: The Movement Revolutionizing Modern Medicine. The book profiles the history and groundbreaking work of ClusterBusters, a nonprofit researching and spreading awareness about what someone named Flash discovered decades ago: that for some people, psilocybin and LSD could stop cluster headaches from coming on. Through early internet message board posts and email exchanges between Bob Wold, Rick Doblin, and others, Kempner pieced together their story. And through attending ClusterBusters meetings, she discovered that a lot of the true healing lies in the bonds formed and the hope people find when seeing something new work for a pain for which science has no answer. She discusses: The lack of political will behind something so debilitating: Why is there no funding for this? The importance of patient advocacy and the role of the internet in sharing novel information The difficulty in studying a disease so unpredictable: How do you run a randomized trial when you don't know when a cluster is going to happen? Why the headache community clashes with psychology Concerns over how to ethically combine underground and Indigenous knowledge with above-ground University research and more!  For links, head to the show notes page.

In this episode, Kyle interviews Mustapha Khan: Emmy Award-winning director with over 100 film and television credits, who has worked with clients such as Coca-Cola and Honda, and celebrities ranging from Maya Angelou to Snoop Dogg. Khan is finalizing a film about Lenny and Elizabeth Gibson and their ongoing work at Dreamshadow – the people and community responsible for Joe and Kyle meeting and the creation of Psychedelics Today. He talks about meeting the Gibsons, being welcomed into their community (instead of his proposed "fly on the wall" role), how centered and happy he felt after his first breathwork session, and what he has learned through the process: that breathwork can be an incredibly healing modality, but the magic he has found has been more in the community surrounding it, and the responsibility (and honor) of being a sitter for someone else. He discusses: The first time his breathwork went psychedelic, and speaking with his recently deceased Mothe How he got into filmmaking and why he wants to tell stories about people like the Gibson The beauty of breathwork not having a dogma or doctrine attached to it The power in holding space for someone else, even if it's just being presen The importance of taking action that aligns with psychedelic ethos: What can you do to contribute to your community? and more!  Khan is hoping to release the documentary, "Life and Breath," in October. In addition to a screening at Dreamshadow, PT will likely do a virtual one as well, so stay tuned for updates! For links, head to the show notes page.

In this episode, Joe interviews Danielle Nova: founder of Psychedelic Recovery, founding team member of Decriminalize Nature Oakland, and Executive Director of the San Francisco Psychedelic Society. As a recovering addict, Nova discusses how working with psychedelics helped her find her way to recovery, and how she's spreading that knowledge to others through her Psychedelic Recovery program, which focuses more on 'targeted abstinence,' instead of the total abstinence model of Psychedelics In Recovery (which works alongside AA's 12-step program). She believes that it's extremely important to reframe addiction as a life process or temporary state of consciousness (rather than a life sentence you can't escape), and that beating addiction is not about constantly being afraid of a relapse, but about evolving to a state of empowerment: that you can overcome it, and that actually, a horrific addiction may have saved you and brought you to where you're supposed to be. She discusses:  The complications of Western medicine and the impact of conflicting medications that are nearly impossible to stop taking How self-regulation of tough emotions with outside stimuli (be it drugs, pornography, or even video games) trains people to rely on external forces rather than themselves How addicts end up programing themselves with 'addict consciousness,' and the power of changing one's mind state to view suffering as the fuel for a new purpose How, over time, we will likely start viewing microdosing as a regular dose, and the large doses we're used to will be seen as overdosing How being part of her ayahuasca experience (and having one himself) completely changed her father's perspective on drugs and addiction and more! She has co-created Microdosing Facilitator Training with Adam Bramlage of Flow State Micro: a first-of-its-kind 4-month program teaching clinicians, facilitators, and coaches about microdosing and how to safely guide others through the practice. The next cohort launches in January 2025. For links, head to the show notes page.

In this episode of Vital Psychedelic Conversations, David interviews Deanna Rogers: Registered Clinical Counselor and Vital instructor. She discusses how trauma grows in our bodies, and the importance of practitioners and facilitators becoming trauma-informed before working with clients. She stresses the need to create the right conditions for clients to be able to work with trauma – to bring compassion to the different parts of their self and build a relationship with the uncomfortable ones, to interrupt negative narratives, and to learn how to exist in a place where they can embrace their window of tolerance and explore discomfort in a safe way. What is the specific container and pace each client needs? How flexible is their nervous system to be able to work with these states? What can be done to bring out the empathetic witness in themselves? And most importantly, how can their sense of agency be improved so that they feel like they're fully in control of how deep things go? She discusses: Her early ayahuasca experiences, and her path toward working with others, including working with Gabor Maté and Peter Levine How psychedelics allow us to access our irrational, animal parts, and how this work is often a combination of sacred and messy The need for facilitators to have a basic understanding of the nervous system and fight or flight reactions Moving away from the idea of: "There's something wrong with me." What do these chronic narratives do to our bodies? Working with clients to build out the capacity of their nervous system first, before working with any trauma and more! Rogers is one of our Vital instructors, featured in one of Vital 4's new Specializations: Somatics & Trauma. This cohort begins on September 17, and the application deadline is next week, September 3, so apply today before it's too late! For links, head to the show notes page.

In this episode, Joe interviews Jean Lacy: Executive Director of the Illinois Psychedelic Society; and La Shawn K. Ford: 17-year member of the Illinois House of Representatives, representing the 8th District. Together, they are working on the CURE (Compassionate Use and Research of Entheogens) Act, which aims to decriminalize plant medicines and bring a state-regulated model for psychedelic use to Illinois. Similar to Oregon's model, but with hopefully a more cohesive ecosystem, it would include service centers, different license types, the removal of psilocybin and psilocin from the controlled substances list, and a percentage of taxes allocated to education of first responders and law enforcement. Guided by the mistakes of cannabis legalization, they're putting a lot of focus on accessibility – not just for consumers, but for people trying to get licenses and open businesses. What does equity and inclusion look like in a psychedelic service model? They discuss:  The need to educate lawmakers about psychedelics and shine a light on the myths and lies of the Drug War  The importance of understanding the process and doing the work when working with lawmakers: When it's done right, democracy can actually happen Why conversations about accessibility and certain provisions need to happen up front, as bills are being written The impact of bipartisan support, and how bipartisan psychedelics are starting to become The overwhelming support for the CURE Act that Rep. Ford has seen, from people of all walks of life and more! If you want to help, please sign their petition and/or make a donation. And if you want to help on a larger scale, get out there and have those conversations: Tell your story, and tell it to lawmakers. Your voice can make a bigger difference than you realize.  For links, head to the show notes page.

In this episode of Vital Psychedelic Conversations, David interviews Rachelle Sampson, Ph.D.: researcher and founder of Blue Prism Coaching; and Bennet Zelner, Ph.D.: researcher, speaker, and creator of the Pollination Approach. They are both Vital instructors and Associate Professors at the Robert H. Smith School of Business, University of Maryland. Based on a passion for regenerative economics (how we might be able to apply patterns of nature to socioeconomic systems), they are co-leading the Connected Leadership Study, a research project tracking how psychedelic experiences can facilitate change in people in leadership positions. They believe that a shift from a mechanistic attunement to a more synergistic recognition of our interconnectedness should lead to new ways of thinking, resulting in more creative leaders with better decision-making and team-building skills, and corporate culture caring more about values, regenerative models, equity, and sustainability – all while still being successful. They wonder: Can psychedelic experiences create better leaders? Can capitalism become more conscious? They discuss: The structure of the study, what they learned in the first cohort, and why they track participants for a yea How change happens over time, and why they believe it to needs to happen from the bottom u The concept of emergence and emergent change illustrated by the shifts in movement of a flock of bird How synergistic attunement can be traced back to the cellular level The challenge of balancing the therapeutic aspect of psychedelics with the more corporate strategy/professional side and more! The study's next cohort begins in October, so if you're a business leader interested in being a participant, head to Leaders.study for more info. And if you'd like to learn more about these concepts, the new Regenerative Business and Leadership specialization path in this year's cohort of Vital digs deep into this world. And we've just extended the applications to Sept. 2, so you still have time to apply! For links, head to the show notes page.

As the psychedelic renaissance continues to spread throughout the West, we learn more about these substances and experiences every day. But are we losing the important ancestral teachings and Indigenous knowledge that got us here? In this episode, Kyle interviews Alonso Del Río: author, musician, filmmaker, founder of the Center for Healing and Consciousness Studies (Ayahuasca Ayllu), and facilitator with 45 years of experience largely under the framework of the Shipibo tradition. Together with translator, Francisco Rivarola, they have developed a course called "Ancestral Teachings for the Psychedelic Renaissance," which aims to be both an honoring of knowledge that has safeguarded these traditions, and a bridge between that wisdom and our Western frameworks, teaching ancestral traditions (largely Shipibo and Incan-Peruvian), the roles and function of dietas, the less talked-about dangers of brujeria (witchcraft), holistic frameworks for dealing with mystical experiences, and the connection between spirituality and responsibility towards nature. The course features 20 hours of Del Río's teachings (with subtitles) and is the first time they've been made available to the general public. He talks about: The importance of following guidelines when working with ayahuasca, and how Westerners often don't respect the rigor required to do it right The different types of healers in the Shipibo tradition, from good and bad to the "Ascended Master," who transcends physical limits and is incapable of causing harm The potential for ayahuasca to be weaponized, how often this happens, and the risks for Westerners who aren't aware How the consciousness level of a person can be related to the emotions that that person allows themselves to have How the expansion of consciousness is healing in itself and more! Ancestral Teachings for the Psychedelic Renaissance is a self-paced course that can be taken at any time, so if you're interested, take advantage of early bird pricing and check it out in the Psychedelic Education Center now! For links, head to the show notes page.

In this episode of VItal Psychedelic Conversations, Vital instructor, Diego Pinzon hosts his first podcast, interviewing Vital graduate and clinically-trained psychologist, "The Kinki Buddhist": Kate Amy. As Amy's interest in psychedelics grew, she began to see a clear intersection between psychedelic states and the non-ordinary states she'd reached through years of meditation practice, as well as lessons from Buddhism that could help in better understanding psychedelic journeys. She talks about the importance of really understanding what it is one is seeking when looking to have a psychedelic experience, and the significance of integration – no matter how long it takes. While she has tips that have worked for clients, she feels that the psychedelic space has a long way to go in establishing best practices for the most effective integration. She discusses: Why she uses the name, "The Kinki Buddhist" How she frames the psychedelic experience as taking an evolutionary substance (and/or receiving a software upgrade) The necessity of having a positive relationship with the self before a big trip The continuous process of patients and facilitators both engaging in shadow work, and ways of discovering our different hidden parts The rigidity many of us prescribe to certain healing frameworks, and how beneficial it can be to view strict rules as guidelines for exploration instead and of course, her experience with Vital! The deadline for submitting your application is next week, August 23, so make sure to get your application in today. For links, head to the show notes page.

In this episode, Chris Koddermann interviews two members of the Center for the Neuroscience of Psychedelics at Mass General Hospital: founding director, author, and co-founder of three drug development companies, Dr. Jerry Rosenbaum; and psychiatrist and associate director and director of cognitive neuroscience, Sharmin Ghaznavi, MD, Ph.D. Rosenbaum and Ghaznavi bonded over an interest in rumination, and wondered: How could the plasticity-inducing effects of psychedelics change these negative loops people find themselves in? How important is the ability to break out of those loops – and learn new patterns – when our concept of self is so central to who we are? Ghaznavi is studying the effects of psilocybin on rumination and scanning patients at multiple times throughout the process to track data we still don't really have: how psychedelic-induced neuroplasticity changes over time, and why. They discuss: How much of a role the default mode network takes in the therapeutic benefits of psychedelics: Is it overblown? Hyperscanning, which involves scanning two individuals at the same time, looking for potential concordance in signal and/or an increased alliance between the therapist and patient The Schultes Legacy Project and the work of Stephen Haggarty to explore the potential of largely unstudied psychoactive plants Critiques of the recent ruling on Lykos and MDMA-assisted therapy and the clash between the FDA and the advisory committee: Were they really on the same page? The false dichotomy of neuroscience vs. patient experience: Does the subjective experience actually increase plasticity and other measurable benefits? and more! For links, head to the show notes page.

In this episode of Vital Psychedelic Conversations, David interviews Tiffany Hurd: microdosing coach, speaker, business leadership advisor, and student in our current cohort of Vital. After 15 years in the corporate healthcare industry and several years on antidepressants, she started microdosing psilocybin and saw an immediate change in her life, tapering off antidepressants within a few months. She realized that she could blend her background in business development and strategy with microdosing, helping companies (and specifically company leadership) become more vulnerable, heart-centered, and innovative. She has found that the changes in people have (not surprisingly) led to improved employee mental health, better team relationships, and more open-mindedness and authenticity, and likely, a large reason for that is not the microdosing itself, but the increased attention to preparation and integration – two huge factors often not discussed with microdosing. She talks about: Why mentorship/coaching has not been seen as an integral part of a microdosing practice, and why it should be Her drive to normalize the use of low-dose psychedelics, especially in our Western 'go all in' culture The benefits of pairing microdosing with other healing modalities, and how microdosing can help you embrace more of them Why she signed up for vital and how she feels about the course half way through How she deals with the illegality of substances in the corporate world and more! Microdosing is one of the new specialization tracks featured in our next cohort of Vital, beginning September 16. If you want to know more, send us an email or attend one of the next Vital Q+As! For links, head to the show notes page.

The path of the psychedelic renaissance has largely touched on the aspects of therapy, personal growth, and initiation rites, but now, the relationship between psychedelics and creativity is being studied more and more. Can psychedelics really increase intellect, novelty, and problem solving? In this episode, Joe interviews Dr. Bruce Damer: astrobiologist with a long history of work at NASA, and now the president and co-founder of the Center for MINDS, a new nonprofit researching the best ways to improve creativity and problem solving. He talks about how we're losing our best creative minds to hyper-specialization, and while there is lots of research pointing to psychedelics as creativity-enhancers, we need to develop frameworks and protocols to be able to measure exactly how that works, and the best ways to encourage better results. The Center for MINDS is sponsoring research while running its own three year project studying creativity in a naturalistic setting, and aims to answer: How do we unlock more genius? What's the main driver for novel thinking? He discusses: His path to psychedelics, including his time with 'endo-tripping': training his mind to trip without any external substances The importance of adding 'set up' to set and setting, representing one's intentions and preparatory work up until that point The tale of his extraordinary ayahuasca experience where he journeyed together with Mama Ayahuasca all the way to the beginning of life on earth His theory on the real origin of life, and why the 'survival of the fittest' framework shouldn't be our North Star The absolute necessity of mentorship from elders and more! The steps the Center for MINDS will take in studying psychedelics and creativity will largely be steered by people's personal stories, so please share yours with them by filling out their survey. What has worked for you? What is your personal protocol? For links, head to the show notes page.

Jungian psychology takes a fascinating look at the relationship between the conscious and unconscious parts of our minds. How is this framework brought more to the forefront through psychedelics and an understanding of our many parts? In this episode of Vital Psychedelic Conversations, Johanna interviews Jung experts and Vital instructors: Maria Papaspyrou, psychotherapist and co-founder and director of the Institute of Psychedelic Therapy (IPT); and Dr. Ido Cohen, clinical psychologist and founder of The Integration Circle. They talk about the experiences that helped them first understand the concept of multiple different parts making up their being, and dive into what it is about psychedelics that allows us to discover and work with these different parts: how the protector parts of our psyche work overtime to keep parts away from us, and how psychedelics can dissolve them, leading to a better understanding of ourselves. How much of our persona is based on who we feel we're supposed to be? What shadow parts are stopping us from being our true selves? And what amazing parts of ourselves have yet to be discovered? They discuss: The idea of self as a unified entity: Does this concept make sense anymore? Risks in understanding how different parts work together, from justifying behaviors to inflating defensive structures The need to move away from solution-based to more process-focused frameworks, and the power in treating healing and growth as an ongoing process The rejection of the shadow and the archetypal (and impossible) wish to extinguish all suffering The large discrepancy between what people think being a psychedelic facilitator is vs. the reality and more! If you really want to dig into Jungian ideas, Jungian psychology is one of the new specialization tracks featured in the next cohort of Vital, beginning September 16. If you want to know more, send us an email or attend one of the next Vital Q+As. For links, head to the show notes page.

As many mushroom enthusiasts will attest: the more you learn about the fungal kingdom, the more you see how important mushrooms are to every ecosystem they're a part of – and how life-changing a relationship with them can be. In this episode, Joe interviews Jasper Degenaars: mycologist, educator, and the Hyphae Headmaster at Fungi Academy, offering retreats, communal living, and online courses to teach people how to grow mushrooms and form a deeper connection with them. Degenaars tells of his path to Guatemala and the Fungi Academy, from foraging to cultivation, to the impact psychedelic experiences have had on his life. He believes that mushrooms show up where people like to live; that they are integral to ecosystems, and that they are the masters of death and life – and of ego death and rebirth. The Fungi Academy has several several in-person events for which they just opened up registration, self-paced courses you can enroll in now, and their next Sacred Mycology Summit takes place Feb. 23 – 25, 2025. He discusses: The importance in studying the entire organism rather than just specific compounds The stoned ape theory and possible new evidence Why he prefers the term 'magic mushrooms' to the reductionist way of only talking about psilocybin The clash between clinical Western approaches and Indigenous tradition The Iron law of prohibition and how MDMA has gotten stronger and stronger His desire to move more into permaculture, including courses teaching it alongside the fundamentals of psychedelics: How can they work in tandem? and more! For links, head to the show notes page.

Psychedelics in palliative care has become an exciting new framework for people looking to ease anxiety and embrace spirituality, but the concept is not as simple as just providing a substance. In this episode, Joe interviews Livi Joy: Director of Health and Safety, Existential Palliative Ministry Lead Facilitator, and more at Sacred Garden Community (SGC). As she screens applicants for SGC (and Beckley Retreats), she talks a lot about the process and the safety measures that are absolutely necessary when using psychedelics in palliative care – especially under the framework of the Religious Freedom Restoration Act. Does the patient have at least one strong support person? Do they need to start or increase therapy? Does their home need to be rearranged due to possible fall risks? How will certain medications muffle their experience? Are they truly physically healthy enough to be able to handle a powerful journey? And also, is the sacrament always necessary? She discusses: How preparation questions for a journey are often in line with preparation for death Why it's important to provide these experiences for people far from the dying process itself What Sacred Garden's core tenant of faith that everyone can have a direct experience of the divine in this lifetime means to her Atheism and the complications that arise when discussing spirituality and consciousness: Who's really in charge? How psychedelics can help with understanding and preparing for death, but our culture is too death-phobic too embrace it and more! For links, head to the show notes page:

In this episode, Joe interviews Erica Rex, MA: award-winning journalist, past guest, thought leader on psychedelic medicine, and participant in one of the first clinical trials using psilocybin to treat cancer-related depression. She tells the story of her recent harrowing experience, brought on by 6 times the amount of Syrian rue that was recommended: from entities threatening her, to a sense of terror she was going to die, to finding her way out of it with time, and most importantly, context to process and a strong support system. She and Joe emphasize the reality that bad trips can happen at any time, with any dose, for any reason, and that – if you can make your way through the experience without being traumatized – you can learn a lot about yourself during those states. She discusses: Methods to help others having a bad experience Her skepticism about psychedelic therapy being in a medical context at all Her thoughts on the recent ICER recommendation against approving MDMA and the multiple topics not addressed Possible complications from MDMA use nobody talks about, from cytotoxic effects to even sudden-onset psychosis The pathologizing of anything outside the ordinary, to the point that we're trying to suppress natural human emotions and reactions and more!  Rex's book, "The Heroine's Journey: A Woman's Quest for Sanity in the Psychedelic Age" will be published by She Writes Press in the spring of 2026. For links, head to the show notes page.

In this episode of Vital Psychedelic Conversations, Johanna interviews Monica Nieto: Vital graduate, psychedelic facilitator and integration coach, and founder of Holistic TherapeutiX, a retreat center offering cannabis and breathwork retreats; and Jordana Ma: past Vital instructor and psychological counselor who runs retreats in Peru following the Asháninkan tradition of traditional Amazonian medicine. They discuss their similar paths to psychedelics and healing, the power of plant dietas and fully immersing yourself into nature, and learning to hear your true teacher: the inner healer. They highlight how we've lost the connection to the ecological consciousness within our bodies, and how the plants – perhaps in a self-serving way – have become allies, trying to teach us to heal the web we're a part of and reconnect to nature and ourselves. They discuss: The importance of combining traditional perspectives and Western psychotherapy into a spiritual practice The similarities between yoga and traditional Amazonian medicine Singing as a somatic (and breathwork) practice How things are meant to work in synergy, and the problem with science trying to extract compounds rather than respecting the power of the whole plant Their role models who have inspired them and informed their work and more! The Vital Early Bird discount ($2000 off!) ends on July 22, so make sure to apply today! For links, head to the show notes page.

In this episode, Joe interviews Jon Reiss: critically acclaimed filmmaker, author, and host of the Plantscendence podcast, which tells people's psychedelic stories and is beginning its second season soon. He talks about his early days of directing Nine Inch Nails and Type O Negative videos, and how Plantscendence was born after he realized that the conversations he was having with people about their most transformative experiences were perfect for a podcast. He discusses his first psychedelic experience with ayahuasca, how microdosing is helping him today, and his realization that people can get to these big experiences in many different ways. He discusses: The two episodes of Plantscendence that stand out the most to him Using the term, 'plant medicine' His 30 years of meditation practice and how it likely helped him to integrate his first psychedelic experiences The concept of plant intelligence and how plants can stop you from being a "consciousness tourist" Kabbalah, Kashmir Shaivism, non-duality, and his Shaktipat experience and more! For links, head to the show notes page.

In this episode of Vital Psychedelic Conversations, David interviews Sara Reed: Vital instructor, lecturer, and lead psychedelic research therapist at Imperial College London; and Alex H. Robinson: Vital student, integration coach and psilocybin facilitator for Heroic Hearts Project, and distinguished Army SOF combat Veteran with a decade of active duty service. Reed has worked with MAPS to make clinical trial populations more diverse and is creating culturally sensitive Clinical Research Forms for future research trials, and Robinson spearheaded her unit's Cultural Support Team program and contributed to policy changes to help place women into traditionally male-centric Special Operations roles. Representing marginalized groups themselves, they're both passionate about making psychedelic therapy more inclusive and representative of the general population, and getting more practitioners up to speed to be able to deliver culturally competent care. They discuss: The importance of having difficult conversations and calling out bad behavior The fallacy of zero-sum thinking: Doing something special for a smaller community doesn't take away from the main goal; it adds to it The benefit of being able to self-reflect and personalize content when most psychedelic education consists of one-sided lectures The challenge of getting people who don't feel represented to enroll in clinical trials, and how personal stories go a long way and more! For links, head to the show notes page.  Vitalpsychedelictraining.com

In this episode, Joe and REMAP Therapeutics Founder, Court Wing, host Lynn Watkins: medically retired USAF JAG & Ops Resource Mgmt Specialist; and C.J. Spotswood, PMHNP: principle psychiatric clinician at REMAP Therapeutics, and author of The Microdosing Guidebook: A Step-by-Step Manual to Improve Your Physical and Mental Health through Psychedelic Medicine. Watkins tells her story of 20+ years of chronic pain: from Complex Regional Pain Syndrome brought on by a severed nerve to multiple foot surgeries, chest pains, cognitive issues, the inability to move her toes, burning mouth syndrome, and more, which unsurprisingly resulted in depression, anxiety, and being unable to work. Wing and Spotswood talk about their initial assessment, how they figured out how to work with her and her multitude of medications, and the incredible success they saw when combining practiced techniques, neuromodulation, and regular assessments with neuroplastic windows brought on by psilocybin. They discuss: How much preparation was done before introducing psychedelics, and the importance of realizing that they were dealing with PTSD How often a history of chronic pain is related to a history of trauma, whether the patient realizes it or not Consequences and complications of medications, specifically Clonazepam in Watkins' case The cascade of ailments and side effects that can happen from just one injury and more! For links, head to the show notes page.

In this episode of Vital Psychedelic Conversations, David interviews Casey Paleos, MD: Vital instructor, researcher, psychiatrist with a private practice offering ketamine infusion therapy and KAP, and co-founder of Nautilus Sanctuary, a non-profit psychedelic research, education, and advocacy organization.  Paleos talks about how stress creates trauma, and how the symptoms Western medicine tries to silence are actually signals – a quality assurance mechanism sending an alert that something is wrong, and that when symptoms are labeled as 'treatment-resistant,' is it actually a case of one's own inner healing intelligence outsmarting a medication to make sure that that message is delivered?   He discusses: MAPS' recent advisory board ruling, past ethical violations, and how training should be done How consent in a therapeutic relationship is an ongoing process of checking in How psychedelic-assisted therapy (and maybe all therapy) is simply removing obstacles so one's own inner healing intelligence can do its job The importance of a culture (and training) that celebrates all therapeutic modalities as complementary: There's a lot of uniqueness in this world, so we should embrace that   and more! For links, head to the show notes page.

In this episode, Kyle interviews Peter A. Levine, Ph.D.: developer of Somatic Experiencing®, educator, and author of several best-selling books on trauma. His most recent book, An Autobiography of Trauma: A Healing Journey, is exactly that: a change from more scholarly writing into an extremely vulnerable telling of his early childhood trauma and how he has healed over the years. He talks about how his unconscious convinced him to write the book, how trauma can move into the body, and how he needed a student to identify how his trauma was affecting him. He believes that we all have wounding, but it's how we carry these wounds and tell our truth that matters.  He discusses:  The need to allow space for both Indigenous traditions and evidence-based Western frameworks The power of having even just one distinct moment of feeling cared for and loved How Colin Turnbull saw healing differently after living with an African tribe for three years Why he suggests 15-20 sober experiences with non-ordinary states for each drug experience Why not having a community or empathetic other makes us more vulnerable to trauma and more! For links, head to the show notes page.

In this episode of Vital Psychedelic Conversations, Johanna interviews Erika Dyck: author, professor, historian, Vital instructor, and research chair in the History of Health & Social Justice at the University of Saskatchewan. Dyck talks about the book she co-edited: Women and Psychedelics: Uncovering Invisible Voices, which was released in March as a Chacruna anthology, and collects pieces from several different authors highlighting the untold or lesser known stories from women throughout psychedelic history. Albert Hofmann was the first person to intentionally ingest LSD, but who was the first woman to do so? Who were the women assisting in research or sitting with experiencers in the early days who never got the credit for their contributions? Who were the women supporting some of the biggest psychedelic names in history? She talks about: The contrast in societal attitudes towards psychedelic exploration based on stereotypical gender roles Some of her favorite stories from the book, including a woman diagnosed with manic depression becoming one of the first guides in LSD trials The use of psychedelics in pregnancy and birthing practices across other cultures Traditional gender attributes: Are women more wired to care for others? Is there something about the psychedelic experience that's inherently feminine? The importance of moving past the gender binary and implementing more diversity in research – with the challenge of needing to universalize medicine at the same time and more! For links, head to the show notes page.

In this episode, Joe interviews Lia Mix, LMFT, CPTR: founder and CEO of Delphi, a consulting firm dedicated to the healthy growth of the psychedelic movement. After many years of working in community mental health and 15 years in the commercial health insurance industry (where she helped to establish coverage for autism), Mix was one of the first graduates of CIIS's training program, and after a very distinct MDMA-assisted therapy session, she wondered: "How can I be of service?" She's since helped to launch The Board of Psychedelic Medicines and Therapies, the American Psychedelic Practitioners Association, and Enthea, and is working every day toward a more unified and uniform psychedelic space, with healthcare frameworks, official boards and certifications, consumer protections, and a general consensus that this is our responsibility to manage – not some outside regulator's. So how can we, as a scattered psychedelic community, come together? She discusses: Her path to psychedelics and how nobody was talking about how to bring psychedelics into healthcare The need for a unified code of ethics for any practitioner of psychedelic therapy The FDA, Lykos Therapeutics, and how the recent advisory committee's recommendations on MDMA-assisted psychotherapy were largely based on fear How there actually is a lot of financial possibility if we can all agree on what is absolutely essential right now and more! For links, head to the show notes page.

In this episode of Vital Psychedelic Conversations, David interviews Kaitlin Roberson: Vital graduate and co-founder and CEO of Cacti Therapeutics, a psychedelic biotech company developing novel therapies for chronic pain; and Dr. Michele Cox, DO: current Vital student, veteran, physician, and co-founder of LifeBloom, a brand new company focusing on bringing community and connection into women's healthcare. They talk about their work: Roberson's research on trauma and chronic pain, and why she feels that working in the pharma industry is a calling; and Cox's framework as an osteopath, the value she's found in touch and connection, and how she explains to clients what to expect when undergoing ketamine treatment. They discuss: Why psychedelics are such useful interventions The body's ability to tell us what's wrong, as long we're listening The destabilization that can occur after a big experience: If you don't have a good support system, is it really the right time? Self-care and our tendency to never feel like we're good enough How there is energy in everything and we should all recognize that more And, as Vital students, they talk about what they hoped to get out of Vital and how it delivered more than expected. If you're just discovering Vital, be sure to check out the website and fill out an application. Secure your spot and take advantage of the Early Bird discount! For links, head to teh show notes page.

In this episode, Joe interviews Dr. Amanda Holley: pharmacologist and regulatory consultant in nonclinical drug development, and previously a nonclinical pharmacology/toxicology reviewer at the FDA. With Lykos Therapeutics working towards FDA approval of MDMA-assisted psychotherapy for PTSD, ICER (Institute for Clinical and Economic Review) recently published its draft evidence report, concluding that they couldn't endorse this modality. While disappointing to the psychedelic space, this report doesn't determine the FDA's official stance, and also really highlights a lot about how the FDA works, the knowledge gap between consumers and regulators, and how clinical studies should be designed in the future. Holley talks about the FDA's dedication to safety and data, and how, essentially, drug development comes down to a risk/benefit analysis.  She discusses:  Misconceptions about the FDA, especially related to psychedelics The path of a substance in early drug development and how breakthrough status works The complications with blinding psychedelics, the placebo effect, and how much therapy is a factor The contrast between productization and harm reduction: Should we be concerned with creating products, or understanding these substances better? How changing one molecule really does create a different drug and much more! For links, head to the show notes page.

In this episode of Vital Psychedelic Conversations, Kyle interviews two Vital graduates: Alice Dommert: certified breathwork facilitator and co-founder of retreat company, The Infinite Center; and Kara Tremain, ACC: somatic practitioner and growth and development coach. A huge part of Vital is the experiential aspect of attending a retreat. Students report that being part of a group process, feeling the power of the proper set and setting, taking a journey as both a sitter and experiencer, and separating from the world and connecting with each other has been one of the best parts of the program – even life-changing. With Dommert behind 13 Vital retreats to date, she and Kyle dive into what they've learned in how to run a successful retreat. They discuss: Facilitator humility and how important it is for everyone to be on the same page How much additional activities can add to the experience (tea ceremonies, CrossFit, chanting, fireside chats) The importance of allowing enough time and space for everything, from personal time with facilitators to possible issues Co-creation and openness: What can facilitators and people coming to the retreat build together? How do we create the most meaningful time together? If you're interested in Vital, applications are now open with an Early Bird discount! And if you want to attend a Vital retreat, we have a few spots left in two: a transpersonal breathwork retreat in Pennsylvania, July 9-14, and a cannabis + breathwork retreat in Agoura Hills, CA in October. Head to the Infinite Center's website for details. For links, head to the show notes page.

In this episode, Joe interviews Charles Stang: Professor of Early Christian Thought and the Director of the Center for the Study of World Religions at Harvard Divinity School. The Center was created to gain a better understanding of world religions by bringing scholars from their respective countries to study and live alongside Divinity School students. As students and Stang started to become interested in psychedelics, a zoom series, "Psychedelics and the Future of Religion," began, and the school just hosted their second conference, "Psychedelic Intersections: Cross Cultural Manifestations of the Sacred." Next year's Psychedelics and Spirituality conference will take place February 15, 2025.  He discusses:  Harvard's psychedelic history, and why it's important to not erase the past out of the interest of presumed legitimacy How people are consistently having extraordinary experiences with psychedelics, but not always with religion: Are people becoming less (or more) religious? The Immortality Key, the Eleusinian mysteries, and psychedelic enthusiasts' need to connect Christianity with psychedelics Psychedelics and other mystery religions, like Hermeticism and Mithraism Why religion is important to so many people, and how it helps us understand the "more-than-human"  and much more. For links, head to the show notes page.

In this episode – the first in the 2024 series of Vital Psychedelic Conversations – David interviews Pierre Bouchard, LPC: Vital instructor and lead trainer for the Congregation for Sacred Practices; and Kara Tremain, ACC: recent Vital graduate-turned-instructor, somatic practitioner, and growth and development coach.  In this series, we pair up a Vital instructor with a current or previous student as a way of showcasing different (and aligned) perspectives on what they feel is most vital for the psychedelic space to be discussing, while also highlighting their experiences with Vital, our 12-month training program. The next cohort begins September 17 and we're accepting applications now.   As they are both are passionate about somatic work, they discuss:  The power of somatics in showing people how much our bodies and nervous systems matter, and how our thoughts are often not the main driver How ketamine or MDMA can help with somatic work How somatic sound can be, through music for journeys, sound bowls, or tuning forks: Can just the right frequency create magic? How somatic work is not solely about resolving trauma, but also about learning to conduct energy and use one's body as a tuning apparatus and more! For links, head to the show notes page.

In this episode, Kyle interviews Alex Belser, Ph.D. and Bill Brennan, Ph.D.: psychologists, psychedelic researchers, authors, and co-creators of the EMBARK model, a framework for psychedelic therapy.  When Belser and Brennan worked together at Cybin, they canvassed the field of psychedelic research and saw very little reporting (if any) of the manuals researchers were using, so they created the EMBARK model as a "big tent" framework – a way to understand what patients were going through from the perspective of six different clinical domains, where the clinician can go deeper into whichever domain is needed based on their specific skill sets. The EMBARK model has been used in two randomized controlled trials to date, and its corresponding book, EMBARK Psychedelic Therapy for Depression: A New Approach for the Whole Person (co-authored by Belser and Brennan), was released in April.  They discuss:  The six domains and four ethical care cornerstones that make up EMBARK, as well as the many proposed change mechanisms that come into play Concerns over facilitators stepping aside and letting the medicine do the work: How much of a factor is someone's presence in the room? How much smaller, "little t" traumas can affect people – trauma doesn't always come from a single hallmark event The need for facilitators to be trained well (and trauma-informed), as it's nearly impossible to tell when an adverse outcome is coming and more! For links, head to the show notes page.

In this episode, special guest host Court Wing interviews Monica Verduzco-Gutierrez, MD: professor and chair of rehabilitation medicine at UT Health San Antonio; Joel Castellanos, MD: co-founder and associate medical director of the Center for Psychedelic Research at UC San Diego; and MaryAnn Welke Lesage: a long COVID survivor who reports experiencing drastic improvement in symptoms after MDMA and psilocybin therapy. As the world slowly recovers from COVID, many people are seeing continued or new symptoms, and while much is still not understood, these symptoms are being categorized as long COVID: essentially a persistent viral inflammation causing brain fog, headaches, depression, and other hard-to-diagnose symptoms. With estimations of as many as 18% of people in the U.S. experiencing this at one point and 6.8% currently dealing with it, could psychedelics – which can decrease inflammation and reset neural networks – help alleviate these symptoms?  They discuss:  How long COVID fits into what we already know about psychedelics, pain, and inflammatory medicine Why MDMA or psilocybin therapy, specifically, can help The importance of physical medicine and rehabilitation (PM&R) and the myriad of tools these physicians have learned to work with Why anecdotal evidence matters towards future research and more!  For more info, read Lesage's article, "How Psychedelics Became Key to My Long COVID Recovery," as well as the official paper: "Long-COVID symptoms improved after MDMA and psilocybin therapy: A case report." For more links, head to the show notes page.

In this episode, Joe interviews Sean Lawlor: writer and therapist specializing in ketamine-assisted therapy at Reflective Healing in Fort Collins, CO. His first book, Psychedelic Revival: Toward a New Paradigm of Healing, will be released on June 4. Written as somewhat of a primer for psychedelics and psychedelic therapy, he talks about how he decided to write the book, how Michael Pollan was an influence, and the importance of making psychedelic literature not boring: Research and statistics are important, but how does one relate to data points when trying to understand something so rich and weird? He discusses: Studying philosophy, from Nietzsche and Freud to Jung and William James When a clinical frame or license is important (but can you always trust a license?) How context and interwoven culture matter when differentiating between plant medicines and man-made psychedelics Brian Muraresku's The Immortality Key and research into ancient Greeks using psychedelics: Why do we place so much importance on proving this? The importance of community, rituals, shared meanings, mythology, and rites of passage and more! For links, head to the show notes page.

In this episode, Joe interviews Elliot Marseille, DrPH, MPP: founding director of UC Berkeley's Collaborative for the Economics of Psychedelics (CEP), a network of health economists and researchers analyzing the economics behind emerging psychedelic-assisted therapies. In the early days of drug research, efficacy was the leading factor in decision making, but as time has gone on, people are looking much more into the economics of everything: If a government is granted X amount of money, what should they spend it on that will be the most beneficial to the most people? How do you create models for future research and regulations based on the data we have now? Can there be a time in the near future when someone sits before Congress and says, "This is the exact societal cost of not making psychedelic therapy accessible"? He discusses: His early work with the SEVA Foundation, studying at the economics behind HIV/AIDS treatments in developing countries His experiences working with Ram Dass and having a big psychedelic journey with Leo Zeff His issues with the recent ICER (Institute for Clinical and Economic Review) report which said they couldn't endorse MDMA-assisted psychotherapy Why we need more studies tracking people for long periods after psychedelic therapy, specifically analyzing their healthcare utilization over time and more! For links, head to the show notes page.

In this episode, Joe interviews two members of The Daschle Group: Founder and CEO, Senator Tom Daschle; and Public Policy Advisor, Charlie Panfil. As Senator Daschle served in the House of Representatives for eight years (starting in 1978) and the Senate for 21, he was deep in the War on Drugs at its peak, and thankfully, as seen with so many of his constituents in recent years, the data and personal stories of so many healed people has broken through the propaganda and made him a strong advocate for psychedelic-assisted therapy. While minds are changing and progress is happening before our eyes (the majority of substances the FDA is currently researching for psychiatric indications contain some form of psychedelic ingredient), government bureaucracy, a severe lack of communication between the FDA and DEA, and decades of lies are still massive roadblocks. How do we address all of this while advancing research? They discuss: The need to develop a partnership between the public and private sectors, mostly for the cost of treatments The DEA's place in all of this: If they're essentially a law enforcement agency, why are they involved in the safety and efficacy of medical treatments? The STATES Act, the Breakthrough Therapies Act, and how they can affect research Why we need to move past relying on opioids, and instead, embrace a science-based drug policy and more! For links, head to the show notes page.

In this episode, Kyle interviews Simon Yugler: psychedelic-assisted therapist, educator, and author of the book, Psychedelics & the Soul: A Mythic Guide to Psychedelic Healing, Depth Psychology, and Cultural Repair, which comes out this fall. He digs into depth psychology and why it's a beneficial framework for navigating non-ordinary experiences – a practice he believes will be the next focus in psychedelic education and understanding, alongside more analysis into the archetypes and myths that reside within (and all around) us. In an age of hyper-individualism and isolation, the stories and archetypal energies we share (which can be brought more to the forefront with psychedelics) can be incredibly healing and connecting. He discusses: The challenges of reintegrating to reality after the classic Hero's Journey, and how some people don't want to The time he ate 7 grams of strong mushrooms and nothing happened, confirming to him the omnipresence of trickster energies Jung's theory on individuation, and how true individuation actually creates deeper engagement with the world How myths offer windows into deeper realms, and a breakdown of his Mythopoetic Integration Method How psychedelics show us our souls, and how so much of the chaos in the world can be related to a denial of the soul and more! For links, head to the show notes page.

In this episode, David interviews Sami Awad: Palestinian peace and nonviolent activist and founder of Holy Land Trust in Bethlehem; and Leor Roseman, Ph.D.: Israeli neuroscientist, researcher, and senior lecturer at the University of Exeter.   They talk about Roseman's 2021 paper, "Relational Processes in Ayahuasca Groups of Palestinians and Israelis," which looked at what happened when people with fiercely different opinions moved beyond fear, anger, and othering, and sat together in a safe container and drank ayahuasca with the purpose of healing collective trauma. When the focus of the participants moved toward understanding each other, Roseman and Awad saw a unity that gave them a lot of hope, leading to the creation of their nonprofit, RIPPLES, which is focused on using psychedelics for peacebuilding – first in the Middle East, and hopefully soon, everywhere. As Awad says, "If it can happen here, it can happen almost anywhere." They discuss:  The efficacy of psychedelics as a tool for nonviolent activism, building peace, and recognizing – and healing – collective trauma The balance between the idealistic and the practical, or 'the irony of harmony' – if you focus too much on the connectivity of psychedelics, do you actually exclude voices? The concept of "my liberation depends on your healing and your liberation depends on mine" The challenge in doing something with the hope and enthusiasm that comes after a powerful experience: How do you make sure that wave of hope continues rippling through choppy waters?  Click here to head to the show notes page.

In this episode, Joe interviews two members of the Heroic Hearts Project team: Director of Donor Development and founder of The Hope Project, Allison Wilson; and Director of Research and founder of Hystelica, Dr. Grace Blest-Hopley. They discuss how The Hope Project – a nonprofit that supports spouses of veterans, Gold Star Wives, and female veterans with scholarships to psychedelic healing retreats, integration, community, etc. – merged with Heroic Hearts Project, and why this is such a necessary part of the veteran healing story: How does a family hold space for a vet returning to a suddenly alien civilian life (especially after a psychedelic journey)? How does a spouse deal with their own trauma from constant worry and isolation? Wilson and Blest-Hopley are learning that, for many spouses, having their own experience (and with other spouses) has been incredibly beneficial. They talk about: The concept of secondary PTSD (often referred to as 'compassion fatigue') and the many ways it can manifest How Heroic Hearts is working with Imperial College London to use veteran retreats as real-world observational research The importance of involving family in the healing process, and how positive outcomes can trickle down to children The need for more research into how PTSD and the effects of psychedelics are different in women based on their unique physiology (as most studies have focused on men) and more! For links, head to the show notes page.

In this episode, Joe and Kyle interview William Richards, STM, Ph.D.: senior advisor at Sunstone Therapies, psychologist at the Center for Psychedelic and Consciousness Research at the Johns Hopkins School of Medicine, contributor to Vital, and author of Sacred Knowledge: Psychedelics & Religious Experiences. He talks about the first time he experienced psilocybin in a research study in 1963, his early studies on the psychology of religion, working with Abraham Maslow, how he became one of the early psychedelic therapists, and what it was like for all of that to disappear when Nixon came into office and shut everything down. He discusses his move into psychedelics and end-of-life care after seeing patients' fear of death completely disappear, and contemplates whether psychedelics could help people prepare for death – how would we live if we no longer feared death? He also discusses: How the integration of psychedelics into palliative care should be a huge step in cultural acceptance How psychedelics could be used for education and boosting creativity, problem solving, and even new perspectives on history and classic works The study of comparative religion and the potential for psychedelics to find the connections and commonality between seemingly disparate religions The impact of psychedelic experiences on the perception of the sacred How fascinating it is that the same substance, dose, and set and setting can create such incredibly different experiences and more! For links, head to the show notes page.

In this episode, Joe interviews a psytrance musician who has created what may be the world's first modular album for psychedelic exploration under his project, Held By Sound.  He talks about his background in the rave and festival scene, the moment he realized he wanted to make music, and the realization that he could create soundscapes specifically for journeys into non-ordinary states. And he digs into the 'choose your own adventure' framework of the free album: how he actually recorded 3 different albums and figured out how to transition into different moods based on which direction the listener wants to go – from more still to more expansive, to darker or more bittersweet. He has also created music for DMT trials in the UK, and talks a lot about the potential in extended-state DMT experiences. He also discusses:  How he came up with the flow of the album related to phases of the trip How much of a catalyst and safe container music can be, with or without a complimentary substance How psychedelics in a fun, festival experience with lots of laughter can be extremely beneficial – you don't need to do them the 'correct' way Graham Hancock, Donald Hoffman, and the concept of consciousness as the building block of all reality Psytrance, classical music, traditional Bwiti music, Lady Gaga, and what music he feels is best for exploration  and more! For links, head to the show notes page.

In this episode, Joe and special guest, Court Wing, interview Tommy Aceto: former Navy Seal and trauma medic, NCAA athlete, Michigan State Champion Wrestler, and now, psychedelic advocate and ambassador for the Veteran Mental Health Leadership Coalition. He discusses his journey from childhood to wanting to become a SEAL, and the toll that military life and its programming can take on a person: how a life built on high levels of endurance, deprivation, and constantly surviving in a fight-or-flight mindset often manifests in Operator Syndrome, chronic pain, depression, and addiction. Veterans are seeing the potential of psychedelics to rewire their brains and allow them to process pain differently, by allowing them to feel emotions they were trained to turn off: "You've got to feel to heal." Aceto discusses: The affirmation and approval many who join the military seek, and how that often translates into needing to stay at certain levels of risk to truly feel alive The similarities between soldiers and professional athletes and high performers Dealing with chronic pain, and how forcing movement is often the best tactic The Controlled Substances Act and how opioids became a business Why the most important thing vets can do today is to tell their healing stories and more! For links, head to the show notes page.

In this episode, Kyle and Johanna catch up, interviewing each other about psychedelic education and what they've learned, the biggest challenges, and what advice they would give to anyone looking to get involved in the psychedelic field. They discuss: How sometimes it's not about the substance: If you want to be a psychedelic therapist, do you see yourself doing therapy without the psychedelics? How no part of education is exempt, and becoming truly psychedelically-competent can involve studying psychology, neuroscience, somatics, religion, history, etc. How people's experiences are evidence – it doesn't have to come from a research study to be valid The importance of figuring out what your gifts are and how you could best contribute to progress, and then finding the job that matches it and more! The next round of our year-long training program, Vital, begins in September, but for those who feel that that may be too much of a commitment, our most popular course – the 9-week Navigating Psychedelics for Clinicians and Wellness Practitioners, LIVE – begins on May 8. Head to the Psychedelic Education Center for more details! Click here to head to the show notes page.

In this episode, Joe interviews Philip Wolf: writer, member of Rolling Stone's Culture Council, founder of Cultivating Spirits (the first company in the U.S. to offer legal culinary cannabis experiences), and founder of CashoM, an education company offering a certificate in cannabis stewardship. He discusses his recent Rolling Stone article about the need to divorce ourselves from the colonial mindset that pervades the psychedelic movement, and he talks about the difficult conversation that came about when he asked a very critical group of psychedelic leaders how they felt about the article, and how it taught him just how powerful having these difficult conversations can be.  He also discusses:  The importance of asking questions and not making assumptions Why we may need to abandon the "no justice, no peace" attitude if we ever want to move forward The idea that instead of endlessly battling the establishment, maybe it makes more sense to change our consumer mindset and allow capitalism to do its thing The importance of reaching out to local Indigenous tribes and allocating resources to go to them, not make them come to you The challenge of merging spirituality and science, especially for a regulatory model focused on profit and more! For links, head to the show notes page.

In this episode, Joe and Kyle interview Lenny Gibson, Ph.D.: philosopher, Grof-certified Holotropic Breathwork® facilitator, 20-year professor of transpersonal psychology at Burlington College, and the reason Joe and Kyle met many years ago. He talks about his early LSD experiences and how his interest in the philosophy of Plato and Alfred North Whitehead provided a framework and language for understanding a new mystical world where time and space were abstractions. He believes that while culture sees the benefits of psychedelics in economic terms, the biggest takeaway from non-ordinary states is learning that value is the essence of everything. And as this is being released on Bicycle Day, he discusses Albert Hofmann's discovery and whether or not it's fair to say that Hofmann intentionally had the experience he did on that fateful day. He also discusses: The end of Cartesian thinking and the need for a new understanding of reality that incorporates the insights of quantum mechanics How philosophy has been taught as an intellectual endeavor, and how we need to embrace the practical and conceptual side of life John Dewey and quantitative thinking, William James and pragmatism, and was Aristotle a Platonist? The novelty of the creation of LSD, and how it gave us a path to a mystical experience that wasn't culturally bound and more! For links, head to the show notes page.

In this episode, Joe interviews Joey Lichter, Ph.D.: professor in the Chemistry & Biochemistry department at Miami's Florida International University, and one of the few professors in the U.S. teaching a course about psychedelics at the collegiate level. He talks about his path towards the course, the challenge of creating a curriculum that covers everything in a few months, and the importance of teaching young minds about psychedelics the right away; shifting drug education from the "Just say no!" D.A.R.E. model to a more balanced, honest, and evidence-based approach. He aims for his students to think critically, ignore the hype, and see all possible angles with a fairly simple approach: Present the full story. He discusses: The importance of teaching history, from Stan Grof to MKUltra The work of David Nichols, David Nutt's drug harm scale, and the greatest lesson William Leonard Pickard took from LSD The representation of Spravato as a new drug, and his concerns with the over-medicalization of psychedelics Teaching about the complexities of Timothy Leary: Was he a positive or negative force? Decriminalization, legalization, and how he gets students to think about drug policy and more! For links and more, head to the show notes page.

In this episode, Joe interviews Devon Phillips: community & partnerships officer for the Multidisciplinary Association for Psychedelic Studies (MAPS). Phillips works on strategies to tackle the questions: How do we responsibly mainstream psychedelics? And how do we get culture engaged? He's focusing on being the bridge to psychedelics outside of research, facilitating workshops and psychedelic coming-out stories at music festivals and conferences. He talks about harm reduction and drug checking at festivals, the concept of training big names to become trustworthy resources, the differences found in a hop hop crowd compared to EDM, and the power in using psychedelics for pleasure and celebration – not just healing and growth.  He also discusses:  MAPS' involvement with the NFL for their 'My Cause, My Cleats' campaign, and how the San Francisco 49ers' Jon Feliciano is bringing awareness to psychedelic healing Details about MAPS' first responders training, fiscal sponsorship program, international therapist education program, and upcoming membership program (launching in June) The success of MAPS' Psychedelic Science and his hopes for the 2025 edition, taking place June 16 - 20 at the Denver Convention Center Dr. Carl Hart, drug exceptionalism, and the importance of creating safe containers and inclusive drug policy  and more! For links and more, head to the show notes page.

In this episode, Joe interviews Keeper Trout: archivist, author, photographer, co-founder of the Cactus Conservation Institute, and creator of Trout's Notes, a website compiling personal research and collected data to help ethnobotanical researchers. From an interest in cactus taxonomy, Sasha Shulgin urged Trout to go through his files, resulting in a friendship, and eventually, an 8-year project of digitizing all of these files into the ever-evolving Shulgin Archive. Trout discusses: His relationship with Sasha and The Shulgin Farm project, which aims to make the farm a community resource for therapy, research, events, and more The messiness of cactus taxonomy, and how he believes we're nearing the end of being able to properly identify cacti The perception of LSD as unnatural and why the natural vs. synthetic argument is largely political Why repealing the Controlled Substances Act is the path we should take over decriminalization or legalization and more! For links and more, head to the show notes page.

In this episode, Alexa interviews April Pride: creative entrepreneur, veteran of the cannabis space, and now, founder of SetSet, an educational platform and podcast (picking up where The High Guide left off) for women curious about psychedelics. With Alexa about to embark on the journey of motherhood, she asks many of the questions parents working with psychedelics have to consider: How do you overcome the stigmas of being a psychedelic parent? How do you talk to your children about drugs? How do you know if a substance is ok to use during pregnancy? Pride discusses: Being dubbed "the weed mom" and why she embraced the nickname Parenting children around drug use and how parents lose credibility when they lie (the kids are going to know) The need for more research into how substances interact with women's cycles and changing hormones Knowing when to trust your doctor and how more conversations lead to more knowledgeable doctors Microdosing psilocybin and the developing SetSet protocol and more! For links and more, head to the show notes page.

In this episode, Joe interviews Paul F. Daley, Ph.D., who worked with Sasha Shulgin in his lab for the last seven years of his life, helping him finish (and co-authoring) "The Shulgin Index, Volume One: Psychedelic Phenethylamines and Related Compounds." He is now the co-founder, Chief Science Officer, and Director of Analytical Science at the Alexander Shulgin Research Institute (ASRI), focusing on the discovery and development of novel psychedelic compounds. While Sasha was passionate about self-experimentation, the Institute is aiming for the next step for these drugs: FDA approval.   He discusses:  Meeting Sasha at the 2nd international conference on hallucinogenic mushrooms in Washington D.C. Bonding with Sasha while reviewing the autopsy of researcher Robert van den Bosch for possible foul play The two compounds ASRI is closest to being able to test in clinical trials The 5-HT2B receptor, risk of valvular disease, and why we will likely be hearing more about this going forward How AI and new technology can lead to better safety science   and more! Click here to head to the show notes page.

In this episode, David interviews Osiris González Romero: philosopher and Postdoctoral researcher on cognitive freedom and psychedelic humanities at the University of Saskatchewan. Romero believes that our weakest point of research is our knowledge of Indigenous languages, and is focused on highlighting different cultural uses of psychedelics to better inform future drug policy. He's currently studying more than 100 documents (including one over 400 years old) to establish an honest understanding of why peyote was ever banned. He discusses: Mesoamerican psychedelics and their relevance to cognitive liberty and decolonization How the War on Drugs is our main colonial legacy The concepts of an ontological turn and ontological pluralism The neocolonial, biomedical, and spiritual paradoxes found inside the 'psychedelic renaissance' How imagination is often viewed through a lens of illusion rather than problem solving or creativity and more! Click here to head to the show notes page.

In this episode, Joe interviews Maria Mangini, Ph.D., FNP: researcher, educator, and midwife who has worked closely with many psychedelic innovators and was part of the original social network at Shulgin Farm – where this episode was recorded. She traces her journey from the influence of pioneers like the Wassons, Shulgins, and Grofs, and historic places like Esalen and Millbrook. She discusses: Her early experiences with the Grofs at Esalen and how she met the Shulgins Gregory Bateson guiding her to become a midwife The similarities between midwifery and psychedelic facilitation The unsung work of Denis Berry in saving the Timothy Leary archives How the working relationship of the Shulgins is a perfect example of the coequality society should strive for and more! Click here to head to the show notes page.

In this episode, released on Ann Shulgin's birthday, Joe interviews Wendy Tucker: daughter of Ann and stepdaughter to Alexander "Sasha" Shulgin. Recorded in Sasha's old office, she recounts her formative years, giving an insider's look into her Mother's openness about psychedelics, working with Sasha in the lab, how the Shulgins made a perfect team, and watching a close-knit circle of self-experimenters start to form at Shulgin Farm – and keep coming back over the years. She talks about the energy infused into the property from the decades of research and gatherings, and how she is trying to preserve it – not just to capture its history and the pioneering research that happened there, but as a beacon for future generations. She imagines weddings, conferences, other communal gatherings, and more. Imagine taking a chemistry course in Sasha Shulgin's lab? To learn more about the project and to donate, head to Shulginfarm.org. Click here to head to the show notes page and watch the video.

In this episode, Joe interviews Juan Pablo Cappello: co-founder and former CEO of Nue Life Health, whose assets were subsequently acquired by Beckley Waves. Cappello digs into his recent article which has been making waves across the psychedelic community: "Profit Over Patients? A Critical Look at At-Home Ketamine Therapy." He created Nue Life with the goal of helping a million people address the root cause of their anxiety, and while the company was successful, he began to see a problematic trend: that using ketamine while providing services of a mental health company is very expensive and resource-consuming, and as companies saw a large percentage of clients requiring maintenance doses, the most profitable business model became essentially slinging ketamine to patients without providing any real integration or aftercare. Are these companies promising healing but really only guaranteeing recurring revenue? He talks about: How this emerging model makes it harder for ethical practitioners to be able to provide their services The tools they built at Nue Life for long-term benefit, and why these should be the main focus – not repeated ketamine Matthew Perry's death and how the media was quick to place the blame on ketamine The need for companies and communities to come to gather and create ethical industry standards for the at-home ketamine model How cannabis was almost decriminalized under the Carter administration and more! Click here to head to the show notes page.

In this episode, David interviews Dr. 1Drea Pennington Wasio: integrative physician, psychedelic-assisted therapy facilitator and psilocybin retreat leader, international speaker, podcaster, and author of several books, including "Sacred Medicine: Exploring The Psychedelic Hero's Journey." She discusses her personal metamorphosis and name change inspired by a powerful ayahuasca experience, and how that moved her into a life more inspired by authenticity and self-love. She gives the details of her retreats, explains her PRISM sessions, and talks in depth about the magic of resiliency: How can we not just return to baseline, but experience post-traumatic growth? She talks about: The power of tuning into creativity in times of depression The efficacy of narrative therapy and writing in general The universal themes of 'The Hero's Journey' and how much agency matters The importance of embracing nonfiction, and her upcoming book series, "The Dreamweaver's Legacy" The potential of microdosing psilocybin for menopause and more! Her new course on trauma-informed psychedelic therapy begins this month, and her next retreat begins May 10. Head to 1drea.com for details. Click here to head to the show notes page.

In this episode, David interviews Itzhak Beery: author, shamanic teacher, speaker, trip leader, and founder of ShamanPortal.org, an online community and resource for people who want to learn, practice, and teach shamanic traditions. Beery shares his transformational journey, starting from his upbringing on a kibbutz in Israel, to his disillusioned advertising days in Manhattan, to the life-altering sweat lodge experience in Hawaii that eventually led him to write the book, Shamanic Transformations: True Stories of the Moment of Awakening, and realize his true purpose. He discusses the two major sides of trust: how to know when a healing path has truly become your life purpose, and how to know who to trust as a good healer in a world of self-initiated shamans. He and David dig into: How we all have the innate ability to be a shaman How Westerners are often seeking healing too young, before they have the capacity to truly understand lessons they may receive His upcoming book which attempts to teach practitioners how to create narratives out of symbols, The Language of Spirit The importance in not denying the experiencer's truth and more! Click here to head to the show notes page.

In this episode, Johanna interviews Laura Reeves: Glastonbury-based facilitator and medicine woman trained in craniosacral therapy, somatic experiencing, breathwork, and more, who holds retreats at sacred sites in the U.K. and Peruvian Amazon. She tells of her journey from serendipitously booking a trip to Ecuador just as she first heard about ayahuasca, to the early ayahuasca experiences that showed her our true interconnectedness, to a heroic dose of psilocybin and a trip to the hospital, to being accepted into training with an Indigenous shaman in the Amazon. With a lifelong love of nature, paganism, and ancient traditions, she stresses the importance of connecting to the natural rhythms of the Earth and harnessing its energy. She talks about: Self-initiated shamans and the dangers that can come from bad actors operating out of integrity and respect for the lineage Ayahuasca as a purgative and the power of energetic clearings Her experience with shamans using Icaros to channel the sounds of plants Shadow work and its role in personal growth and healing The energy of Glastonbury, feeling deep connections to sacred places, and how ley lines inspire places of pilgrimage and more! Click here to head to the show notes page.

In this episode, Joe and guest co-host Erica Rex interview Elizabeth Anglin: spirit medium, animal communicator, intuitive healer, alien abductee, and author of Experience: Memoirs of an Abducted Childhood. She talks about her early abduction experiences, the time when she and her father realized they were both being abducted at the same time (from different locations), and the horrifying experience of six beings entering her apartment and realizing she knew one of them. These experiences led her to Budd Hopkins, and eventually John Mack (who did regression work with her) and the John E. Mack Institute, where she became a peer mentor for abductees. She talks about the validity of alien abductions, the concept of spiritual ecology, and the importance of listening to people: There's so much we don't know, so is it fair to label experiencers as schizophrenic just because we can't replicate the experience? She discusses: The commonality of people from the same family being abducted and why some people are lifetime abductees while others are only taken once The differences in abductions and how some seem to only be mental while others are physical and extremely painful The story of Linda Napolitano and the famous Brooklyn Bridge abduction Regressive hypnotherapy work: Are the memories you're recovering accurate? Quantum biology, the Penrose-Hameroff quantum theory of consciousness, parallel realities, time travel, and quantum jumping and so much more! As the X-Files made famous: The truth is out there. And this episode is definitely pretty out there! Click here to head to the show notes page.

In this episode, Christopher Koddermann interviews Dr. Sam Banister: co-founder and chief scientific officer of Psylo, an Australian biotech company developing next-generation psychedelics. Banister discusses how he got involved in drug development, how Psylo came about, and the hallucinogenic and non-hallucinogenic 5-HT2A agonists Psylo is working on. He talks about the compromise between immediate need and ambition, and the ethical considerations and possibilities behind developing non-hallucinogenic compounds: What can we take from the psychedelic experience for people who aren't ideal candidates for one? Is the psychedelic experience truly necessary? And for what indications will these new Gen 3 compounds be most useful? He discusses: What we can infer about the volatility of biotech and the state of the psychedelic industry based on recent mergers and acquisitions The long-term challenges of drug development and the scalability of treatment options How the initial success of Spravato has played a role in allaying fears around new compounds Head twitch response and concerns it's not as accurate of a metric as we've believed Australia's decision to down-schedule psilocybin and MDMA, and the speed of implementation and licensing: How long will it be before people have easy access? What he sees for the future and why we need to be careful with language around expectations and more! Click here to head to teh show notes page.

In this episode, Joe interviews Dr. Robin Carhart-Harris: founder and head of the Centre for Psychedelic Research at Imperial College London, founding director of the Neuroscape Psychedelics Division at University of California, San Francisco (UCSF), and founder of the Carhart-Harris Lab. A legendary researcher, he talks about his psychedelic origins: studying Freud, Jung, and eventually Stan Grof and depth psychology to try and better understand the unconscious. He discusses the growth of psychedelics and the cultural shifts he's noticed (especially in the U.S.), as well as what he's working on today: researching the influence of psychedelics on set and setting by studying experiences in both enriched and unenriched environments. He also talks about: Plasticity: how he defines it, how it relates to critical reopening periods, and how it's a fundamental thing that transcends the metrics we use to measure it Early LSD studies, the nervousness surrounding he and David Nutt dosing Ben Sessa, and the youthful energy that kept them going How plasticity could be exploited to help relieve chronic pain The potential of psychedelics to help with fibromyalgia and anorexia How psychedelic-assisted therapy brought care back to health care and more! UCSF is seeking survey volunteers, so if you've had more than three experiences with ketamine, MDMA, and psilocybin (must have experiences with all three) and want to contribute, do so here. Click here to head to the show notes page.

In this episode, Joe interviews Alyssa Gursky, LPC: artist, research associate and study therapist at the Social Neuroscience and Psychotherapy (SNaP) lab, and founder of Psychedelic Art Therapy LLC, which pioneers ketamine-assisted art therapy. She talks about her first mushroom experience and how her art and creative process instantly felt different – how the judgment and concern about where the art was going disappeared and was replaced by a freedom; a return to a more childlike way of being, where all that mattered was the fun of the creative process, and expressing her inner world in art. They realized how much the creative process related to true embodiment and the ability to be fully present, and how healing it can be to simply be with other people and create art.  She talks about: The power of being seen in a group, and how the bravery of one person can completely shift the group dynamic The need for mentorship in the psychedelic space The comfort and freedom found in affinity groups The inspiring lives of Genesis P-Orridge and avant-garde filmmaker, Alejandro Jodorowsky Rick Rubin's ability to treat creativity as a spiritual act and how attending a live wrestling event aligns with non-ordinary states. Gursky is launching a virtual education and support group this March for anyone who wants to integrate art into client work or their own process. Visit her instagram for details. Click here to head to the show notes page.

In this episode, Joe interviews Matthew 'Whiz' Buckley: former decorated US Navy F/A-18 Hornet fighter pilot and now, founder and CEO of No Fallen Heroes Foundation, a non-profit focused on healing veterans and first responders with psychedelic-assisted therapy. Buckley met Joe in D.C. while they were both campaigning for psychedelic therapy to any lawmaker they could speak with. He talks about how the government is spending a fortune on the military, but not paying the total cost, since so much of that is externalized onto the soldiers themselves. He points out how many of them care more about making money than saving lives, and how we need "We the people" moments to wake them up or remove them from office. He discusses: His time in the Navy and his transition back to civilian life, coming to terms with trauma and realizing how much was physical (including tinnitus) His life-changing experiences under ibogaine and 5-MeO-DMT with the Mission Within How we should be teaching veterans about various mental health options (including psychedelic-assisted therapy) as part of their transition process The signing of the National Defense Authorization Act and the disappointing amount of money reserved for psychedelic research: Was it all just lip service? The complications that arise when trying to get benefits from the VA while also trying to move on: When honesty about mental health isn't incentivized, when do you tell the truth? His experience operating legally in Colorado and how he plans to stay on top of Governor Desantis to bring psychedelics to Florida and more! Click here to head to the show notes page.

In this episode, David interviews Saga Briggs: freelance journalist and author of "How to Change Your Body: The Science of Interoception and Healing Through Connection to Yourself and Others." A collection of interviews, peer-reviewed research, and personal story; the book dives deep into the mind-body connection, how to become more embodied, and our need for social connection – which factors into mental and physical health far more than most of us realize. The nod to Michael Pollan's book is also a challenge: Have we been focusing too much on our minds and now it's time to pay more attention to our bodies? How much of the benefit of psychedelic experiences is related to truly experiencing our bodies? She discusses: How neuroscience is starting to look more at brain-body interactions, and the psychedelic space's growing interest in somatics The minimal and narrative selves: Do psychedelics make the minimal self traverse over the narrative self? Flexible switching and applying interoception to a social context Her concept of a 'possibility space' and new ways of perceiving The benefit of adding embodiment practices to psychedelic assisted therapy – especially during preparation and integration and more! Click here to head to the show notes page.

In this episode, Joe interviews Steve Rio: psychedelic guide, performance and transformation coach, musician, and co-founder of Enfold, a retreat center in BC, Canada. While Enfold caters each experience to each client, they largely work with 5-MeO-DMT (which is unregulated in Canada); partly because of its power, and partly because Rio realized how much was missing in terms of safety and process when using the substance. They are trying to fill in the gaps, working with the University Health Network Centre for Mental Health to analyze measurements of mindfulness, DAS tests, the Brief Inventory of Thriving survey, and language used when describing experiences to collect as much qualitative data as possible. He discusses their screening process, why they work with synthetic 5-MeO-DMT, why they encourage everyone to go to a group session, and how 5-MeO seems to bypass psychological processes and largely be related to somatic release. He talks about: The power of 5-MeO and being humble and honest with yourself: Are you stable enough to handle the dysregulation? 5-MeO bad actors and 'Drive-by 5' people who show up, do the drug, and leave The plight of Sonoran Dessert toads and the need for more data around their declining populations How 5-MeO seems to connect people with a higher power, and the need for the experiencer to find their own context for it The importance of creating a clean and open container for spirituality and meeting the client where they are and more! Click here to head to the show notes page.

In this episode, Joe interviews Ayize Jama-Everett: author, educator, filmmaker, and therapist with a long history of work in substance use and mental health services. When Jama-Everett was last on the show, "A Table of Our Own" – a film focusing on healing, psychedelics, and bonds within the Black community – was still in its infancy. It's now complete, and he and others behind the film are touring with it, with showings coming up in Detroit, LA, and Boston. A free follow-up discussion hosted by CIIS' Center for Psychedelic Therapies and Research is happening Feb. 15, and, from February 15-16 only, the film is available to rent online. He gives his full origin story: growing up around substance use, how he got into therapy and healing people through journeys, how "A Table of Our Own" came about, and how it was influenced by mushrooms. Then he discusses a lot more, with a much-needed critical eye: His experiences with some notorious bad actors in the facilitation space Decriminalization and how we celebrate small wins while ignoring steps back Drug exceptionalism, the Drug War, and the demonization of crack Power dynamics and the dangerous concept of letting go Why the Black community is so skeptical of psychedelics And he talks about why it's so important to meet people where they are – that what works for one person or one community won't necessarily work for another, and the above-ground, corporatized, overly medicalized model will never work for everyone. Click here to head to the show notes page.

In this episode, Joe interviews Dr. Peter Grinspoon: primary care physician and cannabis specialist at Massachusetts General Hospital, TedX speaker, certified physician life coach, and author of the new book, Seeing Through the Smoke: A Cannabis Expert Untangles the Truth about Marijuana. He tells his story of growing up in a house where academics like John Mack and Carl Sagan regularly smoked cannabis, and being inspired by the groundbreaking books of his father, Lester Grinspoon. An outspoken advocate for drug policy reform and embracing different, non-AA paths to recovery, he talks about how he got there: his opiate addiction, fall from medicine, subsequent return, and learning just how deep the stigma against drugs goes, and how much the medical establishment is another arm of the Drug War. Seeing Through the Smoke aims to tell the truth about cannabis, especially on benefits and real and debunked harms. How can we get more physicians and lawmakers on our side if all they know is propaganda? He discusses: -The challenge in speaking honestly with physicians about drug use -Why physicians are in support of researching psychedelics but not cannabis -Stigmatized language and Drug War vibes in medical software -The truth about cannabis, schizophrenia, and the risk of drug-induced psychosis -Portugal and the 'Rat Park' model -The importance of listening to what patients are saying – especially when we don't have enough good data and more! Click here to head to the show notes page.

In this episode, Joe interviews Dr. Kate Pate: Ph.D. neurophysiologist; Founder and CEO of Coruna Medical; founding board member of the Psychedelic Medicine Association; and Founder of The Way Back, a company that will provide education and coaching services related to military, veteran, and first responder health – often in wilderness settings. She talks about her introduction to psychedelics through the Heroic Hearts Project, where she later served as an integration coach and director of research, looking at psilocybin for traumatic brain injury symptoms, and how the gut microbiome changes after ingesting ayahuasca. She points out that gut health hasn't been a focus of research, but it's now emerging as a key indicator of physical and mental health. So, how do psychedelics, particularly plant-based ones, come into play? Are the long term shifts after an experience related to a change in the bacteria inside of us? She breaks down what a microbiome is and how it changes based on diet; how inflammation is created and the inflammatory cascade that happens after a head injury; how toxins create a stress response similar to an allergic reaction; the frustrations of vets and the limited resources of the VA; the commonality of substance and alcohol use disorders in people coming home from service; the many nonprofits she's worked with; and how important it is to increase science funding from the government. Click here to head to the show notes page.

In this episode, Joe speaks with Paul F. Austin: Founder & CEO of Third Wave, Founder of Psychedelic Coaching Institute, and host of Third Wave's The Psychedelic Podcast. Recorded in-person at this year's reMind conference, this episode – a shared release with Third Wave – is a rare glimpse into the inner workings of both Psychedelics Today and Third Wave, with Joe and Paul reconnecting after early podcast appearances and interviewing each other about where they've come from and where they're going now that they're so many years into this. Paul breaks down Third Wave's history and new coaching training program, and Joe discusses Vital: Why he invested in Vital over an investment raise, what we've learned from the first two cohorts, how we've handled scholarships, and why sometimes losing money can be worth it if it's for the greater good. They talk about the challenge of keeping the lights on while trying to create something new; the balance of running a media company while building out an educational platform; the importance of staying focused and ignoring the noise; the relationship-building they've seen from their students; why we need to welcome the corporate types we may be inclined to dismiss; and why seeding good actors in as many roles and communities as possible is vital to the growth of psychedelics.  Click here to head to the show notes page.

In this episode, Joe interviews Ryan Latreille: Founder of Hearthstone Collective, which sells functional mushrooms and low-dose kanna designed for microdosing; and Kanna Extract Co., which is focused on offering high-potency kanna extracts more for ceremonial and recreational use. He talks about how he found his way to kanna; his first psychedelic experience (kanna mixed with MDMA); how he worked with a Koi tribal leader to find high-alkaloid kanna; how they created the strain they use; and why so many people are interested in kanna and more people should try it, as he believes it's not only a natural alternative to other substances and alcohol, but also a great entry point for people looking to experiment with microdosing. If you want to learn a lot about kanna, this is the episode for you, as it is all discussed: How dosing should be done depending on what you're looking for; whether or not it's fair to say kanna is 'MDMA-lite'; Indigenous history of usage; drug interactions and safety; the journey from seed to harvest; a breakdown of different grades of kanna; how the ratio of different alkaloids creates different experiences; and what could be possible by combining different alkaloids, different strains, and by pairing with different substances. Click here to head to the show notes page.

In this episode, Kyle interviews Emma Knighton: Somatic trauma therapist, Vital instructor, and psychedelic integration therapist focusing on consciousness exploration, complex PTSD from childhood abuse, and queer identity development. This episode is a bit of a masterclass on consent and boundaries within the client/practitioner relationship. She discusses power dynamics: how conflicts arise due to the breaking of established boundaries; safety, and embracing the idea of creating a container that is 'safe enough' to go into places that feel unsafe; and the importance of maintaining agreed-upon boundaries no matter how much the client may want to break them. They discuss ways to fulfill the need for touch when touch was not agreed upon, and the concept of practicing touch interactions before the experience – that playing out possible scenarios will create a somatic map so bodies remember what it feels like to be near each other while one body is deep in an experience. And she talks about much more: What she's learned from the kink and sex work community and their similarities with the psychedelic world; ways to handle consent in group settings; the clash between giving people agency but needing to step in and protect them; restorative justice models and how they could be used in a much-needed psychedelic practitioner accountability system; the need for practitioners to continue doing their own work; and how part of true consent is being honest about one's own limitations or conflicts as a practitioner. Click here to head to the show notes page.

In this episode, Joe interviews Erik Vaughan: Co-Founder and Manager of Epiphany mushrooms, a mushroom and mental health company based in Akron, Ohio. Epiphany mushrooms will initially be selling Lion's Mane, Reishi, and Cordyceps, and they plan to expand into more functional mushrooms while also pursuing a license to operate healing centers in Colorado. Vaughan was involved in changing Colorado's psilocybin legislation after lobbying to add a section that allows product testing labs to register and charge for their services – while voluntary and complementary to required testing, it allows growers to have an unlimited amount of product for testing purposes; adds an extra step in keeping the grower and lab in compliance with state law; and, as more states work on their own legislation, highlights the need for potency testing to let customers know exactly what they're ingesting.  He discusses changing attitudes and how Michigan can lead the way for the midwest; why he's excited about Colorado and what they got right; the enthusiasm of the mycology crowd; Rick Perry's speech at Psychedelic Science 2023; the iron law of prohibition and mushroom products sold in Ohio; and the incredible inefficiency of the drug war (when viewed like it was not designed to do exactly what it's doing). Click here to head to the show notes page.

In this episode, Joe interviews Christine Calvert: Licensed Chemical Dependency Counselor and certified Holotropic Breathwork® facilitator. She talks about how addiction led her to breathwork, how breathwork has helped her over the years, how breathwork can be a compliment to other self-work, and how becoming comfortable with breathwork first could be a very important stepping stone towards better understanding the psychedelic experience. She talks about how years of breathwork helped her navigate complicated states of consciousness, and the incredible benefit of learning to trust our body's capacity to heal itself.  She discusses using bodywork in sessions and the importance of having the experiencer be the one who requests it; how much a facilitator's past relationship with touch affects how they use touch; the risk in meditation vs. the safety of breathwork; the concept of learning self-awareness; how profound it is to be witnessed in breathwork's dyad model; and why researching and creating guidelines for this kind of work seems impossible. Click here to head to the show notes page.

In this episode, recorded in-person at the recent reMind conference, Joe interviews Kaci Hohmann and Dave Kopilak: business attorneys at Emerge Law Group and co-chairs of Emerge's psychedelics practice group. Hohmann also serves as Chair of the Oregon State Bar's Cannabis and Psychedelics Law Section. They were both drafters of Oregon Measure 109 (with Kopilak as the primary drafter), so this episode goes deep into the details, legalities, and possibilities behind Measure 109. What licenses are involved? What does a business heading to Oregon need to prepare for? What do they think the feds will do and how does that relate to cannabis' Cole Memorandum? What is tax code 280E and how can its effects be minimized? What do they see the future looking like? They discuss what they do for clients at Emerge Law Group; the differences between the cannabis and psychedelics industries; why service centers are likely more important than the products; and how the psilocybin service center experience is more like a relationship with clients than anything in the cannabis world, which makes everything much more complicated – but also much safer. Joe also highlights some recent news, including MAPS PBC rebranding to Lykos Therapeutics, symptoms from traumatic brain injuries being improved by the combination of ibogaine and magnesium, and more! Click here to head to the show notes page.

In this episode, Joe interviews Mike Margolies: community catalyst; conversation creator; Founder of Psychedelic Seminars; and Co-Founder and Co-Steward of the Global Psychedelic Society. The Global Psychedelic Society was created for all of the different psychedelic societies that have sprung up over the world to connect, share resources and information with each other, and be housed in a central hub so people can find them more easily. He talks about Frederic Laloux's book, "Reinventing Organizations," and modeling the GPS around the "Teal" concept of organization, where employees are encouraged to show up as their true, honest, and most powerful selves; where it's more about relationships than hierarchy; and more about embracing a mycelial – and psychedelic – way of thinking and interacting with each other. He breaks down how this way of thinking has progressed from the earliest ways of organizing, and discusses its three main principles of self-governance, wholeness, and evolutionary purpose. He then talks about the Boom Festival: its "Liminal Village," its inventive Kosmicare harm reduction program, and how drugs are not as decriminalized as people think in Portugal; and Burning Man: how it all came together for him this year when he didn't even want to go, his experiences with the rain and a friend's dreams warning of floods, what he learned from the ghost of a lost friend, and how that resulted in the concept of Batman doing a striptease to Seal's "Kiss From a Rose." Is the Joker simply a manifestation of Batman's shadow material and his desire to be a hero? Yea, this one gets weird… Click here to head to the show notes page.

In this episode of Vital Psychedelic Conversations, David interviews Christine Caldwell: graduate of the first cohort of Vital and Founder of End of Life Psychedelic Care (EOLPC); and Mary Telliano: end-of-life coach, psychedelic facilitator, and Founder of The Anam Cara Academy, which trains people in the art of end-of-life coaching. Whether we're comfortable with it or not, we're all going to die. And research shows that psychedelic experiences can help tremendously with the anxiety and depression that surround that inevitable transition between realms. Caldwell and Telliano discuss the role of a death doula; how they found their way into end-of-life care; why the West's relationship with death changed during the Civil War; the role of families in the process; the legality of providing end-of-life psychedelics and the complications that arise when people are unable to leave their homes; and how different substances can be used based on each person's abilities and comfort level.  They talk about why the mystical experience of psychedelics can be so helpful during this process (and how the placebo effect can be a very real factor); tell a few stories of amazing things they've witnessed while doing this work; and drive the point home of how important it is for us to reintegrate death as a natural part of life – to have rites of passage around death, to learn from death, and, much like we need to remember our inner healing capacity, realize that we all have the capacity to play the role of a death doula for someone else. Click here to head to the show notes page.  Click here to apply to Vital! Applications close on January 14.

In this episode, we toast to the beginning of an exciting and hopefully groundbreaking 2024 by switching things up a bit. Christopher Koddermann, Co-Founder and Chair of Board of the International Therapeutic Psilocybin Rescheduling Initiative (ITPRI) will be conducting some interviews for PT, and in this episode, he does his first – with our Co-Founders, Joe Moore and Kyle Buller. Kyle tells the story of his fateful New Years Eve snowboarding trip that resulted in a near death experience and a complete change in his life's trajectory, and Joe discusses his more academic roots and how he and Kyle were united through their shared passion for the work of Stan Grof, holotropic breathwork, and transpersonal psychology. Psychedelics Today was created largely with no aims other than to promote transpersonal psychology and archive the best insights from their mentors, but has obviously turned into so much more, mostly from the simple goal of trying to spread the word through interesting conversations. They talk about the growth of PT; how they got involved in education; the harms of the drug war; why decriminalization isn't enough; where they see 'the psychedelic renaissance' going; what has surprised them the most in the last few years; and what we're most proud of: Vital – how it came to be created, what's involved, the benefits of the retreats, the self-discovery they've witnessed, and what they've learned through two successful cohorts. The next edition of Vital begins on January 23, and we've extended applications until January 14, so if you've been curious if Vital is the answer you've been looking for, now is the time to act! Click here to head to the show notes page.

In this episode, Kyle interviews Kayse Gehret, the Founder of Microdosing for Healing, an international virtual community and coaching program supporting microdosing practice. She tells the story of embracing microdosing and her grand mal seizure disorder going away, and how the inability to touch people during the pandemic led to the creation of Microdosing for Healing. She breaks down the details of the program, challenges she's seen, and the importance of using every effective modality possible to align with each person's individual experience. The next 6-Week Immersion Group course begins January 26. She talks about how accessing the body is usually the best entry point to healing; how effective journaling and other personal development practices are to recognize change (especially with how subtle microdosing can be); the efficacy of group process; how physicians are beginning to see the power in community and connection; concerns over the "jump in the deep end" attitude of many people leading to destabilizing experiences; how regular check-ins are important to keep people connected to their original intention; and the idea that people are striving for an unattainable state of perfection - that our goal should be a constant state of improvement and aligning ourselves to who we are meant to be - and microdosing until we don't need to microdose anymore. Click here to head to the show notes page.

In this episode, Joe interviews Mike Finoia: standup comedian, Producer for the hit show, "Impractical Jokers," and co-host of the Comes a Time Podcast with Dead & Company bassist, Oteil Burbridge. His new Special, "Don't Let Me Down," is out now. He talks about his early days of recreational drug use at jam band shows; a powerful psilocybin experience; passing out before his first ketamine experience and how his commitment has made subsequent experiences much smoother; and how his continued work has allowed him to focus on what's truly important. He's seen positive results from talking about his ketamine-assisted psychotherapy experiences on stage, and he's working on new material that will be much more focused on not just psychedelics, but the therapy, self-work, and growth he's gone through in his journey. He also discusses the influence of other comedians; the bioavailability in different ketamine methods; how psychedelics are like a performance-enhancing drug; the importance of having a working, attainable idea of success and not getting caught up in other people's lives; the benefit of asking people in the audience to raise their hands if they've done psychedelics; and the importance of recognizing that psychedelics are absolutely not for everyone – at least if they're not ready. Click here to head to the show notes page.

In this episode, Joe and Kyle are honored to welcome back Stanislav and Brigitte Grof: Stan being the person who kickstarted their interest in non-ordinary states of consciousness, breathwork, and this podcast; and Brigitte: his other half, co-creator of Grof® Legacy Training, and support system (and often, voice) since his stroke a few years back. They discuss the recently released Stanislav Grof, LSD Pioneer: From Pharmacology to Archetypes, which Brigitte assembled in honor of Stan's 90th birthday. It celebrates his life's work in pioneering research into non-ordinary states of consciousness and transpersonal psychology, and features an extended interview with Stan; testimonials from a number of legends in the psychedelic and psychological fields like Jack Kornfield, Rupert Sheldrake, Richard Tarnas, and Fritjof Capra; and a large photo album of rarely seen pictures, including Stan doing his first experiments with LSD. And they talk about so much more: The evolution of LSD psychotherapy as Stan realized people's experiences were coming from the psyche rather than any pharmacology; why he started practicing and teaching breathwork; Stan's love of treasure hunts; how the perinatal matrices were born and how each corresponds to astrology and religious archetypes; why experience in breathwork can be so beneficial to better psychedelic experiences and facilitation; why integration is equally as important as the experience; and an argument to take archetypal astrology more seriously – that there is often a synchronicity that can't be denied between these archetypes, events, and experiences. Click here to head to the show notes page.

In this episode of Vital Psychedelic Conversations, Johanna interviews Angie Leek, LMFT/LPC-S, SEP: Vital instructor, Founder of the Holos Foundation for Transpersonal Healing, and psychotherapist offering KAP through her private practice, Holos Counseling; and Justin LaPree: Vital graduate, decorated Marine, former firefighter, and Founder and President of Heroic Path to Light; a retreat center in Austin, Texas offering psychedelic-assisted therapy and community to veterans, first responders, and Gold/White Star families. LaPree shares his personal journey of struggling to reintegrate into life after war and the daily traumas he lived as a firefighter leading to an eventual suicide attempt, and the healing he found when he rediscovered the community and purpose he had been longing for. And Leek tells her story of her spiritual emergency and the nonlinear path she found for coming to terms with her repressed trauma, further illustrating a common theme we see in this space of the wounded healer, and the challenge of taking care of yourself first in order to be able to heal others. They discuss the importance of specialized communities for trauma healing; the need for a support system and the power of sharing experiences with others; how they both work with their clients, the idea of viewing preparation as "pre-integration"; why families and friends also need to be prepared; and how, if you feel like something needs to change or you're in need of a community, maybe it all begins with you. They also talk about how much they loved Vital and the impact it's had on their life paths. The deadline for applications for the 2024 cohort of Vital is tomorrow, December 20, at midnight, so if you're ready to take the leap, head to vitalpsychedelictraining.com to apply now! Click here to head to the show notes page.

In this episode, Joe interviews Mason Marks, MD, JD: drug policy analyst, writer, Professor at the Florida State University College of Law, and senior fellow and project lead of the Project on Psychedelics Law and Regulation (POPLAR) at the Petrie-Flom Center for Health Law Policy, Biotechnology, and Bioethics. As somewhat of an expert on drug policy and FDA regulation, Marks discusses much of the current legal landscape: What was controversial and most interesting about the FDA's recent guidance for researchers running clinical trials; how an amendment changed Colorado's Natural Medicine Act and the odd vibe coming from the rule-making process (very private with canceled meetings and a notable lack of urgency); concerns over Oregon's confusing program not being sustainable; and how Senate Bill 303 drastically changed confidentiality and how personal data would be collected in the state.  He also discusses the complications and ethics of end-of-life care and psychedelics; the theoretical heart valve risk from chronic use and ways we could research this; the challenge of informed consent; the legal risk of transactions involving people gifting illegal substances; the Gracias Foundation's recent $16 million grant to Harvard and how people at Harvard feel about psychedelics; and more.  POPLAR, which was founded to essentially change laws around psychedelics, is hosting a conference on February 16 in Manhattan called "Drug Law for the 21st Century," which will be looking back on 50 years of DEA drug policy and envisioning what could be different going forward. Click here to head to the show notes page.

In this episode, Joe interviews Flor Bollini. Named "The Corporate Shaman" by Forbes Magazine, she is an entrepreneur, medicine woman, and the Founder and CEO of NANA Health. NANA Health is a platform that provides best practices, educational content, and peer to peer support around a framework that is fully personalized, using what they call "psychedelic-initiated transformative medicine." Inspired by feminine energy, African tradition, and Ayurveda, their concept is that if you can't afford a luxurious retreat, what can you do at home? What are the lifetime practices and biohacking techniques that can enable your self-healing capabilities to take over, with or without any psychedelics? Is your trajectory reversible? She talks about accepting her healing destiny and what she learned from several ayahuasca experiences across different countries; contrast therapy and the use of sweat lodges throughout history; how so many of our struggles come from repressing sexual energy; why 5-MeO-DMT is the best tool to treat the most complex issues; the concept of using 5-MeO as a Eucharist in church; why we need to connect with the divine; and why we need more spirit in Western medicine. Click here to head to the show notes page.

In this episode of Vital Psychedelic Conversations, Johanna interviews Daan Keiman, MA: Buddhist, Psychedelic Chaplain, and Co-Founder of the psychedelic think-and-practice tank, Communitas Collective Foundation; Aura Ahuvia: Rabbi who served five years as President of the ALEPH (Alliance for Jewish Renewal) Board and is now the Founder of Psychedelic Rabbi; and Josh Harper: Consciousness Medicine Guide who works with Ligare, a Christian Psychedelic Society. They dig deep into the intersection of psychedelics and spirituality, focusing largely on the concept of psychedelic chaplaincy: how they each define it and how spiritual caregivers are uniquely positioned to be of service to those coming out of powerful and unexplainable mystical experiences (whether they be psychedelic or not). They discuss why being grounded in a spiritual tradition is important, but how it's often more important to be open to mystery and exploring that which is complex and difficult, even if that means someone questioning if their religion is truly right for them anymore. Each tell their stories of struggling with and eventually embracing their religion and how psychedelics and spirituality became part of their lives, and discuss much more: Psychedelics in religious history and the slow embrace of mysticism in today's renaissance; the importance of truly listening to individuals' experiences and not dismissing life-changing experiences as 'drug-induced'; how practice (no matter what kind) is a huge benefit of religion; and the need to eventually de-center psychedelics from the narrative – that the shared experience of coming together in community and asking big questions is where the healing truly lies.  Click here to head to the show notes page.

In this episode, Kyle interviews John H. Buchanan, Ph.D.: certified Holotropic Breathwork practitioner; contributing co-editor for Rethinking Consciousness: Extraordinary Challenges for Contemporary Science; and author of the new book, Processing Reality: Finding Meaning in Death, Psychedelics, and Sobriety. Recorded shortly after a week-long philosophy and breathwork conference which they both attended, they mostly dig into the challenging philosophical concepts of Alfred North Whitehead: how everything is made up of a feeling; how everything is relational and we all feel each other's experiences; how Whitehead defined occasions and how moments of experience are accessing the totality of the past; and how neurology and the mind-brain interaction impacts human experience. This analysis leads to a lot of questions: Is the past constantly present, in that it is an active influencer on all our actions? When we relive a past event, where does that live in our minds vs. bodies? Are we tapping into a universal storehouse of past events, or are we tapping into past lives (or into others past lives)? When we sense that someone is looking at us, what is that? He also discusses his realization that the experiential element of non-ordinary states of consciousness was the most important; his entry point into breathwork; why breathwork creates a perfect atmosphere for conversation; reincarnation and the idea of being reincarnated into other dimensions; the concept of objective immortality and how ripple effects from a single moment continue onward; and the fallacy of misplaced concreteness and psychoid experiences: Are they real beyond our psyche? Click here to head to the show notes page.

In this episode, David interviews Shauheen Etminan, Ph.D. and Jonathan Lu: Co-Founders of Magi Ancestral Supplements. Through studying ancient Zoroastrian writings and 2,000 year-old Chinese texts in search of compounds and formulations forgotten by history, Etminan and Lu co-founded drug discovery company VCENNA in 2019 to use extraction technology to isolate these compounds. This led to an understanding of the health properties behind beta-carbolines, which led to their nootropic company, Magi Ancestral Supplements. They talk about the early days and experimenting on themselves, how beta-carbolines create dream-like states, and how their research sent each of them further into their own heritage, and asking themselves: How do we remember what our ancestors knew?  They discuss espand, haoma, Syrian rue, and how common Syrian rue is in both Iranian culture and psychedelic history; what is a drug vs. what is a supplement; common threads they've seen across different cultures and how we may be repeating some of their mistakes; Etminan's recent ayahuasca experience with the Santo Daime church; and of course, some of Magi Ancestral Supplements' products and their expected effects – from deep meditation to lucid dreaming to even mild hallucinations. You can get 10% off any product using code PT10 here. Click here to head to the show notes page.

In this episode, Kyle interviews Bessel van der Kolk, MD: pioneer clinician, researcher, and educator on traumatic stress; Founder of the Trauma Research Foundation; Professor of Psychiatry at Boston University Medical School; Principal Investigator of the Boston site of MAPS' MDMA-assisted psychotherapy study; and author of the #1 New York Times Science best seller, The Body Keeps the Score: Brain, Mind, and Body in the Treatment of Trauma. As of this recording, van der Kolk was publishing his last paper and closing down his laboratory, so he looks back on his past: being part of the group who put together the first PTSD diagnosis in the 80s; the early days of psychedelic research and how he discouraged Rick Doblin and Michael Mithoefer from pursuing MDMA research; how the DSM has no scientific validity and was never meant for the diagnosing it's being used for; how science wasn't seeing the whole picture and pushing us mindlessly from medication to medication; and how trauma research has evolved over the years as society learned more about how the mind actually works.  He discusses the struggle to validate "softer" sciences; the impracticality and price of the MAPS protocol and the need for more group and sitter/experiencer frameworks; the efficacy of psychodrama and how that plays out in group sessions; his interest in using the Rorschach test more; how rolfing helped him; the problem with diagnosis and people becoming their illnesses; bodywork, somatic literacy, and how disconnected most people are from their bodies; and how, in all the healing frameworks he's explored, he has never seen anything work as profoundly as psychedelic-assisted therapy. Click here to head to the show notes page.

In this episode, Joe interviews Dana Lerman, MD: a decade-long infectious disease consultant who has since been trained in psychedelic-assisted therapy, ecotherapy, and Internal Family Systems, and is the Co-Founder of Skylight Psychedelics, where she prescribes IM ketamine and trains therapists who work with it. Lerman tells her story: how working with kids with cancer made her want to learn medicine, what it was like working as an infectious disease expert during COVID, and how fascinating it has been to start with modern medicine and then fully embrace the traditional frameworks of ayahuasca ceremonies. She has realized that part of her role is to bring that intention, ceremony, and inner healing intelligence to modern medicine – that that will greatly benefit patients as well as clinicians who naturally want to be healers but are burnt out by the bureaucracy and distractions of the faulty container they find themselves in. Skylight Psychedelics is working on opening a clinical research division, researching psychedelics for Long COVID, and bringing in-person psychedelic peer support services to emergency rooms. She also discusses intergenerational trauma and how psychedelics have affected her parenting; the impossibility of informed consent in psychedelics and why there should be disclaimers as well as instructions; accessibility, the need for insurance to cover psychedelic-assisted therapy, and why the price of these expensive treatments actually makes sense; why we should be sharing stories of mistakes and things going wrong during ceremonies; and why one of the biggest things we can do to further the cause is to educate our children and parents about psychedelics. Click here to head to the show notes page.

In this episode, Joe interviews neuroscientist, board-certified psychiatrist, health tech entrepreneur, inventor, and Co-Founder & Chief Medical Officer at Apollo Neuro: Dr. David Rabin, MD, Ph.D. He talks about his path to psychiatry; his realization that trauma and chronic stress were primary themes at the root of most mental illness; and the creation, research and implementation of the Apollo wearable: the first scientifically-validated wearable technology designed to improve energy, focus, and relaxation based on touch therapy. The idea was born from Rabin asking himself: If we're all starved for touch and constantly feeling unsafe, our bodies prefer a calm, soothed state, and MDMA seems to work by amplifying feelings of safety and essentially telling our brains, "you're safe enough to heal now," could a rhythmic vibration programmed to stimulate touch receptors and put our bodies into a meditative state fool our brains into the same perceived feeling of safety – especially if that stimulation is constant? Would our nervous systems be able to tell the difference? So far, the data seems to prove that this technology works.  He discusses what they learned from initial research about how people were using their Apollo wearables; heart rate variability and what changes it; MAPS' Phase III MDMA-assisted psychotherapy results; the idea of the inner healer; using the Apollo in conjunction with ketamine and other psychedelics to ease pre-experience anxiety; and the concept of MDMA-assisted psychotherapy as reverse trauma, the reality that it could stop epigenetic memory, and the question of whether or not the Apollo can do this on its own. Apollo Neuro is continuing their research by running 14 different trials right now, and if you ever participated in a MAPS trial, you're eligible for a free wearable. If you're just curious about trying the Apollo, you can receive $50 off using this link.  Click here to head to the show notes page.

In this episode of Vital Psychedelic Conversations, David speaks with two current Vital students: Certified Depth Hypnosis Practitioner and Founder and Executive Director of Zoo Labs, Vinitha Watson, CHT; and artist and outdoorsman with decades of experience in bodywork, structural integration, and Vipassana meditation: Judson Frost. They talk about their personal paths: Watson's work educating musicians about the music business and their value with Zoo Labs and Frost's work as an artist; as well as how their experience as parents has grounded them, and how they found Vital. They discuss the importance of integration, having a process, and recognizing how long that can take; being adequately prepared and learning mindfulness skills ahead of a journey; and bringing courage to the space (and as the space-holder, encouragement). They talk about how they hold space, and how one needs to view integration from a spiritually-open perspective to enable people to find their own meanings behind what they experienced.  They discuss how Watson uses a combination of hypnotherapy, transpersonal psychology, and buddhism to create a slowed down mystical experience; how hypnotherapy can benefit a psychedelic experience; bodywork and how we can't view the mind and body separately; and more. And since they're nearing the end of their Vital experience, they discuss what they've gotten out of it, and reflect on something they didn't expect: a collective feeling of regenerative healing inside their Vital community. Click here to head to the show notes page.

In this episode, Joe interviews internationally renowned musician, comedian, writer, and actor, Reggie Watts. Watts starred on "Comedy Bang! Bang!," most recently was the bandleader on CBS's "The Late Late Show with James Corden" for the last 8 seasons, and just released his memoir, "Great Falls, MT." Watts discusses his early days of LSD use and how he felt psychedelics and cannabis were useful (in contrast to alcohol); how movies and TV rarely get the psychedelic experience right (and is that because writers haven't experienced it?); and how the Situationist Movement inspired his concept of being a "disinformationist," which he uses to bring an instability and psychedelic nature to his shows. And he discusses ketamine: why he loves it (especially with other people), a party he recently attended where everyone was open to trying it together, and why the group collectively agreeing to go deeper is so important to the experience.  He shares his thoughts on treating certain drugs as bases and others as modifiers, and how the wrong drugs are being treated as bases; the negative feedback loops some drugs (cocaine, nitrous oxide) send us into; psychedelic exceptionalism and the low quality, synthesized drugs created solely out of capitalistic greed; microdosing and the question of whether or not it's become popular out of a fear of going deeper; what he wants to bring to to the psychedelic conversation; and why sometimes (in the right context), "going off the rails" can be a great thing. Click here to head to the show notes page.

In this episode, Kyle interviews Ted Riskin, LCSW: psychotherapist running group KAP sessions and certified in Core Energetics, Internal Family Systems, and Holotropic Breathwork, which he has taught in various forms for 26 years. He discusses group ketamine-assisted psychotherapy: how he runs sessions, why being welcomed and loved in a group seems to be a bigger factor than the psychedelic, how he came to combine IFS with ketamine or breathwork, and why exploring the parts work of IFS seems to work so well with non-ordinary states of consciousness. And he talks about two complications we often don't think about with Group KAP: the challenge of getting our different parts to all truly consent to an experience (and how do you get them to?), and how very safe spaces can inspire oversharing, and sadly, subsequent shame. He discusses knowing when to use a non-directive approach vs. intervening; how people often learn more about themselves as a sitter; using core energetics before experiences to move energy we're often afraid to work with; the importance of embracing anger (when necessary); memory reconsolidation and bringing exiles from the past into the present; the concept of double bookkeeping; and finding the magic in realizing that sometimes, just being there ("being a useless person" as he says) is all that's needed. Click here to head to the show notes page.

In this episode, Joe interviews Imran Khan: Executive Director of the UC Berkeley Center for the Science of Psychedelics. Khan shares his journey into the world of science and policymaking, beginning with science journalism and inspired by David Nutt's famous 'Equicy' paper and subsequent firing for telling the truth. Realizing how strong the disconnect was between political and science worlds, his goal became to represent science when it comes under attack; using campaigning, lobbying, advocacy work, etc., and essentially becoming a translator between science and society – bringing these overly complicated concepts down to a level every day culture can understand. At UC Berkeley, he's focusing on research, training scientists to be better communicators, educating the public on the benefits of psychedelics, and trying to make research more trustworthy. He discusses the word "science" and how it's used to describe lots of things; the hard problem of consciousness; color constancy, perception, and the influence of priors; the risk of abuse in all therapies; trust and why people don't always "trust the science"; the risks of putting too much faith in experience insights; the word "sacred"; and more. He concludes by discussing the findings of the first UC Berkeley psychedelic survey, which revealed public sentiments and attitudes towards psychedelics, and, while mostly positive, truly proved the need for people like Khan to be out there educating the public. Click here to head to the show notes page.

In this episode of Vital Psychedelic Conversations, David interviews Erika Dyck: Vital instructor, historian, professor, author, and editor of the new book, Expanding Mindscapes: A Global History of Psychedelics; and Jono Remington-Hobbs: graduate of the first cohort of Vital, coach, facilitator, and now, Co-Founder of Kaizn, an experiential wellness company with a strong focus on community, creating a feeling of safety, and modern rites of passage.  They talk a lot about rites of passage and how they create liminal spaces to reflect on the deeper questions we need to ponder but our culture doesn't allow time for. They talk about how categorization took us away from tradition; how so much of what we get out of these experiences isn't related to psychedelics at all; why we struggle with connection in the digital age; the power of community as medicine and recognizing a kinship in others; and why we need to integrate our heads and hearts and live more heart-led lives. They also dive into why cultures have always sought out non-ordinary states of consciousness; how our current state of needing to make sense of a chaotic world is similar to the mindstate of the 60s; psychedelics' success in palliative care; coaching and why it should be attached to therapy; the creation of the word "psychedelic"; flow states and discovering the intrinsic calling we all have; and the Vital question that starts the podcast out: Are psychedelics the future, or will psychedelics just bring about a different way to think about the future? Reminder that we're accepting applications for Vital 2024 now until December 21! Click here to head to the show notes page.

In this episode, David interviews Alexander Beiner: an Executive Director of Breaking Convention; writer of The Bigger Picture substack; and author of The Bigger Picture: How Psychedelics Can Help Us Make Sense of the World. He tells his personal story and how his first psychedelic experience felt like a homecoming; discusses his Rebel Wisdom media platform, where, through interviews, he tried to make sense of social upheavals and conflicts through a more flexible, psychedelic way of thinking; and digs deep into the Greek concepts of Moloch and Kairos: how Moloch represents the winner-take-all, race to the bottom, sacrifice-your-values-to-appease-the-system game playing we all get stuck in, and Kairos represents the openness that comes from psychedelics – the transitional, seize-the-moment opportunities we need to take advantage of. And he discusses much more: the power of dialectic inquiry; the corporatization of psychedelics and how we're really in a psychedelic enlightenment; how the medicalization of psychedelics is like a Trojan horse; and the concept of technology (and specifically the internet) mirroring the switching between realms that we think is so rare in psychedelics – aren't we doing that every time we look at our phones?  Beiner was recently part of Imperial College London's initial trials on intravenous, extended-state DMT, testing correct dosages and speeds for the pump. He describes the details of the study, how he thought they were messing with him at first, and what he saw in his experiences: an outer space-like world of gigantic planet-like entities, and how a massive Spider Queen entity taught him about intimacy and how our metaphysical and personal worlds aren't separate at all. Click here to head to the show notes page.

In this episode, Alexa interviews Dom Farnan: Founder of DotConnect; author of the best seller, "Now Here: A Journey from Toxic Boss to Conscious Connector"; and Founder and Chief Consciousness Connector of DoseConnect™, a first-of-its-kind company blending organizational strategy, systems thinking, and talent acquisition in the psychedelic space. Farnan shares her personal journey with psychedelics, discussing her experiences with psilocybin, ayahuasca, and 5-MeO-DMT, and how the last few years of her life have been focused on slowing down and integrating those experiences. She discusses the current state of the psychedelic industry, including downsizing and company closures, but also opportunities from networking, community engagement, and volunteering. She believes that while options may not be clear now, they will be there in the future, and may be jobs we never anticipated. So get to know companies now, and pay close attention with good discernment – not everything is as it appears. She discusses her experiences with mentors and coaches; how psychedelic journeys and integration build onto each other; the importance of journaling; the need for patience as the industry grows; her book and the concept of conscious leadership over toxic leadership; and the beauty of embracing the openness we experience after a psychedelic experience: Can we use what we've learned to reprogram what we're taught about life, invest in ourselves, let go of dissenting and limiting voices, and truly redefine what success (and happiness) means to us? Click here to head to the show notes page.

In this episode, Kyle interviews author of Recapture the Rapture: Rethinking God, Sex and Death In a World That's Lost Its Mind; speaker; and Founder of the Flow Genome Project, which researches and trains on improved human performance. This episode – the last of the many recorded at Psychedelic Science 2023 – may ruffle some feathers, as Wheal is very outspoken and opinionated, focusing on what he spoke about at the conference: the pitfalls of the psychedelic movement. While his outlook is negative, he speaks with humor, and these shadow aspects are issues we need to be talking about: how the nature of capitalism and returning profits to shareholders affects the concept of set and setting; how easy it is to prescribe ketamine and the puppy mill clinics popping up everywhere; how innovators are racing to the bottom to get ahead; the designer drug epidemic likely leading us to a Prozac Nation 2.0; digital narcissism, Instagram "Shamans," and the dangers of cults; chemists trying to take the experience out of the drug; the overuse of psychedelics creating super egos; and much more. While he believes the hype and excitement of the psychedelic renaissance is leading us towards a trough of dissolution and that people aren't turning their amazing experiences into net positives anywhere near enough, he believes that fewer people using psychedelics less often and more intensely – with initiatory practices, intentions, integration, and honest self-reflection – will help us all climb out of our egos and move towards a healthier society. There is hope, but we need to honestly look at all the shadow aspects in order to move towards it. Click here to head to the show notes page.

In this episode, David interviews psychiatrist, main researcher behind the first US Phase II trial of MDMA-assisted psychotherapy, and Senior Medical Director at MAPS Public Benefit Corporation: Dr. Michael Mithoefer; and Research Group Lead at the University of Zurich, and Principal Clinical Biomarker Lead at Boehringer Ingelheim, Katrin Preller, Ph.D. Mithoefer, Preller (and David) are speakers at the upcoming Psychedelic Medicine – Israel, which will now take place July 28 - 31, 2024, in Tel Aviv. They discuss the conference and their current research: Preller's neuroimaging and work with psilocybin for alcohol use disorder, and Mithoefer (likely) being extremely close to seeing the FDA approve MDMA-assisted psychotherapy. He talks about how the therapeutic protocols for MDMA-assisted psychotherapy were created, what it's like to be so close to legalization, and how the next challenges will be accessibility and not minimizing therapy in favor of faster turnover.  They discuss neuroplasticity and whether or not it actually translates into something in humans; the concept of performing brain scans before a psychedelic experience to look for trauma biomarkers (and how this could actually result in savings over time); the excitement of seeing clinical work and neuroscience progressing in parallel; why integration frameworks need to be individualized; and the importance of embracing different therapeutic approaches. Click here to head to the show notes page.

In this episode, Melanie Pincus, Ph.D. and Manesh Girn, Ph.D. once again take over hosting duties, this time interviewing Gül Dölen, MD, Ph.D.: Associate professor of Neuroscience and Neurology at the Johns Hopkins University, School of Medicine, and head of the Dölen lab. Dölen largely researches the neuroscience behind social behaviors and is most known for her work in establishing how psychedelics reopen critical periods of learning, and that the true benefit of psychedelics could be in learning how best to reopen those critical periods, how long they're open for, and which therapeutic frameworks and integration practices could best take advantage of them. Her most recent research was giving MDMA to otherwise very asocial (and violent) octopuses to prove that a drastically different species would exhibit typical MDMA-inspired prosocial behavior. And, after discovering that all the classic psychedelics worked to reopen critical periods – that psychedelics are apparently the master key to opening these periods – she's now researching why, through the PHATHOM project (Psychedelic Healing: Adjunct Therapy Harnessing Opened Malleability). You will likely learn a ton in this episode: why critical periods close as we get older and what may impede them from opening more often; how plasticity and metaplasticity relate to each other and why increased neuroplasticity isn't always a good thing; how the length of different psychedelic experiences relates to efficacy; why the different results of MAPS' and Compass Pathways' studies show the importance of therapy; how autism could be related to critical periods; why repeated psychedelic use may make it harder for one's brain to reset; and how important context is in the ability to reopen critical periods – especially around social learning. Click here to head to the show notes page.

In this episode, Joe interviews Federico Seragnoli: coordinator of the ALPS Foundation, psychologist who works with patients undergoing compassionate use treatments with psychedelics, and Founder of the ALPS Conference. This year, the ALPS Conference (which stands for Awareness Lectures on Psychedelic Science) takes place Oct. 27 – 29 at the Bâtiment des Forces Motrices in Geneva – a prime location for a conference due to Switzerland's legality around psychedelics, where any citizen can apply for psilocybin or LSD therapy if they fall into the category of 'treatment-resistant.' Seragnoli discusses how the conference was originally inspired by an article on the MAPS blog about how to be a psychedelic researcher; and talks about its humble beginnings, its new location, and why it's moved across the country each year. The conference features names like Rick Doblin and Michael Mithoefer, but he's most excited about the smaller size of the event and the panel discussions, which gives attendees a chance to ask questions and hear some real conversations.  He discusses the vibrant field of psychedelic therapy and research in Switzerland; the importance of compassionate use and the criteria physicians need to be able to use it; the impact of students creating psychedelic associations at their universities; and Seragnoli's new research: seeing if there is a link between cognitive science and a conceptualization of science – if you can model consciousness off neuroscience, can you model it off how you feel? Click here to head to the show notes page.

In this episode, Johanna interviews Jungian analyst-in-training, writer, researcher, 5Rhythms® teacher, and Vital graduate: Mackenzie Amara; and Vital instructor, clinical psychologist, and creator of our new course, "Illuminating the Hidden Self: Navigating the Jungian Shadow with Psychedelics": Dr. Ido Cohen. This sequel to their fascinating discussion about shadow work earlier this year focuses on dreams, as Amara, while dreaming that she was having an acid trip and coming to the realization that dreams and LSD may be sending her to the same place, is researching the similarities between the odd worlds of dreams and psychedelic experiences: Is it the same place? Do the dreams we have after psychedelic experiences continue those visions and 'Aha!' moments? Can they answer questions for us (the concept of "sleep on it")? Does dream analysis result in a greater feeling of integration? Can we use the dreams we have before experiences to help guide the experience itself? The conversation goes a lot of places: the many aspects of Jungian psychology; the fluidity of Indigenous perspectives around visible and invisible worlds; how Jung wrote "The Red Book"; the concept of eros and reclaiming our relationship with aliveness; how nature is in constant equilibrium (as are we); how to build a relationship with your dreams; how to work with symbols in dreams; and much more. Ultimately, this episode is about the clash between the conscious and unconscious, the willed and the incidental, and waking life and other realities, and dream analysis and integration work is really tracking vitality in the human psyche: what is alive in us and how does it want to live out in our beings? What makes us come alive? Can our dreams tell us? Click here to head to the show notes page.

In this episode, Joe interviews Louie Schwartzberg: renowned filmmaker known for the award-winning documentary, "Fantastic Fungi"; and now, director of the new film, "Gratitude Revealed." He talks about his path to photography and filmmaking and how psychedelics were a huge inspiration – how his techniques of slowing down, speeding up, and zooming in were ways to capture the invisible aspects of reality – that which is "too slow, too fast, too small, and too vast for the human eye," but is always there. He discusses the premiere of "Fantastic Fungi" and the waves it spread through the psychedelic space; The Louie Channel, his new streaming channel that will feature all his work in 4k and the work of other curated artists and friends; and the clinical trial he's involved in to see if participants have better results in the treatment of their alcohol use disorder by watching his imagery set to music on an 80-inch screen while on psilocybin – research that hopefully leads to the concept of being able to prescribe images and music to people based on specific criteria.  He discusses his new film, "Gratitude Revealed," which explores the power of gratitude: making it a daily practice (and especially a post-psychedelic integration practice), how resilience is one of the best benefits from practicing gratitude, and how easy it is to stop a rumination spiral by simply finding something to be grateful for. He also talks about the blessing of being a photographer and always thinking of beauty; how psychedelics make people more environmentally conscious; tripping with parents; how a shared love of nature could be the bridge between opposing sides; and how the best way to deal with the climate crisis is to start in your own yard.   You can watch "Gratitude Revealed" now, and then, on October 25th, we're hosting a Q+A with Louie Schwartzberg on our Navigators platform. head to psychedelicstoday.com/events for details. Click here to head to the show notes page.

In this episode, Joe interviews Deborah C. Mash, Ph.D.: neuroscientist; Professor Emerita of Neurology and Molecular and Cellular Pharmacology at the University of Miami Miller School of Medicine; and leading researcher in addiction and brain disorders for over 30 years. She is also the CEO and Founder of DemeRx Inc., a clinical stage drug development company working to advance ibogaine and its active metabolite, noribogaine, for the treatment of opioid use disorder. She talks about the Federal and state complications behind ibogaine research, the need for partnerships between clinics and researchers, what needs to be done to collect much needed Phase II and III ibogaine data, and why this all has to be in partnership with the FDA.  And she discusses much more: her story of how studying Cocaethylene led to her finding out about ibogaine; ibogaine and QTc-prolongation; deaths related to iboga and the amount of variables that aren't considered; how the French were essentially using noribogaine in the 1930s; and, as this was recorded at Psychedelic Science 2023, her thoughts on the event and Rick Doblin's opening statement. Click here to head to the show notes page.

In this episode, David interviews Madison Margolin: NY-based, psychedelics and Judaism-focused journalist; host of the Set & Setting podcast; co-founder of DoubleBlind Magazine and the Jewish Psychedelic Summit; and author of the soon-to-be released, Exile & Ecstasy: Growing Up With Ram Dass and Coming of Age in the Jewish Psychedelic Underground. They explore the relationship between Judaism and psychedelics, with Margolin sharing her experiences growing up in a Hindu-Jewish family; her personal journey with her Jewish identity; and how her use of psychedelics has deepened her life. She talks about the significance of Jewish holidays, and how holiday traditions connect them to nature and themselves in a very psychedelic way; the importance of intentionality; the beauty in dancing through an uncomfortable ayahuasca experience; the Jewish Psychedelic Summit; whether or not ancestors were using substances (and does that matter?), and why being in Israel feels so different – and psychedelic.  Margolin is an instructor in our new course, "Navigating Psychedelics: Jewish Informed Perspectives," where she will be leading discussions on setting sacred time and space, particularly focusing on the significance of Shabbat and the energetic frequencies that are at play during certain holidays. The 9-week course begins next week – October 10 – so sign up now!  Click here to head to the show notes page.

In this episode – with the ​2024 edition of Vital​ announced and applications officially open – we're launching another series of Vital Psychedelic Conversations, with David hosting Jasmine Virdi: Vital instructor, writer, educator, and activist who works at Synergetic Press and volunteers for Fireside Project; and Tabata Gerk: Vital student, psychotherapist, and facilitator. As always, they discuss what they think the most vital conversation should be right now, largely expressing concerns over the medicalization of psychedelics and the idea of a 'traumadelic culture,' where psychedelics are often only seen as healers of trauma and not doorways to mysticism and new ideas. And they point out another concern: the romanization of Indigenous culture and not recognizing that these are contemporary cultures that are affected by the same Western, capitalist paradigms that affect us all. They also discuss the concept of epistemic injustice and needing to respect other ways of knowing; hyper-individualism and why we became so reductionist as a society; the role of money (who defines the problem and the solution?); concerns over who decides who is allowed to use these substances; the power of small steps of change; and, through talking about Gerk's recent Amazonian ayahuasca experience, they dig into what it is about these experiences and surrounding communities that make them so special. Could we take some of that and effectively incorporate it into our Western models? Click here to head to the show notes page.

In this episode, Joe interviews Ethan Nadelmann: author, speaker, Founder and former Executive Director of Drug Policy Alliance, host of the PSYCHOACTIVE podcast, and one of the leading voices in drug policy reform and harm reduction.  Nadelmann shares his journey from Princeton University to founding Drug Policy Alliance, to working with George Soros, encouraging Gary Johnson to push cannabis legalization, and interacting with prominent figures like Milton Friedman and Grover Norquist. He explores the motivations behind the drug war, the massive growth of incarcerations it led to, why the US spread its war on drugs abroad even when it went against our best interests, and, thankfully, the progress made in fighting the drug war – particularly with cannabis and psychedelics. And he discusses much more: the banning of drug testing kits; the damages of our slow learning curve against the idea of a safe supply; the risks of under-prescribing opioids for people who actually need them; how libertarians, the right, and left are all starting to become against the drug war for the same reasons; why cigarette smokers should all switch to vaping; the concept of needing to pass a test at the pharmacy to prove you understand (and won't abuse) medication; and some strong arguments for decriminalization as an incremental step. And he asks some pretty important questions that we can all simmer on for a bit: how do we find a balance between helping people and not opening the rest of society up to harm? How do we challenge abuse in a way that doesn't hurt future harm reduction efforts? And how do we incentivize people into acting in their own best interests?  Click here to head to the show notes page.

In this special episode, Melanie Pincus, Ph.D. and Manesh Girn, Ph.D., who joined David in episode 403 to discuss the launch of their new course, essentially interview each other. As the 2nd edition of their popular course, Psychedelic Neuroscience Demystified, begins on November 1, we wanted to give them a chance to highlight some of the aspects of neuroscience students can expect to learn in the course, and what so many people who are interested in psychedelics don't fully understand: What does neuroplasticity actually entail? Can one predict if a patient is more apt to have an experience with ego dissolution? How does the amygdala relate to mood disorders? When are critical periods of greater plasticity and socialization at their most beneficial? How does neuroplasticity relate to chronic stress? They also discuss lessons they've received from their own journeys; why they created the course; serotonin; psychological flexibility; body-based versions of self vs. memory-based versions; psychedelics and re-encoding memories (and the potential for false memories); how psychedelic therapy is different from standard drug treatments; psychedelics and the default mode network (is the story oversimplified?), and much more.  Click here to head to the show notes page.

In this episode, Kyle interviews Rachel Harris, Ph.D.: Psychologist in private practice for over 40 years, researcher who has published more than 40 peer-reviewed studies, and author of the new book, Swimming in the Sacred: Wisdom from the Psychedelic Underground. She talks about graduating college and going straight to Esalen, where she had little concern over therapy or integration, and how, after 20 years of ayahuasca experiences, she learned to see psychedelic-assisted therapy and ceremonial, transformational experiences as very different things. She discusses her ayahuasca journeys; a surprising MDMA experience; what having an ongoing relationship with the spirit of ayahuasca means; Ann Shulgin's concerns over going through death's door while in a journey; what true integration is; how psychedelics can help prepare for death, and more. And she talks about her new book, Swimming in the Sacred, which collects the stories, unique perspectives, and wisdom of 15 female elders who have been working in the underground for at least 15 years each, and how their experience has led to a somatic-based intuition and 'know it in their bones' feeling that so many new practitioners and facilitators need – and can only come with time.  Click here to head to the show notes page.

Last year, Joe attended his first Burning Man, and sadly, we didn't hear much about it. In this episode, recorded just a few days after Joe returned from his second outing of nearly 12 days on the playa, Victoria changes that, asking Joe all the burning questions we all want to know. He talks about preparing for Burning Man and the numerous obstacles he and his partner, Ali, encountered on their very slow journey there; the media's interpretation of the rain and mud vs. the reality of being there in the middle of it all; the bogus reports of an ebola outbreak and disaster zone surrounded by FEMA officials (and was that all a prank by Burners?); the debate over the environmental impact of such a massive event, and more. And he talks about the many joys of Burning Man: how, despite the weather and needing to remain at camp more, the community, abundance, embracing of all that is weird, and passion to share and make the best of it all made this a better year for him in many ways. He learned the importance of patience, avoiding a frantic state, and fighting panic with positive vibes, which was made infinitely more easy with the Big Krab Car: the art car Ali built and they drove around, DJing on all week. Click here to head to the show notes page.

In this episode, Kyle interviews General Stephen Xenakis, MD: an adult, child, and adolescent psychiatrist who retired from the U.S. Army in 1998 at the rank of Brigadier General and began a career starting up medical technology companies and clinical practice to support human rights and new methodologies of healthcare.  In June, he became the new Executive Director of the American Psychedelic Practitioners Association (APPA), whose mission is to bring practitioners together as a community; develop the best training programs and practices; shift to a more patient-centered, integrated model of care; eventually accredit practitioners to practice with legal substances; and overall, help to make these new modalities more mainstream.  He discusses their path to success, which began with their publishing of the first professional practice guidelines for psychedelic-assisted therapy practitioners, and will continue on with ethical guidelines and clinical practice guidelines in the future. And he talks about the idea of a safety net for people who have adverse effects from psychedelic journeys; what clinicians need to know about psychedelics; concerns over accessibility; and the importance of identifying the correct treatments for the correct patients, as each person's path to healing will likely be drastically different. Click here to head to the show notes page.

In this episode, David interviews Dr. JoQueta Handy, Ph.D., IMD: speaker, author, educator, Natural Integrative Health Practitioner, and CEO and Chief Visionary of Brilliant Learning, Handy Wellness Center, and Brilliant Blends. She shares childhood memories of growing up on her Grandparents' farm, where she developed a deep appreciation for nature, staring at the stars, and the beauty in stillness, and how coming back to that stillness has been key in her life and psychedelic journeys. The conversation then shifts to all that she's learned through her work with children on the autism spectrum: the problems of putting people into boxes; how autism affects everyone; the different ways people learn; the connection between autism and the gut microbiome; and how she has learned more from some of these children than any book could teach her – culminating in a story of discovering that a very challenged child people were ready to give up on could actually read and comprehend everything he was hearing. She discusses her favorite adaptogens; the art of stacking adaptogens and different modalities; her multi-day coaching sessions; Internal Family Systems; quantum biofeedback; the use of supplements in microdosing; and Brilliant Blends, which sells blends of supplements designed to provide benefits as close to what psilocybin can provide (but legally) – inspired by the unique needs of autistic individuals. PT listeners can receive 10% off all purchases with code: PT10. Click here to head to the show notes page.

In the first-ever episode of Hyphae Leaks, Mary and Reggie sit down with Joe Moore and share their backgrounds, impetus for launching a psychedelic tell-all podcast, and what listeners can expect from the first season. Want to dig in on some of the topics discussed today? Quick links: Quick stats on biodiversity and Indigenous communities. Excellent reporting on why Indigenous lands protect biodiversity. Why we can't blame the unhoused issue on drug decriminalization. Follow Reggie Harris on Instagram Follow Mary Carreón on Instagram Follow Hyphae Leaks on Instagram Subscribe to the Hyphae Leaks Substack. Catch Season 1 of Hyphae Leaks streaming NOW wherever you get your podcasts. New episodes every third Wednesday until Dec. 20. Rate, review, and subscribe!

In this episode, David interviews the President of the Psychedelic Medicine Association, host of the Psychedelic Medicine Podcast, and Psychedelics Today advisory board member and Vital contributor: Lynn Marie Morski, MD, JD. She shares her journey with psychedelics and how they enabled her to leave a toxic job and pursue her passion for advocacy with vitality, and how important it is to focus your energy where it's best used. She talks about where we find ourselves in the psychedelic space based on Psychedelic Science 2023, as well as her recent TV appearances and the responsibility of preaching to the non-choir. And she discusses the idea of perfectionism in today's age; the need for psychedelic people to be involved in non-psychedelic conferences; the complications behind requiring physicians to experience psychedelics; the concept of it being malpractice for a physician to not mention psychedelic options; and the Psychedelic Medicine Association's upcoming virtual conference: Sana Symposium 2023, which happens October 26-27.  Morski talks a lot about the importance of educating healthcare professionals about psychedelics, debunking myths, and the need for standards in training therapists and primary care providers. She highlights how there is still no nationally-recognized certification for even ketamine providers, so how can people make informed decisions on who to trust? The Psychedelic Medicine Association is taking steps to improve this paradigm, offering a new course called "Managing Medical Risk in Patients Seeking Psilocybin Therapy," which will work to help clinicians make risk assessments for patients seeking psilocybin therapy – something that is not really being done today.  Click here to head to the show notes page.

In this episode, Alexa interviews Chase Hudson: Founder of HempLucid, a premium CBD wellness brand. Hudson discusses his journey from being a firefighter to becoming involved in the cannabis and hemp industry, the origins of HempLucid, the restrictions they faced, and their current genetics and flagship water soluble tincture. He talks about the benefits of CBD and cannabis used in conjunction with psychedelic therapy - especially ketamine-assisted therapy, which he gives to his employees as a benefit. And he talks about Lamar Odom and the documentary he executive produced, "Lamar Odom Reborn," which chronicles how Odom came back from rock bottom through high dose CBD, iboga, and ketamine therapy. He also discusses the idea of cannabis as a gateway drug to healing; the need for insurance to cover psychedelic therapy; the changing landscape of Utah from religious ideology to psychedelics; ketamine as the bridge between old and new models of healthcare, and more. And they talk about their own journeys a lot, with Hudson telling the story of his powerful and life-changing ibogaine treatment, and Alexa sharing stories from her tragic car accident and recovery, as well as the ketamine sessions she recently began. The conversation ultimately becomes one about the need for education and conversation to help us all climb out from decades of drug war propaganda.  Click here to head to the show notes page.

In this episode, David interviews East Forest: Portland, OR-based producer, podcaster, ceremony guide, and musician, specializing in ambient, electronic, contemporary classical, and indie pop music largely to guide listeners through deep journeys.   Forest discusses his live performances and influences; how his music pairs with journeys and specific psychedelics; the difference in the connection and vibe from a live performance vs. a recording; the difference between single-artist music created specifically for sessions vs. Spotify playlists; the inhumanity of generative music; his Journey Space online music and journey platform; and the challenges of making money in a time when music is more prevalent than ever, but also more in-the-background and diluted.  He talks a lot about sound itself: the role of rhythm and sound in communication and personal transformation; how richer overtones and increased layers of sound increase effects; research into very low pulsating tones, and how more synthesized sound and the growth of AI has created a yearning for more authentic, imperfect sounds.   His newest album was just released August 18: "Music For The Deck of The Titanic," an homage to the musicians who spent their last few hours playing songs for passengers amidst the chaos and tragedy – an album Forest sees as an offering to the chaotic moment we're all in. Click here to head to the show notes page.

In this episode, Joe interviews Satya Thallam: Policy Advisor at the international law firm, Arnold & Porter; and longtime policy expert based in Washington, D.C. who previously served in senior roles at both the White House and the U.S. Senate. Thallam was the lead author and negotiator of the Federal Right to Try Act, which grants terminally ill patients access to experimental therapies and substances that have completed Phase I testing but have not yet been approved by the FDA. He discusses its intricacies and benefits, how psychedelics were not a focus but were always obvious, whether or not it allows people to grow their own mushrooms, and more. He talks abut the implementation of the first Federal legalization of hemp under the Farm Bill in 2018, breaking down the history and detail of how it came to be, and why a difference of .3% in weight truly matters when establishing law. He discusses the changing landscape of politicians and psychedelics; how local action creates a culture of inspiring Washington; the internal fight between different agencies and the endless lobbying it takes to get things done; how one needs to cater their argument by who is listening; risk assessment and judgment-proof operations; the concern over whether or not we got everything wrong with cannabis; and why we will likely begin seeing a lot of coalitions popping up in the psychedelic space. Click here to head to the show notes page.

In this episode, Kyle interviews Lisa Wessing: Clinical Psychologist and facilitator specializing in harm reduction at Kiyumí retreats in The Netherlands.  Wessing shares her personal journey and the shift from being uninspired with studying psychology to being a part of space-holding in Mexico and finding her true path. She dives into the world of Kiyumí retreats, discussing their holistic healing approach using psilocybin, somatic movement, dance expression, and other methods supporting their four pillars of embodiment, nature, mindfulness, and art. She discusses their more long-term program with Dr. Gabor Maté integrating his Compassionate Inquiry framework; their Equity Program, which offers partial or full funding for people who may not have the financial resources or who come from marginalized communities (e.g. BIPOC & Queer); and the importance of integration as a continuous process and checking in with people much later to build their "Kiyumíty." Much of this discussion covers the challenges of somatic psychology and facilitation in group containers: how most people are somatically illiterate and the journey of becoming more somatic; what to do about someone laughing or singing in a group context; what moving into one's body really means; and different ways of using art to integrate an experience. As part of our Vital program, we are running a psilocybin retreat with Kiyumí from September 6-11, and we have some available spots left! If you like what you hear, you'll be in The Netherlands in September, and want to have an amazing experience with us, click here for more info! Click here to head to the show notes page.

In this episode, recorded in-person at Psychedelic Science 2023, Kyle interviews Senator for the Mexican Green Party, Alejandra Lagunes. Lagunes is the first Senator in Mexico to promote the use of psychedelics, and has been organizing open parliaments to foster collaboration between researchers, scientists, politicians, and Indigenous people, culminating in a groundbreaking decriminalization initiative to decriminalize psilocybin and psilocin from list 1 to list 3 (meaning they could be prescribed), create a new chapter for entheogens (and move mushrooms there), build an economically beneficial framework for Indigenous people, protect ancestor knowledge by law, and make big bioconservation moves with changes to environmental laws.  She discusses her personal journey with depression, anxiety, and a life-saving ayahuasca journey; how Covid uncovered a crisis in meaning and an openness to talk about mental health; the need for accessibility and safety in psychedelics against challenges in politics and policy implementation; our mental health crisis and the need for innovation, education, and overcoming stigma; the influence of US drug control policies on international regulations; the power of storytelling; and why we need to go back to our origins. Click here to head to the show notes page.

In this episode, Joe interviews Stéphane Lasme, a former professional basketball player from Gabon who is now a partner at SteddeCapital, a private markets investment platform investing long-term capital into U.S.- and Africa-based opportunities across sports ownership, infrastructure, technology and plant medicine. Lasme speaks of his childhood, growing up in Gabon with more traditional Catholic values while journeying deep into the jungle to visit his Grandmother every summer. It was there that he embraced the cultural aspect of Gabon and community, and first learned of iboga, which he had a profound experience with at age 12, and would later revisit in his basketball days. He discusses the drive and passion that led him to become the first person from Gabon to play in the NBA, and the subsequent pressure, stress, cultural differences, and "ok, what now?" moments that came at the end. He talks about Gabonese traditions; how iboga improved his stress relief and mental focus; how embracing yoga and Buddhist methods of self-discovery improved his life; scientific reductionism vs. the magic of mystery and trying to define an experience; and more.  While Gabon allows for the export of iboga, Lasme's goal is to build a lab and treatment center in Gabon and share the power of Gabonese culture with people – so they can experience the medicine in its own country, with its traditional rituals and music. He has begun the fundraising process, and through his investment and facilitation work, is working to get African athletes to invest back into Africa and make Gabon a major destination for iboga. Click here to head to the show notes page.

In this episode, Kyle interviews The Susan Hill Ward Endowed Professor of Psychedelics and Consciousness Research at Johns Hopkins, and renowned researcher of nearly 20 years: Matthew W. Johnson, Ph.D. Recorded in-person at MAPS' Psychedelic Science after running an 8-hour workshop on psychedelic therapy for addiction treatment, Johnson was still happy to sit down with PT to explore a wide range of topics: the under-researched concept of integration; how to best take advantage of optimal neuroplastic windows; why psycholytic therapy used to be more common; how our current protocols and research models are largely arbitrary; and his hopes for new, experimental, and flexible models of psychedelic therapy. He also discusses his ongoing smoking cessation studies; the Oregon model (are we doing therapy or not?); misrepresentation in psychedelic therapy and knowing your lane; and the role of music in psychedelics: why shouldn't people pick the music they know will give them goosebumps? Click here to head to the show notes page.

In this episode, Joe interviews Maya Albert: Co-Founder of the Psyched conference, and Director of Operations at Tabula Rasa Ventures and the Synthesis Institute. She shares her journey of how she became involved in the psychedelic space through her mother, and her personal experience as a patient in a clinical trial on psilocybin for the treatment of anorexia – a much more common and deadly affliction than most people realize. She discusses her involvement with the various psychedelic gatherings surrounding Davos and the World Economic Forum, as well as the work she's doing with Tabula Rasa and some of their clients seeking to expand insurance coverage to psychedelic-assisted therapy.  She discusses the Synthesis Institute's recent struggles that shook up the psychedelic space, what they're doing to save the company, how Retreat Guru has helped them, and the implications for the wider psychedelic movement. And she talks about much more: the legality and vetting process for training in Oregon and Colorado; truffles in the Netherlands vs. classic psilocybin; the idea of alcohol as poison and 'Cali sober,' and how can we all be more collaborative and not sling mud at each other? Click here to head to the show notes page.

In this episode, Kyle interviews the Founder and CEO of FreshCap Mushrooms and host of The Mushroom Show on YouTube, Tony Shields. He talks about how an early interest in lucid dreaming sent him down a psychedelic path, and how, as his interest in mushrooms has grown, he's watched the culture shift from a narrative of mycophobia to one of appreciation and interest. With FreshCap Mushrooms and The Mushroom Show, he aims to provide much needed education around this vast and mysterious world of fungi. He talks about the thriving psilocybin scene in Jamaica, and how, through filming a documentary there, he learned how much communities still don't know about mushrooms, how much tourism supports the country, and how much of a special vibe Jamaica has for psilocybin retreats. And he discusses much more: why lion's mane should help with concussions and TBIs; indications mushrooms could heal, from long Covid to paralysis; concerns over over-medicalization; why Terence McKennas' ideas weren't as crazy as many thought; visiting mushroom shops in Canada; the secret language of mushrooms; where psychedelic people can start to learn about functional mushrooms; and why, if he could embody any mushroom, it'd be cordyceps. Click here to head to the show notes page.

In this episode, recorded on the eve of MAPS' Psychedelic Science 2023, Kyle interviews MAPS' Founder and President, Rick Doblin, Ph.D. He begins with an overview of the fast-approaching (and largest ever) psychedelics conference, emphasizing its significant growth, many features, and bipartisan opening ceremony, then discusses MAPS' soon-to-be-released confirmatory Phase III data on MDMA-assisted therapy for PTSD, which should set the stage for legal MDMA and the increasing need for trained psychedelic therapists.  As the FDA is requiring studies on adolescents, he discusses this sensitive issue and questions why it's so controversial, since teenage years are often closer to both trauma and a more malleable brain, Indigenous traditions certainly didn't have age limits, and honest drug education – something that is absolutely necessary to fight the backlash against this quickly growing field – teaches us that it's not the substance; it's our relationship to it. Could not having these rites of passage be hurting us? He also discusses the natural vs. synthetic conflict; breathwork; whether or not cannabis is truly damaging to young minds; Federal rescheduling vs. state rescheduling; why it's controversial to give therapists MDMA in training; Gul Dolen's work with reopening critical periods; psychedelics in couples therapy; and much more. Click here to head to the show notes page.

In this episode, Joe interviews Sarko Gergerian, MS, MHC, CARC: a police peer support, community outreach, and health-fitness officer; founding member of the Community and Law Enforcement Assisted Recovery Program (C.L.E.A.R.); and psychotherapist trained in ketamine- and MDMA-assisted psychotherapy. Any regular listener of the show should be familiar with how passionately Joe is against the drug war and the resulting policing of what many of us feel should be legal, so this in-person conversation with a police officer who seems to mostly be on our side is pretty refreshing to hear.  Gergerian discusses his entry into the force in his 30s, and what it was like to bring in a healthy "why is this illegal?" viewpoint on drug use and personal agency vs. the slow moving attitudes he saw in much of law enforcement. He talks about how working nightclub security taught him about safe spaces; the problems with officers not proactively moving on actionable information and building relationships with communities; and the very philosophy behind law enforcement: what do they hope to accomplish, do they want to make real change, and do they believe in the laws they're enforcing?  And they discuss so much more: the need for diversity, cultural competency, and broadness in perspective; the criminalization of self-directed behavior; the effect critical incidents have on officers; drug war paranoia, legitimate concerns over hotlines and sensitive data, and psychedelic culture's relationships with police; creating a culture of harm reduction within law enforcement, and what it might look like for police officers to receive psychedelic therapy. Click here to head to the show notes page.

In this episode, Joe interviews one of the world's leading experts on human performance: New York Times bestselling author and Executive Director of the Flow Research Collective, Steven Kotler. Kotler's work explores the neurobiology of peak human performance, flow states, and aging, and the concept of getting our biology to work for us rather than against us in our later years, by using the parts of our brains that expand in our 50s, combined with neuroplasticity, learning by play, and the biggest factor: working toward a very difficult - but not impossible - task. His 30-year exploration of the neurobiology behind people accomplishing 'impossible' feats led him to test his theories by teaching himself to park ski at 53 with resounding success, then using his protocol with people up to 70 years old the next season. The story is told in his newest book about challenging tired concepts of aging, "Gnar Country."  He discusses the power of flow states and how much flow actually amplifies productivity, motivation, wisdom, empathy, and more; why dynamic motion is a key activity for greater longevity and why skiing and similar action sports are some of the best examples; why dynamic activity in novel environments is even better; why changing one's mindset may be the biggest factor toward change; why corporations are looking at flow training and where these concepts could go in the future; and of course, how this all relates to psychedelics.  Click here to head to the show notes page!

In this episode, David interviews Dr. Gabrielle Lehigh: Co-Founder and Managing Director of Psychedelic Grad, a web-based community serving as an educational and career hub for up-and-coming psychedelic professionals; and the host of the related podcast, "Curious to Serious," where she speaks with students and professionals about the path they took to land in the psychedelic field.  Lehigh recently earned her Ph.D. with research on something not many are looking at: the stories behind powerful and transformative psychedelic experiences specifically at music events, based on 38 interviews and over 500 surveys mostly collected at day-long festivals in the southern United States. While the goal was largely data collection in support of the clear potential for therapeutic benefit in using psychedelics in recreational settings (as many of us who have experienced this can attest), she was surprised to learn how many people still blindly trust dealers; how much festival security can affect safety; how the community often makes more of a difference than the music itself; and how many parallels exist between colder clinical models of psychedelic-assisted therapy and the completely open festival experience.  She discusses how she found her way from environmental justice to psychedelics; what people are most looking for on Psychedelic Grad; why she chose to use the word "transformative" in her research; what music she has had her best experiences with; why psychonauts shouldn't forget about Pink Floyd; and much more. Click here to head to the show notes page!

In this episode, Kyle interviews the Reverend Dr. Brian Rajcok, Lead Pastor at St. Matthew Lutheran Church in Avon, Connecticut, who recently completed his Ph.D. in pastoral counseling. Rajcok dives into the intersection of spirituality, religion, mysticism, and how psychedelics bring these topics together, discussing a transformative peyote ceremony and the awe-inspiring moments of surrender, connection, and divine presence that left a lasting impact on him and deepened his connection to God. And he talks about his recently completed dissertation that was inspired by it all: "The Lived Experience of Professional Mental Health Clinicians With Spiritually Significant Psychedelic Experiences," which he created to gauge the relationship between religious spiritual commitment, tolerance, and multicultural counselor competency. He shares stories from the study and reflections on how these experiences have changed the way involved clinicians work.  And he discusses much more in the realm of psychedelics and religion: why he pursued pastoral counseling and how psychedelics come into play; the balance between tradition and reason and spiritual commitment and tolerance; the legal and regulatory considerations of religious psychedelic use; the concept of a faith quadrilateral; the need for psychedelic experiences in counseling training programs; the big question of 'when is it religion and when is it mental health care?'; and how the future of psychedelic spirituality could be humanity's biggest evolution. Click here to head to the show notes page.

In this episode, David interviews Dr. Rosalind Watts: famed clinical psychologist, former clinical lead on Imperial College London's first Psilocybin for Depression trial, and Founder of ACER Integration.  She discusses the awakening she had after having a child; her work at Imperial College and realizing the importance of staying in touch with patients; the challenges of balancing her work with being a mother; her ACER integration model and the interconnectedness of trees in a forest; how the Watts Connectedness Scale works (and David fills it out); and how much the outside-the-hype surrounding pieces matter – the therapy, the therapeutic relationship, the lessons learned, and the work done to integrate it all.  And she talks about another moment of awakening, at last year's Psych Summit conference, where capitalism's obsession with profit-over-care frameworks and "magic bullet" and "brain reset" narratives was on full display, which fully enforced what she hopes for in the future: a world where we embrace non-clinical, ceremonial, and nature-based practices; with healing centers (psychedelic and non); supportive communities; infrastructure around conflict resolution and restorative justice; and a shift towards collectivism and collaboration – and how that all starts by finding our psychedelic elders.  Click here to head to the show notes page!

In this episode, Joe interviews Oliver Carlin, Founder of Curative Mushrooms, a grow kit solution company designed to produce mushrooms of one's choosing within 30 days with little effort and no growing experience.  Carlin tells his personal story of 20 years in the Navy to a 7g psilocybin journey and the work of perfecting these grow bags; how a grow bag works; how easy it can be to grow your own mushrooms; the advantages of growing your own mushrooms vs. buying them; the legalities of grow kits and how he has been able to do this; steps growers can take to reduce their legal risks; the variety of people benefitting from mushrooms (especially in the veteran community); and how growing your own mushrooms seems to make the experience more curated and special. Curative Mushrooms recently hired someone to create new strains for them every month, they do bimonthly live Q&As for people interested in growing, and they ship a bonus mycology book with each kit that shows how to study spores. They offer growing kits for Lion's Mane, Turkey Tail, and Shiitake mushrooms, but his most popular option is the "All-in-One Happy Mushrooms for Sad People" kit. Click here to go to the show notes page.

In this episode, David interviews Dr. Roberta Murphy: member of the Imperial Centre for Psychedelic Research and training medical psychotherapist. This is a rare impromptu podcast, recorded about a half hour after David heard Murphy speaking on a panel at UK's Breaking Convention conference. He asked her if she wanted to be on the podcast sometime, and before they knew it, they were recording. Fastest turnaround ever? She discusses her past research and what she's doing at Imperial College; her work on a psilocybin for depression trial; a psilocybin versus Escitalopram trial; her hopes for psychedelics treating people with Parkinson's; and her recent co-written paper on the ARC Framework (Access, Reciprocity and Conduct), where she will be focusing strongly on the Conduct aspect through her work at Imperial.  She mostly talks about her other recent paper exploring the impact of one of the more important aspects of therapy: the therapeutic alliance on the psychedelic experience. How does the treatment dynamic between the therapist and the client impact the outcome (and course) of the therapy, and what determines whether it's neutral, negative, positive, or very positive? Click here to head to the show notes page.

In this episode, Alexa interviews Rachel Clark: Education Manager for DanceSafe, a public health nonprofit specializing in serving people who use drugs and their communities. As we move into the prime festival season, more people are going to be doing drugs, and the importance of harm reduction and drug testing becomes even more central to the experience. She discusses the complications of drug testing and how it's more of an act of ruling substances out rather than determining purity; the fentanyl problem and its surrounding myths; how to identify and treat an overdose (and what not to do); Philadelphia's struggles with Xylazine highlighting the problem with regional cross contamination; and DanceSafe's "We Love Consent" and "Healing is Power" campaigns, which aim to open up the dialogue of true harm reduction and safe spaces outside of the substance alone. Check out DanceSafe.org for more info, and use this link when you're ready to make a purchase! psychedelicstoday.com

In this episode of Psychedelics Weekly, Joe and Alexa reminisce about last week's Psychedelic Science 2023, dubbed as the largest psychedelic conference in history.  They discuss Joe's two Psychedelic Morning Shows with Anne Philippi; Court Wing, Bob Wold, and the work of Clusterbusters and the new Psychedelics and Pain Association; Aaron Rogers and athletes' growing interest in psychedelics; the legality of mushroom growing kits; and the overall fun and overwhelming atmosphere of such a massive event. And as Alexa had her first breathwork session with the East Institute, they dig more into breathwork, which serves as somewhat of a follow-up to our breathwork episode a few weeks ago.   They also talk about a short film they came across called "Open Up," which looks at the party lifestyle of always seeking a new high, the potential of ketamine abuse, and what can happen when people don't talk about their problems. https://psychedelicstoday.com/2023/06/30/psychedelics-weekly-a-recap-of-psychedelic-science-2023/

In this episode, David interviews Professor Celia Morgan, Ph.D., who holds the Chair of Psychopharmacology and co-leads the Transdisciplinary Psychedelics Group at The University of Exeter. This was recorded on the dawn of UK's Breaking Convention conference, where Morgan was speaking about the therapeutic potential of ketamine as well as the danger of people developing a dependence on it. She touches on that topic, but largely discusses her current Phase III Trial for ketamine-assisted therapy for the treatment of severe alcohol use disorder (also called the KARE model (Ketamine for reduction of Alcohol Relapse)), a collaboration with Awakn Life Sciences. She discusses her other research: studies on mindfulness intervention before and after ketamine, epigenetic changes after ayahuasca use, the antidepressant qualities of ayahuasca, and CBD for cannabis dependence. And she talks about the necessary balance for making treatments amazing but affordable; how connecting with nature during integration is key; how the drug is just a tool, yet we focus on it too much; and how we need studies on how different therapies work with different substances. www.psychedelicstoday.com

In the second episode of our special, two-part series, the Psychedelic Morning Show, Joe Moore and Anne Philippi are live once again bright and early from Psychedelic Science 2023 in Denver. Listen to this podcast as they interview four guests working on the front lines of psychedelic research, law, and the treatment of chronic pain.  Guests for this episode include:  Tommaso Barba – PhD candidate at Centre for Psychedelic Research, Imperial College London Allison Hoots – Attorney at Hoots Law Practice and advocate; President of Sacred Plant Alliance Bob Wold - Founder & President, Clusterbusters Court Wing – Founder, REMAP Therapeutics  psychedelicstoday.com

Psychedelics Today is reporting live this week from the industry event of the year, Psychedelic Science 2023 in Denver. Listen in to this podcast as our co-founder, Joe Moore, and New Health Club founder Anne Philippi hit the conference floor bright and early in the first episode of a special two-part series, the Psychedelic Morning Show. In this limited series, Joe and Anne chat in real-time with guests working in all corners of the psychedelic ecosystem, from advocacy, law and finance, to research and therapy.  Guests for this episode include:  Dr. Julie Holland – Psychiatrist, psychedelic researcher, author and medical advisor for MAPS Daniel Goldberg – Co-Founder and Principal at Bridge Investments & Palo Santo Hadas Alterman – Director of Government Affairs | American Psychedelic Practitioners Association Melissa Lavasani – Founder and Chief Executive Officer at Psychedelic Medicine Coalition, Founder and President of Psychedelic Medicine PAC Tracey Tee – Founder of Moms on Mushrooms psychedelicstoday.com

In this episode, David interviews Frederick Barrett, Ph.D.: cognitive neuroscientist, Associate Professor of Psychiatry and Behavioral Sciences at Johns Hopkins University School of Medicine, and now, Director of the Johns Hopkins Center for Psychedelic & Consciousness Research. With today's news, Barrett officially takes over for the legendary Roland Griffiths, who has been in the role since the Center's launch in 2019, and who will continue on as a member of the leadership team while dealing with the Stage 4 cancer diagnosis he has been remarkably candid about in recent interviews.  Dr. Barrett has been conducting research at Johns Hopkins for a decade, authoring or co-authoring some of the first studies on psilocybin's enduring effects, and receiving the first federally funded human psychedelic research grant from the NIH since the 70s. He discusses the work and importance of Roland Griffiths; the history of the Center and current research he's most excited about; the mystery of consciousness; and the power and sacredness of music: how we all use music to regulate our emotions, and how he wants to explore the brain mechanisms behind that connection. www.psychedelicstoday.com

In this edition of Psychedelics Weekly, Joe and Kyle dedicate the entire episode to one of their biggest passions: breathwork and the power of breath in reaching non-ordinary states of consciousness. What many listeners may not know is that Psychedelics Today was created because of the lack of attention being paid to breathwork, transpersonal psychology, and the work of Stanislav Grof, so this episode serves as a deep dive into all the facets of our fascinating ability to reach psychedelic states simply by breathing in specific ways. They discuss the history of breathwork; the various methods (box breathing, alternate nostril breathing, rebirthing breathwork, the Wim Hof method, Holotropic and Transpersonal breathwork, etc.); early and most powerful experiences; why Joe recommends becoming familiar with breathwork before a first psychedelic experience; how a breathwork practice can help enhance psychedelic experiences; and one of the most amazing things about breathwork: that it can give people a sense of agency they may never have felt before – that they can produce these experiences and insights with nothing but their own bodies. If you've been curious about breathwork, this episode is a great starting point to learn more.  www.psychedelicstoday.com

In this episode, Kyle interviews Liana Gillooly: Strategic Initiatives Officer at MAPS, Board Chair & Founder of the non-profit, North Star, and Advisor to Chacruna's Indigenous Reciprocity Initiative. While she talks about updates in MAPS' world and how to manage and scale a rapidly growing industry while trying to change a system from the inside, she mostly talks about what she, the rest of MAPS, and a lot of the psychedelic space in general are most excited about right now: Psychedelic Science 2023, the largest psychedelic conference in history, beginning next week in Denver.  She discusses the growth of the conference; why they chose Denver as a location; and how programming has changed over the years to embrace the multiplicity of identities inside the psychedelic space, including much more business content, a culture stage that focuses on how psychedelics interact with the mainstream, various programs put on by community partners, pre- and post- workshops covering an array of topics, and an area they're calling Deep Space, which was designed to help attendees get out of their heads and more into their bodies.  If you were thinking of attending, this episode should serve as a great inspiration to finally buy a ticket. When you do, be sure to use code PT15 to get 15% off your purchase, and when you're there, visit us at booth 834 Wednesday through Friday. Joe is hosting a Psychedelic Morning Show with Anne Philippi on Thursday and Friday, and we're partnering with Lounge CashoM, an all-inclusive environment designed to be a decompression space from that big conference energy. Email hello@cashom.org for more info, and head to the show notes page for more details about afterparties. www.psychedelicstoday.com

In this episode, David interviews Alex Belser, Ph.D.: clinical scientist; author; licensed psychologist; Co-Investigator for a psilocybin and OCD study at Yale University; and co-creator of the EMBARK approach, a new model of psychedelic-assisted therapy that focuses on six clinical domains that typically arise during psychedelic experiences. He is also one of the editors of "Queering Psychedelics: From Oppression to Liberation in Psychedelic Medicine," the new anthology from Chacruna featuring 38 essays from queer authors and allies looking at the heteronormative aspects of psychedelic culture and psychedelic-assisted psychotherapy, self-acceptance, psychedelics and pleasure, and ways the queer community can become allies with other groups. As they serendipitously recorded this episode on June 1, it only made sense to celebrate Pride Month by releasing it now, as well as launching a giveaway, where you can win one of five copies of "Queering Psychedelics."  Belser talks about the concurrent emergence of the psychedelic and queer communities; the need to research the effects of transphobia and homophobia in psychedelic work (as well as the internalized phobias often realized during an experience); why it's more important than ever to talk about the psychedelic space's dark past with conversion therapy; why the Mystical Experiences Questionnaire needs to be updated; the idea of queer people being boundary walkers; recreating the Good Friday Experiment, the immense importance of long-form interviews and other forms of qualitative research, the power of love and community, and the question: how does anyone not want to change after a powerful psychedelic experience? www.psychedelicstoday.com

In this episode of Psychedelics Weekly, Joe and Kyle are once again able to take advantage of Kyle's temporary Colorado residency and record together in Joe's office. While last week focused on the numerous challenges facing a rapidly growing industry of psychedelic therapists, facilitators, and guides, the topic of therapy itself is put under the microscope this week, as they dissect a New York Times article titled, "Does Therapy Really Work? Let's Unpack That." They discuss whether or not therapy is right for everyone, the efficacy of different types of therapy, the role of the therapeutic alliance in treatment outcomes, and how (if it's even possible) to measure all of these factors. They also discuss: -a study showing that ketamine was more effective than ECT (electroconvulsive therapy) for patients with treatment-resistant depression; -the potential benefits of the LSD analog, Br-LSD, in treating people with major depressive disorders, cluster headaches, and more; -Ireland's Health Service Executive launching the Safer Nightlife program, which will partner with music festivals this summer to establish on-site drug testing; -the U.S. slowly beginning to legalize fentanyl test strips, which, for some reason, are illegal in many parts of the country; And much more! See you next week, and if you're in the NYC area, make sure to check out "Tales of Transformation," an in-person event Thursday, June 8 at the Athenæum, moderated by David, and featuring Ifetayo Harvey, Juliana Mulligan, and Raad Seraj. www.psychedelicstoday.com

In this episode, Joe interviews the Co-Founders of Enosis Therapeutics: researcher and scientist, Agnieszka Sekula; and psychiatrist, clinical advisor to the Australian Psychedelic Society, and leading Australian advocate for psychedelic-assisted psychotherapy, Dr. Prash P.  Enosis Therapeutics is a medtech startup that began with the question: how can we use VR – with or without psychedelics – to improve mental health outcomes? They feel that the biggest problem with powerful psychedelic experiences is that, once you're back in reality, it's oddly difficult to remember the insights and new ideas that were so clear during the experience, and even harder to make connections that lead to concrete change. They believe that the immersive nature of VR and the novelty of unique VR environments creates a sense of presence that can't be recreated otherwise – a liminal, in-between state that's just different enough to allow the patient to feel like they're back in that non-ordinary state, and therefore more able to anchor their experience and begin to find connections and more clearly understand newfound insights.  This all happens by the user essentially creating nonlinear, abstract, multi-sensory VR paintings while describing what they remembered; allowing them to revisit these worlds later, bring in therapists (or anyone else) to work inside these environments, and hear their own voice describing what happened, thereby creating a mental map that can be worked with in completely unique ways.  They talk about the conflict between new technologies and traditionalists; the problems with moving away from psychoanalysis and not treating psychotherapy as a process; how VR could improve the efficacy of therapy (and improve therapists' lives); how it could replace models of repeated dosage; how VR could generate analytics to actually quantify success in mental health treatment; and how (whether psychedelics are used or not) culture needs to bring the psychedelic way of thinking to mental health. www.psychedelicstoday.com

In this episode of Psychedelics Weekly, Kyle and David meet up to talk news, but end up mostly having a discussion about the numerous challenges facing the rapidly growing industry of psychedelic therapists, guides, and facilitators. That discussion comes from the article, "Psychedelic workers of the world, unite!", which breaks down the shortcomings and risks of an industry many are flocking to without realizing what they'll likely have to deal with: unprecedented legal and financial risks, burnout, misalignment with management, transference and countertransference, and what happens when one finds themselves in the middle of a genuine emergency? While these issues could be found in any industry, a big reason why they seem so prevalent and dangerous in the psychedelic world is our lack of elders and passed-down experience – and the faster this all grows, the more we need that guidance.  And for news, they talk about Ohio State making history as the first U.S. University to receive a license to grow psilocybin mushrooms; a new study showing that LSD enhanced learning, exploratory thinking, and sensitivity to feedback; and the National Institute on Drug Abuse (NIDA) funding $1.5 million to research the efficacy of psychedelics for substance use disorder – which spurs a conversation about research, funding, and the idea that maybe we're spending too much time and money on neuroscience. www.psychedelicstoday.com

In this episode, Joe interviews Priyanka Wali, MD: board-certified practicing physician in Internal Medicine, MAPS-trained psychedelic facilitator, comedian, and co-host (with Sean Hayes of "Will & Grace" fame) of the HypochondriActor podcast, where they discuss interesting medical issues in a funny (and hopefully uplifting) way.  She talks about recognizing and protecting the humanity of healthcare professionals, and how medical school is creating a cycle of hurt people trying to help other hurt people. She believes we need to become more holistic, especially in embracing Indigenous ways of thinking, as their frameworks may be the only way to explain phenomena with which Western science can't come to terms.   They talk a lot about ancient psychedelic use: the use of a soma described in the Rigveda; Egyptian culture and mushrooms observed in statues; Plato; the work of Brian Muraresku and Graham Hancock; and Vedic chants, Kashmiri Bhajans, and how singing (especially in a group) can be especially healing to the nervous system. And as Wali experienced first-hand the Kashmiri Pandit genocide of 1990, she discusses how much colonialism has changed cultures, and how much our cycles of oppression relate to our collective inability to experience pain and fear.   They discuss the psychological impact of living through major catastrophes; the special and hard-to-describe feeling of returning to your home (especially in a world changed by colonization and constant conflict); the sad case of Ignaz Semmelweis and hand washing; ghosts of Japan's 2011 tsunami, the concept of 'future primitive,' and more. www.psychedelicstoday.com

In this episode of Psychedelics Weekly, Joe and Kyle are both on the road, so David and Alexa take the helm. They cover news stories about:  -a man in Colorado facing a Class 3 drug felony for giving people psilocybin mushrooms in exchange for monetary donations – pointing out the bold (or stupid?) stances some are taking to highlight the absurdity of legislation that allows possession and donation as long as no money changes hands;  -a study showing what many of us have felt ourselves: that the day after psilocybin-assisted therapy, depressed patients had a stronger brain response to music and saw improvements in the ability to find pleasure in previously empty activities;  -a trip report from a psychedelically-naive 50-year old, showing the power and beauty of MDMA-assisted therapy;  -the New Hampshire state Senate continuing to be behind the times and voting down House Bill 639, which would have created a legal recreational cannabis framework for the state; -a video where people on the street in Oregon were asked how much they thought psilocybin therapy would cost, showing a drastic misalignment between public perception and reality; and a local TV news feature touring Rose City Laboratories, the first licensed psilocybin testing lab in Oregon. And in conversation, they talk about some of the lesser-discussed (and often dismissed) tools like CBD, THC patches, and very low-dose edibles; the problem with drug dealers and harm reduction; the power of music in guiding a psychedelic experience (and in living a pleasurable life); and the importance of dosing and listening to your body to know what's right for you. www.psychedelicstoday.com

In this episode, Joe interviews Nick Kadysh: Founder and CEO of PharmAla Biotech and member of the board of directors for The Canadian Psychedelic Businesses Association.  PharmAla Biotech is a Toronto-based Life Sciences company with two focuses: contracting with manufacturers to provide researchers with GMP MDMA (created under Good Manufacturing Practice regulations), and creating and researching novel analogs of MDMA. And just today, they announced that Health Canada has authorized them (and their distribution partner, Shaman Pharma) to supply their LaNeo™ MDMA for the treatment of a patient under Canada's Special Access Program – the first time this has happened in Canada.  He discusses the creation of PharmAla and why their model changed from primarily researching analogs to manufacturing; why they're operating out of Canada and using manufacturers instead of running the lab themselves; the excitement around Australia's recent about-face on MDMA and psilocybin-assisted therapy; the bureaucracy of U.S. drug policy and how much a broken supply chain affects the whole industry; bad IP and companies filing rapid fire patents; why creating new analogs of MDMA is so important; and why the psychedelic space needs to bring culture along with us. He also talks about Spravato, cannabis and risks of cancer, THC nasal sprays, and research he's most excited about: that MDMA seems to alleviate dyskinesia caused from Parkinson's disease, and that MDMA could improve social anxiety in people with autism. He's aiming to run a clinical trial and believes they have developed a safe MDMA analog that the autistic community will respond to very well. www.psychedelicstoday.com

In this episode of Psychedelics Weekly, Joe and temporary-Colorado-resident Kyle once again record in-person, discussing how psychedelics could change business, the drug war and safe supply, and more.  They cover:  -a Rolling Stone profile on David Bronner, who makes the case for multi-stakeholder capitalism; where businesses are accountable to their workers, customers, the environment, and surrounding Indigenous communities instead of just investors – an idea more people would likely align with after a psychedelic experience;  -The first psilocybin service center in Oregon (EPIC Healing Eugene) finally receiving their license via the Oregon Health Authority; -A man who saw his color blindness improve for four months after a 5g mushroom experience; -Delaware officially legalizing recreational cannabis;  -The opening of 'The Drugs Store' in Vancouver, British Columbia: a mobile store selling drugs illegally as a response to the opioid epidemic and constant influx of untested and laced drugs – the "inevitable result of the government doing nothing" towards offering a safe supply;  -and a survey from the CDC showing that cannabis use among teenagers has declined since legal dispensaries began opening, disproving one of the most common prohibitionist arguments that legalization would only increase use.  And of course, these topics bring on a lot of conversation: how businesses need to be more reflective on how they're operating; concern over if too much regulation is nerfing the world; the human cost of the drug war and the ever-escalating amount of ODs and drug poisoning cases; HPPD and the need for research around psychedelics and vision/perception; why we will always need both clinical access and the recreational underground, and more. www.psychedelicstoday.com

In this episode, Joe interviews Erica Rex: award-winning journalist, past guest and writer, and participant in one of the first ever clinical trials using psilocybin to treat cancer-related depression; and Mona Sobhani, Ph.D.: cognitive neuroscientist and the author of "Proof of Spiritual Phenomena: A Neuroscientist's Discovery of the Ineffable Mysteries of the Universe." As Rex discovered the power of psychedelics through a clinical trial, she discusses a huge problem she discovered: that researchers are not preparing participants enough for the ontological shock they may go through in trying to match unexplainable happenings to a rigid framework (or match the normal to a framework that has suddenly shifted) – that while patients have support at the clinic, it all disappears when they return to normal life. She believes that all too often, researchers are doing only what is necessary to be able to continue to receive funding, push drugs through the FDA, and prescribe a pill.  And as psychedelics changed Sobhani from very constrained scientific thinking to being very open to new ideas about consciousness and spirituality, she learned that many scientists had similar stories, and that coming out of the psychedelic closet is sometimes the best thing to do to normalize these ways of healing.  They discuss the challenges of newcomers trying to explain their experience without having the necessary language; how we still don't truly understand mental illness; how the DSM just clusters symptoms to fit 'disorders' into a box; how society has started pathologizing anything we find unpleasant (which of course, is a part of being human); Gary Fisher's research on using LSD and psilocybin for schizophrenic children, why science needs to combine consciousness research and psychedelics research, and more. www.psychedelicstoday.com

In this episode of Psychedelics Weekly, Joe and Kyle record in-person again, discussing psychedelics and parenthood, sports, music, and more.  They cover: -an Elle (!) article about how mushrooms are becoming the new 'Cali sober,' with more and more people starting to microdose – including parents;  -ESPN's documentary, "Peace of Mind," highlighting the rise of psychedelic use among athletes, including retired NHL player, Riley Cote; -An article discussing how interest in psychedelics has skyrocketed in Oregon since the passing of Measure 109, and how over-regulation and the glacial speed of the government is only driving the growth of the black market;  -An essay attempting to define what it is that leads people to describe music as psychedelic (with several recommendations from Joe);  -DMT aficionados using AI to create and catalog depictions of the entities they've seen; and more! And they have larger discussions about the drug war, how famous athletes are opening people's minds to psychedelics, how strict regulation in psychedelic legislation can create more harm, how we need to collaborate more in the psychedelic space, the concept of a DMT 'hyper-slap,' and the problem of psychedelic exceptionalism and thinking your drug is good while others are bad. www.psychedelicstoday.com

In this episode, David interviews two founding members of Fireside Project: activist, healing justice practitioner, musician, and Chief Ambassador, Hanifa Nayo Washington; and lawyer, aspiring researcher, and Executive Director, Joshua White, Esq. Fireside Project was created after White volunteered for a help line for years and realized a few things: that follow-up calls made a big difference; that the state of mental health in the U.S. was a disaster (he was talking to some of the same people for years); and that while psychedelics were becoming popular, they would likely only be accessible to the wealthy. Alongside Washington, they realized the most effective thing they could do would be creating a free help line where people could call for peer support during a psychedelic experience, and receive support in integrating that experience afterward. They've focused on finding volunteers who may be marginalized or who have been persecuted from the war on drugs, but most importantly, have real experience and true compassion (rather than letters after their name proving their credentials). They are on track to receive 10,000 calls over their first two years. They discuss Fireside's Burning Man origin story; the serendipity they've seen in the organization's beginnings and so many calls; where the name came from; how they prepare volunteers; what true equity looks like; and how, while it's a common challenge for therapists and facilitators to hold back and not try to fix a problem, that may be even more important here. Fireside Project takes calls every day from 11am – 11pm PST, and while there is an app you can download, they recommend saving their number in your phone for when you need it (62-FIRESIDE). And to destroy the notion of being afraid to ask for help, they encourage everyone to share their stories on social media: the times that you've used Fireside Project or the times you had a challenging experience and wish you had known about them. Many newcomers have no idea this support exists, and it could truly be life-changing for them. www.psychedelicstoday.com

In this episode of Psychedelics Weekly, David speaks with Kyle, who recorded at Joe's place while he was away at Trailblazers in NYC.  They talk about David's trip to the UK last week for Breaking Convention, then discuss a recent Vice article about looking outside the binary and confined thinking of Western medicine and embracing the underground – that there are cheaper and more accessible peer support models and affinity groups for everyone, but in going underground, we need to be careful that more accessible models aren't dangerous or re-traumatizing. While businesses are competing to make headway in the psychedelic space, nobody is controlling all of it, which leads to both possibility and risk.  They cover SB23-290, the bill Senate President Steve Fenberg created to establish a regulatory framework for psilocybin access and administration in Colorado in lieu of the advisory board that should have been put in place as part of Prop 122. They break down the positives and negatives of this framework, and ask: how much do these committees who are passing legislation really know about psilocybin?  And they briefly discuss an article on what MDMA therapy may look like when MAPS hopefully gets approval via the FDA early next year, Rick Doblin's speech at Breaking Convention, and his concept of society eventually having "net zero trauma." www.psychedelicstoday.com

In this episode, Joe interviews Deborah Parrish Snyder: ecologist, Director and VP of the Institute of Ecotechnics, and Co-owner and CEO of Synergetic Press, which has published over 40 books on ethnobotany, psychedelics, biospherics, and social and ecological justice.  Straddling the line between ecology, psychedelics, and psyche, she discusses the many projects of the Institute: Biosphere 2, the large-scale closed ecological system she helped design in 1986; London's "October Gallery," a man-made city biome project that could be a model for other cities; their "Eden in Iraq" wastewater project; and the Heraclitus, an 82-foot ship which has sailed 270k miles around the earth, studying different cultures, mapping coral reefs, and more, and will soon be setting sail again after being rebuilt for the last decade.   She talks about where we're at as a society in regards to the environment: how we're in a period of consequences and it's easy to feel hopeless, but much of the youth are "solutionists" who don't want to hear apologies, and instead, want to do something about it. She believes that while schools don't teach ecology, it's never too late to learn, and non-ordinary states of consciousness could help people remember our connection to nature, care about our planet, and find the others who feel the same way. Consider pairing your self-exploration with improving the world around you: what can you do to turn your perfect, overly fertilized lawn into a regenerative landscape instead? www.psychedelicstoday.com

In this episode of Psychedelics Weekly, Joe and Kyle once again record in person, diving into novel compounds, changing opinions, Bicycle Day, and more.  They start by dissecting a very recent controversy around The Church of Psilomethoxin and whether the sacrament they label as psilomethoxin – supposedly created by adding 5-MeO-DMT to the substrate of cultivated Psilocybe mushrooms – actually contains any psilomethoxin in it. Usona Institute published a paper last week reporting on their analysis of a sample they allegedly collected from the Church, which only showed what we'd see in a sample of a typical psilocybin-containing mushroom. While the Church has issues with Usona's data collection, analytical methods, and motives, they also reiterate a main component of the church: that their "claims to the existence of Psilomethoxin, at this time, are solely based on faith," and bolstered by their "own direct experiences with the Sacrament." It's a very interesting story that touches on faith, consent, personal safety, and the harms of the drug war, which Joe covered extensively in a Twitter Space last night with Andrew Gallimore and the writer of a very critical article, Mario de la Fuente.  They also discuss:  -a Time magazine article about the mystery of Long COVID, and how many believe the anti-inflammatory and neuroplastic benefits of psychedelics could be the answer;  -how Bicycle Day may soon become more popular than 4/20, likely due to society's warmer reception to the life-changing effects of psychedelics (as opposed to their propagandized and unmoving beliefs about cannabis);  -how some analysts believe that seven in 10 ketamine companies will likely face financial challenges as the industry grows too quickly;  and why Snoop Dogg apparently microwaves blunts before smoking them (and does that actually do anything?). www.psychedelicstoday.com

In this episode, on the eve of Bicycle Day, Victoria and Kyle interview two long-standing icons of visionary psychedelic art: Alex and Allyson Grey. They talk about the LSD trip that saved Alex's life, connected him to Allyson, inspired his art, and even made him change his name; his decades-in-the-making "Sacred Mirrors" project of 21 7-foot tall pieces depicting the complex layers of human existence; the interconnectedness of life; the history of psychedelic art; how imagination and non-ordinary states help us connect with the divine; and the value of art in conveying the mystical experience. Alex and Allyson are the Co-Founders of the Chapel of Sacred Mirrors, an interspiritual church/retreat center in upstate New York that, after years of work, is debuting Entheon: an art sanctuary and psychedelic reliquary featuring much of their art and work from favorite artists, a shrine to Tool (who Alex has worked with for most of their career), and a collection of relics from psychedelic legends that includes Albert Hofmann's glasses, art signed by Stan Grof and the Shulgins, and even Timothy Leary's ashes. Entheon opens on June 3, on the anniversary of the first acid trip the Greys took together, which gave them a framework for understanding life and an inspiration for art they still follow to this day. And in honor of Bicycle Day, Alex talks about two pieces dedicated to Albert Hofmann, and continues his Bicycle Day tradition of reading a statement Hofmann made a year before he passed about psychedelics being the "absolute highest importance to consciousness change." In celebration of Albert Hofmann and the gift he gave us, and with inspiration from the incredibly complex and beautiful art Alex and Allyson create, have a happy, safe, and creative Bicycle Day!  www.psychedelicstoday.com

In this episode, Joe interviews Melissa Lavasani: CEO of Washington, DC-based Psychedelic Medicine Coalition and now, President of the brand new Psychedelic Medicine PAC. She discusses her path to psychedelics, how she ended up running the Initiative 81 campaign (the Entheogenic Plant and Fungus Policy Act of 2020), and how she came to realize that decriminalization efforts can't be the only option we go for – that, like it or not, we live in a system where politics and money are major factors behind any systematic change, and if we want to make any headway, we have to play the game. The Psychedelic Medicine PAC (Political Action Committee) was created to open up federal funding for psychedelic research, as nearly all research today (of which there still isn't enough) is being funded by private companies. They will use donations to support politicians who are on our side and can advance psychedelic progress, who will push for federal funding to get the new and necessary data people who aren't bought in yet need to see.  They talk about speaking with people from the other side of the aisle at a recent education campaign in DC; how federal funding is neutral money; what she learned from DC's deprioritization of cannabis policing; how personal stories and one-on-one human connection can change minds better than traditional confrontational activism; and the need to get ahead of the inevitable wave of big pharma propaganda they'll bring when they officially step up to the table. She believes the path to helping the most people is advancing science and data through federal funding, and that begins with education and getting more politicians on our side. If you agree, follow them for details about their upcoming event in May, visit their table at Psychedelic Science this June (use PT15 for 15% off tickets), and donate to the PAC or the coalition.  Also, as a bonus, this episode begins with a mini version of Psychedelics Weekly. Joe and Kyle didn't have enough time to record a full episode, but still wanted to check in and review a few notable stories and highlight our recent Vital graduation ceremony. See you next week! www.psychedelicstoday.com

In this episode, Joe lets Court Wing take lead in interviewing two of the leaders behind Clusterbusters: Founder and Executive Director, Bob Wold; and President, Eileen Brewer. A long-time friend of the show, Court Wing has become our resident expert on chronic pain, writing articles about how psilocybin relieved his chronic pain, and hosting Timothy Furnish, MD & Joel Castellanos, MD in their episode about phantom limb pain. Now he speaks with Clusterbusters, a non-profit dedicated to educating people about the horrors of cluster headaches, funding ongoing research into new treatments, and normalizing the miracle that psilocybin has been to so many sufferers in alleviating their headaches.  Wold and Brewer discuss their past struggles (Wold is a cluster sufferer and Brewer has migraine disease) and discovering the amazing intervention of psychedelics; the battles they've gone through in spreading this knowledge; how using psychedelics is also helping people work through PTSD; the barriers that legal psilocybin is creating; the concept of schools having a drug education program; the research looking at cluster headaches and other headache diseases; their creation of the Pain And Psychedelics Association, and more. While cluster headache sufferers have a lot to be frustrated about; as psilocybin becomes more mainstream and more and more research is funded, they now have a lot of hope. www.psychedelicstoday.com

In this episode of Psychedelics Weekly, Kyle is back in Colorado and in-person with Joe, and they discuss what stood out to them in the news this week: -A New York Times interview with Roland Griffths, where he talks about his cancer diagnosis and how meditation and psychedelics have helped him prepare for the inevitable end; -An article on the rising popularity of psychedelics among mothers, and the benefits and risks of moms rejecting alcohol culture in favor of something new (and largely illegal); -The NBA removing cannabis from its list of banned substances and allowing players to invest in cannabis companies, which follows years of other sports slowly accepting that cannabis is a part of our culture and there's no need to play the part of "big brother" anymore; and an article looking at legalization from the perspectives of people who were against recent measures like Prop 122, and how some towns in Colorado and Oregon are looking for ways to prevent the creation of psilocybin service centers from being built in their backyards. They also go further into the Psychedelic Medicine Coalition's recently created Political Action Committee and the work they're doing to educate lawmakers; Harvard Law School hosting webinars comparing psychedelic legislation and the role of psychedelics in Indigenous groups in Europe, Australia, and North America; Arizona's HB-2486, which would give $30 million in grants to universities and non-profit organizations to conduct psilocybin research; and Rick Doblin's recent appearance on The Joe Rogan Experience. www.psychedelicstoday.com

In this episode, David interviews neuroscientist, artist, and educator, Melanie Pincus, Ph.D.; and Ph.D. candidate in Neuroscience, lead or co-author on over a dozen scientific publications, and regular contributor to PT, Manesh Girn.  They tell their stories of how they became interested in neuroscience, and stress the importance of staying radically open-minded (or "epistemically naive") when it comes to how much we can claim we understand about the brain, the mind-body connection, and consciousness itself – that while fMRI and other advances have brought us a long way, there are still a ton of "unknown unknowns," especially around creativity, decision making, and imagination. They discuss the misconception that we only use 10% of our brains; comparisons between the brain and the universe; society's misunderstanding of "happy hormones" (dopamine, serotonin, etc.); how chronic stress takes a toll on all parts of the body; how MDMA works with memory processing; and how stacking modalities with the psychedelic experience (like play or activities focused on emotion regulation) can really help with personal goals and growth.  They have taken their understanding and fascination with neuroscience and applied it to a new course in our Psychedelic Education Center: "Psychedelic Neuroscience Demystified: How Psychedelics Alter Consciousness and Produce Therapeutic Effects": an 8-week live course with 10 hours of prerecorded material and a built-in community. It was designed with practitioners and clinicians in mind, but with the goal of still being as accessible as possible for anyone who is curious about the neuroscience of psychedelics, and how that knowledge can help with preparation, the journey, integration, and working with a heightened window of neuroplasticity.  Class begins on May 17, and if you sign up before April 12, you can get $100 off! www.psychedelicstoday.com

In this episode of Psychedelics Weekly, Joe calls in from Los Angeles to cover the week's news with David.  They review:  -Dr. Julie Holland's recent appearance on the The Cannabis Investing Podcast, where she discussed the concept of cannabis being a psychedelic; -Vancouver Island University in British Columbia, Canada, planning to establish a Psychedelic Research Centre, with a focus on the historical and ethical context of psychedelic substances, using a "two eyed seeing" approach that combines Western-style science with Indigenous perspectives; -A group of investors creating a Real Estate Investment Trust (REIT) to purchase real estate for the purposes of psychedelic therapy, which, if used as the collaborative model we imagine it could be, could solve a lot of problems; -Diplo completing the Los Angeles Marathon in 3 hours and 35 minutes while under a reported 4-5 drops of LSD, and the dismissive spin mainstream media added to the story;  and a Rolling Stone article focusing on (and somewhat oversimplifying) the conflicts between the medicalization and decriminalization/legalization camps (can we just do both?). The articles of course lead to much larger discussions: how cannabis has helped David overcome OCD; the need for more transparency and a review system based on abusive behavior in the psychedelic space; the idea of collectivization in therapy models; why we need to agree on ethical foundations; and our general misunderstanding of IP and IP law: was all the criticism of Compass Pathways unwarranted? www.psychedelicstoday.com

In this episode, David interviews Sunny Strasburg, LMFT: Clinical Director at TRIPP PsyAssist; psychedelic trainer, consultant, therapist, and writer, specializing in EMDR and Internal Family Systems, and offering ketamine-assisted therapy as well as ketamine therapy retreats (often co-led by Dr. Richard Schwartz).  She talks about her family history with magic, and how the act of calling energy in and out pairs with psychedelic work; how the human experience is made up of contrasts; why we need to embrace the recreational part of psychedelics; how art can be used more in therapy; and how post-experience group integration is the act of creating mythology, recreating the small-community-sitting-by-the-fire archetype – that community we so desperately need. And she discusses ketamine: different ways she uses it; how it pairs perfectly with Internal Family Systems; and how it's autobiographical medicine, making us an observer and allowing us to separate ourselves from our story. While passionate about the mystical, magic, and reconnecting to nature, she is also very involved with virtual reality, and she discusses how VR and meditation apps are easing people into non-ordinary states and familiarizing people with breathwork. With the help of pioneering psychedelic DJ, David Starfire, she created PsyAssist, an app with music playlists and voice integration for people to enhance ketamine experiences that don't otherwise include therapy or integration work. PsyAssist was acquired by VR company, TRIPP, and they're running a study on people using VR before a psychedelic experience to see if data proves that VR really does reduce the anxiety so many of us feel before taking that big journey. But she reminds us: as we become more connected to technology, VR, and AI, being connected to other human beings will become more and more important. www.psychedelicstoday.com

In this episode, Joe interviews Ph.D. student in the Drug Use and Behavior Lab at the University of Alabama Birmingham, Haley Maria Dourron. She talks mostly about the paper she co-authored last year with Dr. Peter Hendricks and Camilla Strauss: "Self-Entropic Broadening Theory: Toward a New Understanding of Self and Behavior Change Informed by Psychedelics and Psychosis," which analyzes the long-standing comparisons between the psychedelic state and psychosis, and points out important distinctions between the two – that science should be looking more at the way one processes information and their level of self-focus rather than similarities in outward behavior. She discusses what she calls entropic processing, which is essentially how one's brain creates novel ideas, relations, and insights based on very loosened mental schemas: with new information being considered in new ways (with no filter), do the connecting pathways that seem like eureka moments actually make sense?  She discusses the broaden and build theory and the broadening of intentional scope; entropy; chronic LSD use and risk of psychosis; schizophrenia and psychedelics; why science needs to embrace naturalistic research, and more. As of this release date, there are still a few participatory spots left in her current study on the effect of psychedelic experiences on people who have a history of psychosis, so if you had an episode of psychosis at some point and have gone on to use psychedelics, she wants to hear your story. Head to the show notes for the link. www.psychedelicstoday.com

In this episode of Psychedelics Weekly, Joe and Kyle are back at it, talking about news and what's going on at Psychedelics Today (applications for Vital close this Sunday, March 26, and we've just announced a new neuroscience course!). Following up on last week's news that Field Trip Health had closed five clinics, they start with more unfortunate news: that Field Trip is laying off a lot of people, Ronan Levy has resigned as the CEO, trading has been suspended, and the company has obtained CCAA Protection (which, through the Companies' Creditors Arrangement Act, essentially allows a struggling company a chance to restructure its finances to avoid bankruptcy, all through a formal Plan of Arrangement). And in similar news, all Ketamine Wellness Centers (an Arizona company recently acquired by Delic Holdings) would be closing immediately, with employees let go with little warning or explanation. These stories (and Synthesis Institute's downfall) highlight the sad reality many of us in the psychedelic space forget: that just because a business is heart-centered and psychedelic-minded, it's still a business, and businesses need to be profitable to survive.  Next, they cover Melissa Lavasani and the Psychedelic Medicine Coalition creating the Psychedelic Medicine PAC (Political Action Committee) to get more government funding behind psychedelic research. Members of PMC went to D.C. last week, presenting a psychedelic briefing to begin the process of educating legislators about the realities of plant medicines and psychedelic-assisted therapy (and Joe was there).  And they discuss more: concerns over Australia's recent about-face on MDMA and psilocybin being used legally; a recent study where researchers used EEG and fMRI together to record what is happening in the brain while under the influence of DMT (and we should probably have Manesh Girn on again to explain it better than we could); and an interview with Eric Andre at SXSW where, in about 2 minutes, he brilliantly shines a light on drug exceptionalism, the lies of the drug war, and the need for more education on psychedelics – all to a bewildered reporter who didn't seem prepared to talk to Eric Andre (we are- please come on the podcast!). www.psychedelicstoday.com

In this episode, Joe interviews the Co-Founder and CEO of Beckley Retreats, Neil Markey.  Markey describes Beckley Retreats as comprehensive well-being programs, and talks about the importance of holistic wellness – that, while the retreats are centered around two group psilocybin experiences, the true benefits come from complementary factors: the four weeks of online prep and community building before the retreat, the six days in Jamaica surrounding the experiences, the six weeks of integration work after, and the depth of connections people find in the new community they may not have realized they needed so badly. He breaks down the details of the retreats and what they look for in facilitators, and tells a few success stories that really highlight how trauma, opposing ideas, and an infatuation with material objects and amassing wealth can all get in the way of real relationships and meaning.  Beckley Retreats is currently working on two new projects: an observational study with Heroic Hearts and Imperial College London on using psilocybin for-traumatic brain injury, and a study with Bennet Zelner and the University of Maryland to bring executives through a retreat to see how it affects leadership and decision-making: can they prove that these types of experiences lead to more heart-centered leaders? www.psychedelicstoday.com

In this episode of Psychedelics Weekly, Joe and Kyle join up once again to discuss the news and articles they found the most interesting this week.  They start with the business news everyone is talking about: Field Trip Health & Wellness closing 5 of their clinics due to financial struggles (a deficit of $48.7 million since their inception and a net loss of $6.9 million reported for the last quarter), little confidence they'd be able to receive more funding, and the changing landscape of ketamine telehealth now that the Covid Public Health Emergency should finally come to an end in May. They also highlight an article dissecting the collapse of Synthesis Institute and the lessons to be learned, with both stories really showing just how new and unstable psychedelic business still is, and how the allure of first-mover advantage can be a dangerous gamble. They also discuss four drug reform bills introduced in Vermont: two of which would decriminalize simple possession of all drugs, making a "personal use supply of drugs" a civil offense with a $50 fine; one removing penalties for using or selling psilocybin; and the last decriminalizing certain psychedelic plants and fungi.  And they look at a research study aiming to learn more about people's lives after they've been involved in a clinical trial, Time Magazine's article about psychedelics and couples therapy, and a study that found that while 64% of survey respondents said at-home ketamine helped their symptoms, 55% (and 58% of Millennials) said they used more than the recommended dose – either by accident or on purpose. www.psychedelicstoday.com

In this episode, David hosts another Vital Psychedelic Conversation, this time with Bennet Zelner, Ph.D.: Vital instructor who teaches economics at the University of Maryland Smith School of Business; and Giles Hayward: Vital student and Co-Founder of Woven Science (a company backing and building psychedelic and wellness tech companies) and El Puente, which focuses on Indigenous biocultural preservation. Zelner believes that the traditional capitalist system we've grown accustomed to is an extractive and predatory one directly in opposition to a natural system we should be striving to emulate – one that circulates resources and exits largely in equilibrium with its different parts. His concept of the Pollination Approach (or regenerative economics) is about developing economic structures that are capable of balance: where communities are built to directly benefit each other and where businesses are structured to share resources and capital to all involved. In a hyper-individualistic system where loneliness and never feeling good enough are key drivers of depression, anxiety, and trauma, how could we not benefit from feeling more connected to each other, our communities, and the businesses that exist within them?  They talk about different ways the pollination approach could be applied; how psychedelics disrupt these broken systems; how we can make these treatments affordable; and why we should be focusing on the delivery and integration of substances rather than creating new ones. And since Hayward is about to graduate from Vital's inaugural run, he shares his feelings on the program and how it fell into this concept of regenerative economics.  The application deadline for this year's Vital has been extended to March 26, but that will be the last extension. So if you're interested, now is the time to apply! www.psychedelicstoday.com

In this episode, Joe interviews Graham Hancock: legendary bestselling author and writer and presenter of the new Netflix docuseries, "Ancient Apocalypse," where he travels the world looking for evidence of lost civilizations likely much more advanced than historians previously believed. Hancock talks about his early books and how ayahuasca influenced his writing; the similarities in cave art and the common link of altered states of consciousness; how integral non-ordinary states of consciousness likely were to early religion (especially Christianity); how much the annihilation of religious traditions has hidden history; why his and Rupert Sheldrake's Tedx talks were originally taken offline; new understandings of Neanderthals' intelligence and creativity; the Quetzalcóatl; and the concept of the Younger Dryas impact hypothesis: could there have been an advanced civilization 12,800 years ago that we're just starting to comprehend? Could it have been Atlantis?  He discusses the conflict with mystery and archaeology's obsession with scientism and materialist reductionism – that we keep trying to force everything into little boxes of approved science and have lost our imaginations and openness to possibility, especially when you realize how often narratives are built based on interpretations of data rather than facts (since the farther back we go, evidence becomes harder to come by). He believes science needs humility, a willingness to listen to Indigenous history, and a much more open mind when it comes to altered states of consciousness: "I'm convinced we're missing something important from our past, and if we don't look for it, we won't find it." Hancock has just announced that he will be a speaker at UK's Breaking Convention, April 20 - 22 at the University of Exeter, and some of the PT team will be there too! To save 10% off tickets, use code PSYCHTODAYBC10 at checkout. www.psychedelicstoday.com

In this episode of Psychedelics Weekly, David is joined by Kyle, who is finally home after a lot of traveling, to talk shop and dig into the articles they found the most interesting this week.  They begin with the news that Paul Stamets now has a species of mushroom named after him (Psilocybe stametsii), then take a look at a recent self-report study called "Prevalence and associations of challenging, difficult or distressing experiences using classic psychedelics," which aimed to collect data on just how many psychedelic users (in this study, anyone who had ever tried a psychedelic) felt that they had had a challenging or difficult experience. They discuss the results and highlight some interesting data: that LSD was the most commonly associated substance, that smoking cannabis was one of the most commonly reported interventions, and of course, the question of whether or not these experiences were beneficial.  They then talk about Synthesis Institute closing its doors, the possible hope Synthesis could have, and the sadness in this – when businesses fail, it's easy to look at numbers and profit margins and be dismissive, but we forget the people involved; not just at Synthesis, but the hundreds of would-be students.  And lastly, they look at an article about a California-based startup called the Reality Center, which uses a combination of pulsing lights, sounds, and vibrations to create a drug-free but seemingly very psychedelic experience, reminding us yet again that you do not need a substance to achieve  non-ordinary states of consciousness. www.psychedelicstoday.com

In this episode of Vital Psychedelic Conversations, David interviews Vital instructor, Dr. Devon Christie: Senior Lead of Psychedelic Programs at Numinus, MAPS-certified MDMA therapist, and now four-time guest; and Vital student, Emefa Boamah: coach, facilitator, and trauma-informed intuitive guide specializing in embodiment.  We've all heard the trope, "It's all in your mind," but it's also in your heart, soul, community, support system, and body - the focus of this episode. Christie and Boamah dive deep into the various aspects of the relationship between non-ordinary states and our bodies: ways to embody our bodies more; how the body is a fundamental source of truth; the benefit of checking in with one's body after an experience (to validate or disprove what may have come up); the importance of movement and rest; the different bodies we inhabit (physical, emotional, energetic, mental, and spiritual); and ways to accept (and eventually love) our bodies in a society that's always working to make us hate them – is self-love the ultimate act of defiance? They also discuss the post-experience plasticity in everything, and the challenge of preparing an experiencer for something we can't know; how facilitators and practitioners need to track their own subconscious feelings and reactions; the concept of embodied inquiry; the necessity of remaining curious and humble; and the idea of using integrative practices to find ways to become the person you want to be – the person you may have seen glimpses of in non-ordinary states.  And as this year's edition comes to an end, Boamah reflects on her experiences with Vital, particularly the communal aspects of the retreat and how healing it was to literally be lifted up by her companions. Head to the show notes to see a video showcasing some of the Vital experience, and if you're curious about whether Vital is right for you, please come to an upcoming Q+A. Applications close March 19! www.psychedelicstoday.com

In this episode, in celebration of International Women's Day, Victoria interviews Tracey Tee: co-founder and CEO of Band of Mothers Media, co-producer and co-host of the Band of Mothers podcast, and founder of Moms on Mushrooms, an online educational community for psychedelic-curious moms outside the prying eyes of social media. With similar histories of womb trauma, self discovery, and body reconnection, Victoria and Tracey discuss the complications of motherhood, substance use and embracing psychedelics in a broken culture, in which engaging with small, approved coping mechanisms is fine – where the "wine mom" archetype and numbing yourself with medications is celebrated, but where we don't often talk about how challenging motherhood can really be, and the lasting mental, physical, and spiritual impacts of birth, loss, and grief. Tracey's goal with Moms on Mushrooms is to bring mothers together for personal growth, healing, and most of all, for the safe, supportive container that so many women considering plant medicine need. She tells her story of creating and performing "The Pump and Dump Show" and the psychedelic journeys that led her to creating M.O.M., and discusses much more: how those large dose journeys reconnected her with her body; how microdosing has helped her feel more vulnerable, honest, and in tune with her daughter; how psychedelics can help parents realize where problematic core beliefs came from; how teaching children the ways of the world forces parents to confront and reaffirm what they truly believe; and the challenges mothers face in even talking about wanting to try psychedelics. If you're a mother and this episode resonates with you, check out Tee's Microdosing 101 (for moms) course or join the Moms on Mushrooms community for $4.44 a month. www.psychedelicstoday.com

In this episode, Psychedelics Weekly is back after a brief hiatus (everyone was either traveling or sick last week!), with the OG PT team: Joe and Kyle.  With the exception of some commentary on John Oliver's recent piece on psychedelics (which was excellent), they skip the psychedelic news this week in favor of Psychedelics Today news, as a lot has been going on! In the last few weeks: Joe sustained a traumatic brain injury and a broken arm; Joe, Kyle, and Victoria attended PT's first Cannadelic in Miami, where Joe and Kyle moderated or sat on several panels, Kyle and Victoria went and saw Afroman, and we won the Psychedelic Brand of the Year award(!); Joe experienced a music festival in different ways (completely sober, and somewhat still in a concussion daze) and did some interesting research on psychedelics and post-concussion effects; Despite Joe and Kyle both getting sick and not being able to attend all of it, the last Vital retreat was an amazing one, capping off a year of incredible content and connection that is only fueling the fire to make this year's Vital even better; And, due to issues beyond our control with the planned venue and the City of Los Angeles, we had to cancel Convergence. Phew! As promised, lots going on!  www.psychedelicstoday.com

In this episode, David interviews Kevin Cannella, LPC: MAPS-trained psychedelic psychotherapist and Co-Founder and Executive Director of Thank You Life, a nonprofit organization working to provide access to psychedelic therapy by eliminating its financial barriers. Co-Founded by Dr. Dan Engle, Thank You Life is very new and still in the process of officially launching, having just obtained 501(c)(3) status in December and recently gaining its first corporate sponsor in Dr. Bronner's. The nonprofit came from the realization of just how expensive psychedelic-assisted therapy can be, and Cannella wondering: what if there was a fund practitioners could plug into when a patient couldn't pay? While access for the patient is obvious, this model benefits the practitioner as well, which is something not often discussed in the psychedelic space – we focus a lot on how much these services will cost the patient, but rarely on the practitioner deserving to be paid fairly for their time and expertise.  Cannella tells his story of immersion into a world of ayahuasca, yoga, and vipassana meditation; volunteering at the Temple of the Way of Light, living in Hawaii, then Brazil, and finally, landing at Naropa University, where his passions were finally validated. He discusses looking for signs and learning to trust intuition, ways to increase accessibility outside of a 501(c)(3) model, how it feels to be paid well for your work, and why he only wants to work with practitioners who offer therapy alongside their chosen substance. Head to their website to donate to the Thank You Life fund, and follow them on socials for details on upcoming launch/fundraising events in April and May. www.psychedelicstoday.com

In this episode, David interviews Victor Alfonso Cabral, LSW: Director of Policy and Regulatory Affairs at Fluence Training and Licensed Social Worker and practicing psychotherapist in Pennsylvania. Cabral is currently involved with the film, "We are the Medicine," which aims to explore the reemergence of plant medicines from the perspective of people of color from all backgrounds and walks of life, with the added factor of a strong hip hop influence. Filmmakers Eric Blackerby and Esteban Serrano want the film to normalize the concept of psychedelics and healing for people of color, but also the notion of men being truly authentic with each other and building each other up with love and support – something that challenges society's expectations on how men (and more specifically, Black and Brown men) should be in relationships with one another. Head to pictureacolorfulworld.com to donate and sign up for the mailing list for more info on future fundraisers and screenings.  He begins the episode by reading a powerful poem he read at Horizons NYC, then tells his story: his childhood and his mother's sacrifices; how trauma caught up to him in college and led to the low point of his life; his subsequent 120-pound weight loss journey and embracing of therapy, how his first psychedelic experience resulted in an awakening of possibility; how he became a social worker and why he felt instantly aligned with the work; how he ended up working for PA Governor Tom Wolf; and how he came to be interviewed by Sway Calloway (who is also an Executive Producer of the film). His story and all of the organizations and efforts he's been involved with prove that being authentic, following your heart, and building relationships with the right people can lead to growth and positive change in whatever path you choose in this space.  www.psychedelicstoday.com

In this episode, Joe interviews Greg Lake, Esq.: Co-Founder of the Church of Psilomethoxin, author, and attorney specializing in working with entheogen-based religious practitioners in establishing their right to consume their sacraments under existing religious freedom laws. Psilomethoxin (4-Hydroxy-5-methoxydimethyltryptamine or 4-Hydroxy-5-MeO-DMT) was first synthesized in 2021 by mixing 5-MeO-DMT with psilocybin substrate, and after initial tests and months of user reports, it was deemed safe to use.* Lake co-founded the Church of Psilomethoxin in 2022 with the goal of shifting the paradigm of religion to primary direct experiences and individual beliefs rather than a dogma everyone must follow, with a big focus on community and discussing the ultimate questions of life together – with Psilomethoxin as the sacrament of choice. While he prefers member-to-member referrals, there is an application on the site, and he hopes to grow the church through linking people up regionally, (eventually) training people to facilitate, and partnering with a data collection company to gather real-world data on both Psilomethoxin and on why people are seeking out psychedelic churches in the first place.  He discusses several cases that brought us here and inspired his work; why he believes Psilomethoxin won't be a target of the Federal Analogue Act; the Religious Freedom Restoration Act (RFRA) and the need for states to establish similar state legislation; the importance of new churches establishing evidence in the public record; how much courts take sincerity into consideration; and the concept that, while we're quick to think of the law as the enemy, courts often don't want to go after churches – religion is a sacred and intimate thing, so who is the victim if a court brings a church to court that hasn't harmed anyone? www.psychedelicstoday.com *Update, April 17, 2023: Results from analytical testing released on April 12, 2023, reveal that there is no evidence to suggest the compound psilomethoxin is present in the samples of sacrament material the Church of Psilomethoxin is offering to their members online. The report, prepared by Samuel Williamson and Alexander Sherwood of the Usona Institute, states, "Psilocybin, baeocystin, and psilocin, were, however, unambiguously identified in the sample, suggesting that the claims regarding the biosynthesis of psilomethoxin may be misguided. The implications of these findings should be critically considered within the context of public health and safety." We are following this story at Psychedelics Today and are working to update our community with commentary from the researchers. Stay tuned to our social media channels for more on this topic.

In this episode of Vital Psychedelic Conversations, Kyle interviews Carla Kieffer: psychedelic educator, Certified Psychedelic Facilitator, Community Liaison at Maya Health, and Founder of Kairos Integration, a company offering psychedelic training, preparation, facilitation, integration, and microdosing support. This episode was recorded in-person, in between the first and second psilocybin retreats at Atman Retreat in Jamaica, where Kyle, Johanna, and a large group of Vital students just worked with Carla last month. Many participants that attend retreats are new to psychedelics, and often don't know each other, so it was powerful to have a group of classmates follow the breathwork model of having sitters and journeyers take turns (which is the same model she uses for her Psychedelic Guide Training and Certificate Program), and demonstrates how much one can learn when taking the role of the sitter and how the journey becomes the teacher. They talk about how big the therapy part of psychedelic-assisted therapy is, in how rare it is to have someone attending to your every need for hours on end, and wonder: How can we take that aspect of holding space for each other and apply it to everyday life?  She discusses the importance of data collection and how her Internal Family Systems training has helped her balance her love for the mystical with her more science and data-based mind; the importance in facilitators meeting some sort of baseline harm reduction and safety training (and the need to establish an agreed-upon set of standards); the need for increased accessibility; how important it is to further educate about and normalize conversations about psychedelics; and how integration isn't just a box you check off as part of the experience, but a continuous process and part of our lives, where checking in on ourselves should be a regular practice. www.psychedelicstoday.com

In this episode, Joe interviews Dr. Devon Christie: Senior Lead of Psychedelic Programs at Numinus, educator at CIIS and Vital, and MAPS-certified MDMA therapist; and Dr. Pamela Kryskow, MD: founding board member of the Psychedelic Association of Canada and Medical Lead of the nonprofit, Roots To Thrive. Christie and Kryskow recently co-authored one of the first papers looking at MDMA for chronic pain, "MDMA-assisted therapy is associated with a reduction in chronic pain among people with post-traumatic stress disorder," which came about after they received access to MAPS' Phase 2 data from a lead-in PTSD study and noticed significant improvements in pain measurements – something the study was not looking for at all. They're looking into where chronic pain fits within the frameworks of Western medicine and psychedelic-assisted therapy, and discuss the many reasons why MDMA should be tremendously helpful for chronic pain and other conditions that fall under the large umbrella of central sensitivity syndromes and nociplastic pain. They are currently working on a new study following the MAPS protocol that will research MDMA-assisted psychotherapy specifically for people with fibromyalgia, which some believe might be physicalized PTSD. If you'd like to contribute a tax-deductible donation, visit giving.viu.ca, select "other" from the dropdown, and type in "MDMA for Fibromyalgia." They talk about how research trials focus too much on the molecule while ignoring what the patient is saying; how a large percentage of physicians and patients don't at all like the psychometrics used in measuring data; how physicians regularly use expectancy bias but research trials don't (and how that affects results); why everyone needs to place higher importance on the biopsychosocial model; the idea of being more humble with science and using "theoretical" more often; the problems with microdosing trials; and the issues with evidence: If there isn't sufficient evidence, why isn't there? And what exactly would be sufficient? www.psychedelicstoday.com

In this episode of Psychedelics Weekly, Kyle is joined by another new voice from the PT team: one of the main instructors and facilitators from our Vital program, Diego Pinzon.  Originally from Colombia, Diego has been living in Australia since 2008 and has been involved in the Australian psychedelic scene, playing roles in the charity sector, research with Psychae Institute, and is one of the researchers in the St. Vincent's Melbourne trial, Australia's first trial using psilocybin for end-of-life depression and anxiety. Diego gives his insight into the recent TGA re-scheduling of psilocybin and MDMA for treatment-resistant depression and post-traumatic stress disorder, respectively. They cover the details, unknowns, and concerns: Is there enough time to train enough people? Do they have the infrastructure for this? What are the substances actually going to be? What percentage of people who apply will be granted access? What will it cost? And while psychiatrists will be able to prescribe, how much will the program really focus on therapy?  And they discuss Vancouver's Filament Health creating the world's first ayahuasca pill, which is close to FDA authorization to begin a Phase 1 trial. Of course this news begs some questions as well, mainly: with psychedelic use being such an active experience, how much does something like this change our relationship to ayahuasca? And with a consistent, more predictable experience, does that kill the magic? www.psychedelicstoday.com

In this episode of Vital Psychedelic Conversations, Johanna takes the helm for the first time, hosting a conversation with Jungian analyst-in-training, writer, researcher, 5Rhythms® teacher, and Vital student: Mackenzie Amara; and clinical psychologist, long time PT collaborator, and Vital instructor: Dr. Ido Cohen. As this episode features three huge fans of Jung (Johanna wrote her Master's dissertation on The Red Book and teaches a course through PT), they focus less on education and the future of psychedelic therapy, and instead get pretty deep; shining a light on an integral part of psychedelia (and life) we often avoid: the shadow. What is the shadow and what is true shadow work? What did Jung give us, and why is Jungian psychology so relevant for integrating psychedelic experiences?  They discuss the notion of the unconscious as a place you can develop a relationship with and access by very different means; the idea of the healer as the container; the problematic binary of good vs. evil; the flawed concept of ego death; the differences between authentic and neurotic suffering and personal and collective consciousness; the archetype of the wounded healer and why facilitators should both be wounded and in the process of healing; and how wonderful it is that society is beginning to embrace the weird and what makes us unique.  There are no shortcuts in life and there is no "cure" for the parts of the human condition we aren't comfortable with, but in the capitalist, efficiency-above-all-else West, we aren't raised to sit with the unpleasant, and instead learn to seek a quick fix, which has created an environment where we've lost the ability to feel in the ways that we need to. Can you be with someone else's pain if you're running from your own? Can you have real compassion if you've never suffered? Can you be complete without knowing your shadow? www.psychedelicstoday.com

In this episode, Joe interviews artist Rupert Alexander Scriven, who, under his brand, Vintage Disco Biscuit, recently released "The Art of Ecstasy": a coffee table book of images of ecstasy tablets he collected for 25 years. www.psychedelicstoday.com

In this episode, David is joined by Director of Advocacy at the National Psychedelics Association, Kathryn L. Tucker, JD, who updates us on the 3 AIMS vs. the DEA cases, discussing what their outcome could mean for the future. www.psychedelicstoday.com

In this episode, Vital Psychedelic Conversations switches it up, with Kyle interviewing our Coordinator of Education and Training, Johanna Hilla, about 2022's inaugural edition of Vital. And what can students expect this year? www.psychedelicstoday.com

In this episode, Joe interviews Jessica "Jaz" Cadoch & Sovereign Oshumare: Co-Founders of ALKEMI, a consulting firm for psychedelic ethics and accountability. They discuss the Prop 122 conflict, what true access means, and more. www.psychedelicstoday.com

In this episode, Ph.D. candidate in Neuroscience, Manesh Girn joins new podcast voice, Julian Bost, to explain recent research we found confusing, and to discuss schizophrenia, inflammation and depression, and the ways we learn. www.psychedelicstoday.com

In this episode, David interviews Grof-certified Holotropic Breathwork® practitioner, author, developer of InnerEthics®, and Vital instructor: Kylea Taylor: M.S., LMFT; and therapist and Vital student: Shabina Hale.  www.psychedelicstoday.com

In this episode, Joe interviews Gina Gratza, MS, LMFT: Portland, OR-based research therapist and educator at InnerTrek, a psilocybin facilitator training program. She discusses MDMA, Burning Man, therapy, psilocybin, and more. www.psychedelicstoday.com

In this episode, David interviews clinical psychologist and Vital instructor, Dr. Dominique Morisano, and facilitator and Vital student, Jessika Lagarde, about their perspectives on psychedelic education, and of course, Vital.  www.psychedelicstoday.com

In this episode, David interviews Raad Seraj: host of Minority Trip Report, a podcast for underrepresented views in psychedelics/mental health, and founder of Mission Club, an education & investment platform. www.psychedelicstoday.com

In this episode, Joe is joined by Kyle, calling in from a retreat in Jamaica. They discuss data Concerns in Oregon, hopeful legalization in NH and Missouri, and Vital: the retreats, what students are saying, and the 5 elements. www.psychedelicstoday.com

In this episode, Kyle interviews researcher, writer, and one of the world's leading experts on 5-MeO-DMT, Dr. Malin Vedøy Uthaug. She discusses Heron's theory of catharsis, dietas, freediving, the mind-body connection, and more. www.psychedelicstoday.com

In this episode, Joe covers Prince Harry coming out of the psychedelic closet, Virginia lawmakers proposing the legalization of psilocybin, psychedelic legislation already in plans for nearly a dozen states in 2023, and more. www.psychedelicstoday.com

In this episode, Joe interviews neurobiologist, researcher, & author, Dr. Andrew R. Gallimore, who discusses his newest book: "Reality Switch Technologies", DMT, intravenous infusion pumps, John Mack, Terence McKenna, and more! www.psychedelicstoday.com

In this episode, David and Joe discuss Tryp Therapeutics researching psilocybin-assisted psychotherapy for I.B.S.; NY lawmakers pre-filing a bill to legalize natural psychedelics; and British Columbia decriminalizing drugs.  www.psychedelicstoday.com

In this episode, Kyle interviews author and board-certified psychiatric-mental health nurse practitioner, C.J. Spotswood. They discuss microdosing and why nurses could be the answer to the psychedelics and scalability problem. www.psychedelicstoday.com

In this episode, Joe and Kyle cover a study where psilocybin improved stress response; The Economist highlighting psychedelic medicine as a main story for 2023; and the Minnesota Medical Association endorsing decriminalization. www.psychedelicstoday.com

In this episode, David interviews internationally recognized Indigenous rights activist: Sutton King, MPH. She discusses the challenges Indigenous people continue to face from intergenerational trauma, and their resiliency. www.psychedelicstoday.com

In this episode, Joe and Kyle discuss concerns over Prop 122 and data privacy, the hopeful end to the sentencing disparity between crack cocaine and powder; and the cost vs. value problem of psychedelic therapy: is it worth it?  www.psychedelicstoday.com

In this episode, Joe interviews Zach Leary: author, facilitator, trainer, host of the MAPS podcast, and of course, son of psychedelic legend: Timothy Leary. They discuss Ram Dass, Michael Pollan, flotation tanks, and more. www.psychedelicstoday.com

In this episode, Joe & David discuss the DA dropping a felony drug charge against a Denver mushroom rabbi, the economics of psychedelic-assisted therapies, and the belief that most US states will legalize psychedelics by 2037.  www.psychedelicstoday.com

In this episode, Joe interviews New York Times best-selling author, pioneer in the field of integrative medicine, legend in the health and wellness space, and (somewhat surprising to us) psychedelic advocate, Andrew Weil, M.D.  www.psychedelicstoday.com

In this episode of Psychedelics Weekly, Joe and David discuss methylation and genetic memory; why the term, "The Psychedelic Renaissance" is problematic; and the importance of harm reduction – especially at music festivals. www.psychedelicstoday.com

In this episode, David interviews Sherry Rais: CEO/Co-Founder of Enthea, a benefit plan administrator offering psychedelic-assisted therapy as a benefit to interested employers. www.psychedelicstoday.com

In this episode, Joe and Alexa discuss our first conference-meets-festival, Convergence; a study looking at the potentiality of 5-MeO-DMT reactivation; and the story of a woman using cannabis as an adjunct treatment for cancer. www.psychedelicstoday.com

In this episode, Victoria interviews James Fadiman, Ph.D., Adam Bramlage, and Conor Murray, Ph.D, who discuss the benefits of microdosing and the first-ever take-home wireless EEG microdosing study (which you can be a part of).  www.psychedelicstoday.com

In this episode, David, Joe, (and in her first appearance) Alexa Jesse discuss The PACT Caucus and Breakthrough Therapies Act, Jim Harris overcoming paralyzation through psilocybin, and research on chronic pain and Alzheimer's.

In this episode, Kyle interviews Marc Aixalà, writer of "Psychedelic Integration: Psychotherapy for Non-Ordinary States of Consciousness." They discuss what integration truly is, and how it should be more personalized.  www.psychedelicstoday.com

In this episode of Psychedelics Weekly, David welcomes Jon Dennis, Esq. They discuss Colorado Prop 122 and Jon gives an update on Oregon's legal psilocybin as the Oregon Health Authority finalizes its proposed rules. www.psychedelicstoday.com

In this episode, David interviews Co-Medical Director of Nue Life, Dr. Ben Medrano. He discusses the risks, safety, and efficacy of at-home ketamine, Nue Life's recent study in Frontiers, and Nue Life's Nue Care program.  www.psychedelicstoday.com

In this inaugural episode of Psychedelics Weekly, Joe and Kyle are back together again to kick off a new weekly show. In this episode, they discuss the recent Wonderland controversy and Colorado Proposition 122. www.psychedelicstoday.com

In this Veteran's Day episode, Joe interviews two members of the Heroic Hearts Project: Founder/President, Jesse Gould, and Chief of Operations, Zach Riggle. They discuss their current studies, their new documentary, and more. www.psychedelicstoday.com

In this episode, Victoria interviews podcaster and comedian, Dennis Walker. He sees his platform, Mycopreneur, as "The Onion of the psychedelic space," and talks about the need for more satire in our increasingly serious lives. www.psychedelicstoday.com

In this episode, Joe interviews Canadian cannabis policy reform legend and long-time anti-drug war activist, Dana Larsen. They discuss prohibition, civil disobedience, and his Coca Leaf Cafe, where he sells coca tea and peyote.  www.psychedelicstoday.com

In this episode, Court Wing (Founder of REMAP Therapeutics) joins Joe in interviewing Joel Castellanos, MD, and Timothy Furnish, MD, of UC San Diego's Psychedelics and Health Research Initiative (PHRI).  www.psychedelicstoday.com

In this episode, Kyle interviews Dr. Steven Radowitz: Medical Director at Nushama, a wellness center in New York City primarily offering IV ketamine, with a strong focus on allowing an undisturbed, explorational journey. www.psychedelicstoday.com

In this episode, Joe interviews David Bronner, CEO of Dr. Bronner's, a top-selling natural soap brand. They discuss Colorado Proposition 122, a ballot initiative that would decriminalize several natural medicines in the state.  www.psychedelicstoday.com

In this episode, Joe interviews Dr. Rochelle Hines, Ph.D. and Dr. Dustin Hines, Ph.D.: Co-Founders of Tesselate Therapeutics, which is focused on the development and testing of novel psychedelic molecules.  www.psychedelicstoday.com

In this episode, Kyle interviews Dr. Jennifer Montjoy: psychiatric nurse practitioner specializing in ketamine-assisted psychotherapy, and Medical & Research Director at TRIPP; a 501(c)(3) psychedelic training organization. www.psychedelicstoday.com

In this episode, David interviews Jamie Wheal: author of Recapture the Rapture: Rethinking God, Sex and Death In a World That's Lost Its Mind, and Founder of performance research/training organization: the Flow Genome Project. www.psychedelicstoday.com

In this episode, Joe interviews Reggie Harris: Founder of Oakland Hyphae, which organizes events like the Hyphae Cup (previously the Psilocybin Cup), and performs psilocybin potency testing through Hyphae Labs.  www.psychedelicstoday.com

In this episode, Victoria interviews Cory Firth: Chief Storyteller at the Nikean Foundation, a non-profit passionate about storytelling, and aiming to build the largest collection of transformational psychedelic stories online. www.psychedelicstoday.com

In this episode, Joe interviews Jason Slot, Ph.D.: Associate Professor of Mycology and Evolutionary Genomics at Ohio State University. Slot discusses mushroom reproduction and what the science of evolutionary genomics entails. www.psychedelicstoday.com

In this episode, Joe interviews Stephanie Wang: Founder and CEO of KA! Empathogenics, which has created the first-ever supplement chew with the primary ingredient of kanna, a natural succulent plant with effects similar to MDMA. www.psychedelicstoday.com

In this episode, Joe interviews Sawyer Hurwitz: filmmaker and augmented reality collage artist who releases art under the name, Psychotronic Solutions. He also directed our new TV show, "Psychedelics Tonight" airing on ALTRD.TV. www.psychedelicstoday.com

In this episode, Kyle interviews Clinical Psychologist and Founder of the Psychedelic Society of Vermont, Dr. Rick Barnett, from a live event in Burlington, VT this past June. They discuss psychedelics' various contexts of use. www.psychedelicstoday.com

In this episode, David interviews Dr. Hans Eriksson: clinical psychiatrist and Chief Medical Officer at HMNC Brain Health, which is currently in Phase 2 trials for Ketabon, a non-dissociative, prolonged-release oral capsule.  www.psychedelicstoday.com

In this episode, Joe interviews Brom Rector: podcaster and founder of Empath Ventures, a venture capital fund that invests in psychedelic medicine startups. They discuss investment, IP, the psychedelic crash, ibogaine, and more. www.psychedelicstoday.com

In this episode, David interviews Founder of the People of Color Psychedelic Collective: Ifetayo Harvey. She talks about the racism of the drug war, the importance of caregiving, and what we can do collectively to make change. www.psychedelicstoday.com

In this episode, Joe interviews Laura Guzmán-Dávalos: 40-year veteran mycologist at the University of Guadalajara, Mexico; and daughter of Gaston Guzman, who most consider the world authority on the genus, Psilocybe.  www.psychedelicstoday.com

In this episode, Kyle interviews Doctors James Fadiman, Sam Gandy; and David Luke. They discuss Fadiman's past research and Gandy and Luke's new paper, "Psychedelics as potential catalysts of scientific creativity and insight." www.psychedelicstoday.com

In this episode, Joe interviews Alex Enchin & Ian-Michael Hébert, MA; Co-Founders of HOLOS, a company building hospitality wellness centers with a strong focus on community, reconnection to nature, and a return to wholeness. www.psychedelicstoday.com

In this episode, Joe interviews Seth Rosenberg: Washington DC-based mycologist and anti-drug war advocate who worked on DC's decriminalization Initiative 81, and who was presumably arrested for purchasing legal plants online.  www.psychedelicstoday.com

In this episode, David interviews Jim Gilligan: Interim CEO and Chief Scientific Officer of Tryp Therapeutics, a biotech company researching psychedelics for the treatment of eating disorders and nociplastic pain.  www.psychedelicstoday.com

In this episode, Joe interviews transformational coach and guide, Brenna Gebauer; in-person from her parents' RV at this year's Lightning in a Bottle festival, with facilitator and past guest, Mark Haberstroh stopping in too.  www.psychedelicstoday.com

In this episode, David interviews globally-recognized cannabis activist, author, entrepreneur, speaker, podcaster, and "Father of the Legal Cannabis Industry," Steve DeAngelo; discussing industry, decriminalization, and more! www.psychedelicstoday.com

In this episode, Joe interviews Christopher Koddermann: Co-Founder of the International Therapeutic Psilocybin Rescheduling Initiative (ITPRI). He discusses patents, IP, and what needs to be done to reschedule psilocybin.  www.psychedelicstoday.com

In this episode, David interviews Kevin Balktick: Founder & Director of Horizons; one of the world's longest-running psychedelic media and education communities, which is expanding to Portland, Oregon this year with Horizons NW. www.psychedelicstoday.com

In this episode, "Vital Psychedelic Conversations" returns with Kyle interviewing Steve Thayer: psychologist, Clinical Director of Education & Training at Novamind, and co-host of the Psychedelic Therapy Frontiers podcast.  www.psychedelicstoday.com

In this episode, David interviews Susan Beaulieu: Extension Educator at the University of Minnesota Extension, who works with her community (the Anishinaabe people) around intergenerational trauma and community resilience.  www.psychedelicstoday.com

In this episode, Joe interviews Soren Shade: producer of the third season of "Hamilton's Pharmacopeia" and Co-Founder of Top Tree Herbs, a kratom tea company dedicated to educating people about kratom and normalizing its use. www.psychedelicstoday.com

In this episode, Victoria Dekker debuts, interviewing the CEO of TheraPsil, Spencer Hawkswell, about the charter challenge that effectively sues the Canadian government for ending psilocybin exemptions for end-of-life patients. www.psychedelicstoday.com

In this episode, David interviews Monnica Williams, Ph.D. She discusses the mental health impact communities of color face as a result of racism; and what therapists, clinicians, and researchers can do to improve this paradigm. www.psychedelicstoday.com

In this episode, David interviews Joost Breeksema: Executive Director of the OPEN Foundation, which manages the Interdisciplinary Conference on Psychedelic Research (ICPR) which returns to Amsterdam this September 21-24. www.psychedelicstoday.com

In this episode, Joe interviews Kim Dudine: Chief of Staff at OpenNest Labs and Director of Membership and Strategy at Trailblazers Presents. She discusses the benefits, psychedelic nature, and unifying aspects of cannabis. www.psychedelicstoday.com

In this episode, Joe interviews Melissa Lavasani: Founder and Executive Director of the Psychedelic Medicine Coalition, proposer of DC's Initiative 81, and interviewee in Michael Pollan's "How to Change Your Mind" docuseries.  www.psychedelicstoday.com

In this episode, David interviews Lauren Katalinich & Anya Oleksiuk of the Psychedelic Society, a website/community that runs events and works to build the community so many people need after having a psychedelic experience. www.psychedelicstoday.com

In this episode, David interviews Sisi Li, Ph.D.: Data Architect for Porta Sophia; a non-profit online library collecting relevant prior art in the world of psychedelics for innovators and patent reviewers around the world.  www.psychedelicstoday.com

In this episode, Joe interviews Christopher Dawson & Andrew Galloway: Co-Founders and CEO/COO, respectively, of Dimensions; a company creating retreats blending traditional plant ceremony with modern science and 5-star luxury.  www.psychedelicstoday.com

In this episode, David interviews David Nutt: Psychiatrist, Founder/Chief Scientific Officer at Drug Science, Chief Research Officer at Awakn Life Sciences, and Professor of Neuropsychopharmacology at Imperial College London. www.psychedelicstoday.com

In this episode, Joe interviews T. Cody Swift, MFT, and Miriam Volat, MS; Co-Directors of The Riverstyx Foundation. They discuss plant medicine bioculture; peyote conservation, and working for the survival of Indigenous culture. www.psychedelicstoday.com

In this episode of the podcast, Joe interviews James Lanthier, the CEO of Mindset Pharma; a biotechnology company discovering and developing new (and hopefully safer, more predictable, and more palatable) psychedelic compounds. www.psychedelicstoday.com

In this episode, Joe interviews Julie Zukof: Head of Strategic Partnerships for Nue Life and the creator of Psychedelic Women, and Michelle Weiner: a double board-certified Doctor specializing in integrative pain management. www.psychedelicstoday.com

In this episode, Joe interviews Dick Simon: Co-Founder and CEO of Sensorium Therapeutics, an organization created to research plants we already know are effective and synthesize new ones. How can we best optimize what we know?  www.psychedelicstoday.com

In this bonus episode, Kyle interviews Dr. Scott Shannon: Co-Founder and CEO of the Board of Psychedelic Medicine and Therapies; a non-profit created to certify healthcare professionals in psychedelic-assisted psychotherapy.  www.psychedelicstoday.com

In this episode, Joe interviews Licensed Marriage & Family Therapist and Founder of Access To Doorways, Courtney Watson. Watson talks about ancestral practices, Diasporic religions, & trauma healing for QTBIPOC communities. www.psychedelicstoday.com

In this episode, David interviews Founder and Executive Director of MAPS, Rick Doblin, Ph.D. He discusses the abuse allegations unearthed in the recent "Cover Story" podcast series, real-world evidence, and MAPS' future goals.  www.psychedelicstoday.com

In this episode, David interviews clinical psychologist and Founder of the Psychedelic Society of Vermont, Dr. Rick Barnett. He discusses addiction, recovery, spirituality, and the Psychedelic Science & Spirituality Summit. www.psychedelicstoday.com

In this episode of the podcast, Joe interviews Philip Wolf: Founder of the "elevated dining" company, Cultivating Spirits. His new project is CashoM; an education platform for cannabis consumers, from beginners to connoisseurs. www.psychedelicstoday.com

In this episode of the podcast, Joe interviews the Founder of Personal Plants: Amanda Reiman, Ph.D., MSW. She discusses our connection to plants and the endless possibilities of cryptocurrencies, NFTs, and other Web3 projects.  www.psychedelicstoday.com

In this episode of the podcast, Kyle interviews Dr. Reid Robison and Steve Thayer, Ph.D.: CMO (Robison) and Clinical Director of Education & Training (Thayer) at Novamind, and hosts of the Psychedelic Therapy Frontiers podcast. www.psychedelicstoday.com

In this episode of the podcast, Joe interviews retired Nurse Practitioner, Midwife, and Air Force Captain, Kimberly Juroviesky. She discusses ketamine, Complex Regional Pain Syndrome, and her goals with her Ketamine Task Force. www.psychedelicstoday.com

In this episode of the podcast, Joe interviews Lyle Maxson: Co-Founder and Chief Strategy Officer of Entheo Digital, a "technodelic" company working with VR and digital therapeutics to explore how technology can help us.   www.psychedelicstoday.com

In this episode of the podcast, David interviews former journalist and Founder/CEO of The New Health Club, Anne Philippi. She discusses non-linear healing, intergenerational trauma, and how psychedelics can heal the workforce. www.psychedelicstoday.com

In this episode of the podcast, Joe interviews Kole, who was famously arrested for growing mushrooms in Denver back in 2020 – shortly after psilocybin had been decriminalized there. He talks about his arrest and trust.  www.psychedelicstoday.com

In this episode of the podcast, Joe sat down for a live recording with the team from Umbo Mushrooms: Unlimited Sciences founder, Del Jolly; Former UFC champion, Rashad Evans; and 10-year NFL veteran quarterback, Jake Plummer. www.psychedelicstoday.com

In this episode of the podcast, Joe interviews Jason Grechanik; a tabaquero running plant dietas, ayahuasca ceremony facilitator, and host of "The Universe Within" podcast. They discuss shamanism, dietas, breathwork, and more! www.psychedelicstoday.com

In this episode of Vital Psychedelic Conversations, David interviews philosopher, clinical psychologist, and Co-Founder of Dreamshadow Group: Lenny Gibson, Ph.D. They discuss shamanism, Greek mythology, Whitehead, and more! www.psychedelicstoday.com

In this episode of the podcast, David interviews Dr. Dominique Morisano: clinical psychologist and Co-Founder of the upcoming conference, "From Research to Reality: Global Summit on Psychedelic-Assisted Therapies and Medicine." www.psychedelicstoday.com

In this episode of Vital Psychedelic Conversations, Kyle interviews Daniel McQueen, MA: author of "Psychedelic Cannabis" and Executive Director of the Center for Medicinal Mindfulness. They discuss self-care, cannabis, and more! www.psychedelicstoday.com

In this episode of the podcast, Joe interviews Holotropic Breathwork® facilitator, Christine Calvert, LCDC. They discuss the many facets of the holotropic paradigm, the nuance of touch, the ethics of spaceholding, and more.  www.psychedelicstoday.com

In this Earth Day episode of the podcast, Joe interviews publisher, ecologist, planetary steward, and co-owner of Synergetic Press, Deborah Snyder. They discuss Biosphere 2 and how psychedelics and ecological spaces overlap. www.psychedelicstoday.com

In this episode of the podcast, Joe speaks in-person with chemist and drug researcher, William Leonard Pickard; famous for being sentenced to two life sentences in 2004 for the alleged manufacture of 90% of the world's LSD.  www.psychedelicstoday.com

In this episode of Vital Psychedelic Conversations, David interviews certified death doula and founder of the Diaspora Psychedelic Society, Omar Thomas. They discuss psychedelics and parenting; investing in Jamaica; and death. www.psychedelicstoday.com

In this episode of the podcast, David interviews lawyer and activist, Jon Dennis, Esq. Dennis has been heavily involved in Oregon's Measure 109, and discusses his proposed framework for protecting religious freedom and access. www.psychedelicstoday.com

In this episode of Vital Psychedelic Conversations, Kyle interviews clinical psychologist, Dr. Ido Cohen. They discuss integration and how commitment to ourselves through the process can lead to long-lasting, sustainable change. www.psychedelicstoday.com

In this episode of the podcast, Joe interviews Special Counsel at Emerge Law Group, Kathryn Tucker, JD, who has been protecting the rights of the terminally ill for 35 years and was part of the team behind Oregon's Measure 109.  www.psychedelicstoday.com

In this episode of Vital Psychedelic Conversations, Kyle interviews Senior Lead of Psychedelic Programs with Numinus Wellness, Dr. Devon Christie. She talks about biomedical ethics, mindfulness, and informed consent and touch.  www.psychedelicstoday.com

In this episode of the podcast, Joe interviews spirit healer, geomancer, and author of the new book, "Journeys With Plant Spirits: Plan Consciousness Healing & Natural Magic Practices," Emma Farrell. www.psychedelicstoday.com

In this episode of Vital Psychedelic Conversations, Kyle interviews professor of anthropology and historian, Jerry B. Brown, Ph.D., who co-authored "The Psychedelic Gospels: The Secret History of Hallucinogens in Christianity." www.psychedelicstoday.com

In this episode of the podcast, Joe interviews Adam Bramlage: Founder and CEO of Flow State Micro, a functional mushroom company and microdosing educational platform. He discusses historic use (and microdosing) of psychedelics.  www.psychedelicstoday.com

In this episode of Vital Psychedelic Conversations, Kyle interviews Dr. Adele Lafrance: psychologist, author, researcher, and developer of Emotion-Focused Family Therapy, which focuses on the role of family in psychedelic work. www.psychedelicstoday.com

In this episode of the podcast, David interviews Chief of Staff and Head of Operations at Nue Life, Kabir Ali. Ali discusses ketamine-assisted therapy, addiction, health coaching, and the overlooked gift of self-love. www.psychedelicstoday.com

In this episode of Vital Psychedelic Conversations, Kyle and David interview the author of "No Bad Parts: Healing Trauma and Restoring Wholeness with the Internal Family Systems Model" and IFS creator: Dr. Richard C. Schwartz.  www.psychedelicstoday.com

In this episode of the podcast, Joe interviews Ed Prideaux: UK-based journalist working to raise awareness around Hallucinogen Persisting Perception Disorder (HPPD) in affiliation with the Perception Restoration Foundation.  www.psychedelicstoday.com

In this episode of Vital Psychedelic Conversations, Kyle interviews clinical psychologist, writer and researcher, Michael Sapiro. They discuss the importance of continued training, when to intervene, and mainstreaming mysticism. www.psychedelicstoday.com

In this episode of the podcast, Kyle interviews Laura Mae Northrup, LMFT: educator, podcaster, somatic psychotherapist, and author of "Radical Healership: How to Build a Values-Driven Healing Practice in a Profit-Driven World."  www.psychedelicstoday.com

In this episode of Vital Psychedelic Conversations, Kyle interviews researcher, author, and Co-Founder/Director of the Breaking Convention conference: Dr. David Luke. He discusses DMT entity encounters and the transpersonal.  www.psychedelicstoday.com

In this episode of the podcast, Joe interviews author and Professor of Neuroscience at Universidade Federal do Rio Grande do Norte in Brazil: Sidarta Ribeiro. They discuss dreams, set and setting, LSD, jurema, and biopiracy.  www.psychedelicstoday.com

In this episode of Vital Psychedelic Conversations, David interviews two Vital teachers from The Center for Optimal Living in NYC; Founder/Director, Andrew Tatarsky, Ph.D., and Juliana Mulligan: Psychedelic Program Coordinator. www.psychedelicstoday.com

In this episode of the podcast, Joe and Kyle finally interview one of their all-time heroes: Stanislav Grof, MD, Ph.D., who joins them with his wife and collaborator (and co-creator of Grof® Legacy Training), Brigitte Grof, MA.  www.psychedelicstoday.com

In this episode of Vital Psychedelic Conversations, Kyle interviews Sam Gandy: researcher and Ph.D. ecologist who is most interested in the capacity of psychedelics to amplify or ignite our relationship with nature. www.psychedelicstoday.com

In this episode of the podcast, Joe interviews Rick Tarnas and Sean Kelly, Ph.D., coeditors of Psyche Unbound: Essays in Honor of Stanislav Grof, a new collection of 22 essays from the last 50 years on the impact of Grof's work. www.psychedelicstoday.com

In this episode of Vital Psychedelic Conversations, Kyle interviews author and breathwork practitioner, Kylea Taylor, MS, LMFT. She discusses breathwork, spiritual emergency, her InnerEthics® program, and dreams about tripping. www.psychedelicstoday.com

In this episode of the podcast, Joe interviews Co-Founder and CEO of Numinus, Payton Nyquvest, who talks about chronic pain, ayahuasca, Health Canada's Special Access Program, the importance of a therapeutic container, and more. www.psychedelicstoday.com

In this episode of the podcast, Joe interviews Greg McKee: Chairman and CEO of Tryp Therapeutics, an early-stage biotech company researching the use of psilocybin derivatives to alleviate nociplastic pain like fibromyalgia.   www.psychedelicstoday.com

In this episode of the podcast, Joe interviews Clinical Professor at the University of Florida, College of Pharmacy, Oliver Grundmann, Ph.D., in what is essentially an "everything you could want to know" episode about kratom. www.psychedelicstoday.com

In this episode of the podcast, Kyle interviews Annie & Michael Mithoefer for the 2nd edition of Vital Psychedelic Conversations. They cover breathwork, trusting the process, the inner healer, and updates on new trials for 2022. www.psychedelicstoday.com

In this episode of the podcast, Joe interviews Josh Hardman, Founder and Editor of Psilocybin Alpha; a news website and weekly newsletter covering the psychedelic space with a focus on emerging companies and drug development.  www.psychedelicstoday.com

In this episode of the podcast, Kyle interviews Joe Tafur, MD, in the first episode of a new series featuring teachers from Vital, our new 12-month certificate program. Tafur discusses Indigenous wisdom and the transpersonal. www.psychedelicstoday.com

In this episode of the podcast, Kyle and David interview Andrew Penn: nurse practitioner, Associate Clinical Professor, and Co-founder of OPENurses; a professional organization for nurses interested in psychedelic research.  www.psychedelicstoday.com

In this episode of the podcast, Joe interviews Jonathan Sabbagh, co-founder and CEO of Journey Clinical, which is a telehealth platform that helps approved therapists integrate KAP (and other modalities) into their practices. www.psychedelicstoday.com

In this episode of the podcast, Joe revisits the topic of religion and psychedelics with a Priest and Rabbi both very interested in using religion to frame the mystical: Rabbi Zac Kamenetz and Episcopal priest, Hunt Priest. www.psychedelicstoday.com

In this episode of the podcast, Joe interviews D.C.-based attorney and Executive Director of the Association of Entheogenic Practitioners, Danny Peterson. They discuss psychedelics, religion, and freedom in the United States.  www.psychedelicstoday.com

In this episode of the podcast, Joe interviews 2 hosts of fellow long-running psychedelics podcast, Entheogen: Joe Zap and Kevin W. They discuss the early days of cannabis, Timothy Leary, gurus, conspiracies, and more.  www.psychedelicstoday.com

In this week's Solidarity Fridays episode, Joe and Kyle discuss Colorado possibly legalizing several drugs through the Natural Medicine Healing Act, and CO also establishing guidelines around EMTs and ketamine administration.  www.psychedelicstoday.com

In this episode of the podcast, Joe interviews Ayize Jama-Everett, Courtney Watson, Leticia Brown, and Kufikiri Imara of A Table of Our Own: a for-Black-people by-Black-people psychedelic conference and documentary. www.psychedelicstoday.com

In this week's Solidarity Fridays episode, Joe and Kyle dive into all things microdosing: Why people are doing it, possible negative effects, how it could work with pain, and more. And they discuss good outcomes in therapy.  www.psychedelicstoday.com

In this episode of the podcast, Kyle interviews Ryan Zurrer, Founder and Managing Director of Vine Ventures, a psychedelic-focused venture fund which just announced an SPV with MAPS called the Regenerative Financing Vine. www.psychedelicstoday.com

In this week's Solidarity Fridays episode, David interviews Co-founder and CMO of Awakn Life Sciences, Dr. Ben Sessa, and then David and Kyle interview Director, CEO, and Chairman of Mydecine Innovations Group, Josh Bartch.  www.psychedelicstoday.com

In this episode, Joe interviews 17-year veteran of federal policy and founder of Healing Equity and Liberation (HEAL) Organization, Micah Haskell-Hoehl. He discusses HEAL's goals and his path to federal policy and psychedelics. www.psychedelicstoday.com

In this week's Solidarity Fridays episode, Joe and Kyle address some tweets and discuss ketamine and mysticism, then Joe interviews CEO of MINDCURE, Kelsey Ramsden, about MINDCURE's 2 main pieces: iSTRYM and the Desire Project. www.psychedelicstoday.com

In this episode, Joe and Kyle interview author, James Fadiman, Ph.D. He talks about the birth of transpersonal psychology, microdosing, and his newest book, "Your Symphony of Selves: Discover and Understand More of Who We Are." www.psychedelicstoday.com

In this week's Solidarity Fridays episode, Joe and Kyle discuss Mike Tyson and toads, then Joe and David interview Payton Nyquvest of Numinus, who talks about ayahuasca, chronic pain, integration, reciprocity, and psilocybin.  www.psychedelicstoday.com

In this episode, Joe and Kyle interview CEO & Co-founder of Nue Life, Juan Pablo Cappello. He discusses his entrepreneurial past, the psychedelic gold rush, and how Nue Life will use digital phenotyping to personalize health. www.psychedelicstoday.com

In this week's Solidarity Fridays episode, Joe and David speak with CEO & Director of BetterLife Pharma, Ahmad Doroudian, about 2-Bromo-LSD, and then David interviews Chief Medical Officer at Wesana Health, Abid Nazeer.  www.psychedelicstoday.com

In this episode, Joe interviews Erica Rex: writer and participant in one of the first trials using psilocybin to treat cancer-related depression. She discusses the study and tells stories of spontaneous mystical experiences. www.psychedelicstoday.com

In this episode, Joe sits down with three veteran friends for a special Veterans Day episode. They discuss the difficulties of military life, drug use, and how psychedelics have helped them transition back into civilian life. www.psychedelicstoday.com

In this week's Solidarity Fridays episode, Joe and Kyle briefly check in from Miami to reflect on the Wonderland and Meet Delic conferences they just attended. They also discuss Compass Pathways' recent research outcomes. www.psychedelicstoday.com

In this episode, Joe and Kyle interview famed anthropologist and author (most notably of The Cosmic Serpent), Jeremy Narby. He discusses anthropology in the Amazon and ayahuasca: the entourage effect, vine-only, DMT, and more.  www.psychedelicstoday.com

In this episode, Joe interviews Dr. Rachel Yehuda: neuroscientist, researcher, Professor and Vice Chair of Psychiatry at the Icahn School of Medicine at Mount Sinai. She discusses research trials and the future of neuroscience. www.psychedelicstoday.com

In this episode, Joe interviews Adam Strauss: writer, performer, and comedian. Strauss discusses OCD and how he's learned to manage his with psilocybin, which he documents in his one-man show, "The Mushroom Cure."  www.psychedelicstoday.com

In this week's Solidarity Fridays episode, Joe and Kyle discuss their conflicts with what to do about the recent accusations of abuse against two prominent figures in this space by friend of the show, Will Hall.  www.psychedelicstoday.com

In this episode, Joe sits down with chemist, filmmaker, and science journalist Hamilton Morris. They discuss his time at Vice, PCP, "Hamilton's Pharmacopeia," 5-MeO-DMT, and working with perceived enemies for the greater good.  www.psychedelicstoday.com

In this week's Solidarity Fridays episode, Joe sits down with entrepreneur, veteran of the cannabis industry, and CEO at Microdose; Patrick Moher, who discusses their massive psychedelic expo, November 8-9 in Miami: Wonderland. www.psychedelicstoday.com

In this episode, Joe interviews Rebecca Kronman, LCSW: therapist, writer, and founder of Plant Parenthood. They discuss psychedelics and pregnancy; affinity groups; justice disparity; and how to disclose drug use to your kids.  www.psychedelicstoday.com

In this week's Solidarity Fridays episode, Kyle interviews integration specialist and legal psychedelic guide, Liam Farquhar. They discuss trauma, somatics, IFS, consciousness, breathwork, and the Newtonian-Cartesian paradigm.  www.psychedelicstoday.com

In this episode, which is a bit of an overview of our new course, Kyle interviews anthropologist, author, ethnomycologist, and co-designer of said course, "Psychedelics: Past, Present, and Future": Jerry B. Brown, Ph.D. www.psychedelicstoday.com

In this week's Solidarity Fridays episode, Joe and Kyle discuss recent decriminalization news in Seattle and Santa Cruz, the debates on how to handle mescaline-containing cacti, Hamilton Morris, prohibition, and the Dark Web.  www.psychedelicstoday.com

In this episode, Joe interviews Jessica Cadoch, MA: Medical Anthropologist and Research Manager at Maya PBC. She talks about 12-step programs and psychedelics, drug exceptionalism, and cooperation between non- and for-profits. www.psychedelicstoday.com

In this week's Solidarity Fridays episode, Kyle Buller discusses Hulu's show, Nine Perfect Strangers with previous guest, Dr. Ido Cohen. www.psychedelicstoday.com

In this episode, Joe interviews teacher, coach, facilitator, and podcaster, Gibrán Rivera. They talk about the importance and benefits of group process, the spectrum of healing, and the poles of masculinity and femininity.  www.psychedelicstoday.com

In this week's Solidarity Fridays episode, Joe and Kyle sit down and tackle a question we are often asked at Psychedelics Today: "How do I get involved in the psychedelic field?"   www.psychedelicstoday.com

In this episode, Joe and Kyle celebrate 9/20 by talking with friend, writer, and Editor in Chief of the blog, Michelle Janikian. She talks about rituals, reconnection to family, and her book, Your Psilocybin Mushroom Companion.  www.psychedelicstoday.com

In this week's Solidarity Fridays episode, Joe and Kyle are joined by Founder and President of the Heroic Hearts Project, Jesse Gould. They discuss veterans, PTSD, Afghanistan, SB519, Measure 109, and the importance of context.  www.psychedelicstoday.com

In this episode, Kyle interviews psychiatrist, co-founder/CEO of Brooklyn Minds, and co-host of the Clubhouse show, New Frontiers: Carlene MacMillan, M.D. They discuss Spravato, insurance, and the importance of infrastructure.  www.psychedelicstoday.com

In this week's Solidarity Fridays episode, Joe and Kyle sit down for a discussion spanning spiritual emergence, the transpersonal, and a simple but huge question around psychedelics and self-work: What exactly is healing? www.psychedelicstoday.com

In this episode, Joe interviews Dr. Tiago Reis Marques: Psychiatrist at the Maudsley Hospital, lecturer, and CEO of Pasithea; a biotech company developing new drugs, repurposing old ones, and offering at-home ketamine infusions. www.psychedelicstoday.com

In this episode, Joe and Kyle reflect on the birth of Solidarity Fridays, discuss SB-519, possession limits, and Decriminalize Nature, analyze religion, and dig into the scalability of drugs vs. its effect on the environment.  www.psychedelicstoday.com

In this episode, Michelle and Kyle interview PhD candidate and return guest, Benjamin Mudge (PTSF59), who talks about the challenges and possible paths forward to creating an ayahuasca protocol for people with bipolar disorder.  www.psychedelicstoday.com

In this week's Solidarity Fridays episode, Joe and Kyle respond to a barrage of negative comments from Decriminalize Nature and some of their supporters from a recent Instagram post promoting PTSF74 with Ismail L. Ali from MAPS. www.psychedelicstoday.com

In this episode, Kyle interviews Dr. Devon Christie and Will Siu, MD, DPhil, co-investigators on a study investigating MDMA-assisted therapy for fibromyalgia. They talk the mind-body connection, fascia, somatics, and PTSD.  www.psychedelicstoday.com

In this week's Solidarity Fridays episode, Joe and Kyle talk about the origins of Psychedelics Today, breathwork, transpersonal psychology, reincarnation, healing as a side effect of exploration, archetypal astrology, and more! www.psychedelicstoday.com

In this episode, Kyle and Michelle interview Manesh Girn: Ph.D. candidate in Neuroscience. They discuss neuroplasticity and how psychedelics affect the neurocognitive processes behind thought, flexibility, and creativity.  www.psychedelicstoday.com

In this week's Solidarity Fridays episode, Joe and Kyle are joined by lawyer and lead Policy Council at MAPS, Ismail L. Ali, who digs into SB-519 in great depth: how MAPS has been involved, why the bill has changed, and more!   www.psychedelicstoday.com

In this episode, Michelle and Joe interview Robin Divine: writer and creator of Black People Trip: an online community with a mission to raise awareness and create safe spaces for Black women interested in psychedelics.    www.psychedelicstoday.com

In this week's Solidarity Fridays episode, Joe and Kyle discuss Michael Pollan's books, Numinus, opium, The Psychae Institute, sexual ethics within the facilitator-experiencer relationship, and our mistrust of big pharma.   www.psychedelicstoday.com

In this episode, Joe interviews author and assistant professor in Philosophy, Cosmology, and Consciousness at the California Institute of Integral Studies, Matthew Segall. They discuss consciousness, philosophy, and capitalism.    www.psychedelicstoday.com

In this week's Solidarity Fridays episode, Kyle and David discuss depth psychology, James Hillman, the idea of attempting to measure soul with science, the reach of the DEA, Soul Quest, psilocybin, lawmaking progress, and more. www.psychedelicstoday.com

In this episode, Joe interviews psychedelic-focused freelance writer Jasmine Virdi, who has written for PT and Chacruna. They talk about peyote conservation, 5-MeO-DMT, Covid, environmental impact, neurodivergence, and more.     www.psychedelicstoday.com

In this week's Solidarity Fridays episode, Joe and David review SB-519 again, discuss a study that measured increased well-being and the difficulty of how to define that, and talk about the importance of embracing the weird.   www.psychedelicstoday.com