Description: In this live, wide-ranging conversation, Jen Hatmaker is joined by bestselling author and civic educator Sharon McMahon (Sharon Says So) for an honest, funny, and deeply grounding discussion about truth, courage, faith, and what it means to stay awake in uncertain times. Beginning with Sharon joining Jen on stage, the two explore everything from dating after divorce and the wisdom of grandmothers, to how fear and misinformation shape our public life. They reflect on history as a guide, the importance of joy as resistance, and why living fully—especially in anxious seasons—is not a betrayal of others’ suffering. Jen also shares hard-won insight about friendship in midlife, faith after certainty, and the real cost of telling the truth. Together, Jen and Sharon remind us that while waking up is disruptive, staying asleep costs more—and that we don’t have to navigate this moment alone. Thought-provoking Quotes: “You are not helping anybody by being paralyzed in a state of fear and joylessness.”— Sharon McMahon “There have been people who came before us who lived through so much—and they left their lanterns on the path.” — Sharon McMahon “You do not owe the world a state of paralyzation and fear.”— Sharon McMahon  “One friend can love you back to life. One is enough.” — Jen Hatmaker “Too hard is living asleep at the wheel.”— Jen Hatmaker  “I don’t see good fruit from this tree.”  — Jen Hatmaker  “God is not constrained to a building. I didn’t lose Jesus.” — Jen Hatmaker Resources Mentioned in This Episode:                  ➢ Awake by Jen Hatmaker ➢ Me Talk Pretty One Day by David Sedaris ➢ The Middle Place by Kelly Corrigan ➢ Works by Anne Lamott ➢ Harriet Tubman (historical reference) Guest’s Links: Sharon’s Website– https://sharonmcmahon.com/  Sharon’s Instagram –  https://www.instagram.com/sharonsaysso Sharon’s Substack –  https://thepreamble.com/ Sharon’s Podcast – https://sharonmcmahon.com/podcast Connect with Jen!Jen’s Website - https://jenhatmaker.com/ Jen’s Instagram - https://instagram.com/jenhatmakerJen’s Twitter - https://twitter.com/jenHatmaker/ Jen’s Facebook - https://facebook.com/jenhatmakerJen’s YouTube - https://www.youtube.com/user/JenHatmaker The For the Love Podcast is presented by Audacy.  To learn more about listener data and our privacy practices visit: https://www.audacyinc.com/privacy-policy Learn more about your ad choices. Visit https://podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Description:Today’s guest is someone who instantly made an impression on Jen when they met at a recent Hello Sunshine event in LosAngeles, when she moderated a Shine Away panel with Jen and beloved 9010 star and recent For the Love guest, Jennie Garth. Within five minutes Jen thought, “Okay… she’s one of us.” Warm, sharp, steady — Kanika Chadda-Gupta has this grounding presence that makes a whole room exhale. An award-winning former CNN journalist and producer, Kanika built a thriving career in television news before motherhood rerouted her life in the most profound way. Born in India and raised in the U.S., her story is braided with themes so many of us know intimately: immigration and bicultural identity, the expectations women inherit, the invisible labor we carry, and the endless negotiation between ambition, caregiving, and our own becoming. Today, Kanika is the creator and host of the beloved Total Mom Sense podcast, where she distills her lived experience — raising children while caring for aging parents, navigating mental and emotional load, reinventing purpose in midlife — into practical wisdom for women who are doing it all and feeling all of it. In this conversation, we talk about what happens when life asks us to reevaluate our pace, our priorities, and the stories we’ve been handed about success. We discuss staying rooted inside seasons of huge responsibility, finding yourself in the middle of caregiving, and reclaiming a sense of agency and identity in motherhood and beyond. If you’ve ever felt stretched thin between generations, pulled in every direction, or unsure how to follow your own calling while caring for everyone else — Kanika’s clarity and compassion will feel like a deep breath. This one’s for all of us standing at the intersection of who we were, who we are, and who we’re still becoming. Thought-provoking Quotes: "I like getting the gold star from all of my teachers. I did all the AP classes. I hung out with my teachers at lunchtime. We had open lunch, and it was like you could go to McDonald's, or you could go across the street to the pizza place. But I would go sit with Ms. Townsend, my biology teacher, and just kick it.” – Kanika Chadda-Gupta "It may be, the only headlights that you see heading to the eye of the storm are the first responders and the reporters. And I thought, I want to be in the eye of the storm. I belong here. I need to be here. I need to prove myself. And so then I stayed.” – Kanika Chadda-Gupta "I was most surprised by how your kids will make you face your childhood trauma head on. My dad and I get along great now, but when we were younger, he would say things that really just shot my self-esteem. And those are the first things that come up when my kids do something wrong and I'm like, wow, I gotta reframe." – Kanika Chadda-Gupta Resources Mentioned in This Episode: Hello Sunshine Shine Away Conference 2025 – https://shineaway.hello-sunshine.com/event/eddb3575-ec80-4812-a371-354c900d7cbf/summary Jim Gaffigan, comedian – https://www.jimgaffigan.com/ Mom Brain with Hilaria Baldwin and Daphne Oz - https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/mom-brain/id1438292826 Guest’s Links: Website - https://kanikachaddagupta.com/ Instagram - https://www.instagram.com/kanikachaddagupta/ Twitter - https://x.com/KanikaChadda Facebook - https://www.facebook.com/kanikachaddagupta/ Youtube - https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCgkOq_AmLsvu6YJsKglQvSw TikTok - https://www.tiktok.com/@kanikachaddagupta?lang=en Pinterest - https://www.pinterest.com/kanikachaddagupta/ Podcast - https://kanikachaddagupta.com/podcast/ Connect with Jen!Jen’s Website - https://jenhatmaker.com/ Jen’s Instagram - https://instagram.com/jenhatmakerJen’s Twitter - https://twitter.com/jenHatmaker/ Jen’s Facebook - https://facebook.com/jenhatmakerJen’s YouTube - https://www.youtube.com/user/JenHatmaker The For the Love Podcast is presented by Audacy.  To learn more about listener data and our privacy practices visit: https://www.audacyinc.com/privacy-policy Learn more about your ad choices. Visit https://podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Description:Peace can feel elusive — globally, socially, personally. So what does it look like to reclaim it? And how do we rise when everything feels beyond dead? In this encore episode, we look back on one of our most galvanizing conversations from our For the Love of Peace series with Father James Martin — Jesuit priest, bestselling author, and one of the most trusted spiritual voices in America. Together, Jen and Father Martin explore what a centuries-old story still teaches us today. Rooted in the raising of Lazarus, their discussion unfolds into a modern invitation: What are we willing to let die so that we can live? Drawing on grief, mystery, advocacy, and the disruptive tenderness of Jesus, this conversation reaches for peace in the places that feel buried — in the church, in our communities, in ourselves. They talk candidly about: why Jesus still disorients us (and why that’s good) the comfort and challenge of real resurrection why faith should push us toward the margins, not away from them and how letting old patterns die brings us closer to peace If you’re hungry for spiritual clarity, exhausted by harmful religion, or longing for a God who feels like a deep breath — this episode is a balm. Father Martin’s humanity and integrity remind us what faith can still be: hopeful, liberating, trustworthy. May this encore meet you where you are — in grief, confusion, curiosity, or longing — and call you to come forth into peace, presence, and new life. Thought-provoking Quotes: “We’re called to reach out to people who feel—and who are—marginalized and excluded. That’s pretty clear in the gospels. For Jesus there’s no ‘us and them,’ there’s just ‘us.’ He’s about making the community into an us.” — Father James Martin “Jesus is fully human and fully divine. And it’s the fully human part that a lot of people have a hard time with. He weeps, he gets frustrated, he gets tired — and we have to keep those two things in tension, because if we lose sight of either one we risk not really understanding who he is.”— Father James Martin “What are the things in my life — patterns, behaviors, resentments — that I have to let die? What do I want to leave in the tomb? And can I trust that God is calling me to something new?” — Father James Martin “So much of the Christian message is forgiveness — letting resentment, bitterness, and grudges die. That does lead to peace. ‘Peace be with you’ isn’t just comfort — it’s invitation, it’s transformation, it’s listening to God and letting things go.”— Father James Martin Resources Mentioned in This Episode: Inspired: Slaying Giants, Walking on Water, and Loving the Bible Again by Rachel Held Evans - https://amzn.to/494t9Uo The Jesuit Guide to (Almost) Everything: A Spirituality for Real Life by Father James Martin - https://amzn.to/3Kn8KAI Learning to Pray: A Guide for Everyone by Father James Martin – https://amzn.to/44nfAwK Transgender People Can Be Baptized Catholic  Reuters Article – https://www.reuters.com/world/transsexuals-can-be-baptized-catholic-serve-godparents-vatican-says-2023-11-08/ Come Forth: The Promise of Jesus’s Greatest Miracle by Father James Martin – https://amzn.to/3KS1c9a Mary Karr – https://www.marykarr.com/   The Seven Storey Mountain byThomas Merton – https://amzn.to/44TmdXL Dorothy Day — https://www.dorothydayguild.org/dorothy-day7ce4a03b Guest’s Links: Instagram - https://www.instagram.com/jamesmartinsj/?hl=en Twitter - https://x.com/JamesMartinSJ Facebook - https://www.facebook.com/FrJamesMartin/ TikTok - https://www.tiktok.com/@jamesmartinsj?lang=en Connect with Jen!Jen’s Website - https://jenhatmaker.com/ Jen’s Instagram - https://instagram.com/jenhatmakerJen’s Twitter - https://twitter.com/jenHatmaker/ Jen’s Facebook - https://facebook.com/jenhatmakerJen’s YouTube - https://www.youtube.com/user/JenHatmaker The For the Love Podcast is presented by Audacy.  To learn more about listener data and our privacy practices visit: https://www.audacyinc.com/privacy-policy Learn more about your ad choices. Visit https://podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Description:Today we’re talking to someone whose work really hits right where we live this year — in that messy middle space where you know you need joy, but you’re not totally sure how to find your way back to it. Sarah Catherine “SC” Perot created Styles of Joy, which is genuinely one of the most grounding, practical, soul-forward frameworks we’ve encountered in a long time.  SC is an author, speaker, Vanderbilt professor, and self-proclaimed joy enthusiast whose work explores how we reclaim joy in seasons of transition, loss, rebuilding, and reinvention. Her debut book blends personal storytelling, cultural observation, and her CAPS Framework—Cultivate, Adopt, Protect, and Spread—a blueprint for understanding how joy works in us, around us, and through us. In this conversation, we talk about reclaiming joy after difficult seasons, the identity shifts that come with major life transitions, the science and soulfulness of joy, and why small, daily practices matter more than we think. SC brings brilliance, compassion, and practicality to a topic that often feels elusive, reminding us that joy isn’t something we “earn” — it’s something we can cultivate and choose, even in the midst of imperfect lives. If you’ve been craving a reset, a reorientation, or just a little more light in your day, this episode is a beautiful place to begin. Thought-provoking Quotes: “Music is like a scent that can transport us back in time. We have so many memories bookmarked in our heads.” – SC Perot “Joy can meet us in our quiet moments. It can meet us at a concert in a room full of people drowned in confetti. And it can meet us anywhere in between.” – SC Perot “The heat I was getting in my DMs, people are saying, have you lost your mind? You used to be on the straight and narrow. What has happened to you? What is with the feather boas?” – SC Perot “If we know we can tee ourselves up for productivity and if we know we can tee ourselves up for healthy decision making, why would we also not give joy a shot first thing in the morning?” – SC Perot “Joy can start small, just as hope does.” – SC Perot Resources Mentioned in This Episode: Styles of Joy: A Feel-Good Framework for Rediscovering Joy (with a Twist!) by SC Perot – https://amzn.to/48yUooy Harry Styles – https://www.hstyles.co.uk/ The Joy Hotline – https://www.scperot.com/joy-hotline/ Make Your Bed: Little Things That Can Change Your Life...And Maybe the World by Admiral William H. McRaven – https://amzn.to/4oC3iYK Unlocking the Secrets of Consciousness and Telepathy: Ky Dickens and The Telepathy Tapes - https://jenhatmaker.com/podcasts/series-64/unlocking-the-secrets-of-consciousness-and-telepathy-ky-dickens-and-the-telepathy-tapes/ Jen Hatmaker | Advent Week One: The Light of Hope – https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Obh3zvna-ng Elizabeth Gilbert Oprah show botox post on Instagram – https://www.instagram.com/p/CCyHEtZh8DG/ Tom Holland “Umbrella” Lip Sync Battle – https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jPCJIB1f7jk The Guardian | I tried some hacks to make my phone less appealing. It got existential – https://www.theguardian.com/lifeandstyle/2024/jan/15/phone-addiction-cut-screen-time-diary Catherine Shannon Substack | Everyone is Numbing Out –  https://catherineshannon.substack.com/p/everyone-is-numbing-out This Is Not a Book About Benedict Cumberbatch: The Joy of Loving Something--Anything--Like Your Life Depends On It by Tabatha Carvan – https://amzn.to/4pora36 Guest’s Links: Website - https://www.scperot.com/ Instagram - https://www.instagram.com/scperot/ Substack - https://substack.com/@scperot Connect with Jen!Jen’s Website - https://jenhatmaker.com/ Jen’s Instagram - https://instagram.com/jenhatmakerJen’s Twitter - https://twitter.com/jenHatmaker/ Jen’s Facebook - https://facebook.com/jenhatmakerJen’s YouTube - https://www.youtube.com/user/JenHatmaker The For the Love Podcast is presented by Audacy.  To learn more about listener data and our privacy practices visit: https://www.audacyinc.com/privacy-policy Learn more about your ad choices. Visit https://podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Description: If you’ve been lucky enough to stumble upon ‘The Keeper of Lost Things’ the bestselling debut novel by British author Ruth Hogan, you know exactly why it captured our hearts and was selected as our JHBC November Fireside Read selection. This book is a whimsical, tender, and deeply human story about a man who collects seemingly insignificant lost objects — and the woman who inherits both his home and this strange little mission. As she begins to return these “lost things” to their owners, we discover that every object holds a story, every story holds a loss, and every loss holds a little bit of light. Ruth’s own story is just as moving — she began writing after recovering from a serious car accident, during a time when she felt a bit lost herself. And from that season came this debut novel that went on to charm readers all over the world. This book feels like a love letter to brokenness — to the idea that what’s been lost can still be redeemed. It’s a generous, tender book — one that invites us to look closer at the world around us and remember that meaning lives everywhere, even in the smallest things. Thought-provoking Quotes: “I was one of those people who thought, ‘I'll write a book one day… it'll happen one day.’ But you should never wait for one day. You should get on with it.” – Ruth Hogan “You can't control what life throws at you but you can control what you do with it.” – Ruth Hogan “I think I write in quite an unusual way, speaking to other authors. I don't worry about planning and plotting. I like it to just come out organically. I will sit down, the story is in my head and it will come out. But what I do do is I edit chapter by chapter, which is a very bizarre way of working. And I'm so finicky that sometimes I can't move on if one word isn't right.” – Ruth Hogan “I'm a great believer that the universe will tell you the right thing to do.” – Ruth Hogan “I love to explore the emotional attachment that we form with objects. And I think it's all about maintaining connections. We will give an object disproportionate significance because it relates to a person that we loved or a memory or a place. I think we all do that. all have objects and we have connections to these objects that make them much more valuable than their intrinsic worth.” – Ruth Hogan “In one of my other books I described my characters as being ‘cracked in the kiln’. Those are the people that I'm interested in. I'm not interested in perfect people. I'm interested in the people who are lost, who have made mistakes. I love that idea of people being repaired and being more beautiful and more valuable because of their life experience.” – Ruth Hogan Resources Mentioned in This Episode: The Keeper of Lost Things: A Novel by Ruth Hogan - https://amzn.to/4nGYy3p To the Sea by Train: The Golden Age of Railway Travel by Andrew Martin - https://amzn.to/3Jl7fT5 The Secret of Secrets: A Novel by Dan Brown - https://amzn.to/4oQTx9j The Golden Hour by Kate Lord Brown - https://amzn.to/4qMvslX Guest’s Links: Website - https://www.ruthhogan.co.uk/ Instagram - https://www.instagram.com/ruthmariehoganauthor/ Twitter - https://x.com/ruthmariehogan Facebook - https://www.facebook.com/RuthHoganAuthor/ Connect with Jen!Jen’s Website - https://jenhatmaker.com/ Jen’s Instagram - https://instagram.com/jenhatmakerJen’s Twitter - https://twitter.com/jenHatmaker/ Jen’s Facebook - https://facebook.com/jenhatmakerJen’s YouTube - https://www.youtube.com/user/JenHatmaker The For the Love Podcast is presented by Audacy.  To learn more about listener data and our privacy practices visit: https://www.audacyinc.com/privacy-policy Learn more about your ad choices. Visit https://podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Description:In this Road Tripping episode, Jen is joined by one of her dearest friends — the brilliant and beloved author and interviewer, Kelly Corrigan. Kelly read Awake cover to cover (twice!) and came armed to the live Awake Book Tour event in Denver, Colorado with ten of her favorite lines from the book, inviting Jen to riff on each one in real time. What unfolds is a night of belly laughs, truth-telling, and deep reflection on faith, patriarchy, divorce, parenting adult kids, therapy, rebuilding your life, and why middle age is actually the most freeing chapter yet. This conversation is Jen and Kelly at their absolute best: funny, wise, irreverent, and wide open. Growing up inside patriarchal faith systems and the lifelong impact of being taught not to trust your own intuition Why Jen believes that curiosity has never led her wrong — but that certainty has led her down many dead ends The moment that Jen realized the patriarchy harms everyone, including the men and boys she loves How purity culture can shape (and warp) our early ideas about sex, marriage, and womanhood Parenting through divorce and the shift from coaching to comforting Therapy breakthroughs around conflict, attachment styles, codependency, and dropping the need to control others’ emotions Thought-provoking Quotes: “Curiosity has never led me wrong. Certainty has led me down so many dead ends.” —Jen Hatmaker “Patriarchy messed both of us up. Neither one of us was meant to live inside those roles.” —Jen Hatmaker “When you try to rush your kids through their hard feelings, they feel abandoned. Comfort over coaching — that’s where we live.”  —Jen Hatmaker “I’m not your leader. I’m your sister. This book isn’t a prescription. It’s my story handed to you with open hands.”  —Jen Hatmaker “Sometimes the worst thing that ever happens ends up becoming the best thing. Not because of the pain — but because of the life that blooms afterward.” —Jen Hatmaker Resources Mentioned in This Episode: Awake: A Memoir by Jen Hatmaker – https://amzn.to/440b5YW Tell Me More: Stories About the 12 Hardest Things I'm Learning to Say by Kelly Corrigan –  https://amzn.to/4an9rUX The Middle Place by Kelly Corrigan – https://amzn.to/49Xueyt Kelly Corrigan Wonders podcast – https://www.kellycorrigan.com/podcast Who Is Government?: The Untold Story of Public Service by Michael Lewis – https://amzn.to/4pLC3Md Guest’s Links: Website - https://www.kellycorrigan.com/ Instagram - https://www.instagram.com/kellycorrigan Facebook - https://www.facebook.com/kelly.corrigan.376 Youtube - https://www.youtube.com/@kellycorriganvideo Podcast - https://www.kellycorrigan.com/podcast Connect with Jen!Jen’s Website - https://jenhatmaker.com/ Jen’s Instagram - https://instagram.com/jenhatmakerJen’s Twitter - https://twitter.com/jenHatmaker/ Jen’s Facebook - https://facebook.com/jenhatmakerJen’s YouTube - https://www.youtube.com/user/JenHatmaker The For the Love Podcast is presented by Audacy.  Listen in as Jen and Kelly discuss: To learn more about listener data and our privacy practices visit: https://www.audacyinc.com/privacy-policy Learn more about your ad choices. Visit https://podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Description: In this special Road Tripping episode, Jen invites her partner, actor/activist/author Tyler Merritt, to join her live after a last-minute schedule pivot. What unfolds is a night of honesty, hilarity, vulnerability, and deep connection. Jen reads two scenes from Awake—one from the earliest days of shock and grief, and one from the chaotic, hilarious adventure of dating again at midlife. She shares the moment her body finally allowed her to grieve, the unexpected relief that followed, and how storytelling helped rebuild her life from the inside out. Tyler joins her onstage and opens up about his own journey: discovering creativity as a kid in a sports household, what midlife has taught him, how his rare cancer diagnosis reshaped his priorities, and how their love story began on a night in New York City neither saw coming. He and Jen talk candidly about walking through illness together, finding joy even in hard seasons, and why Awake speaks to all genders—not just women. This episode is tender, funny, surprising, and deeply human—a reminder that grief can crack us open in ways that eventually let the light back in. ★ “My body bypassed my mind and gave itself the gift of grief.” — Jen Hatmaker (reading from Awake) ★ “If creativity is in you, you can’t get rid of it. It will find its way out.” — Tyler Merritt (on discovering his storytelling voice) ★ “Middle age shortens your alphabet — you just have fewer Fs to give.” — Tyler Merritt (describing midlife clarity) ★ “You don’t just get my story of cancer — you get yours, because you chose to love me.” — Tyler Merritt (on his cancer journey and their relationship) ★ “Some of the hardest things you’ve ever been through? You made it. You’re still here.” — Tyler Merritt (reflecting on resilience and survival) ➢ Awake: A Memoir by Jen Hatmaker - https://amzn.to/4rjitZ7➢ This Changes Everything: A Surprisingly Funny Story About Race, Cancer, Faith, and Other Things We Don’t Talk About by Tyler Merritt – https://amzn.to/4ilNtnh➢ Simple Habit meditation app (referenced in the grief scene) - https://www.simplehabit.com/➢ Corey Muscara (meditation guide Jen listened to) – https://corymuscara.com/➢ The Tyler Merritt Project – https://thetylermerrittproject.com/➢ Waitress: The Musical (where Jen and Tyler first met) – https://waitressthemusical.com/ Website – https://thetylermerrittproject.com/Instagram – https://www.instagram.com/thetylermerrittproject/Twitter – https://x.com/ttmprojectFacebook – https://www.facebook.com/thetylermerrittprojectYouTube – https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCPB48_JfK-VMnYQPTYyMX5Q Jen’s Website – https://jenhatmaker.com/Jen’s Instagram – https://instagram.com/jenhatmakerJen’s Twitter – https://twitter.com/jenHatmaker/Jen’s Facebook – https://facebook.com/jenhatmakerJen’s YouTube – https://www.youtube.com/user/JenHatmaker The For the Love Podcast is presented by Audacy. Thought-provoking Quotes:Resources Mentioned in This Episode:Guest’s Links:Connect with Jen! To learn more about listener data and our privacy practices visit: https://www.audacyinc.com/privacy-policy Learn more about your ad choices. Visit https://podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Description: Introducing: unPAUSED with Dr. Mary Claire Haver Dr. Mary Claire Haver, a bestselling author, board-certified Obstetrician-Gynecologist, Certified Menopause Practitioner, and women’s health advocate, is already known for transforming conversations about midlife and menopause. Now, she is extending her reach with her new podcast, unPAUSED, to share her expertise and empower even more women. On unPAUSED, Dr. Haver hosts candid, encouraging conversations about what it means to truly thrive during every stage of womanhood. This is about living life fully—no more pausing our lives, feeling invisible, or suffering in silence. Each weekly episode features a diverse lineup of guests, including medical experts, CEOs, and risk-takers, as they delve into universally relevant topics: from health and hormones to identity, relationships, and the experience of reinventing oneself in this next chapter. Listeners will come away from every episode feeling informed, seen, and inspired to live life unpaused. Check out this trailer for unPAUSED and subscribe today so you don’t miss an episode.  Thought-provoking Quotes: What I hear from women everyday is that they want more for themselves, yet here’s the reality – as women, we’ve been expected to serve and fade. We were raised to believe that our values lie in how much we give, how quiet we stay, and how well we put everyone else’s needs before our own. And then, when we hit midlife, the world looks away. But women are waking up and saying, ‘hell no!’” – Dr. Mary Claire Haver Resources Mentioned in This Episode: unPAUSED with Dr. Mary Claire Haver - https://thepauselife.com/pages/the-unpaused-podcast Guest’s Links: Website - https://thepauselife.com/ Instagram - https://www.instagram.com/drmaryclaire/ Facebook - https://www.facebook.com/drmaryclaire/ TikTok - https://www.tiktok.com/@drmaryclaire YouTube - https://www.youtube.com/@drmaryclaire Podcast - https://thepauselife.com/pages/the-unpaused-podcast Connect with Jen!Jen’s Website - https://jenhatmaker.com/ Jen’s Instagram - https://instagram.com/jenhatmakerJen’s Twitter - https://twitter.com/jenHatmaker/ Jen’s Facebook - https://facebook.com/jenhatmakerJen’s YouTube - https://www.youtube.com/user/JenHatmaker The For the Love Podcast is presented by Audacy.  To learn more about listener data and our privacy practices visit: https://www.audacyinc.com/privacy-policy Learn more about your ad choices. Visit https://podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Description: In today’s mind-bending episode, prepare to challenge everything you think you know. Today, we're inviting listeners into a radically inclusive conversation that reimagines ideas about communication, consciousness, and human connection. Award-winning filmmaker and storyteller Ky Dickens joins us to discuss The Telepathy Tapes, her viral podcast documenting the lived experiences of nonspeaking individuals who communicate in ways long dismissed or misunderstood. Through careful listening, deep respect, and investigative rigor, the series challenges entrenched assumptions about intelligence, language, and who gets to be heard—and believed. In conversation with hosts Jen and Amy, Ky explores how nonspeakers are expanding our understanding of connection beyond spoken language, giving insight into telepathic communication and shared consciousness. The episode centers the voices of a community historically excluded from public discourse and asks what becomes possible when we widen our definition of communication, dignity, and belonging. Rather than sensationalizing the unexplained, this conversation treats nonspeakers as authoritative narrators of their own experiences—inviting listeners to confront ableism, reexamine bias, and consider how inclusion begins with attention. Highlights from this Episode: How nonspeaking individuals are redefining communication and agency Dismissed yet fascinating topics like energy healing, animal communication, mediumship, and near-death experiences “The Hill”: a shared metaphysical space described by nonspeakers as a site of connection What these experiences reveal about consciousness, presence, and the enduring human need to belong This episode is a powerful act of listening—one that expands empathy, affirms marginalized voices, and challenges audiences to imagine a more inclusive understanding of what it means to communicate and connect. Thought-provoking Quotes: “Maybe instead of fixing the brokenness in society, I should focus on fixing the brokenness in me and in humanity.” – Ky Dickens “I don't think it's binary that people have to be that dogmatic about science, and we don't have to believe in everything. I think most of us are somewhere in the middle. We want to really investigate and understand the truth about the non-physical world, and it's not silly or unscientific or gullible to do so. I think it's a beautiful part of being alive.” – Ky Dickens “One thing I have come to realize deeply is that science and spirituality are not enemies.” – Ky Dickens “I have not met a single non-speaker who doesn't talk about people who've passed and about the very real existence of God in an afterlife.” – Ky Dickens Resources Mentioned in This Episode: The Telepathy Tapes – https://thetelepathytapes.com/ BT Harman - https://btharman.com/welcome Dr. Diane Hennacy Powell – https://drdianehennacy.com/ Elizabeth Gilbert – https://www.elizabethgilbert.com/ Rick Rubin - https://x.com/RickRubin Gregory Shushan – https://www.gregoryshushan.com/ Jane Goodall – https://janegoodall.org/ Guest’s Links: Website - https://thetelepathytapes.com/ Instagram - https://www.instagram.com/thetelepathytapes/ Twitter - https://x.com/TelepathyTapes Youtube - https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCPA5cHDlwkvTM7akXINZo9w TikTok - https://www.tiktok.com/@telepathytapes Podcast - https://open.spotify.com/show/1zigaPaUWO4G9SiFV0Kf1c Connect with Jen! Jen’s Website - https://jenhatmaker.com/ Jen’s Instagram - https://instagram.com/jenhatmaker Jen’s Twitter - https://twitter.com/jenHatmaker/ Jen’s Facebook - https://facebook.com/jenhatmaker Jen’s YouTube - https://www.youtube.com/user/JenHatmaker The For the Love Podcast is presented by Audacy. To learn more about listener data and our privacy practices visit: https://www.audacyinc.com/privacy-policy Learn more about your ad choices. Visit https://podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Description: We’re revisiting one of our most-loved conversations from this show—an exploration of how transformation takes shape in our lives and how we can bravely meet it, even when it’s terrifying. In this encore episode, we look back on Jen’s conversation with poet and community-builder Joy Sullivan, whose own “chosen change” became a leap toward more sanity, more love, and more joy. After years of living according to scripts written by others, Joy found herself standing at a crossroads, feeling the pull of something deeper and more true. What followed was a radical leap into the unknown—a move that reshaped her life, her faith, and her art, including her book ‘Instructions for Traveling West’ – a collection for anyone flinging themselves into their own fresh starts. Together, she and Jen talk about the “incremental scoots” we make before the big leap, the beauty and ache of reinvention, and how stillness can become a sacred space for clarity. Joy shares her story of walking into the unknown and learning to trust her intuition along the way. In this episode, we reflect on: The difference between a change that happens to us and one we choose Embracing loneliness and stillness as paths to self-discovery Lessons that taught Joy to love herself more deeply Why poetry gives language to what we cannot say aloud If you’re feeling the pull toward something new but uncertain, this encore offers a gentle reminder that change—though often uncomfortable—is where our truest selves begin to emerge. Thought-provoking Quotes: "If the birds know how to migrate, if bears know when to hibernate, if nature knows when to move forward, it doesn't make any sense for us to not know that also." – Joy Sullivan "It's so important to listen and to follow the rhythms that we're pulled to even if we don't know what we're leaping towards." – Amy Hardin “First you must realize you're homesick for all the lives you're not living. Then you must commit to the road and the rising loneliness.” – Joy Sullivan “You have to be careful what you write down—it performs this kind of beautiful, terrifying magic.” – Joy Sullivan “Don’t compare yourself to someone who’s mid-leap. There were probably a lot of scoots to the edge before they launched.” – Joy Sullivan “You don’t have to get the leap right every time. You just have to be willing to innovate midair.” – Joy Sullivan “I had coded into my psyche what it meant to be a good woman. When I fractured those stories, my life expanded into possibility.” – Joy Sullivan “If I take crumbs and call it a meal, if I stay in rooms where I’m not called beloved, then I’m in a cage of my own making.” – Joy Sullivan Resources Mentioned in This Episode: Flinging Ourselves Into Fresh Starts ft. Joy Sullivan – https://jenhatmaker.com/podcasts/series-61/flinging-ourselves-into-fresh-starts-ft-joy-sullivan/ Sustenance ((A Community of Poets and Writers founded by Joy Sullivan) - https://joysullivanpoet.com/sustenance Necessary Salt (Joy Sullivan’s Substack Blog) - https://joysullivan.substack.com/ Instructions For Traveling West: Poems by Joy Sullivan - https://amzn.to/4qZTZ7l Guest’s Links: Website - https://joysullivanpoet.com/ Instagram - https://www.instagram.com/joysullivanpoet/ Twitter - https://x.com/Joy_E_Sullivan Substack - https://joysullivan.substack.com/ Connect with Jen!Jen’s Website - https://jenhatmaker.com/ Jen’s Instagram - https://instagram.com/jenhatmakerJen’s Twitter - https://twitter.com/jenHatmaker/ Jen’s Facebook - https://facebook.com/jenhatmakerJen’s YouTube - https://www.youtube.com/user/JenHatmaker The For the Love Podcast is presented by Audacy. To learn more about listener data and our privacy practices visit: https://www.audacyinc.com/privacy-policy Learn more about your ad choices. Visit https://podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Description: Today’s guest is someone whose work has touched millions of hearts around the world. You probably fell in love with her through her luminous debut memoir ‘From Scratch: A Memoir of Love, Sicily, and Finding Home’, which was later adapted into a limited series on Netflix and became a global success. Tembi Locke has held many roles: accomplished author, producer, screenwriter, actor, artist, caregiver, child of divorce, mother through adoption, and widow to cancer. It is through her experiences in all of these spaces that Tembi has honed her ability to write, speak, and live from that rare place where grief and grace meet—where we can hold loss and love in the same breath. Her newest work, Someday, Now, is an immersive, breathtaking, and deeply personal audio experience that takes us on a journey back to Sicily, a place layered with memory, love, and loss for Tembi, as she prepares to send her daughter off to college. Through reflection, family, and the beauty of place, Tembi invites us to consider what it means to re-nest—to reclaim identity, purpose, and joy in a season of profound transition. Whether you’re launching a kid, starting over, or simply remembering how to listen to your own heart again, this episode will speak to you in this season. Thought-provoking Quotes: “Sometimes in sharing the hardest things, we actually feel less alone.” – Tembi Locke “Sicily is that place of myth and nectar for me. It's one of those places on the planet that is supercharged with the best of what nature has to offer: sun, wind, the sea. It’s a beautiful place. It's the place I return to when there's something I don't quite understand and Sicily makes me have to listen to it.” – Tembi Locke “I think when you get to midlife, you need to settle into yourself, be more present with yourself in order to show up for the big moments of change that are happening. Try to anchor in and be as present as possible.  Lean into the quiet spaces between the moments.” – Tembi Locke “How can we make space as families and really as mothers at this inflection point to quiet the noise and busyness of life? How can we slow down time, and really mark the moment and honor it?” – Tembi Locke Resources Mentioned in This Episode: From Scratch: A Memoir of Love, Sicily, and Finding Home by Tembi Locke - https://amzn.to/47s3ZhN From Scratch on Netflix - https://www.netflix.com/title/81104486 Attica Locke - https://www.atticalocke.com/ Someday, Now: A Memoir of Family, Reclaiming Possibility, and One Sicilian Summer by Tembi Locke - https://amzn.to/3LLKUyA Guest’s Links: Website - https://www.tembilocke.com/ Instagram - https://www.instagram.com/tembilocke/ Podcast - https://www.tembilocke.com/podcast Connect with Jen!Jen’s Website - https://jenhatmaker.com/ Jen’s Instagram - https://instagram.com/jenhatmakerJen’s Twitter - https://twitter.com/jenHatmaker/ Jen’s Facebook - https://facebook.com/jenhatmakerJen’s YouTube - https://www.youtube.com/user/JenHatmaker The For the Love Podcast is presented by Audacy.  To learn more about listener data and our privacy practices visit: https://www.audacyinc.com/privacy-policy Learn more about your ad choices. Visit https://podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Description: Tune in for this very special #JenHatmakerBookClub episode where Jen gives unprecedented access to look behind the scenes at her own writing process and collaboration that went into the publishing of “Awake”. For today’s conversation, Jen sits down with Vice President and Editorial Director for Avid Reader Press, Lauren Wein, to delve into the journey of bringing Jen's book "Awake" to the page and all the way to the New York Times bestseller list. Jen discusses the profound impact of trusting your own intuition in your writing along with the challenges in memoir-writing of prioritizing authenticity and vulnerability while honoring the privacy for those involved. Lauren pulls back the curtain on the collaborative nature of the editing process, describing the satisfaction she finds with helping authors find their voice. And Jen shares the one truth she hopes every reader of “Awake” walks away with. Anyone who is interested in writing, or the behind-the-scenes or book-making will enjoy this episode.  Whether you're a writer or a reader, this conversation offers a unique glimpse into the creative process and the power of storytelling. Thought-provoking Quotes: “One of the things that Awake is about is learning to trust yourself and trusting your body. I feel like that is how I edit. It's like a tuning fork. I sense when something is like, need more or need less. It's physical.” – Lauren Wein “Every story deserves authenticity.” – Jen Hatmaker “In the war of ‘you versus you’, nobody wins, because you're very hard on yourself. You have a very critical inner voice. When you hear somebody tell you something that you maybe sensed about yourself but you didn't quite know, it ignites something, it confirms something that maybe you sensed was there but the voice was too small because the other voices were just louder.” – Lauren Wein “Finding your voice is a journey.” – Lauren Wein “When this book was first announced, it was erroneously referred to as a tell-all, which was upsetting to all of us because that is absolutely not what it is. What was very important to you (Jen) was honesty, not telling it all, but being truthful and respecting other people's privacy. Now that is the hardest line to walk when you're writing your own story because your own story is not your own story entirely.” – Lauren Wein "Trust your intuition in creative work." – Jen Hatmaker Resources Mentioned in This Episode: For the parents who are slogging through May – https://jenhatmaker.com/blog/for-the-parents-who-are-slogging-through-may/ Margaret Riley King - https://www.wmebookdepartment.com/team/margaret-riley-king/ Maybe You Should Talk to Someone: A Therapist, HER Therapist, and Our Lives Revealed by Lori Gottleib - https://amzn.to/4pUADj8 Wild Game: My Mother, Her Secret, and Me by Adrienne Brodeur - https://amzn.to/4nywiRc Becoming Duchess Goldblatt by Anonymous - https://amzn.to/4o6rHpt Awake by Jen Hatmaker audiobook - https://amzn.to/4gU7v7P Lights on a Similar Path: ‘Awake’ Readers Reflect On Finding Their Way - https://jenhatmaker.com/podcasts/series-64/lights-on-a-similar-path-awake-readers-reflect-on-finding-their-way/ Guest’s Links: Website - https://editors.simonandschuster.com/editor/wein-lauren/ Twitter - https://x.com/desideratasaur Facebook - https://www.facebook.com/lauren.wein.1/ Connect with Jen!Jen’s Website - https://jenhatmaker.com/ Jen’s Instagram - https://instagram.com/jenhatmakerJen’s Twitter - https://twitter.com/jenHatmaker/ Jen’s Facebook - https://facebook.com/jenhatmakerJen’s YouTube - https://www.youtube.com/user/JenHatmaker The For the Love Podcast is presented by Audacy.  To learn more about listener data and our privacy practices visit: https://www.audacyinc.com/privacy-policy Learn more about your ad choices. Visit https://podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Description: In this heartfelt episode, Jen and Amy welcome friends, Justin McRoberts and Scott Erickson, to delve into the tender complexities of depression, creativity, and faith. Together, Scott and Justin have built a body of work around the intersection of art, prayer, and healing, including their newest project: In the Low: A Prayerbook for the Seasons of Depression. Today they share personal stories and insights on how art and spirituality can serve as companions through life's most isolating lows.  This episode offers a compassionate perspective on navigating mental health challenges and finding hope in unexpected places. If you've ever found yourself in a season that was super dark or unbearably heavy, this conversation will bring you comfort. Thought-provoking Quotes: “When depression eventually would lift in my life, I noticed that I'd think, ‘Where did this fruit come from? Where did this treasure come from?’ It came through going through this process. You might feel void of it when you're in it, you're just trying to get through it or be in it or be functional every day. But there is something happening.” – Scott Erickson “What are the comforting words I need for today? How can my conscious mind provide something for my subconscious and my soul? How can my conscious mind provide some handles for me for this day, for this week, for this moment?” – Justin McRoberts “Your disappointment in the religious systems you've been a part of is a gift and those systems need it. There's something really institutionally beautiful and necessary to whole swaths, thousands and thousands of people sharing the same set of disappointments. Follow that thread.” – Scott Erickson “You aren't wrong to feel the things you are feeling. Life is hard. The machinery is beating the snot out of you. Stay. Please stay long enough to see what might be down there and learn to breathe. My hope is not that you rise to the surface, though I do hope that. My hope is that you learn to breathe at this depth.” – Justin McRoberts Resources Mentioned in This Episode: 988 Suicide & Crisis Lifeline - https://988lifeline.org/ Nichole Nordeman - https://www.instagram.com/nicholenordeman Prayer: Forty Days of Practice by Scott Erickson and Justin McRoberts - https://amzn.to/4hDMVsM May It Be So: Forty Days with the Lord's Prayer by Scott Erickson and Justin McRoberts - https://amzn.to/3WsKFL5 Honest Advent: Awakening to the Wonder of God-with-Us Then, Here, and Now by Scott Erickson - https://amzn.to/3LeVIFc In the Low: Honest Prayers for Dark Season by Scott Erickson and Justin McRoberts - https://amzn.to/3LaIB87 Lost Connections: Uncovering the Real Causes of Depression - and the Unexpected Solutions by Johann Hari - https://amzn.to/4nsvrAR Matt Haig - https://amzn.to/4o7CTlV Scott Erickson Paints an Honest Picture of an Advent Season of Hope - https://jenhatmaker.com/podcasts/series-64/scott-erickson-paints-an-honest-picture-of-an-advent-season-of-hope/ To learn more about listener data and our privacy practices visit: https://www.audacyinc.com/privacy-policy Learn more about your ad choices. Visit https://podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Description: Part systems expert, part permission giver, Kendra Adachi, The Lazy Genius, has made it her mission to help you be a genius about the things that matter and lazy about the things that don’t. From simplifying a to-do list, to calming back-to-school chaos, tips on getting kids to clean their rooms, time management tips, travel hacks, recommended reading to make your life easier, Kendra’s philosophy on productivity and taming life  is a zero-shame zone. See what we mean in this excerpt from Kendra’s podcast where she helps us simplify one of my favorite things, rest. Thought-provoking Quotes: “It is possible to figure out what makes you feel more like yourself. There are things that energize and wake you up and other things that fill you up.” – Kendra Adachi Resources Mentioned in This Episode: #258 - The Seven Kinds of Rest and How to Know Which One You Need - https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/258-the-seven-kinds-of-rest-and-how-to-know-which-one-you-need/id1111796513?i=1000557902954 The PLAN: Manage Your Time Like a Lazy Genius by Kendra Adachi - https://amzn.to/47hKLvm Guest’s Links: Website - https://www.thelazygeniuscollective.com Instagram - https://www.instagram.com/thelazygenius/ Facebook - https://www.facebook.com/groups/2548803345149849 Podcast - https://www.thelazygeniuscollective.com/lazy Connect with Jen!Jen’s Website - https://jenhatmaker.com/ Jen’s Instagram - https://instagram.com/jenhatmakerJen’s Twitter - https://twitter.com/jenHatmaker/ Jen’s Facebook - https://facebook.com/jenhatmakerJen’s YouTube - https://www.youtube.com/user/JenHatmaker The For the Love Podcast is presented by Audacy.  To learn more about listener data and our privacy practices visit: https://www.audacyinc.com/privacy-policy Learn more about your ad choices. Visit https://podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Description: The number of people who have said, ‘Jen, you and John Fugelsang should have a conversation’ is approximately one thousand. So naturally, we thought, let’s have that conversation where a million listeners can tune in and enjoy it too. Strap yourself in for a wild ride as Jen Hatmaker chats with the ever-entertaining comedian, actor and broadcaster, John Fugelsang, host of the Tell Me Everything series on SiriusXM Progress and The John Fugelsang Podcast.  In this episode, they tackle the delightful chaos of breezy topics like Christian nationalism, the real teachings of Jesus (spoiler: it's not about power), and why love trumps all—literally. With his signature blend of humor and razor-sharp insight, John dishes on his book, "Separation of Church and Hate," and why it's time to take back the Bible from the fundamentalist fun police. Get ready for a conversation that's as enlightening as a Sunday sermon, but way more fun. Whether you consider yourself religious, spiritual, atheistic, or just allergic to hypocrisy, THIS is the episode for you.  Tune in, laugh, and maybe learn a thing or two! Thought-provoking Quotes: “I think the largest growing demographic we don't talk about is people who were raised religious but now consider themselves spiritual. They're not turned off to spirituality or God or Jesus or belief. They love the great mystery, but they're really turned off to the hypocrisies and the cruelties and the meanness of so many church communities in this country.” – John Fugelsang “ was raised to believe that Christianity was about the stuff that Christ taught and commanded: service to others, humility, love, acceptance, empathy, forgiving your enemies, turning the other cheek, replacing eye-for-an-eye. And the teachings of Jesus in Matthew 25, that individuals and nations are going to be judged by how they care for the poor, care for the sick, welcome the stranger, and care for the incarcerated. That's the stuff Jesus actually talked about.” – John Fugelsang “American Christians have been manipulated with all this homophobia, all this hatred of immigrants and none of that comes from Jesus and it's been done by a political movement that is only about power. Conservative Christian power, not the teachings of Christ, not the religious freedom, not fighting Satan, conservative Christian power.” – John Fugelsang “If Jesus spoke in parable and metaphor, why is it so hard to view the Bible as parable and metaphor? We get so hung up on proving the facts of the Bible that we miss the truth of the Bible. And the Bible has a lot of truth. It does not have a lot of facts.” – John Fugelsang Resources Mentioned in This Episode: Separation of Church and Hate: A Sane Person's Guide to Taking Back the Bible from Fundamentalists, Fascists, and Flock-Fleecing Frauds by John Fugelsang - https://amzn.to/4husQF3 Tell Me Everything with John Fugelsang on SiriusXM - https://www.siriusxm.com/blog/tag/john-fugelsang John’s Links: Website - https://www.johnfugelsang.com/ Instagram - https://www.instagram.com/johnfugelsang/ Twitter - https://x.com/JohnFugelsang Facebook - https://www.facebook.com/john.fugelsang.9 Youtube - https://www.youtube.com/@JJbirdsong1 Substack - https://johnfugelsang.substack.com/ Podcast - https://www.johnfugelsang.com/podcast Connect with Jen!Jen’s Website - https://jenhatmaker.com/ Jen’s Instagram - https://instagram.com/jenhatmakerJen’s Twitter - https://twitter.com/jenHatmaker/ Jen’s Facebook - https://facebook.com/jenhatmakerJen’s YouTube - https://www.youtube.com/user/JenHatmaker The For the Love Podcast is presented by Audacy.  To learn more about listener data and our privacy practices visit: https://www.audacyinc.com/privacy-policy Learn more about your ad choices. Visit https://podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Description: For a special treat this week, we’re bringing you some highlights straight from Jen’s recent Awake book tour in a limited series we’ve dubbed “Road Trippin’ with Jen”.  Every tour stop, audience, and special guest brought its own kind of magic, so we’re excited to share some of the best moments with you here on the podcast. On this Road Trippin’ stop, Jen shares the stage with two powerhouses. In Houston, board-certified OBGYN and best-selling author, Dr. Mary Claire Haver, shares her journey and insights into women's health, particularly around menopause and midlife. She unpacks our burning questions—why brain fog shows up before periods change, why sleep matters, and how a “menopause toolkit” can set us up for strength, longevity, and joy. This conversation delves into the complexities of menopause, the importance of nutrition, sleep, and movement, and the power of community and connection.  Together we learn how to thrive in mind, body, and spirit during this transformative phase of life. Then we head to the Music City of Nashville, where comedian and truth-teller Heather Land talks about using humor to survive whatever garbage life throws at us, pivoting careers in midlife, and choosing honesty as a way to create belonging. Heather reminds us that laughter can be holy too, and when every other thing fails, humor has a way of breaking us open just enough to let the light in. Tune in for an evening that was equal parts comedy set, revival, and group therapy. … Thought-provoking Quotes: Perimenopause brain changes show up well before your periods go sideways.” — Dr. Mary Claire “Strength training is non-negotiable if you want to keep bone and muscle.” — Dr. Mary Claire “If you don’t laugh, you’ll cry—and sometimes the laughing saves you.” — Heather Land “Honesty is freedom. If people don’t like it, that’s on them.” — Heather Land “Staying awake isn’t just serious business—it’s about finding delight in unexpected places.” — Jen Hatmaker Resources Mentioned in This Episode: The Ultimate Menopause Toolkit - https://bit.ly/3WkYsDo The New Menopause: Navigating Your Path Through Hormonal Change with Purpose, Power, and Facts by Dr. Mary Claire Haver - https://amzn.to/4qBg8bU For the Love Episode 21: Series 64 - Reinventing Yourself with Heather Land - https://jenhatmaker.com/podcasts/series-64/reinventing-yourself-with-heather-land/ Dr. Mary Claire Haver — Board-certified OB-GYN, bestselling author, leading voice on perimenopause/menopause care, and educator advocating science-based, compassionate treatment for women in midlife and beyond. Heather Land — Comedian, writer, and speaker whose viral wit opened the door to deeper storytelling. Known for pairing humor with honesty about faith, family, recovery, and midlife reinvention. Dr. Mary Claire Haver’s  Links: Website - https://thepauselife.com/ Instagram - https://www.instagram.com/drmaryclaire/ Facebook - https://www.facebook.com/drmaryclaire/ Youtube - https://www.youtube.com/@drmaryclaire TikTok - https://www.tiktok.com/@drmaryclaire Substack - https://drmaryclairehaver.substack.com/ Podcast - https://thepauselife.com/pages/the-unpaused-podcast Heather Land’s Links: Website - https://www.heatherlandofficial.com/ Instagram -https://www.instagram.com/heatherland_iaintdoinit Facebook - https://www.facebook.com/iaintdoinit/ Youtube - https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCs4omp2klYLTOqqY56j-8Ag TikTok - https://www.tiktok.com/@heatherlandofficial Podcast - https://open.spotify.com/show/1c9HiacYhJDBWa2UneL7Ae?si=19c9414ec4f74953 Connect with Jen!Jen’s Website - https://jenhatmaker.com/ Jen’s Instagram - https://instagram.com/jenhatmakerJen’s Twitter - https://twitter.com/jenHatmaker/ Jen’s Facebook - https://facebook.com/jenhatmakerJen’s YouTube - https://www.youtube.com/user/JenHatmaker The For the Love Podcast is presented by Audacy.  Meet the guests To learn more about listener data and our privacy practices visit: https://www.audacyinc.com/privacy-policy Learn more about your ad choices. Visit https://podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Description: In this episode of the Matriarchy series, we explore how deeply ingrained patriarchal narratives can create a policing effect on the behavior of women.  Author, Elise Loehnen, discusses her book "On Our Best Behavior" which examines how concepts like the seven deadly sins have historically been used to restrict women's behavior and police their adherence to an idealized form of "goodness." Loehnen unpacks the insidious ways women are culturally conditioned from a young age to suppress normal human drives like anger, ambition, and sexuality. And how disrupting rigid gender stereotypes is important when raising the next generation in order to build a more compassionate world.  … Thought-provoking Quotes: ★ “Women are trained for goodness; men are trained for power.” – Elise Loehnen ★ “Patriarchy isn’t just out there in systems and structures — it’s in us. It’s the air we breathe.” – Elise Loehnen ★ “A ‘good woman’ never needs anything. She has no wants, no anger, no appetite. She exists to meet everyone else’s needs — and calls it virtue.” – Elise Loehnen ★ “We are so conditioned to police ourselves that we end up policing each other.” – Elise Loehnen ★ “I hold everything I think with loose hands. This is what I know now. But I’m open to the me who might think differently later.” – Jen Hatmaker Resources Mentioned in This Episode: ➤ On Our Best Behavior by Elise Loehnen - https://bit.ly/44tz41D ➤ Goop - https://goop.com ➤ For the Love of Being Seen and Heard ft. Lori Gottlieb - https://bit.ly/4b8YT9C ➤ Maybe You Should Talk to Someone by Lori Gottlieb - https://bit.ly/3JO7FOn ➤ Evagrius Ponticus (Fourth Century Christian Monk) - https://bit.ly/4b7zEV5 ➤ Pope Gregory on the 7 Deadly Sins - https://bit.ly/3y1J1XK ➤ Harvey Weinstein Abuse Cases -  https://bit.ly/4b5ktM5 ➤ Carol Gilligan - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Carol_G... ➤ In a Different Voice by Carol Gilligan - https://bit.ly/3JQ9IBh   ➤ Human Voice by Carol Gilligan - https://bit.ly/3UQ1Rcn ➤ Andrew Tate - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Andrew_... ➤ Order, Disorder, Reorder (An idea Developed by Richard Rohr) - https://bit.ly/44xzHqK ➤ For the Love of The Enneagram ft. Richard Rohr - https://bit.ly/3QzzZaW ➤ Loretta Ross - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Loretta... Guest’s Links: ➤ Website: https://www.eliseloehnen.com/ ➤ Facebook:   / eliseloehnen   ➤ Instagram:   / eliseloehnen   ➤ Twitter:   / eloehnen   ➤ LinkedIn:   / elise-loehnen-b867523   ➤ Podcast: https://www.eliseloehnen.com/episodes ➤ Blog: https://eliseloehnen.substack.com/ Connect with Jen!Jen’s Website - https://jenhatmaker.com/ Jen’s Instagram - https://instagram.com/jenhatmakerJen’s Twitter - https://twitter.com/jenHatmaker/ Jen’s Facebook - https://facebook.com/jenhatmakerJen’s YouTube - https://www.youtube.com/user/JenHatmaker The For the Love Podcast is presented by Audacy.  To learn more about listener data and our privacy practices visit: https://www.audacyinc.com/privacy-policy Learn more about your ad choices. Visit https://podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Description: If you have ever lost your cool with your kids and then felt the crushing wave of guilt that comes sweeping in after—this episode is for you. This week, Jen and Amy sit down with psychotherapist and emotions educator Hilary Jacobs Hendel, author of ‘It’s Not Always Depression’ and the new book ‘Parents Have Feelings, Too’, to talk about what happens when we stop ignoring our own emotions and start bringing more calm, curiosity, and compassion into our families. Hilary shares her groundbreaking Change Triangle model—a simple but powerful tool that helps us move from anxiety, shame, and reactivity to understanding what’s really underneath: our core emotions like anger, sadness, fear, and joy. Together, they unpack: How to break cycles we inherited from our own parents What “open-hearted parenting” looks like in real life How to repair when we’ve said or done something we regret And why healing our emotions may be the greatest legacy we give our kids It’s a conversation full of science, self-compassion, and deep sighs of relief—a reminder that parents have feelings too, and that tending to them isn’t selfish; it’s sacred work. Whether you’re parenting toddlers, teens, or even adult children, there is something to serve you in this episode and it’s a great one to share with a friend. Thought-provoking Quotes: “It's always possible for relationships and the brain to change, and they happen hand in hand, so it is never too late.” – Hilary Jacobs Hendel “What I needed to do was slow everything down and get curious. Get to know this kid, say, ‘tell me a little bit more about what's going on.’ Question my own values and the ways I thought it was going to be, all these fantasies that I came in with at the expense of my kid when I thought I was helping.” – Hilary Jacobs Hendel “Self-awareness is an investment that comes back in dividends and capital gains beyond anything that we can imagine. And it's so much more relaxing to parent this way.” – Hilary Jacobs Hendel “I can shout from the rooftops that emotions education is important, just like reading and math is important. In high school biology we learn we have a heart, lungs, and pancreas, but emotions affect us far worse. Every single day of our lives. You'd think somebody would want to pay attention to teaching us a little bit about them.”– Hilary Jacobs Hendel Resources Mentioned in This Episode: Parents Have Feelings, Too: A Guide to Navigating Your Emotions So You And Your Family Can Thrive by Hilary Jacobs Hendel and Juli Fraga - https://amzn.to/4h3wtlf For The Love Of Reconnecting Episode 03: Making Good Use of Our Emotions: Hilary Jacobs Hendel - https://jenhatmaker.com/podcasts/series-32/making-good-use-of-our-emotions-hilary-jacobs-hendel/ It's Not Always Depression: Working the Change Triangle to Listen to the Body, Discover Core Emotions, and Connect to Your Authentic Self by Hilary Jacobs Hendel - https://amzn.to/3L3an6f The Change Triangle - https://www.hilaryjacobshendel.com/whats-the-change-triangle Awake: A Memoir by Jen Hatmaker - https://amzn.to/4nCb9pi Simple Habit meditation app - https://www.simplehabit.com/ The Change Triangle YouTube Channel - https://www.youtube.com/c/thechangetriangle/videos Guest’s Links: Website - https://www.hilaryjacobshendel.com/ Instagram - https://www.instagram.com/hilaryjacobshendel/ Twitter - https://x.com/HilaryJHendel Facebook - https://www.facebook.com/AuthorHilaryJacobsHendel Youtube - https://www.youtube.com/c/thechangetriangle/videos Connect with Jen!Jen’s Website - https://jenhatmaker.com/ Jen’s Instagram - https://instagram.com/jenhatmakerJen’s Twitter - https://twitter.com/jenHatmaker/ Jen’s Facebook - https://facebook.com/jenhatmakerJen’s YouTube - https://www.youtube.com/user/JenHatmaker The For the Love Podcast is presented by Audacy.  To learn more about listener data and our privacy practices visit: https://www.audacyinc.com/privacy-policy Learn more about your ad choices. Visit https://podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Description: In this moving episode, listeners share their own tender and personal stories inspired by Jen's bestselling book, "Awake," which debuted at number three on the New York Times bestseller list. The touching and heartrending voicemails coming in from readers of “Awake” highlight our yearning to build our lives on solid foundations, our propensity to reach for community and friendship, and the shared human experience we feel around suffering and pain. In this deeply emotional episode, listeners recount overcoming stories of adversity and finding hope, often describing "Awake" as a "life raft" during their own challenging times and Jen gets to hear the profound impact that “Awake” is having on readers everywhere. Tune in for an inspiring journey through the voices of those touched by "Awake." Thought-provoking Quotes: “These listener voicemail episodes are so resonant. I love them. Y'all always say the truest, most beautiful, hardest things. Honestly, I'm always grateful for your courage to come on this show and say your thing out loud.” – Jen Hatmaker “I didn’t know Jen was about to curl up in my cave and hold me close. I didn’t know her story, which I expected to be irrelevant to mine, would tell me that I am okay, normal, and I won’t stay this way.” – Anonymous reader/listener “The best teachers don’t tell, they show. Although you say this book is not prescriptive and you’re not telling us what to do, you’ve shown us how to live a life and get through hard things with integrity, honesty, discretion, and strength. You’ve shown us how to take responsibility and ownership of our own shit. Your friends have shown us how to show up fully and unconditionally. Beautiful examples of love and friendship. Your family has shown us how to be there as an unwavering and loving presence to get through their hardest things.” Reader/listener, Denise “My life broke apart too and thankfully I had friendships to fall back on. It wasn’t a thing where I was grateful in hindsight. I was able to be grateful for it in the moment, which is not typically how stories unfold.” – Anonymous reader/listener Resources Mentioned in This Episode: Awake: A Memoir by Jen Hatmaker - https://amzn.to/3KDAalt 107 Days by Kamala Harris - https://amzn.to/47aZ6tb Poems & Prayers by Matthew McConaughey - https://amzn.to/473gy1Q Fierce, Free and Full of Fire: The Guide to Being Glorious You by Jen Hatmaker - https://amzn.to/48jrtXg Emily P. Freeman Podcast episode 374: Tell the Whole Truth with Jen Hatmaker - https://emilypfreeman.com/podcast/374/ For the Love Podcast: A Lantern for Others in Dark Spaces: Jen Hatmaker on Sharing Her Most Tender Story - https://jenhatmaker.com/podcasts/series-64/a-lantern-for-others-in-dark-spaces-jen-hatmaker-on-sharing-her-most-tender-story/ 7: An Experimental Mutiny Against Excess by Jen Hatmaker - https://amzn.to/4mTSzrM Connect with Jen!Jen’s Website - https://jenhatmaker.com/ Jen’s Instagram - https://instagram.com/jenhatmakerJen’s Twitter - https://twitter.com/jenHatmaker/ Jen’s Facebook - https://facebook.com/jenhatmakerJen’s YouTube - https://www.youtube.com/user/JenHatmaker The For the Love Podcast is presented by Audacy.  To learn more about listener data and our privacy practices visit: https://www.audacyinc.com/privacy-policy Learn more about your ad choices. Visit https://podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Description: Sometimes you  read a book that just wrecks you in the best possible way — the kind of story that stays in your bones long after you close the last page. Go As A River is exactly that kind of book. It is a lyrical and haunting coming-of-age novel set amid the rugged beauty of Colorado’s Western Slope in the late 1940s through the mid-20th century. Inspired by true events—the disappearance of the small ranching town of Iola beneath the Blue Mesa Reservoir—Shelley Read crafts a story that is both intimately personal and richly symbolic.  Shelley is a fifth-generation Coloradan who has spent her life in the Gunnison Valley, and you can feel that connection to the land in every line of this novel. Shelley has spent decades teaching writing and literature, but with this debut (now an international bestseller) she’s given us something timeless — a story about love, loss, and the courage to keep moving forward like the river itself. Thought-provoking Quotes: “I deeply value the long journey to becoming ourselves, especially as women, and the complexities of that journey.” – Shelley Read “I think,so often, young people are boxed in and alienated from the very beginning to who their true self is and what their true journey is. And, I thought [as a teacher] that I could save these young people a whole lot of pain going forward and just help them discover who they are now, to follow their most authentic selves.” – Shelley Read “I'm not so sure that I set out to actively reclaim my creativity and my writerly self as much as Victoria Nash, bless her heart, the main character of my novel. She came to me in whatever magical way. I didn't go seeking her. She came and claimed me in some way and she is who turned me back to my writing life because she came to me with such power and such insistence that I had to write her story whether I had time to do it or not. Little by little by little I started accepting this journey of coming back to my writerly self.” – Shelley Read “I think the more generous we can be as writers with process and allowing the story to unfold over time, in the most authentic way, then we really get into the story that we really need to be telling.” – Shelley Read I had to turn the story and the journey in this novel toward hope. I had to. Because ultimately, this deep well of strength and resilience and this ability to bear the seemingly unbearable that all of us carry. Hope is what's going to drive us to rise each time, and to continue to rise.” – Shelley Read Resources Mentioned in This Episode: Go as a River: A Novel by Shelley Read - https://amzn.to/4lIly0Y Film Rights to Shelley Read’s Global Bestseller ‘Go as a River’ Head to Fifth Season, Mazur Kaplan - https://variety.com/2023/film/news/go-as-a-river-movie-shelley-read-book-1235667430 The River’s Daughter by Bridget Crocker - https://amzn.to/3Jy78mE Awake: A Memoir by Jen Hatmaker – https://amzn.to/4n3WpPy Guest’s Links: Website - https://www.shelleyread.com/ Instagram - https://www.instagram.com/shelleyread.author Facebook - https://www.facebook.com/shelley.read.50 To learn more about listener data and our privacy practices visit: https://www.audacyinc.com/privacy-policy Learn more about your ad choices. Visit https://podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Description: Sometimes the deepest growth comes from the hardest seasons. An untreatable diagnosis, a painful divorce, the loss of hard-earned savings—when life tears apart the script we imagined for ourselves, we’re left to wrestle with who we are, what we value, and how to begin again. In this special encore episode, poet and bestselling author Maggie Smith joins Jen for a tender, hopeful conversation about finding light in the aftermath of loss. Jen shares how she first discovered Maggie’s work (spoiler: Shauna Niequist played matchmaker), and together they swap stories of navigating divorce, rediscovering hope, and daring to rebuild. Maggie opens up about the unexpected end of her marriage, the daily pep talks she wrote just to survive, and how those words became lifelines for thousands of others. Along the way, she reminds us that even when our script gets flipped, we can trust “future us,” make peace with uncertainty, and emerge stronger, more grounded, and ready for what comes next. If you’ve ever felt adrift in the dark or questioned your worth in the wake of loss, this encore episode will remind you that you are loved, worthy, and capable of carrying on—step by step, word by word. Thought-provoking Quotes: “Growth unfortunately often comes from the most uncomfortable or painful parts of life. I don’t want this to be true, and yet here we are.” – Jen Hatmaker “My marriage ended… and part of what helped me stay anchored was writing. I was in too much pain to really write poems, so I started writing myself a little pep talk every day. What I found was that all these other people started sharing them… and that sense of purpose, and that sense of shared community, at a time when I felt completely alone, was everything.” – Maggie Smith “Hope is imaginative—it allows you to envision what might be up ahead even when you see nothing.” – Jen Hatmaker “I was lost at sea, adrift in the dark, but even one small light on the horizon showed me I was still on the right path.” – Jen Hatmaker “I’ve built up a tolerance to ambiguity. Ten years ago, it would’ve undone me. Now, it’s a skill I’m grateful for.” – Maggie Smith “We didn’t choose this. The script was flipped for us. But what we do with it—that belongs to us.” – Jen Hatmaker Resources Mentioned in This Episode: Shauna Niequist - https://www.shaunaniequist.com/ Keep Moving: Notes on Loss, Creativity, and Change by Maggie Smith - https://amzn.to/41YsuAb Good Bones: Poems by Maggie Smith - https://amzn.to/469P6jA Goldenrod: Poems by Maggie Smith - https://amzn.to/3Iwh7ZB You Could Make This Place Beautiful: A Memoir by Maggie Smith - https://amzn.to/46r9CuZ Guest’s Links: Website - https://maggiesmithpoet.com/ Instagram - https://www.instagram.com/maggiesmithpoet/ To learn more about listener data and our privacy practices visit: https://www.audacyinc.com/privacy-policy Learn more about your ad choices. Visit https://podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Description: The day has finally arrived—Awake is officially out in the world. In this episode, Jen Hatmaker opens up about a story she's held tightly for years, a story she's finally ready to share. Jen takes us behind the scenes of writing Awake—a memoir told in vivid vignettes and written in real-time, as if each scene was recounted the very day it happened. The book is broken into three parts: The End, The Middle, and The Beginning, tracking Jen’s own process of healing and awakening to a number of realizations and truths. Jen walks us down that path of recovery while honoring the many women who held up lanterns along the way and gave her the courage to keep going. She reflects on the process of confronting the deep-rooted systems of patriarchy, purity culture, body shame, and the shaky foundation that once defined her marriage. This book isn’t just about the patterns, behaviors, codependency, and attachment wounds that shaped Jen’s story—it’s also about the joy of stepping into a new beginning. And most of all, it’s about you. Because it was your presence, your listening, and your courage that made her brave enough to tell it. Now, it’s yours. Thought-provoking Quotes: “I was in the pitch black, dark night of the soul. Everything was so shrouded in grief and loss and fear but I could see all these little lanterns from my community going, ‘Keep going. We're here. We're with you.’ I'll never get over that as long as I live.” – Jen Hatmaker “Awake is the lantern I am holding up.for women everywhere who need someone else to tell them, ‘Keep going. You're not alone. I understand your feelings. I understand your fear. I understand your trauma. Maybe also a teeny bit, I understand your future. I understand what you are capable of. What is possible for you. I understand your resiliency. I understand that no matter what you have lost, what has changed, what has shifted, no matter how brokenhearted you are, I still believe some of your best days are ahead of you.’” – Jen Hatmaker “I can trust you, the reader, to do what you need to do with the information. I can trust you to take exactly what you need out of each and every moment, memory, everything, and to alchemize that into your own life, into your own story. I don't have to tell you what to do with it. I don't have to tell you what to think about it. I don't have to tell you how to process it.” – Jen Hatmaker “The fits this book gave me, trying to write in real time! You know, writing an eighth grade memory took me a third of the book to finally get the tense of all my verbs right. I kept writing it in the past tense because it's in the past. The amount of times I had to comb back through and change all the verb tenses to present instead of past was every single paragraph.” – Jen Hatmaker “If I'm gonna tell the story, then let's tell the story. Not like the shinier version of it or the less humiliating version of it or the one that would never indict me, only my partner. There's no integrity in that.” – Jen Hatmaker Resources Mentioned in This Episode: Awake: A Memoir by Jen Hatmaker - https://amzn.to/4pduwXb Bumble – https://bumble.com/en-us/ To learn more about listener data and our privacy practices visit: https://www.audacyinc.com/privacy-policy Learn more about your ad choices. Visit https://podcastchoices.com/adchoices

In this episode, we're joined by Emmy Award–winning journalist and fierce midlife advocate, Tamsen Fadal, who has become a trusted voice for women navigating the complex — and often misunderstood — journey of menopause. Through her work and her new book, How to Menopause: The Essential Roadmap to Resilience and Empowerment in Midlife and Beyond, Tamsen is on a mission to rewrite the narrative around aging, helping women feel seen, supported, and empowered. Her book is packed with practical tools, honest storytelling, and a powerful message: this phase of life isn’t something to endure — it’s an opportunity to reinvent, reconnect, and rise. From demanding better healthcare to breaking the silence in the workplace, Tamsen is helping women turn midlife into a movement. In today’s enlightening conversation, we unpack: Whether you’re in the thick of it or just beginning to notice the shifts, this episode will leave you informed, inspired, and ready to take action. Share this episode with a woman you care about! Thought-provoking Quotes:   Resources Mentioned in This Episode:   Guest’s Links: Website - https://www.tamsenfadal.com/ Instagram - https://www.instagram.com/tamsenfadal/ Twitter - https://x.com/TamsenFadal Facebook - https://www.facebook.com/tamsenfadal/ TikTok - https://www.tiktok.com/@tamsenfadal Substack - https://tamsenfadal.substack.com/ Podcast - https://www.tamsenfadal.com/the-tamsen-show-podcast   Connect with Jen!Jen’s Website - https://jenhatmaker.com/ Jen’s Instagram - https://instagram.com/jenhatmakerJen’s Twitter - https://twitter.com/jenHatmaker/ Jen’s Facebook - https://facebook.com/jenhatmakerJen’s YouTube - https://www.youtube.com/user/JenHatmaker   The For the Love Podcast is presented by Audacy.              ● The biggest myths about menopause we need to bust● How to become your own best advocate in the doctor’s office● Why midlife isn’t an ending — it’s a beginning★ “The truth is there are a lot of doctors who, through no fault of their own,  are not informed about menopause. Doctors don't go into this profession not wanting to help, but unfortunately a lot of them, by their own admission, were not trained in medical school. And I think we've got to do something about that one.” – Tamsen Fadal★ “Women are thriving. They're bolder, smarter, wiser, they’re more open about their lives, healthier in a lot of ways, they’re in relationships that they want to be in versus relationships that they felt like they had to be in.  I look at this as a celebration in some ways.” – Tamsen Fadal★ “I really think that we have to start looking at this stage of life in a different way.  Women could celebrate this time in life, what I've been calling the bolden years instead of the golden years, instead of dreading these years.” – Tamsen Fadal★ “If you're dealing with the symptoms of perimenopause and you don't know what's going on, it can be so stressful. You're having heart problems. You feel like you're going crazy. You can't sleep, and now you can't function at work. I wanted women to be able to know what to do. It’s a chaotic time that can feel confusing unless we simplify it.” – Tamsen Fadal★ “It is so nice to feel normal at this stage of life. It is just such a relief to realize not only how many of us there are, but how many solutions exist. We are not helpless and this is not inevitable. Menopause is, but the suffering isn’t.” – Jen Hatmaker➢ How to Menopause: Take Charge of Your Health, Reclaim Your Life, and Feel Even Better than Before by Tamsen Fadal – https://amzn.to/4mIbMx5➢ The M Factor: Shredding the Silence About Menopause – https://themfactorfilm.com/➢ Midi Health - https://www.joinmidi.com/➢ The Men’s Guide to Understanding Menopause – https://www.tamsenfadal.com/mens-guide-to-understanding-menopause To learn more about listener data and our privacy practices visit: https://www.audacyinc.com/privacy-policy Learn more about your ad choices. Visit https://podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Description: Have you ever found yourself at odds with someone you deeply care about—unable to agree on something that really matters? Is it possible to stay connected, even when your beliefs clash? This seemed like an important question to answer, so we decided to go back into our archives to bring forward this 2021 conversation about one of the most challenging forms of reconnection: loving and staying in relationship with people who see the world differently. To help us navigate this complex emotional landscape, we're joined by Rozella Haydée White—also known as the Love Big Coach. A theologian, spiritual life coach, and leadership consultant, Rozella is passionate about helping people cultivate love that is both healing and justice-rooted. In this encore episode,  Rozella and Jen explore how to show up in hard conversations without losing yourself, and how to make space for compassion when disagreement feels like a wall. Rozella offers this powerful reminder: “If we believe that people are created in the image of God, then I don't really have a choice but to believe in people.” This conversation unpacks:  What it means to stay in a relationship when we do not see eye to eye How we keep loving family and friends when our values don’t align anymore What do we do with our fractured families without creating havoc and disruption How we can hold two things that are true at once Thought-provoking Quotes: “If we believe that people are created in the image of God, then I don't really have a choice but to believe in people, because I don't believe that God creates anything but that which is life-giving, that which is creative, that which is good and holy.” – Rozella Haydée White “When I talk about love, I'm talking about that which is creative, that which is justice-seeking, and that which is ultimately sustaining for our mind, heart, bodies, and soul.” – Rozella Haydée White “Love does not mean absence of consequence or absence of conflict.” – Rozella Haydée White Resources Mentioned in This Episode: Love Big Coach - https://www.rozellahwhite.com/ A Rhythm of Prayer: A Collection of Meditations for Renewal by Sarah Bessey - https://amzn.to/466mtT3 Glennon Doyle’s For The Love Episode - https://jenhatmaker.com/podcasts/series-02/finding-beauty-in-the-mess-with-glennon-doyle/ Brené Brown’s For The Love Episode - https://jenhatmaker.com/podcasts/series-02/getting-vulnerable-with-dr-brene-brown/ Love Big: The Power of Revolutionary Relationships to Heal the World by Rozella Haydée White - https://amzn.to/3Vrm6Oh Guest’s Links: Website - https://www.rozellahwhite.com/ Instagram - https://www.instagram.com/lovebigcoach/ Facebook - https://www.facebook.com/lovebigcoach Youtube - https://www.youtube.com/@lovebigcoach TikTok - https://www.tiktok.com/@lovebigcoach Connect with Jen!Jen’s Website - https://jenhatmaker.com/ Jen’s Instagram - https://instagram.com/jenhatmakerJen’s Twitter - https://twitter.com/jenHatmaker/ Jen’s Facebook - https://facebook.com/jenhatmakerJen’s YouTube - https://www.youtube.com/user/JenHatmaker The For the Love Podcast is presented by Audacy.  To learn more about listener data and our privacy practices visit: https://www.audacyinc.com/privacy-policy Learn more about your ad choices. Visit https://podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Description: As a luminary in contemporary literature, Elizabeth Gilbert’s writing has shaped the zeitgeist through adventure, spiritual exploration, creativity, and what it means to live a life of integrity. Her work consistently resonates with a global audience, prompting introspection and inspiring personal journeys of self-discovery. In this episode, Elizabeth Gilbert delves into the intricate narratives woven within her latest book, All the Way to the River: Love, Loss, and Liberation.  Liz traces the evolving nature of her bond with Rayya Elias, illustrating how the relationship transitioned from a cherished best friend to a trusted neighbor, then blossomed into a profound creative muse, and ultimately became a romantic partner—her "person."  This deeply significant relationship unfolded against the harrowing backdrop of Rayya’s terminal pancreatic cancer diagnosis and her courageous, yet often arduous, battle with addiction.  In a conversation full of heart and unabashed vulnerability, Liz reflects on her own struggles with people-pleasing, addiction, and finding emotional and spiritual sobriety, discussing what it looks like to take accountability for one's own well-being to write a life story that ends with dignity. Thought-provoking Quotes: “If you're very lucky, you might just meet one person in your life who you can go all the way to the river with.” – Elizabeth Gilbert “There's not a jury in the world who wouldn’t have agreed that I had every right to see myself as a victim in that story but I still didn't see my role in the insanity. It took me years of grieving and anger and processing to see it.” – Elizabeth Gilbert “There is no such thing as a relationship between an incredibly healthy person and an incredibly dysfunctional person. There's an incredibly dysfunctional person and a person who is very far from themselves engaging in that relationship with that incredibly dysfunctional person.” – Elizabeth Gilbert “I’ve used people as though they are drugs, to shore up my incredibly gaping insecurity wound. So I'm going to either use someone as a sedative, somebody who makes me feel really safe, or I'm going to go find somebody to use as a speed ball of excitement and danger, somebody who's very bad for me. I would just try to find the person who could make my levels feel right.” – Elizabeth Gilbert “Like many humans, I am extremely faulty at knowing what's going to make me happy.. I anticipate that something will make me happy and it almost kills me.” – Elizabeth Gilbert Emotional sobriety, for me, is taking complete accountability for my own nervous system and not ever accusing anybody of disrupting it. A simple thing that I've learned to say is not ‘You need to stop behaving the way that you're behaving’, but ‘I love you and I need to go.’” – Elizabeth Gilbert To learn more about listener data and our privacy practices visit: https://www.audacyinc.com/privacy-policy Learn more about your ad choices. Visit https://podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Description: Today’s episode is an absolute treat. Catherine Newman, the beloved author of both fiction and nonfiction writing, known for her sharp wit, emotional resonance, and profound insights into everyday life, sits down with Jen to talk about our August JHBC selection, Sandwich, which quickly gained national attention for its honest, tender, and hilarious reflection on real life in the messy middle years.  In this discussion that feels like a conversation between lifelong friends, Jen and Catherine delve into the unique challenges faced by the Sandwich Generation.  Catherine writes so beautifully about the ache of watching our kids become adults—still ours, but not really, meanwhile exploring what it looks like to engage in the caretaking and slow grief of watching our parents age. And with hilarious candor, she peels back the curtain of what it’s like to endure all of this in the throes of menopause.  It’s a book that feels like it crawled inside our minds, hearts, and lives.  Catherine also gives glimpses into how many of the characters and storylines were inspired by real life experiences, which is perhaps why it tugs so tenderly on our heartstrings and strikes such a raw and honest chord with its readers. Thought-provoking Quotes: “I became like a total writing-for-money whore. I couldn't believe you could write for money. It was so intoxicating to me and I started writing everything I could if they would pay me for it and I did this until last year. And it didn't really matter what they would pay me for it. And I wrote everybody's alumni magazines. I wrote advertorial copy for websites. I wrote the etiquette column for Real Simple Magazine for 10 years, like a billion different things. And here I am.”  – Catherine Newman “Talk about ‘sandwich’. I'm the filling that's slowly extracting itself. I'm like the bologna creeping out the back door while the sandwich takes care of itself. An incredible system.” – Catherine Newman “How did I not know this stuff? I thought menopause really was the cessation of your period. Like it was a train you got on when you were 12 and then you just stepped off of it when you were 50. Not that you stepped off this train and entered this hellscape.” – Catherine Newman “I stopped reading the Goodreads reviews for Sandwich — somebody did call the book ‘grinding and plotless’. It was a three-word review and I loved it so much, like this is the slow drip of shame and hubris for me…. I want that on my tombstone ‘grinding and plotless’, like ‘tell me about it, you only had to read about it, this is my actual life.’” – Catherine Newman To learn more about listener data and our privacy practices visit: https://www.audacyinc.com/privacy-policy Learn more about your ad choices. Visit https://podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Description: In this episode, we open the mic to our incredible podcast community, spotlighting the diverse feedback and personal stories from our listeners that have shaped our discussions. Hear firsthand accounts of the impact our guests and their insights have had. Listeners Melinda, Tracy, Joanna, Erin, Kelly, Laura, and Sarah share a wide range of experiences: navigating major life changes like empty-nesting, building new friendships, wrestling with evolving faith, and even becoming an unwilling country music convert. We also dive into some humorous reflections about Travis and TayTay, rest stop kittens, and open mic nights. Join us as we celebrate the voices that make our podcast a vibrant and dynamic space for conversation and connection. Tune in and be part of the dialogue. Thought-provoking Quotes: “Let the top rung of the ladder be your sincere convictions. That's the one to keep sturdy, clear, and visible, and hold that one as tight as you can.” – Jen Hatmaker “Anchor your feet into the ground and stand in this storm. Let it rage. Weather it, weather your own discomfort, weather everybody else's discomfort and whatever loss or change comes along with it, because it will end, and there will come a day when it is not that chaotic and what you will be left with is your integrity and that is enough.” – Jen Hatmaker “Women are capable of getting through the hardest things.  Maybe it’s a trope because it’s true. Maybe the women who are betrayed grieve and recover and rebuild because that's what women do. So maybe it's not such a surprise that we can flourish.” – Amy Hardin “I’m just convinced, this is the time for us to reinvent. Look how awesome we are.” – Jen Hatmaker Resources Mentioned in This Episode: Taylor Swift and Travis Kelce engagement post - https://www.instagram.com/p/DN02niAXMM-/?utm_source=ig_web_copy_link&igsh=MTQ4YWwzOGcycWJlcA== [ENCORE] When the Truth Goes Viral: The Cost (and Benefit) of Living Honestly with Jonathan Merritt - https://jenhatmaker.com/podcasts/series-64/encore-when-the-truth-goes-viral-the-cost-and-benefit-of-living-honestly-with-jonathan-merritt/ Awake: A Memoir by Jen Hatmaker - https://amzn.to/3VnMb0k The Interview: Jen Hatmaker’s Life Exploded in Middle Age. So She Built a Better One. – https://www.nytimes.com/2025/08/23/magazine/jen-hatmaker-interview.html Shiny, Happy People - https://tv.apple.com/us/show/shiny-happy-people/umc.cmc.68y3j8gmhyj647n1j8hgscd3p No Filter, Just The Mirror: Trisha Yearwood Reflects On New Seasons and New Ambitions - https://jenhatmaker.com/podcasts/series-64/no-filter-just-the-mirror-trisha-yearwood-reflects-on-new-seasons-and-new-ambitions/ Trisha Yearwood - The Mirror – https://trishayearwood.lnk.to/TheMirror Awake Book Tour with guest moderator Trisha Yearwood - Austin, TX - https://www.eventbrite.com/e/bookpeople-presents-jen-hatmaker-awake-tickets-1388635428949?aff=oddtdtcreator I Choose Me: Jennie Garth on Midlife, Reinvention & Owning Your Next Chapter - https://jenhatmaker.com/podcasts/series-64/i-choose-me-jennie-garth-on-midlife-reinvention-owning-your-next-chapter/ Gretchen Rubin - https://gretchenrubin.com/ Our Epidemic of Loneliness and Isolation | The U.S. Surgeon General’s Advisory on the  Healing Effects of Social Connection and Community, 2023 - https://www.hhs.gov/sites/default/files/surgeon-general-social-connection-advisory.pdf Connect with Jen!Jen’s Website - https://jenhatmaker.com/ Jen’s Instagram - https://instagram.com/jenhatmakerJen’s Twitter - https://twitter.com/jenHatmaker/ Jen’s Facebook - https://facebook.com/jenhatmakerJen’s YouTube - https://www.youtube.com/user/JenHatmaker The For the Love Podcast is presented by Audacy.  To learn more about listener data and our privacy practices visit: https://www.audacyinc.com/privacy-policy Learn more about your ad choices. Visit https://podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Description: Today, Jen has a discussion with her longtime friend, brilliant thought-leader and activist, Austin Channing Brown. You probably know Austin from her viral first book, I’m Still Here: Black Dignity in a World Made for Whiteness, which flew off shelves in 2020 following the murder of George Floyd, as we were witnessing worldwide protests, calls for police reform, and a radical change to our racial justice systems. Countless people trusted Austin to help them unpack and understand the racial reckoning going on in our country at that time. Now, Austin is releasing a new project that shares some of her hard-fought learnings gained since that tumultuous time. Full of Myself: Black Womanhood and the Journey to Self-Possession is a love letter to the black women, like Austin herself, who are exhausted from being everything to everyone but themselves. Across essays titled “I Love Myself When I Am Laughing,” “When I Am Awkward,” “When I Am Failing,” and more, Austin celebrates the fullness of her humanity. Each chapter becomes a mirror, asking women—especially Black women—to consider where they’ve given themselves away and what it would mean to live with self-possession instead. Highlights from this conversation include: What it means to Austin to be “full of herself”—a phrase she reclaimed as an act of resistance, dignity, and spiritual integrity What happens in our bodies when we operate out of alignment with ourselves What it means to be a Black woman striving to live fully in a world that often demands her silence, her labor, and her conformity And the inspirational, life-saving advice that Austin received from activist, Tarana Burke This is such a good conversation starter and one to be shared, for sure. Thought-provoking Quotes: “I'm sick of white people telling me I have to remain in unhealthy workplaces, unhealthy worship spaces, unhealthy towns in order to save them. Everywhere I go, I'm told I should sacrifice myself for the possibility of whiteness getting its shit together.” – Austin Channing Brown “I grew up in an era that we called racial reconciliation. ‘Racial justice’ was too hard. It implied that there were two people who had both done wrong and needed to come together. And the way that was often phrased for people of color was that we needed to teach, we needed to offer grace, we needed to bend over backwards, we needed to touch hearts and minds, endless patience, we needed to watch our tone, we needed to be open and inviting. It was all about what we needed to do.” – Austin Channing Brown “There is an integrity, accountability, and power that comes with being full of myself. And there is a lack of needing to please anybody else. Because I'm full of me.” – Austin Channing Brown Resources Mentioned in This Episode: Full of Myself: Black Womanhood and the Journey to Self-Possession by Austin Channing Brown - https://amzn.to/4k0SQI1 I'm Still Here: Reese's Book Club: Black Dignity in a World Made for Whiteness by Austin Channing Brown - https://amzn.to/4jElqyn Nikki Giovanni, poet - https://www.poetryfoundation.org/poets/nikki-giovanni  Zora Neale Hurston - https://www.zoranealehurston.com/ I Love Myself When I Am Laughing And Then Again When I Am Looking Mean & Impressive by Zora Neale Hurston - https://amzn.to/3FVpGvA Tarana Burke - https://www.taranaburke.com/ Guest’s Links: Website - https://austinchanning.com/ Instagram - https://www.instagram.com/austinchanning/ Twitter - https://x.com/austinchanning Facebook - https://www.facebook.com/austinchanningbrown Substack - https://substack.com/@austinchanning Connect with Jen!Jen’s Website - https://jenhatmaker.com/ Jen’s Instagram - https://instagram.com/jenhatmakerJen’s Twitter - https://twitter.com/jenHatmaker/ Jen’s Facebook - https://facebook.com/jenhatmakerJen’s YouTube - https://www.youtube.com/user/JenHatmaker The For the Love Podcast is presented by Audacy. To learn more about listener data and our privacy practices visit: https://www.audacyinc.com/privacy-policy Learn more about your ad choices. Visit https://podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Description: Today’s conversation might have you clutching your pearls and purity rings. Jen and Amy sit down with Dr. Celeste Holbrook—sexologist, educator, and author of Missionary Position: A Slightly Irreverent Guide to Sex After Purity Culture—for the candid, hilarious, and healing “sex talk” you never had but always deserved. From busting purity culture myths to unpacking women’s complicated relationship with pleasure, Dr. Holbrook shares the four “inner missionaries” that shape our approach to sex, why sexual shame runs so deep, and how to reclaim intimacy as the joyful gift it was always meant to be. Highlights include:  Unpacking women' s complicated relationship with pleasure Dr. Holbrook prescribes the best sexy-time soundtrack Review of the four inner missionaries (the Analyst, the Assassin, the Healer, and the Explorer) – the archetypes that define our individual approach to sex  Celeste reveals a surprising fact that both golf carts and ejaculate have in common How the combination of purity culture, patriarchy and capitalism are the oppression cocktail for sex And the conversation veers off course when the trio discusses an exercise that uses Jason Mamoa to evaluate their sexual ethics Thought-provoking Quotes: “When I say sex education saved my relationship, I am not being bombastic. It really did help me find myself.” – Dr. Celeste Holbrook “We view sex through a patriarchal lens. Media tells us how to feel about sex and what is sexy. So what is sexy has been historically white, thin, able-bodied, young… And the way that we view ourselves then says, well, what if I'm not all of those things? Am I still sexy? Is my body still OK?” – Dr. Celeste Holbrook “The work for us, especially as women, is to anchor into our body to experience sensuality in order to experience sex instead of perform sex.” – Dr. Celeste Holbrook “We need to be inside the system in order to take down the system.” – Dr. Celeste Holbrook Resources Mentioned in This Episode: Jen Hatmake’s Sex MeCourse: SexEd For the Rest of Us - https://shop.jenhatmaker.com/products/sex-101 Pantsuit Politics - https://www.instagram.com/pantsuitpolitics/ Missionary Position: A Slightly Irreverent Guide to Sex after Purity Culture by Dr. Celeste Holbrook - https://amzn.to/46StjOa For the Love of Men by Liz Plank – https://amzn.to/41JtRSS  Say Yes to Pleasure: How to Talk About Sex and Rekindle Intimacy in Midlife with Vanessa Marin – https://jenhatmaker.com/podcasts/series-64/say-yes-to-pleasure-how-to-talk-about-sex-and-rekindle-intimacy-in-midlife-with-vanessa-marin/ A Tribe Called Quest – https://atribecalledquest.com/blogs/discography The Pleasure Club - https://www.drcelesteholbrook.com/https/thepleasureclub Guest’s Links: Website - https://www.drcelesteholbrook.com/ Instagram - https://www.instagram.com/drcelesteholbrook/ Facebook - https://www.facebook.com/DrCelesteHolbrook/ Connect with Jen!Jen’s Website - https://jenhatmaker.com/ Jen’s Instagram - https://instagram.com/jenhatmakerJen’s Twitter - https://twitter.com/jenHatmaker/ Jen’s Facebook - https://facebook.com/jenhatmakerJen’s YouTube - https://www.youtube.com/user/JenHatmaker The For the Love Podcast is presented by Audacy.  To learn more about listener data and our privacy practices visit: https://www.audacyinc.com/privacy-policy Learn more about your ad choices. Visit https://podcastchoices.com/adchoices

It’s time for another beloved encore presentation and this time we are bringing back this powerful podcast therapy session for your benefit and enjoyment.  Dr. Sara Kuburic, an existential psychotherapist and author behind The @Millennial.Therapist, offers profound insights into taking ownership of our lives. Dr. Kuburic champions the idea that we are free and responsible agents, shaping our own development through our choices. While it's easy to blame external forces for unhappiness, she encourages us to embrace the amazing opportunity to engage in life fully. She poses a crucial question: how much of what we face is inflicted by us, and how much just happens? As a therapist, she equips people with tools to navigate life’s challenges, asking: “what can you change or how can you change your attitude so the situation is less painful for you?” Beyond existential thought, Jen and Dr. Kuburic explore self-loss and how we can unknowingly deceive ourselves into believing we're living the life we desire, even as our bodies signal distress through depression, anxiety, and panic. Jen and Dr. Kuburic get honest about: The difference between loving the "idea" of who you are versus who you actually are, and how to stop self-deception. The point when avoiding change becomes more painful than embracing it. Acknowledging our physical limits: how our bodies send red flags like anxiety, fear, or panic, even when we feel strong. How an all-consuming dedication to making something work, even if it's not right for us, can lead to our weakest moments if we don't face the truth. Thought-provoking Quotes: “We get to engage in life; we can take ownership, we can take responsibility, we can make choices, and I think that that’s really how I see human suffering. My question is always, ‘how much of it happened to you? How much of it did you inflict on yourself?’” – Dr. Sara Kuburic “Life happens to us but that’s not all that happens. We also happen to life.” – Dr, Sara Kuburic “The most pain I experienced actually came from my own participation, which included avoidance and self-deceit. I am not hard on myself because it came from such a pure place. I can’t be mad at myself. But, I also understand that it’s not something that serves me.” – Dr. Sara Kuburic “The truth is there regardless of whether or not you choose to see it. It will dictate your life until you see it. So are you safe enough in yourself to handle the truth that you are resisting or avoiding? That’s a really delicate question that we need to honor.” – Dr.  Sara Kuburic Resources Mentioned in This Episode: Dr. Sara Kuburic’s “For the rest of 2025” Instagram post - https://www.instagram.com/p/C_WjH0mzF9z/ It’s On Me: Accept Hard Truths, Discover Yourself and Change Your Life by Dr. Sara Kuburic - https://amzn.to/3Uf40yf Dr. Sara Kuburic’s USA Today Column - https://www.usatoday.com/staff/7586635002/sara-kuburic/ Guest’s Links: Website - https://www.sara-kuburic.com/ Instagram - https://www.instagram.com/millennial.therapist/?hl=en Twitter - https://x.com/SaraKuburic Facebook - https://www.facebook.com/sarakuburic/ Connect with Jen!Jen’s Website - https://jenhatmaker.com/ Jen’s Instagram - https://instagram.com/jenhatmakerJen’s Twitter - https://twitter.com/jenHatmaker/ Jen’s Facebook - https://facebook.com/jenhatmakerJen’s YouTube - https://www.youtube.com/user/JenHatmaker The For the Love Podcast is presented by Audacy.  To learn more about listener data and our privacy practices visit: https://www.audacyinc.com/privacy-policy Learn more about your ad choices. Visit https://podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Description:  In Part 2 of this episode, we push even deeper — into the personal, the creative, the brave, and the sometimes scary places we go when we dare to  tell the truth. This time, Tyler Merritt has turned the tables on Jen and he’s asking the questions!  We talk about what it’s like to be seen, judged, misunderstood — and still choose honesty. We talk about Awake and the vulnerability involved with retelling the painful and unvarnished parts of your story. We talk about fear. And we talk about the joy we’ve found in the middle of it all. So let’s jump back in. In this second installment: Jen talks about the last time that she felt truly brave and what it felt like to unearth and expose some of the most tender and personal moments of her life in such an honest and examining way Tyler asks Jen who was her best model of kindness at a young age Jen shares the song that is reflecting her current vibe in the world And Tyler asks Jen what she wishes more people understood about her Thought-provoking Quotes: "Our stories, though they may seem new, are the things that change the world." - Jen Hatmaker “What I asked myself when deciding to include or exclude something was, am I going to be proud of this five years from now? So that's five years further down the road. I'm going to be five years more mature, five years more healed, five more years of distance. Will I be proud of what I say five years from now? And I let that be my guide.” – Jen Hatmaker “It's been weird to be at that center of people's judgment for quite a long time now.  I've evolved a lot in the public eye, which is weird for everybody. It's weird for me. It's weird for people to watch. At all points along the way, I can say sincerely, I have really and truly been trying to do my best. I just wish people knew that.” – Jen Hatmaker “My story is not special and I think that's what makes it important. I hope that the readers will see their own story inside of it somewhere in some way on some level and then decide to take from mine what they need for theirs. So I can't wait to find out.” – Jen Hatmaker Resources Mentioned in This Episode: Depoe Bay, Oregon – https://visittheoregoncoast.com/cities/depoe-bay/ Awake: A Memoir by Jen Hatmaker - https://amzn.to/40MYuXs Jen shares the first line from Awake – https://www.instagram.com/reel/DMrDdj4sCaQ/?utm_source=ig_web_copy_link&igsh=ZzdzZGdvM3h5Mmd6 This Changes Everything: A Surprisingly Funny Story About Race, Cancer, Faith, and Other Things We Don’t Talk About by Tyler Merritt – https://amzn.to/4m135Oj Brené Brown – https://brenebrown.com/ Before You Call The Cops by The Tyler Merritt Project – https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oGu_xGBekpo I Take My Coffee Black: Reflections on Tupac, Musical Theater, Faith, and Being Black in America by Tyler Merritt – https://amzn.to/47by9Gf Luna Sea Fish House in Yachats, Oregon – https://www.lunaseafishhouse.com/ Buy My Own Drinks by Runaway June – https://open.spotify.com/track/40p6WybX0YvcLdMlLja3oL A Door Made for Me by Tyler Merritt – https://amzn.to/4mv4jBd A Long December by Counting Crows - https://open.spotify.com/track/1tjKIXd7DYNklhVSgBxREi Guest’s Links: Website - https://thetylermerrittproject.com/ Instagram - https://www.instagram.com/thetylermerrittproject/ Twitter - https://x.com/ttmproject Facebook - https://www.facebook.com/thetylermerrittproject Youtube - https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCPB48_JfK-VMnYQPTYyMX5Q Connect with Jen!Jen’s Website - https://jenhatmaker.com/ Jen’s Instagram - https://instagram.com/jenhatmakerJen’s Twitter - https://twitter.com/jenHatmaker/ Jen’s Facebook - https://facebook.com/jenhatmakerJen’s YouTube - https://www.youtube.com/user/JenHatmaker The For the Love Podcast is presented by Audacy. To learn more about listener data and our privacy practices visit: https://www.audacyinc.com/privacy-policy Learn more about your ad choices. Visit https://podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Recorded live from the Oregon coast on the final day of MeCamp, this special two-part conversation between Jen and her partner Tyler Merritt is the perfect blend of hilarity, heart, and honesty. In Part 1, Jen and Tyler share stories from their MeCamp adventures — including a whale-watching excursion that got a little too close for comfort, and a near-death boat ride they’ll never forget. They also reflect on the power of personal storytelling, how vulnerability has shown up in their lives and work, and why telling the truth (even when it’s awkward) can be both healing and hilarious. Discussing the impact of Tyler's viral video "Before You Call the Cops" to Jen's reflections on her upcoming book "Awake," this conversation reveals the transformative potential of embracing vulnerability. Tune in to discover how opening up about our most personal stories can not only heal us but also inspire others to see themselves in our narratives. Tyler talks about the most awkward moment he’s ever had because he opted to be vulnerable and honest instead of protecting his pride He and Jen discuss the hardest truths they’ve ever had to tell themselves And Tyler goes back into the annals to reveal his most embarrassing moment as a performer on stage Thought-provoking Quotes: “The spirit of MeCamp almost got us killed.”– Tyler Merritt “I'm aware that it's not every day that most people see a six foot two black man with dreadlocks crying in real life. I have never regretted a single moment in my life of being transparent about how I feel emotionally with somebody. Vulnerability has never kicked back at me in a negative way.”– Tyler Merritt “I think vulnerability begets vulnerability. Because I was saying who I am and I was allowing myself to be open to the world, the world was willing to take that. What it did within the black community is it allowed a lot of other black people to begin making their own videos going, before you call the cops, I just want you to know this about me. So it opened up a door of vulnerability that really allowed that to kind of echo.”– Tyler Merritt Resources Mentioned in This Episode: Depoe Bay, Oregon – https://visittheoregoncoast.com/cities/depoe-bay/ Awake: A Memoir by Jen Hatmaker - https://amzn.to/40MYuXs Jen shares the first line from Awake – https://www.instagram.com/reel/DMrDdj4sCaQ/?utm_source=ig_web_copy_link&igsh=ZzdzZGdvM3h5Mmd6 This Changes Everything: A Surprisingly Funny Story About Race, Cancer, Faith, and Other Things We Don’t Talk About by Tyler Merritt – https://amzn.to/4m135Oj Brené Brown – https://brenebrown.com/ Before You Call The Cops by The Tyler Merritt Project – https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oGu_xGBekpo I Take My Coffee Black: Reflections on Tupac, Musical Theater, Faith, and Being Black in America by Tyler Merritt – https://amzn.to/47by9Gf Luna Sea Fish House in Yachats, Oregon – https://www.lunaseafishhouse.com/ Buy My Own Drinks by Runaway June – https://open.spotify.com/track/40p6WybX0YvcLdMlLja3oL A Door Made for Me by Tyler Merritt – https://amzn.to/4mv4jBd A Long December by Counting Crows - https://open.spotify.com/track/1tjKIXd7DYNklhVSgBxREi Guest’s Links: Website - https://thetylermerrittproject.com/ Instagram - https://www.instagram.com/thetylermerrittproject/ Twitter - https://x.com/ttmproject Facebook - https://www.facebook.com/thetylermerrittproject Youtube - https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCPB48_JfK-VMnYQPTYyMX5Q Connect with Jen!Jen’s Website - https://jenhatmaker.com/ Jen’s Instagram - https://instagram.com/jenhatmakerJen’s Twitter - https://twitter.com/jenHatmaker/ Jen’s Facebook - https://facebook.com/jenhatmakerJen’s YouTube - https://www.youtube.com/user/JenHatmaker The For the Love Podcast is presented by Audacy. To learn more about listener data and our privacy practices visit: https://www.audacyinc.com/privacy-policy Learn more about your ad choices. Visit https://podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Chris Whitaker didn’t come to writing the usual way. His path began with a series of harrowing experiences in young adulthood that left him searching for tools to process trauma and find peace. As a boy, he’d found comfort in libraries, and it was there he discovered a book on writing-as-therapy that encouraged him to fictionalize his pain and set stories in places of joy. Writing became a lifeline—and the foundation for the emotionally rich characters that define his work. Chris’ personal story deeply informs his bestselling novels, including We Begin at the End and our July JHBC selection, All the Colors of the Dark, resonating with readers worldwide through their authenticity and heart. Join us as we explore his remarkable journey—from pain to page—and the healing power of storytelling. Thought-provoking Quotes: “I didn't set out to write such a sprawling, massive book. I had a simple, top line pitch and then I began writing it and it evolved into like this just epic book.” – Chris Whitaker “I thought the book's probably not going to fit neatly into a genre because life never does, you know? There might be a crime in it, but it's the least interesting thing in the book. It's going to probably be a coming of age story, definitely a story of friendship, definitely a look at family and first love and, and pirates and beekeepers as well. Obviously.” – Chris Whitaker “I wanted everything to lead somewhere. Everything that you think is a throwaway in the story, every line that seems like it doesn't quite fit, it leads somewhere. The entire story is a network that is leading you towards the answer.” – Chris Whitaker Resources Mentioned in This Episode: Jen’s post about reading All The Colors of the Dark while on a ski trip – http://bit.ly/4kVA5qt We Begin at the End by Chris Whitaker - https://amzn.to/4lrONFL Amy Einhorn, Editor - https://www.publishersweekly.com/pw/by-topic/industry-news/people/article/93078-amy-einhorn-named-fiction-publisher-at-crown.html  The Last Child: A Novel by John Hart - https://amzn.to/4nyXcsT Nita Prose, author - https://www.nitaprose.com/ Tall Oaks by Chris Whitaker - https://amzn.to/40dYSOc A Prayer for Owen Meany: A Novel by John Irving - https://amzn.to/4kb8UH9 Tomorrow, and Tomorrow, and Tomorrow: A Novel by Gabrielled Zevin Guest’s Links: Website - https://sites.prh.com/chriswhitaker Instagram - https://www.instagram.com/chriswhitakerauthor/ Twitter - https://x.com/whittyauthor Connect with Jen!Jen’s Website - https://jenhatmaker.com/ Jen’s Instagram - https://instagram.com/jenhatmakerJen’s Twitter - https://twitter.com/jenHatmaker/ Jen’s Facebook - https://facebook.com/jenhatmakerJen’s YouTube - https://www.youtube.com/user/JenHatmaker The For the Love Podcast is presented by Audacy.  To learn more about listener data and our privacy practices visit: https://www.audacyinc.com/privacy-policy Learn more about your ad choices. Visit https://podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Description: What happens when the faith you were raised with no longer fits? Join us as we explore faith deconstruction and what it looks like to hold on to what matters while letting go of harmful narratives. Our guest, Mary Katherine Backstrom, knows this journey well. Once rooted in evangelical certainty, her world began to unravel—her marriage, career, and faith all shaken. In her raw and hilarious memoir, Not That Wheel Jesus, MK shares what it was like to question everything, wrestle with purity culture’s impact, and walk through the grief of lost certainties. As she puts it: “I walked through the rubble, I danced in the fire pits with my friends, and I've emerged into this quiet post-apocalyptic space where I can hear my own voice.” Whether you’re navigating your own faith shift or just curious, this conversation will resonate. And don’t forget—you can leave us your thoughts at jenhatmaker.com/podcast! Thought-provoking Quotes: “Everybody I speak to that's been on a growth journey of any sort—spiritual, emotional, whatever—you get to a point where you realize that confidence comes from not knowing everything and being at peace with what you can't figure out.” – MK Backstrom “It felt like I was looking at my life and feeling  like there's so much loss here, especially my sexuality. My church robbed me of joy. And that's the opposite of what was promised. Once I realized I participated in that behavior, I was able to make amends.” – MK Backstrom  “When I walk into that [church] space, it feels like going into a home where a child experienced abuse. I don't know that that's going to leave my body for a very long time. And it doesn't mean that I'm never gonna go back, but I also listen to myself better now and I'm not going to go somewhere where my body feels like it's on fire.” – MK Backstrom “My body is still responding to everything it's experienced for 40 years in the church. And I'm finally getting to the place where I'm starting to understand what my baseline feels like.” – MK Backstrom “If there is a God worth worshiping and there's a life worth living, those things can stand up to your big questions. No God is so fragile that your human curiosity is going to break this to pieces. No problem is so big in your life that you're not gonna get up and keep moving. There's a lot of freedom after the fear. Trust the process, ask questions.” – MK Backstrom Resources Mentioned in This Episode: Holy Hot Mess: Finding God in the Details of this Weird and Wonderful Life by Mary Katherine Backstrom - https://amzn.to/3ZV5GAi Not That Wheel, Jesus!: Stories From a Faith That Went Off-Road in the Best (and Worst) Possible Ways by Mary Katherine Backstrom - https://amzn.to/45KbY9v Rachel Held Evans - https://rachelheldevans.com/ Searching for Sunday: Loving, Leaving, and Finding the Church by Rachel Held Evans - https://amzn.to/4lxKkRY Dallas Willard - https://dwillard.org/ Sarah Bessey - https://www.sarahbessey.com/ Sex MeCourse - https://shop.jenhatmaker.com/products/sex-101 Dr. Celeste Holbrook - https://www.drcelesteholbrook.com/ Guest’s Links: Website - https://www.mkbackstrom.com/ Twitter - https://x.com/mkbackstrom Facebook - https://www.facebook.com/MKBackstrom TikTok - https://www.tiktok.com/@marykatherinebackstrom Substack - https://marykatherinebackstrom.substack.com/ Connect with Jen!Jen’s Website - https://jenhatmaker.com/ Jen’s Instagram - https://instagram.com/jenhatmakerJen’s Twitter - https://twitter.com/jenHatmaker/ Jen’s Facebook - https://facebook.com/jenhatmakerJen’s YouTube - https://www.youtube.com/user/JenHatmaker The For the Love Podcast is presented by Audacy. To learn more about listener data and our privacy practices visit: https://www.audacyinc.com/privacy-policy Learn more about your ad choices. Visit https://podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Description: We’ve got an absolute legend in the house. She's a country music powerhouse, a Grammy winner, a TV star, a best-selling cookbook author, and honestly, probably the only person who could out-sing you and out-cook you on the same day — we’re talking about the one and only Trisha Yearwood. You know this queen’s voice from classics like 'She's in Love with the Boy' and 'How Do I Live' — songs that have made us cry, and belt in our cars, and maybe text someone we shouldn’t. And now, she’s back with a brand new album called The Mirror — and let us tell you, it’s not just a comeback, it’s a reflection, literally. It’s raw, it’s real, and it’s perhaps her most vulnerable project yet. The Mirror is Trisha’s first album where she’s co-written every song, stepping into new creative territory as both a singer and songwriter. It’s a window into Trisha’s life at this moment—a culmination of decades in the spotlight, but told on her own terms. It’s not just an album—it’s a statement of identity, and an invitation to look at yourself with courage and compassion. We’re talking about life, love, growth, and how Trisha continues to reinvent herself while staying grounded in what matters. So grab a coffee, or something stronger, and get comfy — because Trisha and Jen are inviting us into their conversation on how we let go of the things that no longer fit who we are so we can embrace the things putting fresh wind at our backs. Thought-provoking Quotes: “There’s something in me that really believes in me. It has to be or I wouldn't be sitting here doing these things.”– Trisha Yearwood “I've never been a person who could answer the question, ‘where do you see yourself in the next five years?’ I just know that I'm open to the opportunities.”– Trisha Yearwood “For a long time. I let the approval part of me drive the car. I drove that car to plenty of places I was out of alignment with. I don't think I'll ever be completely rid of that voice, but she's in the backseat now. She's not driving the car anymore.”– Trisha Yearwood “Songwriting makes you instantly intimate because you're having to be really vulnerable.”– Trisha Yearwood “From a young age, a lot of women are taught that we don't get to write our own story and we don't get to take control. But you get to decide what the truth about you is and how you want your life to be.”– Trisha Yearwood Resources Mentioned in This Episode: The Mirror Album by Trisha Yearwood - https://trishayearwood.lnk.to/TheMirror Trisha’s Southern Kitchen on Food Network - https://www.foodnetwork.com/shows/trishas-southern-kitchen Dry Needling - https://my.clevelandclinic.org/health/treatments/16542-dry-needling Frozen Shoulder in Menopause - https://bit.ly/44NNOJi Awake: a Memoir by Jen Hatmaker - https://amzn.to/40Og791 Walkaway Joe - https://open.spotify.com/track/5pzoq7ggrA0GN3SMjy0NT8 She’s in Love with a Boy - https://open.spotify.com/track/4EJvW4NHAk7TrIeX44jjXF The Song Remembers When - https://open.spotify.com/track/4dS7TYCTGKyhs9ZDt8iPcT The Bluebird Cafe - https://bluebirdcafe.com/ TalkShopLive - https://talkshop.live/channels/trishayearwood Guest’s Links: Website - https://www.trishayearwood.com/ Instagram - https://www.instagram.com/TrishaYearwood Twitter - https://x.com/TrishaYearwood Facebook - https://www.facebook.com/TrishaYearwood Youtube - https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCw0Nn2LTsXGB0rP53Z0ACWQ TikTok - https://www.tiktok.com/@itstrishayearwood Connect with Jen!Jen’s Website - https://jenhatmaker.com/ Jen’s Instagram - https://instagram.com/jenhatmakerJen’s Twitter - https://twitter.com/jenHatmaker/ Jen’s Facebook - https://facebook.com/jenhatmakerJen’s YouTube - https://www.youtube.com/user/JenHatmaker The For the Love Podcast is presented by Audacy. To learn more about listener data and our privacy practices visit: https://www.audacyinc.com/privacy-policy Learn more about your ad choices. Visit https://podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Priyanka Chopra is an award-winning actor, producer, and humanitarian—and one of the most recognizable faces in the world. In this 2021 conversation, she reflects on her memoir Unfinished, sharing her journey from India to the U.S. and the lessons she’s learned about identity, ambition, and reinvention. Priyanka talks about the power of perseverance, trusting your instincts, and embracing failure as part of success. She reminds us that it's never too late to start again—and you’re always allowed to say yes to your dreams. Thought-provoking Quotes: “There is something profoundly wonderful about blooming a little later in your story. It's never too late. Everything you've done is a foundation for what you'll do next. It might not come up for a couple of years, but you will find out eventually, that made my life richer. This made my skillset better. Like nothing is ever wasted if you're doing something you're passionate about.” – Jen Hatmaker “I am at a much more confident place that the insecurities of my past don’t affect me anymore.” – Priyanka Chopra  “Anything is a possibility. You can make a career out of anything. When I was growing up, there were like five career options – you could become a doctor, or an engineer, or a lawyer, or an accountant… But now, it’s endless. It’s such a great time for all of us with ambition and desire, no matter where you are, or what your circumstances are, to invest in your dreams.” – Priyanka Chopra Jonas “My feminism is equal-opportunity, the freedom to make the choices I want to make for my individual  life, just the way men have enjoyed for such a long time. That’s why its so important for us as women to talk about and normalize ambition for girls.” – Priyanka Chopra Jonas “I truly believe that today is my investment for tomorrow. I hope with all of the decisions that I’m taking now, and will take in the next ten years, the girl I am at that time will be happy. That’s really my quest in my life, is the pursuit of happiness. I feel joy in my job, I feel joy in home, I feel joy in my family. I feel joy in being able to create. And I just look at it as, if you’re not happy, don’t do it. Step away from it.” – Priyanka Chopra Jonas Resources Mentioned in This Episode: Ambition is a Girl’s Best Friend: Priyanka Chopra on Reconnecting with Our Dreams - https://jenhatmaker.com/podcasts/series-32/ambition-is-a-girls-best-friend-priyanka-chopra-jonas-on-reconnecting-with-our-dreams/ Unfinished by Priyanka Chopra Jonas - https://amzn.to/2Zf5ps8 73 Questions with Priyanka Chopra, Vogue - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dOUV2rwMr1g Priyanka Chopra on the For the Love podcast (Youtube) - https://youtu.be/G1k83Tx6U34 It’s Okay To Be a Late Bloomer: Forbes Magazine’s Rich Karlgaard - https://jenhatmaker.com/podcasts/series-17/its-okay-to-be-a-late-bloomer-forbes-magazines-rich-karlgaard/ Late Bloomers: The Power of Patience in a World Obsessed with Early Achievement by Rich Karlgaard - https://amzn.to/4kvW1IC Miss World 2000 - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Miss_World_2000 Guest’s Links: Instagram - https://www.instagram.com/priyankachopra/ Twitter - https://x.com/priyankachopra Facebook - https://www.facebook.com/priyankachopra Youtube - https://www.youtube.com/user/PriyankaChopraLive TikTok - https://www.tiktok.com/@priyankachopra.fp Connect with Jen!Jen’s Website - https://jenhatmaker.com/ Jen’s Instagram - https://instagram.com/jenhatmakerJen’s Twitter - https://twitter.com/jenHatmaker/ Jen’s Facebook - https://facebook.com/jenhatmakerJen’s YouTube - https://www.youtube.com/user/JenHatmaker The For the Love Podcast is presented by Audacy. To learn more about listener data and our privacy practices visit: https://www.audacyinc.com/privacy-policy Learn more about your ad choices. Visit https://podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Jen has been a quiet superfan of David Gate ever since discovering one of his poems on Instagram and instantly texting it to six friends. A British-born poet, writer, and visual artist, David explores themes of care, community, and spiritual resilience. Today, he joins Jen and Amy to talk about his latest work, A Rebellion of Care—a powerful blend of essays and poetry rooted in tenderness, authenticity, and resistance. From writing to flour milling and homesteading, David’s life is a living practice of nurturing both self and community with intention. Key highlights from this conversation include:  How radical tenderness can be an act of resistance Why are many people living  radicalized lives without realizing it, and often for things they don't truly care about How homesteading is a rebellion against modern food practices Reimagining masculinity and what it could look like in a better world Building community and friendship as a vital source of joy and support in life How anger and joy are companion emotions The sacredness of everyday practices Thought-provoking Quotes: “I did not want to have an email job and I did not want to be in meetings that could have been emails. I did not want to be on Slack. I just didn't want that to be what I was spending my time doing. I loved caring for people, and I loved creating and writing, and I got to do that within the church world.” – David Gate “It's just very hard not to be cynical about everything and what I found was that I was cynical because I really, really cared. And, because I really, really cared, everything was just so overwhelming, and the easiest way to deal with that was to shut down and be cynical and be snarky. But, I realized that I had to press through and embrace what was behind that cynicism. so I had to really embrace my own earnestness and my own care in the world and concentrate on what I wanted to build rather than what I wanted to tear down.” – David Gate “It’s a constant battle to speak the truth. Even things we all know It can be difficult to say, if it's not something that is normally said, and it's not something that is normally expressed, so you have to fight for that and you have to fight for your experience of the truth. You have to fight for your story. You have to fight for all of that.” – David Gate “I think it's very, very difficult for men to reach for emotional honesty because everything tells you that you're failing if you do that. But it's the most important work right now. And so much of what men are actually looking for in this world, intimacy, a sense of place, a sense of belonging, companionship, adventure, excitement, is on the other side of reaching for that emotional honesty.” – David Gate Resources Mentioned in This Episode: A Rebellion of Care: Poems and Essays by David Gate - https://amzn.to/4jjf87X Good Soil: The Education of an Accidental Farmhand by Jeff Chu - https://amzn.to/3GnS21w Cultivating Belonging and Evolving Faith with Jeff Chu - https://jenhatmaker.com/podcasts/series-64/cultivating-belonging-and-evolving-faith-with-jeff-chu/ Sarah Bessey - https://www.sarahbessey.com/ Armando Veve, Illustrator - https://www.instagram.com/armandoveve/ Awake: A Memoir by Jen Hatmaker - https://amzn.to/3YHKgpw Sinners film (2025) - https://www.imdb.com/title/tt31193180/ Malaprop's Bookstore, Asheville - https://www.malaprops.com/ Guest’s Links: Website - https://www.davidgatepoet.com/ Instagram - https://www.instagram.com/davidgatepoet/ Substack - https://substack.com/@davidgatepoet Connect with Jen!Jen’s Website - https://jenhatmaker.com/ Jen’s Instagram - https://instagram.com/jenhatmakerJen’s Twitter - https://twitter.com/jenHatmaker/ Jen’s Facebook - https://facebook.com/jenhatmakerJen’s YouTube - https://www.youtube.com/user/JenHatmaker The For the Love Podcast is presented by Audacy.  To learn more about listener data and our privacy practices visit: https://www.audacyinc.com/privacy-policy Learn more about your ad choices. Visit https://podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Jennie Garth is best known to Gen-Xers for her iconic role playing Kelly Taylor on the megahit television series Beverly Hills 90210.  Fans of the show may remember Kelly’s pivotal “I Choose Me” episode (airing thirty years ago this past May) when she stood between dreamboats Brandon and Dylan and declared that she was choosing herself.  Jennie shaped an entire era of pop culture, and now, at fifty-two, she is embracing an incredible new chapter of life—one filled with bold conversations about aging, empowerment, self-love, and the beautiful messiness of midlife. Through her thought-provoking “I Choose Me” podcast and a forthcoming memoir of the same name, Jennie is using her platform to champion other women over fifty by challenging outdated narratives around aging and sparking empowering conversations. Today, Jennie, Jen and Amy talk about what choosing yourself looks like on a normal day, and what it means to be graduate beyond our growing family years into a more independent space where a new age of self-discovery is possible because, as Jennie reminds us, choosing “you” isn’t selfish—it’s the most powerful act of self-respect. Thought-provoking Quotes: “It was through my conversations with fans, whether it was on social media. or at autograph events that I kept hearing, ‘I didn't know I could choose me until Kelly Taylor told me it was an option.’” – Jennie Garth “If I had gone to college and lived a normal life, then I would have learned things that I didn't actually end up learning until I was in my forties and fifties. So now I'm just searching like, ‘What did I miss and how can I be better? How can I learn more about myself?’” – Jennie Garth “You look around on social media and you see other people's lives and think, ‘My God, they have it all figured out.’ And I just never felt like that personally.” – Jennie Garth “Loving yourself is a journey and it’s imperative to your wellbeing.” – Jennie Garth “I don’t want to please people by being what they want me to be or fitting into this character's shoes. I love acting and I'll never not love acting. But I had to take the bull by the horns and take control of my life.” – Jennie Garth “Competition amongst women was real. It was just part of the  world I grew up in. I had to be better than the next girl. What a waste of so much precious time and energy. I used to be intimidated by other women's success or knowledge or position. I kick myself for all the years of lost opportunity of that kind of camaraderie and connection with other women. I feel it so strongly now. It's something that can never be quieted again,” – Jennie Garth Resources Mentioned in This Episode: Beverly Hills, 90210 (1990-2000) - https://www.imdb.com/title/tt0098749/ Tori Spelling - https://www.instagram.com/p/DKAANczu145/?hl=en I Choose Me Women’s Summit 2025 - https://jenniegarth.com/pages/i-choose-me-movement I Choose Me: Chasing Joy, Finding Purpose & Embracing Reinvention by Jennie Garth - https://amzn.to/44d8eMM Me by Jennie Garth QVC Collection - https://jenniegarth.com/pages/me-by-jennie-garth Feeding America - https://www.feedingamerica.org/partners/entertainment-council/jennie-garth American Heart Association - https://www.heart.org/en/health-topics/at-the-heart-of-it-with-nancy-brown/the-power-of-positivity-with-jennie-garth Guest’s Links: Website - https://jenniegarth.com/ Instagram - https://www.instagram.com/jenniegarth/ Twitter - https://x.com/jenniegarth Facebook - https://www.facebook.com/jenniegarth TikTok - https://www.tiktok.com/@officialjenniegarth Podcast - https://jenniegarth.com/pages/i-choose-me-podcast Connect with Jen!Jen’s Website - https://jenhatmaker.com/ Jen’s Instagram - https://instagram.com/jenhatmakerJen’s Twitter - https://twitter.com/jenHatmaker/ Jen’s Facebook - https://facebook.com/jenhatmakerJen’s YouTube - https://www.youtube.com/user/JenHatmaker The For the Love Podcast is presented by Audacy.  To learn more about listener data and our privacy practices visit: https://www.audacyinc.com/privacy-policy Learn more about your ad choices. Visit https://podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Description: As a former TV producer turned novelist, Sophie Cousens’ books have been published in over 20 languages. Her previous novels—including This Time Next Year and Before I Do—have delighted readers around the world with their warmth, humor, and honest portrayal of love in all its messy, beautiful forms. Today, we sit down with Sophie to discuss her decade of experience producing some of our favorite TV shows like The Graham Norton Show and Big Brother and how that valuable experience behind the scenes in television shaped the way she now tells stories as a novelist, allowing her to thread the needle between heartfelt and funny, heartwarming and satirical. We talk about her approach to writing—does she prefer to start with a character or a plot?--as well as how she brilliantly employs a variety of  familiar rom-com setups (friends-to-lovers, missed connections, etc.) yet, they never feel overt or cliché. If you’ve ever tried to date post-divorce, juggled motherhood with figuring out who the heck you even are anymore, or questioned whether love in your 40s is even worth it—you’re going to enjoy today’s conversation about our June JHBC selection, Is She Really Going Out With Him?  With nods to fairy tales, dating apps, and the iconic Joe Jackson song that inspired the title, the book asks: how do you start over when you’re not 22 anymore—and how do you know when it’s real? Thought-provoking Quotes: “I’ve been a producer on shows that were much more produced—you've got a script, you've got a plan, you know exactly what you're getting; whereas with [Big Brother] we were just dealing with real people and real people's emotions and the experience of being in this slight madhouse.” – Sophie Cousens “Tropes are enduring because they are beloved. Sometimes, that word has a negative connotation but, in this case, it’s not true. These are story tropes that readers love. I love how you talk about them and go, no, I’m not going to steer away from them or try to reinvent them or try to avoid them. I’m going to go full-in.” – Jen Hatmaker “I absolutely love films of that 90s and 2000s era. That’s very much the tone in which I write. I think there’s something pure and simple about that era of films, which is why so many of them are enduring.” – Sophie Cousens Resources Mentioned in This Episode: Russel Howard’s Good News - https://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/b00phwkz The Graham Norton Show - https://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/b006xnzc Big Brother - https://www.cbs.com/shows/big_brother/ Notting Hill (1999) - https://www.imdb.com/title/tt0125439/ Bridget Jones’s Diary by Helen Fielding - https://amzn.to/4dJsJ6y Just Haven’t Met You Yet by Sophie Cousens - https://amzn.to/45IC4tt And Then There Was You by Sophie Cousens COMING NOVEMBER 2025 - https://amzn.to/3Fq5SR4 Romy and Michelle’s High School Reunion (1997)  - https://www.imdb.com/title/tt0120032/ Claudia Jessie (Eloise Bridgerton) - https://www.instagram.com/claudiajessies/?hl=en Atmosphere: A Love Story by Taylor Jenkins Reid - https://amzn.to/4mYRzUk Great, Big, Beautiful Life by Emily Henry - https://amzn.to/43IRYTp Julia Whelan, audio narrator - https://jmwhelan.com/narrator/ The Husbands: A Novel by Holly Gramazio - https://amzn.to/4dQnNx5 Holly Bourne, author - https://hollybourne.co.uk/ Guest’s Links: Website - https://www.sophiecousens.com/ Instagram - https://www.instagram.com/sophie_cousens/ Twitter - https://x.com/sophiecous Facebook - https://www.facebook.com/sophiecousensauthor Connect with Jen!Jen’s Website - https://jenhatmaker.com/ Jen’s Instagram - https://instagram.com/jenhatmakerJen’s Twitter - https://twitter.com/jenHatmaker/ Jen’s Facebook - https://facebook.com/jenhatmakerJen’s YouTube - https://www.youtube.com/user/JenHatmaker The For the Love Podcast is presented by Audacy. To learn more about listener data and our privacy practices visit: https://www.audacyinc.com/privacy-policy Learn more about your ad choices. Visit https://podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Bishop Mariann Edgar Budde is a leading voice in modern faith leadership and the first woman elected to serve as Bishop of the Episcopal Diocese of Washington, a role she’s held since 2011. While the job isn’t always glamorous, she says, the sacred moments in the public eye matter deeply—and she treats them with care. Bishop Budde gained national attention for boldly speaking out against the Trump administration, including condemning the 2020 photo-op at St. John’s Episcopal Church and, more recently, offering a prayer for LGBTQ+ justice with President Trump and Vice President Vance seated before her. Her calm, courageous leadership has made her one of the most trusted voices in public faith today. In this conversation with Jen, Bishop Budde shares her journey from a small Minnesota congregation to the national stage—and how she finds the courage to speak truth to power and stand with the marginalized, even when the cost is high. Thought-provoking Quotes: “I think, in some ways, vocations choose you as much as you choose them.” – Mariann Edgar Budde “It's not as if the world stopped on January 21st. So much is happening every single day and there are consequences to the decisions being made.” – Mariann Edgar Budde “I wouldn't have chosen the way they're going, but a lot is being dismantled right now and we've got to be there to help rebuild.”  – Mariann Edgar Budde Resources Mentioned in This Episode: Raygun: Bishop Budde Fan Club T-Shirt - https://www.raygunsite.com/products/bishop-budde-fan-club Receiving Jesus: The Way of Love by Mariann Edgar Budde - https://amzn.to/45GO5jh How We Learn to Be Brave: Decisive Moments in Life and Faith by Mariann Edgar Budde - https://amzn.to/4kbZtan Sermon by The Right Rev. Mariann Edgar Budde | Washington National Cathedral, 1.21.25 - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xwwaEuDeqM8 Love is the Game Changer of Our Faith: Bishop Michael Curry - https://jenhatmaker.com/podcasts/series-24/love-is-the-game-changer-of-our-faith-bishop-michael-curry/ Goodness Triumphs Through Good People: A Year-End Benediction from Bishop Michael Curry – https://jenhatmaker.com/podcasts/series-39/goodness-triumphs-through-good-people-a-year-end-benediction-from-bishop-michael-curry/ Austin Channing Brown - https://austinchanning.com/ Tim Shriver - https://www.timothyshriver.com/ The Dignity Index - https://www.timothyshriver.com/projects/the-dignity-index Jen Hatmaker Traded Religious Rules for Spiritual Practices - https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/jen-hatmaker-traded-religious-rules-for-spiritual-practices/id1765227660?i=1000691362907 Building Bridges, Not Walls: Tim Shriver on Dignity that Transcends Disagreements - https://jenhatmaker.com/podcasts/series-64/building-bridges-not-walls-tim-shriver-on-dignity-that-transcends-disagreements/ Bryan Stevenson - https://eji.org/bryan-stevenson/ I Believe in the Sun - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mplEEQn5znA&t=112s Guest’s Links: Website - https://edow.org/about/bishop-mariann/ Instagram - https://www.instagram.com/mariannbudde Facebook - https://www.facebook.com/bishopmariannbudde TikTok - https://www.tiktok.com/@mariann_edgar_budde_ Connect with Jen!Jen’s Website - https://jenhatmaker.com/ Jen’s Instagram - https://instagram.com/jenhatmakerJen’s Twitter - https://twitter.com/jenHatmaker/ Jen’s Facebook - https://facebook.com/jenhatmakerJen’s YouTube - https://www.youtube.com/user/JenHatmaker The For the Love Podcast is presented by Audacy. To learn more about listener data and our privacy practices visit: https://www.audacyinc.com/privacy-policy Learn more about your ad choices. Visit https://podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Description: Katie Sturino is one of those people who makes you feel instantly braver just by being in the room. With her bold fashion choices, unfiltered honesty, and joyful presence online, the powerhouse founder of Megababe, style influencer, and unapologetic voice for body confidence has inspired so many of us to rethink how we see our bodies and ourselves. Her first book Body Talk, part memoir, part manifesto, focused on the all too important topic of learning to love the skin you’re in. Now, she’s back—and this time, she’s putting her hand to fiction! Of course, we wanted to talk to this multi-hyphenate about what it’s like flexing yet another new muscle. Katie and Jen talk about the inspiration behind Sunny Side Up, a book Jennifer Weiner has called a modern-day Bridget Jones’ Diary (without the toxic self-loathing) and Katie shares what the writing process was like, an experience Katie  equated to being put through a pasta machine. She and Jen also reminisce about when they first met almost a year ago—backstage at an Oprah special and the grueling decisions they grabbed with (as so many women do for such an event)—what to wear.  Thought-provoking Quotes: “I lead with solution. That is the thing that's consistent for me because I love business. I love talking to people about the businesses they wanna start, the businesses that they're running. I like solving problems.” – Katie Sturino “We love turning on a woman online. We love it—everything from Meghan Markle dancing in birthing room and Blake Lively. We just love turning on women. It’s like sport.” Katie Sturino “I don't have the MBA. I feel like most businesses that are dreamed up are done in a Harvard think tank, and I don't have that. So that's another thing that I feel insecure about, because whenever I'm up on panels or in a room full of similar founders, their stories have a really specific ladder and I'm like in my parents’ garage, you know, it's different.” – Katie Sturino “Writing this book was the hardest thing I have ever done. This was awful. I'm gonna say that out loud so that if anyone out there is like, I'm gonna write a book one day—pop that bubble! Pop that bubble! It's not you in a cozy room with a typewriter and a mug. It's like open eyeball surgery while you're awake. It's really hard.” – Katie Sturino Resources Mentioned in This Episode: Making the Shift: A new way to think about weight - https://www.weightwatchers.com/makingtheshift/ Megababe - https://megababebeauty.com/ The Deodorant Jen swears by - https://megababebeauty.com/collections/pits Sunny Side Up: A Novel by Katie Sturino - https://amzn.to/3SLK1qd Tressie McMillan Cottom - https://tressiemc.com/ Using Storytelling to Address Complex Social Issues: Dr. Tressie McMillan Cottom - https://jenhatmaker.com/podcasts/series-64/using-storytelling-to-address-complex-social-issues-dr-tressie-mcmillan-cottom/ #SupersizeTheLook - https://www.instagram.com/explore/search/keyword/?q=%23supersizethelook Kitty & Vibe: Katie Sturino Swimsuit Collection - https://www.kittyandvibe.com/collections/sunny-side-up Guest’s Links: Website - https://megababebeauty.com/pages/about Instagram - https://www.instagram.com/katiesturino/ Youtube - https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCmlgRDiOCywtaamAc5q-7VQ TikTok - https://www.tiktok.com/@katiesturino Substack - https://katiesturino.substack.com/p/katie-sturino-writer Podcast - https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/boob-sweat-with-katie-sturino/id1483683205 Connect with Jen!Jen’s Website - https://jenhatmaker.com/ Jen’s Instagram - https://instagram.com/jenhatmakerJen’s Twitter - https://twitter.com/jenHatmaker/ Jen’s Facebook - https://facebook.com/jenhatmakerJen’s YouTube - https://www.youtube.com/user/JenHatmaker The For the Love Podcast is presented by Audacy.  To learn more about listener data and our privacy practices visit: https://www.audacyinc.com/privacy-policy Learn more about your ad choices. Visit https://podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Description: Today, we’re revisiting a pivotal conversation that changed the course of Jen’s life and career. In 2016, during what was expected to be a routine interview with journalist Jonathan Merritt, Jen found herself speaking publicly for the first time about her views on abortion, politics, and LGBTQ+ issues—beliefs she had been wrestling with privately for over a year. While she was confident in her answers, she was unprepared for the backlash that followed. In this encore episode, Jen and Jonathan reflect on that moment and its ripple effects. Jonathan shares his own parallel journey—growing up as the son of a megachurch pastor, internalizing the “love the sinner, hate the sin” message, and later confronting his own identity as a gay man. His story, like Jen’s, became public in ways he never expected, leading him on a path of deeper truth, faith, and purpose. Thought-provoking Quotes: “You told the truth. You were ready for this interview. You had actually been doing the work for a decade to be ready to answer those questions honestly. But, your PR wasn't ready.” – Amy Hardin “The best way to live is true. No matter what you think it will cost or what it does cost you, the cost is worth the reward.” – Jen Hatmaker Resources Mentioned in This Episode: Religion News Service - https://religionnews.com/about-rns/ Jen Hatmaker: Trump, Black Lives Matter, gay marriage and more by Jonathan Merritt - https://www.jonathanmerritt.com/article/jen-hatmaker-trump-black-lives-matter-gay-marriage Growing Up Evangelical and Gay with Jonathan Merritt - https://jenhatmaker.com/podcasts/series-63/growing-up-evangelical-and-gay-with-jonathan-merritt/ My Saddest Good Friday in Memory: When Treasured Things are Dead - https://jenhatmaker.com/my-saddest-good-friday-in-memory-when-treasured-things-are-dead/ Love is the Game Changer of Our Faith: Bishop Michael Curry - https://jenhatmaker.com/podcast/series-24/love-is-the-game-changer-of-our-faith-bishop-michael-curry/ How to Create a Politics of Love: Lisa Sharon Harper - https://jenhatmaker.com/podcast/series-24/how-to-create-a-politics-of-love-lisa-sharon-harper/ Christian Rock Star Comes Out as Gay in Letter to the World - Jonathan Merritt - https://www.jonathanmerritt.com/article/christian-rock-star-admits-hes-gay-writes-letter-to-fans?rq=trey%20pearson Eugene Peterson on Changing His Mind About Same-Sex Issues and Marriage – Jonathan Merritt - https://www.jonathanmerritt.com/article/eugene-peterson-changing-mind-sex-issues-marriage?rq=eugene Leading Evangelical Ethicist is now Pro-LGBT (David Gushee) – Jonathan Merritt - https://www.jonathanmerritt.com/article/leading-evangelical-ethicist-now-pro-lgbt?rq=david A Faith of Our Own: Following Jesus Beyond the Culture Wars – Jonathan Merritt -  Dr. Michael Lindsay,  Sociologist & Author - https://www.taylor.edu/about/president-profile James Martin, Jesuit Priest - https://www.instagram.com/jamesmartinsj/ Guest’s Links: Website - https://www.jonathanmerritt.com/ Instagram - https://www.instagram.com/jonathan_merritt Twitter - https://x.com/JonathanMerritt Facebook - https://www.facebook.com/JonathanMerrittWriter Substack - https://jonathanmerritt.substack.com/ Connect with Jen!Jen’s Website - https://jenhatmaker.com/ Jen’s Instagram - https://instagram.com/jenhatmakerJen’s Twitter - https://twitter.com/jenHatmaker/ Jen’s Facebook - https://facebook.com/jenhatmakerJen’s YouTube - https://www.youtube.com/user/JenHatmaker The For the Love Podcast is presented by Audacy. To learn more about listener data and our privacy practices visit: https://www.audacyinc.com/privacy-policy Learn more about your ad choices. Visit https://podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Description: With over two decades of experience in the field, Vanessa Marin is on a mission to help people break down shame, talk openly about sex, and create truly intimate relationships. As a a licensed psychotherapist, sex educator, and bestselling author of Sex Talks: The Five Conversations That Will Transform Your Love Life, which she co-wrote with her husband, Xander, Vanessa brings a candid, humorous, and deeply compassionate voice to a topic that too often stays in the dark Whether your relationship is in a rut, your spark feels a little… dim, or you just want to feel more connected—to your partner and yourself—this one’s for you. Vanessa is going to help us say yes to communication, to connection, and maybe most of all, to pleasure. Some topics we dig into: Why we have knee-jerk reactions to sex rooted in shame Why Vanessa says you should start having sex like a man The myth about the female orgasm The best things for your sex life that have nothing to do with taking off your clothes The difference between spontaneous desire versus responsive desire Thought-provoking Quotes: “Despite not getting a great introduction to sex or intimacy or relationships, I had this intuitive sense that there should be joy with this act. There should be connection and intimacy, and it should be something I should feel excited to explore when the time is right.” – Vanessa Marin “This is literally what I am here on this earth for, is to help people get more comfortable talking about sex, connection, and intimacy.” – Vanessa Marin “A lot of people hear, she's a sex therapist. They must have this incredible sex life. the reality is, we've been through ups and downs, too. ” – Vanessa Marin “We get very little, if no, actual sex education. Most of us are left with movies, and TV, and porn as our only sex education. So it's totally understandable that most of us see these scenes and think, that's what I'm looking for. That's the kind of connection I'm supposed to have with my partner. But, the reality is the way that sex looks on TV and in the movies, that's designed for entertainment. It's designed to look good and be pretty. It's not what sex really looks like in real life.” – Vanessa Marin Research has shown that in male-female relationships, women are carrying the vast majority of the mental load. There is so much that is going through our heads on a daily basis—all this tracking, and preparing, and anticipating, and evaluating, our heads are just constantly going. And when you have so much in your brain, it makes it really hard to make the space for intimacy and desire too.” – Vanessa Marin Resources Mentioned in This Episode: Sex Talks: The Five Conversations That Will Transform Your Love Life by Vanessa Marin and Xander Marin - https://amzn.to/43VSwnS The Sex Talks Card Deck and Guidebook: 90 Prompts to Deepen Connection and Spark Intimacy - https://amzn.to/3Hys1xa Vanessa and Xander’s Deeper Monthly Membership - https://buy.vmtherapy.com/deeper Guest’s Links: Website - https://vmtherapy.com/about Instagram - https://www.instagram.com/vanessaandxander/ Twitter - https://x.com/VMTherapy Facebook - https://www.facebook.com/vanessaandxander/ Youtube - https://www.youtube.com/vanessamarin TikTok - https://www.tiktok.com/@vanessaandxander Pinterest - https://www.pinterest.com/vanessaandxander/_created/ Podcast - https://vmtherapy.com/podcast/ Connect with Jen!Jen’s Website - https://jenhatmaker.com/ Jen’s Instagram - https://instagram.com/jenhatmakerJen’s Twitter - https://twitter.com/jenHatmaker/ Jen’s Facebook - https://facebook.com/jenhatmakerJen’s YouTube - https://www.youtube.com/user/JenHatmaker The For the Love Podcast is presented by Audacy.  To learn more about listener data and our privacy practices visit: https://www.audacyinc.com/privacy-policy Learn more about your ad choices. Visit https://podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Description: KC Davis is a licensed professional counselor, an author, a speaker, and, frankly, one of the most compassionate, funny, down-to-earth voices out there. During the pandemic, she created an amazing platform called Struggle Care where she has been teaching us how to care for ourselves (and our homes) without stigma or shame. Like—if the laundry’s piled up or the dishes aren’t done, it doesn’t mean you’re lazy or broken. It just means you’re living life. It’s a gracious approach to self-care that we wildly embrace.  KC’s first book, How to Keep House While Drowning, was a total game-changer for so many women  who’ve felt overwhelmed by the everyday—and now she’s back with a brand new book called Who Deserves Your Love, helping us figure out which relationships we want to invest in, which ones need boundaries, and maybe even which ones we need to step away from.  This conversation goes to some deep places. We talk about: What mistreatment looks like in relationships, as opposed to abuse The stories that we tell ourselves about another person’s behavior when we get caught up in the vulnerability cycle What it means to be morally neutral How to use a relationship decision tree to evaluate and make decisions about a relationship And the sticky secret to enforcing boundaries With accessibility, humorous relatability, and vulnerability,  KC is here to help us navigate the messy, complicated work of loving people and loving ourselves. Thought-provoking Quotes: “Sometimes my publishers will give me some advice like, ‘Let’s project that you’re a credible expert’, meanwhile I’m shooting TikToks from the toilet.” – KC Davis “Despite being a therapist, I did not realize that I had severe postpartum depression because I didn't feel sad.” KC Davis “Messiness is not a moral failing. Either your messiness is just a part of your personality and it's pretty functional for you and you don't need to change anything and accept yourself or maybe it's because you're having a hard time.” – KC Davis “No one has ever shamed themselves into better mental health.” – KC Davis “Self-care is not the thing you do to make yourself not struggle. It is learning how to take care of yourself while you struggle.” – KC Davis Resources Mentioned in This Episode: Who Deserves Your Love: How to Create Boundaries to Start, Strengthen, or End Any Relationship by KC Davis - https://amzn.to/3GVFdfh How to Keep House While Drowning: A Gentle Approach to Cleaning and Organizing by KC Davis - https://amzn.to/43dAn4n KC Davis Resources - https://www.strugglecare.com/resources KC Davis TED Talk - How To Do Laundry When You’re Depressed - https://www.ted.com/talks/kc_davis_how_to_do_laundry_when_you_re_depressed_apr_2022 Thomas–Kilmann Conflict Styles - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thomas%E2%80%93Kilmann_Conflict_Mode_Instrument Struggle Care - https://www.strugglecare.com/ Guest’s Links: Website - https://www.strugglecare.com/ Instagram - https://www.instagram.com/strugglecare Twitter - https://x.com/KCDavisSays Facebook - https://www.facebook.com/StruggleCare/ TikTok - https://www.tiktok.com/@domesticblisters Podcast - https://www.strugglecare.com/struggle-care Connect with Jen!Jen’s Website - https://jenhatmaker.com/ Jen’s Instagram - https://instagram.com/jenhatmakerJen’s Twitter - https://twitter.com/jenHatmaker/ Jen’s Facebook - https://facebook.com/jenhatmakerJen’s YouTube - https://www.youtube.com/user/JenHatmaker The For the Love Podcast is presented by Audacy.  To learn more about listener data and our privacy practices visit: https://www.audacyinc.com/privacy-policy Learn more about your ad choices. Visit https://podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Description:Beloved author Wade Rouse—who writes under the pen name Viola Shipman—joins Jen for a heartfelt, hilarious, and deeply insightful conversation about writing, identity, and honoring the women who shape us. Known for his evocative novels rooted in love, memory, and family, Wade shares the origin of his pen name (a tribute to his grandmother), the transition from memoir to fiction, and how Michigan became the emotional landscape for so many of his stories.In this touching episode, Jen and Wade dive into: The joy (and exhaustion) of book tours The beauty of writing from grief The fight against genre-shaming in publishing Why women’s voices in literature matter more than ever His latest novel The Page Turner, and what inspired it His upcoming project that’s giving Golden Girls a queer twist Whether you’re a book lover, an aspiring writer, or someone who believes in the power of personal stories, this episode is packed with inspiration, connection, and literary magic.Thought-Provoking Quotes:★ “My grandmother never finished high school, but she taught me to love myself unconditionally. My novels are a thank-you to her.” – Wade Rouse★ “The most fearful place in your life can also be the place you take off from.” – Wade Rouse★ “I’m not having it—genre shaming diminishes stories that speak to real people in real life.” – Wade Rouse★ “Writing is how I make sense of the world. It’s what keeps me alive.” – Wade Rouse★ “Real readers read your books.” – Jen HatmakerResources Mentioned in This Episode:➢ The Page Turner by Viola Shipman - https://bookshop.org/p/books/the-page-turner-viola-shipman/c2LjF3Fyg5p6hhsJ➢ Thank You for Being a Friend (Coming Spring 2026 from Wade Rouse) - https://www.harpercollins.com/products/thank-you-for-being-a-friend-wade-rouse?variant=43837257121826➢ On Being Jewish Now, edited by Zibby Owens – https://zibbymedia.com/products/on-being-jewish-now?srsltid=AfmBOopN4cohtpA6k7EbIWC3F0Pq7dYqivWB5s97E-e9iEtFrw4sugUH➢ Erma Bombeck –https://amzn.to/3DT9NoL➢ BookPeople in Austin, TX – https://www.bookpeople.com➢ Visit Saugatuck, MI – https://www.saugatuck.comGuest’s Links:Website – https://www.violashipman.comInstagram – https://www.instagram.com/violashipmanFacebook – https://www.facebook.com/ViolaShipmanBooksConnect with Jen!Website – https://jenhatmaker.comInstagram – https://instagram.com/jenhatmakerFacebook – https://facebook.com/jenhatmakerYouTube – https://www.youtube.com/user/JenHatmakerThe For the Love Podcast is presented by Audacy. To learn more about listener data and our privacy practices visit: https://www.audacyinc.com/privacy-policy Learn more about your ad choices. Visit https://podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Description: Today, we’re playing a few of our favorite messages and responding to what you, our listeners, have shared. Whether it’s midlife realizations, hard-won wisdom, or letting go of stuff that just isn’t serving you anymore—this is about all of us learning from each other. Thank you to Alice, Ann, Sarah, Ashley, #1 Becky and  “Badass Becky”   Also, Sydney Hatmaker said some hurtful things to us about us broadcasting our bare old lady feet on the podcast and we had to take a minute to discuss a new dress code policy. Thought-provoking Quotes: 18:00 Sometimes the tool is just language – Amy Hardin 21:00 Tools all in use but still suffering – Jen 27:00 I want to shake people and pull things over. I’m not sure that’s the appropriate response. – Jen 29:30 If we don’t counter messages, others will take over. – Jen 47:00 Make a list of your accomplishments to use for momentum – Amy 48:00 I think we are at our best in the second half of life – Jen 58:00 I want out of the rat race – Jen Resources Mentioned in This Episode: Reclaiming Your Power: Moms Demand Action’s Shannon Watts on Living a Life of Passion and Purpose - https://jenhatmaker.com/podcasts/series-64/reclaiming-your-power-moms-demand-actions-shannon-watts-on-living-a-life-of-passion-and-purpose/ Camino de Santiago - https://santiago-compostela.net/ Midlife Isn’t a Crisis, It’s a Comeback: Maddie Corman on Being Accidentally Brave - https://jenhatmaker.com/podcasts/series-64/midlife-isnt-a-crisis-its-a-comeback-maddie-corman-on-being-accidentally-brave/ Betrayal Trauma - https://www.verywellmind.com/betrayal-trauma-causes-symptoms-impact-and-coping-5270361 Brené Brown - https://brenebrown.com/ Books by Brené Brown - https://amzn.to/3FgwnIt The Tears of Things: Living Prophetically in an Age of Outrage with Richard Rohr - https://jenhatmaker.com/podcasts/series-64/the-tears-of-things-living-prophetically-in-an-age-of-outrage-with-richard-rohr/ Trump administration says it’s cutting 90% of USAID foreign aid contracts - https://apnews.com/article/trump-usaid-foreign-aid-cuts-6292f48f8d4025bed0bf5c3e9d623c16 Kendra Adachi - https://www.thelazygeniuscollective.com/ Escaping the Productivity Trap: Kendra Adachi’s Lazy Genius Perspective - https://jenhatmaker.com/podcasts/series-64/escaping-the-productivity-trap-kendra-adachis-lazy-genius-perspective/ Frances Mayes - https://www.francesemayes.com/ Connect with Jen!Jen’s Website - https://jenhatmaker.com/ Jen’s Instagram - https://instagram.com/jenhatmakerJen’s Twitter - https://twitter.com/jenHatmaker/ Jen’s Facebook - https://facebook.com/jenhatmakerJen’s YouTube - https://www.youtube.com/user/JenHatmaker The For the Love Podcast is presented by Audacy.  To learn more about listener data and our privacy practices visit: https://www.audacyinc.com/privacy-policy Learn more about your ad choices. Visit https://podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Gretchen Rubin is one of today’s most influential observers of happiness and human nature. In addition to hosting the award-winning podcast Happier with Gretchen Rubin, where she shares practical strategies for building a happier, healthier, more creative life, Gretchen is also the bestselling author of The Happiness Project, The Four Tendencies, Better Than Before, Life in Five Senses, and now Secrets of Adulthood, a delightful collection of her signature aphorisms—concise, thought-provoking truths gathered from her own experiences and reflections on human nature. Today, Gretchen shares a wealth of bite-sized, digestible truths with Jen and Amy that acknowledge problems everyone faces.  “What we do every day matters more than what we do once in a while.” “Outer order contributes to inner calm.” “A strong voice repels as well as attracts.” “Don’t let perfect be the enemy of good.” And our personal favorite, “Choose the bigger life.” Gretchen also delves into the Four Tendencies and helps Jen and Amy unpack their profiles to better understand whether they are an Upholder, Questioner, Obliger, or Rebel.  Anyone want to take bets? Thought-provoking Quotes: “Happier people are  more interested in the problems of the world. And they're more interested in the problems of the people around them. They're more likely to volunteer. They're more likely to vote. They're more likely to donate their time or their money. They're more likely to help out if someone needs a hand. When we're happier, we're able to turn outward and to think about the problems of the world.” – Gretchen Rubin “Action is the antidote to anxiety.” – Gretchen Rubin “There’s really no more eloquent way to put this: one of the best ways to make friends is to make friends with the friends of your friends.” – Gretchen Rubin “When we're doing something hard, it feels like the times are hard." – Gretchen Rubin Resources Mentioned in This Episode: Camino de Santiago Pilgrimage - https://santiago-compostela.net/ Secrets of Adulthood: Simple Truths for Our Complex Lives by Gretchen Rubin - https://amzn.to/4kq8TzF The Happier App - https://thehappierapp.com/ David Sedaris The Happiness Project: Or, Why I Spent a Year Trying to Sing in the Morning, Clean My Closets, Fight Right, Read Aristotle, and Generally Have More Fun by Gretchen Rubin - https://amzn.to/3S9OXox The Four Tendencies Quiz - https://gretchenrubin.com/quiz/the-four-tendencies-quiz/  The English Understand Wool by Helen DeWitt - https://amzn.to/43iUOgg The Last Samurai by Helen DeWitt - https://amzn.to/43tjDaF 5 Things Making Me Happy Newsletter - https://gretchenrubin.com/newsletter/5-things-making-me-happy-september-16-2022/ Sandwich: A Novel by Catherine Newman - https://amzn.to/4m9KGiy Guest’s Links: Website - https://gretchenrubin.com/ Instagram - https://www.instagram.com/gretchenrubin/ Facebook - https://www.facebook.com/GretchenRubin Youtube - https://www.youtube.com/GretchenRubin TikTok - https://www.tiktok.com/@gretchenrubin Connect with Jen!Jen’s Website - https://jenhatmaker.com/ Jen’s Instagram - https://instagram.com/jenhatmakerJen’s Twitter - https://twitter.com/jenHatmaker/ Jen’s Facebook - https://facebook.com/jenhatmakerJen’s YouTube - https://www.youtube.com/user/JenHatmaker The For the Love Podcast is presented by Audacy.  To learn more about listener data and our privacy practices visit: https://www.audacyinc.com/privacy-policy Learn more about your ad choices. Visit https://podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Description: … We need art and beauty now more than ever We need creators to create And Jen admits to being a metaphor whore Thought-provoking Quotes: “The thing that really kept me going was writing. Writing was the way that I came home to myself.” – Maggie Smith  8:00 Nobody wants my cookbook. The next step will be call Doordash – Maggie Smith 9:00 Every decision you make is a creative decision.  10:15 I always want to grab people by the shoulders…. 13:45 Even if you’re not a writer, if you have a good therapist, they’ll probably tell you to write. 27:15 The quality of your attention in the world is your gift. 31:00 I am so grateful that people make things 35:00 I may look like I’m alone when I’m writing 35:30 I think it’s important to debunk the myth of the solo creator (similar to the tortured artist) 42:00 I would hate for people to think that fully formed poems come out. Just get it down. Resources Mentioned in This Episode: Dear Writer: Pep Talks & Practical Advice for the Creative Life by Maggie Smith - https://amzn.to/42EPzrc Sturgill Simpson - https://sturgillsimpson.com/ Good Bones poem by Maggie Smith - https://www.poetryfoundation.org/poems/89897/good-bones Keep Moving: Notes on Loss, Creativity, and Change by Maggie Smith - https://amzn.to/3Gal2Kd Moving Forward After Pain Rips Your Script: Maggie Smith - https://jenhatmaker.com/podcasts/series-36/moving-forward-after-pain-rips-your-script-maggie-smith/ The Friendships That Save Us: Maggie Smith - https://jenhatmaker.com/podcasts/series-54/the-friendships-that-save-us-maggie-smith/ The Dear Writer Book Tour - https://maggiesmithpoet.com/dear-writer-book-tour/ You Could Make This Place Beautiful: A Memoir by Maggie Smith - https://amzn.to/3Ep8sWK Bird by Bird: Some Instructions on Writing and Life by Anne Lamott - https://amzn.to/42yKoJi Joan Didion – https://www.joandidion.org/ My Life by Lynn Hejinian - https://amzn.to/3Eo6J40 Sayeed Jones - https://www.readsaeedjones.com/ Guest’s Links: Website - https://maggiesmithpoet.com/ Instagram - https://www.instagram.com/maggiesmithpoet/ Twitter - https://x.com/maggiesmithpoet Facebook - https://www.facebook.com/maggiesmithpoet Substack - https://maggiesmith.substack.com/ Connect with Jen!Jen’s Website - https://jenhatmaker.com/ Jen’s Instagram - https://instagram.com/jenhatmakerJen’s Twitter - https://twitter.com/jenHatmaker/ Jen’s Facebook - https://facebook.com/jenhatmakerJen’s YouTube - https://www.youtube.com/user/JenHatmaker The For the Love Podcast is presented by Audacy.  To learn more about listener data and our privacy practices visit: https://www.audacyinc.com/privacy-policy Learn more about your ad choices. Visit https://podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Build the life of your dreams and learn from the world’s most successful people. Emma Grede, one of America’s richest self-made women - wants you to make the most of your life. On ‘Aspire with Emma Grede', learn through thought-provoking conversations with some of the most successful and smartest minds on the planet. Each episode will unpack their habits, philosophy and strategies, covering career advice, well-being, psychology and of course how to win in business. The show offers personal stories, data-driven advice, real-world strategies, and the experience you need, to turn your dreams into reality. To learn more about listener data and our privacy practices visit: https://www.audacyinc.com/privacy-policy Learn more about your ad choices. Visit https://podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Description: Melissa Radke is the best friend you never knew you always wanted with a Texas-sized heart and sense of humor to match. She’s also an author, speaker, TV personality, and For the Love fan-favorite, best known for her gut-busting sense of humor, deep honesty, and fierce Southern sass. Melissa first gained a national following with her viral videos about parenting and real life, which led to a reality show (The Radkes) and a bestselling book (Eat Cake. Be Brave.) A fierce advocate for women finding their voice—especially in midlife—Melissa brings laughter and tears to everything she touches. Her newest project, Chicken Fried Women, a collection of stories (with a companion podcast series) celebrates the women—battered on the outside, tender on the inside, some salty, some spicy—who made us who we are. In this life-giving conversation filled with snort-laughs and tears, we talk about:  The incredible women who raised us, taught us, prayed for us, and even humbled us when we needed it most The stories that have become legend in our families—Melissa tells a story about her Aunt Melba helping her mother with fastening her girdle in a cramped church bathroom stall that left Jen and Amy in stitches The friends who have shown up for us in times of crisis with remedies and solutions that we never could have fathomed for ourselves Thought-provoking Quotes: “I have always thought that people who have an innate gift to find and communicate humor, even in the midst of sorrow, possess a gift of healing. And I can’t number how many times I have been on the other side of someone else’s gift of humor and it has restored me in a way that literally nothing else could.” – Jen Hatmaker “Don’t waste another second being around someone who makes you feel like you’re too much. Go sit at a different table. Find a different circle.” – Melissa Radke “I am fully committed, as committed as I am to Christ, to the moo-moo. I make no apologies and I thank the person who rebranded it by calling it a kaftan.” – Melissa Radke Resources Mentioned in This Episode: Eat Cake & Be Brave: The Funny Formula For Life With Melissa Radke - https://bit.ly/4j29Yxm Fierce, Free & Full of Questions: Melissa Radke Gets Jen to Tell it All - https://bit.ly/4lkzm2Q The Radkes - https://www.usanetwork.com/the-radkes Saturday Night Live’s Five Timer’s Club - https://www.nbc.com/nbc-insider/snl-fiver-timers-club-member-hosts Chicken-Fried Women: Friendship, Kinship, and the Women Who Made Us This Way by Melissa Radke - https://amzn.to/3FS6azY The Chicken Fried Women Podcast - https://www.melissaradke.com/podcast Erma Bombeck - https://amzn.to/3DT9NoL Leanne Morgan - https://www.leannemorgan.com/ Tina Fey - https://www.imdb.com/name/nm0275486/ Amy Poehler - https://www.imdb.com/name/nm0688132/ Mindy Kaling - https://www.imdb.com/name/nm1411676/ She’s in Love with the Boy by Trisha Yearwood - https://open.spotify.com/track/4EJvW4NHAk7TrIeX44jjXF Guest’s Links: Website - https://www.melissaradke.com/ Instagram - https://www.instagram.com/msmelissaradke/ Facebook - https://www.facebook.com/MelissaRadkeStretchMarks/ Youtube - https://www.youtube.com/@MelissaRadke TikTok - https://www.tiktok.com/@melissaradke Podcast - https://www.melissaradke.com/podcast Connect with Jen!Jen’s Website - https://jenhatmaker.com/ Jen’s Instagram - https://instagram.com/jenhatmakerJen’s Twitter - https://twitter.com/jenHatmaker/ Jen’s Facebook - https://facebook.com/jenhatmakerJen’s YouTube - https://www.youtube.com/user/JenHatmaker The For the Love Podcast is presented by Audacy. To learn more about listener data and our privacy practices visit: https://www.audacyinc.com/privacy-policy Learn more about your ad choices. Visit https://podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Description: …Today we’re revisiting the profound biological, psychological and social shifts experienced when becoming a mother - a process known as "matrescence.” Jen sits down with science journalist Lucy Jones, who experienced a seismic identity shift that arose after the birth of her first child.   Lucy and Jen unpack groundbreaking neuroscience research and they expose the deep-rooted myths and unrealistic expectations surrounding modern motherhood. From the minimizing of postpartum struggles to the pressure of "natural birthing" ideals, Lucy reveals how these systemic fictions can breed shame, isolation and maternal mental health crises. Jen and Lucy discuss: The concept of "matrescence" - the biological, psychological and social transition to becoming a mother that renders profound identity changes How modern cultural myths and idealized notions of motherhood as blissful and "natural" can be deeply alienating and contribute to maternal mental health issues The systemic lack of scientific research and societal rituals to prepare and support women through the seismic transformation of matrescence The need to construct new narratives, share vulnerable experiences, and build community care around the modern realities of the matrescence * * * Thought-Provoking Quotes: “[Matrescence] is a very simple concept that means the process of becoming a mother. The word is a little bit like 'adolescence'. It was coined by the late American anthropologist Dana Rafael in the 70's. She also coined the word 'doula'. She first wrote about it in an essay collection published in 1974 where she talks about how, in most societies and cultures across the world, people have always had a sense that a mother is born when a baby is born. But she also describes your identity, your social relationships, your roles, your everyday life, your mind, your psychology, and your emotions." - Lucy Jones Resources Mentioned in This Episode: Matrescence by Lucy Jones – Read here Foxes Unearthed by Lucy Jones – Read here Losing Eden by Lucy Jones – Read here Dana Raphael (American Anthropologist) – Learn more “The Birth of a Mother” by Alexandra Sacks (NYT article) – Read here 2017 NIH Study on Pregnancy and the Brain – Read here Of Woman Born by Adrienne Rich – Read here Andrea O’Reilly (Motherhood scholar) – Learn more Guest’s Links: Lucy’s Website: lucyfjones.com Lucy’s X: @lucyjones Instagram: @lucyfjones Facebook: Lucy Jones Books Connect with Jen!Jen’s Website - https://jenhatmaker.com/ Jen’s Instagram - https://instagram.com/jenhatmakerJen’s Twitter - https://twitter.com/jenHatmaker/ Jen’s Facebook - https://facebook.com/jenhatmakerJen’s YouTube - https://www.youtube.com/user/JenHatmaker The For the Love Podcast is presented by Audacy.  To learn more about listener data and our privacy practices visit: https://www.audacyinc.com/privacy-policy Learn more about your ad choices. Visit https://podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Description: In the span of a single year, Abby Wambach lost her beloved brother, her wife Glennon Doyle  was diagnosed with anorexia, and her sister-in-law Amanda Doyle was diagnosed with breast cancer. For the first time, the trio who host the wildly popular We Can Do Hard Things podcast, all found themselves simultaneously lost, looking for answers. So they turned toward the only thing that’s ever helped them find their way: deep, honest conversations with other brave, kind, wise people. What resulted from those conversations was a myriad of guideposts, words of wisdom from some of the most brilliant wayfinders in the zeitgeist today. In this episode, Jen and Amy talk with Abby and Amanda about some of the most meaningful bits of guidance that they have received from inspirational voices like Elizabeth Gilbert, Jane Fonda, Michelle Obama, Ocean Vuong, Esther Perel,  Justice Ketanji Brown Jackson, and others that they have gathered into a new book called, We Can Do Hard Things: Answers to Life's 20 Questions. Some of the conversations they delve into include: Why are we like this? How do we figure out what we really want? How do we let go, or forgive, or get unstuck? Why do we wake up every day having forgotten everything we know? Why self-loyalty is so damn hard for women? Thought-provoking Quotes: “I'm just trying to remain a human in this political environment, in this place of deep fear where so much is at risk. And I think the way we do that is continuing to see each other as human and continuing to let our hearts break over what should break our hearts.” – Amanda Doyle “Having played on many different teams, I'm well suited to work well with others. I just have to be here and be myself. That is the way that I add value. I am not gonna add value in the way that Glennon and Amanda do. I know that. But that doesn't give me any lack of confidence because I know I bring something to the team.” – Abby Wambach “After 400 or so conversations, it was so wild that, whether we were talking to a person who's been a therapist for 40 years, or a person who's a poet, or a person who's an activist, there were just a handful of questions that all of these people are struggling with. The smartest people in the world are trying to figure out the same things that we are.” – Amanda Doyle Resources Mentioned in This Episode: Forward: A Memoir by Abby Wambach - https://amzn.to/4ckZOFi WOLFPACK: How to Come Together, Unleash Our Power, and Change the Game by Abby Wambach - https://amzn.to/4cpazqg We Can Do Hard Things: Answers to Life's 20 Questions by Glennon Doyle, Abby Wambach, and Amanda Doyle - https://amzn.to/3EfeZ6r Glennon Doyle - https://momastery.com/ Amanda Doyle Stops Keeping Score And Stays In The Moment - https://jenhatmaker.com/podcasts/series-60/amanda-doyle-stops-keeping-score-and-stays-in-the-moment/ Brené Brown - https://brenebrown.com/ Kate Bowler - https://katebowler.com/about/ Suzanne Stabile - https://suzannestabile.com/ Guest’s Links: Website - https://abbywambach.com/ Instagram - https://www.instagram.com/abbywambach/ Twitter - https://x.com/abbywambach Facebook - https://www.facebook.com/abbywambach/ Youtube - https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCej3anJvC-rSMd63asN8cXg Podcast - https://wecandohardthingspodcast.com/ Guest’s Links: Twitter - https://x.com/amandafdoyle Podcast - https://wecandohardthingspodcast.com/ Connect with Jen!Jen’s Website - https://jenhatmaker.com/ Jen’s Instagram - https://instagram.com/jenhatmakerJen’s Twitter - https://twitter.com/jenHatmaker/ Jen’s Facebook - https://facebook.com/jenhatmakerJen’s YouTube - https://www.youtube.com/user/JenHatmaker The For the Love Podcast is presented by Audacy. To learn more about listener data and our privacy practices visit: https://www.audacyinc.com/privacy-policy Learn more about your ad choices. Visit https://podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Description: The April 2025 JHBC selection, The Light Pirate, is a haunting, lyrical, and original story that takes place in the near future, set against the backdrop of climate-ravaged Florida, with parts of the state going underwater and being abandoned by those who used to call it home. The story follows Wanda—a luminous child born out of a devastating hurricane—as she navigates a rapidly changing world. With elements of literary fiction, speculative realism, and subtle magical undertones, The Light Pirate is a meditation on grief, transformation, resilience, and the relationship between humanity and the natural world. It’s both a warning and a whisper of hope—a reminder that even in the face of collapse, there is still beauty, connection, and light. In this discussion with The Light Pirate author, Lily Brooks-Dalton, she and Jen discuss: How the simple practice of journaling helped Lily evolve her craft and find her own unique voice as a writer The ways in which Lily weaves unexpected, real-life texture into her work by marrying her passions in other hobbies and subjects The evolving demands on a modern author And Lily talks about her next book project titled 'Ruins' that explores the fascinating field of archaeology Thought-provoking Quotes: “I always wanted to be a writer. And it was just a matter of figuring out that that was a goal worth working toward.” – Lily Brooks-Dalton “I always had a journal. I was so much better at figuring out what I felt through writing it down, as opposed to even thinking or talking out loud. It was just like my medium.” – Lily Brooks-Dalton “That moment of preparation really stuck with me for a long time. And I couldn't get it out of my head. I was just thinking about all the different ways that a human being could react to that kind of energy, that kind of dread and fear and excitement.” – Lily Brooks-Dalton “This is the conundrum of living in places that aren’t for us, places  that aren't accommodating to us anymore in the way that maybe they used to be. It's so easy to be tucked into your safe home and be like, just move, just go somewhere else. But, I think you are able to put yourself in those shoes and realize these are people's homes. They invest their whole lives in these spaces. And it's no small thing to just move somewhere a little easier.” – Lily Brooks-Dalton “I didn’t become a writer to be seen. It's not my comfort zone, so it's been a little bit scary at times and also really exciting.” – Lily Brooks-Dalton Resources Mentioned in This Episode: The Light Pirate: A Novel by Lily Brooks-Dalton - https://amzn.to/42dGxCn Motorcycles I've Loved: A Memoir by Lily Brooks-Dalton - https://amzn.to/4cEEavY Good Morning, Midnight: A Novel by Lily Brooks-Dalton - https://amzn.to/4jy3S7v The Midnight Sky on Netflix - https://www.netflix.com/title/80244645 Piranesi by Susanna Clarke - https://amzn.to/4jzVvZ6 Audition: A Novel by Katie Kitamura - https://amzn.to/42koxXa Guest’s Links: Website - https://www.lilybrooksdalton.com/ Instagram - https://www.instagram.com/lilybrooksdalton Connect with Jen!Jen’s Website - https://jenhatmaker.com/ Jen’s Instagram - https://instagram.com/jenhatmakerJen’s Twitter - https://twitter.com/jenHatmaker/ Jen’s Facebook - https://facebook.com/jenhatmakerJen’s YouTube - https://www.youtube.com/user/JenHatmaker The For the Love Podcast is presented by Audacy. To learn more about listener data and our privacy practices visit: https://www.audacyinc.com/privacy-policy Learn more about your ad choices. Visit https://podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Description: She’s become a leading voice in the culinary world and today stars as the lead host of the same cooking competition show that launched her career. Kristen Kish was eliminated from Bravo’s season 10 of Top Chef, only to make a triumphant return through a Last Chance Kitchen opportunity that cleared the way for her to beat out the remaining competition and win the season.  Since that 2013 victory, Kristen has been everywhere – launching a new restaurant, Arlo Grey, in Jen’s hometown of Austin (and another restaurant opening soon in New York), hosting some of our favorite food shows including Kitchens at the End of the World, Iron Chef, and now Top Chef (the student has become the teacher). She’s also flexing a new muscle as an author. In her new book, Accidentally on Purpose, Kristen shares her story of being born in South Korea and adopted into a loving white, midwestern American family and what it was like for her to navigate her identity in all of its racial, sexual and professional contexts. Ultimately, what defines Kristen’s story is how she learned to find her voice and use it and, while accidents may be unexpected, they don’t have to be at odds with our purpose.  Our conversation today covers:  Pivoting, embracing change, and building a life that is truthful and authentic How the road to success was so much more winding and complicated than it may have appeared from the outside Knowing internally that it’s time to make a change or take a new step forward How it’s the behind-the-scenes, off camera moments that nobody sees where the decisions and discoveries are made, where the unexpected meets the intentional, and where things get really interesting. Battling imposter syndrome and burnout and quieting the voice of doubt How life’s best opportunities often come from embracing the unexpected Thought-provoking Quotes: “I figured out that I don't need to be anything other than myself. I figured out I don’t need to replicate somebody else’s way of doing something. My voice matters.” – Kristen Kish “I think a lot of the nurture is in my personal life and a lot of the nature is in my professional life, because I can't tell you why I'm good at certain things. I didn't have to practice holding a knife. I didn't practice putting together flavors. It just came to me.” – Kristen Kish  “For a long time, I didn't know myself at all. I was too scared. I didn't want to know. I was scared of knowing where I came from because what if I found out something absolutely horrible? Sometimes you just don't want to know. And I've had to come to terms with getting to know all the really good things about myself that really have helped me move forward in life, but also really understanding the things that make me a challenge.” – Kristen Kish I wish I would have chosen Bravo over Twitter ten years ago. – Amy Hardin Resources Mentioned in This Episode: Top Chef - https://www.bravotv.com/top-chef Bravo! - https://www.bravotv.com/ Accidentally on Purpose by Kristen Kish - https://amzn.to/4iJQy04 Feed These People: Slam-Dunk Recipes for Your Crew by Jen Hatmaker -  Arlo Grey restaurant - https://www.thelinehotel.com/austin/restaurants-bars/arlo-grey/ Stef Ferrari, food writer - https://www.theycallmeferrari.com/ferrari-here Charlotte Rose Coleman, fashion stylist - https://www.charlotterosecoleman.com/ Guest’s Links: Website - https://www.thelinehotel.com/magazine/meet-atx-family-kristen-kish/ Instagram - https://www.instagram.com/kristenlkish/ Twitter - https://x.com/kristenlkish?lang=en Facebook - https://www.facebook.com/KristenLKish/ TikTok - https://www.tiktok.com/@kristenlkish Connect with Jen! Jen’s Website - https://jenhatmaker.com/ Jen’s Instagram - https://instagram.com/jenhatmaker Jen’s Twitter - https://twitter.com/jenHatmaker/ Jen’s Facebook - https://facebook.com/jenhatmaker Jen’s YouTube - https://www.youtube.com/user/JenHatmaker The For the Love Podcast is presented by Audacy.  To learn more about listener data and our privacy practices visit: https://www.audacyinc.com/privacy-policy Learn more about your ad choices. Visit https://podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Description: Today, Jen and Amy sit down with a treasured friend of the show, Franciscan priest and truth-teller, Father Richard Rohr. Father Rohr has been a genuine hero of the faith who has guided us through much uncertainty over the years. Sometimes, we turn to him for mystic insights into lighter things like our Enneagram types and relationships. But today, we turned to him for help processing the anger, grief, and dismay we feel living in America right now. And he met the moment, as he always does. With gentle grace, Father Rohr guides us through our toughest questions, like: How do we live compassionately in a time of violence and despair? And what can we do with our private disappointments and the anger we feel in such an unjust world? What can we do? Non-violent resistance is our chief responsibility right now. Like John Lewis said, these times call for some “good trouble”. Join the marches, call and write our elected leaders, and mobilize strategically for upcoming elections. We have several democratic tools at our disposal. Where can we look for inspiration? Father Rohr talks to us about his latest project, The Tears of Things, which recounts the timeless wisdom of the Hebrew prophets and notes “If we can understand the prophets so poorly, if at all, no wonder we have not understood Jesus.”  What’s one thing we can do to live prophetically in these chaotic times? And Father Rohr tells us what is giving him hope today. You’ll find it contagious. Thought-provoking Quotes: You know that the book of Lamentations was included in the Bible and it’s very telling that it's not lamenting any single war or single death. It's about universal sadness, giving us permission for a universal lament for the tragic sense of life.” -  Fr. Richard Rohr “We have to dig deep for hope. There isn't a logical basis for it today. But I do find it in nature.” – Fr. Richard Rohr “Tears put us in touch with the soul and that’s their great gift.” – Fr. Richard Rohr “Trust the excluded ones. Trust the little people. Jesus told us that. They will be much closer to the inside of the gospel than anybody who's easily holding power or position. Look for the fruits of the spirit: love, joy, peace, patience, kindness, gentleness, and self-control. You won't as readily find that in billionaires as you will in the little people.” – Fr. Richard Rohr “You're ping ponging back and forth between rage and lament. And it's hard to find your center. And then the next day it's something different. It is a daily onslaught right now. It's so overwhelming.” – Amy Hardin Resources Mentioned in This Episode: Everything Belongs: The Gift of Contemplative Prayer by Fr. Richard Rohr - https://amzn.to/4iaaBU0 Falling Upward: A Spirituality for the Two Halves of Life by Fr. Richard Rohr - https://amzn.to/4jrgkpy The Universal Christ: How a Forgotten Reality Can Change Everything We See, Hope For, and Believe by Fr. Richard Rohr - https://amzn.to/44ruxhU The Tears of Things: Prophetic Wisdom for an Age of Outrage by Fr. Richard Rohr - https://amzn.to/3XUyPKP Live Yourself Into a New Way of Thinking: Richard Rohr - https://jenhatmaker.com/podcasts/series-16/live-yourself-into-a-new-way-of-thinking-richard-rohr/ Enneagram Ones – The Reformers with Father Richard Rohr - https://jenhatmaker.com/podcasts/series-27/enneagram-ones-the-reformers-with-father-richard-rohr/ Everything Belongs: The Gift of Contemplative Prayer by Fr. Richard Rohr - https://amzn.to/3Edg7Yi Center for Contemplation and Action - https://cac.org/ Guest’s Links: Website - https://cac.org/ Twitter - https://x.com/RichardRohrOFM Connect with Jen! Jen’s Website - https://jenhatmaker.com/ Jen’s Instagram - https://instagram.com/jenhatmaker Jen’s Twitter - https://twitter.com/jenHatmaker/ Jen’s Facebook - https://facebook.com/jenhatmaker Jen’s YouTube - https://www.youtube.com/user/JenHatmaker The For the Love Podcast is presented by Audacy. To learn more about listener data and our privacy practices visit: https://www.audacyinc.com/privacy-policy Learn more about your ad choices. Visit https://podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Description: Jeff Chu, an award-winning journalist, author, and "sort-of-kind-of farmer," joins Jen on the For the Love podcast to discuss his book, Good Soil: The Education of an Accidental Farmhand. In the book, Jeff shares stories from his time at “The Farminary”, a twenty-one-acre working farm at Princeton’s Theological Seminary, where students explore life's biggest questions while cultivating the earth.  Jeff reflects on his own struggles with faith, identity, and the expectations placed upon him as a gay man raised in a conservative Christian environment. His journey reveals the challenges of cultivating, not just plants, but also a spiritual life that is authentic, evolving, and inclusive​.  In this conversation, Jeff, Jen and Amy discuss:  What Jeff learned at the “Farminary” about creating “good soil,” drawing lessons from the rhythms of growth, decay, and regeneration that define life on the land Finding moments of grace and healing. Challenging traditional interpretations of the biblical Parable of the Sower Exploring faith, not as something static, but as something that evolves. Thought-provoking Quotes: “God's love is that lavish and it's there for you. And it doesn't come with the conditions that you might have. It doesn't require you to do anything more than you've already done. It just requires you to be. God's love is big enough to hold that, and your mess, and your beauty, and your frailty, and anything else you might bring to God.” – Jeff Chu “I see folks trying to figure out how to create belonging, not just for themselves, but also for others, and being willing to ask those tough questions out loud, and being brave enough to say, I don't know, but I wonder. Being bold enough to point out not just the ugly things, but also to name the beautiful and hopeful things. Those are all things that give me hope.” – Jeff Chu #JeffChu #GoodSoil #ForTheLovePodcast #SpiritualJourney Resources Mentioned in This Episode: Community First Village / Mobile Loaves and Fishes - https://mlf.org/community-first/ Genesis Gardens - https://mlf.org/genesis-gardens/ 7: An Experimental Mutiny Against Excess by Jen Hatmaker - https://amzn.to/4kZZmjN Actually Believing God Loves You Changes Everything: Jeff Chu - https://jenhatmaker.com/podcasts/series-16/actually-believing-god-loves-you-changes-everything-jeff-chu/ Good Soil: The Education of an Accidental Farmhand by Jeff Chu - https://amzn.to/4kXozLJ Wholehearted Faith by Rachel Held Evans and Jeff Chu - https://amzn.to/4iZlOrA Does Jesus Really Love Me?: A Gay Christian's Pilgrimage in Search of God in America by Jeff Chu - https://amzn.to/4bZH91N March: Book One by John Lewis - https://amzn.to/4c6xmXI Travel and Leisure magazine editor-at-large - https://www.travelandleisure.com/author/jeff-chu Small Things Like These by Claire Keegan - https://amzn.to/446LUo5 Padraig O'Tuama, poet - https://www.padraigotuama.com/ Kitchen Hymns by Padraig O’Tuama - https://amzn.to/4ccPFdV Maggie Smith, poet - https://maggiesmithpoet.com/ In The Shelter: Finding a Home in the World by Padraig O’Tuama - https://amzn.to/4ccNNBL Jeff Chu’s Good Soil Book Tour - https://byjeffchu.com/tour Guest’s Links: Website - https://byjeffchu.com/ Instagram - https://www.instagram.com/byjeffchu Twitter - https://x.com/jeffchu Facebook - https://www.facebook.com/byjeffchu Substack - https://byjeffchu.com/contact#substack Connect with Jen! Jen’s Website - https://jenhatmaker.com/ Jen’s Instagram - https://instagram.com/jenhatmaker Jen’s Twitter - https://twitter.com/jenHatmaker/ Jen’s Facebook - https://facebook.com/jenhatmaker Jen’s YouTube - https://www.youtube.com/user/JenHatmaker The For the Love Podcast is presented by Audacy. To learn more about listener data and our privacy practices visit: https://www.audacyinc.com/privacy-policy Learn more about your ad choices. Visit https://podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Description: If we’re lucky, most of us will live an abundant life that’s filled with a number of significant transitions. How we embrace those inevitable life changes and honor that growth can make a big difference in how we are prepared to meet future challenges. Today, Jen and Amy have the pleasure of sitting down with Melinda French Gates to discuss how, at 60, she is stepping into this next beautiful season of life. By giving a rare glimpse into her interior life, and sharing previously untold stories included in her new memoir, The Next Day: Transitions, Change and Moving Forward, Melinda shares the heart-connecting lessons that we all can apply to the universal moments in our lives – including becoming a parent, the loss of a close friend, the loss of a marriage, knowing the right time to make a career move. In this episode, we discuss: The art of letting go and beginning again and making the most of the time between an ending and a new beginning How growing up in a middle-class Catholic family influenced Melinda’s values and worldview What it looks like to loosen the bonds of perfectionism and embrace uncertainty in times of change The new projects, ideas and hopes Melinda has for the future Thought-provoking Quotes: “Surround yourself with great people who are all charging toward the same mission.” – Melinda French Gates “There was something about the rollback of women's rights in the United States that I just never thought we would see in our lifetime. To see that my granddaughters will have fewer rights than I have, just shouldn't be. I felt called to try and do something about that.” – Melinda French Gates “When you lift women up, what I know from all over the world is, they lift families up and they lift societies up. And so they should be able to step into their full power, but there are still barriers in society that hold us back.” – Melinda French Gates “Women don’t tell each other enough that we’re proud of them so it’s good to hear it, no matter who you are.” – Amy Hardin Resources Mentioned in This Episode: Melinda Gates: The Power of Lifting Up Women - https://jenhatmaker.com/podcasts/series-18/melinda-gates-the-power-of-lifting-up-women/ Sara Bareilles - She Used To Be Mine - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=53GIADHxVzM Adele - Easy On Me - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U3ASj1L6_sY The Gates Foundation “Make Me Care About… with Jen Hatmaker” podcast - https://www.gatesfoundation.org/podcast/make-me-care-about The Next Day: Transitions, Change, and Moving Forward by Melinda French Gates - https://amzn.to/3FBDoTV The Moment of Lift: How Empowering Women Changes the World by Melinda French Gates - https://amzn.to/3FIW98c Gates Foundation - https://www.gatesfoundation.org/ Pivotal Ventures - https://www.pivotalventures.org/ Guest’s Links: Website - https://www.pivotalventures.org/ Instagram - https://www.instagram.com/melindafrenchgates Twitter - https://x.com/melindagates Facebook - https://www.facebook.com/melindagates Youtube - https://www.youtube.com/c/melindagates TikTok - https://www.tiktok.com/@melindafrenchgates Connect with Jen! Jen’s Website - https://jenhatmaker.com/ Jen’s Instagram - https://instagram.com/jenhatmaker Jen’s Twitter - https://twitter.com/jenHatmaker/ Jen’s Facebook - https://facebook.com/jenhatmaker Jen’s YouTube - https://www.youtube.com/user/JenHatmaker The For the Love Podcast is presented by Audacy. To learn more about listener data and our privacy practices visit: https://www.audacyinc.com/privacy-policy Learn more about your ad choices. Visit https://podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Description: In the summer of 2020, as Jen was beginning to process the loss of her 26-year marriage, there was one person walking her own similar but different journey, and understood many of the feelings of anger, grief, shame, and loss that Jen was just beginning to feel. Someone who knew how that disappointment felt. Jessica N. Tuner, founder of the popular lifestyle blog The Mom Creative, was a few months ahead of Jen in processing the loss of her 16-year marriage to her husband and father of her three children. Today, Jessica shared with Jen and Amy what the road to recovery has looked like for her, including grieving the end of the life she thought she would have forever, the change of her identity, navigating  the messy false-starts, and clawing her way back from what felt like “the floor of hell”. Jessica compiled those hard-fought lessons into a book she’s hoping will be a manifesto of hope to others, called I Thought It Would Be Better Than This: Rise From Disappointment, Regain Control, and Rebuild a Life You Love. *** Thought-provoking Quotes: Nothing about what I thought my life was going to be, is my life now. Now I feel like I walk around in the world and I feel grief and loss and disappointment and dismay from everybody. It’s amazing how my eyes have opened. It was a big awakening to the loss people are living with everyday.–Jessica N. Turner When we made the decision to divorce, I felt like I was sitting on the floor of hell, everything was dust, everything was different.–Jessica N. Turner No matter how devastating the loss, the life you can still rebuild is astonishing. – Jen Hatmaker Resources Mentioned in This Episode: Say Anything film (1989) - https://www.imdb.com/title/tt0098258/ Sixteen Candles film (1984) - https://www.imdb.com/title/tt0088128/ Cameron Crowe - https://www.imdb.com/name/nm0001081/ John Hughes - https://www.imdb.com/name/nm0000455/ James Spader - https://www.imdb.com/name/nm0000652/ Some Kind of Wonderful film (1987) - https://www.imdb.com/title/tt0094006/ I Go Crazy by Flesh for Lulu - https://open.spotify.com/track/2o1AevEuv39qZAVy6k2pmn The Breakfast Club film (1985) - https://www.imdb.com/title/tt0088847/ Weird Science film (1985) - https://www.imdb.com/title/tt0090305 Ferris Bueller’s Day Off film (1986) - https://www.imdb.com/title/tt0091042/ Planes, Trains and Automobiles film (1987) - https://www.imdb.com/title/tt0093748/ Uncle Buck film (1989) - https://www.imdb.com/title/tt0098554 Pretty in Pink film (1986) - https://www.imdb.com/title/tt0091790 Beethoven film (1992) - https://www.imdb.com/title/tt0103786 I Thought It Would Be Better Than This: Rise From Disappointment, Regain Control, and Rebuild a Life You Love by Jessica Turner - https://amzn.to/40yC1fF Outlander - https://www.starz.com/us/en/series/outlander/21796 Onsite - https://experienceonsite.com/ ONSITE COURSE [BOOK ORDER BONUS]: What now? Practical steps to navigate disappointment and learn to dream again - https://bit.ly/3DTV4d4 Jen’s Maine MeCamp Bar Harbor Travel Guide - https://jenhatmaker.com/bar-harbor/ Going - https://www.going.com/ Guest’s Links: Jessica’s website - https://jessicanturner.com/ Jessica’s Instagram - https://www.instagram.com/jessicanturner/ Jessica’s Twitter - https://x.com/jessicanturner Jessica’s TikTok - https://www.tiktok.com/@jessicanturner Jessica’s Facebook - https://www.facebook.com/TheMomCreative/ Jessica’s YouTube - https://www.youtube.com/TheMomCreative Jessica’s Pinterest - https://www.pinterest.com/JessicaNTurner/ Connect with Jen! Jen’s website - https://jenhatmaker.com/ Jen’s Instagram - https://instagram.com/jenhatmaker Jen’s Twitter - https://twitter.com/jenHatmaker/ Jen’s Facebook - https://facebook.com/jenhatmaker Jen’s YouTube - https://www.youtube.com/user/JenHatmaker The For the Love Podcast is presented by Audacy. To learn more about listener data and our privacy practices visit: https://www.audacyinc.com/privacy-policy Learn more about your ad choices. Visit https://podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Description: Maddie Corman is a seasoned American actress and playwright that you’ve seen in classic films including Some Kind of Wonderful, Maid in Manhattan, A Beautiful Day in the Neighborhood, and our favorite television shows like Law and Order, Curb Your Enthusiasm, and The Marvelous Mrs. Maisel. Most recently, she has put her creative hand to writing and performing in a very raw and vulnerable autobiographical one-woman play called Accidentally Brave, that delves into Maddie's personal journey following the arrest of her husband on child pornography charges in 2015. Today, Maddie shares her story of navigating the aftermath, focusing on themes of resilience, healing, and redefining normalcy when life takes an unforeseen turn. In this tender and transparent conversation, we discuss: How Maddie’s life turned upside down after a public personal crisis—and how she found her way back What led to her decision to write a raw, hilarious, deeply moving one-woman show called Accidentally Brave (now a movie on MAX!) What she imagined midlife would look like when she was younger versus what it looks like from where she sits today What it’s like to walk (or sometimes crawl) through shame and loss—and come out with more freedom, more truth, more YOU Also, how motherhood shifts our perspective in crisis What practices or people help us stay grounded in the hard moments – Maddie shares some really great resources! Why midlife is actually the best time to tell your story and start again Thought-provoking Quotes: “After a really big trauma that I thought was going to destroy my children, it turns out, they are thriving, and funny, and sensitive, and smart, and caring, and annoying, and they love me, and I drive them crazy, I’m sure. I share that because I feel like that was what saved my life was somebody who had been through something similar saying my kids are going to be okay.” – Maddie Corman “When you lose your mother, people bring a meatloaf over. But when your husband's arrested and you say ‘I think he's a sex addict and a porn addict,’ there's no meal train that's coming for that.” – Maddie Corman “I had lived 47 years when this happened and I had never met another person who had gone through anything like this. P.S. It turns out I had. They just didn't share about it.” – Maddie Corman “You inch your way back to the sunshine and it's so slow. And at the beginning you just think, everything's ruined; I'll just never be happy again so let me cobble together some sad life that just gets me to the finish line. But the truth is, it's stunning how much we can recover.” – Jen Hatmaker Resources Mentioned in This Episode: Some Kind of Wonderful film (1987) - https://www.imdb.com/title/tt0094006/ John Hughes - https://www.imdb.com/name/nm0000455/?ref_=fn_all_nme_1 Brené Brown - https://brenebrown.com/ Glennon Doyle - https://momastery.com/ Elizabeth Gilbert - https://www.elizabethgilbert.com/ Accidentally Brave Play - https://www.maddiecorman.com/accidentally-brave Accidentally Brave on MAX  - https://play.max.com/movie/b19ce99f-93c8-4150-ba0d-139e12048efe Partner Betray Counseling - https://www.maddiecorman.com/partner-betrayal-counseling Find a Certified Sex Addiction Therapist (CSAT) Therapist - https://iitap.com/page/TherapistDirectory Find a 12-Step Program - https://www.aa.org/find-aa  SANON International - https://sanon.org/ AL-ANON Family Groups - https://al-anon.org/ Guest’s Links: Website - https://www.maddiecorman.com/ Instagram - https://www.instagram.com/msmaddiecorman/ Twitter - https://x.com/maddiecorman Connect with Jen! Jen’s Website - https://jenhatmaker.com/ Jen’s Instagram - https://instagram.com/jenhatmaker Jen’s Twitter - https://twitter.com/jenHatmaker/ Jen’s Facebook - https://facebook.com/jenhatmaker Jen’s YouTube - https://www.youtube.com/user/JenHatmaker The For the Love Podcast is presented by Audacy.  To learn more about listener data and our privacy practices visit: https://www.audacyinc.com/privacy-policy Learn more about your ad choices. Visit https://podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Description: This month’s JHBC selection, The Berry Pickers, by Nova Scotian author Amanda Peters has found a particularly receptive audience within book club communities, including the Jen Hatmaker Book Club, for exploring universal human emotions and experiences, and for  examining unique cultural perspectives.  By masterfully blending her father's compelling stories as a Maine berry picker with her own extensive career in Indigenous governance, The Berry Pickers delves into a unique and original plot surrounding a Mi’kmaw family that grapples with the corrosive effects of guilt and shame, and the possibility of redemption. Peters reveals how the debut novel initially took shape as a short story, but as the beautifully-flawed characters and tendrilled themes began to unfold, the narrative organically expanded into the full-fledged novel that it is now, which has been translated into an impressive 22 languages and has been awarded the Andrew Carnegie Medal for Excellence in Fiction.  Thought-provoking Quotes: I couldn't have written this story when I was 21 because I didn’t have all of the life experience that I have now. – Amanda Peters Fiction readers are just better people because literature is about the human condition; it helps us develop empathy.  – Amanda Peters I love the writing process. I love creating a story. I love that high you get when you get it just right, when a sentence does exactly what I want it to do. – Amanda Peters Resources Mentioned in This Episode: The Berry Pickers: A Novel by Amanda Peters - https://amzn.to/4hAYfUM Waiting for the Long Night Moon: Stories by Amanda Peters - https://amzn.to/4hGNTTw John Steinbeck books - https://amzn.to/4c1B1pJ John Steinbeck Center - https://steinbeck.org/ Andrew Carnegie Medal for Excellence in Fiction - https://www.ala.org/carnegie-medals/2024-winners Pearly Everlasting: A Novel by Tammy Armstrong - https://amzn.to/420or5r All the Young Men by Ruth Coker Burks - https://amzn.to/420oT3D What Strange Paradise: A novel by Omar El Akkad - https://amzn.to/4kXs8l6 Guest’s Links: Website - https://amandapetersauthor.com/ Instagram - https://www.instagram.com/amandapetersauthor/ Twitter - https://x.com/amandapetersaut?lang=en Connect with Jen! Jen’s Website - https://jenhatmaker.com/ Jen’s Instagram - https://instagram.com/jenhatmaker Jen’s Twitter - https://twitter.com/jenHatmaker/ Jen’s Facebook - https://facebook.com/jenhatmaker Jen’s YouTube - https://www.youtube.com/user/JenHatmaker The For the Love Podcast is presented by Audacy. To learn more about listener data and our privacy practices visit: https://www.audacyinc.com/privacy-policy Learn more about your ad choices. Visit https://podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Description: Today’s guest, Shannon Watts, has come to be known as a formidable force in the world. As the founder of Moms Demand Action, the largest grassroots movement against gun violence formed after the Sandy Hook school shooting tragedy in 2012, her activism has mobilized millions of moms to successfully pass  over 500 gun safety laws. As Amy poignantly stated, Shannon’s work “has legitimately made a tangible impact on the safety of my kids in their classrooms”, demonstrating the profound significance of Shannon’s contributions. Watts has since shifted her time and attention to empowering women, whom she credits as the real changemakers in any movement. She has founded the Firestarter School, a platform designed to help women reclaim their power and has a forthcoming book,  Fired Up: How to Turn Your Spark into a Flame and Come Alive at Any Age, releasing in the summer of 2025, which explores the necessary elements needed to ignite a fire in your life and pursue your passion and purpose. Thought-provoking Quotes: When you get involved in something like activism, it helps you realize that you have all of this untapped power.  And it does give you the audacity to become a firestarter, to prioritize your desires over your obligations. – Shannon Watts Right out of college, I married my college sweetheart at 23-years-old. By the time I was 29, I had three children.  I have a job I don’t love. By my mid-thirties, I realized, this is not the person I would have chosen to be. I was having a difficult time acknowledging that I was living a life that was not true to me. – Shannon Watts So many women keep collecting new fuel, acquiring new skills, waiting for the other pieces to come together.  And we’re prepared when the opportunity presents itself. – Amy Hardin Society shoulders women with so many burdens so she doesn’t have room to explore her desires.  If you’re going to claim space, raise your voice, you are going to get blowback.  The direct proportion of how much you can grow your fire corresponds to how much blowback you're willing to withstand. – Shannon Watts Remind yourself of your wins everyday, whether they’re your wins or wins for what you want to see in the world. Give yourself hope and affirmation. – Shannon Watts Fighting for your safety and your rights is a form of self-care and a form of protection for other people. – Shannon Watts Resources Mentioned in This Episode: Camino Made (B.T. Harman’s Camino de Santiago pilgrimage company) - https://caminomade.com/ Fired Up: How to Turn Your Spark into a Flame and Come Alive at Any Age by Shannon Watts - https://amzn.to/4hEYE8K Fight Like a Mother: How a Grassroots Movement Took on the Gun Lobby and Why Women Will Change the World by Shannon Watts - https://amzn.to/4hFP31t 5 Calls App - https://5calls.org/ Firestarter University - https://shannonwatts.org/firestarter-university/ Guest’s Links: Website - https://momsdemandaction.org/shannon-watts/ Instagram - https://www.instagram.com/shannonrwatts/ Twitter - https://x.com/shannonrwatts Facebook - https://www.facebook.com/fightlikeamother.org Substack - https://shannonwatts.substack.com/ Moms Demand Action website - https://momsdemandaction.org/ Moms Demand Action Instagram - https://www.instagram.com/momsdemand Moms Demand Action Twitter - https://x.com/momsdemand Moms Demand Action Facebook - https://www.facebook.com/MomsDemandAction Moms Demand Action YouTube - https://www.youtube.com/user/MomsDemandAction Connect with Jen! Jen’s Website - https://jenhatmaker.com/ Jen’s Instagram - https://instagram.com/jenhatmaker Jen’s Twitter - https://twitter.com/jenHatmaker/ Jen’s Facebook - https://facebook.com/jenhatmaker Jen’s YouTube - https://www.youtube.com/user/JenHatmaker The For the Love Podcast is presented by Audacy.  To learn more about listener data and our privacy practices visit: https://www.audacyinc.com/privacy-policy Learn more about your ad choices. Visit https://podcastchoices.com/adchoices

The best adventures are often found when we embrace curiosity. That’s a lesson that Tamron Hall has learned in her storied career as a cultural icon, Emmy-winning talk show host, and broadcast journalist, as well as in her role as a young parent to a son with a shy but investigative nature to explore the world around him. In today’s conversation, Tamron talks to Jen and Amy about that curiosity and why it is a trait that should be celebrated and nurtured, both in our children and in ourselves. They talk about the many cultural treasures that already exist right in our own neighborhoods, if we open ourselves up to the beauty of exploring new places and faces. And, Tamron also shares details with Amy and Jen about her latest labor of love, the children’s book that she just released called Harlem Honey: The Adventures of a Curious Kid, an endearing story inspired by her real-life son and his adventure visiting Harlem's most iconic spots, learning a valuable lesson about the meaning of home. *** Thought-provoking Quotes: Things that are authentic tend to come easy but that doesn't mean that the process isn’t challenging. – Tarmron Hall As adults, through our urgency, we can rush our children through great opportunities of curiosity. – Tamron Hall I was very worried when my son presented as shy. Shy kids, especially boys, can be steeped into tropes and stereotypes of what a shy kid is. It forced me to talk more openly about my own social anxieties. – Tamron Hall The best of my journey as a reporter was opening my eyes to the cultural difference and nuances of neighborhoods. – Tamron Hall Storytelling is something that we all have the ability to do. When you tell it from your heart and from an authentic space, it can resonate. It transcends gender, economics. It transcends everything. – Tamron Hall Resources Mentioned in This Episode: Prince - https://www.prince.com/ The Tamron Hall Show - https://tamronhallshow.com/ Jen Hatmaker Gets Real About Healing After Divorce on The Tamron Hall Show - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Fkm0RqfRYMI As the Wicked Watch: The First Jordan Manning Novel by Tamron Hall - https://amzn.to/4hnc8qn Harlem Honey: The Adventures of a Curious Kid by Tarmron Hall - https://amzn.to/4hJEuea Deadline: Crime With Tamron Hall - https://www.investigationdiscovery.com/show/deadline-crime-with-tamron-hall-investigation-discovery The TODAY Show - https://www.today.com/ Sisterwives Tell All - https://www.tlc.com/shows/sister-wives/episodes/sister-wives-tell-all Ebony Glenn, Illustrator - https://www.ebonyglenn.com/ 100 Mighty Dragons All Named Broccoli by David LaRochelle - https://amzn.to/4jOvGFz Are You There God? It’s Me, Margaret by Judy Blume - https://amzn.to/3CCSsjc Billie Holliday - https://billieholiday.com/ The Apollo Theater - https://www.apollotheater.org/ A Confident Cook: Recipes for Joyous, No-Pressure Fun in the Kitchen by Tamron Hall and Lish - https://amzn.to/3ErTZJq Building Bridges, Not Walls: Tim Shriver on Dignity that Transcends Disagreements - https://jenhatmaker.com/podcasts/series-64/building-bridges-not-walls-tim-shriver-on-dignity-that-transcends-disagreements/ Guest’s Links: Tamron’s website - https://tamronhallshow.com/ Tamron’s Instagram - https://www.instagram.com/tamronhall Tamron’s Twitter - https://x.com/tamronhall Tamron’s Facebook - https://www.facebook.com/TamronHall/ Tamron’s TikTok - https://www.tiktok.com/@tamronhall Tamron’s Youtube - https://www.youtube.com/tamronhallshow Connect with Jen! Jen’s website - https://jenhatmaker.com/ Jen’s Instagram - https://instagram.com/jenhatmaker Jen’s Twitter - https://twitter.com/jenHatmaker/ Jen’s Facebook - https://facebook.com/jenhatmaker Jen’s YouTube - https://www.youtube.com/user/JenHatmaker The For the Love Podcast is presented by Audacy. To learn more about listener data and our privacy practices visit: https://www.audacyinc.com/privacy-policy Learn more about your ad choices. Visit https://podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Description: Today, Jen and Amy have an intimate conversation with preeminent perimenopausal and menopausal specialist and women’s health advocate, Dr. Louise Newson, who has been described as the “medic who kickstarted the menopause revolution” for her commitment to increasing awareness and knowledge about hormones, perimenopause and menopause through her books, podcast, and educational videos on social media. In this candid and enlightening conversation, we discuss:  The biggest misconceptions women have about menopause including understanding the array of symptoms that can be attributed to it How the conversations our mothers and grandmothers had (or didn’t have) about menopause are evolving The discussions we should be having with our doctors about our health and symptoms but aren’t, either due to shame or lack of information Important steps we can take now to minimize our menopausal symptoms later Treatment options to alleviate our perimenopause/menopause symptoms once they begin, including hormone replacement therapy And, why it’s imperative for policymakers, insurers, employers, and doctors of all specialties to be part this conversation  Thought-provoking Quotes: What’s going wrong or right  in this [menopause/perimenopause] conversation is that women are understanding this faster than their healthcare professionals are. – Dr. Louise Newson I’ve been taking hormones now for 9 years but the dose of estrogen I need, I cannot get from my NHS GP and I am white, I’m middle-class, I’m middle-class, and English-speaking. If I’m struggling, what does that mean for the majority of people globally? They're not having a voice and they’re struggling. – Dr. Louise Newson Menopause lasts forever (i.e. until the day we die). It's not just something to get you through until the next job interview, or the next phase of your life, or the next relationship. It is forever. You have to make sure the [treatment] choice you make is right for you. – Dr. Louise Newson Hormones are good but they’re not going to help me as  much as if I look after myself. – Dr. Louise Newson Resources Mentioned in This Episode: The Definitive Guide to the Perimenopause and Menopause by Dr. Louise Newson- https://amzn.to/3Rf4LFQ Newson Health Menopause and Wellbeing Centre - https://www.newsonhealth.co.uk/book-an-appointment/ Balance App - https://www.balance-menopause.com/balance-app/ The Dr. Louise Newson Podcast - https://open.spotify.com/show/7dCctfyI9bODGDaFnjfKhg?si=b382cda4537246d5&nd=1&dlsi=b4764565942d4037 Guest’s Links: Website - https://www.drlouisenewson.co.uk/ Instagram - https://www.instagram.com/menopause_doctor/ Twitter - https://x.com/drlouisenewson Youtube - https://www.youtube.com/@menopause_doctor Podcast - https://open.spotify.com/show/7dCctfyI9bODGDaFnjfKhg?si=b382cda4537246d5&nd=1&dlsi=b4764565942d4037 Connect with Jen! Jen’s Website - https://jenhatmaker.com/ Jen’s Instagram - https://instagram.com/jenhatmaker Jen’s Twitter - https://twitter.com/jenHatmaker/ Jen’s Facebook - https://facebook.com/jenhatmaker Jen’s YouTube - https://www.youtube.com/user/JenHatmaker The For the Love Podcast is presented by Audacy.  To learn more about listener data and our privacy practices visit: https://www.audacyinc.com/privacy-policy Learn more about your ad choices. Visit https://podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Women’s basketball is on the rise and The Women’s Hoops Show is here for every buzzer-beater, breakout star, and game-changing moment. Join host Jordan Robinson as she dives deep into the WNBA, college hoops, and the rise of new leagues like Unrivaled to bring you insightful conversations with players, coaches, and analysts. If you love women’s basketball, this is your year-round home for the biggest stories in the game. To learn more about listener data and our privacy practices visit: https://www.audacyinc.com/privacy-policy Learn more about your ad choices. Visit https://podcastchoices.com/adchoices

In this special SXSW2025 edition of For the Love, Jen Hatmaker sits down with Dr. Stacey Ludwig Johnson, the Senior VP and Executive Dean at Western Governors University (WGU) School of Education. As a lifelong advocate for educators, Dr. Johnson is at the forefront of reimagining how we train, support, and sustain teachers in today’s challenging educational landscape. Jen, a former teacher herself, brings her deep passion for education into this conversation, unpacking the real issues educators face today—from teacher shortages to burnout—and discussing how innovative models like WGU’s competency-based education are transforming access to learning. What You’ll Learn in This Episode Dr. Johnson’s Path to Leadership: How she transitioned from working in corrections to becoming a pioneer in online education. Competency-Based Education: What it is, how it differs from traditional models, and why it’s a game-changer for adult learners. Educator Burnout & Retention: The state of teacher well-being and what’s being done to ensure teachers not only enter the profession but thrive in it. School & Community Support for Teachers: How schools, administrators, and parents can create environments where teachers feel valued. Future Trends in Education: How AI, technology, and apprenticeship programs are shaping the next generation of educators. Thought-provoking Quotes: “We don’t believe in courses just for the sake of courses. Everything at WGU is designed to build skills that translate directly into a career.” - Stacey Ludwig Johnson “Retention is just as critical as recruitment—if we don’t take care of our teachers, we will never solve the teacher shortage crisis.” - Stacey Ludwig Johnson “Teachers are literally helping us raise the next generation. Every second of what they do matters.“ - Jen Hatmaker “The future of education must include personalization, technology integration, and real-world experience to prepare students for success.” - Stacey Ludwig Johnson Resources Mentioned in This Episode: Learn more about WGU: wgu.edu Guest’s Links: Interested in becoming a teacher or continuing your education? WGU offers flexible, affordable degree programs designed for working adults. Website - https://www.wgu.edu/ Instagram - https://www.instagram.com/westerngovernorsu/ Twitter - https://x.com/wgu Facebook - https://www.facebook.com/wgu.edu/ Youtube - https://www.youtube.com/user/WesternGovernorsUniv TikTok - https://www.tiktok.com/@wgu Stacey Ludwig Johnson’s Website - https://www.wgu.edu/blog/authors/stacey-ludwig-johnson.html Stacey Ludwig Johnson’s LinkedIn - https://www.linkedin.com/in/stacey-ludwig-johnson-0bba1715/ Connect with Jen! Jen’s Website - https://jenhatmaker.com/ Jen’s Instagram - https://instagram.com/jenhatmaker Jen’s Twitter - https://twitter.com/jenHatmaker/ Jen’s Facebook - https://facebook.com/jenhatmaker Jen’s YouTube - https://www.youtube.com/user/JenHatmaker The For the Love Podcast is presented by Audacy.  To learn more about listener data and our privacy practices visit: https://www.audacyinc.com/privacy-policy Learn more about your ad choices. Visit https://podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Description: In the spirit of Spring Break, which it is for us here in Texas, we’re taking a quick break from our regular podcast lineup to do something fun. Recent listeners of the podcast will know that we’ve added a voicemail feature to the podcast and, for a few weeks, we’ve been asking you to leave us messages with your thoughts on recent episodes and questions for us. And boy you have! The messages we’ve received run the gamut from candid and vulnerable to gutsy and inspirational and some were just hilarious (though not all of them were appropriate for the airwaves but we still love them so KEEP THEM COMING). Today, we’re responding to a few of our favorite messages from women in our listening community who shared messages that we think will resonate with you on multiple levels. Our thanks to Naomi, Mollie, Jamie, Laura, and one special anonymous caller for sharing their thoughts for all of us to enjoy. Thought-provoking Quotes: "We need to wear what we feel comfortable in, what we feel pretty in. There are no rules!" – Listener Voicemail “I broke up with my effort last week. I literally sat myself down and said, ‘I am not responsible for making this person happy.’” – Jen Hatmaker "Loud quitting is about being clear, setting boundaries, and walking away from what no longer serves you—without apology." – Amy Hardin "Once we stop our frantic interventions to manage someone else’s life, it turns out, that’s when they start to do their own work—even our kids." – Jen Hatmaker “There is no such thing as ‘too late.’ We are only getting more time and space to dream new dreams.” – Amy Hardin Resources Mentioned in This Episode: The Devil Wears Prada film (2006) - https://www.imdb.com/title/tt0458352/ Warning poem by Jenny Joseph - https://www.scottishpoetrylibrary.org.uk/poem/warning/ Freedom From Codependency with Melody Beattie - https://jenhatmaker.com/podcasts/series-56/freedom-from-codependency-with-melody-beattie/ Finding Freedom with Mel Robbins and Two Little Words: Let Them - https://jenhatmaker.com/podcasts/series-64/finding-freedom-with-mel-robbins-and-two-little-words-let-them/ Atlas of the Heart by Brené Brown - https://amzn.to/4hkHNb7 Awaken to Your Next Chapter: Artist and Activist Lisa Congdon on Imagining a More Beautiful Life - https://jenhatmaker.com/podcasts/series-64/awaken-to-your-next-chapter-artist-and-activist-lisa-congdon-on-imagining-a-more-beautiful-life/ Sacred Reimagination: When Faith Evolves with You: Erin Hicks Moon - https://jenhatmaker.com/podcasts/series-64/sacred-reimagination-when-faith-evolves-with-you-erin-hicks-moon/ Jane Fonda - https://www.janefonda.com/ Saturday Night Live 50th Anniversary Special - https://www.nbcnews.com/pop-culture/snl-50-anniversary-special-how-watch-time-cast-rcna191588 Stuart Smalley - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stuart_Smalley Jen is going to be a grandma! - https://www.instagram.com/reel/DHBp8olOTOi/ Connect with Jen! Jen’s Website - https://jenhatmaker.com/ Jen’s Instagram - https://instagram.com/jenhatmaker Jen’s Twitter - https://twitter.com/jenHatmaker/ Jen’s Facebook - https://facebook.com/jenhatmaker Jen’s YouTube - https://www.youtube.com/user/JenHatmaker The For the Love Podcast is presented by Audacy. To learn more about listener data and our privacy practices visit: https://www.audacyinc.com/privacy-policy Learn more about your ad choices. Visit https://podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Title: Fixing the Broken Pieces with Ian Morgan Cron  Description: Everyone is an addict. Mr. Rogers…The Dali Lama… Michelle Obama! Mull that idea over for a minute and when you’re done being outraged like we were, join us for this enthralling conversation with one of our favorite repeat guests on For the Love – author, psychotherapist, and Episcopal priest, Ian Morgan Cron. Today, we’re talking to him about his new book, The Fix: How the Twelve Steps Offer a Surprising Path of Transformation for the Well-Adjusted, the Down-and-Out, and Everyone In Between. People pleasing, the need to be right, being a compulsive helper, workaholism, being a knowledge junkie, perfectionism, holding on to our past suffering – these are all forms of addiction. The simple truth is, we each resort to our own methods of dealing with the harder aspects of life. For some, that solution means turning to a substance to numb our pain, which is how we traditionally think of addiction. For others, there are behaviors we employ to manipulate what we are feeling. And that’s where the rest of us fall into the sticky trap. Ian, who also hosts the wildly popular Typology podcast exploring the mystery of the human personality, teaches us how the Twelve Steps are a trusted tool for anyone seeking to move beyond self-help to a more profound sense of awakening.  And, in a new segment called “To My Younger Self”, Jen and Amy share some deeply personal experiences that, for Amy, helped change her relationships and, for Jen, helped change how she viewed herself.   Thought-provoking Quotes: “People don’t have one addiction; people are poly-addicted. They’re seething cauldrons of addiction.” – Ian Morgan Cron “All human beings have a natural and innate hunger for union with the divine. The problem is when we go in search of counterfeit experiences of the divine that lead to disappointment, disillusionment and disaster.” – Ian Morgan Cron “Most Twelve Steps meetings happen in church or synagogue basements, after hours. And I wondered, does anyone upstairs know about the miracles that are going on downstairs? And why can’t we release what’s happening down here so that people up there can take advantage of it?” – Ian Morgan Cron “When you can admit powerlessness, it’s a relief that it’s not on you anymore.” – Ian Morgan Cron “When you frame an addiction as a solution to a problem, albeit an inadequate one, what follows is compassion, not judgment or condemnation.” – Ian Morgan Cron Resources Mentioned in This Episode: Five Calls app – https://5calls.org/ I Poop on Fascists Sticker - https://bit.ly/4gWiFHx The Fix: How the Twelve Steps Offer a Surprising Path of Transformation for the Well-Adjusted, the Down-and-Out, and Everyone In Between by Ian Morgan Cron - https://amzn.to/3Xgx6PK The Fix Workbook: How the Twelve Steps Offer a Surprising Path of Transformation for the Well-Adjusted, the Down-and-Out, and Everyone in Between by Ian Morgan Cron - https://amzn.to/3DiTReV How to Mitigate Stress Based on Your Personality – FREE DOWNLOAD - https://typologyinstitute.com/stress  The Typology Institute Enneagram Assessment by Ian Morgan Cron - https://typologyinstitute.com/assessment Typology Podcast - https://www.typologypodcast.com/ The Road Back to You: An Enneagram Journey to Self-Discovery by Ian Morgan Cron - https://amzn.to/3QCG1qI Guest’s Links: Ian’s website - https://ianmorgancron.com/ Ian’s Instagram - https://www.instagram.com/ianmorgancron Ian’s Twitter - https://x.com/ianmorgancron Ian’s Facebook - https://www.facebook.com/IanMorganCron/ Ian’s Youtube - https://www.youtube.com/@imcron Ian’s Podcast - https://www.typologypodcast.com/ Connect with Jen! Jen’s website - https://jenhatmaker.com/ Jen’s Instagram - https://instagram.com/jenhatmaker Jen’s Twitter - https://twitter.com/jenHatmaker/ Jen’s Facebook - https://facebook.com/jenhatmaker Jen’s YouTube - https://www.youtube.com/user/JenHatmaker The For the Love Podcast is presented by Audacy.  To learn more about listener data and our privacy practices visit: https://www.audacyinc.com/privacy-policy Learn more about your ad choices. Visit https://podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Description: Lisa Congdon may be an internationally known fine artist, illustrator and writer but she didn’t achieve momentum in her career until she was nearly 40 years old. Prior to that time, she felt that her life hadn’t mattered much, that she didn’t have anything interesting to say. But, a total career pivot in her mid-thirties awakened a passion in her that had been lying dormant for decades and helped her find her powerful, beautiful voice. Despite taking an untraditional path, Lisa has achieved recognition, not just as an artist, but as a leader in the industry for her work in social justice, mentoring and teaching. Lisa says making art is what changed her relationship to her story. Today, Jen and Amy talk to Lisa Congdon about: What it looks and feels like to awaken to new possibilities in life The power of finding and harnessing your voice, something Lisa covers more in her book, Find Your Artistic Voice: The Essential Guide to Working Your Creative Magic How two really big things (joy and activism) can coexist in artistic expression Lisa’s game-changing practice of “loud quitting” the things that no longer bring joy or something positive into her life *** Segments: Bless & Release: Loud Quitting Thought-provoking Quotes: I decided to develop a new narrative for my life and what it could become. I needed to start believing that I was worthy of love. – Lisa Congdon I think I’ve always been an artist and a maker and super-creative but I was operating in self-doubt. I learned to give myself permission to play and explore and change my own life. I was lit on fire because, for so many years, I had no sense of agency. But suddenly, I could do whatever I wanted, C I think my work is the marriage of a passion for social justice with the authentic joy I have for life. – Lisa Congdon  I found myself in a place where I was exhausted, miserable and doing things out of obligation. I worked hard at letting go. I got in a systematic process of taking inventory of my life, how I was spending my time. Every time I felt a rush of anxiety about doing something, I would stop and examine it. – Lisa Congdon Resources Mentioned in This Episode: Find Your Artistic Voice: The Essential Guide to Working Your Creative Magic by Lisa Congdon - https://amzn.to/4kkYAO1 Art, Inc.: The Essential Guide for Building Your Career as an Artist by Lisa Congdon - https://amzn.to/4ij5Ms2 The Live Your Values Deck - https://lisacongdon.com/products/values-deck Lisa Congdon’s St. Mary’s College Exhibit - https://www.stmarys-ca.edu/museum-art/lisa-congdon-hold-it-lightly Corita Kent - https://www.corita.org/ Guest’s Links: Lisa’s website - https://lisacongdon.com/ Lisa’s Instagram - https://www.instagram.com/lisacongdon Lisa’s Twitter - https://x.com/lisacongdon Lisa’s Facebook - https://www.facebook.com/lisacongdonart Lisa’s Pinterest - https://www.pinterest.com/lisacongdon/ Connect with Jen! Jen’s website - https://jenhatmaker.com/ Jen’s Instagram - https://instagram.com/jenhatmaker Jen’s Twitter - https://twitter.com/jenHatmaker/ Jen’s Facebook - https://facebook.com/jenhatmaker Jen’s YouTube - https://www.youtube.com/user/JenHatmaker The For the Love Podcast is presented by Audacy.  To learn more about listener data and our privacy practices visit: https://www.audacyinc.com/privacy-policy Learn more about your ad choices. Visit https://podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Description: Cancer is a tough topic—hard to discuss, isolating, and disorienting for those facing it. For Tyler Merritt, a beloved voice in the JHBC community, confronting mortality sparked a fresh perspective on life. Tyler joins Jen to talk about This Changes Everything, his humorous and heartfelt love letter to life after battling cancer. With his signature humor, pop culture nods, and musical theater references (plus a killer playlist), Tyler weaves candid stories of surgery and treatment with playful asides—think a five-page play about his appendix and Taylor Swift-inspired subtitles. Things may go off the rails when Jen and Tyler debate whether words like “lovers” and “making love” are officially outdated—we apologize in advance. *** Thought-provoking Quotes: Because of the way your book is written, in real time and with such urgency, I think 100 people out of 100 will go straight to their phones after finishing the book and Google ”is Tyler Merritt still alive?” – Jen Hatmaker I found out pretty quickly that I was using a lot of humor to cover my fear. Even in the worst possible scenarios, even though I was sometimes walking with death, it felt like, if I looked around, there was humor. – Tyler Merritt For people that are in the horrible cancer club, if you have something in your life that has created change in your every day, or something that has made things scary, you’re not alone. You’re blessed to still be here and breathing. – Tyler Merritt Resources Mentioned in This Episode: This Changes Everything: A Surprisingly Funny Story About Race, Cancer, Faith, and Other Things We Don’t Talk About by Tyler Merritt - https://amzn.to/3Clgwa2 Jen Hatmaker Book Club - https://bit.ly/40KOQ7U I Take My Coffee Black: Reflections on Tupac, Musical Theater, Faith, and Being Black in America by Tyler Merritt - https://amzn.to/4hjiPcC Publisher’s Weekly synopsis - https://www.publishersweekly.com/9781546006961 A Door Made for Me by Tyler Merritt - https://amzn.to/4hvCkPn Cujo - https://www.imdb.com/title/tt0085382/ Annie - https://www.imdb.com/title/tt0083564/?ref_=nv_sr_srsg_8_tt_2_nm_6_in_0_q_annie Where the Red Fern Grows by Wilson Rawls - https://amzn.to/4gdEbqG Train - Drops of Jupiter - https://open.spotify.com/track/2hKdd3qO7cWr2Jo0Bcs0MA Blackberry Farms - https://www.blackberryfarm.com/ This Changes Everything playlist - https://open.spotify.com/playlist/0jFoCxX22lzohvdd2tLfkQ Sandi Patti - https://www.sandipatty.com/ Taylor Swift - https://www.taylorswift.com/ Prince - https://www.prince.com/ RENT - https://www.imdb.com/title/tt0294870/ AUDIOBOOK: This Changes Everything: A Surprisingly Funny Story About Race, Cancer, Faith, and Other Things We Don't Talk About by Tyler Merritt - https://amzn.to/3Cm1YHa Book People (Austin) - https://www.bookpeople.com/ Parnassus Books (Nashville) - https://www.parnassusbooks.net/ Guest’s Links: Tyler’s website - https://thetylermerrittproject.com/ Tyler’s Instagram - https://www.instagram.com/thetylermerrittproject/ Tyler’s Twitter - https://x.com/ttmproject Tyler’s Facebook - https://www.facebook.com/thetylermerrittproject Tyler’s YouTube - https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCPB48_JfK-VMnYQPTYyMX5Q Connect with Jen! Jen’s website - https://jenhatmaker.com/ Jen’s Instagram - https://instagram.com/jenhatmaker Jen’s Twitter - https://twitter.com/jenHatmaker/ Jen’s Facebook - https://facebook.com/jenhatmaker Jen’s YouTube - https://www.youtube.com/user/JenHatmaker The For the Love Podcast is presented by Audacy. To learn more about listener data and our privacy practices visit: https://www.audacyinc.com/privacy-policy Learn more about your ad choices. Visit https://podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Description: In this second installment of our special Midlife Renaissance series, the delightful Erin Hicks Moon joins Jen and Amy for a super resonant conversation to discuss what it looks like when the faith that you grew up with bears no resemblance to your current values and what matters to you today. But Erin reassures us that if our faith looked like it did 10, 15, even 20 years ago, we would not be evolving. Erin is the host and resident bible scholar of the Faith Adjacent podcast and author of I’ve Got Questions: The Spiritual Practice of Having It Out with God. She’s a thoughtful guide for processing our questions, curiosity, and doubt.    Women naturally come into midlife with a posture of comfort in things they are sure of and curiosity to explore the things that they aren’t. There are many people searching for answers in the wilderness of faith but, as Erin reminds us, our questions can lead to a more vibrant and joyful faith. *** Segments Midlife Glowup: Trying new things Amy gives an update on her decision to go out on a limb as a newly-minted podcaster and Jen shares what it’s like to date again in your fifties.  Thought-provoking Quotes: We do spiritual practices to be connected to God and I think we overcomplicate it with rigid checklists. – Erin Hicks Moon Really working through the grief, and the sadness, and anger of watching your faith be weaponized or coming from a church that has split over something really difficult, or something personal in your life, something on a world stage. I think we have to be honest in that grief. That is a really difficult thing when you’re surrounded by toxic positivity in the church.Sometimes it sucks and we have to be honest about that. – Erin Hick Moon We can still have a relationship with God, we can still have faith, but it doesn’t have to look the way everyone else says it should look. – Erin Hicks Moon I’m shocked when I have conversations with people who I really did not know grew up in the church and it turns out we have so many of the same beliefs; we’ve been evolving on parallel tracks but they just choose not to identify that way. – Amy Hardin I have never met one person who has gone through deconstruction and/or because they wanted to sin more. The overwhelming pattern is that they want to figure this out and at the end of the process, they end up with a faith that is stronger than what they began with. – Erin Hicks Moon Resources Mentioned in This Episode: I've Got Questions: The Spiritual Practice of Having It Out with God by Erin Hicks Moon I've Got Questions Guided Journal: Prompts and Practices for Rewilding Your Faith by Erin Hicks Moon  Sarah Bessey - https://www.sarahbessey.com/ Anne Lamott - https://www.instagram.com/annelamott/ Bridgerton - https://www.netflix.com/title/80232398 Eugene Peterson - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eugene_H._Peterson The Making of Biblical Womanhood: How the Subjugation of Women Became Gospel Truth by Beth Allison Barr Pastor Trey - https://www.instagram.com/pastortrey05/ Dallas Willard - https://dwillard.org/ Guest’s Links: Erin’s website - https://www.erinhmoon.com/ Erin’s Substack - https://erinhmoon.substack.com/ Erin’s Instagram - https://www.instagram.com/erinhmoon Erin’s Facebook - https://www.facebook.com/erin.hicks.moon Erin’s Podcast - https://faithadjacent.com/ Connect with Jen! Jen’s website - https://jenhatmaker.com/ Jen’s Instagram - https://instagram.com/jenhatmaker Jen’s Twitter - https://twitter.com/jenHatmaker/ Jen’s Facebook - https://facebook.com/jenhatmaker Jen’s YouTube - https://www.youtube.com/user/JenHatmaker The For the Love Podcast is presented by Audacy.  To learn more about listener data and our privacy practices visit: https://www.audacyinc.com/privacy-policy Learn more about your ad choices. Visit https://podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Description: In this special episode, we welcome Barnard College professor and accomplished author, Jennifer Finney Boylan, back to the show to discuss her latest labor of love, her book Cleavage, which examines the divisions – as well as the common ground – between the genders, and reflects on her experiences, both difficult and joyful, as a transgender American. Jenny discusses the importance that things like nuance,imagination, patience, empathy and understanding hold in our divided world, reflecting on her experiences as a transgender woman and noting that for many, “living your best life is not necessarily a political decision, but a matter of life and death.” The ultimate thing she wants, Jenny says, is just to be left alone, to live her life and to be free. Segments Bless & Release: Gender stereotypes *** Thought-provoking Quotes: Conversations about trans-women in sports are complicated and demand nuance, patience, and imagination. For us to be defined by the most difficult and controversial aspects of our existence is really unfair. – Jennifer Finney Boylan I’m not a woman with an asterisk. At 66 ½ years old, my life has a lot more in common with other women my age than you would think. My life does not revolve around me trying to sneak into your daughter’s soccer game. My life revolves around my family, and reading, and teaching my students, and working in the garden, and things that I hope would seem very familiar to people. – Jennifer Finney Boylan These are hard times. But we do know that hard times come and hard times go. And, whatever this moment is, is not forever. Although I can’t underestimate exactly how hard it is to be singled out by the President of the United States as a person who specifically is not deserving of love or respect or basic human kindness. – Jennifer Finney Boylan Nobody goes from male to female in hopes of getting a better deal. – Jennifer Finney Boylan I hope people will pick up and read Cleavage not because they want to understand more about the trans business but because they want to know what sorts of choices people can make when they feel that the world is against them and there is no room for them. I have found, against all odds, that there is room for me, that I have been loved, and, on a good day, the world is full of joy and humor. – Jennifer Finney Boylan Resources Mentioned in This Episode: Cleavage: Men, Women, and the Space Between Us by Jennifer Finney Boylan  Mad Honey: A GMA Book Club Pick: A Novel by Jennifer Finney Boylan Roxane Gay She's Not There: A Life in Two Genders by Jennifer Finney Boylan Jennifer Finney Boylan’s New York Times articles - https://www.nytimes.com/column/jennifer-finney-boylan I Am Cait (Caitlin Jenner Show) - https://tv.apple.com/us/show/i-am-cait/umc.cmc.38b55qpveo4xdxypnk03xfvmp Torrey Peters - https://www.torreypeters.com/ Kate Bornstein - http://katebornstein.com/ Trans Bodies Trans Selves: a Resource Guide for the Transgender Community - http://transbodies.com/ John Barth - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_Barth Ben Hatmaker’s marathon post - https://www.instagram.com/p/DGI6wt2OyBL/?utm_source=ig_web_copy_link&igsh=MzRlODBiNWFlZA== Cleavage Tour Schedule - https://us.macmillan.com/tours/jennifer-finney-boylan-cleavage/ Guest’s Links: Jenny’s website - https://jenniferboylan.net/  Jenny’s Instagram - https://www.instagram.com/jenniferfinneyboylan Jenny’s Twitter - https://x.com/JennyBoylan Jenny’s Facebook - https://www.facebook.com/JenniferFinneyBoylan/ Jenny’s Medium - https://medium.com/@jennyboylan_97964  Connect with Jen! Jen’s website - https://jenhatmaker.com/ Jen’s Instagram - https://instagram.com/jenhatmaker Jen’s Twitter - https://twitter.com/jenHatmaker/ Jen’s Facebook - https://facebook.com/jenhatmaker Jen’s YouTube - https://www.youtube.com/user/JenHatmaker The For the Love Podcast is presented by Audacy. To learn more about listener data and our privacy practices visit: https://www.audacyinc.com/privacy-policy Learn more about your ad choices. Visit https://podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Title: Midlife Renaissance: Building Your Belonging Circle with Dr Thema Bryant Description: Today, we’re revisiting a popular topic on this show: Friendships. More specifically, the revival of our friendships and our capacity for friendships in midlife. How many of us have sacrificed a relationship or a piece of ourselves in order to fulfill the implied demands of our role as a wife or mother or woman with a career?  Dr. Thema Bryant is a renowned psychologist, author, professor, sacred artist, and minister, who empowers women to connect with themselves and to others by exploring fun and comfortable topics like our control issues and emotional unavailability with practical activation activities and teaching how to shift our mindset and patterns. Today, we’re delving into the impacts of loneliness, the complexities of navigating new and evolving friendships in midlife, and the importance of self-love and “coming home” to ourselves before we can build a community that can support us in the way we need it to. Aha moments from this episode include: Common reasons why midlife can feel isolating to some women The role major life changes (e.g., career shifts, divorce, empty nesting) play in creating a sense of disconnection Signs that a friendship or community is not serving us well, including navigating shifts in those friendships and letting go of what no longer serves us and welcoming new connections Practical activation exercises, such as writing vows to yourself, that you can practice to strengthen your relationships with yourself and others Plus, Jen and Amy debut a new segment called “Zero Damns to Give” where they suss out what stuff really matters in this stage of their lives and what can be cast off, allowing them to step into full authenticity—without guilt, shame, or over-explanation. *** Segments Zero Damns to Give: Unapologetic midlife edition Thought-provoking Quotes: When I observe someone making a polite but clear boundary, I respect it. I’m impressed. – Jen Hatmaker Can you come to the place where you admit, I miss myself? And myself is not my labor. Myself is not my roles. Myself is a living soul and one of the things that feeds my soul are my friendships but those got neglected because I was told that to be a good leader or to be a good mom, I had to deprioritize the things that nourished me. – Dr. Thema Bryant If a community is not ready-made, something for you to join, it’s something for you to create. – Dr. Thema Bryant Our wellness is more important than our loyalty. – Dr. Thema Bryant Resources Mentioned in This Episode: Matters of the Heart: Healing Your Relationship with Yourself and Those You Love by Dr. Thema Bryant - https://amzn.to/40XMql6 Homecoming: Overcome Fear and Trauma to Reclaim Your Whole, Authentic Self by Dr. Thema Bryant - https://amzn.to/4hVYQ4c The Homecoming Podcast with Dr. Thema Bryant - https://soundcloud.com/dr-thema-bryant-davis Guest’s Links: Thema’s website - https://drthema.com/ Thema’s Instagram - https://www.instagram.com/dr.thema/ Thema’s Twitter - https://x.com/drthema Thema’s Facebook - https://www.facebook.com/ThemaBryantDavis Thema’s YouTube - https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCxpb1ZdNd6M99Fhaw09H81Q Thema’s Podcast - https://soundcloud.com/dr-thema-bryant-davis Connect with Jen! Jen’s website - https://jenhatmaker.com/ Jen’s Instagram - https://instagram.com/jenhatmaker Jen’s Twitter - https://twitter.com/jenHatmaker/ Jen’s Facebook - https://facebook.com/jenhatmaker Jen’s YouTube - https://www.youtube.com/user/JenHatmaker The For the Love Podcast is presented by Audacy. To learn more about listener data and our privacy practices visit: https://www.audacyinc.com/privacy-policy Learn more about your ad choices. Visit https://podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Back in the olden days of the 1990s with our dial-up internet and AOL accounts, twelve-year-old Brian Kelly was at home honing his budding interest in travel planning by booking his family vacations and maximizing the reach of his family’s points and frequent flyer miles. Cut to a few decades later and that hobby (which started as a small-time blog powered by affiliate-marketing, which his mom was convinced was a scam) has evolved into a whirlwind operation that the world now knows familiarly as “The Points Guy”.  Brian Sherpas us through all of the twists and turns of booking travel to eliminate the headaches and get THE MOST bang for our buck. Highlights from this chat include:  Why Brian thinks this is “the Platinum Age of Travel”  Mastering family travel – Brian has been to sixteen countries with his two-year-old and is currently planning a month-long trip to Thailand with his newborn so he’s figured this out! How, when leveraged correctly, you can finance your travel using your loyalty points The 3 main types of rewards to have on your radar Surprisingly helpful hacks to avoid jetlag And Jen shares a hilarious story about a flight to Spain seated next to a nun that quickly got out of hand Segments: Rant or Rave: Early Airport Arrivals GenXCellence: 80s/90s Travel *** Thought-provoking Quotes: When people tell me that because of my knowledge, they were able to get the family together this year, that’s why I do what I do.– Brian Kelly Having points in a transferable currency is like an insurance policy. – Brian Kelly Find where the deals are. That’s how you really save. Let the deal define your destination, especially if you’re booking multiple tickets. That’s when you save real money. Spend your money on the horseback riding experience, spend it on the meals, and the fun. – Brian Kelly  You need to be your own advocate. I see people melting down in airports and getting bullied around, screaming at airline agents – the ones who hold all the power. I think people need a mentality shift because they assume they are owed something when they’re not. You need to know when to ask for favor and when you are owed something. It makes all the difference. – Brian Kelly To learn more about listener data and our privacy practices visit: https://www.audacyinc.com/privacy-policy Learn more about your ad choices. Visit https://podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Description: Jen first met Tressie McMillan Cottom the way most normal people meet – under the bright lights on the set of an Oprah special, invited by Ms. Winfrey to speak on a panel, along with other influential voices including Rebel Wilson, Amber Riley, Katie Sturino, Jamie Kern Lima, Busy Philipps and others to talk about diet culture, the harmful narratives we have surrounding our weight and our bodies, and how we can begin reframing the conversation away from one centered in shame to one focused on body acceptance. The entire studio was gobsmacked by Tressie which is fitting given that she is a prominent cultural commentator and Professor at UNC Chapel Hill. Her work explores the loaded and nuanced ideas like racial capitalism, beauty standards, the exploitation of higher education systems, but in a way that we ordinary Joe’s can understand. We knew immediately that she was destined to be a guest on our show and today is the day. Segments: Bless & Release: The News Cycle *** Thought-provoking Quotes: I think every life has a trauma so there’s nothing really special about mine. But whatever your trauma is, you are usually faced with a decision, which is, do I want to be who I was before this or am I going to be something different? – Tressie McMillan Cottom I love really hard questions. I am my happiest, most connected, most joyful, when I am trying to disentangle a really hard social problem that I think everybody has got wrong. I’m really attracted to those things where our beliefs are totally counter-intuitive, where our gut is telling us something is there but the picture is fuzzy, and I think I’m attracted to that because my path was so abnormal and so unique and I know that I wouldn’t have existed if people had just gone along with what was supposed to be. – Tressie McMillan Cottom I thought my grandmothers sounded as intelligent as my professors and so I really struggled with the idea that there was something counterfeit or illegitimate about them and their stories and the things that I had learned from them. - Tressie McMillan Cottom History is weirdly comforting when we can look at our worst impulses and know this isn't the first time we’ve faced this level of chaos and inequality and systemic injustice. It’s just our generation’s turn. – Jen Hatmaker Resources Mentioned in This Episode: Leave us a voicemail- https://jenhatmaker.com/podcast/ Click the “Send Voicemail” tab on the right side of the page Pantsuit Politics - https://www.pantsuitpoliticsshow.com/ Allison Gill - https://allisongill.com/ The Daily Beans | News with Swearing - https://www.dailybeanspod.com/ Lower Ed: The Troubling Rise of For-Profit Colleges in the New Economy by Tressie McMillan Cottom - https://amzn.to/4hv6dPF Thick: And Other Essays by Tressie McMillan Cottom - https://amzn.to/3Co8gWX Dr. Tressie McMillan Cottom’s New York Times newsletter - https://www.nytimes.com/by/tressie-mcmillan-cottom Tressie’s MacArthur Fellowship - https://www.macfound.org/fellows/class-of-2020/tressie-mcmillan-cottom Oprah + Weight Watchers: Making the Shift special - https://www.weightwatchers.com/makingtheshift/?srsltid=AfmBOortVultNvf8Oy7KWezSW1X6uVsvMm9ziScOvAzxUg3XsWQ_2H44 Guest’s Links: Dr. Cottom’s website - https://tressiemc.com/ Dr. Cottom’s Instagram - https://www.instagram.com/tressiemcphd/ Dr. Cottom’s Twitter - https://x.com/tressiemcphd Dr. Cottom’s Facebook - https://www.facebook.com/tressiemcmillancottom/ Dr. Cottom’s podcast - https://tressiemc.com/podcast/  Connect with Jen! Jen’s website - https://jenhatmaker.com/ Jen’s Instagram - https://instagram.com/jenhatmaker Jen’s Twitter - https://twitter.com/jenHatmaker/ Jen’s Facebook - https://facebook.com/jenhatmaker Jen’s YouTube - https://www.youtube.com/user/JenHatmaker The For the Love Podcast is presented by Audacy.  To learn more about listener data and our privacy practices visit: https://www.audacyinc.com/privacy-policy Learn more about your ad choices. Visit https://podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Title: No Such Thing As Good or Bad Kids: Dr. Shefali on Conscious Parenting Description: Today, we’re taking a trip into the archives to revisit a 2023 episode with renowned clinical psychologist and listener favorite, Dr. Shefali Tsabary, where we dove into the deeply-layered topic of conscious parenting. Those of us in the middle of life, still parenting kids at home, adjusting to parenting adult children who just launched out into the world. or in any season of the parenting journey, really, will find much to learn as we look back (and forward) at our parenting patterns. Highlights from this convo include: Defining conscious parenting and the three stages of the parenting map Debunking the notion that as parents we are supposed to create happy, perfect superhumans by following traditional parenting rules Dismissing the notion that there are good kids and bad kids—and how to avoid using these labels Revealing the five ego patterns that parents might not even realize inform their quest to raise amazing children The three reasons why children act out or misbehave and how you can learn not to shame them for it The results of over-parenting and how it shows up in your adult children How it’s never too late to become a mindful parent Segments: Bless and Release: Avoiding difficult conversations Thought-provoking Quotes: The evolution of the planet depends on the evolution of the parent. – Dr. Shefali Everyone wants a new tomorrow. But what we don’t realize is that a new future comes with an absolute willingness to disrupt the past. – Dr. Shefali There is no such thing as a good kid or a bad kid. So, what kind of kids are there? Just kids – just humans who are terribly flawed like we are, and terribly, but amazingly blissful like we are. They’re just this unique combo and they defy labels. – Dr. Shefali Punishment, shaming, blaming is never sustainable. I cannot tell you how many times a day I tell parents, ‘Listen, you appear to get control in the moment, but long term, it’s going to be unforgiving.’ – Dr. Shefali How do we constantly show our presence [to our adult children]? Unequivocal cheerleading. ‘I’m thinking of you. I miss you. I’m remembering you. I adore you.’ Let them know they are on your mind but not involved in their day-to-day. – Dr. Shefali When the ego crumbles, proportionately the heart expands, and you then are just this heart-centered being able to connect to the other people in a very attuned, compassionate, genuine way. And your children will feel it. – Dr. Shefali Resources Mentioned in This Episode: The Conscious Parent by Dr. Shefali Tsabary - https://amzn.to/4aNAPd8 The Parenting Map by Dr. Shefali Tsabary - https://amzn.to/3EER148 Dr. Shefali’s previous interview on For the Love:Releasing The Fantasy of “The Good Girl” with Dr. Shefali Tsabary - https://jenhatmaker.com/podcasts/series-35/releasing-the-fantasy-of-the-good-girl-with-dr-shefali-tsabary/ Guest’s Links: Dr. Shefali’s website - https://www.drshefali.com/ Dr. Shefali’s Instagram - https://www.instagram.com/doctorshefali Dr. Shefali’s Facebook - https://www.facebook.com/doctorshefali Dr. Shefali’s YouTube - https://www.youtube.com/c/DrShefali Dr. Shefali’s TikTok - https://www.tiktok.com/@doctorshefali Dr. Shefali’s Podcast - https://www.drshefali.com/podcast/ Connect with Jen! Jen’s website - https://jenhatmaker.com/ Jen’s Instagram - https://instagram.com/jenhatmaker Jen’s Twitter - https://twitter.com/jenHatmaker/ Jen’s Facebook - https://facebook.com/jenhatmaker Jen’s YouTube - https://www.youtube.com/user/JenHatmaker The For the Love Podcast is presen To learn more about listener data and our privacy practices visit: https://www.audacyinc.com/privacy-policy Learn more about your ad choices. Visit https://podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Description: Chip Leighton is a guy whose kids describe him as an “unemployed, middle-aged TikTokker“. He has turned the chaos of parenting kids – teens, in particular, into comedy gold. By taking hilarious text from teens and turning them into reels, he keeps the internet in stitches. With his hilarious take on raising teenagers that is so relatable and mirrors so many parents' exact experiences, Chip helps countless moms and dads know that they are not alone in their wild journey. Now he’s compiling the best conversations from texts and real-life moments into his new book, What Time Is Noon? Chip and Jen talk about:  The names we are given as parents of teens: Gangster, Bruh, or Jen’s favorite….Pimp Ridiculous questions our kids have asked, such as: Did grandma have kids? Am I a notary? Am I on Medicare? What’s a stamp?  Savage burns Chip’s kids have made about his wardrobe: Our favorite – “that looks like the material they make tents from”. Endless instructions from the teens on how not to be embarrassing in front of their friends Also, Chip tells the story of deciding to leave his corporate job to try his hand at standup (at the urging of one Caroline Rhea). Segments: Bless & Release: The clothes we made our kids wear GenXCellence: Parenting in GenX versus GenZ   *** Thought-provoking Quotes: I’m nostalgic about the feral children going out riding their bikes, building forts, staying out till the streetlights came on. – Amy Hardin It’s universal, it’s all teens. They don’t know how to dress properly for the weather. But they know what we (the parents) are doing wrong. – Jen Hatmaker and Chip Leighton You wouldn’t have predicted that I would be funny. Neither of my parents were performers. I wasn’t the class clown. I’ve always had a dry sense of humor and I’ve appreciated that type of comedy, I’ve just kept it inside all these years. – Chip Leighton I do believe that everybody has some strengths and interests and talents that aren’t necessarily fully leveraged in the typical career or job that they have and these new platforms help bring that out and there are more creative people able to connect with an audience now. – Chip Leighton Resources Mentioned in This Episode: What Time is Noon?: Hilarious Texts, Ridiculous Feedback, and Not-So-Subtle Advice from Teenagers by Chip Leighton - https://amzn.to/4hp7qrH Caroline Rhea - https://carolinerhea.com/ Guest’s Links: Chip’s website - https://theleightonshow.com/ Chip’s Instagram - https://www.instagram.com/the_leighton_show/ Chip’s Facebook - https://www.facebook.com/theleightonshow/ Chip’s YouTube - https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCzdstcflneJKZ_Qi5TQAvQQ Chip’s TikTok - https://www.tiktok.com/@the_leighton_show Connect with Jen! Jen’s website - https://jenhatmaker.com/ Jen’s Instagram - https://instagram.com/jenhatmaker Jen’s Twitter - https://twitter.com/jenHatmaker/ Jen’s Facebook - https://facebook.com/jenhatmaker Jen’s YouTube - https://www.youtube.com/user/JenHatmaker The For the Love Podcast is presented by Audacy.  To learn more about listener data and our privacy practices visit: https://www.audacyinc.com/privacy-policy Learn more about your ad choices. Visit https://podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Description: It seemed like a good idea at the time… a twisty, suspenseful thriller set on a cruise ship. How could this not be the perfect story to build a little buzz and excitement in my community ahead of our upcoming Jen Hatmaker cruise? Did we get more than we bargained for? Ruth Ware’s writing has rightfully been compared to that of suspense-queen, Agatha Christie, for featuring everyday female protagonists often white-knuckling it through some treacherous situations in places where they are isolated from any rescue – a glass house in the woods, an excluded ski resort, a remote tropical island, a boutique cruise ship!  Today, Jen sits down with the author of our January 2025 JHBC pick to navigate the many twists and turns of The Woman in Cabin 10 and why so many of our readers are losing sleep this month thanks to her innate skill of setting a heart-pounding scene.   *** Thought-provoking Quotes: People are comparing me to Agatha Christie which is kind of terrifying. The thing that is so brilliant about some of Christie’s books that I love the most is the closed room setting: the terrifying storm-wracked island, the luxury train in the middle of the snow storm, or the Dahabiya drifting down the Nile. What she does so brilliantly is that sense of corrupted luxury, that setting that should be really idyllic turns out horrific and becomes more and more claustrophobic and more terrifying. – Ruth Ware I have never been on a cruise but I had a chance to look around a ship as a day passenger and I was so surprised by how much I got right. There was so much that I had guessed at and I turned out to be more correct than I ever could have imagined. – Ruth Ware The way in which you write fear, to me, it feels the truest version of it when it’s not screaming, ‘you’re so scared, you can’t make a sound’ or ‘you’re so scared, you’re frozen – you can’t move.’ That to me, rings true. – Jen Hatmaker I do try really hard to drop clues and play fair with the reader. I know as a reader, the feeling that I hate most, is what I feel like the writer has cheated me and there was information that I couldn’t possibly have known, stuff I couldn’t have guessed and that I find deeply irritating as a reader. I try always to feel like I played fair with the reader and they did have a chance of guessing it even if they didn’t get there. – Ruth Ware Isn’t that why we love reading crime? It’s because you can have bad things happen in a fictional world. It doesn’t always get tied up in every single respect and yes, there’s sadness in terms that someone is usually dead. But there is some kind of restorative justice at the end. – Ruth Ware Resources Mentioned in This Episode: The Woman in Cabin 10 by Ruth Ware - https://amzn.to/3DKHCrH In a Dark, Dark Wood by Ruth Ware - https://amzn.to/400kQ6g Agatha Christie - https://www.agathachristie.com/ Below Deck tv show - https://www.bravotv.com/below-deck The Woman in Suite 11 by Ruth Ware - https://amzn.to/4gKYDk1 The Woman in Cabin 10 on Netflix - https://www.netflix.com/tudum/articles/the-woman-in-cabin-10-release-date-photos-news We Live Here Now by Sarah Pinborough - https://amzn.to/4h7kkKN Guest’s Links: Ruth’s website - https://ruthware.com/ Ruth’s Instagram - https://www.instagram.com/ruthwarewriter/ Ruth’s Twitter - https://x.com/RuthWareWriter Ruth’s Facebook - https://www.facebook.com/ruthwarewriter/ Ruth’s Threads - https://www.threads.net/@ruthwarewriter Connect with Jen! Jen’s website - https://jenhatmaker.com/ Jen’s Instagram - https://instagram.com/jenhatmaker Jen’s Twitter - https://twitter.com/jenHatmaker/ Jen’s Facebook - https://facebook.com/jenhatmaker Jen’s YouTube - https://www.youtube.com/user/JenHatmaker The For the Love Podcast is presented by Audacy. To learn more about listener data and our privacy practices visit: https://www.audacyinc.com/privacy-policy Learn more about your ad choices. Visit https://podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Description: In this funny, refreshing, and irreverent conversation about parenting, Jen welcomes Caitlin Murray to the show to talk about her Big Time Adulting community space, the blog (and now podcast) that Caitlin started when her 5-year-old son was in cancer treatment for Leukemia, as a place to connect with other moms and parents craving funny, provocative, no-nonsense entertainment to distract themselves from the hamster wheel of life Like a big sister, Jen offers encouragement to guide Cailin through the years to come, with the two ultimately agreeing that early childhood is hard but middle school is the real shit show. They commiserate over:  Spirit Weeks, PTA obligations, and signing reading logs The idea of the 'Hardship Olympics' that creates unnecessary competition among women / moms Comparison parenting and why authenticity resonates more with their communities than curated perfection How community and humor that can be found in the everyday chaos of parenting *** Thought-provoking Quotes: I had begun writing as a therapeutic outlet to family and friends. It was really just for me to put out there how I was feeling on these long days at the hospital and the things that I saw going on around me – the emotion and the stress of it all. I felt like I was protecting myself by saying exactly how I was feeling about what we were going through rather than having anyone assume what I was feeling or thinking. – Caitlin Murray By the time I had been through hell and back for over three years of pediatric cancer with my son, I knew my worth as a mother. I don’t give a f*ck about what anyone has to say about who I am. I know I am a good damn mom. – Caitlin Murray The things that you lay in bed at night and obsess over – things that you did poorly, when you lost your shit, you missed something or you messed up – it just falls right out of your kids' brains. It’s not the bones; it’s the soft tissue that sticks and makes it into their adult psyche. ‘I was deeply loved, I lived in a safe, secure home / family, my mom was into me, my mom thinks I’m funny, we laughed a lot in our home.’ That’s the stuff that lasts. Everything else turns into funny, comedic material. – Jen Hatmaker Resources Mentioned in This Episode: McSweeney’s article - Did You Even Consider Every Possible Lived Experience Before Recklessly Posting Your Chili Recipe on Social Media? - https://www.mcsweeneys.net/articles/did-you-even-consider-every-possible-lived-experience-before-recklessly-posting-your-chili-recipe-on-social-media Anne Lamott - https://amzn.to/4h6cwcO David Sedaris - https://amzn.to/3E48Qtm Edith Eger - https://amzn.to/4hoXdM4 You’ll Grow Out Of It by Jessi Klein - https://amzn.to/40oiSNm Guest’s Links: Caitlin’s website - https://bigtimeadulting.blog/ Caitlin’s Big Time Adulting podcast - https://open.spotify.com/show/7nBEnM3JLnpSsyzxWyKZJJ?si=3b76f80afad345b7 Caitlin’s Instagram - https://www.instagram.com/bigtimeadulting/ Caitlin’s Twitter - https://x.com/Caitlin98714163 Caitlin’s Facebook - https://www.facebook.com/OfficialBigTimeAdulting Caitlin’s Soul Snacks Newsletter - https://bigtimeadulting.beehiiv.com/ Connect with Jen! Jen’s website - https://jenhatmaker.com/ Jen’s Instagram - https://instagram.com/jenhatmaker Jen’s Twitter - https://twitter.com/jenHatmaker/ Jen’s Facebook - https://facebook.com/jenhatmaker Jen’s YouTube - https://www.youtube.com/user/JenHatmaker The For the Love Podcast is presented by Audacy. To learn more about listener data and our privacy practices visit: https://www.audacyinc.com/privacy-policy Learn more about your ad choices. Visit https://podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Buckle up, listeners. It was only a matter of time before our paths crossed with Mel Robbins, one of the most respected experts on change and motivation in the zeitgeist, and today is that day. Known for being the host of the #1 ranking education podcast in the world, bringing deeply relatable topics, tactical advice, tools, and compelling conversations to her audiences, Jen and Amy spend today’s hour diving into Mel’s “Let Them” theory, which is taking the world by storm, already delivering instant peace and freedom in the lives and relationships of people putting it into practice. Together, they discuss: The difference between “Let Them” and “Let Me” Learning to release the white-knuckle grip we hold over other people’s behavior (and other things beyond our control) Reframing disappointment to view it as a gift (yes, it’s possible!) Repositioning self-worth inward, rather than leaving it dependent on others' opinions. *** Thought-provoking Quotes: “For a lot of women, we spend so much time upstairs in our heads as people-pleasers and over-analyzers, over-thinking and ruminating, trying to get things perfect. That’s the last place I should be, personally. I need to drop into my body and get out of my head.” – Mel Robbins “People reveal who they are and what they care about through their behavior. Ignore their words. Watch their behavior. Let people be who they are. Let them do what they’re going to do. Focusing on them is not where your power is.” – Mel Robbins “The difference between ‘not my business’ and ‘let them’ is worlds apart. When you say, ‘not my business’, you’re scolding yourself. With, ‘let them’, you’re in the power position because you see what’s happening and are choosing to allow it without allowing it. You’re rising above it.” – Mel Robbins “There’s something about learning that [people] aren’t ever going to change but that doesn’t mean your relationship can’t change for the better. When you let them be who they are, you create space for acceptance, the whole energy shifts.” – Mel Robbins Resources Mentioned in This Episode: Demotivators - https://despair.com/collections/ Effin Birds on Instagram - https://www.instagram.com/effinbirds/ Van Morrison - https://www.vanmorrison.com/ No Hard Feelings by the Avett Brothers - https://open.spotify.com/track/0bgQ1hQrpP6ScdBZlDfLE2 Foo Fighters - https://foofighters.com/ DePeche Mode - https://www.depechemode.com/ The Cure - https://www.thecure.com/ Taylor Swift - https://www.taylorswift.com/ The 5 Second Rule: Transform Your Life, Work, and Confidence with Everyday Courage by Mel Robbins - https://amzn.to/427OHwu The Let Them Theory: A Life-Changing Tool That Millions of People Can't Stop Talking About by Mel Robbins - https://amzn.to/4hc53bE The Mel Robbins Podcast - https://www.melrobbins.com/podcast The Four Questions: For Henny Penny and Anybody with Stressful Thoughts by Byron Katie - https://amzn.to/3C7tKXT My Legacy Podcast - https://www.iheart.com/podcast/1119-my-legacy-podcast-255793246/ Man’s Search for Meaning by Viktor Frankl - https://amzn.to/4ajbyaz Dr. Stuart Ablon - https://www.stuartablon.com/ The Subtle Art of Not Giving a F*ck: A Counterintuitive Approach to Living a Good Life by Mark Manson - https://amzn.to/3PCqxmi Guest’s Links: Mel’s website - https://www.melrobbins.com/ Mel’s podcast - https://www.melrobbins.com/podcast Mel’s Instagram - https://www.instagram.com/melrobbins/ Mel’s Twitter - https://x.com/melrobbins Mel’s Facebook - https://www.facebook.com/melrobbins Mel’s YouTube - https://www.youtube.com/melrobbins Mel’s TikTok - https://www.tiktok.com/@melrobbins Connect with Jen! Jen’s website - https://jenhatmaker.com/ Jen’s Instagram - https://instagram.com/jenhatmaker Jen’s Twitter - https://twitter.com/jenHatmaker/ Jen’s Facebook - https://facebook.com/jenhatmaker Jen’s YouTube - https://www.youtube.com/user/JenHatmaker The For the Love Podcast is presented by Audacy. To learn more about listener data and our privacy practices visit: https://www.audacyinc.com/privacy-policy Learn more about your ad choices. Visit https://podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Description: In this thought-provoking conversation, Jen and Amy speak with “poet laureate of the ordinary” Kelly Corrrigan about the valuable lessons from life she’s reflecting on in this season: the significance of saying hard things, the power of listening and understanding in relationships, observations from parenting and from a career as a writer, podcaster and storyteller, and the importance of participating in democracy, regardless of who is in power. In this episode, which was recorded on Election Day 2024 (prior to knowing the outcome) Kelly uses her trademark wit and steadfast wisdom to offer listeners evergreen words of encouragement for our political landscape and for our lives in whole. Segments: Bless & Release: Lies we tell ourselves GenXcellence: MTV music videos *** Thought-provoking Quotes: “We have created this way of interpreting someone changing their mind as a flip-flopper and we have left no room for someone to grow.” – Kelly Corrigan “Making is good for individual well-being. Having an inventor’s or innovator’s mindset is just good for society.” – Kelly Corrigan “Once you say something out loud, it just gets smaller. It packs less of a punch. It’s the stuff that we’re holding and never saying to anyone that’s going to be the death of us.” – Kelly Corrigan Resources Mentioned in This Episode: The Strumbellas - https://thestrumbellas.ca/ Arcade Fire - https://www.arcadefire.com/ Mt. Joy - https://www.mtjoyband.com/ Bless and Release sweatshirt - https://shop.jenhatmaker.com/collections/apparel-accessories/products/bless-release-sweatshirt Jamie Wright - https://www.instagram.com/jamietheveryworst/ MTV - https://www.mtv.com/ American Bandstand TV show (1952-1989) - https://www.imdb.com/title/tt0049993/ Madonna - Like a Virgin - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s__rX_WL100 American Top 40 with Casey Kasem (1970-1988) - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/American_Top_40 The Middle Place by Kelly Corrigan - https://amzn.to/3AgM14g Tell Me More: Stories About the 12 Hardest Things I'm Learning to Say by Kelly Corrigan - https://amzn.to/3UGcjUf Kelly’s IG post about the NYC Marathon - https://www.instagram.com/p/DB7IZumy6aR/ National Lampoon’s Animal House film (1978) - https://www.imdb.com/title/tt0077975/ Nantucket Project - https://nantucketproject.com/ Nantucket Project 2024 - Kelly Corrigan’s Annual Wrap-Up - https://nantucketproject.com/2-2024-gathering/ Aspen Ideas Festival - https://www.aspenideas.org/ TED - https://www.ted.com/ Marianne the Maker by Kelly Corrigan and Claire Corrigan Lichty - https://amzn.to/4hBUY92 George Sweetland (illustrator) - https://www.georgesweetland.org/ Bryan Stevenson on Kelly Corrigan Wonders - https://www.kellycorrigan.com/podcast/category/Bryan+Stevenson Jennifer Garner and Christy Turlington Burns on Kelly Corrigan Wonders - https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/jennifer-garner-and-christy-turlington-burns-talking-moms/id1532951390?i=1000654904522 Steve Kerr on Kelly Corrigan Wonders - https://www.kellycorrigan.com/podcast/kerrkamau Guest’s Links: Kelly Corrigan Website - https://www.kellycorrigan.com/ Kelly Corrigan Wonders Podcast - https://www.kellycorrigan.com/podcast Kelly Corrigan Books - https://www.kellycorrigan.com/books Kelly’s Instagram - https://www.instagram.com/kellycorrigan/ Kelly’s Facebook -https://www.facebook.com/kellycorriganauthor Kelly’s YouTube - https://www.youtube.com/@kellycorriganvideo Connect with Jen! Jen’s website - https://jenhatmaker.com/ Jen’s Instagram - https://instagram.com/jenhatmaker Jen’s Twitter - https://twitter.com/jenHatmaker/ Jen’s Facebook - https://facebook.com/jenhatmaker Jen’s YouTube - https://www.youtube.com/user/JenHatmaker The For the Love Podcast is presented by Audacy. To learn more about listener data and our privacy practices visit: https://www.audacyinc.com/privacy-policy Learn more about your ad choices. Visit https://podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Description: Life throws some challenging stuff at us. Sometimes we rely on traditional therapies and resources trusted in Western medicine to help us through. And sometimes, we need to look to alternative and newly emerging tools to experience the relief or breakthrough that we need. In today’s conversation, Mimi Bouchard, founder of the Activations app (formerly known as Superuman) shares her transformative journey from a troubled adolescence marked by substance abuse and self-doubt to becoming a successful entrepreneur and advocate for personal development. She discusses how her unique approach to 'activations' has helped her and so many others achieve emotional and mental wellbeing by utilizing unique audios that are a mix between a motivational podcast, cinematic music and guided visualization. From guided visualization practices and breathwork to grounding, reiki, and other body work Jen and Amy also talk about other “woo-woo” wellness approaches that have been useful for them in their healing needs.  For The Love listeners have an opportunity to try Activations at a steep discount on a yearly subscription by visiting activations.com/jen. *** Thought-provoking Quotes: It was the beginning of a completely new life for me. I’m not going to say that I woke up the next day and I was perfect and completely transformed. It’s obviously a mega-journey and it’s not linear and growth is so messy. – Mimi Bouchard  I had to believe in myself. The only thing that got me there was just this core deep belief in myself that I had to develop. I didn’t have that in my younger years. Doing this work of personal development was the only thing that mattered when everyone else doubted me. It drove me. At the end of the day, it’s a very lonely journey at the beginning. I had to be alone a lot. I had to be the only one who deeply believed in myself. – Mimi Bouchard When you’re feeling alive, it slows down time. What a blessing to be able to slow down time – life goes by so quickly. The more things we can do to slow down time, the better our lives will be, and more clear. You have to unnumb yourself. When you numb yourself so much, it’s very hard to get clear or get unstuck. It’s very easy to stay in your old ways and just numb, numb, numb until you just feel nothing anymore. – Mimi Bouchard I think so much of it is the intention with which you do things. If you are open-hearted and seeking, a lot of tools can benefit you. – Amy Hardin Resources Mentioned in This Episode: The Success Principles: How to Get from Where You Are to Where You Want to Be by Jack Canfield - https://amzn.to/3CYaVq7 Activations App - https://www.superhuman.app/home Activate Your Future Self: The Secret to Effortlessly Becoming the Happiest, Healthiest and Wealthiest You by Mimi Bouchard - https://amzn.to/4gck8t6 Guest’s Links: Mimi’s website - https://www.mimibouchard.com/about Mimi’s Instagram - https://www.instagram.com/mimibouchard Mimi’s Twitter - https://x.com/mimibouchard Mimi’s Facebook - https://www.facebook.com/officialmimibouchard Activations App - https://www.superhuman.app/home Connect with Jen! Jen’s website - https://jenhatmaker.com/ Jen’s Instagram - https://instagram.com/jenhatmaker Jen’s Twitter - https://twitter.com/jenHatmaker/ Jen’s Facebook - https://facebook.com/jenhatmaker Jen’s YouTube - https://www.youtube.com/user/JenHatmaker The For the Love Podcast is presented by Audacy.  To learn more about listener data and our privacy practices visit: https://www.audacyinc.com/privacy-policy Learn more about your ad choices. Visit https://podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Description: In part two of this epic conversation, we continue our journey around the globe with Sydney Hatmaker to hear about some of the amazing adventures and experiences had during her six months travelling across Europe and Asia on a tiny budget. In this episode: ● We hear how staying connected while travelling can have some serious pros and cons ● Sydney tells us about the 200 hours of intense yoga training she underwent in the magical landscape of the Indian Himalayan Mountains ● She tells us about her heart-pounding experience climbing a (LITERAL) active volcano, Mount Rinjani in Indonesia, and how it was the hardest thing she has ever done ● And Sydney tells us how she ultimately decided that it was time to hang up the backpack and come back home. As you dream and make plans for 2025, we hope this episode inspires you to broaden your horizons, to take chances, and to say yes to new things. One thing we are sure of is that this once-in-a-lifetime adventure is sure to be repeated. The only question is where will we go? *** Thought-provoking Quotes: I get why people climb mountains. It’s so empowering. You push up hard against the growing edge of your own limits. I didn’t even know that I was capable of pushing myself that hard. You just take that feeling and it's contagious, it spreads to other parts of your life. – Sydney Hatmaker I met this amazing 70 year old woman in one of my hosels in Turkey who started backpacking when she retired. She had been all throughout the entirety of the Middle East. She was so incredible. We all gathered around her. She had the most incredible stories. – Sydney Hatmaker Resources Mentioned in This Episode: The 9 Enneagram Types Descriptions - https://www.enneagraminstitute.com/type-descriptions/ Skyscanner - https://www.skyscanner.com/ Rick Steves Travel Guides - https://amzn.to/41mKeFX Berghain Techno Club in Berlin - https://bit.ly/4gfaMNq Sagrada Familia - https://sagradafamilia.org/en/ Jen’s MeCamp - https://bit.ly/3D1qX2I The Banana Pancake Trail - https://trail.bananabackpacks.com/banana-pancake-trail/ Hostel World - https://www.hostelworld.com/ Pyramid Yogshala Yoga School - https://pyramidyogshala.com/ Guest’s Links: Connect with Jen! Jen’s website - https://jenhatmaker.com/ Jen’s Instagram - https://instagram.com/jenhatmaker Jen’s Twitter - https://twitter.com/jenHatmaker/ Jen’s Facebook - https://facebook.com/jenhatmaker Jen’s YouTube - https://www.youtube.com/user/JenHatmaker The For the Love Podcast is presented by Audacy. To learn more about listener data and our privacy practices visit: https://www.audacyinc.com/privacy-policy Learn more about your ad choices. Visit https://podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Description: At 24 years old, Jennifer Hatmaker was parenting her first diaper baby on no sleep as a stay-at-home mom and pastor’s wife. By contrast, Jen’s second-born, Sydney Hatmaker, spent half of her 24th year on a gap year travelling the world and banking a lifetime of memories. In this special two-part conversation, Sydney walks us through some of the best moments and lessons learned from her life-changing adventure, beginning in May in Berlin and ending in October in Vietnam. With stops along the way in Sicily, Turkey, Portugal, Spain, Malaysia, Indonesia, India, and Thailand, Sydney gives us some of her best tips for travelling solo on a shoestring budget. It might entail a 40-hour journey taking a car to a bus to a ferry to a bus, to another ferry, to a train, to a taxi, to a scooter, to a hostel, all to save $60, but the point is it can be done and she’s here to inspire us all with tales from her adventure. Highlights from this conversation include: In our GenXcellence Travel-Edition, we reflect on what travel was like for us in the 80s-90s, before satellites and cell phones and Expedia (Sydney has never heard of Traveller’s Cheques)  Sydney gives us her best tips for getting into one of the world’s most popular techno clubs in Berlin (shh! It’s very hush-hush!) We learn about surfing camp on the coastline of the Portuguese Riviera  Why you need to budget more for European travel than Asian travel and how you can eat in Asia on $4 a day Sydney talks about learning to be comfortable travelling on her own and being in her own company – something she thought she was already good at but was pushed to new limits And a lot more….. Be sure to tune in for part two of our conversation next week to hear how the story ends.  *** Thought-provoking Quotes: I didn’t have a phone for the last two months of my trip. I still had a laptop so when I was at the hostel on wifi, I could do research and book things but it was a different kind of travel. I made the most of it and it ended up being a bit of an adventure.I obviously had an initial reaction of panic (not having a phone) but then I felt this complete freedom. – Sydney Hatmaker I did have some big ideas that I would get something out of my system on this trip, that I would come home and settle down, get a real job, root down in one place but halfway through my trip I realized there is so much more (in the world) that I want to see. There’s so much to do, so much to see and explore and so many ways to make it happen. – Sydney Hatmaker  Travelling feels different and way more real when you’re by yourself. I love my own company and my company is better than some random person that I’m not really connecting with. And realizing that, makes it really easy to connect with more people. – Sydney Hatmaker  Resources Mentioned in This Episode: The 9 Enneagram Types Descriptions - https://www.enneagraminstitute.com/type-descriptions/ Skyscanner - https://www.skyscanner.com/ Rick Steves Travel Guides - https://amzn.to/41mKeFX Berghain Techno Club in Berlin - https://bit.ly/4gfaMNq Sagrada Familia - https://sagradafamilia.org/en/ Jen’s MeCamp - https://bit.ly/3D1qX2I The Banana Pancake Trail - https://trail.bananabackpacks.com/banana-pancake-trail/ Hostel World - https://www.hostelworld.com/ Pyramid Yogshala Yoga School - https://pyramidyogshala.com/ Guest’s Links: Connect with Jen! Jen’s website - https://jenhatmaker.com/ Jen’s Instagram - https://instagram.com/jenhatmaker Jen’s Twitter - https://twitter.com/jenHatmaker/ Jen’s Facebook - https://facebook.com/jenhatmaker Jen’s YouTube - https://www.youtube.com/user/JenHatmaker The For the Love Podcast is presented by Audacy.  To learn more about listener data and our privacy practices visit: https://www.audacyinc.com/privacy-policy Learn more about your ad choices. Visit https://podcastchoices.com/adchoices

This week Jen and Amy sit down with actress, musician, and author Bethany Joy Lenz to discuss her deeply personal memoir, Dinner for Vampires: Life on a Cult TV Show (While also in an Actual Cult!). Bethany opens up about her experience in a high-control group, known as “The Big House Family” religious cult, the complexities of spiritual abuse, and how she found her way back to faith and autonomy with the help of a One Tree Hill fan. They explore themes of manipulation, resilience, and the power of telling your story. This raw and inspiring conversation offers hope, clarity, and empowerment for anyone navigating their own path to freedom. Jen and Amy “Rant or Rave” about New Year’s resolutions and Amy teaches us some creative perspectives to take to feel more successful in this space.  And we reminisce about our favorite shows from the early 2000s. West Wing… the best! Criminal Minds, 24, Gray’s Anatomy, all bingeable. Gilmore Girls, c’mon. And what about One Tree Hill? *** Thought-provoking Quotes: It doesn’t feel like a courageous act. It’s survival. Courage is when you are fully aware of the dangers that lie ahead – like a fireman, willing to run into a burning building to grab a baby – that’s courage because you know what’s at stake. When you are already in the burning building trying to find your way out, it doesn’t take courage, it’s survival – “find me the exit, how do I get out?” – Bethany Joy Lenz My faith has evolved into something that is much more connected to my gut which feels much more authentic. I feel a lot more comfortable asking questions and I really value doubt. The truth rises to the top. I think God is capable of communicating with all of us when it’s the right time in the right way. If the gospel shows us anything, it's that God meets us where we are. – Bethany Joy Lenz I think a lot of Christians live in a space where we think it's very noble to not question God, like we think he’ll love us more, appreciate us more, we’ll be better disciples or believers. But he gave us the brains that we have for a reason. Is he capable of satisfying our intellect or not? So, push the button as hard and as far down as you can. It’ll hold. – Bethany Joy Lenz God is big enough to hold all of you. There’s nothing that you can present to God that is going to scare him off. He can handle the worst version of you, the angry version of you, the confused version of you. You don’t need other people to hold you. The Bible is full of stories of God one-on-one with someone (Job, Moses, Jesus) so you don’t need to be afraid of being alone with the Lord. – Bethany Joy Lenz Resources Mentioned in This Episode: Paul Teal - https://www.imdb.com/name/nm3806295/ Joy’s tribute to Paul Teal - https://www.instagram.com/reel/DCf3CtopQt1/ Dinner for Vampires: Life on a Cult TV Show (While also in an Actual Cult!) - https://www.amazon.com/Dinner-Vampires-Life-While-Actual/dp/1668067307 Drama Queens Podcast - https://open.spotify.com/show/344eFGlcjmdAUqvWzPJzBk Tim Keller sermon on Doubt - https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/praying-our-doubts/id352660924?i=1000678149013 Modern Vintage News - https://www.modernvintagenews.com/ Guest’s Links: Joy’s Instagram - https://www.instagram.com/msbethanyjoylenz/ Joy’s Twitter - https://x.com/itsjoylenz Joy’s Facebook - https://www.facebook.com/BethanyJoyLenz/ Joy’s YouTube - https://www.youtube.com/@msbethanyjoylenz Connect with Jen! Jen’s website - https://jenhatmaker.com/ Jen’s Instagram - https://instagram.com/jenhatmaker Jen’s Twitter - https://twitter.com/jenHatmaker/ Jen’s Facebook - https://facebook.com/jenhatmaker Jen’s YouTube - https://www.youtube.com/user/JenHatmaker The For the Love Podcast is presented by Audacy.  To learn more about listener data and our privacy practices visit: https://www.audacyinc.com/privacy-policy Learn more about your ad choices. Visit https://podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Description: In this delightful episode, Jen Hatmaker sits down with bestselling author Josie Silver, the brilliant mind behind One Day in December. Josie shares her journey from writing ten novels to achieving massive success with this enchanting Christmas love story. Together, Jen and Josie discuss the creative process, the inspiration behind her characters, and the challenges of crafting a love story that spans a decade. Josie opens up about the unexpected ways her personal life influences her writing, how she brings authenticity to her characters, and what it feels like to finally hit her stride after years of writing. Whether you're a die-hard romance fan or simply looking for your next great read, this cozy conversation will inspire and entertain. Thought-provoking Quotes: You write the men you want them to be, not necessarily the men they are. That’s part of the magic of romance writing.” – Josie Silver “I think a lot of the little, quiet moments in life—the shorthand between people who truly know each other—are what make stories feel real.” – Josie Silver “Do you want help, or do you want a hug?” – Jen Hatmaker, reflecting on parenting young adults. It was a joy to write this book. Some books come out more easily than others and, this one, I wrote in six weeks. Some books have taken six months, some have taken far longer; whereas this one, every time I sat down, everything just seemed to work. – Josie Silver Resources Mentioned in This Episode: One Day in December: A Novel by Josie Silver - https://amzn.to/3OD2D9A Guest’s Links: Josie’s books - https://amzn.to/3VlTFl3 Josie’s website - https://josiesilver.com/ Josie’s Instagram - https://www.instagram.com/josiesilverauthor Josie’s Twitter - https://x.com/josiesilver Josie’s BlueSky - https://bsky.app/profile/josiesilver.bsky.social Josie’s Facebook - https://www.facebook.com/JosieSilverAuthor Connect with Jen! Jen’s website - https://jenhatmaker.com/ Jen’s Instagram - https://instagram.com/jenhatmaker Jen’s Twitter - https://twitter.com/jenHatmaker/ Jen’s Facebook - https://facebook.com/jenhatmaker Jen’s YouTube - https://www.youtube.com/user/JenHatmaker The For the Love Podcast is presented by Audacy.  To learn more about listener data and our privacy practices visit: https://www.audacyinc.com/privacy-policy Learn more about your ad choices. Visit https://podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Settle in, listeners. Jen and Amy have invited Greek and New Testament professor and scholar, Reverend Dr. Angela N. Parker to the show to reflect on the Advent season with some words of hope and liberation. She took our butts to seminary, opening our eyes to what it looks like when you examine the scripture through the lens of womanist theology and the experiences of Black women. But as Dr. Parker tells us, “I’ve lived long enough to know that God will bring me through but sometimes it’s hard and sometimes it hurts. But even after the hurt, the tender spots get more resilient.” There’s so much to unpack in this one. Jen and Amy discuss their favorite Christmas movies and debate whether classics like Gremlins and Die Hard fit the genre  Dr. Parker explains how liberation is a collective journey, not an individual one – and how everyone, including white men, can need it. We learn how understanding the historical context of scripture is vital for its interpretation. And we also talk about some of the holiday hullabaloo we’re ready to Bless and Release this season. *** Thought-provoking Quotes: “If I’m liberated, I don’t want to be liberated alone.” – Dr. Angela N. Parker “We don’t want to think about the early church being enslavers.” – Dr. Angela N. Parker “If our biblical text is wrestling with the idea of empire from Genesis to Revelation, we are wrestling with empire as well.” –– Dr. Angela N. Parker “When we work as a collective, we actually do better to transform society.” – Dr. Angela N. Parker “The tree at the end of Revelation 21 has the leaves for the healing of all the “Ethnae”, for all the ethnicities, for all the nations. That’s what John the Revelator sees in his final vision.” – Dr. Angela N. Parker “In my own work, I talk about how I try to even get whiteness out of me. Even as an African American woman born and raised in these United States, there are elements of whiteness that are in me, on me and a part of me. That’s just what we swim in.” – Dr. Angela N. Parker “Hope breaks forth in the midst of terror, fear, and overwhelm. It’s normal to have [those feelings]. Don’t trick yourself into ignoring them. It’s best for us to acknowledge what is going on around us but to remember that hope breaks through.” – Dr. Angela N. Parker “I’ve lived long enough to know that God will bring me through but sometimes it’s still hard and sometimes it still hurts. But even after the hurt, the tender spots get more resilient.” – Dr. Angela N. Parker Resources Mentioned in This Episode: Orange Theory - https://www.orangetheory.com/en-us James Hal Cone - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/James_H._Cone Jacquelyn Grant - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jacquelyn_Grant Delores Williams - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Delores_S._Williams Katie Cannon - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Katie_Cannon Alice Walker - https://alicewalkersgarden.com/ Rev. Dr. Margaret Aymer - https://www.austinseminary.edu/cf_directory/dirprofile.cfm?p=2576&id=4459 Sisters in the Wilderness: The Challenge of Womanist God by Delores Williams - https://amzn.to/4eV3Nce If God Still Breathes, Why Can't I?: Black Lives Matter and Biblical Authority by Rev. Dr. Angela N. Parker - https://amzn.to/3YkO9Qo Guest’s Links: Angela’s website - https://theology.mercer.edu/faculty-and-staff/parker/ Angela’s Instagram - https://www.instagram.com/boozybiblescholar/ Angela’s Twitter - https://x.com/BzyBibleScholar Angela’s Facebook - https://www.facebook.com/WomanistNTScholar/ Angela’s TikTok - https://www.tiktok.com/@boozybiblescholar   Connect with Jen! Jen’s website - https://jenhatmaker.com/ Jen’s Instagram - https://instagram.com/jenhatmaker Jen’s Twitter - https://twitter.com/jenHatmaker/ Jen’s Facebook - https://facebook.com/jenhatmaker Jen’s YouTube - https://www.youtube.com/user/JenHatmaker The For the Love Podcast is presented by Audacy. To learn more about listener data and our privacy practices visit: https://www.audacyinc.com/privacy-policy Learn more about your ad choices. Visit https://podcastchoices.com/adchoices

This week Jen introduces Amy and the For the Love audience to her long-time friend, comedian Heather Land, who gained fame as a social media sensation through her viral I Ain’t Doin’ It videos. They discuss Heather’s journey from an early career in ministry to one in comedy, and now to her newest passion project, life coaching. Heather talks to Jen and Amy about the impact of burnout and the challenges of reinventing oneself, especially at different life stages and finding joy in her new creative project, the Dear Heathers podcast (that she co-hosts with best-friend Heather Lenard) encouraging other women to embrace their journeys and feel empowered. In this episode: Jen and Amy share their mixed feelings on receiving unsolicited advice. Inspired by the Dear Heathers podcast, Amy and Jen reminisce about what it was like using landline phones when they were teens. Shocker: Jen even remembers her old phone number! The group talks about the importance of recognizing signs of burnout and how reinventing oneself is a vital part of personal growth Heather shares how support from friends can play a crucial role in our journey, like when her friend advised her to ‘do it [comedy] afraid’. Jen, Amy, and Heather talk about women looking to others with relatable stories when they go through difficult experiences and how community can be our greatest lifeline. *** Thought-provoking Quotes: “What do I have to lose except my dignity?” – Heather Land “Standup is maybe the hardest form of comedy. It’s not scripted. You don’t have directors and writers. It is a hot seat and it’s live. It’s sink or swim. You picked the hardest way to be funny.” – Jen Hatmaker “You are in full integrity when you make a change when something is still working. That is a move that is in full alignment which is something to be proud of.” – Jen Hatmaker “We ask kids ‘what do you want to be when you grow up?” and I don’t think we leave a lot of room for ‘What do I want to be next?’ or ‘what do I want to be when I’m 40, or 50, or 60?’.” – Heather Land  “I’m sorry, I have not hired you as my life coach.” – Amy Hardin Resources Mentioned in This Episode: Heather’s I Ain’t Doin’ It Playlist - https://youtu.be/slcwYADYwRc?si=Oe-m-0jf3-wDdVmH Dear Heathers Podcast - https://www.heatherlandofficial.com/podcast Heather Lenard - https://www.heatherlenard.com/ Life Coaching with Heather Land - https://www.heatherlandofficial.com/life-coach#book-an-appointment Nichole Nordeman - https://www.instagram.com/nicholenordeman/ Susannah Lewis (Whoa Susannah) - https://whoasusannah.com/ Jen Hatmaker Book Club Cruise January 30-February 3, 2025 - https://shop.jenhatmaker.com/pages/cruise Only Murders in the Building - https://www.hulu.com/series/only-murders-in-the-building Should men take baths? - Dear Heathers: Ep. 3 Bath Time with the Swon Brothers - https://apple.co/4eI6s9b Guest’s Links: Heathers’s website - https://www.heatherlandofficial.com/ Heather’s Instagram - https://www.instagram.com/heatherland_iaintdoinit Heather’s Facebook - https://www.facebook.com/iaintdoinit/ Heather’s YouTube - https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCs4omp2klYLTOqqY56j-8Ag Dear Heathers Podcast - https://www.heatherlandofficial.com/podcast Connect with Jen! Jen’s website - https://jenhatmaker.com/ Jen’s Instagram - https://instagram.com/jenhatmaker Jen’s Twitter - https://twitter.com/jenHatmaker/ Jen’s Facebook - https://facebook.com/jenhatmaker Jen’s YouTube - https://www.youtube.com/user/JenHatmaker The SupportBeltTM is designed and validated for Ford and Lincoln vehicle specifications and is intended only for use in those vehicles; Ford is making the design available via license for other automakers to manufacture and test in their vehicles. For shoulder belt use only. Do not use on lap portion of belt. Not for use by children or with child seats or booster seats. For use by mastectomy patients. The For the Love Podcast is presented by Audacy. To learn more about listener data and our privacy practices visit: https://www.audacyinc.com/privacy-policy Learn more about your ad choices. Visit https://podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Krista Tippett's work in the realm of spirituality and human experience is unparalleled. She just has a divine gift for distilling complex topics into clear, palatable information that we can sit with, dissect, and examine. She uses her OnBeing podcast as a place to conduct honest conversations with theologians and thought leaders about what it means to be human, what it means to be alive. Curiosity is welcome in her space. She brings a sense of calm to everything around her. So during the frenzy of the holidays, which can be both joyful and stressful, we wanted to circle back to this centering conversation with Krista to decompress and be at peace with the world. This conversation feels like an oasis in what is always a chaotic month so it’s our gift to bring it back for you this week.  Segments: Bless and Release: Rules for holiday decorating and making the holidays magical GenXcellence: Essentials for outfitting a GenX space *** Thought-provoking Quotes: If a thing is feeling stressful and not joyful, it needs to be re-evaluated. – Jen Hatmaker I actually found in the Bible, reading it for myself directly, that it completely honored the questions, and it honored the anguish, and it was full of things that didn’t make sense or were contradictory. And for me that was an opening to not feel that faith had to be in opposition to what didn’t make sense or was contradictory. – Krista Tippett There has to be a way to represent the complexity of this, and also the centrality of it, the fact that it’s more about questions than it is about answers, and the array of how we walk around with this, and what it means in our lives, and the ways we practice, and the vocabulary we have, and the different ways we pray. I wanted to show that you could talk about this and we could speak about the part of ourselves that we mean when we use language of religious or spiritual. – Krista Tippett The sensibility, the intentionality with which something is offered, shapes the reaction that comes at it. – Krista Tippett I do have a spiritual homeland and I do have a spiritual mother tongue. That matters. – Krista Tippett Resources Mentioned in This Episode: Walter Brueggeman – https://www.walterbrueggemann.com/ The Prophetic Imagination – https://onbeing.org/programs/walter-brueggemann-the-prophetic-imagination-dec2018/  Thích Nhât Hanh – https://plumvillage.org/  Desmond Tutu – https://www.tutu.org.za/  Mary Oliver – https://www.poetryfoundation.org/poets/mary-oliver  I Got Saved By the Beauty of the World – https://onbeing.org/programs/mary-oliver-i-got-saved-by-the-beauty-of-the-world/ Guest’s Links: OnBeing Podcast - https://onbeing.org/series/podcast/ Krista’s website - https://onbeing.org/our-story/krista-tippett/ Krista’s Twitter - https://x.com/kristatippett Connect with Jen! Jen’s website - https://jenhatmaker.com/ Jen’s Instagram - https://instagram.com/jenhatmaker Jen’s Twitter - https://twitter.com/jenHatmaker/ Jen’s Facebook - https://facebook.com/jenhatmaker Jen’s YouTube - https://www.youtube.com/user/JenHatmaker The For the Love Podcast is presented by Audacy.  To learn more about listener data and our privacy practices visit: https://www.audacyinc.com/privacy-policy Learn more about your ad choices. Visit https://podcastchoices.com/adchoices

As we journey into this Advent season, Scott Erickson, better known to most by his moniker in the internet and art world as Scott the Painter, discusses his journey of faith and the creation of his 'Honest Advent,' project aimed at reinterpreting traditional Christmas narratives through a lens of vulnerability and authenticity. He reflects on the paradoxes of belief, the importance of community, and the need for honest conversations about faith and the human experience, particularly during the Advent season. With a great deal of compassion and humor, Scott shares insights into his creative process, the significance of connection in his work (which has resonated so deeply with his community that many have it tattooed on their bodies), and the need for honest spiritual experiences in today's world. His work is not just visually beautiful. It’s also meaningful, bringing a beautiful new approach to an old and familiar story. Thought-provoking Quotes: “As an artist, I love the brand of Christmas – red and green, complimentary colors. I love the music – the soundtrack, I love all of it. But I thought, is this a distraction from life or is this a hopeful message for the reality of it?” – Scott Erickson “I want to know if I should just give up on my beliefs. If God’s not in the world and this isn’t a story that’s happening, then I just want to move on. But, if we are celebrating this thing and if it is happening, then that’s what my invitation is. By going through those things, and thinking through, and praying through, and then creating out of it, the fact that it then becomes a path for others to walk, that’s the greatest gift in making art.” – Scott Erickson  “It’s amazing, the alchemy of what happens when you hand the work over and then it becomes something new in the hands of your audience and the people that are experiencing it and they bring a story to it that you couldn’t even fathom. You’ve done your part, you did the creation part, stewarding your gift, putting it out there to the best of your ability and then they take it and it becomes something more. I’ll never get over that exchange.” – Jen Hatmaker Resources Mentioned in This Episode: FitBit - https://store.google.com/category/trackers Scott’s Tattoo FAQ - https://www.scottericksonart.com/tattoo-faq Say Yes: Discover the Surprising Life beyond the Death of a Dream by Scott Erickson - https://amzn.to/3AEVfao Scott Erickson’s Shows - https://www.scottericksonart.com/shows The Enneagram Institute Personality Types - https://www.enneagraminstitute.com/type-descriptions/ Honest Advent: Awakening to the Wonder of God-with-Us Then, Here, and Now by Scott Erickson - https://amzn.to/4fgK6fc Guest’s Links: Scott’s website - https://www.scottericksonart.com/ Scott’s Instagram - https://www.instagram.com/scottthepainter Scott’s Twitter - https://x.com/scottthepainter Scott’s Facebook - https://www.facebook.com/scottthepainter Scott’s YouTube - https://www.youtube.com/@scottericksonart Scott’s Pinterest - https://www.pinterest.com/scottthepainter/_created/ Connect with Jen! Jen’s website - https://jenhatmaker.com/ Jen’s Instagram - https://instagram.com/jenhatmaker Jen’s Twitter - https://twitter.com/jenHatmaker/ Jen’s Facebook - https://facebook.com/jenhatmaker Jen’s YouTube - https://www.youtube.com/user/JenHatmaker The For the Love Podcast is presented by Audacy. To learn more about listener data and our privacy practices visit: https://www.audacyinc.com/privacy-policy Learn more about your ad choices. Visit https://podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Today, Jen gets to fulfill a dream of interviewing one of her favorite influences and mentors in the food world. The iconic six-time James Beard award-winning Ruth Reichl sits down with Jen to discuss her extensive impact on food culture spanning the last several decades. They hit on everything from the alarming state of the modern food industrial complex, how we source our food and the impacts it poses to our health (as well as the hope they see for our future), to what it has been like to document the evolution of food across the changing media landscape of print media and the internet. Ruth reflects on highlights from her career as a chef, food critic, editor, tv personality, author, novelist and documentarian and discusses the challenges and joys of her various roles in the culinary world, including the emotional toll of her work which has garnered both admiration and criticism. *** Thought-provoking Quotes: The way that we eat, the way we have handed over our health, our environment, our communities to the idea of industrialized food is truly terrifying. – Ruth Reichl The more you say no, the more people want you. – Ruth Reichl Almost no one likes what is written about them. No matter how flattering a portrait may be, people don’t like it. So when it’s really not flattering, people don’t like it. – Ruth Reichl Resources Mentioned in This Episode: Food and Country Film - https://www.foodandcountryfilm.com/ Michael Pollan - https://amzn.to/4g1bkGV Barbara Kingsolver - https://amzn.to/3D0fv7f White Oak Pastures - https://whiteoakpastures.com/ Gourmet Magazine - https://bit.ly/3D2LN1B Tender at the Bone: Growing Up at the Table by Ruth Reichl - https://amzn.to/3OEwjmS Condé Nast - https://www.cntraveler.com/contributor/ruth-reichl New York Times - https://www.nytimes.com/by/ruth-reichl Garlic and Sapphires: The Secret Life of a Critic in Disguise by Ruth Reichl - https://amzn.to/4ifrUo9 The Paris Novel by Ruth Reichl - https://amzn.to/3BfyUk4 Save Me the Plums: My Gourmet Memoir by Ruth Reichl - https://amzn.to/49vwfiX Guest’s Links: Ruth’s Instagram - https://www.instagram.com/ruth.reichl/ Ruth’s Twitter - https://x.com/ruthreichl Ruth’s Facebook - https://www.facebook.com/@ruthreichlbooks Ruth’s Substack - https://ruthreichl.substack.com/ Connect with Jen! Jen’s website - https://jenhatmaker.com/ Jen’s Instagram - https://instagram.com/jenhatmaker Jen’s Twitter - https://twitter.com/jenHatmaker/ Jen’s Facebook - https://facebook.com/jenhatmaker Jen’s YouTube - https://www.youtube.com/user/JenHatmaker The For the Love Podcast is presented To learn more about listener data and our privacy practices visit: https://www.audacyinc.com/privacy-policy Learn more about your ad choices. Visit https://podcastchoices.com/adchoices

In this conversation, recorded the morning after the presidential election, comedy phenom Tig Notaro joins Jen and Amy (donned head to toe in black in mourning) to unpack the events of the day and to help them find their happy place in the world again, which she accomplishes with tactical success. By the end of the show, they’ve laughed so hard, they’ve forgotten most of their cares.  In this episode, Tig regales us with her journey as an Emmy and Grammy-nominated comedian, the influence of her free-spirited mother, and how her family dynamics (and a few hilarious stories from her boys) have shaped her comedy. She also reflects on her journey of authenticity, what it means to be an icon in the LGBTQ+ community, and the significance of being true to oneself.  In Rant or Rave, Jen and Amy muse about whether or not they have the chops to make it in stand-up, and we learn that Amy definitely has a deep well of material at her disposal. Speaking of which, be sure to listen for Tig’s story about the weirdest gig she’s ever performed! *** Thought-provoking Quotes:  One of the things my mother told me growing up was to tell everyone to go to hell if they had a problem with me. And I certainly do not walk around telling everyone to go to hell but I think there’s this thing in me, whether you know I was told that or not, I think people can tell that I don’t have a desperation and I’m not going to do backflips for anybody. – Tig Notaro I didn’t bust out of the closet. I went through my own process of figuring things out. I wasn’t born knowing I was gay. When I did come out, it was just an authentic feeling and decision of, this is who I am. – Tig Notaro Resources Mentioned in This Episode: Annette Benning - https://www.imdb.com/name/nm0000906/ John Travolta - https://www.imdb.com/name/nm0000237 Cher - https://www.imdb.com/name/nm0000333 Olivia Coleman - https://www.imdb.com/name/nm1469236/ Broadchurch - https://www.imdb.com/title/tt2249364/ Wicked Little Letters - https://www.imdb.com/title/tt20234774/ Taika Waititi - https://www.imdb.com/name/nm0169806/ Ryan Reynolds - https://www.imdb.com/name/nm0005351 Denzel Washington - https://www.imdb.com/name/nm0000243 Julia Roberts - https://www.imdb.com/name/nm0000210 Notting Hill - https://www.imdb.com/title/tt0125439 Jason Bateman - https://www.imdb.com/name/nm0000867 Smartless Docuseries - https://play.max.com/show/f8c800e3-7639-4883-a0f1-8eb5adbb5ced I’m Just a Person by Tig Notaro - https://amzn.to/3ZjlfQY Tig: A Netflix Documentary - https://www.imdb.com/title/tt3986532/ One Mississippi TV series - https://www.imdb.com/title/tt4947608/ Under a Rock with Tig Notaro - https://www.amazon.com/Under-Rock-Tig-Notaro/dp/B07SJZ4TKM Kevin Nealon - https://www.instagram.com/kevinnealon/ This American Life with Ira Glass - https://www.thisamericanlife.org/ Star Trek: Discovery - https://www.imdb.com/title/tt5171438/ Hello Again - https://www.amazon.com/Tig-Notaro-Hello-Again/dp/B0CV4FNJ27 Guest’s Links: Tig’s website - https://tignation.com/ Tig’s Twitter - https://x.com/tignotaro Tig’s Facebook - https://www.facebook.com/tignotarocomedy/ Tig’s YouTube - https://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=tig+notaro Handsome Podcast - https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/handsome/id1702258458 Don’t Ask Tig Podcast - https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/dont-ask-tig/id1523507379 Connect with Jen! Jen’s website - https://jenhatmaker.com/ Jen’s Instagram - https://instagram.com/jenhatmaker Jen’s Twitter - https://twitter.com/jenHatmaker/ Jen’s Facebook - https://facebook.com/jenhatmaker Jen’s YouTube - https://www.youtube.com/user/JenHatmaker Jen’s Holiday Gift Guide - https://shop.jenhatmaker.com/pages/gift-guide The For the Love Podcast is presented by Audacy.  To learn more about listener data and our privacy practices visit: https://www.audacyinc.com/privacy-policy Learn more about your ad choices. Visit https://podcastchoices.com/adchoices

The Office co-stars and best friends, Jenna Fischer and Angela Kinsey, are doing the ultimate Office-lovers podcast for you. Each week Jenna and Angela will dive deeper into The Office giving you access to even more behind the scene details, interviews and lots of stories that only two best friends who were there, can tell you. To learn more about listener data and our privacy practices visit: https://www.audacyinc.com/privacy-policy Learn more about your ad choices. Visit https://podcastchoices.com/adchoices

This week we welcome back a treasured friend of this show, renowned design guru and the heartbeat of the Fab Five, Bobby Berk!  It’s been four years since we last talked to Bobby so we have a lot of ground to cover in this episode.  Bobby tells us about the designers like Michael Graves and Isaac Mizrahi who he drew inspiration from early in his career. He tells stories about his humble beginnings with retail gigs at stores like Bed Bath & Beyond and Restoration Hardware – maybe part of what makes him so relatable? – and how his career as a designer blossomed from there. And with the holidays upon us, we also take the opportunity to ask Bobby about how he celebrates (or survives) the holidays. He offers some great insights on instituting some personal boundaries to maintain sanity that are not too late to put into rotation this year. *** Thought-provoking Quotes: “At my grandparents' A-frame cabin in Colorado, every square inch was red, and I mean R-E-D shag carpet and it looked like a whole gaggle of muppets laying on the ground….and I think I liked it. I remember laying on the ground threading my fingers through the carpet.” – Jen Hatmaker “I loved going to my friends houses where it was just cool and calm and nothing to look at. But honestly that’s not what I’m drawn to anyway. My house looks like a rainbow exploded. I have a kelly green velvet couch, a gallery wall that has every single color. I’ve got some bat shit wallpaper going on. I’ve decorated it like I’ve never seen the color gray.” – Amy Hardin “I’m drawn to spaces that have life in them, I like color – I like it when a room is even outrageous. Whether or not I would exactly do that thing, I think, ‘I like where your head is at’”. – Jen Hatmaker “You’re the CEO of your own instincts and design and if you love it, it’s going to work.” – Bobby Berk Resources Mentioned in This Episode: Queer Eye for the Straight Guy - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Queer_Eye_(2003_TV_series) Queer Eye - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Queer_Eye_(2018_TV_series) Queer Eye on Netflix - https://www.netflix.com/title/80160037 Series 26: Episode 02: Queer Eye’s Bobby Berk on the Fire Inside Us All - https://jenhatmaker.com/podcasts/series-26/queer-eyes-bobby-berk-and-the-fire-inside-us-all/ BobbyBerk.com - https://bobbyberk.com/ Right at Home: How Good Design Is Good for the Mind: An Interior Design Book by Bobby Berk - https://amzn.to/3A7TjXT When Jen met Bobby in Mexico - https://www.instagram.com/p/B5HMYkUASvc/?utm_source=ig_web_copy_link&igsh=MzRlODBiNWFlZA==  Tripointe Homes Style Finder Quiz - https://bobby-berk.tripointehomes.com/style-finder/ Michael Graves - https://michaelgraves.com/ Michael Graves Target  Collaboration - https://michaelgraves.com/product/target-products/ Isaac Mizrahi Target Collaboration - https://www.target.com/b/isaac-mizrahi/-/N-s73qo Jen’s master bathroom remodel - https://www.instagram.com/p/DB38zmHOrYU/?utm_source=ig_web_copy_link&igsh=MzRlODBiNWFlZA== Bobby at the 76th Emmy’s - https://www.instagram.com/p/C__NYm2yz8G/?utm_source=ig_web_copy_link&igsh=MzRlODBiNWFlZA== RuPaul’s Drag Race - https://www.imdb.com/title/tt1353056/ Celebrity Holiday Homes on HGTV - https://www.imdb.com/title/tt1519269/ Guest’s Links: Bobby’s website - https://bobbyberk.com/ Bobby’s Instagram - https://www.instagram.com/bobby/ Bobby’s Twitter - https://x.com/bobbyberk Bobby’s Facebook - https://www.facebook.com/BobbyBerkOfficial Bobby’s TikTok - https://www.tiktok.com/@bobby Bobby’s Pinterest - https://www.pinterest.com/bobbyberk/  Connect with Jen! Jen’s website - https://jenhatmaker.com/ Jen’s Instagram - https://instagram.com/jenhatmaker Jen’s Twitter - https://twitter.com/jenHatmaker/ Jen’s Facebook - https://facebook.com/jenhatmaker Jen’s YouTube - https://www.youtube.com/user/JenHatmaker The For the Love Podcast is presented by Audacy.  To learn more about listener data and our privacy practices visit: https://www.audacyinc.com/privacy-policy Learn more about your ad choices. Visit https://podcastchoices.com/adchoices

We’re going deep into the archives to pull out a special conversation for this week’s bonus episode with our most beloved friend, Grammy Award-winning singer/songwriter, Amy Grant. The last time Jen and Amy sat down together, it was on the heels of an exhausting,arduous time in our county. Back then, Amy delivered some profound words of wisdom in the peaceful, soothing way that only she can. And we felt her words would be a welcome balm to soothe our weary souls today so we’ve brought it back for you to enjoy as a bonus episode! In addition to some very timely words of wisdom from Amy, this episode covers: Navigating life's difficulties while maintaining a positive outlook — Amy shares a touching story about the final lesson she’s learned from her parents Amy discusses her journey of healing from unexpected open heart surgery and she and Jen talk about learning to respect their bodies and live more in balance The importance of community and support systems, especially when enduring hard circumstances The complexities of cancel culture which has come for Amy on more than one occasion in her career and personal life The evolution of Contemporary Christian Music (CCM) and the “The Queen of Christian Pop’s” impact on music that transcends genres and generations *** Thought-provoking Quotes: “Everybody brings different things to the table. Rapid-fire conversation or investigative or deep conversations might not be their comfort zone but there are other things that are. – Amy Grant “I have my hands on my own wheel. I can’t steer anybody else’s opinions. I can’t steer anybody else’s choices. But I’ve got to own mine.” – Amy Grant “When I was younger, I thought if I don’t say yes to everything, it’ll all stop. It’ll all dry up. It won’t keep coming. It’s my yeses that keep the energy moving forward. But I found out that’s not true at all. That was a fake story. It was just the scarcity mindset.” – Jen Hatmaker “Ask different questions. The next step, the next opportunity, the next enlightenment, the next everything for all of us is within reach. It always has been.” – Amy Grant Resources Mentioned in This Episode: Jen at the Amy Grant concert in Austin 2023 - https://www.instagram.com/p/CxvoBcbujuB/?utm_source=ig_web_copy_link&igsh=MzRlODBiNWFlZA== To learn more about listener data and our privacy practices visit: https://www.audacyinc.com/privacy-policy Learn more about your ad choices. Visit https://podcastchoices.com/adchoices

In this special episode, Jen and Amy get a visit from a Hollywood darling we’ve loved in countless films and shows like The Descendants, Archer, 27 Dresses, Arrested Development and 13 Going on 30 to talk about her newest project based on the beloved children’s book, The Best Christmas Pageant Ever! Actress Judy Greer talks about what it’s like to collaborate on such a treasured holiday story that she somehow missed out on as a kid but was lucky enough to discover when she was cast for the role. She sets the scene for what it was like to film the movie last fall in wintry Winnipeg with a cast full of kids on set and also takes a moment to share some highlights from earlier in her career. Also in this episode:  Amy and Jen talk about their mixed feelings toward pageants and public performances. As you might guess, one of them loves them, one hates them. In our GenXcellence segment, Jen and Amy recount their first movie-without-parents experiences. And we Rant or Rave about decorating the house at Christmastime. *** Thought-provoking Quotes:  “I directed so many programs with my sisters and my girl cousins, and my parents were very, very mediocre audience members. If you’re going to have four kids, guess what you get to do? You’re going to sit on the brown corduroy couch and watch our shitty programs. That’s part of the deal. We practiced for six hours. I had choreography. At one point, I gave Lindsay an umbrella that she had to open at just the right lyric in the song and the bitch could not do it and it was so upsetting.” – Jen Hatmaker  “I think what’s so beautiful about this story is that it’s about unity, and compassion, and empathy. And it’s about being welcoming.” – Judy Greer Resources Mentioned in This Episode: 48 Hours movie (1982) - https://www.imdb.com/title/tt0083511/ Film Rating Guide - https://www.motionpictures.org/film-ratings/ Top Gun movie (1986) - https://www.imdb.com/title/tt0092099/ The Shining movie (1980) - https://www.imdb.com/title/tt0081505/ Alamo Drafthouse Cinema - https://drafthouse.com/austin 37th Street Austin Light Display - https://www.instagram.com/37thstreetlights/ Arrested Development - https://www.netflix.com/title/70140358 13 Going on 30 movie (2004) - https://www.imdb.com/title/tt0337563/ The Descendants movie (2011) - https://www.imdb.com/title/tt1033575/ I Don’t Know What You Know Me From: Confessions of a Co-Star by Judy Greer - https://amzn.to/4hiDC0y The Best Christmas Pageant Ever: A Christmas Holiday Book for Kids by Barbara Robinson - https://amzn.to/3YzrNfh The Best Christmas Pageant Ever movie (2024) - https://bestchristmaspageantever.movie/ Archer - https://www.imdb.com/title/tt1486217/ Citizen Ruth movie (1996) - https://www.imdb.com/title/tt0115906/?ref_=fn_al_tt_1 Dallas Jenkins - https://www.imdb.com/name/nm0420817/?ref_=tt_ov_dr_1 Pete Holmes - https://peteholmes.com/ Guest’s Links: Judy’s Instagram - https://www.instagram.com/missjudygreer Judy’s Twitter - https://x.com/missjudygreer Judy’s Facebook - https://www.facebook.com/OfficialJudyGreer/ Movie Links: The Best Christmas Pageant Ever’s Instagram - https://www.instagram.com/bestchristmaspageantevermovie/ The Best Christmas Pageant Ever’s Facebook - https://www.facebook.com/BestChristmasPageantEverMovie The Best Christmas Pageant Ever’s Twitter - https://x.com/BCPEMovie Connect with Jen! Jen’s website - https://jenhatmaker.com/ Jen’s Instagram - https://instagram.com/jenhatmaker Jen’s Twitter - https://twitter.com/jenHatmaker/ Jen’s Facebook - https://facebook.com/jenhatmaker Jen’s YouTube - https://www.youtube.com/user/JenHatmaker The For the Love Podcast is presented by Audacy. To learn more about listener data and our privacy practices visit: https://www.audacyinc.com/privacy-policy Learn more about your ad choices. Visit https://podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Let’s be honest: there are seasons in life when things feel heavy and hard and the thought of breaking through the noise and negativity seems impossible. But with a little retooling of perspective, you can shift the conversation to one that is more productive and more hope-filled. In this episode, Timothy Shriver discusses his lifelong commitment to promoting dignity and unity through his work with the Special Olympics and the Dignity Index. He shares practical steps (and real-life examples gleaned from guests of his brand new Need A Lift? podcast) to demonstrate how you can turn a difficult conversation into an opportunity to form a connection. And if that’s not enough, Jen and Amy dig into some of their biggest fears – the ones they want to Bless and Release.  *** Thought-provoking Quotes: “I was being invited into a world in which the pursuit of making the world better, more just, more hopeful was a joyful pursuit. It wasn’t a burden. It wasn’t a responsibility of commitment you had to keep.” – Tim Shriver "We need people willing to take a chance – on each other, on trying again, on their communities." – Tim Shriver “Without losing my passion, without losing my commitment to the issues, I can still treat people with dignity.” – Tim Shriver "Contempt for each other is the problem and treating each other with dignity is the solution." – Tim Shriver “We can’t get legislation in most states or at the Federal level that embodies either of those majority opinions [border security and gun control] because the contempt on the extremes is so dominating the conversation that our political leaders find it in their best interest not to solve the problem or too scary to try.” – Tim Shriver Resources Mentioned in This Episode: The Special Olympics - https://www.specialolympics.org/ Fully Alive: Discovering What Matters Most by Tim Shriver - https://amzn.to/3NXAie9 The Dignity Index - https://www.dignity.us/ Tim’s Need A Lift Podcast - https://www.timothyshriver.com/projects/need-a-lift How Michael and Nicole Phelps Unlearned the Fear of Losing - https://apple.co/3NGKiYI A Special Olympics Gold Medalist on Authenticity and Play: Loretta Claiborne - https://apple.co/4hhBbLF Simon Sinek Believes that Idealism Belongs In the Workplace - https://apple.co/4dXmjj0 Taking Off Our Masks through Confession with Fr. Mike Schmitz - https://apple.co/48gAlLl Guest’s Links: Tim’s website - https://www.timothyshriver.com/ Tim’s Instagram - https://www.instagram.com/timothyshriver Tim’s Twitter - https://x.com/TimShriver Tim’s Facebook - https://www.facebook.com/timshriver/ Tim’s Need A Lift Podcast - https://www.timothyshriver.com/projects/need-a-lift Connect with Jen! Jen’s website - https://jenhatmaker.com/ Jen’s Instagram - https://instagram.com/jenhatmaker Jen’s Twitter - https://twitter.com/jenHatmaker/ Jen’s Facebook - https://facebook.com/jenhatmaker Jen’s YouTube - https://www.youtube.com/user/JenHatmaker The For the Love Podcast is presented by Audacy.  To learn more about listener data and our privacy practices visit: https://www.audacyinc.com/privacy-policy Learn more about your ad choices. Visit https://podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Jen and Amy are beyond thrilled to welcome none other than late-night legend Stephen Colbert and his amazing wife, Evie McGee Colbert, to the show! They’re dishing about their brand-new cookbook, Does This Taste Funny?—a project born right in the middle of pandemic life at home. Stephen and Evie share the hilarious backstory of how this all came together, dive into their kitchen quirks (spoiler: they don’t always see eye-to-eye in the kitchen), and their mutual love for Gullah cuisine from the heart of South Carolina’s Lowcountry. From the joy of cooking together to a classic metal spoon disaster, it’s the perfect blend of laughter, food, and a little bit of chaos. On today’s show:  Jen and Amy discuss their mixed feelings about high school reunions Jen offers some sage guidance to young girls about how not to accessorize in their senior photos Amy shows off in front of the Colberts with her plate of (gluten-free) Patti McGee’s Cheese Biscuits from their cookbook The group tries to unpack what made our children’s generation so sensitive about food expiration dates  Stephen shares the story about how he got radicalized by fancy butter  *** Thought-provoking Quotes: “Anytime somebody brings me my own cookbook – which is only a few years old at this point – and it’s dirty, filthy, greasy, I am thrilled. It’s the best compliment.” – Jen Hatmaker “My mom grew up in the heyday of processed foods. She didn’t have a lot of recipes that didn’t come from the back of a bottle of chili sauce or a packet of dried soup mix. So that’s where I started my culinary journey.” – Stephen Colbert “Those people who have cooking shows are amazing. Shout out to anyone who has to cook and talk in front of a camera.” – Evie Colbert Resources Mentioned in This Episode: Flavors: The Junior League of San Antonio (1978) - https://www.abebooks.com/9780961041601/Flavors-Junior-League-San-Antonio-0961041609/plp The Pioneer Woman Cooks: Recipes from an Accidental Country Girl by Ree Drummond (2009) - https://amzn.to/3Ue0eWd The Colbert Report - https://tv.apple.com/us/show/the-colbert-report/umc.cmc.3k1kkmfgd34hfnk8mc6p1uj01 "I Hope This Grief Stays With Me" - Andrew Garfield Fights Back Tears And Celebrates His Mom - YouTube - https://youtu.be/_u_TswLQ4ws?si=Ah2cbnW3-5AiyAlF The Daily Show - https://www.cc.com/fan-hub/the-daily-show The Late Show with Stephen Colbert - https://www.cbs.com/shows/the-late-show-with-stephen-colbert/ After Midnight - https://www.cbs.com/shows/after-midnight/ Montclair Film - https://montclairfilm.org/ Does This Taste Funny?: Recipes Our Family Loves - https://amzn.to/3YoJeix Feed These People: Slam-Dunk Recipes for Your Crew by Jen Hatmaker - https://amzn.to/3BNozvM Candied Hot Peppers from Tiny Pizza Kitchen in Brooklyn - https://www.tinypizzakitchen.com/buy-chilies Guest’s Links: Stephen’s Instagram - https://www.instagram.com/stephenathome/ Stephen’s Twitter - https://x.com/StephenAtHome The Late Show with Stephen Colbert Website - https://www.cbs.com/shows/the-late-show-with-stephen-colbert/ The Late Show with Stephen Colbert Instagram - https://www.instagram.com/colbertlateshow/ The Late Show with Stephen Colbert Twitter - https://x.com/ColbertLateShow The Late Show with Stephen Colbert Facebook - https://www.facebook.com/colbertlateshow/ The Late Show with Stephen Colbert YouTube - https://www.youtube.com/ColbertLateShow Connect with Jen! Jen’s website - https://jenhatmaker.com/ Jen’s Instagram - https://instagram.com/jenhatmaker Jen’s Twitter - https://twitter.com/jenHatmaker/ Jen’s Facebook - https://facebook.com/jenhatmaker Jen’s YouTube - https://www.youtube.com/user/JenHatmaker The For the Love Podcast is presented by Audacy. To learn more about listener data and our privacy practices visit: https://www.audacyinc.com/privacy-policy Learn more about your ad choices. Visit https://podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Friends, today’s episode is a powerhouse! We’ve got Sharon McMahon, aka “America’s Government Teacher,” bringing some serious wisdom from her new book, "The Small and the Mighty." Even the drafters of the Constitution worried about chaos, but they hoped for better things—and Sharon’s here to show us how twelve lesser-known heroes in American history made a huge impact on democracy. She’s drawing parallels to how we can still shape our future today, no matter how small we feel. Get ready to be inspired, y’all! Let’s dive in! In this hope-filled chat: Jen and Amy muse around which historical figures they would most like to meet and we get a glimpse of their preferred election night routines Sharon highlights the arc of her career from an award-winning yarn influencer known as the Yarnista, to a photographer, to “America’s Government Teacher” We discuss the need for reliable sources of factual information in a world filled to the brim with fake news and disinformation Sharon explains why we shouldn’t sit out during state and local elections We talk about a variety of ways to engage in democracy beyond just voting And Sharon fields questions from members of our audience. *** Thought-provoking Quotes: “We’re all tired, we’re exhausted from the endless partisanship and the fake news and the disinformation and vitriol.” – Jen Hatmaker “I started noticing that there were a lot of people that were just really confidently wrong on the internet, saying things like ‘the electoral college is a university you can graduate from’.”– Sharon McMahon “There’s a big list of people, especially women, who never, ever get the credit when it comes to the civil rights movement – it’s the attorneys, it's the Thurgood Marshalls, it’s the Freddie Grays,  it’s the Martin Luther Kings.,and, of course, what they did is incredibly important but… there are a lot of women with whom this hot air balloon does not get off the ground. There is no leaving the ground without the significant contributions of women.” – Sharon McMahon “We have to stop viewing this as a zero sum game in which our enemies must be defeated or destroyed. That’s an onramp to dictatorship.” – Sharon McMahon “There are many ways to be involved in democracy. It’s not just voting and running for office. There’s not one prescription for how to be involved. Do things you are good at and contribute in your own way. We can’t all be parade goers.” – Sharon McMahon “We tend to put all of our eggs in this basket of who will win the presidential election but who gets elected in your state matters so much. The things that really affect your daily life are defined at the state and local level.” – Sharon McMahon Resources Mentioned in This Episode: The Henry Fite House of Baltimore - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Henry_Fite_House The Angry Trout Cafe, Grand Mariais, MN - https://www.angrytroutcafe.com/ The Small and the Mighty: Twelve Unsung Americans Who Changed the Course of History, from the Founding to the Civil Rights Movement by Sharon McMahon - https://amzn.to/3NsoqjI Guest’s Links: Sharon’s website - https://sharonmcmahon.com/ Sharon’s Newsletter, The Preamble - https://thepreamble.com/ Sharon’s Governerds Book Club - https://sharonmcmahon.com/products/governerds-insider Sharon’s Here’s Where It Gets Interesting Podcast - https://sharonmcmahon.com/podcast Sharon’s Instagram - https://www.instagram.com/sharonsaysso Sharon’s Twitter - https://x.com/sharon_says_so Sharon’s Facebook - https://www.facebook.com/sharonsaysso/ Sharon’s YouTube - https://www.youtube.com/@sharonsaysso Connect with Jen! Jen’s website - https://jenhatmaker.com/ Jen’s Instagram - https://instagram.com/jenhatmaker Jen’s Twitter - https://twitter.com/jenHatmaker/ Jen’s Facebook - https://facebook.com/jenhatmaker Jen’s YouTube - https://www.youtube.com/user/JenHatmaker The For the Love Podcast is presented by Audacy. To learn more about listener data and our privacy practices visit: https://www.audacyinc.com/privacy-policy Learn more about your ad choices. Visit https://podcastchoices.com/adchoices

In this engaging conversation, actress, activist, and all-around beautiful human, Yvette Nicole Brown, gives us a lesson on the fundamental importance of joy, the blessings of caregiving, and the significance of community support. Through an exploration of Yvettes’ career, first in the music business, and now in the entertainment industry, she and Jen and Amy discuss the many challenges that face black women today while also talking about one of black women’s greatest superpowers – the sisterhood that exists among them. They lean into how white women can learn to harness that power in their relationships, too, and the things that can be done to support their sisters of color right now. Yvette also reflects on her personal life as a devoted caregiver, and dishes for a moment about the beauty of finding love in your late 50s. *** Thought-provoking Quotes: “I don’t know as a kid that I ever thought that I would be a star. I always felt that I would be impactful in people's lives in some way because of the way that I love people.” – Yvette Nicole Brown “I am still pinching myself. I’m Forrest Gump in the flesh – in real life – because I just say yes to things that feel right and God just takes me to the next opportunity to do the same.” – Yvette Nicole Brown “That’s why black women are always so close with each other because whenever you see a ‘sista’, you know her story, without knowing her story. That’s why we call each other ‘sista’, because we know what she’s been through. Same thing with black men. ‘Brotha’. ‘Sista’. We know what the other person has been through and we stand with each other and support each other. But here’s the thing, we stand with and support everybody else too. And that’s why we say ‘vote like black women, think like black women’. That’s not hubris. That’s not arrogance. That’s heart. That’s soul.” – Yvette Nicole Brown “When it comes to anything that comes up in the news, culture, current events, whatever’s going on, if I feel even a modicum of uncertainty about how to feel about it, I just look to the black women. It’s the correct reading of the room. The response is always for the greater good. It’s what’s good for culture, for people, our neighbors, progress, equality.” – Jen Hatmaker “Instead of me showing you my pain, I’m going to use my joy as my strength and I’m going to dance and laugh through this thing.” – Yvette Nicole Brown Resources Mentioned in This Episode: I Take My Coffee Black: Reflections on Tupac, Musical Theater, Faith, and Being Black in America by Tyler Merritt - https://amzn.to/3U6nMfN Yvette’s acting and producing credits - https://www.imdb.com/name/nm1304328/ Kamala Harris for President - https://kamalaharris.com/ How Black Women Organizers Broke Zoom to Raise $1.5 Million - Fortune.com  K-Pops by Anderson .Paak at Toronto International Film Festival - https://tiff.net/events/k-pops Frasier - https://www.paramountplus.com/shows/frasier-2023/ Among Us - https://www.innersloth.com/voice-cast-for-the-among-us-animated-series-round-1/ Donors Choose - https://www.donorschoose.org/ The Creative Coalition Commission on Caregiving - https://thecreativecoalition.org/caregiving/ Emily’s List Guest’s Links: Yvette’s website - http://www.actressyvettenicolebrown.com/ Yvette’s Instagram - https://www.instagram.com/yvettenicolebrown Yvette’s Twitter - https://x.com/ynb Yvette’s Facebook - https://www.facebook.com/YvetteNBrown/ Yvette’s Squeezed Docupodcast - https://lemonadamedia.com/show/squeezed/ Connect with Jen! Jen’s website - https://jenhatmaker.com/ Jen’s Instagram - https://instagram.com/jenhatmaker Jen’s Twitter - https://twitter.com/jenHatmaker/ Jen’s Facebook - https://facebook.com/jenhatmaker Jen’s YouTube - https://www.youtube.com/user/JenHatmaker The For the Love Podcast is presented by Audacy. To learn more about listener data and our privacy practices visit: https://www.audacyinc.com/privacy-policy Learn more about your ad choices. Visit https://podcastchoices.com/adchoices

This week Jen and Amy sit down with the charismatic and engaging Stanley Tucci, to discuss his new book, 'What I Ate in One Year', that explores the deep connections we can find amongst the food we eat, the memories we make, and the emotions we feel and how our cultural practices around food can provide fuel for us, not just in times of celebration, but can also provide us comfort in times of grief. Stanley reflects on how food plays a role in both joyous and difficult moments, emphasizing the importance of sharing meals with loved ones, hoping that readers will find comfort and connection through his work, especially in a time when we are all experiencing more loneliness and disconnection. *** Thought-provoking Quotes: "You're such a Renaissance man." – Jen Hatmaker "I like it so much more when we all eat together." – Stanley Tucci "Food is just a part of life, which means it's a part of death too." – Stanley Tucci “When somebody brings me bread, that’s my person. Let’s get married.” – Jen Hatmaker “Even if you’re in a really shitty place, even if the food is terrible, but you’re eating with people that you love, it’ll be a memorable meal.” – Stanley Tucci “I don’t want to eat a well done burger. I’d rather eat an extra side of fries.” – Jen Hatmaker “Eating outdoors makes things taste better. Why is that? I don’t know but the place is crucial…in a weird way. It can change the taste of things.” – Stanley Tucci “We think that in the moment we’re going to remember something forever but we don't. It just slips away. Even just writing your story down for you has meaning.” – Jen Hatmaker Resources Mentioned in This Episode: Stanley Tucci’s new book 'What I Ate in One Year' - https://amzn.to/484rxb2 Big Night (1996) - https://www.imdb.com/title/tt0115678/ CNN Show: Searching for Italy - https://www.cnn.com/shows/stanley-tucci-searching-for-italy Stanley Tucci makes a Negroni for his wife, Felicity - https://bit.ly/4h2L9QW The Devil Wears Prada (2006) - https://www.imdb.com/title/tt0458352/ Stanley Tucci’s film bio - https://imdb.to/3YgfeW2 Stanley Tucci’s theater bio - https://playbill.com/person/stanley-tucci-vault-0000019856 Taste: My Life Through Food by Stanley Tucci - https://amzn.to/4f08P6Y Guest’s Links: Stanley’s Facebook - https://www.facebook.com/StanleyTucci Stanley’s Instagram - https://www.instagram.com/stanleytucci/ Stanley’s TikTok - https://www.tiktok.com/@stanley.tucci Connect with Jen! Jen’s website - https://jenhatmaker.com/ To learn more about listener data and our privacy practices visit: https://www.audacyinc.com/privacy-policy Learn more about your ad choices. Visit https://podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Named a best podcast of 2023 by Vulture, Time, The Economist, & Vogue. No question too big, no question too small. On Search Engine, host PJ Vogt answers the kinds of questions you might ask the internet when you can't sleep. If you find the world bewildering, but also sometimes enjoy being bewildered by it, we're here for you. Edited by Sruthi Pinnamaneni. To learn more about listener data and our privacy practices visit: https://www.audacyinc.com/privacy-policy Learn more about your ad choices. Visit https://podcastchoices.com/adchoices

In this month’s Jen Hatmaker Book Club episode, we speak with the author of A Woman of Intelligence, Karin Tanabe. In this fascinating interview, we learn that Karin originally set out to write a book about WWII women code breakers, but ended up turning it into an ode to the struggles of women finding themselves during early motherhood and the imminent right they have to a future chosen for themselves. The story follows a woman in the 50’s who sets out on a spy adventure, departing wildly from her mundane life, and making difficult choices that come with choosing yourself over society’s whims. Jen and Karin personally and candidly reflect on the pressures of motherhood, the erasure of self that can come with parenting full time, and the history that brought us to where we are today. Some topic points include:  The fascinating pivot from Tanabe's original book pitch to the creation of "A Woman of Intelligence" Discussion of rarely-taught aspects of U.S. history, including government-funded childcare during WWII Tanabe’s approach to crafting complex characters, including the memorable mother-in-law The careful construction of the novel's open-ended finale Join Jen and Karin for an engaging conversation that will leave you eager to dive into "A Woman of Intelligence" and reflect on how far we've come – and how far we still have to go. * * * Resources & Books Mentioned in This Episode: A Woman of Intelligence by Karin Tanabe - https://bit.ly/47GdbxI The Sunset Crowd by Karin Tanabe - https://www.karintanabe.com/copy-of-the-list A Hundred Suns - https://www.karintanabe.com/a-hundred-suns Karin’s Booklist - https://www.karintanabe.com/books-w3tou Elizabeth Bentley - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Elizabeth_Bentley The Lanham Act of 1940 (Government-Subsidized Health Care) - https://bit.ly/3XS2Uen The Red Scare - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Red_Scare The Cliffs by J. Courtney Sullivan - https://bit.ly/4evbYLG Private Equity: A Memoir by Carrie Sun - https://bit.ly/3Bbgy3w Eyeliner by Zahra Hankir - https://bit.ly/4gDgdqC Guest’s Links: Karin’s Website: https://www.karintanabe.com/ Karin’s Twitter: https://www.twitter.com/karintanabe Karin’s Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/karintanabe Karin’s Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/authorkarintanabe Connect with Jen! Jen’s website - https://jenhatmaker.com/ Jen’s Instagram - https://instagram.com/jenhatmaker Jen’s Twitter - https://twitter.com/jenHatmaker/ Jen’s Facebook - https://facebook.com/jenhatmaker Jen’s YouTube - https://www.youtube.com/user/JenHatmaker The For the Love Podcast is a production of Four Eyes Media, presented by Audacy.  Four Eyes Media: https://www.iiiimedia.com/ To learn more about listener data and our privacy practices visit: https://www.audacyinc.com/privacy-policy Learn more about your ad choices. Visit https://podcastchoices.com/adchoices

This week Jen and Amy dive deep into the mind of bestselling author and one of the most influential thinkers of the 2000’s, Malcolm Gladwell. Exploring the intriguing concepts behind his latest book, The Revenge of the Tipping Point, the conversation ebbs and flows through Malcolm's ability to turn dense data into compelling narratives, weaving stories that captivate readers in unexpected ways. Jen and Amy key into Malcolm's knack for viewing problems from unique angles, a skill that sets him apart in academic and popular discourse.  Throughout the chat, Malcolm reveals how his perspectives have evolved over the last 25 years and how the nuances of today's world demand a fresh interpretation of the ideas that he first introduced. Their discussion underscores the blend of rigorous analysis and storytelling magic that defines Malcolm's work and leaves a lasting impact on listeners eager to engage with the pressing questions of our time. Malcolm gives us insight into all manner of cultural phenomena, including:  A definition of “overstories” and how they can refine and deepen our understanding of the spread of customs, mores, and practices The advent of “superspreaders:” those very few people who have a large amount of influence, a situation which has shifted with the onset of social media Snippets of fascinating social observations, illustrated in stories from his book including a look at the opioid epidemic, the growing mental health issues of students, and the power of television shows like “Will & Grace,” toward creating massive cultural shifts  * * * Thought-Provoking Quotes: “The overstory that is over our heads right now that we're not thinking about is one that says the most important way to understand ourselves and our differences from others is to look through the lens of politics. I think political ideology has somehow kind of become central in a way that it wasn't 25 years ago. That's a kind of weird thing going on right now that we're sort of not paying attention to. I'm hopeful that will shift. I would much rather people find themselves using other categories. Because there are other categories that are far more meaningful.” - Malcolm Gladwell "If you look at platforms like Twitter or TikTok, you'll see that a very small number of people have a massive amount of reach. As we examine how we're influenced, it's clear that the sources and individuals projecting influence in the world are getting smaller and smaller — which is weird, because we initially thought the opposite was happening." - Malcolm Gladwell Resources Mentioned in This Episode: What’s Going On by Marvin Gaye - https://bit.ly/3TLRne5 Sunday Bloody Sunday by U2 - https://bit.ly/4gQTdEC Losing My Religion by R.E.M - https://open.spotify.com/track/31AOj9sFz2gM0O3hMARRBx Malcolm’s Book List - https://www.gladwellbooks.com/landing-page/malcolm-gladwell-books/ Revenge of the Tipping Point by Malcolm Gladwell - https://bit.ly/3XYc7BN Anna Muller - https://umdearborn.edu/people-um-dearborn/anna-muller Seth Robertson - https://philosophy.fas.harvard.edu/people/seth-robertson Will and Grace - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Will_%26_Grace Guest’s Links: Malcolm’s Website - https://www.gladwellbooks.com/ Malcolm’s Twitter - https://twitter.com/gladwell Malcolm’s Facebook - https://www.facebook.com/malcolmgladwellbooks/ Malcolm’s Instagram - https://www.instagram.com/malcolmgladwell/ Connect with Jen! Jen’s website - https://jenhatmaker.com/ Jen’s Instagram - https://instagram.com/jenhatmaker Jen’s Twitter - https://twitter.com/jenHatmaker/ Jen’s Facebook - https://facebook.com/jenhatmaker Jen’s YouTube - https://www.youtube.com/user/JenHatmaker The For the Love Podcast is presented by Audacy.  To learn more about listener data and our privacy practices visit: https://www.audacyinc.com/privacy-policy Learn more about your ad choices. Visit https://podcastchoices.com/adchoices

This week, step into the studio (and kitchen!) with Jen and Amy as they have an intimate and insightful conversation with the iconic Ina Garten, a true pioneer in the culinary world who has shaped the way we cook at home. As they delve into Ina's groundbreaking career, from the beloved Barefoot Contessa specialty food shop to the 28 seasons of her cherished TV show, you'll discover the heart and humor behind Ina's success. Amidst laughter and heartwarming tales, the conversation takes a deeper turn as Ina opens up about her new memoir, “Be Ready When the Luck Happens,” providing candid insights into her life, including her early days with husband Jeffrey and the triumphs and challenges that have defined her journey.  Topics include:  Being open to unexpected opportunities can lead to fulfilling paths. The importance of maintaining a sense of humor and lightheartedness on the journey to success and connection. Behind the scenes of Ina’s relationship with her husband of 56 years, Jeffrey, where she underscores the value of strong support systems and partnerships in achieving balance and joy. Whether you're a longtime fan or new to Ina's world, this episode offers a personal glimpse into the life of a culinary legend who continues to inspire us all. PLUS don’t miss Jen and Amy’s discussion about foods they ate as kids that they wouldn’t dare touch now, and the cooking shows that first caught their attention as young wives and moms. * * * Thought-Provoking Quotes: “I think that we all need one person and we don't need a lot of people, just need one person who really believes in us. And fortunately for me, it was Jeffrey…He always made me feel like I was smart and I could accomplish anything I wanted to do with no reservations, no judgment. And it doesn't have to be a spouse. It can be a sister. It can be a teacher. It can be a parent. We all need to find that one person who really believes in us. At least that's my experience.” - Ina Garten “I think one of the things that we're always taught when we're young is; what are you going to be when you grow up? And you're not going to be one thing anymore. You're going to do something and it's going to lead to something else, and then it's going to lead to something else. If you decide when you're young what you're going to be and that's it, you're never going to learn anything. I think it's the twists and turns that are really interesting.” - Ina Garten Resources Mentioned in This Episode: Feed These People by Jen Hatmaker - https://shop.jenhatmaker.com/products/ftp-book Be My Guest with Ina Garten - https://bit.ly/3TvsfIx Be Ready When Luck Happens: A Memoir by Ina Garten - https://bit.ly/3ZndFqh Strapless: John Singer Sargent and the Fall of Madame X by Deborah Davis - https://bit.ly/3XPOo76 Party of the Century: The Fabulous Story of Truman Capote and His Black and White Ball by Deborah Davis - https://bit.ly/4gvQ6l6 The Oprah Winfrey Show: Reflections on an American Legacy - https://bit.ly/47r1QS1 Tina Turner: My Love Story - https://bit.ly/3Xu76j1 Ina Garten on 60 Minutes - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=REyYFeqEKZg An Unmarried Woman - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/An_Unmarried_Woman Ina’s Interview with John Grisham - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CQ9jYxkbm6s Guest’s Links: Barefoot Contessa (Ina’s Website) - https://barefootcontessa.com/ Ina’s Facebook - https://www.facebook.com/InaGarten Ina’s YouTube - https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCOlnd-2UlwJuWcnfEKt28yg Ina’s Pinterest - https://br.pinterest.com/inaofficial/ Ina’s Instagram - https://www.instagram.com/inagarten/ Connect with Jen! Jen’s website - https://jenhatmaker.com/ Jen’s Instagram - https://instagram.com/jenhatmaker Jen’s Twitter - https://twitter.com/jenHatmaker/ Jen’s Facebook - https://facebook.com/jenhatmaker Jen’s YouTube - https://www.youtube.com/user/JenHatmaker The For the Love Podcast is a production of Four Eyes Media, presented by Audacy.  Four Eyes Media: https://www.iiiimedia.com/ To learn more about listener data and our privacy practices visit: https://www.audacyinc.com/privacy-policy Learn more about your ad choices. Visit https://podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Leanne Morgan was going to quit her career as a stand up comic and start a hardware store (with a cheese wheel, no less!) before she had her major break in comedy. Making the decision to invest in herself one last time opened the doors to an incredible season and newfound success in the comedy world. Jen, Amy, and Leanne get candid when talking about what it means to be the best version of themselves in their second act of life, and when success comes later, why it can be better than having all your dreams come true at once.  Topics discussed include: Behind the scenes of Leanne’s viral success at 51 Why being yourself is always the best answer to any problem How handling criticism at their ages is so much easier to deal with The cornbread drama — do you add sugar or not? Also; don’t miss Jen and Amy’s discussions before the interview on Taylor Swift drama and FOMO! * * * Thought-Provoking Quotes: "Use humor to get through hard times. I think it's the best thing that can ever happen to anybody is to be able to laugh through the bad times and to forgive themselves." - Leanne Morgan "I want [women] to know it is never too late...you're the best you've ever been. You're the smartest you've ever been. It is the best time in your life. It is the best time to start a business. It is the best time to go back to school. I just want women to know that." - Leanne Morgan Resources Mentioned in This Episode: What in the World? by Leanne Morgan - https://www.leannemorgan.com/book Quiet by Susan Cain - https://susancain.net/book/quiet/ For the Love Podcast Episode ft. Jim Gaffigan - https://bit.ly/3Ximuij Leanne’s Interview with Hallerin Hilton Hill - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=14xdJyhnLuc You’re Cordially Invited - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=14xdJyhnLuc Leanne Morgan at the Grand Ole Opry - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GFYMFOok5s4 Guest’s Links: Leanne’s Website - https://www.leannemorgan.com/ Leanne’s Twitter - https://twitter.com/leannecomedy Leanne’s Facebook - https://www.facebook.com/leannemorgancomedy Leanne’s Instagram - https://www.instagram.com/leannemorgancomedy Connect with Jen! Jen’s website - https://jenhatmaker.com/ Jen’s Instagram - https://instagram.com/jenhatmaker Jen’s Twitter - https://twitter.com/jenHatmaker/ Jen’s Facebook - https://facebook.com/jenhatmaker Jen’s YouTube - https://www.youtube.com/user/JenHatmaker The For the Love Podcast is a production of Four Eyes Media, presented by Audacy.  Four Eyes Media: https://www.iiiimedia.com/ To learn more about listener data and our privacy practices visit: https://www.audacyinc.com/privacy-policy Learn more about your ad choices. Visit https://podcastchoices.com/adchoices

At the height of her worldly and academic success garnering three Harvard degrees, Martha Beck received life altering news, and discovered that maybe she didn’t know everything. This set off a lifetime of pursuing ways to soothe her nervous system from anxiety and find freedom in a new purpose. In a world where anxiety seems to be spiraling out of control, Martha offers a revolutionary approach to understanding and befriending anxiety. Drawing from cutting-edge neuroscience and her years of experience coaching people through what she calls the “Change Cycle,” Martha shares: The four phases of the “Change Cycle” Why anxiety is on the rise and how it's affecting us all The unexpected connection between anxiety and creativity How to access your own creative genius You’re also not going to want to miss Jen and Amy’s discussions before the interview on embracing the mantra “it’s never too late” and Jen’s incurable attachment to an ancient email address. * * * Thought-Provoking Quotes: "Hold it [stability] very lightly. Let it go. Because everything is always moving and changing." - Dr. Martha Beck "If you try to speed yourself through the process of letting go, of grieving your losses, of at least giving a really deep, profound, heartfelt farewell to the life you used to have — if you don't go through that process, nothing good is going to come of it. You're going to end up in lifelong therapy." Dr. Martha Beck “There is a sensation deeper than the mind, more profound than anything we could think, and in some ways, far more powerful than emotion. It is a kind of stillness, a connection. I believe that this is what consciousness is. It behaves this way when it is neither us nor a substance. It is a vibrantly alive stillness that pervades the universe, however many there are. And we are part of it; we are indistinguishable from it.” - Dr. Martha Beck "The first step to getting out of anxiety is to recognize that an anxious brain is not a broken machine--it's a frightened animal." - Dr. Martha Beck “The moment you move into a place of compassion, you use your brain very differently than when you’re in an anxiety spiral. This shift frees you to pull your attention away from the anxiety and begin being loving with yourself.” - Dr. Martha Beck "You were born a creative genius. Your mind is so capable of solving the problems that make you anxious, but only if you free that genius. And anxiety keeps it caged." - Dr. Martha Beck Resources Mentioned in This Episode: Dr. Becks Monthly O Magazine Column - https://www.oprah.com/spirit/martha-beck/all Bewildered Podcast with Dr. Martha Beck & Rowan Mangan - https://bit.ly/3zkyic2 The Gathering Room Podcast with Dr. Martha Beck - https://bit.ly/3XquFsV The Way of Integrity Finding the Path to Your True Self - https://bit.ly/3ziwm3F Nisargadatta Maharaj - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nisargadatta_Maharaj NASA’s Creative Genius Study - https://bit.ly/4dSoFAl Wildr App - https://apps.apple.com/my/app/wildr/id1604130204 Guest’s Links: Dr. Beck's Website: https://marthabeck.com Dr. Beck's Wayfinder Life Coach Training: https://marthabeck.com/life-coach-training/ Dr. Beck's Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/themarthabeck/ Dr. Beck's upcoming book: https://marthabeck.com/beyond-anxiety/ Courses & Retreats with Dr. Beck: https://marthabeck.com/courses-training/ Connect with Jen! Jen’s website - https://jenhatmaker.com/ Jen’s Instagram - https://instagram.com/jenhatmaker Jen’s Twitter - https://twitter.com/jenHatmaker/ Jen’s Facebook - https://facebook.com/jenhatmaker Jen’s YouTube - https://www.youtube.com/user/JenHatmaker?sub_confirmation=1 The For the Love Podcast is a production of Four Eyes Media, presented by Audacy.  Four Eyes Media: https://www.iiiimedia.com/ To learn more about listener data and our privacy practices visit: https://www.audacyinc.com/privacy-policy Learn more about your ad choices. Visit https://podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Jen and New York Times best-selling author, Phaedra Patrick, discuss “The Little Italian Hotel” and how finding a way through heartache can look wildly different from one person to the next.  Phaedra was a self-taught writer who almost gave up on her dream before she had a breakthrough with her runaway hit, “The Curious Charms of Arthur Pepper.” In her darkest moments she always reminds herself, “When I don’t feel confident, I just tell myself that I can always feel determined instead.” With that boldness in mind, she writes novels to make people feel good about themselves and want to connect with others.  Particularly compelling moments between Jen and Phaedra include: Phaedra’s incredible story of teaching herself to write and dealing with rejection in the beginning of her career The author's insights on the challenges women face on putting themselves first Phaedra’s reasoning on the open ending of the book Why connecting with others in warm and gentle spaces can lead to healing * * * Thought-Provoking Quotes: “When I don't feel confident, I just tell myself that I can always feel determined instead.” - Phaedra Patrick Resources and Books Mentioned in This Episode: The Little Italian Hotel by Phaedra Patrick - https://bit.ly/4fJ92fJ The Year of What If by Phaedra Patrick - https://bit.ly/4drmseX Rise and Shine, Benedict Stone by Phaedra Patrick - https://bit.ly/3X3ugOr The Curious Charms Of Arthur Pepper by Phaedra Patrick - https://bit.ly/3WIQWSw Garden Spells by Sarah Addison Allen - https://bit.ly/3YKUsyA The Authenticity Project by Clare Pooley - https://bit.ly/4fC6XT7 The Love of My After Life by Kirsty Greenwood - https://bit.ly/46SffSQ Phaedra’s Writing Tips - https://www.phaedra-patrick.com/writing-tips Guest’s Links: Phaedra’s Website - https://www.phaedra-patrick.com/ Phaedra’s Instagram - http://instagram.com/phaedrapatrick Phaedra’s Twitter - http://twitter.com/phaedrapatrick Phaedra’s Facebook - http://facebook.com/phaedrapatrick Connect with Jen! Jen’s website - https://jenhatmaker.com/ Jen’s Instagram - https://instagram.com/jenhatmaker Jen’s Twitter - https://twitter.com/jenHatmaker/ Jen’s Facebook - https://facebook.com/jenhatmaker Jen’s YouTube - https://www.youtube.com/user/JenHatmaker The For the Love Podcast is a production of Four Eyes Media, presented by Audacy.  Four Eyes Media: https://www.iiiimedia.com/ To learn more about listener data and our privacy practices visit: https://www.audacyinc.com/privacy-policy Learn more about your ad choices. Visit https://podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Have you ever met someone who’s excited about menopause? It might seem like a rare breed, but isn’t it time we reconsider our relationship with aging? While society often tells us that 50 should look like 30, the reality is that growing older is a badge of honor—even if it comes with its own set of quirks. Menopause, instead of being a dreaded foe, is more like an old friend that invites us to a new chapter filled with wisdom, laughter, and some hilariously unpredictable moments.  Rather than shying away from this natural transition, Cheryl Bridges Johns encourages us to lean into it, celebrating the changes and uncovering the vibrant selves we’ve always been. Through her insightful book, “Seven Transforming Gifts of Menopause,” she illuminates the idea that this phase is an opportunity for rediscovery—like uncovering a hidden treasure chest on a stormy day. As we navigate these waters together, it's easier to see that aging is not the end; it’s merely the beginning of a bravely authentic and empowered life. PLUS an all new episode intro from Amy and Jen who get into a Rant & Rave segment about the joys of permimenopause and menopause that you won’t want to miss. * * * Thought-Provoking Quotes: “Women are allowed to age but we are not allowed to mature.” - Cheryl Bridges Johns “We're the daughters of the Silent Generation but our daughters don't have to be.” - Cheryl Bridges Johns “Menopause is a gift to revisit. What did you let go, what did you repress? The uncovering of menopause is like a storm that comes in and you realize there’s a ship where you couldn’t see it before. It was hidden and the storm became a clearing, an uncovering.” - Cheryl Bridges Johns Resources Mentioned in This Episode: The Silent Passage - Gail Sheehy - https://bit.ly/4dTE1Ve  How to Survive a Shipwreck: Help Is on the Way and Love is Already Here - Jonathan Martin - https://bit.ly/4gaB5oL  The Wisdom of Menopause: Creating Physical and Emotional Health During Change - Christiane Northrup - https://bit.ly/3TifroB  Jen’s Blog - What’s Saving My Life Right Now: Perimenopause Edition - https://shop.jenhatmaker.com/pages/perimenopause-survival-guide Guest’s Links: Cheryl's Website - https://cherylbjohns.com  Cheryl's Twitter - https://twitter.com/cb_johns  Connect with Jen! Jen’s website - https://jenhatmaker.com/ Jen’s Instagram - https://instagram.com/jenhatmaker Jen’s Twitter - https://twitter.com/jenHatmaker/ Jen’s Facebook - https://facebook.com/jenhatmaker Jen’s YouTube - https://www.youtube.com/user/JenHatmaker The For the Love Podcast is a production of Four Eyes Media, presented by Audacy.  Four Eyes Media: https://www.iiiimedia.com/ To learn more about listener data and our privacy practices visit: https://www.audacyinc.com/privacy-policy Learn more about your ad choices. Visit https://podcastchoices.com/adchoices

It’s election season, and it’s been an interesting ride to this cycle’s moment of truth! Jen and Amy dive deep into the heart of the upcoming 2024 election with the insightful women from Pantsuit Politics–Sarah Stewart Holland and Beth Silvers. The conversation centers around the distinct dynamics shaping this election, along with insight as to why it’s vastly different from 2016; sparking a thought-provoking dialogue about the evolving political landscape.  With Vice President Kamala Harris potentially on the brink of breaking barriers as our first female president, the discussion also touches on the hopes and challenges ahead. Sarah and Beth were participants at the Democratic National Convention in August, and they share what that experience was like, and how it informed their views of the current political terrain. As we look to a potentially historic outcome, Beth and Sarah share practical ways we can engage in the process and build community as we navigate this pivotal moment together. You also won’t want to miss a new GenXcellence segment where Jen and Amy reminisce about their first voting experiences.  * * * Thought-Provoking Quotes: “Humans rising to the moment; that just never gets old to me. That's what politics can really be--including politicians who I know get a really bad rap. But watching them come into a moment they couldn't have expected, watching history show up on their doorsteps and go, all right, let's do it. I think it's just been so exhilarating”. - Sarah Stewart Holland “I could talk all day about all the things that Vice President Harris has done that no one talks about. I have been on the train for years that Biden needed to be a one term president, and that she was an excellent successor to him. And I think it's played out in a really strange way that presents some challenges, but also some opportunities for her. I am thrilled that America is finally getting to have a real introduction to her.” - Beth Silvers “Good governance needs people advocating for really different approaches to legislation, to policy, to issues, to messaging.” - Beth Silvers Resources Mentioned in This Episode: Project 2025 - https://bit.ly/3XqR2jt New York Times Article about Jelly Roll - https://bit.ly/3MrFrKv I Think Your’re Wrong (But I'm Listening) by Sarah Stewart Holland & Beth Silvers - https://www.amazon.com/Think-Youre-Wrong-Listening-Conversations/dp/1400208416 Now What? By Sarah Stewart Holland & Beth Silvers - https://bit.ly/4cOXV2b Guest’s Links: Pantsuit Politics Website - https://www.pantsuitpoliticsshow.com/ Pantsuit Politics Instagram - https://www.instagram.com/pantsuitpolitics/ Pantsuit Politics Facebook - https://www.facebook.com/pantsuitpolitics/ Pantsuit Politics Twitter - https://bit.ly/3Xsx32H Pantsuit Politics Substack - https://substack.com/@pantsuitpolitics Connect with Jen! Jen’s website - https://jenhatmaker.com/ Jen’s Instagram - https://instagram.com/jenhatmaker Jen’s Twitter - https://twitter.com/jenHatmaker/ Jen’s Facebook - https://facebook.com/jenhatmaker Jen’s YouTube - https://www.youtube.com/user/JenHatmaker The For the Love Podcast is a production of Four Eyes Media, presented by Audacy.  Four Eyes Media: https://www.iiiimedia.com/ To learn more about listener data and our privacy practices visit: https://www.audacyinc.com/privacy-policy Learn more about your ad choices. Visit https://podcastchoices.com/adchoices

It’s a brand new season of the show and we are thrilled to have Amy Hardin, Jen’s longtime friend, join us on the podcast for a whole new adventure in laughing at ourselves and learning from our incredible guests.  The Lazy Genius herself, Kendra Adachi, joins Jen and Amy today to challenge our culture's obsession with productivity and time management. Kendra offers a revolutionary perspective: the problem isn't you — it's the capitalistic, patriarchal culture we've all been raised in. Kendra unpacks why traditional productivity advice often fails women and shares a more compassionate approach for managing busy lives.  Whether you're drowning in laundry, juggling work and family, or simply craving a kinder way to approach your days, this conversation will leave you feeling seen, encouraged, and equipped with practical strategies. Discover how to: Shift your mindset from pursuing 'greatness' to embracing contentment Take small, sustainable steps instead of attempting drastic overhauls Adapt your systems to fit your unique life and needs Find freedom from rigid to-do lists and unrealistic expectations Don't miss Kendra's sneak peek into her upcoming book 'The Plan' - it just might change your life! * * * Thought-Provoking Quotes: "I thought I just had to try harder or give up. And those are not the only two options, everybody. There's a wide middle between ‘try hard’ and ‘give up.’ And so that's when I pivoted my online writing to this space to the Lazy Genius Ecosystem, as you called it, which is, 'let's be a genius about the things that matter and lazy about the things that don't. And everyone gets to choose what those things are.'" - Kendra Adachi "I think that we forget that the paradigm that we all live under in a Western, capitalistic, patriarchal society is not one that supports what I'm talking about in many ways. And so, it's hard to do. It's very, very hard because the waters that we live in really do not support this kind of idea. So the problem is not you is what I'm saying. The problem is not you." - Kendra Adachi "Your to-do list is not the boss of you. It's a tool." - Kendra Adachi “93% of time management productivity books are written by men.” - Kendra Adachi Resources Mentioned in This Episode: Feed These People by Jen Hatmaker - https://shop.jenhatmaker.com/products/ftp-book The Lazy Genius Podcast - https://bit.ly/4drs4WB The Lazy Genius Way - https://www.thelazygeniuscollective.com/way For the Love Podcast ft. Kendra Adachi - https://bit.ly/3WUZdD7 The Plan by Kendra Adachi - https://www.thelazygeniuscollective.com/theplan For the Love Podcast ft. Emily P. Freeman - https://bit.ly/4cGSRNr Guest’s Links Website - https://www.thelazygeniuscollective.com/ Instagram - https://www.instagram.com/thelazygenius/ Facebook - https://www.facebook.com/groups/2548803345149849 Twitter - https://twitter.com/lazykendra Connect with Jen! Jen’s website - https://jenhatmaker.com/ Jen’s Instagram - https://instagram.com/jenhatmaker Jen’s Twitter - https://twitter.com/jenHatmaker/ Jen’s Facebook - https://facebook.com/jenhatmaker Jen’s YouTube - https://www.youtube.com/user/JenHatmaker The For the Love Podcast is a production of Four Eyes Media, presented by Audacy.  Four Eyes Media: https://www.iiiimedia.com/ To learn more about listener data and our privacy practices visit: https://www.audacyinc.com/privacy-policy Learn more about your ad choices. Visit https://podcastchoices.com/adchoices

It’s an exciting time here at the For the Love Podcast and we are excited to share a brand new season of the show, now featuring Jen’s longtime friend, Amy Hardin! Amy’s been popping into the show all summer, and we’re thrilled to welcome her with an official seat across from Jen for all our upcoming episodes!   And what better way to get to know Amy and Jen together all over again than to bring on an Enneagram personality typing expert to give the nod to their beautiful partnership. Ian Cron, author, podcaster and Enneagram expert weighs in on Jen and Amy’s longtime friendship and gives a peek into how he thinks they will mesh as a podcast duo (tip of the hat to any friendships that are a “three” and “six” combo out there!). They also spend a little time talking about the Enneagram types of their partners—highlighting the dynamics in how different types complement (and sometimes clash with) each other.  If you’re not familiar with the Enneagram, you’re going to be fascinated, and if you are, you’ll love hearing Ian’s incredible insight into many of the 9 personality types. PLUS, Ian for the very first time on any podcast, talks about his brand new book “The Fix: How the Twelve Steps Offer a Surprising Path of Transformation for the Well-Adjusted, the Down-and-Out, and Everyone In Between.” * * * Thought-Provoking Quotes: “What I love about Enneagram sixes is; you are practical, loyal, and very witty—in a wry, wonderful way. Your humor comes out as being very self-deprecating. Then sometimes, when you're on autopilot, you default to a lot of questioning and self-doubting, and sometimes you'll be seen as being skeptical or anxious.” - Ian Morgan Cron “What determines the health of a relationship has to do with how much self-awareness each of the two people in it have. So two types of people of any Enneagram type or combination can be great with each other to the degree that they're self-aware and they're doing their own personal work.” - Ian Morgan Cron “I think the friendship exchange between an Enneagram three and a six is really interesting and beautiful. The three’s ambition and drive are tempered by the six’s caution and loyalty.” - Ian Morgan Cron “People ask me all the time; are there two Enneagram types that really go better together than other types? I'm like--it's all about how self-aware you are. Any two types can do great together to the degree they're doing their work and sharing the journey of self-discovery.” - Ian Morgan Cron Resources Mentioned in This Episode: For the Love of The Enneagram - https://jenhatmaker.com/podcasts/series-27/ For the Love Episode on Enneagram Fours ft. Ian Cron - https://bit.ly/3Aa6oPU Jen Hatmaker Book Club Podcast Episode ft. Hillary McBride - https://bit.ly/3AvW4lL For the Love Encore Episode ft. Bessel van Der Kolk - https://bit.ly/3YzyRcg The Story of You by Ian Cron - https://bit.ly/46FWbam The Fix It by Ian Cron - https://bit.ly/3WzFYyK The Road Back to You by Ian Cron - https://bit.ly/4dejnPf The Last Blockbuster - https://www.imdb.com/title/tt8704802/ Find out your Enneagram type here: https://www.enneagraminstitute.com/ Typology with Ian Morgan Cron - https://www.typologypodcast.com/ Guest’s Links: Ian's Website - https://ianmorgancron.com/ Ian's Facebook - https://www.facebook.com/IanMorganCron/ Ian's Twitter - https://twitter.com/ianmorgancron?lang=en Ian's LinkedIn - https://www.linkedin.com/in/ianmorgancron Ian's Instagram - https://www.instagram.com/ianmorgancron/?hl=en Connect with Jen! Jen’s website - https://jenhatmaker.com/ Jen’s Instagram - https://instagram.com/jenhatmaker Jen’s Twitter - https://twitter.com/jenHatmaker/ Jen’s Facebook - https://facebook.com/jenhatmaker Jen’s YouTube - https://www.youtube.com/user/JenHatmaker?sub_confirmation=1 The For the Love Podcast is a production of Four Eyes Media, presented by Audacy.  Four Eyes Media: https://www.iiiimedia.com/ To learn more about listener data and our privacy practices visit: https://www.audacyinc.com/privacy-policy Learn more about your ad choices. Visit https://podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Jen and her longtime friend, Amy Hardin, return together to introduce this previous interview with Jennifer Garner that was one of For the Love’s top downloaded episodes of all time. Jen and Amy chat about their favorite Jennifer Garner projects and how impressed they are with her activism and philanthropic work. In the interview itself, Jennifer Garner shares how she navigates life as a mom, an entrepreneur, and an actress. So many of us have followed Jen's career through TV & film, but she takes us back to the early days when she fell in love with theater, doing auditions in New York while she slept on the floor of a friend’s home who offered a place to lay her head. We also find out that her first job was working with Melissa Gilbert (Laura Ingalls of Little House on the Prairie fame) and how that eventually led to working with J.J. Abrams in Felicity, who then cast her in her breakout role as the star of Alias. The two Jens discuss everything from what it’s like to raise kids as they transition from littles to bigs and what eventually drove Jen’s pursuits outside of Hollywood to co-found Once Upon a Farm and become involved with Save the Children.  * * * Thought-Provoking Quotes: “Change is hard. I mean, I have a tendency to, or I did when I was younger, where I leapt into living in New York before I thought about living in New York. And then I leapt into moving to LA, and then had to absorb that, wait a minute, I just left this all. That was a big transition for me, because I didn't realize I had built a community for myself in New York.” - Jennifer Garner     “I hunted down what organization was really doing work in rural America and Save the Children was all over the world. Our whole global goal is to help kids where no one wants to go and where no one's helping them. So we are in Afghanistan, we're always in the middle of the Ebola crisis, we're always in the middle of helping kids as they're leaving Syria. And we're in those refugee camps and we're in disasters, and we are hand in hand with the Red Cross, and just one of the leading organizations helping kids in the whole world. And in the US, the work is so beautiful. And it's almost unknown, because we're in the little tucked away corners.” - Jennifer Garner   “I think food insecurity and poverty in America, it's a little bit invisible, because we want it to be. We choose what we look at. And so, it is, in some ways, easier to look across the globe and see it somewhere else in a country that is so different than ours or with such obvious distinctions. But the food insecurity in America is high, high, high.” - Jen Hatmaker  “You know what I love? I love any community. I just like to be in a community.” - Jennifer Garner   “What is saving my life right now? I mean, I can’t imagine it ever being anything other than girlfriends.” - Jennifer Garner  Resources Mentioned in This Episode: Once Upon a Farm - https://onceuponafarmorganics.com/pages/jens-farm Save the Children - https://bit.ly/4dnOuHM 13 Going on 30 - https://www.imdb.com/title/tt0337563/ The Last Thing He Told Me - https://bit.ly/4d9wEbK Love, Simon - https://www.imdb.com/title/tt5164432/ Guest’s Links: Jennifer’s Instagram - https://www.instagram.com/jennifer.garner/?hl=en Jennifer’s Twitter - https://twitter.com/thejengarner?lang=en Jennifer’s Facebook - https://www.facebook.com/JenniferGarner/ Connect with Jen! Jen’s website - https://jenhatmaker.com/ Jen’s Instagram - https://instagram.com/jenhatmaker Jen’s Twitter - https://twitter.com/jenHatmaker/ Jen’s Facebook - https://facebook.com/jenhatmaker Jen’s YouTube - https://www.youtube.com/user/JenHatmaker?sub_confirmation=1 The For the Love Podcast is a production of Four Eyes Media, presented by Audacy.  Four Eyes Media: https://www.iiiimedia.com/ To learn more about listener data and our privacy practices visit: https://www.audacyinc.com/privacy-policy Learn more about your ad choices. Visit https://podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Jen and her longtime friend, Amy Hardin, are back together to introduce this interview with Kate Bowler that originally aired as a premium channel episode. They examine the ways a “toxic positivity” mindset and a misguided understanding of “blessings” can harm relationships and culture. If you’ve ever felt your soul drag to the ground after reading a #blessed post on Instagram, there’s relief for you here. Kate Bowler shows us a gentler way to look at the concept of blessings, so that someone else’s #blessing doesn’t feel like our #fail.  In the interview, Jen and Kate talk about:  A brief history of the prosperity gospel in America and the origins of toxic positivity The original definition of “blessing” from the Bible The absurdity of life and how tragedy can feel when watching other people’s happiness What the point of praying is Kate tries out being a late night radio DJ and shares a blessing she wrote specifically for our podcast * * * Thought-Provoking Quotes: “[Toxic positivity] is the overemphasis, the bright siding of truth to the point where you can't be honest. You can't really say what's going on.” - Kate Bowler “There is frankly almost no relationship between people's lives working out and whether they are fundamentally good and lovable by God among other people, period.” - Kate Bowler  “I was in a waiting room the other day looking over at two people absolutely cracking each other up over an oxygen machine. And I felt the flicker of the tragic comedy of the world, and I was like, ‘Yep, that is a little blessing.’” - Kate Bowler “Such a weird moment when your life is in tatters and then you just see somebody walking their dog. You're like, ‘What are you doing? How is that happening? Why are you laughing?’” - Jen Hatmaker “The more we take what we think we know, and then we just rearrange it a bit, it offers us a chance to see something.” - Kate Bowler Resources Mentioned in This Episode: Blessed: A History of the American Prosperity Gospel by Kate Bowler - https://bit.ly/46ynpPX The Lives We Actually Have, 100 Blessings for Imperfect Days by Kate Bowler - https://bit.ly/4ftQOie Everything Happens for a Reason and Other Lies I've Loved by Kate Bowler -  https://bit.ly/46DRopS For the Love episode with Maggie Smith - https://bit.ly/4fwTfR4 Have a Beautiful Terrible Day by Kate Bowler - https://bit.ly/4cdiS6T Guest’s Links: Kate’s Website: https://katebowler.com/ Kate’s Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/katecbowler  Kate’s Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/katecbowler/  Kate’s Twitter: https://twitter.com/katecbowler  Connect with Jen! Jen’s website - https://jenhatmaker.com/ Jen’s Instagram - https://instagram.com/jenhatmaker Jen’s Twitter - https://twitter.com/jenHatmaker/ Jen’s Facebook - https://facebook.com/jenhatmaker Jen’s YouTube - https://www.youtube.com/user/JenHatmaker?sub_confirmation=1 The For the Love Podcast is a production of Four Eyes Media, presented by Audacy.  Four Eyes Media: https://www.iiiimedia.com/ To learn more about listener data and our privacy practices visit: https://www.audacyinc.com/privacy-policy Learn more about your ad choices. Visit https://podcastchoices.com/adchoices

It’s an exciting time here at the For the Love Podcast and we are excited to share a brand new season of the show, now featuring Jen’s longtime friend, Amy Hardin! Amy’s been popping into the show all summer, and we’re thrilled to welcome her with an official seat across from Jen for all our upcoming episodes!   And what better way to get to know Amy and Jen together all over again than to bring on an Enneagram personality typing expert to give the nod to their beautiful partnership. Ian Cron, author, podcaster and Enneagram expert weighs in on Jen and Amy’s longtime friendship and gives a peek into how he thinks they will mesh as a podcast duo (tip of the hat to any friendships that are a “three” and “six” combo out there!). They also spend a little time talking about the Enneagram types of their partners—highlighting the dynamics in how different types complement (and sometimes clash with) each other.  If you’re not familiar with the Enneagram, you’re going to be fascinated, and if you are, you’ll love hearing Ian’s incredible insight into many of the 9 personality types. PLUS, Ian for the very first time on any podcast, talks about his brand new book “The Fix: How the Twelve Steps Offer a Surprising Path of Transformation for the Well-Adjusted, the Down-and-Out, and Everyone In Between.” * * * Thought-Provoking Quotes: “What I love about Enneagram sixes is; you are practical, loyal, and very witty—in a wry, wonderful way. Your humor comes out as being very self-deprecating. Then sometimes, when you're on autopilot, you default to a lot of questioning and self-doubting, and sometimes you'll be seen as being skeptical or anxious.” - Ian Morgan Cron “What determines the health of a relationship has to do with how much self-awareness each of the two people in it have. So two types of people of any Enneagram type or combination can be great with each other to the degree that they're self-aware and they're doing their own personal work.” - Ian Morgan Cron “I think the friendship exchange between an Enneagram three and a six is really interesting and beautiful. The three’s ambition and drive are tempered by the six’s caution and loyalty.” - Ian Morgan Cron “People ask me all the time; are there two Enneagram types that really go better together than other types? I'm like--it's all about how self-aware you are. Any two types can do great together to the degree they're doing their work and sharing the journey of self-discovery.” - Ian Morgan Cron Resources Mentioned in This Episode: For the Love of The Enneagram - https://jenhatmaker.com/podcasts/series-27/ For the Love Episode on Enneagram Fours ft. Ian Cron - https://bit.ly/3Aa6oPU Jen Hatmaker Book Club Podcast Episode ft. Hillary McBride -  https://bit.ly/3AvW4lL For the Love Encore Episode ft. Bessel van Der Kolk - https://bit.ly/3YzyRcg The Story of You by Ian Cron - https://bit.ly/46FWbam The Fix It by Ian Cron - https://bit.ly/3WzFYyK The Road Back to You by Ian Cron - https://bit.ly/4dejnPf The Last Blockbuster - https://www.imdb.com/title/tt8704802/ Find out your Enneagram type here: https://www.enneagraminstitute.com/ Typology with Ian Morgan Cron - https://www.typologypodcast.com/ Guest’s Links: Ian's Website - https://ianmorgancron.com/ Ian's Facebook - https://www.facebook.com/IanMorganCron/ Ian's Twitter - https://twitter.com/ianmorgancron?lang=en Ian's LinkedIn - https://www.linkedin.com/in/ianmorgancron Ian's Instagram - https://www.instagram.com/ianmorgancron/?hl=en Connect with Jen! Jen’s website - https://jenhatmaker.com/ Jen’s Instagram - https://instagram.com/jenhatmaker Jen’s Twitter - https://twitter.com/jenHatmaker/ Jen’s Facebook - https://facebook.com/jenhatmaker Jen’s YouTube - https://www.youtube.com/user/JenHatmaker?sub_confirmation=1 The For the Love Podcast is a production of Four Eyes Media, presented by Audacy.  Four Eyes Media: https://www.iiiimedia.com/ To learn more about listener data and our privacy practices visit: https://www.audacyinc.com/privacy-policy Learn more about your ad choices. Visit https://podcastchoices.com/adchoices

As part of our summer series of re-airing the best of “For the Love,” we also have Jen’s long time friend, Amy Hardin, joining Jen to introduce this episode that was originally aired on the premium channel. In this new episode, we’ll hear about Jen and Amy’s summer so far and what constitutes guilty pleasure TV binges. True crime might be considered a guilty pleasure, but if you haven’t done a deep dive into the genre, then this will be an eye opening conversation for you. We’ve got an amazing guest who is here to talk about the true crime podcast phenomenon, and she’s one of the folks that really put it on the map — Ashley Flowers, the host of the wildly popular podcast, Crime Junkies.  Ashley Flowers and her co-host Brit have spent years researching, analyzing, and solving cases. And with over 1 billion downloads, it’s easy to say they are pretty good at what they do. Jen and Ashley get into how Crime Junkies got started, their thoughts on why the true crime genre is so popular and how Ashely’s using the platform to educate as well as entertain. * * * Thought-Provoking Quotes: “I was looking for something specific, and the way we tell the stories was all based on me as the fan, not coming into a genre and being like, ‘It's popular. What can I do to make it successful?’ It was, ‘What would I really care about?’ And I think that's been the success of this show, as it comes from such a genuine place.” – Ashley Flowers  “I founded a nonprofit called Season of Justice that's all about funding testing for law enforcement. We pay the labs directly so we can do this advanced testing. Because I found in my work and the more I talk to families, the more I talk to law enforcement, one of the barriers over and over again was just finances. And that's where I was like, ‘I can fix that.’" – Ashley Flowers   “If you're truly invested in the community, there are so many different ways you can get involved and use your own talents to make a real difference and help solve these cases. I'm a storyteller, I'm a business owner, and now I'm solving murders.” – Ashley Flowers  Guest’s Links: All Good People Here by Ashley Flowers - ​​https://www.amazon.com/All-Good-People-Here-Novel/dp/0593496477  Ashley’s Instagram - https://www.instagram.com/ashleyflowers/?hl=en  Crime Junkie’s Instagram - https://www.instagram.com/crimejunkiepodcast/?hl=en  Season of Justice - https://seasonofjustice.org  Connect with Jen! Jen’s website - https://Jenhatmaker.com/ Jen’s Instagram - https://instagram.com/Jenhatmaker Jen’s Twitter - https://twitter.com/JenHatmaker/ Jen’s Facebook - https://facebook.com/Jenhatmaker Jen’s YouTube - https://www.youtube.com/user/JenHatmaker?sub_confirmation=1 The For the Love Podcast is a production of Four Eyes Media, presented by Audacy.  Four Eyes Media: https://www.iiiimedia.com/ To learn more about listener data and our privacy practices visit: https://www.audacyinc.com/privacy-policy Learn more about your ad choices. Visit https://podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Móni Guzmán came to the US from Mexico with her family many decades ago. In the past two presidential elections, her parents voted for Trump while she voted for Clinton and Biden. This created the kind of tension that must be managed very carefully. Fortunately, and relatedly, Móni has professional experience with difficult conversations in her capacity as a senior fellow at Braver Angels. We lean heavily on the ideas in Móni’s book, I Never Thought of It That Way, in this episode and throughout our 5-part series on getting along: Rupture + Repair. To learn more about listener data and our privacy practices visit: https://www.audacyinc.com/privacy-policy Learn more about your ad choices. Visit https://podcastchoices.com/adchoices

It’s been two years since Roe v. Wade was overturned by the Supreme Court. As the power to rule over women’s reproductive rights reverts to the states, we are seeing many move toward vast limitations of reproductive choices, including bans on terminating pregnancies, but also devastating impediments toward the processes that have helped those who are struggling with infertility have a chance to conceive. To open up this conversation and really delve into what this decision means, we have Jen’s longtime friend Amy Hardin joining the pod. As women who lived their childbearing years under the protections of Roe v. Wade, Jen and Amy discuss what the aftermath will look for the next generation of women.  Later on the show, we’ll feature an interview with Dr. Natalie Crawford, a Reproductive Endocrinology & Infertility Specialist in Austin, TX who really helps us break down all the salient issues. Dr. Crawford sensitively approaches all the repercussions of not having a safe way for a woman to terminate a pregnancy that many of us may not have even considered. Wherever you stand on the issue of abortion, these conversations show the ripple effect this decision has had on women’s ability to make health choices for themselves and how it affects women who do wish to conceive and the hurdles they will now face. * * * Thought-Provoking Quotes: “Reproductive care doesn't exist in silos. Abortion access is just one part of the triangle of reproductive care. And fertility care is on one end and gynecological care and OB/GYN care is on the other, but they all exist together, for a variety of reasons.” – Dr. Natalie Crawford  “You could die in pregnancy even though you have zero risk factors. We know that this happens. And so when we start assigning the idea that reproductive choice or ending a pregnancy is morally bad because you're killing a baby or a fetus, what we're really doing is devaluing the life of that mother who's carrying the baby because at any moment it could go a way that could turn lethal.” – Dr. Natalie Crawford  “We have allowed politics to infiltrate medicine and people are getting cared for differently because of the current political world. That should terrify anybody who knows somebody in their life with a uterus, that really should terrify you.” – Dr. Natalie Crawford  “Black women have three to four times the chance of dying in childbirth, even when controlled for proper prenatal care or socioeconomic class, meaning even if you are educated and you have access to care, the color of your skin is a contributing factor to you walking out of childbirth alive. That is devastating.” – Dr. Natalie Crawford  “You're either a fan of reproductive care and you respect the fact that people deserve the integrity to make their choices with their medical professionals and their loved ones, or you don't.” – Dr. Natalie Crawford Guest’s Links: Website - https://www.nataliecrawfordmd.com  Fora Fertility - https://www.forafertilityaustin.com  Instagram - https://www.instagram.com/nataliecrawfordmd/  Twitter - https://twitter.com/ncrawfordmd  Connect with Jen! Jen’s website - https://Jenhatmaker.com/ Jen’s Instagram - https://instagram.com/Jenhatmaker Jen’s Twitter - https://twitter.com/JenHatmaker/ Jen’s Facebook - https://facebook.com/Jenhatmaker Jen’s YouTube - https://www.youtube.com/user/JenHatmaker?sub_confirmation=1 The For the Love Podcast is a production of Four Eyes Media, presented by Audacy.  Four Eyes Media: https://www.iiiimedia.com/ To learn more about listener data and our privacy practices visit: https://www.audacyinc.com/privacy-policy Learn more about your ad choices. Visit https://podcastchoices.com/adchoices

We’re bringing back one of our most popular episodes ever on the pod - featuring “The Body Keeps the Score” author Dr. Bessel van der Kolk. And for a fun NEW take on the episode, Jen Hatmaker has asked one of her best friends, Amy Hardin, to join her to discuss their thoughts on this episode! Listen as Jen and Amy discuss their meet cute and then wade into the episode which delves into the relationship between trauma and the body, relating their personal experiences around this.  Dr. Van Der Kolk is a psychiatrist, author, researcher and author of the book The Body Keeps The Score. He has spent most of his career researching the causes of post traumatic stress, and is continuing to come away with groundbreaking discoveries about the power of our bodies to protect and shield us. Dr. Van Der Kolk brings us to the intersection of embodiment, mental well-being, and neuroscience and examines how we can understand our bodies’ response to trauma so we can embrace our healing. * * * Thought-Provoking Quotes: “People think about trauma as that thing that happened a long time ago. But that's not the issue, because that thing is over. It happened last year or 10 years ago, it's not happening today. But the traces that it leaves inside of you, are happening now.” - Dr. Bessel Van Der Kolk  “When you're traumatized, you try to not have all the sensations and feelings, and you turn on music loudly, or you drink or you take drugs, to make those feelings go away. And then to experience your feelings becomes very difficult.” - Dr. Bessel Van Der Kolk  “The most elementary thing is breathing. Our breath is the one thing in our body that happens whether we want it or not. And we can learn to breathe differently. So there's a physiological function that gives us access to some core pieces of ourselves, where you slow down your breath, you focus on breath, you activate your parasympathetic nervous system, and you do become calmer. That's where you start.” - Dr. Bessel Van Der Kolk   “You cannot take care of yourself unless you accept yourself for who you are.” - Dr. Bessel Van Der Kolk  “When you're traumatized, one thing becomes another thing. So to open that up, and open up the mind to new possibilities is incredibly important.” - Dr. Bessel Van Der Kolk Resources Mentioned in This Episode: The Body Keeps The Score by Dr. Bessel Van Der Kolk - https://bit.ly/3zyCVPk Guest’s Links: Dr. Van Der Kolk’s Website - https://www.besselvanderkolk.com Dr. Van Der Kolk’s Facebook - https://www.facebook.com/thebodykeepsthescore Dr. Van Der Kolk’s Instagram - https://www.instagram.com/thebodykeepsthescore/ Dr. Van Der Kolk’s YouTube - https://bit.ly/3RZpoa8 Connect with Jen! Jen’s website - https://jenhatmaker.com/ Jen’s Instagram - https://instagram.com/jenhatmaker Jen’s Twitter - https://twitter.com/jenHatmaker/ Jen’s Facebook - https://facebook.com/jenhatmaker Jen’s YouTube - https://www.youtube.com/user/JenHatmaker The For the Love Podcast is a production of Four Eyes Media, presented by Audacy.  Four Eyes Media: https://www.iiiimedia.com/ To learn more about listener data and our privacy practices visit: https://www.audacyinc.com/privacy-policy Learn more about your ad choices. Visit https://podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Kirsten Powers is a tenured news analyst who lived inside our modern age’s belly of the beast — 24-Hour Network News. Kirsten Powers lived and breathed as a senior news analyst at Fox News and then CNN for years. Eventually, she hit a breaking point and realized living full throttle, enraged about the state of the world, wasn't doing her or anyone she loved any favors. She pulled back and began examining what it would be like if she stayed engaged in political news but also still centered and compassionate. Through her examination, she wrote an entire book about how to embrace grace and disengage from inflammatory discourse called “Saving Grace: Speak Your Truth, Stay Centered, and Learn to Coexist with People Who Drive You Nuts.” If you need some advice on how to balance that tightrope walk of being informed and actionable but not totally defeated by the litany of bad news, please join Jen and Kirsten as they determine what grace looks like when the world feels culturally and politically on fire.  * * * Thought-Provoking Quotes: “I feel like what our culture is missing is grace. We don't have grace for each other, and I don't have grace for people, and I don't think other people have grace for people, for the most part. And I think it's because we don't really understand grace.” - Kirsten Powers “When you call things out, you need to call it behavior. You need to say, "You're doing X, Y, and Z, and this is a problem," versus, "You are X, Y, and Z, and you are a problem.” - Kirsten Powers “Boundaries were really hard for me. And one of the things that I discovered was, I think I thought of boundaries as almost aggressive. You're keeping people out, and that's not actually what they are. You're actually letting people know how to be in a relationship with you. So it's actually an act of grace, right?” - Kirsten Powers Resources Mentioned in This Episode: Richard Rohr on FTL Podcast: https://jenhatmaker.com/podcast/series-16/live-yourself-into-a-new-way-of-thinking-richard-rohr/ Saving Grace: Speak Your Truth, Stay Centered, and Learn to Coexist with People Who Drive You Nuts https://www.barnesandnoble.com/w/saving-grace-kirsten-powers/1138990768?ean=9780593238233 Fierce, Free and Full of Fire: The Guide to Being Glorious You https://www.barnesandnoble.com/w/fierce-free-and-full-of-fire-jen-hatmaker/1132184307?ean=9780718088163&aug=1 Kirsten’s Substack Newsletter: https://kirstenpowers.substack.com/ For the Love of the Enneagram (Jen’s podcast series on the Enneagram): https://jenhatmaker.com/podcast/series/series-27/ Guest’s Links: Kirsten’s Website: https://kirstenpowers.com/ Kirsten’s Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/kirstenpowers10/  Kirsten’s Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/KirstenPowers/ Kirsten’s Twitter: https://twitter.com/KirstenPowers Connect with Jen! Jen’s website - https://jenhatmaker.com/ Jen’s Instagram - https://instagram.com/jenhatmaker Jen’s Twitter - https://twitter.com/jenHatmaker/ Jen’s Facebook - https://facebook.com/jenhatmaker Jen’s YouTube - https://www.youtube.com/user/JenHatmaker The For the Love Podcast is a production of Four Eyes Media, presented by Audacy.  Four Eyes Media: https://www.iiiimedia.com/ To learn more about listener data and our privacy practices visit: https://www.audacyinc.com/privacy-policy Learn more about your ad choices. Visit https://podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Bestselling author, R. Eric Thomas, wrote “Here for It” in 2020 and it continues to reverberate in the hearts and minds of readers because of its timely topics and riveting personal story—making it a perfect “revisit” for our book club community! With humor and vulnerability, Eric shares about his memoir which is equal parts hilarity and heart–and what it took to write about his intersecting identities as a Black, queer, Christian man. Join Jen and Eric as they traverse transforming the ordinary into the profoundly funny and insightful. Book Summary: In his memoir of essays “Here for It,” Eric attempts to define what it means to be an “other” through his experience growing up in two very different worlds — the urban landscape of his parents home in Baltimore and then the wealthy, white suburb where he went to private school. He tries to figure out how to reconcile all of this, not just these two wildly different racial and class spaces, but also his Christian upbringing with his sexuality as a gay man; the exhaustion of code switching; accidentally finding internet fame; covering the 2016 election and all of that aftermath. Ultimately, he is seeking to answer whether the future is worth it when everything seems to be getting worse. He re-envisions what could be by placing himself at the center of his own story and sharing his experiences with us. * * * Guest’s Links: R. Eric Thomas’s Website - https://rericthomas.com/ R. Eric Thomas’s Instagram - https://www.instagram.com/oureric/ R. Eric Thomas’s Twitter - https://twitter.com/oureric R. Eric Thomas’s Facebook - https://www.facebook.com/R.Eric.T/ Books & Resources Mentioned in This Episode: Here for It or How to Save Your Soul in America by R. Eric Thomas - https://bit.ly/3KFKdTV The Preacher’s Wife - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Preacher%27s_Wife Congratulations, The Best Is Over by R. Eric Thomas - https://bit.ly/3RdAY1E Kings of Baltimore by R. Eric Thomas - https://bit.ly/3PxKvQ4 Dickinson (TV Series) - https://www.imdb.com/title/tt8518136/ Better Things (TV Series) - https://www.imdb.com/title/tt4370596/ The Moth - https://bit.ly/3Vl3YFb Andre DeShields - https://www.andredeshields.com/ Clue (The 1985 Movie) - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Clue_(film) Amy Dickinson - https://amydickinson.com/ R. Eric Thomas’s Here For It  News Letter - https://letter.rericthomas.com/ Maxine Waters - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Maxine_Waters  Ann Patchett - http://www.annpatchett.com/ Festival of Homiletics - https://festivalofhomiletics.com/ Connect with Jen! Jen’s website - http://jenhatmaker.com/  Jen’s Instagram - https://instagram.com/jenhatmaker Jen’s Twitter - https://twitter.com/jenHatmaker/  Jen’s Facebook - https://facebook.com/jenhatmaker Jen’s YouTube - https://www.youtube.com/user/JenHatmaker The For the Love Podcast is a production of Four Eyes Media, presented by Audacy.  Four Eyes Media: https://www.iiiimedia.com/ To learn more about listener data and our privacy practices visit: https://www.audacyinc.com/privacy-policy Learn more about your ad choices. Visit https://podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Our guest this week is bringing core insights into the kitchen so that everyone can:  a.) enjoy cooking and b.) turn it from a massive chore to a bright spot in your day. Author, blogger and “accidental cook” Bri McKoy is here, talking with Jen about the best practices and advice on how to become the kind of cook you want to be for your own life. Drawn from her essential cookbook, “The Cooks Book: Recipes for Keeps and Essential Techniques to Master Everyday Cooking,” Bri wants to share what she’s learned in her kitchen so that everyone’s kitchen can become a place of confidence and joy.   Jen and Bri dish on:  Why it matters where you put things in your kitchen—and how small changes can make a big impact The Forever Grocery list, is Bri’s tried and true list of things you should always have on hand in your kitchen so that you limit your time shopping and planning Bri’s Kitchen Techniques - simple rules that help us make decisions in the kitchen What you need to know about pairing the right wine with the right foods and how to stock your bar with the essentials If there’s more cooking in your life this summer with kids at home, guests coming to visit, or budget-conscious cooking when traveling, this relatable episode will give you the tools you need to de-stress your kitchen and make it a place for great food and great fun! * * * Thought-Provoking Quotes: “I come from a background of I didn't like cooking. I didn't wanna be in the kitchen. Every aspect of it, from the grocery shopping to the cleaning to the prepping was the worst. Then, when I started to learn how to cook, I became so much more joyful and less stressed out.” - Bri McKoy “I have this arsenal of these five basic things. That means I have become confident and joyful in the kitchen. I teach those tips, tricks, techniques, recipes so that other people can feel like even if they depart from my cookbook, they will have success with every other recipe they try.” - Bri McKoy “I always say that a sauce can make a meal. Like give it a glow up” - Bri McKoy Resources Mentioned in This Episode: The Cooks Book: Recipes for Keeps and Essential Techniques to Master Everyday Cooking - https://bit.ly/3DQg6Ws Cooking MeCourse ft. Jen and Bri - https://jenhatmaker.com/me-course/cooking/  Feed These People (Jen’s cookbook) - https://jenhatmaker.com/feed-these-people/  The Joy of Cooking (Cookbook) - https://bit.ly/3YpPbdv  Country Crock Buttery Spread - https://bit.ly/3OrCRER  Wine & Spirit Education Trust - https://bit.ly/3OMZPb1 Come and Eat: A Celebration of Love and Grace Around the Everyday Table (Bri’s Latest Cookbook) - https://bit.ly/3qqt89T Guest’s Links: Bri’s Website - https://oursavorylife.com/  Bri’s Facebook - https://www.facebook.com/brimckoy  Bri’s Twitter - https://twitter.com/brimckoy  Bri’s Pinterest - https://www.pinterest.com/brimckoy/  Bri’s Instagram - https://www.instagram.com/brimckoy/  Bri’s YouTube - https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCNkSDrh24WkP4HQbCfnPtwA? Connect with Jen! Jen’s website - https://jenhatmaker.com/ Jen’s Instagram - https://instagram.com/jenhatmaker Jen’s Twitter - https://twitter.com/jenHatmaker/ Jen’s Facebook - https://facebook.com/jenhatmaker Jen’s YouTube - https://www.youtube.com/user/JenHatmaker The For the Love Podcast is a production of Four Eyes Media, presented by Audacy.  Four Eyes Media: https://www.iiiimedia.com/ To learn more about listener data and our privacy practices visit: https://www.audacyinc.com/privacy-policy Learn more about your ad choices. Visit https://podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Do you struggle to feel truly at home in your body? We’re here to tell you; that it is possible. Our episode this week is a topic we return to often because we just can’t hear it enough; how we can heal our connections to our bodies. We have author and embodiment expert, Prentis Hemphill on the show, and she and Jen explore the idea of healing through embodied practices.  Prentis shares poignant insights from their work in the Black community processing racial trauma through reconnecting to embodied cultural practices. Here’s another piece of good news–when you heal your connection to your body, you present a vision of embodied healing that radiates outward - from ourselves to our communities. That in turn can transform oppressive cultures through grounded love. The possibilities are endless when we take agency over our bodies! Jen and Prentis discuss: the definitions of somatic practices and embodied healing the role of embodiment in individual healing, processing trauma, and developing resilience the connection between individual embodied healing work and the potential for broader cultural/societal healing and transformation the lack of short-term optimism for societal change, but how unshakable faith rooted in human connection and community will eventually turn the tide * * * Thought-Provoking Quotes; "Somatics is the study of how our experiences and traumas live in the body. It's also a story of how our bodies can be resilient." - by Prentis Hemphill "I think, generally, the times I feel most free are when I'm with my people and feel fully accepted and loved. When we're eating or dancing or we're cracking up and falling off the couch is when my body feels the absolute freest — when I'm in a loving community." - by Prentis Hemphill "I love embodiment. I think a lot of it fundamentally is trying to point us in the direction of relationship and authenticity, courage, and care. I think that's when we will be most embodied is when we can live those values." - by Prentis Hemphill "I think, generally, our culture just doesn't take the space and time to grieve the things that we need to grieve. We haven't celebrated the things we need to celebrate. There's a lot of denial and that stifles our growth. It keeps us, as a society, deeply immature. And I think if we could make some space for those things, a lot would change." - by Prentis Hemphill "There are no more words that can be said. We can keep talking, but there are not really any more words to say. There's something that has to happen. It has to take root in your belly. It has to be expressed through your actions. You have to change." - by Prentis Hemphill "To do anything [to create change] is going to be contingent on our ability to stay in relationship with each other." - by Prentis Hemphill Resources Mentioned in This Episode; The Black Embodiment Initiative at The Embodiment Institute - https://bit.ly/3xhlAda You Are Your Best Thing edited by Tarana Burke and Brené Brown - https://bit.ly/3z09C88 Holding Change by Adrienne Maree Brown - https://bit.ly/3RlD3Ig The Politics of Trauma by Staci Haynes - https://bit.ly/4cjpFwk What it Takes to Heal by Prentis Hemphill - https://bit.ly/4eoC6ZB Guest’s Links: Prentis’ Website - https://prentishemphill.com/ Prentis’ Twitter - https://twitter.com/prentishemphill Prentis’ LinkedIn - https://www.linkedin.com/in/prentishemphill Prentis’ Finding Our Way Podcast - https://linktr.ee/findingourwaypod Prentis’ Instagram - https://www.instagram.com/prentishemphill Connect with Jen! Jen’s website - https://jenhatmaker.com/ Jen’s Instagram - https://instagram.com/jenhatmaker Jen’s Twitter - https://twitter.com/jenHatmaker/ Jen’s Facebook - https://facebook.com/jenhatmaker Jen’s YouTube - https://www.youtube.com/user/JenHatmaker The For the Love Podcast is a production of Four Eyes Media, presented by Audacy.  Four Eyes Media: https://www.iiiimedia.com/ To learn more about listener data and our privacy practices visit: https://www.audacyinc.com/privacy-policy Learn more about your ad choices. Visit https://podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Coming in hot for our Queer Futures series, we’re bringing you an interview previously aired on For The Love’s Premium Podcast channel with celebrity Peloton instructor, Cody Rigsby. Cody has gained a devoted following through his engaging and motivational fitness classes on the Peloton platform. He talks about his memoir "XOXO Cody: An Opinionated Homosexual's Guide to Self-Love, Relationships and Tactful Pettiness" in which he opens up about transitioning from professional dance to fitness, his relationship with his mother who struggled with addiction and bipolar disorder, and how he aims to empower others through vulnerability and self-love. With his vibrant personality and inspirational story, Cody has become a celebrity in his own right.  * * * Thought-Provoking Quotes: “I think the biggest obstacle to someone starting a fitness journey is feeling intimidated. You don't know what you're doing. You don't look like the people that are at the gym. Your body doesn't know what it's doing. So it's super overwhelming. So if you can take that and push it all to the side and just be like, ‘Okay, [where] in this space can I have fun?’” - Cody Rigsby “No matter how much we love anybody in our life, specifically our parents, dealing with addiction is hard. It's challenging. You don't really know the effects of it when you're a kid until you look back as an adult and be like, ‘Oh wow, that was really messed up.’” - Cody Rigsby “In life, it gets so busy. We're wrapped up in work, we really forget what life used to be or the struggles that we had and the aspirations that we have. Then you sit in the present and you have a moment of gratitude and say to yourself, ‘Wow, I have a lot of the things that I always wanted and I've let go of so many of the things that were holding me back.” - Cody Rigsby Resources Mentioned in This Episode: Cody on Dancing with the Stars - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4JjDU_DKpeQ One Peloton Community - https://www.onepeloton.com/blog/  XOXO, Cody: An Opinionated Homosexual’s Guide to Self-Love, Relationships, and Tactful Pettiness - https://bit.ly/3z0FkSN   Dancing with the Stars ft. Cody Rigsby - https://bit.ly/4cjlCjv  Jess King: Peloton Instructor - https://www.onepeloton.com/instructors/bike/jessicaking  Robin Arzón: Peloton Instructor - https://www.onepeloton.com/instructors/bike/jessicaking  Glamorous (Netflix TV Series) - https://www.netflix.com/title/81076871  Tiger King (Netflix Documentary) - https://www.netflix.com/title/81115994 Guest’s Links: Cody’s Instagram - https://www.instagram.com/codyrigsby/ Cody’s Peloton Page - https://www.onepeloton.com/instructors/bike/codyrigsby  Cody’s Facebook - https://www.facebook.com/codyrigsbyfitness/  Cody’s Twitter - https://twitter.com/CodyRigsby  Connect with Jen! Jen’s website - https://jenhatmaker.com/ Jen’s Instagram - https://instagram.com/jenhatmaker Jen’s Twitter - https://twitter.com/jenHatmaker/ Jen’s Facebook - https://facebook.com/jenhatmaker Jen’s YouTube - https://www.youtube.com/user/JenHatmaker?sub_confirmation=1 The For the Love Podcast is a production of Four Eyes Media, presented by Audacy.  Four Eyes Media: https://www.iiiimedia.com/ To learn more about listener data and our privacy practices visit: https://www.audacyinc.com/privacy-policy Learn more about your ad choices. Visit https://podcastchoices.com/adchoices

This powerful episode in our Queer Futures series features an enlightening conversation about power structures with Jen and renowned author Roxane Gay and co-writer Megan Pillow. The women explore not only the concept of individual power, but how we can engage in community empowerment. Together, they delve into how marginalized communities, particularly LGBTQ+ individuals, can claim their power and challenge existing power structures to create a more inclusive and just society. Discussion includes:  Claiming Individual Power: How women, LGBTQ+ individuals, and others can assert their power in personal and professional spaces. Challenging Power Structures: The importance of calling out abuses of power and questioning the status quo Empowerment Through Solidarity: The role of community and collective action in amplifying individual voices and driving social progress. Re-examining Power Dynamics: How rethinking traditional notions of gender, race, and power can lead to more equitable outcomes. Focusing on the Margins: The significance of centering marginalized voices and experiences in conversations about power and progress. Roxane and Megan discuss practical steps that anyone can take to empower others around them. We’re encouraged to ask ourselves critical questions about our own relationships to power and to question the power sources that infringe on the rights of others and use our individual power to disrupt them. Every small act of resistance contributes to a larger movement for justice. * * * Thought-Provoking Quotes: “Power doesn't affect all of us equally and some people are able to wield power or are given power, and others have power wielded against them. There are all kinds of factors that contribute to the why of that.” - Dr. Roxane Gay “When you see an abuse of power, call it out and identify it. Oftentimes power works because nobody questions it and nobody challenges it.” - Dr. Roxane Gay "We have to use voting as one tool [to enact change], but we have to figure out other ways to be involved in our communities and to enact other forms of power, not just rely on voting as the singular tool that we use to try to enact change.” - Dr. Roxane Gay “The queer future is complicated. I think the queer future is much better than the queer past, and we are really enjoying a lot of freedom. But it's not enough and until all of us are free, none of us are free.” - Dr. Roxane Gay Resources Mentioned in This Episode: Bad Feminist by Dr. Roxane Gay - https://roxanegay.com/books/bad-feminist/ Difficult Women by Dr. Roxane Gay - https://roxanegay.com/books/difficult-women/ Hunger by Dr. Roxane Gay - https://roxanegay.com/books/hunger/ All of Roxane’s Books - https://roxanegay.com/books/ Do The Work: A Guide to Understanding Power and Creating Change by Dr.Roxane Gay and Dr. Megan Pillow - https://bit.ly/45nxhvd The Power Book: What is it, Who Has it, and Why? by Dr. Roxane Gay - https://bit.ly/3VBRYAl Obergefell v. Hodges (2015 Supreme Court case making same-sex marriages legal in the U.S.) - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Obergefell_v._Hodges Guest’s Links: Roxane’s Website - https://roxanegay.com/ Roxane’s Facebook - https://www.facebook.com/roxanegay74   Roxane’s Instagram - https://www.instagram.com/roxanegay74 The Audacity (Roxane and Megan’s Stubstack Blog) - https://audacity.substack.com/ Megan’s Website - https://www.meganpillow.com/ Megan’s Twitter - https://twitter.com/megpillow Megan’s Instagram - https://www.instagram.com/megpillow77/ Craftwork (Megan’s Substack Blog) - https://craftwork.substack.com/ Connect with Jen! Jen’s website - https://jenhatmaker.com/ Jen’s Instagram - https://instagram.com/jenhatmaker Jen’s Twitter - https://twitter.com/jenHatmaker/ Jen’s Facebook - https://facebook.com/jenhatmaker Jen’s YouTube - https://www.youtube.com/user/JenHatmaker The For the Love Podcast is a production of Four Eyes Media, presented by Audacy.  Four Eyes Media: https://www.iiiimedia.com/ To learn more about listener data and our privacy practices visit: https://www.audacyinc.com/privacy-policy Learn more about your ad choices. Visit https://podcastchoices.com/adchoices

In this special bonus episode of the For the Love Podcast, Jen sits down with her literary hero — beloved author and teacher, Anne Lamott, whose candid, humorous writing has inspired millions to embrace their imperfect selves. Anne and Jen explore the hard-won wisdom distilled across Anne's 45-year career and 20 books - from finding radical self-love after a lifetime of shame, to surrendering to life's ordinary miracles during periods of existential crisis. With refreshing irreverence, Anne shares her lessons on unearthing your deepest, truest voice and faith that new paths are waiting, even when the way forward feels hopelessly obscured. Jen and Anne discuss The importance of radical self-love, letting go of shame, and being your own priority before trying to please or gain approval from others Having faith that there is a "shape" or path waiting for you, even if you can't see it yet, by surrendering and doing the work of self-examination The wisdom that comes with age in realizing how little you know The way small, mundane acts can be profound expressions of love and service to buoy you during dark periods For anyone who has ever felt cracked by life's circumstances, Anne's perspective provides a roadmap back to wholeness. Thought-Provoking Quotes: “[I've been] giving myself deeper and deeper permission to use my own voice and to stop trying to get people to like or respect me or to think I'm more educated than I am--which I'm not at all educated--and to just get kind of cleaner in my own being so that I could write the deepest I could go in my own truest voice and just get that day's work done one day at a time. It's like nautilus for the soul. To keep writing your truth with your own weird, quirky, way of expressing yourself and being affirmed that people seem to like it and to keep going.” - Anne Lamott "What love manifests is making more mistakes. Knowing as a writer, that a pile of papers and notes and index cards is a fertile field, and you don't need to know what you're going to do with them. They know what you're going to do with them. The material knows what you're going to do with it, and it's going to get back to you as it trusts more and more that you're a reliable narrator." - Anne Lamott “We do some deep dive into the obstacles to radical self-love and to just surrendering to the path of goodness or God or the holiness. The first thing God says to Moses is 'take off your shoes. Feel the earth beneath your feet. This is holy ground.' And that is what God has for you, starting right now. Take off your shoes and wiggle your toes in the earth. Look up. Breathe in. And when you are restored from what you've been through, all this nautilus for your soul you've been doing, you're going to step forward into that shape.” - Anne Lamott Resources Mentioned in this Bonus Episode:  Bird by Bird: Some Instructions on Writing and Life - https://bit.ly/3K1JZGg Somehow: Thoughts on Love by Anne Lamott - https://bit.ly/3ytWzeK The American Way of Death by Jessica Mitford - https://bit.ly/3JZCP5s Hard Laughter: A Novel by Anne Lamott - https://bit.ly/4bFcO7b Five Rules of Being a Grown-Up (Article by CJ Green) - https://bit.ly/4bXbmxl 8 Best Anne Lamott Books -https://bit.ly/3yoWbyj Guest Links: Twitter - https://twitter.com/annelamott/ Facebook - https://www.facebook.com/AnneLamott/ Instagram - https://www.instagram.com/annelamott/ Penguin Random House - https://sites.prh.com/annelamott Connect with Jen! Jen’s website - http://jenhatmaker.com/ Jen’s Instagram - https://instagram.com/jenhatmaker Jen’s Twitter - https://twitter.com/jenHatmaker/ Jen’s Facebook - https://facebook.com/jenhatmaker Jen’s YouTube - https://www.youtube.com/user/JenHatmaker The For the Love Podcast is a production of Four Eyes Media, presented by Audacy.  Four Eyes Media: https://www.iiiimedia.com/ To learn more about listener data and our privacy practices visit: https://www.audacyinc.com/privacy-policy Learn more about your ad choices. Visit https://podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Jen Hatmaker revisits one of the most impactful and downloaded episodes from her "For the Love" podcast's 7-year history. In this powerful encore, she has a candid conversation with acclaimed writer and speaker Jonathan Merritt who publicly comes out as gay for the first time during their interview. Jen and Jonathan reflect on their intertwined journeys - she as an ally leaving the evangelical world, he as a prominent faith voice reckoning with his sexuality. Brace yourself for an emotional, insightful look at the joy and pain of Jonathan's coming out experience. This is one powerhouse episode you won't want to miss again (or for the first time!). * * * Thought-Provoking Quotes: “I had a choice. I could either leave the idea of being loved in that way and loving in that way behind and to get belonging and acceptance, or I could choose to be rejected by the people that I was given as a family and a faith community and I could go off on my own way and try to find love. And that's a tough decision.” – Jonathan Merritt  “I'd grown up hearing this, ‘we hate the sin, we love the sinner.’ And yet, everywhere I looked was all this sin-hate. And there was no marking of loving these people.” – Jonathan Merritt “The number one reason that someone changes their views on homosexuality or same-sex marriage is how they answer the question, ‘Do you have a close family member or friend who is gay?’” – Jonathan Merritt “I live in an Episcopal seminary. You feel hundreds of years of prayers that have been prayed here by good people. People who joined the Civil Rights Movement. And people who were marching after the Stonewall Riots. And people who did it because they loved Jesus and not in spite of that fact.” – Jonathan Merritt "American evangelicalism is predicated on the existence of an enemy to fight, and that keeps people coming to church. It's the need to be against, right? And people revel in that, that's the selling point." – Jonathan Merritt Resources Mentioned in This Episode: Love is the Game Changer of Our Faith: Bishop Michael Curry - https://bit.ly/3BQ2FUl How to Create a Politics of Love: Lisa Sharon Harper - https://bit.ly/3IdV3gW Jen Hatmaker: Trump, Black Lives Matter, Gay Marriage & More - Jonathan Merritt - https://bit.ly/3IhrUS0 Christian Rock Star Comes Out as Gay in Letter to the World - Jonathan Merritt - https://bit.ly/3siB9Ms Eugene Peterson on Changing His Mind About Same-Sex Issues and Marriage - Jonathan Merritt - https://bit.ly/3LXWlyX Leading Evangelical Ethicist is now Pro-LGBT (David Gushee) - Jonathan Merritt - https://bit.ly/3LVOTUV A Faith of Our Own: Following Jesus Beyond the Culture Wars - Jonathan Merritt - https://bit.ly/3Vvj8J6 Dr. Michael Lindsay - Sociologist & Author - https://www.taylor.edu/about/president-profile James Martin - Jesuit Priest - https://www.instagram.com/jamesmartinsj/ My Guncle and Me by Jonathan Merritt - https://www.amazon.com/My-Guncle-Me-Jonathan-Merritt/dp/0762485612 Guest’s Links: Website - https://www.jonathanmerritt.com  Instagram - https://www.instagram.com/jonathan_merritt/  Twitter - https://twitter.com/JonathanMerritt Connect with Jen! Jen’s website - https://jenhatmaker.com/ Jen’s Instagram - https://instagram.com/jenhatmaker Jen’s Twitter - https://twitter.com/jenHatmaker/ Jen’s Facebook - https://facebook.com/jenhatmaker Jen’s YouTube - https://www.youtube.com/user/JenHatmaker The For the Love Podcast is a production of Four Eyes Media, presented by Audacy.  Four Eyes Media: https://www.iiiimedia.com/ To learn more about listener data and our privacy practices visit: https://www.audacyinc.com/privacy-policy Learn more about your ad choices. Visit https://podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Jen and award-winning author, Kelly Barnhill, discuss the powerful themes and inspirations behind her genre-defying book "When Women Were Dragons." Sparked by her outrage during the Kavanaugh hearings, Barnhill created a bold metaphor where women transform into dragons to escape societal oppression. In this conversation, she delves into her controversial ending that ultimately represents the multitude of paths to female empowerment. Barnhill also examines the dangerous historical pattern of silencing trauma and marginalized voices, from the 1918 flu to violent racial tensions. Jen and Kelly discuss: “When Women Were Dragons’" exploration of women transforming into dragons as a metaphor for rebelling against oppression and societal constraints. The ending and how it represents there are multiple valid paths for women's empowerment - some transformative, others finding power in conventional roles. Highlights about the historical pattern of silencing traumatic events and oppression of marginalized groups. Portrayals of womanhood as expansive and defying rigid societal definitions of what a woman is or can be. Novel Summary: "When Women Were Dragons" by Kelly Barnhill is a feminist fantasy novel that explores themes of female empowerment, societal repression, and transformation. Set in an alternate 1950s America, the story revolves around a mysterious event known as the "Mass Dragoning of 1955," where a significant number of women across the country inexplicably turn into dragons and fly away, leaving behind their human lives. The protagonist, Alex Green, navigates life in the aftermath of this event. She grows up in a society that tries to suppress and erase the memory of the dragonings, facing the stigma and secrecy surrounding the topic. Alex's journey involves uncovering family secrets, particularly those related to her aunt Marla, who was one of the women who transformed. As Alex learns more about her aunt's life and the circumstances of the dragonings, she begins to understand the broader implications of the event and its connection to women's liberation and agency. * * * Guest’s Links: Kelly’s Website - https://kellybarnhill.wordpress.com/ Kelly’s Instagram - https://www.instagram.com/insufferable_blabbermouth/ Kelly’s Twitter - https://twitter.com/kellybarnhill Books & Resources Mentioned in This Episode: The Girl Who Drank the Moon by Kelly Barnhill - https://bit.ly/3Vd01m3 The Book of Dragons: An Anthology - https://bit.ly/4bO3ldN Kavanaugh Hearing - https://supreme.justia.com/justices/brett-m-kavanaugh/ 1918 Spanish Flu Pandemic - https://bit.ly/3ysjfvX The Book of Love: A Novel by Kelly Link - https://bit.ly/4btgQzN Nettle & Bone - https://us.macmillan.com/books/9781250824776/nettlebone Connect with Jen! Jen’s website - http://jenhatmaker.com/  Jen’s Instagram - https://instagram.com/jenhatmaker Jen’s Twitter - https://twitter.com/jenHatmaker/  Jen’s Facebook - https://facebook.com/jenhatmaker Jen’s YouTube - https://www.youtube.com/user/JenHatmaker?sub_confirmation=1 The For the Love Podcast is a production of Four Eyes Media, presented by Audacy.  Four Eyes Media: https://www.iiiimedia.com/ To learn more about listener data and our privacy practices visit: https://www.audacyinc.com/privacy-policy Learn more about your ad choices. Visit https://podcastchoices.com/adchoices

This week’s top episode from the archives is our number one most listened to episode. In a profoundly moving encore episode, Jen Hatmaker shares the story of interviewing her daughter, Sydney, as Sydney shared her emotional coming out story. This raw conversation follows Sydney as she vulnerably shares her journey of accepting herself as gay while still holding onto her faith–and we’re very excited to share this again during Pride Month as part of our Queer Futures series. Jen reintroduces the episode reflecting on what’s changed since this conversation and how it’s affected her community. Three years later, this episode remains an incredible force, sparking deep discussions around LGBTQ+ issues and Christianity in our community. Jen recalls the immense reach and impact this episode evoked - from mending broken family relationships to causing church leaders to reevaluate their approach. As Jen reflects on Sydney’s growth, it’s a beautiful reminder that embracing authenticity allows people to flourish. * * * Thought-Provoking Quotes: “I was just scared, and alone. And I wanted to have it all. I wanted to have my family, and God, and my future. And I didn't think I'd be able to have it all.” -Sydney Hatmaker “It doesn't matter how loving you are, or what emphasis on Scripture you come with. That's not enough if you're not fully accepting them as children of God.” -Sydney Hatmaker “Your allyship can't be about you, and it can't be performative, and it has to be for everybody. And it has to be about love.” -Sydney Hatmaker Connect with Jen! Jen’s website - https://jenhatmaker.com/ Jen’s Instagram - https://instagram.com/jenhatmaker Jen’s Twitter - https://twitter.com/jenHatmaker/ Jen’s Facebook - https://facebook.com/jenhatmaker Jen’s YouTube - https://www.youtube.com/user/JenHatmaker?sub_confirmation=1 The For the Love Podcast is a production of Four Eyes Media, presented by Audacy.  Four Eyes Media: https://www.iiiimedia.com/ To learn more about listener data and our privacy practices visit: https://www.audacyinc.com/privacy-policy Learn more about your ad choices. Visit https://podcastchoices.com/adchoices

In this emotionally charged last episode in our For the Love of the Matriarchy series, Jen shares an intimate and profound conversation with Christine Blasey Ford, who came into the public eye when she testified before the Senate Judiciary Committee on September 27th, 2018, while it was considering the nomination of Judge Brett Kavanaugh to the United States Supreme Court; describing an alleged sexual assault by the Supreme Court nominee that took place at a high school party in the 80s. Christine, with brave vulnerability, opens up about her harrowing experience in the aftermath of her testimony and the tsunami of public scrutiny she faced. Through her story, we're reminded of the incredible power of women when we come together, support one another, and find our collective voice against injustices. This episode is not just a dialogue; it's a clarion call to all women to connect, share, and empower each other in a world that often seeks to silence us. Christine shares with Jen: the moment she heard that Brett Kavanaugh was on a short list of Supreme Court justice nominees and the immediate reaction that she needed those in power to know the truth the emotional toll the aftermath of the experience took on Christine and her family, and the safety measures they had to employ because of constant death threats why she decided to write a book, One Way Back, to tell the story now, citing what she learned through the experience and what she knows now about the many other women in history who have also spoken their truth about sexual harassment and assault the incredible amount of support she received from women and sexual assault survivors in the form of letters, which carried her through some of the most difficult moments Jen and Christine's conversation underscores a crucial message: when women connect, we're not just powerful together; we're unstoppable. * * * Thought-Provoking Quotes: “It took many years to feel that I was ready to say something and to break the silence. I had been silent for so long. I was feeling a little bit guilty even, for having so much focus and learning about the contributions of so many other women in so many different venues who have spoken up against sexual harassment and sexual assault. And I just thought, 'Wow, I need to share all the things that I didn't know beforehand. Maybe I could share them and maybe it will help someone.'" - Christine Blasey Ford “The system can often work in ways that make [women] feel divided and makes us feel negatively towards each other. But when we actually connect, we're really powerful together.” - Christine Blasey Ford Resources Mentioned in This Episode: Christine’s Senate Judiciary Committee Testimony - https://bit.ly/3UzlYeof  One Way Back: A Memoir by Christine Blasey Ford - https://bit.ly/4dHlk7C Washington Post Article featuring Christine Blasey Ford - https://bit.ly/4bjFNh3 Guest’s Links: Christine’s Instagram - https://www.instagram.com/christine_talkinout/ Christine’s Twitter - https://twitter.com/fordchristine66 Connect with Jen! Jen’s website - https://jenhatmaker.com/ Jen’s Instagram - https://instagram.com/jenhatmaker Jen’s Twitter - https://twitter.com/jenHatmaker/ Jen’s Facebook - https://facebook.com/jenhatmaker Jen’s YouTube - https://www.youtube.com/user/JenHatmaker The For the Love Podcast is a production of Four Eyes Media, presented by Audacy.  Four Eyes Media: https://www.iiiimedia.com/ To learn more about listener data and our privacy practices visit: https://www.audacyinc.com/privacy-policy Learn more about your ad choices. Visit https://podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Today we’re diving into the profound biological, psychological and social shifts experienced when becoming a mother - a process known as "matrescence.” Jen sits down with science journalist, Lucy Jones, who experienced a seismic identity shift that arose after the birth of her first child.   Lucy and Jen unpack groundbreaking neuroscience research and they expose the deep-rooted myths and unrealistic expectations surrounding modern motherhood. From the minimizing of postpartum struggles to the pressure of "natural birthing" ideals, Lucy reveals how these systemic fictions can breed shame, isolation and maternal mental health crises. Jen and Lucy discuss: The concept of "matrescence" - the biological, psychological and social transition to becoming a mother that renders profound identity changes How modern cultural myths and idealized notions of motherhood as blissful and "natural" can be deeply alienating and contribute to maternal mental health issues The systemic lack of scientific research and societal rituals to prepare and support women through the seismic transformation of matrescence The need to construct new narratives, share vulnerable experiences, and build community care around the modern realities of the matrescence * * * Thought-Provoking Quotes: “[Matrescence] is a very simple concept that means the process of becoming a mother. The word is a little bit like 'adolescence'. It was coined by the late American anthropologist Dana Rafael in the 70's. She also coined the word 'doula'. She first wrote about it in an essay collection published in 1974 where she talks about how, in most societies and cultures across the world, people have always had a sense that a mother is born when a baby is born. But she also describes your identity, your social relationships, your roles, your everyday life, your mind, your psychology, and your emotions." - Lucy Jones Resources Mentioned in This Episode: Matrescence by Lucy Jones - https://bit.ly/4dDYI83 Foxes Unearthed by Lucy Jones - https://bit.ly/44E9Uxp Losing Eden by Lucy Jones - https://bit.ly/4byVO2k Dana Rafael (an American Anthropologist) - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dana_Raphael  “The Birth of a Mother” (A New York Times Article by Alexandra Sacks) - https://bit.ly/4bow0WK 2017 NIH Article on Pregnancy Leading to Changes in the Brain - https://bit.ly/3UAGiMK Of Woman Born by Adrienne Rich - https://wwnorton.com/books/Of-Woman-Born/ Andrea O’Reilly - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Andrea_O'Reilly Guest’s Links: Lucy’s Website: https://lucyfjones.com/ Lucy’s Twitter: https://twitter.com/lucyjones Lucy’s Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/lucyfjones/ Lucy’s Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/lucyjonesbooks/ Connect with Jen! Jen’s website - https://jenhatmaker.com/ Jen’s Instagram - https://instagram.com/jenhatmaker Jen’s Twitter - https://twitter.com/jenHatmaker/ Jen’s Facebook - https://facebook.com/jenhatmaker Jen’s YouTube - https://www.youtube.com/user/JenHatmaker The For the Love Podcast is a production of Four Eyes Media, presented by Audacy.  Four Eyes Media: https://www.iiiimedia.com/ To learn more about listener data and our privacy practices visit: https://www.audacyinc.com/privacy-policy Learn more about your ad choices. Visit https://podcastchoices.com/adchoices

In this episode of the Matriarchy series, we explore how deeply ingrained patriarchal narratives can create a policing effect on the behavior of women.  Author, Elise Loehnen, discusses her book "On Our Best Behavior" which examines how concepts like the seven deadly sins have historically been used to restrict women's behavior and police their adherence to an idealized form of "goodness." Loehnen unpacks the insidious ways women are culturally conditioned from a young age to suppress normal human drives like anger, ambition, and sexuality. And how disrupting rigid gender stereotypes is important when raising the next generation in order to build a more compassionate world.  Jen and Elise discuss: How women are culturally conditioned and expected to embody "goodness" while men are oriented toward power  How concepts like the "seven deadly sins" have historically been used as a patriarchal "punch card" to police women's behavior Why raising boys to have an emotional inner life nurtures positive identity development The current era of politics that calls for women to challenge the patriarchal system while also having compassionate dialogue to build a new, care-centered world where everyone can flourish * * * Thought-Provoking Quotes: “Women are trained for goodness and men are trained for power.” - Elise Loehnen “The worst thing for a woman is reputational harm--just the assigning of her badness. Bad mother. Toxic coworker. Toxic boss. Unkind. She says the wrong thing. And it's sort of impossible to defend yourself against that. We have zero tolerance, and it's very scary.” - Elise Loehnen "We need a culture where the men are like, 'I would like to be more like women. I need to be caring. I want to be nurturing and creative. And yes, I can be strong and I can be masculine, but I also need this underdeveloped muscle.'" - Elise Loehnen Resources Mentioned in This Episode: On Our Best Behavior by Elise Loehnen - https://bit.ly/44tz41D Goop - https://goop.com For the Love of Being Seen and Heard ft. Lori Gottlieb - https://bit.ly/4b8YT9C Maybe You Should Talk to Someone by Lori Gottlieb - https://bit.ly/3JO7FOn Evagrius Ponticus (Fourth Century Christian Monk) - https://bit.ly/4b7zEV5 Pope Gregory on the 7 Deadly Sins - https://bit.ly/3y1J1XK Harvey Weinstein Abuse Cases - https://bit.ly/4b5ktM5 Carol Gilligan - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Carol_Gilligan In a Different Voice by Carol Gilligan - https://bit.ly/3JQ9IBh   Human Voice by Carol Gilligan - https://bit.ly/3UQ1Rcn Andrew Tate - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Andrew_Tate Order, Disorder, Reorder (An idea Developed by Richard Rohr) - https://bit.ly/44xzHqK For the Love of The Enneagram ft. Richard Rohr - https://bit.ly/3QzzZaW Loretta Ross - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Loretta_Ross Guest’s Links: Elise’s Website - https://www.eliseloehnen.com/ Elise’s Instagram - https://www.instagram.com/eliseloehnen/ Elise’s Twitter - https://www.twitter.com/eloehnen Elise’s Facebook - https://www.facebook.com/EliseLoehnen/ Elise’s LinkedIn - https://www.linkedin.com/in/elise-loehnen-b867523/ Pulling the Thread (Elise’s Stubstack Blog) - https://eliseloehnen.substack.com/ Pulling the Thread (Elise’s Podcast) - https://www.eliseloehnen.com/episodes Connect with Jen! Jen’s website - https://jenhatmaker.com/ Jen’s Instagram - https://instagram.com/jenhatmaker Jen’s Twitter - https://twitter.com/jenHatmaker/ Jen’s Facebook - https://facebook.com/jenhatmaker Jen’s YouTube - https://www.youtube.com/user/JenHatmaker?sub_confirmation=1 The For the Love Podcast is a production of Four Eyes Media, presented by Audacy.  Four Eyes Media: https://www.iiiimedia.com/ To learn more about listener data and our privacy practices visit: https://www.audacyinc.com/privacy-policy Learn more about your ad choices. Visit https://podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Jen and Isabel Allende discuss her novel, Violeta, and why Allende makes her bold choices in characters, events, and settings. Allende shares her fascinating personal background - born in Peru, living as a refugee, and eventually immigrating to the U.S. where she began her writing career. Allende explains how Violeta's story was inspired by her own mother's life and letters, which Allende has meticulously preserved over decades. The author discusses how Violeta's complicated romantic relationships and experiences of political upheaval mirror Allende's own life. Particularly compelling moments include: Allende's description and showing of the extensive archive of her mother's letters The author's insights on the challenges women writers face, having to work harder than men to achieve respect Allende's personal experiences with family tragedy that informed the novel The author's delight in crafting the "villain" character of Julián, as well as the beloved nanny character based on Allende's own housekeeper Overall, you’ll hear a dynamic conversation between Jen and Isabel on life, love, and loss.  Novel Summary: The novel follows the life of Violeta, who is born in 1920 in the aftermath of World War I and the onset of Spanish flu pandemic. The story traces Violeta's tumultuous life as she navigates historic events, including the Great Depression forcing her family into poverty and a relocation to a remote part of their South American homeland. Structured through a series of letters Violeta writes to her grandson, the narrative portrays her resilience, passion, and humor against the backdrop of major 20th century historical events and upheavals, including women's rights struggles. The story arcs through Violeta's experiences of love, heartbreak, and the ebb and flow of wealth, set against the sweeping historical context of an unnamed South American country. * * * Guest’s Links: Isabel’s Website - https://www.isabelallende.com/en  Isabel’s Instagram - https://www.instagram.com/allendeisabel/  Isabel’s Twitter - https://twitter.com/isabellallende Isabel’s Facebook - https://www.facebook.com/isabelallende/  Books & Resources Mentioned in This Episode: List of Isabel’s Books - https://www.isabelallende.com/en/books  Violeta by Isabel Allende - ​​https://www.isabelallende.com/en/book/violeta  James by Percival Everett - https://www.amazon.com/James-Novel-Percival-Everett/dp/0385550367  Connect with Jen! Jen’s website - http://jenhatmaker.com/  Jen’s Instagram - https://instagram.com/jenhatmaker Jen’s Twitter - https://twitter.com/jenHatmaker/  Jen’s Facebook - https://facebook.com/jenhatmaker Jen’s YouTube - https://www.youtube.com/user/JenHatmaker?sub_confirmation=1 To learn more about listener data and our privacy practices visit: https://www.audacyinc.com/privacy-policy Learn more about your ad choices. Visit https://podcastchoices.com/adchoices

For this special bonus episode, Jen talks with WNBA star, Brittney Griner, who shares her powerful story of resilience after she was wrongfully detained in Russian prisons for nearly a year. Brittney provides a heartbreaking firsthand account of the inhumane conditions she endured, from the lack of legal rights and translators to cruel psychological tactics by guards. She opens up about the pivotal role her faith played in giving her mental strength to survive. Brittney also discusses the ongoing trauma she has faced since returning home, and the renewed sense of motivation to use her voice and platform to advocate for other detainees abroad still seeking freedom.  Jen and Brittney discuss: Griner's harrowing account of being imprisoned in Russia and how she’s fighting to get more US prisoners home The pivotal role her faith and reading the Bible played in giving her strength to survive mentally and emotionally. Her candid discussion of the ongoing trauma she's working through since returning to the U.S. Her optimism about the WNBA's rising popularity to force meaningful change in addressing the glaring pay gap with men's basketball. Thought-Provoking Quotes: "My biggest fear was the fear of being forgotten." - Brittney Griner "We feel like we're in control a lot in our everyday lives. But being over there, I was in a place where I needed help. I couldn't control anything. It was out of my hands. I had to rely on something, or I would have gone crazy...I would have Bible study on Sundays and I think that's what got me through, honestly." - Brittney Griner "We need everybody to buy into [the WNBA]. We need to challenge companies to stop just checking a box and saying, 'Oh, we fight for equality. We had a month. We had some shirts.' That's a step. But we need you to put dollars down to make a difference." - Brittney Griner Resources Mentioned in this Bonus Episode:  Caitlin Clark - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Caitlin_Clark “It Gets Better Project” - https://bit.ly/4al2EaZ Coming Home by Brittney Griner - https://www.amazon.com/Coming-Home-Brittney-Griner/dp/0593801342 Guest Link: Website - https://wearebg.org/ Instagram - https://www.instagram.com/brittneyyevettegriner Twitter - https://twitter.com/brittneygriner Facebook - https://www.facebook.com/BrittneyGriner Connect with Jen! Jen’s website - http://jenhatmaker.com/ Jen’s Instagram - https://instagram.com/jenhatmaker Jen’s Twitter - https://twitter.com/jenHatmaker/ Jen’s Facebook - https://facebook.com/jenhatmaker Jen’s YouTube - https://www.youtube.com/user/JenHatmaker?sub_confirmation=1 To learn more about listener data and our privacy practices visit: https://www.audacyinc.com/privacy-policy Learn more about your ad choices. Visit https://podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Continuing In our For the Love of The Matriarchy series, Jen talks with powerful women who are taking innovative approaches to their work, their relationships, and their joy. Bozoma Saint John is a trailblazing marketing executive whose career has taken her to the heights of companies like Pepsi, Apple, Uber and Netflix. But her path to becoming a "badass" has been one marked by profound loss and upheaval.  From the loss of her first child and her husband's battle with cancer, to being told she's "too much" by those closest to her, Bozoma opens up about summoning resilience from life's lowest lows. She discusses redefining what true strength looks like, embracing authenticity even when it ruffles the status quo, and pioneering a collaborative model of single parenthood that makes space for her daughter's voice. Jen and Bozoma discuss: Embracing authenticity even when it ruffles the status quo and offends those in power Redefining strength not as impenetrable toughness, but as the pliability in experiencing brokenness yet still rising again The complexities of reconciling life's tragedies with its gifts and holding space for gratitude amid loss Pioneering a collaborative, trust-based model of single parenthood that makes space for her daughter's voice and needs For anyone craving inspiration to honor their scars while uncompromisingly claiming their power, this is a master class. * * * Thought-Provoking Quotes: “Privilege is a reliable enemy of equality. And it is sometimes insidious the lengths we’ll go to protect it because we're still benefiting [from it].” - Bozoma Saint John "You don't have to have had the same losses I've had or suffered the same way I suffered to prove that you are worthy of the scars that you bear. You have them and it's okay." - Bozoma Saint John “My parenting has changed because I need to make space for [my daughter] to be honest with me about what she needs so that I can be the mother that she needs; not necessarily the mother that I think is needed.” - Bozoma Saint John "The most amazing thing about being human is how incredibly tied we are to each other. And it is a beautiful thing that even through our pain, we are still tied together as human beings." - Bozoma Saint John Resources Mentioned in This Episode: Bozoma’s Marketing Hall of Fame Induction: https://marketinghalloffame.org/inductees-leading-marketers/bozoma-saint-john-2022-marketing-inductee/ 2021 Most Influential CMO: https://www.forbes.com/connect/event/2021-wmi-cmos/ Ambassador to the African Diaspora and Special Envoy to the President of Ghana: https://bit.ly/4bhmVig. Guest’s Links: Bozoma’s Website: https://www.bozomasaintjohn.com/ Bozoma’s Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/SaintBoz Bozoma’s Twitter: https://twitter.com/badassboz Bozoma’s Instagram: http://instagram.com/badassboz Bozoma’s Linkedin: https://www.linkedin.com/in/bozoma-saint-john-0305441/ Connect with Jen! Jen’s website - https://jenhatmaker.com/ Jen’s Instagram - https://instagram.com/jenhatmaker Jen’s Twitter - https://twitter.com/jenHatmaker/ Jen’s Facebook - https://facebook.com/jenhatmaker Jen’s YouTube - https://www.youtube.com/user/JenHatmaker?sub_confirmation=1 The For the Love Podcast is a production of Four Eyes Media, presented by Audacy.  Four Eyes Media: https://www.iiiimedia.com/ To learn more about listener data and our privacy practices visit: https://www.audacyinc.com/privacy-policy Learn more about your ad choices. Visit https://podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Welcome to the For The Love of The Matriarchy series where we’ll explore all the different aspects of women working to embrace agency and celebrating their worth. As we celebrate the power of women and their accomplishments, we’ll also look at the challenges women have faced in a patriarchal society (and still face) and what that means for their bodies and autonomy.  Cait West is an author who grew up in an extreme patriarchal Christian community. She was taught from a young age that her sole purpose was to become a submissive wife and mother. This pervasive sense of having no agency or control over her own life, combined with the constant messaging that she was inherently sinful and unworthy, took a profound toll on Cait's mental health, causing severe anxiety and depression from a very young age. Jen and Cait delve into how families can fall into toxic belief systems, and what recovery can look like. Jen and Cait discuss: The impact of being raised in a fundamentalist, patriarchal environment that severely restricts a woman's autonomy, education, and life choices. The healing power of finding community, sharing one's story, and reclaiming agency after experiencing spiritual abuse and trauma. The difficult but important choice of breaking free from oppressive systems, even when it means severing ties with your own family * * * Thought-Provoking Quotes: "[My husband] has always been my steady companion because he experienced some of that verbal abuse from my dad, and he knew what it was like...When I would have anxiety attacks, he didn't understand what was going on either, but he would just sit with me until I could get through it and come back to regulate my nervous system. He just was there with me through it. And that meant more than having someone try to fix it or totally tell me what to do." - Cait West "I realized I had a story to tell. Going to writing conferences and learning from other writers like you who were talking about speaking up for injustice, I decided to tell part of my story online. I started doing that around 2018 and realized there's a lot more people who've been through this and they've just been silenced or afraid — people who if they say something, their family's going to cut them off. That's what happened to me in 2019. I had an interview and I started talking online about my experience and my dad decided not to talk to me anymore. I understand that fear but once I lost that relationship, I felt liberated to tell my story. Because somebody has to. Somebody has to say something." - Cait West "Cait's my real first name, and then West is my grandmother's — what we call the maiden name. It's always resonated with me, my mother's heritage, because they're Southerners, they grew up in poverty. The women in my family have always been the leaders and the strong people of faith. And so to me, it's kind of like calling back to that heritage and recognizing it and trying to hold on to some kind of legacy after losing so much of my life." - Cait West Resources Mentioned in This Episode: Christian Patriarchy Movement - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Biblical_patriarchy Tears of Eden (Nonprofit for survivors of spiritual abuse - https://www.tearsofeden.org/ Rift: A Memoir by Cait West - https://www.caitwest.com/book Guest’s Links: Website - https://www.caitwest.com/ Twitter - https://bit.ly/3UytS9l Facebook - https://www.facebook.com/caitwestwrites/ Instagram - https://www.instagram.com/caitwestwrites/?hl=en TikTok - https://www.tiktok.com/@caitwestwrites Substack - https://caitwest.substack.com/ Connect with Jen! Jen’s website - https://jenhatmaker.com/ Jen’s Instagram - https://instagram.com/jenhatmaker Jen’s Twitter - https://twitter.com/jenHatmaker/ Jen’s Facebook - https://facebook.com/jenhatmaker Jen’s YouTube - https://www.youtube.com/user/JenHatmaker?sub_confirmation=1 The For the Love Podcast is a production of Four Eyes Media, presented by Audacy.  Four Eyes Media: https://www.iiiimedia.com/ To learn more about listener data and our privacy practices visit: https://www.audacyinc.com/privacy-policy Learn more about your ad choices. Visit https://podcastchoices.com/adchoices

In our lives, we are often confronted with moments of profound change - whether it's the result of circumstances beyond our control, or a deliberate choice to step into something new. During these pivotal transitions, it can be tempting to focus on pleasing others or trying to meet the expectations of our family, friends, and community. However, truly transformative growth requires the courage to choose ourselves and to trust our inner wisdom. Author and activist, Najwa Zebian, offers a powerful example of what it looks like to reclaim one's autonomy in the face of a lifetime of feeling out of place and unworthy. Her journey of self-discovery provides a roadmap for navigating change with conviction, self-compassion, and a commitment to living one's truth. Jen and Najwa explore:  The profound impact of emotional neglect and feeling out of place can deeply shape one's self-worth and choices later in life. Connecting with the power of language and self-expression can be a vital lifeline and pathway to healing. Making bold choices for oneself can be a necessary and courageous act of self-preservation. Allowing one's "world to revolve around you" and trusting your own inner wisdom is essential for navigating life's changes and uncertainties with conviction and self-compassion. Author Bio Dr. Najwa Zebian is a Lebanese-Canadian activist, author, speaker, and educator. Najwa began to write to connect with and help heal her first students, who were a group of young refugees. Through that effort with her students, she began a deep healing process for herself. She is the author of six books. She delivered the Ted Talk, “Finding Home Through Poetry.” She also recently launched a digital school called Soul Academy and a podcast called “In the Clear.” Her latest book is called “The Only Constant.” * * * Thought-Provoking Quotes: “Neglect isn't just about not getting your basic needs met. I think the most harmful neglect is not getting the things you do need." - Najwa Zebian "There was always this invitation to not allow myself to experience anger because it was a negative thing. But now I realize there's healthy anger; there's healthy resentment; and it's also healthy to project those feelings outwards. Otherwise, they're inside." - Najwa Zebian "I look at myself as a people pleaser — as somebody who's like, "I can't handle disappointing someone, I can't handle disappointing my family, I can't." But it got to a point where I was definitely willing to do that because I was so aware that continuing to live my life in a certain way meant that I was going to be suffering so much, and I wasn't willing to suffer in that way [anymore].” - Najwa Zebian Resources Mentioned in This Episode: Finding Home Through Poetry (Najwa’s Ted Talk) - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rNRygxe_8Ys Soul Academy (Najwa’s Digital School) - https://najwa-soul-academy.teachable.com/p/home In the Clear (Najwa’s Podcast) - https://najwazebian.com/podcasts The Only Constant by Najwa Zebian - https://najwazebian.com/the-only-constant Welcome Home by Najwa Zebian - https://najwazebian.com/welcome-home Hijab - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hijab Mind Platter by Najwa Zebian - https://najwazebian.com/mind-platter Guest’s Links: Najwa’s Website - https://najwazebian.com/ Najwa’s Instagram - https://www.instagram.com/najwazebian Najwa’s Tik Tok - https://www.tiktok.com/@najwazebian Najwa’s Facebook - https://www.facebook.com/najwazebian1 Najwa’s Twitter - https://twitter.com/najwazebian Najwa’s YouTube - https://www.youtube.com/najwazebian Connect with Jen! Jen’s website - https://jenhatmaker.com/ Jen’s Instagram - https://instagram.com/jenhatmaker Jen’s Twitter - https://twitter.com/jenHatmaker/ Jen’s Facebook - https://facebook.com/jenhatmaker Jen’s YouTube - https://www.youtube.com/user/JenHatmaker?sub_confirmation=1 The For the Love Podcast is a production of Four Eyes Media, presented by Audacy.  Four Eyes Media: https://www.iiiimedia.com/ To learn more about listener data and our privacy practices visit: https://www.audacyinc.com/privacy-policy Learn more about your ad choices. Visit https://podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Million Dollar Advice is a work and career advice podcast hosted by friends and colleagues Kim Lessing and Kate Arend. Together, Kim and Kate run Amy Poehler’s Paper Kite Productions and are very cool and good at their jobs. Each week, they will help live callers with their work-related dilemmas. Whether you have a question or you just like listening to other people’s problems, this show will change your life. If you have a problem at work or a career question big or small, write in to milliondollaradvicepod@gmail.com or leave a message on the Million Dollar Advice Hotline (888) 799-6327.  Kim and Kate can’t wait to give you some Million Dollar Advice! * * * Connect with Our Friends! Million Dollar Advice Podcast - https://podcasts.apple.com/gb/podcast/million-dollar-advice/id1737475094 Connect with Jen! Jen’s website - https://jenhatmaker.com/ Jen’s Instagram - https://instagram.com/jenhatmaker Jen’s Twitter - https://twitter.com/jenHatmaker/ Jen’s Facebook - https://facebook.com/jenhatmaker Jen’s YouTube - https://www.youtube.com/user/JenHatmaker?sub_confirmation=1 To learn more about listener data and our privacy practices visit: https://www.audacyinc.com/privacy-policy Learn more about your ad choices. Visit https://podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Making a change in our lives can feel like a big, all encompassing thing; and sometimes we avoid change because of that very notion. But here’s some good news: making meaningful change in our lives actually starts with one small choice at a time, and it doesn’t have to be overwhelming or hard. This week, we’ve got the inside scoop on how to form habits that you actually want to stick with and someone who is going to let us in on the simple secrets to real and lasting change. James Clear is the bestselling author of “Atomic Habits.” His approach to building sustainable habits has resonated with millions, helping people make positive changes and reach their full potential.  In this conversation, James shares personal stories and scientific principles to empower journeys of growth and transformation. Jen even shares her personal experience of choosing one small habit to do each day in the wake of her seismic divorce and how that choice radically affected the trajectory of her recovery.  Jen and James explore:  How to embrace a 1% improvement mindset - small, incremental changes compound over time and lead to meaningful results. The willingness to try different approaches and habits until you find what works for you Why we’ll be set up for success in the long run by having a toolbox of different strategies instead of adhering to specific “must-have” habits The importance of focusing on your identity and becoming the type of person you want to be, rather than just setting goals. No matter where you are in life —you have it within you to make meaningful and practical changes in your life. * * * Thought-Provoking Quotes: “There was a time in my life when I was forced to start small. So I was trying to find little wins; just something I could look at and be like 'Today was a good day.' I think that mindset ended up really helping me in later life." - James Clear "The whole world is going to emphasize your position and where you are. What I'm trying to emphasize is, "Are you getting 1% better? 1% worse? Is the arrow pointing up to the right, even if it's just a little bit? Or have you flatlined?" Because if you're on a good trajectory, all you need is time. All you need is patience. Time will magnify whatever you feed it." - James Clear “There is no one way to build better habits. There are many ways. My job is not to tell you how to do it. My job is to lay all the tools out on the table, rather than trying to tell you this is the way to build habits.” - James Clear “It's very easy, once you're listening to a conversation about habits or thinking about your own habits, to bite off more than you can chew, or start getting pulled in ten directions and be like; 'I'm going to change all ten of these things.' I think one good thing to remind yourself of is this energy will naturally extend into other areas of your life. So maybe take just one of those ten things and try to really master that.” - James Clear "There's this common advice that if something doesn't work, you should try, try, try again and I think the better advice is if something doesn't work, you should try, try, try differently." - James Clear Resources Mentioned in This Episode: Atomic Habits by James Clear: https://jamesclear.com/atomic-habits James Clear’s 3-2-1 Newsletter - https://jamesclear.com/3-2-1 Guest’s Links: James Clear’s Website - https://jamesclear.com/ James Clear’s Instagram - https://www.instagram.com/jamesclear/ James Clear’s Twitter - https://twitter.com/JamesClear James Clear’s Facebook - https://www.facebook.com/jamesclear/ Connect with Jen! Jen’s website - https://jenhatmaker.com/ Jen’s Instagram - https://instagram.com/jenhatmaker Jen’s Twitter - https://twitter.com/jenHatmaker/ Jen’s Facebook - https://facebook.com/jenhatmaker Jen’s YouTube - https://www.youtube.com/user/JenHatmaker The For the Love Podcast is a production of Four Eyes Media, presented by Audacy.  Four Eyes Media: https://www.iiiimedia.com/ To learn more about listener data and our privacy practices visit: https://www.audacyinc.com/privacy-policy Learn more about your ad choices. Visit https://podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Hey, book lovers! We’ve got something a little different straight coming to you from the Jen Hatmaker Book Club this month, and if you haven’t been a part of the conversation, we invite you to join us and all our fellow book nerds over at JenHatmakerBookClub.com. We’re sharing our March selection, with you, our dear listeners, and we hope it will inspire you and have you thinking a little differently about the lies we tell ourselves as women and how we can get to that next right thing for our lives. We’ve got the fabulous Jamie Kern Lima, the author of a new book called “Worthy.” If you don’t already know about Jamie, she’s the founder of IT Cosmetics and the author of another book, “Believe It,” which told the story of how she founded IT in her living room and how IT went on to be the largest luxury makeup brand in the country. But if that wasn’t enough, she eventually sold the company to makeup giant L’Oreal, making her the first female CEO of a L’Oreal brand in the company’s history. But her story is much more than a rags to riches adventure, which she continues in “Worthy”--it’s about how she overcame a fear of failure, the paralyzation of never feeling like she was enough, and a litany of rejection she faced through all phases of her career. “Worthy,” contains key lessons Jamie’s learned toward reversing lies we’ve been told and claiming new truths for ourselves, including: Why self love is important (and not selfish) and mirrors how deeply we can relate to and love others  You can never achieve enough to feel like you are enough; that comes with believing in yourself innately as who you are Your past mistakes do not define your present worth or determine your future As Jamie says, the moment we learn to believe we are worthy is the moment unhealthy relationships fall away, ideas are birthed, and art is shared with the world. She invites us to step into the freedom that happens when we embrace who we truly are and believe we are worthy of the good things that come our way. * * * Thought-Provoking Quotes: “If we don't think we're worthy of something, we will either stay stuck, find a way to sabotage it, or–the best case is–we’ll go for it and achieve it. But we'll still feel unfulfilled and still feel like we're not enough in the process. ” - Jamie Kern Lima “If you are someone that prides yourself in being selfless and being a giver, and you can't think about doing this for yourself, the greatest gift you can give people is to learn to love yourself, and to learn to believe you are worthy. Because the depth of love that you have for yourself will expand the depth of love you now have for them.” - Jamie Kern Lima “I do not care how many past mistakes, failures, or things that you feel are shameful or regrettable incidents [you have had]. None of them define your worth.” - Jamie Kern Lima “I believe your intuition is never wrong. I believe it either leads you to the next right step or the next right lesson. I have peace and trust in that.” - Jamie Kern Lima “The moment a person learns to believe she is worthy, that is the moment unhealthy relationships end or unhealthy friendships end or ideas are birthed or hands are raised and art is shared with the world.” - Jamie Kern Lima Guest’s Links: Jamie’s Website Jamie’s Instagram Jamie’s Facebook Jamie’s Twitter Jamie’s YouTube Books & Resources Mentioned in This Episode: Believe It by Jamie Kern Lima For the Love Podcast Episode ft. Jamie Kern Lima Worthy by Jamie Kern Lima For the Love Episode ft. Daniel Pink Feeding America (Food Bank Charity) “The Life You Want” Class (Taught by guest teacher Jamie Kern Lima) Connect with Jen! Jen’s website - http://jenhatmaker.com/  Jen’s Instagram - https://instagram.com/jenhatmaker Jen’s Twitter - https://twitter.com/jenHatmaker/  Jen’s Facebook - https://facebook.com/jenhatmaker Jen’s YouTube - https://www.youtube.com/user/JenHatmaker?sub_confirmation=1 To learn more about listener data and our privacy practices visit: https://www.audacyinc.com/privacy-policy Learn more about your ad choices. Visit https://podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Continuing in our series of Embracing Change, Jen talks with an elite athlete who found their life caving in, leaving themselves with no other choice than to flow with the transitions. In this candid conversation, Jen and Olympic figure skater Gracie Gold delve into Gracie's battles with mental health, disordered eating, and the intense pressures of elite athletics. Gracie’s story speaks to immense strength - navigating the insidious grip of an eating disorder that spanned longer than many of her close relationships. Gracie recounts how the illusion of control through restrictive eating eventually triggered a "nuclear meltdown," forcing her to confront the compounding traumas. Jen and Gracie explore: The toxic underbelly of perfectionism glorified in figure skating and its ties to disordered eating Society's tendency to stigmatize mental illness that doesn't fit a textbook definition The arduous, perpetual work of managing an eating disorder Reclaiming authenticity after realizing her projected "ice princess" persona was unsustainable With refreshing candor, Gracie shares how curiosity and embracing life's small joys enabled her to begin reconstructing an integrated identity beyond skating's rigid expectations. Her courage to openly discuss such profound struggles is a beacon of hope for anyone confronting their inner critic. * * * Thought-Provoking Quotes: "In most industries, to be a woman in this world, typically and historically, you were rewarded if you were smaller." - Gracie Gold "Instead of feeling anxious that I don't have a plan and I don't have an exact to-do list with everything on it checked off — instead of finding anxiety in that, I try to find freedom." - Gracie Gold "[I'm] continuing to put one foot in front of the other and being okay with not knowing where I'm going and that the universe will bring me where I'm meant to go." - Gracie Gold “I just thought I could push through [depression]--very type A. I just thought 'Oh I can push through, if I just work harder, or be better, then it'll go away.' Which it didn't.” - Gracie Gold Resources Mentioned in This Episode: 2014 U.S. Olympic Figure Skating Team (Gracie’s team won a bronze medal) - https://olympics.com/en/olympic-games/sochi-2014/athletes Outofshapeworthlessloser: A Memoir of Figure Skating, F*cking Up, and Figuring It Out - https://www.amazon.com/Outofshapeworthlessloser-Memoir-Figure-Skating-Figuring-ebook/dp/B0C4J8MLF6 Top Ten Female Figure Skaters of All Time - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_highest_scores_in_figure_skating Guest’s Links: Gracie’s Website - https://graciegold.figureskatersonline.com/ Gracie’s Facebook - https://www.facebook.com/GracieGold Gracie’s Twitter - https://twitter.com/GraceEGold Gracie’s Instagram - https://instagram.com/graciegold95 Connect with Jen! Jen’s website - https://jenhatmaker.com/ Jen’s Instagram - https://instagram.com/jenhatmaker Jen’s Twitter - https://twitter.com/jenHatmaker/ Jen’s Facebook - https://facebook.com/jenhatmaker Jen’s YouTube - https://www.youtube.com/user/JenHatmaker?sub_confirmation=1 The For the Love Podcast is a production of Four Eyes Media, presented by Audacy.  Four Eyes Media: https://www.iiiimedia.com/ To learn more about listener data and our privacy practices visit: https://www.audacyinc.com/privacy-policy Learn more about your ad choices. Visit https://podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Our new series of Embracing Change is a deep examination of all the different ways change shows up in our lives and all the ways we can respond to it. As Jen says in this interview, our guest today went through a “chosen change.” Hers was a transformation that felt inevitable after all the small, incremental posture changes made her ready for the leap to follow — a leap toward more sanity, more love, and more joy.  Joy Sullivan is a poet and community builder. Her new book “Instructions for Traveling West” is “for anyone flinging themselves into fresh starts.” She received a Masters in poetry from Miami University and has served as the poet-in-residence for the Wexner Center for the Arts. She joins the podcast today sharing her story of walking into the unknown. Through her unique viewpoint as a poet, she unlocks potent ways for us to trust our intuition and stay curious about what is scaring us. Jen and Joy touch on: The importance of embracing loneliness and stillness as opportunities for self-discovery and hearing one's true inner voice and callings. stories from Joy’s life that served as lessons for her to love herself more deeply Reclaiming selfhood by rupturing constrictive cultural and religious narratives, especially around womanhood and female identity For anyone feeling the tug to upend the inertia of their life and lean into evolution, this conversation is an inspiring guide for following one's deepest callings into new horizons. * * * Thought-Provoking Quotes: "I started driving west and I spent six weeks hiking in Sedona, being in the beautiful desert. During that time, I really had this sense of awakening and the sense of rupturing. It was that question like, ‘Am I doing work that matters?’ And I was so awake to my life again in that intense way that loneliness just pricks us alive. And I really began to grapple. I just looked at every aspect of my life and said, ‘Could there be more?’" - Joy Sullivan “I don't think it matters where you go, but to be able to give yourself an opportunity to really reinvent, that's the good stuff.” - Joy Sullivan "I didn't have the life that I sort of felt like I always should have had based on what a woman was supposed to get — a husband, kids, the stability of the white picket fence, etc. And what's been interesting is when I sort of recreated or fractured some of those stories culturally and religiously that I had been given, my life just expanded into possibility because it had never occurred to me that a woman could be really, really happy if she didn't choose those things." - Joy Sullivan “Poetry is the only place that can hold the unsayable. It's the only space we have that holds that which cannot be spoken in any other art form. All the ache, all the beauty, all the impossibility of being alive; that's what poems are for.” - Joy Sullivan Resources Mentioned in This Episode: Sustenance (A Community of Poets and Writers founded by Joy Sullivan) - https://joysullivanpoet.com/sustenance Necessary Salt (Joy Sullivan’s Substack Blog) - https://joysullivan.substack.com/ Instructions For Traveling West by Joy Sullivan (A book of poems coming April 9, 2024) - https://www.penguinrandomhouse.com/books/734503/instructions-for-traveling-west-by-joy-sullivan/ Guest’s Links: Joy’s Website - https://joysullivanpoet.com/ Joy’s Twitter - https://twitter.com/Joy_E_Sullivan Joy’s Instagram - https://www.instagram.com/joysullivanpoet/ Connect with Jen! Jen’s Website - https://jenhatmaker.com/ Jen’s Instagram - https://instagram.com/jenhatmaker Jen’s Twitter - https://twitter.com/jenHatmaker/ Jen’s Facebook - https://facebook.com/jenhatmaker Jen’s YouTube - https://www.youtube.com/user/JenHatmaker?sub_confirmation=1 The For the Love Podcast is a production of Four Eyes Media, presented by Audacy.  Four Eyes Media: https://www.iiiimedia.com/ To learn more about listener data and our privacy practices visit: https://www.audacyinc.com/privacy-policy Learn more about your ad choices. Visit https://podcastchoices.com/adchoices

We’re finishing up our For the Love of Wonderful You series intentionally with a deep breath and a gentle word of encouragement. In this episode, even though we are talking about trauma, critical inner voices, and the arduous process of grief, Jen and her guest unwind these topics in the most gentle and loving way.  Kobe Campbell is an award-winning therapist who specializes in helping people process grief and trauma in a way that unearths true empowerment. Hidden beneath the clamor of everyday life, the voices of our inner critic lie in wait to echo our grief. These voices, though silent to others, can roar deafeningly within us — shaping our perceptions, beliefs, and actions. Kobe’s suggestions of journal “prompts” help guide our own trauma excavation process, and her gentle but challenging questions further that sometimes painful work, while steering us toward self compassion.  Jen and Kobe touch on:  The understanding that grief can take a lot of time to process; which can ultimately lead to wisdom and true empowerment A working definition of trauma and that trauma is highly personal and contextual How we can feel brave enough to examine the inner critical voice and discern where it’s coming from Acknowledging the cultural pressure to live at an unsustainable pace that doesn’t allow space or time to heal If you ever needed permission to grieve or drop the unrelenting pace of your life, then this is the invitation. * * * Thought-Provoking Quotes: “I love to tell people that trauma is not what happened to you. It's about how it affected you. And those effects can live in our present, even if the moment is in the past. I help people parse through that in creative ways with poems, quick words, and thoughts from my kitchen right after I'm done with the session.” - Kobe Campbell “I think that many of us have not been given the space to grieve long enough to know what genuine and internal empowerment feels like, and we keep trying to give ourselves that empowerment from the outside. We keep trying to grasp motivation from somewhere.” - Kobe Campbell "Trauma can be acute, meaning it can be a moment, or trauma can be chronic, meaning it could be several moments over time. And I like to give the example that trauma can be a boulder or it could be pebbles. But the reality is–it doesn't matter. There is no big 'T' trauma and little 't' trauma because, at the end of the day, all those pebbles amass to the size of a boulder anyway. It's just being accumulated over time." - Kobe Campbell "The person who holds the wound holds the wisdom. If we lock away that version of us that is deeply wounded and wants to cry for three months, then we're also locking away the wisdom of those situations that we need for our present." - Kobe Campbell "My humanity is good. God created it good. And if I believed that I was good for just existing as I am, how would I treat myself?" - Kobe Campbell Resources Mentioned in This Episode: Why Am I Like This? How to Break Cycles, Heal From Trauma, and Restore Your Faith by Kobe Campbell Journal Prompt on Kobe’s Instagram Brain Neuro Coupling I Feel Like Woman by Shania Twain on Spotify Minaa B. Website (Therapist and Colleague of Kobe’s) I Know Why the Caged Bird Sings by Maya Angelou Michell C. Clark Instagram Guest’s Links: Kobe’s Website Kobe’s Facebook Kobe’s Twitter Kobe’s Instagram Kobe’s TikTok Kobe’s YouTube Connect with Jen! Jen’s website Jen’s Instagram Jen’s Twitter Jen’s Facebook Jen’s YouTube  The For the Love Podcast is a production of Four Eyes Media, presented by Audacy.  Four Eyes Media: https://www.iiiimedia.com/ To learn more about listener data and our privacy practices visit: https://www.audacyinc.com/privacy-policy Learn more about your ad choices. Visit https://podcastchoices.com/adchoices

We’ve got someone on the show this week who makes it her business to show us exactly how wonderful we as women are–just as we are! She is the queen of keeping it real, a hilariously honest actress, standup comedian, and the Instagram star who has become our go-to for a belly laugh when the world's expectations just seem a tad too polished–it’s Celeste Barber! If you haven’t seen Celeste on her Instagram account, get on over there and join the nearly 10 million people who are clamoring for her content each week (and if you have any doubt, she won the “Funniest Lady on Instagram Award” back in 2017). She’s also a successful standup comedian who sold out three seasons of her “Challenge Accepted” Tour in the US, and has a Netflix Special (“Fine, Thanks”) and a dramatic comedy series that we just love called “Wellmania.”   Jen and Celeste get into it about:  The riotous juggle Celeste manages by shining a light on the quirks of the beauty industry, all while paving her own extraordinary path.  Celeste opens up about the nuanced battles of being valued for her sharp mind and quicker wit in a scene often unforgiving to women. Celeste and Jen share about the beautiful chaos of balancing a career with being a superhero mom (or at least trying to be).  This episode is more than just laughs (though, swear, you'll have plenty); it's a pat on the back for every one of us out here, doing the thing, being utterly magnificent in our complexity. Here’s to celebrating the splendid and wonderful you! * * * Thought-Provoking Quotes: “I would like to live one day without anxiety. I would also like to be a Janet Jackson backup dancer. That's all I ask for.” - Celeste Barber “I take my hat off to women in general, just always and forever. "The mothers who work in the day and then go home and be excellent mothers at night, and they go back to work in the day and they come home and they're excellent mothers. How do they do that?” - Celeste Barber “With women, [being] funny or smart or boundary-pushing is fine as an idea, but [we're asked] 'can you be safe and pretty because that's just easier for us.' And so shifting that lens, the thing is, we're multifaceted. There are so many different types of things to celebrate within women." - Celeste Barber Resources Mentioned in This Episode: Celeste Barber: Challenge Accepted (Celeste’s 2019 Comedy Special) Celeste Barber: Fine, Thanks (Celeste’s 2023 Comedy Special) All Saints (Medical Drama that got Celeste her start) Wellmania (2023 Netflix Series Starring Celeste) Celeste Barber: Backup Dancer Tour Celeste Barber and Tom Ford Collab Celeste will be in Dallas June 10th at the Majestic Theatre, in Austin June 13th at the Paramount Theatre, and in Houston June 14th at 713 Music Hall Guest’s Links: Celeste’s Website Celeste’s Instagram Celeste’s Facebook Celeste’s Twitter Celeste’s YouTube Channel Connect with Jen! Jen’s website Jen’s Instagram Jen’s Twitter Jen’s Facebook Jen’s YouTube  The For the Love Podcast is a production of Four Eyes Media, presented by Audacy.   Visit Four Eyes Media: https://www.iiiimedia.com/ To learn more about listener data and our privacy practices visit: https://www.audacyinc.com/privacy-policy Learn more about your ad choices. Visit https://podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Here’s a little bonus for all our listeners this week–a preview from one of our fellow Audcacy Network podcasts, We Can Do Hard Things! Life is freaking hard. We are all doing hard things every single day – things like loving and losing; caring for children and parents; forging and ending friendships; battling addiction, illness, and loneliness; struggling in our jobs, our marriages, and our divorces; setting boundaries; and fighting for equality, purpose, freedom, joy, and peace. On We Can Do Hard Things, Glennon Doyle, author of UNTAMED; her wife Abby Wambach; and her sister Amanda Doyle do the only thing they’ve found that has ever made life easier: Drop the fake and talk honestly about the hard things including sex, gender, parenting, blended families, bodies, anxiety, addiction, justice, boundaries, fun, quitting, overwhelm . . . all of it. We laugh and cry and help each other carry the hard so we can all live a little bit lighter and braver, free-er, less alone.  Enjoy this special excerpt from We Can Do Hard Things! * * * Connect with Our Friends! We Can Do Hard Things Podcast Nadia Bolz-Weber Connect with Jen! Jen’s website Jen’s Instagram Jen’s Twitter Jen’s Facebook Jen’s YouTube To learn more about listener data and our privacy practices visit: https://www.audacyinc.com/privacy-policy Learn more about your ad choices. Visit https://podcastchoices.com/adchoices

It’s the start of a new series, For The Love of Wonderful You! Spring is arriving and as the winter slumber fades away, many of us are likely plunging into a frantic pace of commitments and To Do lists. But we want to take a minute (or approximately 45-mins to an hour) to create a moment where we can punch the brakes a little. Let’s tell that inner taskmaster to relax; and instead, reflect on finding value in who we are in this moment, and how worthy we are just as we are.  Jen’s amazing conversation partner today is Amanda Doyle. Amanda is many amazing things but you may know her first and foremost as “Sister” on the We Can Do Hard Things Podcast with Glennon Doyle and Abby Wambach. She’s also part of the leadership team at Together Rising, the amazing non-profit that has raised over $50 million dollars and given it away to people all over the world who need it most. Amanda has been a longtime social justice advocate and she uses that knowledge to break down deep truths and complex social issues in all her conversations. Today, she reminds us that spending the energy to stay vulnerable in our relationships will always pay out. In this episode Jen and Amanda talk about: The struggle to be vulnerable and truly open up versus managing perceptions and staying in control in relationships How Amanda chose sobriety and the surprising clarity that emerged in her marriage, especially during the pandemic Jen’s journey to understanding herself and her avoidant tendencies in the aftermath of her divorce The profound impact of the "love letter" exercise guided by Liz Gilbert, where “Love's voice” urged Amanda to stop keeping score in life * * * Thought-Provoking Quotes: “A relationship has to have some equilibrium. The farther you go this way, the more the other person has to go the other way. What I have learned is that no one wants to be in those places.” - Amanda Doyle "What I have recently realized is that many people who either view themselves or are viewed in their relationships as control freaks; actually what they want the most is to not be in control of everything. They feel like they have to be in control of everything, because that is the way that they show their love is by taking care of things. But what they want more than anything else is for someone to step up and be like, 'I got this, I got you. You don't have to be in control of this.'" - Amanda Doyle “You are so fixated on the score of this life, but there is no score except the one in your head. You are exhausting yourself to death, trying to keep a score and figure out where you've won, and figure out where other people have disappointed you and slighted you and not met your expectations. But the score is fiction. We're not being scored." - Amanda Doyle “We think when we're giving up alcohol, we're giving up fun. And that's with good reason. It's like fully marketed--growing up, it's part of the narrative; anything that is fun also includes alcohol. But then I had the enormous blessing of being so close to Abby and Glennon's life and seeing that they were the most fun people with the most delightful, satisfying lives of anyone else I know. And none of that included alcohol." - Amanda Doyle Resources Mentioned in This Episode: We Can Do Hard Things with Glennon Doyle For the Love Podcast Episode ft. Glennon Doyle For the Love Podcast Episode ft. Abby Wambach For the Love Podcast Enneagram Threes Episode ft. Lisa Whelchel Untamed by Glennon Doyle We Can Do Hard Thing Episode ft. Liz Gilbert Letters From Love with Liz Gilbert (Substack) For the Love Podcast Episode ft. Sarah Bessey Guest’s Links: Together Rising Website Amanda’s Twitter Together Rising Facebook Together Rising Instagram Connect with Jen! Jen’s website Jen’s Instagram Jen’s Twitter Jen’s Facebook Jen’s YouTube  The For the Love Podcast is a production of Four Eyes Media, presented by Audacy.  Four Eyes Media: https://www.iiiimedia.com/ To learn more about listener data and our privacy practices visit: https://www.audacyinc.com/privacy-policy Learn more about your ad choices. Visit https://podcastchoices.com/adchoices

For this month’s book club pick, we are headed into 1970’s Montgomery, Alabama. Based on a true story, Take My Hand by Dolen Perkins-Valdez is an unflinching exploration of accountability and redemption through an era that was plagued with bias and coercion. The central character, Civil Townsend, is a complicated heroine fresh out of nursing school with a deep desire to make a difference in her Black community at the Montgomery Family Planning Clinic. During her first week on the job, Civil encounters two young girls who have their agency usurped by the current government authority which mandates that because they Black, poor, and disabled, the girls’ ability to have children should be curbed. Years later, Civil Townsend must reconcile her role and complicity in a story that must not be forgotten.What unfolds is a shocking and heartbreaking expose of how girls and women have had their agency taken away in ways that echo for generations.  Inspired by true events, Dolen recounts her research process and how she wanted to write “bruised characters” that evoke outrage and empathy. Jen and Dolen dive into Dolen’s history as a writer, the context of what was happening in 1973 when the case that this story is based broke into the public sphere, and all the themes of this book that make it impossible to put down. This is a story that must not be forgotten and Dolen writes it so you won’t ever forget.    * * * Guest’s Links: Dolen’s Website Dolen’s Facebook Dolen’s Twitter Dolen’s Instagram Books & Resources Mentioned in This Episode: Take My Hand by Dolen Perkins-Valdez Balm by Dolen Perkins-Valdez Wench by Dolen Perkins-Valdez Relp v. Weinberger Case Roe v. Wade Case Brotherless Night by V. V. Ganeshananthan Symphony of Secrets by Brendan Slocumb Happiness Falls by Angie Kim Connect with Jen! Jen’s website - http://jenhatmaker.com/  Jen’s Instagram - https://instagram.com/jenhatmaker Jen’s Twitter - https://twitter.com/jenHatmaker/  Jen’s Facebook - https://facebook.com/jenhatmaker Jen’s YouTube - https://www.youtube.com/user/JenHatmaker?sub_confirmation=1 The For the Love Podcast is a production of Four Eyes Media, presented by Audacy.  Four Eyes Media: https://www.iiiimedia.com/ To learn more about listener data and our privacy practices visit: https://www.audacyinc.com/privacy-policy Learn more about your ad choices. Visit https://podcastchoices.com/adchoices

We’re wrapping up our series featuring Black Trailblazers, and we couldn’t be more thrilled to have another guest who has broken barriers and basically created their own space as part of the national conversation, becoming the first black woman to anchor a cable primetime show. You may know her from her seat as a political analyst on MSNBC, or as the host of her own show, The ReidOut. It’s the amazing Joy Reid, everyone! Joy is a Harvard grad with a degree in visual and environmental studies and a concentration in documentary film. She also worked on the Florida branch of the Obama campaign. Her political writing prowess has landed her columns and articles everywhere; The New York Times, The New Republic, The Guardian, The Daily Beast, and The New Yorker, to name a few. PLUS she has a new book coming out that she gives us a special peek into; it’s the important and moving story of slain Civil rights pioneer Medgar Evers and his wife Myrlie, also an activist. It's not every day we get to talk to someone who brings the goods about so many profound topics—civil rights, the fight for reproductive rights, immigration issues, the sacrifice for equality—and she and Jen shy away from none of them here. Joy’s passion for calling out injustice and her unwavering belief that we all hold the keys to preserving our rights and our freedoms gives us a reason to believe that we all can be trailblazers toward sparking change in our world. * * * Thought-Provoking Quotes: “I'm very conscious of the fact that I'm the person that looks like the young black girls who come up to me, and it makes me feel very proud because I can represent. You really can only be what you can see.” - Joy Reid “The goal is when you get in the door, just pop it open. Get it open and let more people in. Diversity and equity and inclusion, they’ve become bad words. But they actually just mean we’re making America more what it was meant to be.” - Joy Reid “The immigrants who people are fighting hardest against are the people who are coming from Guatemala and El Salvador. They're also coming from China and Ukraine at this point. All they want to do is work. They are probably the hardest working people in America.” - Joy Reid “We keep trying to replace cheap labor. America could change that by paying people living wages. But Americans don't want to do that. We love the cheap labor because we love the cheap chicken sandwiches.” - Joy Reid “We have to save ourselves not just by voting for president, but by choosing the Senate in a different way, by choosing a different House of Representatives, by choosing different state legislatures, different governors. You need to start choosing not based on the party you're loyal to and the jersey you put on at age 18 when you became a Republican or a Democrat. You need to choose based on who's going to let you be free.” - Joy Reid Joy’s Links: The ReidOut - Joy’s show on MSNBC Joy Reid - Instagram Joy Reid - Facebook Joy Reid - X (Twitter) Books & Resources Mentioned in This Episode: The Man Who Sold America Trump And The Unraveling of The American Story - book by Joy Reid Medgar and Myrlie: Medgar Evers and the Love Story That Wakened America - book by Joy Reid T.R.M. Howard - Black Physician Who Created a System of Affordable Health Care Legislation in Georgia Regarding a Six Week Abortion Ban Meet the Press News Show Gwen Ifill - American Journalist Medgar & Myrlie Evers - Civil Rights Pioneers Queen & Slim - Film Manning Marable - Professor African American Studies/Columbia University Emmitt Till’s Photo in Jet Magazine Sharon McMahon Instagram Connect with Jen! Jen’s website Jen’s Instagram Jen’s Twitter Jen’s Facebook Jen’s YouTube To learn more about listener data and our privacy practices visit: https://www.audacyinc.com/privacy-policy Learn more about your ad choices. Visit https://podcastchoices.com/adchoices

In this week’s episode in our Black Trailblazer’s series, Jen may have leveraged her connections, and we couldn’t be more thrilled that she did. We’re excited to have a wonderful sit down with the amazing Jerrie Merritt (who just happens to be Jen’s boyfriend Tyler’s mother–and a Black trailblazer in every sense of the word). In addition to being Tyler’s mom, Jerrie’s currently the Senior VP of Community Development at the Bank of Nevada in Las Vegas. Her banking career spans 40 plus years, where her job now is discerning funding for community development projects in the city of Las Vegas (as she puts it; “I’m the only person at the bank who’s actually giving money away!”). She’s been the board president of the Rape Crisis Center, The Urban Financial Services Coalition, and the Chamber of Commerce in Las Vegas. She even recently got to work with the NFL when the Super Bowl took place in Las Vegas to lead the dispersion of funds they made available to 14 worthy organizations, which she chose. In 2021, Jerrie received an actual Trailblazer Award, presented by the National Coalition of 100 Black Women from the Las Vegas Chapter. Jerrie takes us back to where it all began; in a tiny town called Eutaw, Alabama, where Jerrie didn’t see much modeled to her in the way of dreaming of who she could be, but through generosity of spirit and a willingness to take a chance, she started blazing her trail. It wasn’t without its challenges, coming up during a time where women–especially black women–were often shunned in business and leadership settings. Despite this, Jerrie paved a way, and in turn is paving a way for those coming up behind her. Her infectious courage, intertwined with a humility that hits you right in the feels—will incite a fire with all of us to leave our own indelible mark on this wild, beautiful world. * * * Thought-Provoking Quotes: “Always pursue your dreams because there is nothing that you as a woman, and especially as a black woman, cannot accomplish if you work at it.” - Jerrie Merritt “I'm blessed. I can't think of one thing that I have done in my career to get me here today that I had no control over. I always worked at trying to make sure that I was giving back [to the community] and to make sure that I made a difference, no matter what it was. From being a teller to being a regional president of a bank, I always wanted to do my best.” - Jerrie Merritt “My mom was a teenager when I was born. So I was raised between my mother's mother and my father's mother. Those two women gave me a foundation that made me who I am today.” “Now that I look back, I think I was so driven. I think that I didn’t know anything better than to expect that I deserved; what I saw everyone else have. I think if I took a moment and thought about it. I probably would not be here today. I think back to my mother and my grandmothers who always talked about, 'You can do better, you can do better.' That's what I always heard so I always knew that I could do better.” - Jerrie Merritt “I went into community development from actually being a regional president. I was only [at the company] six months before I realized that this was something I enjoyed. That was because I was the only person in the bank that was giving away money.” - Jerrie Merritt “When I enjoy what I do as much as I do, and at the same time I'm giving back in areas that I probably would give back to even if I didn't get paid to do it--that's how I got here.” - Jerrie Merritt Resources Mentioned in This Episode: National Coalition of 100 Black Women, Vegas Chapter I Always Wanted to Be Somebody by Altea Gibson NFL Grant Programs Guest’s Links: Jerrie’s Website Jerrie’s Facebook Connect with Jen! Jen’s website Jen’s Instagram Jen’s Twitter Jen’s Facebook Jen’s YouTube  The For the Love Podcast is a production of Four Eyes Media, presented by Audacy.  Four Eyes Media: https://www.iiiimedia.com/ To learn more about listener data and our privacy practices visit: https://www.audacyinc.com/privacy-policy Learn more about your ad choices. Visit https://podcastchoices.com/adchoices

The world is on fire, and finding unexpected pathways that make sense of the world are hard won these days. And the people we look to, whether it’s through our socials, or the books we read, or even the news shows we watch, can do a lot to help ease us into whatever new madness faces us each morning. One of the people so many of us look to each day does an amazing job of just that; bringing grace, compassion and humor to her reporting each morning as part of the ‘Today’ Show. We’ve got Savannah Guthrie on the pod in this special bonus episode! Savannah’s as good and kind in person as you would think she is when watching her on the hosting couch for ‘Today.’ She and Jen discuss the unexpected path to her career in journalism–including taking a job at a station that closed two weeks after she started and her hard turn from journalism to go into law school. As she describes it, she ultimately “broke up” with the judge she was to start a clerkship with because she just couldn’t turn away from her dream of being a television journalist. Lucky for us!   From the reporting of incredibly heartbreaking stories (she sadly reveals she’s covered 10 school shootings in just one year) to bringing in levity (roller skating with Martha Stewart, anyone?) Savannah gives us the nitty gritty, decidedly unglamourous side of being a journalist, and the joys that sneak in all along the way. The deeper story is all contained in the release of her first book, “What God Mostly Does,” where she also shares a bigger picture look at her faith and convictions, and where she sees God show up all along the way. *** Thought-Provoking Quotes: “The 'Today' Show is an incredible institution. So to be a part of it for even one moment, I think we all kind of feel like momentary caretakers. The place is bigger than any individual. It's not just the people you see on TV. It's all the people behind the scenes.” - Savannah Guthrie “It's taken a long time to be comfortable in my own skin because when you're a Washington correspondent, it's so hardcore. And then you come to the 'Today' Show and you do real news interviews; you're interviewing the President or the Secretary of State or a grieving victim. It's real news. It's hard news. But then at 8:30, you might be roller skating with Martha Stewart on an elephant, you know?" - Savannah Guthrie “I never want to have thick skin, even though it hurts to not have thick skin. I want to have humanity. I want [the news] to touch me. But I'm not going to cry and carry on on air because I don't want to be a distraction. I'm supposed to be a professional, so it's just trying to thread that needle, it's just the deep resource of faith that has saved me time and time again in my private life and my professional life.” - Savannah Guthrie “I'm not writing [my book] from some mountain top where I figured it all out. I'm writing it from the depths. I'm writing it as the person who actually needs to read this book over and over again. Every day I have to pull myself out of the doldrums and remind myself; to keep going. No one's perfect.” - Savannah Guthrie ​​"God means something to a lot of people, and that is so exciting and heartening and beautiful. I hope this may spark a deeper conversation with a friend. Because when we really bond over those things, it's so meaningful; it's like our soul is just thirsting for that friendship and love." - Savannah Guthrie Resources: Mostly What God Does book by Savannah Guthrie Savannah’s Interview with Michael Jackson’s Doctor Savannah Reporting at Robb Elementary School after the Uvalde School Shooting Savannah Reporting the Departure of ‘Today’s” Matt Lauer ‘Today’ Show segment with Martha Stewart Guest Links: Instagram  Twitter Facebook Connect with Jen! Jen’s website Jen’s Instagram Jen’s Twitter Jen’s Facebook Jen’s YouTube The For the Love Podcast is a production of Four Eyes Media, presented by Audacy.  Four Eyes Media: https://www.iiiimedia.com/ To learn more about listener data and our privacy practices visit: https://www.audacyinc.com/privacy-policy Learn more about your ad choices. Visit https://podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Women's sports are having a major moment right now, with basketball superstars like A'ja Wilson leading the charge. Considered one of the best WNBA players to ever grace the court, A'ja is using her towering influence to encourage not only young black girls, but all women who have felt the need to change who they are to fit in. A’ja fought to be herself every step of the way in her journey of becoming a G.O.A.T. in the WNBA.  In this uplifting conversation, A'ja Wilson opens up about the challenges she faced as a young black woman trying to be her authentic self. From an anecdote about confronting racism in 4th grade to the influential women who instilled self-love during her journey to the top, A'ja shares her playbook for empowerment with raw honesty. She discusses the motivation behind writing her new book "Dear Black Girls" and the importance of defining yourself instead of letting others do it for you. If you've ever felt the need to shrink yourself to fit in or been made to feel "other," A'ja's wisdom will inspire you to embrace all that makes you beautifully unique. * * * Thought-Provoking Quotes: “I think the biggest thing that is surprising to me is really how much work we put in. Other people see the end results as basic glory. They see that and they're like, 'Oh my God, they make it look flawless and just easy. But the most surprising thing is how many times we cry together, how many times we pray together, how many times we just come into the gym. It's like we don't have it, but we still find a way to dig it out.” - A’ja Wilson “I think the biggest thing I always like to say is (I even had it on my shoes); if you can see her you could be her.” - A’ja Wilson “The self-accountability that [my role models] instilled in me allows me to (instill) that into someone else. I can be that leader for my teammates and hold them accountable because I want you all to do the same for me” - A’ja Wilson “Young girls all the time are like, ‘What do I need to do to do this?’ I'm like, ‘Girl, just keep doing what you're doing. That's your path. I don't want you to think your path is going to look like mine.’ I think once you get past that, that's when that self-worth comes in. That's when you're like, ‘Okay, I'm good at where I am.’” - A’ja Wilson Resources Mentioned in This Episode: Dear Black Girls: How to Be True to You Dawn Staley The Players’ Tribune Guest’s Links: A’ja’s Website A’ja’s Facebook A’ja’s Twitter A’ja’s Instagram Connect with Jen! Jen’s website Jen’s Instagram Jen’s Twitter Jen’s Facebook Jen’s YouTube  The For the Love Podcast is a production of Four Eyes Media, presented by Audacy.  Four Eyes Media: https://www.iiiimedia.com/ To learn more about listener data and our privacy practices visit: https://www.audacyinc.com/privacy-policy Learn more about your ad choices. Visit https://podcastchoices.com/adchoices

As we close out our For the Love of Facing Your Fears series, we're diving headfirst into a topic that we will all face at one point in our lives (hopefully later than sooner); our very own expiration dates. It’s one of humanity’s most universal yet daunting fears, and we’ve got a compassionate and experienced guide to walk us through the kinds of things we might wonder about, and the beautiful unexpected moments that can accompany our final days. Hadley Vlahos is a hospice nurse whose life experiences and work have provided her with profound insights into the final chapter of our lives. Hadley opens up about her personal journey through struggles and grief, her entry into nursing as a calling, and her perspectives on the beauty that can be found even in our final moments. Her book, "The In-Between: Unforgettable Encounters During Life's Final Moments," encapsulates powerful stories from the bedside of the dying, some of which she shares with us, including the tranquility of the in-between and the serendipitous moments bringing peace to those passing. With over 1.4 million followers captivated by her TikTok narratives, Hadley’s perspective takes the edge off the many worries we may have about the end-of-life process. Join us for a truly poignant exchange that affirms life's beauty—and its beautiful conclusion. * * * Thought-Provoking Quotes: “Most people think [death] is very sudden. There was a recent study that over 80% of what we're shown on TV is very violent and sudden. In reality, the way I compare it is to birth; just like how our bodies know how to give birth and they know how to grow a baby, the majority of time with death, our bodies do know how to die.” - Hadley Vlahos “For someone to say, ‘You know what, I'm going to I'm going to go home and I'm going to be with my family and I would like to remain comfortable.’ I think that there's a lot of power in that, and I don't see it as giving up at all. I see it as taking your fate into your own hands.” - Hadley Vlahos “I wish more people would just talk to each other about the end. Surprisingly, even though someone's in hospice, I still see a lot of hesitancy to talk about the end. When they can do that, I find that patients feel a lot more peace around the end and what is coming.” - Hadley Vlahos “What am I doing today that I would be excited to be telling my hospice nurse about one day? And that has given me an incredible drive and passion for life that I just totally didn't expect.” - Hadley Vlahos Resources Mentioned in This Episode: The In-Between: Unforgettable encounters during life’s final moments by Hadley Vlahos Five Wishes Guest’s Links: Hadley’s Website Hadley’s Instagram Hadley’s Facebook Hadley’s Twitter Hadley’s TikTok Connect with Jen! Jen’s website Jen’s Instagram Jen’s Twitter Jen’s Facebook Jen’s YouTube The For the Love Podcast is a production of Four Eyes Media, presented by Audacy.  Four Eyes Media: https://www.iiiimedia.com/ To learn more about listener data and our privacy practices visit: https://www.audacyinc.com/privacy-policy Learn more about your ad choices. Visit https://podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Calling all book lovers, we’ve got another great entry in the Jen Hatmaker Book Club this month, and we’ve also got a good friend of Jen’s sitting in the author’s seat–none other than the amazing Kate Bowler. Kate walks us through her highly personal medical journey, as told through No Cure For Being Human and Other Truths. Kate shares the profound realization that her life depended on becoming an empowered participant in her healthcare rather than a passive recipient. As she waded through her stage 4 cancer diagnosis, the endless visits to the doctors, along with many tests and treatments, she reflected on how her willingness to be initially compliant toward the process led to a delayed choice of asserting herself toward receiving better care and choices toward her treatment. Kate and Jen also delve into the cultural fabric of American aggressive individualism, which preaches that achievements are solitary pursuits and any failure is a personal shortcoming. In a world where visible piety and the power of positive thinking are often conflated with divine approval, they dissect the harmful myths that set us up for inevitable disillusionment. With unguarded honesty, Kate sheds light on how the pressure to continuously climb the ladder of success can blind us to the presence of divine companionship in our darkest times. * * * Guest’s Links: Kate’s Website Kate’s Facebook Kate’s Twitter Kate’s Instagram Books & Resources Mentioned in This Episode: Bonus Series: Quarantine Queens and Kings ft. Kate Bowler Everything Happens with Kate Bowler Blessed: A History of The American Prosperity Gospel by Kate Bowler No Cure for Being Human (And Other Truths I Need to Hear) Focus on the Family Jen’s Evolving Faith Sermon Run Towards the Danger by Sarah Polley Women Talking Acceptance: A Memoir by Emi Nietfeld Tell Me Everything: A Memoir by Minka Kelly Connect with Jen! Jen’s website - http://jenhatmaker.com/  Jen’s Instagram - https://instagram.com/jenhatmaker Jen’s Twitter - https://twitter.com/jenHatmaker/  Jen’s Facebook - https://facebook.com/jenhatmaker Jen’s YouTube - https://www.youtube.com/user/JenHatmaker?sub_confirmation=1 To learn more about listener data and our privacy practices visit: https://www.audacyinc.com/privacy-policy Learn more about your ad choices. Visit https://podcastchoices.com/adchoices

We’ve got another empowering episode in our Facing Your Fears series, and boy, do we have a fear that hits close to home for a lot of us – confronting those tough conversations we'd rather dance around than dive into. If the thought of confrontation has you squirming in your seat, you’re in good company. But what if we flipped the script and viewed these moments of truth-telling as acts of honor, steps towards healing and improvement? Jen invites the insightful Dr. Rick Hanson, celebrated psychologist, acclaimed author, and speaker extraordinaire, to dissect our dread of difficult chats. Dr. Hanson is on a mission to transform confrontation into a finely honed skill that fosters lasting well-being and better relationships. His wisdom will not only challenge your perceptions but provide you with the practical tools to embrace these crucial conversations with confidence. Don't miss out on this transformative discussion that could redefine how you approach confrontation, making your connections healthier, and you, happier. * * * Thought-Provoking Quotes: “Research shows that relationships are made from interactions. The gradual weight of interactions, for better or worse, over time shapes the relationship, and interactions are built from little turn-taking back and forth.” - Dr. Rick Hanson “It's so important, these foundations to care for yourself deep down. What are your aims in your relationships, and can you build up your sense that you deserve people to treat you well? That's good. If you have choices and they don't treat you well, it's your right to shrink the size of the relationship.” - Dr. Rick Hanson “[When communicating with difficult people] know what you want. Then, as much as you can, try to boil it down to something you can ask for that's clear and specific if that's what you really want. Then second, ask for it. Find a way to say what you want.” - Dr. Rick Hanson “If you're going to have that conflict, get prepared; talk about it with some people. Get some advice. Write out keywords or sentences or phrases or just kind of work out a rough draft to clarify things.” - Dr. Rick Hanson“We don't have total control over the love that we receive. However, we do have control over the compassion, kindness, friendliness, respect, and love that we flow outward. So getting in touch with the heart is a neurologically, and biologically grounded way to help yourself feel less scared before you go into confrontation.” - Dr. Rick Hanson “Interactions often go sideways when they speed up. Simply, notice in your mind when you start accelerating and you start talking faster. You must deliberately slow down, sit back, and exhale.” - Dr. Rick Hanson Resources Mentioned in This Episode: Mother Nurture by Dr. Rick Hanson Nonviolent Communication by Marshall B. Rosenberg PhD and Deepak Chopra Making Great Relationships by Dr. Rick Hanson Guest’s Links: Dr. Hanson’s Website Dr. Hanson’s Facebook Dr. Hanson’s Twitter Dr. Hanson’s Instagram Connect with Jen! Jen’s website  Jen’s Instagram Jen’s Twitter Jen’s Facebook Jen’s YouTube The For the Love Podcast is a production of Four Eyes Media, presented by Audacy.  Four Eyes Media: https://www.iiiimedia.com/ To learn more about listener data and our privacy practices visit: https://www.audacyinc.com/privacy-policy Learn more about your ad choices. Visit https://podcastchoices.com/adchoices

As we continue our series on facing our fears, we introduce a fear that many of us may not talk about comfortably, but in reality, we are all facing; the fact that we are aging. In case this is something that moves you into a state of deep denial, or perhaps you are employing a world of efforts (including for-profit products and practices) to stave off the inevitable progression, or even if you are just taking it all in stride, we all are subject to what the world at large has to say about it and—mostly–it’s not positive. A pervasive ageist attitude infiltrates the media we consume, our own friend groups, and even what we tell ourselves consciously and subconsciously about aging. We come by it naturally, though–with deeply ingrained stereotypes and discriminatory practices that extend everywhere from the workplace to the bedroom. Our guest this week shares how she went from being an apprehensive boomer to becoming a pro-aging radical as she dismantles myths and debunks the portrayal of older people as societal burdens; with years of research under her belt, she dreams of an aging-friendly world. Ashton Applewhite is the author of “This Chair Rocks–A Manifesto Against Ageism,” and she makes it her life’s work to expose ageist behavior, and educate us all as to how we can stop giving aging a bad rap. Jen and Ashton take an eye-opening look at ageism as a form of bias as unacceptable as any other, and give us actionable steps to ignite “age pride,” keeping in mind that aging is an integral part of our life journey, not a condition to be cured or concealed. If you’re fretfully staring down the next decade of life with fear and denial, consider the possibility that being stressed about aging actually can cause the very things we fear about aging. Ashton sums it up like this; “If you learn about aging, you will be less afraid. That knowledge and information is going to confer all kinds of protection about aging as well as you possibly can.” * * * Thought-Provoking Quotes: "Almost everything I thought I knew about what it was going to be like to be significantly older was way off base or flat out wrong, or not nuanced enough.There are plenty of legitimate reasons to worry about the years ahead, but our fears are so much out of proportion to reality. We never hear the other side of the story. I mean, how come no one actually wants to go back to their youth?" - Ashton Applewhite “When we blame everything on age, then that in itself becomes a hugely profitable industry; all the supplements, all this anti-aging, eternal life stuff--it does not work, and it's not good for you physically or psychologically.” - Ashton Applewhite “If younger women were friends with older women, they would see how coming into our own is a source of enormous power and satisfaction. If more of us were friends with younger women, we wouldn't have this envy.” - Ashton Applewhite “All prejudice operates to pit people against each other. And if we're squabbling, we're not going to challenge these larger forces.” - Ashton Applewhite “Aging is not something sad that old people do. Aging is something we embark on the day we are born and if you get the memo, you can avoid stepping on this hamster wheel of fear and denial.” - Ashton Applewhite Resources Mentioned in This Episode: This Chair Rocks by Ashton Applewhite Let’s End Ageism - Ashton’s TED Talk Old School Anti-Ageism Clearing House Yo, Is This Ageist - Ashton’s Blog Guest’s Links: Ashton’s Website Ashton’s Facebook Ashton’s Twitter Ashton’s Instagram Ashton’s Blog Ashton’s LinkedIn Connect with Jen! Jen’s website Jen’s Instagram Jen’s Twitter Jen’s Facebook Jen’s YouTube The For the Love Podcast is a production of Four Eyes Media, presented by Audacy.  Four Eyes Media: https://www.iiiimedia.com/ To learn more about listener data and our privacy practices visit: https://www.audacyinc.com/privacy-policy Learn more about your ad choices. Visit https://podcastchoices.com/adchoices

We all have things that scare us. And it’s not because we’re doing life wrong; fear, in and of itself, is a normal emotion. So then what do we do with it? That's really what this series, For the Love of Facing Your Fears, is all about. Today’s guest will be walking us through some strategies on facing our fears in a healthy way by showing us what habits mentally strong people employ in their lives. Amy Morin is a renowned psychotherapist, a bestselling author and she's devoted her whole career to the exploration of what it means to be mentally strong. Her TEDx talk, “The Secret of Becoming Mentally Strong” has been lauded as one of the most impactful TEDx videos to date. Amy’s personal journey of loss juxtaposes with Jen’s recent experience of starting over again after 26 years of marriage–and they both discuss how fear played into their lives during these periods of grief and loss. Amy gives actionable, easy to employ behaviors that can set us on the course toward conquering our fears–no matter how debilitating.  * * * Thought-Provoking Quotes: “It's so easy to get caught up in that idea of ‘I don't want my life to be different because I don't want to make it any worse and if it's going to be different, it's going to be hard to adapt to.’” - Amy Morin “Our fear meters in life are often super faulty. We think if something feels scary, we shouldn't do it and then we don't. I lived a lot of my life like that. Well, that's the perfect recipe for depression, because you live a really safe life and you don't go out there and figure out how exciting things can be and how much you're capable of doing.” - Amy Morin “When our fear runs really high, our intelligence runs really low. You want to balance that and take notice of how scared you feel right now? Fear will cause you to overestimate the likelihood that everything's going to go wrong. It will cause you to underestimate your own capabilities so you’ve got to raise your logic and balance out that fear a little bit.” - Amy Morin “Taking back your power is all about just stepping back and realizing these are my choices. This is my day, my life. How do I want to spend it? Do I need to set a boundary? Do I need to at least change my language so that I'm not saying other people are forcing me to do something, as opposed to just recognizing I don't want to do this, but I'm going to do it anyway?” - Amy Morin “Mentally strong people don't feel the world owes them anything.” - Amy Morin Resources Mentioned in This Episode: The Secret of Becoming Mentally Strong - Amy Morin’s TEDx Talk 13 Things Mentally Strong People Don’t Do by Amy Morin (Article) 13 Things Mentally Strong People Don’t Do (Book) Guest’s Links: Amy’s Website Amy’s Facebook Amy’s Twitter Amy’s Instagram Connect with Jen! Jen’s website - https://jenhatmaker.com/ Jen’s Instagram - https://instagram.com/jenhatmaker Jen’s Twitter - https://twitter.com/jenHatmaker/ Jen’s Facebook - https://facebook.com/jenhatmaker Jen’s YouTube - https://www.youtube.com/user/JenHatmaker?sub_confirmation=1 The For the Love Podcast is a production of Four Eyes Media, presented by Audacy.  Four Eyes Media: https://www.iiiimedia.com/ To learn more about listener data and our privacy practices visit: https://www.audacyinc.com/privacy-policy Learn more about your ad choices. Visit https://podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Isn’t it fun to be part of the in-crowd? Where you can connect with people who are of like minds and spirits, where everyone seems to be headed in the same direction? But what if you start having nagging questions as an insider that don’t seem to get resolved, and even worse, are met with disdain or fear from other members of your group? This can be a scary place for so many of us. For the purposes of our conversation today–we’re talking about when it happens in religious spaces. For years, singer/songwriter Derek Webb was very much on the “inside” of what was happening in Christendom as a top selling, award winning Christian artist, songwriter and worship leader. It took a few disruptions to his own life that sent him down the road to evaluating his faith, his beliefs and how he wanted to move forward with the new information he’d gained. Now, decidedly an “outsider” who tries to still take up space in the Christian zeitgeist to potentially model a different way of living, Derek has gone on to record solo albums and also work with artists that aren’t typical to Christian music–like drag queen Flamy Grant—with whom, incidentally, he attended the Gospel Music Dove Awards in 2023 (and who also had a number one Christian song pop up on the charts), with the intention of making people who are Christian and LGBTQ+IA feel less alone. In this episode, Jen and Derek compare their journeys as “peaceful disruptors,” what it cost them and what they gained in the process * * * Thought-Provoking Quotes: “So now here I am, 20 years [after going solo] and I'm spoiled into thinking that I can write songs about things no one else is writing songs about, and that's kind of my thing now.” - Derek Webb “I'd been so obsessed on thinking about, obsessed on my language about God, that I forgot to apply it to the way I behave in the world, the way I treat other people, which is ethics. And I realized, 'Oh no, how did I miss that?' As I stand before you as the ringing symbol, the clanging gong when I've got all the right words and none of the love, none of the fruit.” - Derek Webb “I had to rebuild at almost 40, I had to rebuild a whole life and reckon with the fallout, at least my part of the responsibility of some real hurt. I caused a lot of people who I love to hurt, the people I love more than anybody in the world. And it humbled me.” - Derek Webb “Flamy Grant and Semler were not the first two queer artists to have number-one albums and singles on the Christian music charts. It has happened so many times over the years, but by people who are closeted and people who live in tremendous fear in that space because they know they will be immediately rejected, excluded, marginalized, out.” - Derek Webb Resources Mentioned in This Episode: Caedmon’s Call  Aaron Tate’s Website  Second Baptist Church  She Must and Shall Go Free - Album by Derek Webb Essential Records Third Day  Jars Of Clay  Plumb  The Prayer of Jabez  Wedding Dress by Derek Webb  Grace Point Church  The Jesus Hypothesis  Boys Will Be Girls Music Video Grace Semler Baldridge Flamy Grant Instagram Drag Queen at Christian Music Awards Sparks Backlash (Newsweek Article) Guest’s Links: Derek’s Website - https://www.derekwebb.com/home Derek’s Facebook - http://facebook.com/derekwebb Derek’s Instagram - http://instagram.com/derekwebb Derek’s TikTok - http://tiktok.com/@derekwwebb Derek’s Twitter - http://twitter.com/derekwebb Derek’s YouTube - http://youtube.com/user/derekwebb Derek’s Patreon - http://patreon.com/derekwebb Connect with Jen! Jen’s website - https://jenhatmaker.com/ Jen’s Instagram - https://instagram.com/jenhatmaker Jen’s Twitter - https://twitter.com/jenHatmaker/ Jen’s Facebook - https://facebook.com/jenhatmaker Jen’s YouTube - https://www.youtube.com/user/JenHatmaker?sub_confirmation=1 The For the Love Podcast is a production of Four Eyes Media, presented by Audacy.  Four Eyes Media: https://www.iiiimedia.com/ To learn more about listener data and our privacy practices visit: https://www.audacyinc.com/privacy-policy Learn more about your ad choices. Visit https://podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Do you ever feel like you don’t have all the answers and information you need around your very own body? Are there beliefs or “facts” you might have learned that maybe aren’t actually centered around truth or science? Perhaps you’ve entered various seasons of your life as a female (menstruation, fertility, childbirth, hormone fluctuation, perimenopause, menopause) where you’ve felt like your concerns were dismissed or you weren’t given the tools, knowledge or treatment to help you navigate these season as well as you’d like. Whether you avidly seek knowledge about your body, or you’re bumping up against walls in what has been, historically, a lopsided research culture where male health has been more highly prioritized, we’ve got a guest today who is determined to correct that inequity with scienfitic and experiential information, research and active destigmatization. Dr. Jen Gunter is an obsetritican gynecologist and a bestselling author (The Vagina Bible, The Menopause Manifesto) who has made it her goal in life to “fix the internet” regarding information about women’s bodies and correcting the misinformation that runs rampant there; long held myths that cause fear, stress and even shame around our female phsyiology. Dr. Gunter debunks common misconceptions around our periods, our hymens (fyi, it’s not a “freshness” seal), synthetic hormones, menopause symptoms and more. Bottom line: you deserve to know about your body, and this conversation opens the door to finding true and accurate information that will help dismiss the fears you may have around all the seasons of your female health experience.   * * * Thought-Provoking Quotes: “I think the average high schooler probably graduates knowing more about frog biology than human biology. No shade to animal physiology. It's super important. However, high school should also be teaching you more practical information as well as things to advance you academically.” - Dr. Jen Gunter “People deserve to know how their body works.” - Dr. Jen Gunter “If you don't have that foundation of the menstrual cycle and you don’t know how it all works, it's harder to understand what's going on with menopause” - Dr. Jen Gunter “Basically, menopause is puberty in reverse." - Dr. Jen Gunter “If you could only do one intervention for a healthy menopause, it would not be estrogen. It would be exercise. Exercise touches every domain of every single thing that's going to be on your bothersome list. Exercise improves sleep, exercise reduces dementia. Exercise reduces heart disease. The only thing that it doesn't help is hot flashes.” - Dr. Jen Gunter “Every single hormone that you get, whether it's a pharmaceutical estrogen or it's something from a compounding pharmacy, comes from the exact same plant. It’s all from the same source.” - Dr. Jen Gunter “You're more than your menstrual cycle. You're awesome whether you have estrogen or not. It has nothing to do with your awesomeness. It really doesn't.” - Dr. Jen Gunter Resources Mentioned in This Episode: Guardian Article about Dr. Jen Gunter The Vagina Bible by Dr. Jen Gunter Menopause Manifesto by Dr. Jen Gunter Jensplaining - Dr. Jen Gunter’s Amazon Prime Series 2020 NAMS Media Award from the North American Menopause Society Recipients “Why can’t we talk about periods” - Dr. Jen Gunters 2020 Ted Talk Body Stuff with Dr. Jen Gunter Blood: The Science, Medicine, and Mythology of Menstruation by Dr. Jen Gunter The Vajenda - Dr. Jen Gunter’s Substack Newsletter  The Preemie Primer: A Complete Guide for Parents of Premature Babies--from Birth through the Toddler Years and Beyond by Dr. Jen Gunter  Ensure Meal Replacement Guest’s Links: Dr. Gunter’s Website Dr. Gunter’s Twitter Dr. Gunter’s Facebook Dr. Gunter’s Instagram Connect with Jen! Jen’s website Jen’s Instagram Jen’s Twitter  Jen’s Facebook Jen’s YouTube  The For the Love Podcast is a production of Four Eyes Media, presented by Audacy.  Four Eyes Media: https://www.iiiimedia.com/ To learn more about listener data and our privacy practices visit: https://www.audacyinc.com/privacy-policy Learn more about your ad choices. Visit https://podcastchoices.com/adchoices

How often do you stop and think about how well your sense of smell is working? Or how well you’re hearing? When was the last time you really thought about your vision and how it’s impacting the way you interact with the world? We’re grateful today for a friend of the show who’s returning to remind us that when we tune into our body and senses, we can start to shape our sensory world to best fit who we are. And when we are comfortable in that world, peace is more easily attained. Gretchen Rubin has been studying happiness and human nature for over a decade. Her book The Happiness Project spent more than two years on the New York Times bestseller list, and she's been featured in numerous media outlets, including The New York Times, Oprah's SuperSoul Sunday, and Good Morning America. Her latest book, Life in Five Senses, is a thought-provoking exploration of how we experience the world around us through sight, sound, smell, taste, and touch.  * * * Thank you to our Sponsors! Thought-Provoking Quotes: “There's so much power in the Five Senses, and it's everything from evoking memories to increasing your productivity to feel.” - Gretchen Rubin “We can go through our bodies to get to our minds.” - Gretchen Rubin “It's this mindfulness, this getting back into our body; we start to tune into these things and then we start to be able to shape our sensory world to suit ourselves.” - Gretchen Rubin “You can turn to your senses and find new creative ways to tap into your senses to help you draw closer to other people.” - Gretchen Rubin  Guest’s Links: Website: https://gretchenrubin.com/ Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/gretchenrubin/ Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/GretchenRubin  Twitter: https://twitter.com/gretchenrubin  Gretchen on FTL Podcast: https://podcasts.apple.com/sg/podcast/small-steps-to-a-happier-life-gretchen-rubin/id1258388821?i=1000426816646 Life in Five Senses book: www.barnesandnoble.com/w/life-in-five-senses-gretchen-rubin/1142221169 Happiness Project book: https://gretchenrubin.com/books/the-happiness-project/ Better Than Before book: https://gretchenrubin.com/books/better-than-before/ Outer Order, Inner Calm book: https://gretchenrubin.com/books/outer-order-inner-calm/ The Four Tendencies book: https://gretchenrubin.com/books/the-four-tendencies/ Happier with Gretchen Rubin Podcast: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/happier-with-gretchen-rubin/id969519520 Neglected Senses quiz: https://gretchenrubin.com/quiz/the-five-senses-quiz/ Therapy dough: https://www.healthline.com/health/diy-aromatherapy-playdough-for-stress Connect with Jen! Jen’s website: http://jenhatmaker.com/  Jen’s Instagram: https://instagram.com/jenhatmaker Jen’s Twitter: https://twitter.com/jenHatmaker/  Jen’s Facebook: https://facebook.com/jenhatmaker Jen’s YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/user/JenHatmaker?sub_confirmation=1  The For the Love Podcast is a production of Four Eyes Media, presented by Audacy. Four Eyes Media: https://www.iiiimedia.com/ To learn more about listener data and our privacy practices visit: https://www.audacyinc.com/privacy-policy Learn more about your ad choices. Visit https://podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Wrapping up another amazing and somewhat wild year here on the For the Love Podcast. For this special episode, Jen is flying solo to share her thoughts on what 2023 meant to her, what pinnacles were met, what didn’t go so well, and the many things add to the gratefulness list. From celebrating long time friendships and new friendships, to milestones with her kids, to being in a relationship as a “girlfriend,” to going through perimenopause and becoming gluten free, Jen recounts the blessings and the challenges 2023 brought to the table. And she gives us a peek into the process of writing for her brand new book that you won’t want to miss. For those of you who are struggling to find things to be grateful about over the last year, we’re here for you too. If you’re sludging through the remainder of the year, digging out of it a spoonful of dirt at a time, we’re here to remind you to keep going. Everything you're doing, every teeny little moment holds within it grace or hope or strength or outright joy, and every single moment matters. And you, our listener, matter to us. On our gratitude lists, you are at the top–and we look forward to more good, hard, and worthwhile stories to share with you. Thank you for making this show a vibrant hub and a soft place to land for us all. * * * Thank you to our sponsors! Thought-Provoking Quotes “I'm just trying to figure out what it means to do good in the world and be a good neighbor and leave something of a loving legacy.” - Jen Hatmaker “The older we get, the more I think I am realizing that our adult friendships is a love story. It is a love story as important and true and profound as any romantic story or a marriage. It's just as precious.” - Jen Hatmaker “Guys, I know this is earth shattering, this is groundbreaking information I'm about to tell you, but apparently it is good for our bodies to move in any way— exercise and strength training and core work. Apparently that's good for us. Also, it's highly linked to the reduction of perimenopausal symptoms.” - Jen Hatmaker "I just feel proud that my life crumbled to such shreds, but it didn't break me. I still was smart and I was still here, I was still alive and I still had goodness. And the fact that I could travel alone and enjoy my own company and not be self-conscious just felt like a stake in the ground, like, 'okay, all right, I'm doing okay!' And I had it in me to survive this and to even recover." - Jen Hatmaker Resources Mentioned in This Episode Sarah Bessey’s Instagram Kristen Howerton’s Instagram Sarah Goodfellow’s Instagram Jamie Wright’s Instagram Tara Livesay’s Instagram For the Love Podcast: Season 44: Letters from MeCamp 2022 Jen Hatmaker Cruise Ruth Bader Ginsburg: In Her Own Words Come As You Are: Revised and Updated: The Surprising New Science That Will Transform Your Sex Life by Emily Nagoski The Jen Hatmaker Book Club For the Love Podcast Season 40: ELEPHANTS IN THE ROOM PART 5: UNDOING THE STIGMA OF MENOPAUSE WITH CHERYL BRIDGES JOHNS Tyler Merritt’s Instagram Dream Again Tour MeCourse Connect with Jen! Jen’s website - https://jenhatmaker.com/ Jen’s Instagram - https://instagram.com/jenhatmaker Jen’s Twitter - https://twitter.com/jenHatmaker/ Jen’s Facebook - https://facebook.com/jenhatmaker Jen’s YouTube - https://www.youtube.com/user/JenHatmaker?sub_confirmation=1 The For the Love Podcast is a production of Four Eyes Media, presented by Audacy. To learn more about listener data and our privacy practices visit: https://www.audacyinc.com/privacy-policy Learn more about your ad choices. Visit https://podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Focusing on all things related to peace this holiday season, we’re pleased to present a special bonus episode from The Meditative Story Podcast, featuring our very own Jen Hatmaker. In this episode, Ryan, host of the Meditative Story Podcast, guides the listener with meditative prompts and music while Jen tells a story from her days growing up in church where she witnessed concrete power dynamics play out between men, women, husbands and wives. Jen speaks to how doubtful she is that she’ll ever be allowed to have a true voice in the community she loves so much. As we follow her years-long journey into leadership, she shares the realization she finally came to; we can all be powerful in many ways, and not just in the ways we've been taught. Grab a little zen and reflection during these busy days—with Jen and this special episode from our friends at the Meditative Story Podcast.  Thank you to our sponsors! Storyworth | Save $10 on your first purchase. Visit Storyworth.com/forthelove BetterHelp | Visit betterhelp.com/forthelove to save 10% on your first month! Thought-Provoking Quotes: “There may be someone in your life who expresses themselves in ways that you feel you never could. Through clothes. Their vibe. What was it about them that excited you? What would it be to allow yourself a bit of their energy?” - Ryan from the Meditative Story Podcast “We all grow up with certain templates. Society or tradition gives us ideas about what we're capable of and how much power we are allowed to have. So we take our inner alliance and tell ourselves, well, that's just how it has to be. But when we dare to really take up space. When we learn from liberated, confident people in our lives, we find that we're capable of more than we ever knew.” - Jen Hatmaker “Esther [from the Bible] not just a heroine or a fairy tale princess in a castle. She's a real person. This stirs something inside me. Have I been seeing myself as only one dimensional? My heart is beating. There's a distant rattling in me. I feel that inner lion I've kept at bay my whole life. And I want to let that lion out. I want to lead. I want to take up space. I want to be a writer.” - Jen Hatmaker Guest’s Links: Meditative Story Podcast Website Instagram Facebook Connect with Jen! Jen’s website - https://jenhatmaker.com/ Jen’s Instagram - https://instagram.com/jenhatmaker Jen’s Twitter - https://twitter.com/jenHatmaker/ Jen’s Facebook - https://facebook.com/jenhatmaker Jen’s YouTube - https://www.youtube.com/user/JenHatmaker?sub_confirmation=1 For the Love is a production of Four Eyes Media, presented by Audacy. To learn more about listener data and our privacy practices visit: https://www.audacyinc.com/privacy-policy Learn more about your ad choices. Visit https://podcastchoices.com/adchoices

In our ongoing pursuit of peace at the end of the year, Jen sits down with Father James Martin, one of America's most beloved spiritual leaders and a New York Times bestselling author. Known for his thought-provoking books "The Jesuit Guide to Almost Everything" and "Learning to Pray," Jen and Father Martin talk about the premises in Father Martin’s new book "Come Forth, the Promise of Jesus's Greatest Miracle," which tells the iconic story of the raising of biblical Lazarus from the dead in a way we guarantee you’ve never heard before. If you’ve been in therapy for any time at all, you might have been advised to let go of things that don’t serve you, and lo and behold, this ancient story of Jesus calling Lazarus from the tomb has wisdom and inspiration for today, and promises to leave you pondering on what you might leave behind in your own tomb for a new life. * * * Thought-Provoking Quotes “That's one of the reasons I write books to just say to people; being on a path is a human thing and you can read about it if you don't want to talk about it. Other people are going through it and have been through it way before you.” - Father James Martin “The Gospels should be disorienting. God wants to shake us up a little bit. And there's a great line from the Catholic activist and writer Dorothy Day that 'God comforts the afflicted but also afflicts the comfortable,' which I love, and it should be disorienting. It should shake us up. Jesus was pretty disorienting.” - Father James Martin "If you have difficulties with one or another way of interpreting the Gospels, you have to say, look-- Jesus constantly is with the poor. It's not ambiguous. 'Blessed are the poor.' I mean, you can't get any more blunt than that, but it's hard for us because it kind of challenges our status quo." - Father James Martin “Until we can let go of things that prevent us from loving God and getting closer to God, we won't be at peace as much as we could be.” - Father James Martin Resources Mentioned in This Episode The Jesuit Guide to Almost Everything by Father James Martin Learning to Pray: A Guide for Everyone by Father James Martin Transgender People Can Be Baptized Catholic Reuters Article  Mary Karr   The Seven Storey Mountain by Thomas Merton Jesuits Six Jesuit Martyrs in El Salvador WWJD (Wiki) Augustine of Hippo Come Forth, the Promise of Jesus's Greatest Miracle by Father James Martin Guest’s Links Instagram Twitter  Facebook Connect with Jen! Jen’s website  Jen’s Instagram Jen’s Twitter  Jen’s Facebook Jen’s YouTube To learn more about listener data and our privacy practices visit: https://www.audacyinc.com/privacy-policy Learn more about your ad choices. Visit https://podcastchoices.com/adchoices

In our ongoing pursuit of peace during the holidays, we’re tackling something this week that we might forget others are facing during the holidays (or perhaps we are trying to trudge through ourselves); grief. Everyone's grief journey is unique, but during a season where “joy” is being pushed 24/7, our grief can feel like it’s 10 times its normal size as we struggle to “show up” in the ways we usually do during the holidays. Our guests this week are here to remind us of several important things, including; it’s okay to grieve during the holidays, and it's perfectly okay to take it slow, to pause, to rest. There's no "right" way to grieve.  And that’s why we’re grateful to have some return visitors to the show, the hosts of the Good Mourning Podcast - Sal and Im. Sally Douglas and Imogene Carn met in 2019 after their mothers suddenly passed away just months apart. Because of their shared grief experience, they met in a grief group and decided to launch a podcast together. They know that grief is intense. It hits you physically, emotionally, spiritually. And even during the holidays, during what should be happy moments. The community they’ve created around the topic of grieving brings people together during what can be a really lonely time and reminds them, they’re not alone. There are others out there who know exactly what you're going through. And it's okay to reach out, to seek help, and to take care of your mental health. Sal and Im give us coping tools, show us how to establish boundaries when we’re grieving and also remind us; the pain does lessen over time. This is your journey, and you get to decide the pace. It's not a race. It's a process. So, take it one day at a time. You're doing just fine. * * * Thought-Provoking Quotes “The festive season is a time when there can be a lot of pressure to put on a brave face and to be happy and joyful. But if you are experiencing any type of loss, it's really hard, it can be really lonely and it can really amplify the things that you are missing. It's tough. I think just give yourself that permission to feel and know that you don't have to put on a brave face all the time.” - Sally Douglas “It's really important to honor wherever you're at and try not to judge yourself. If you feel like you want to slow down or you just want to sleep for an entire day, even if it's Christmas Day, honor that and just let yourself be wherever you are in that moment without judging yourself.” - Imogen Carn “We hear a lot from grievers in our community that the second year is harder than the first year. And that can take a lot of people by surprise because we anticipate that all the firsts are going to be harder, but it takes a long time to even process such a significant loss that's happened in your life.” - Imogen Carn “It's a tough job supporting someone you love who is in deep pain and I think often we just want to fix them and we can't. We offer up all these cliches and platitudes to try and make them feel better. If there's anything that you take away from this conversation, please try to avoid saying platitudes.” - Imogen Carn “I volunteer every Christmas morning at a lunch for people who are homeless. It's giving back, but it’s also something that's outside of you and your grief and it's a way to meet people. It's a way to connect, it's a sense of purpose that can be a really good thing to do if you are struggling. Maybe it's volunteering an hour of your time and you might be surprised at how that does help.” - Sally Douglas Resources Mentioned in This Episode: For the Love Episode with Sal & Im  Good Mourning by Sally Douglas and Imogen Carn The Golden Bachelor Guest’s Links: The Good Mourning Podcast Sal & Im’s Website Sal & Im’s Instagram Sal & Im’s Youtube Sal & Im’s Facebook Connect with Jen! Jen’s website Jen’s Instagram Jen’s Twitter Jen’s Facebook Jen’s YouTube To learn more about listener data and our privacy practices visit: https://www.audacyinc.com/privacy-policy Learn more about your ad choices. Visit https://podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Are you one of those people that says “I’ll rest when I’m dead?” We can relate. As busy people–partners, parents, career drivers, caretakers and a host of other hats we wear, rest seems like an elusive and sometimes impossible task–especially during the holidays. To kick off our new series, For the Love of Peace, we’re here to tell you–you need and deserve rest. And lest you think rest is just getting 8 hours of sleep at night (wouldn’t we all love that), it’s more. We need emotional, creative, physical and mental rest, just to name a few. The stats are real; when we don’t rest we have increased cortisol levels, which then add to inflammation, which then add to every type of metabolic disorder that’s out there–from high blood pressure to cancer, to stroke, diabetes and more. It’s obviously important to figure out how to fix this rest deficit–but how? There is already a shortage of time for our overloaded to-do lists, not to mention being there for family, friends, work and exercise (if we even have time to fit that in). Dr. Saundra Dalton-Smith has spent her career as an internal medicine physician, looking at the ways different kinds of rest are the little levers we can pull that renew our bodies, brains and souls. And good news–some of them only take 5 minutes to fit into our lives. When we put these rest practices into our lives, we avoid burnout, health issues and depression. Before you get to the end of seeing your own value to take care of yourself, consider Dr. Saundra’s advice and begin to respect the place that rest has in your life. By allowing it to sustain you, you’ll experience other areas of life much more joyfully.You Deserve Time To Rest with Dr. Saundra Dalton-Smith * * *  Thank you to our sponsors! Chime | Visit chime.com/forthelove to learn how you can benefit from using Chime! BetterHelp | Visit betterhelp.com/forthelove to save 10% on your first month! Caraway | Save 10% on your next purchase on all Caraway products by visiting carawayhome.com/forthelove and use code: forthelove Thought-Provoking Quotes: “When we put all of our buckets into sleep, we're in essence canceling out all of the other things I just mentioned because you can't get creative rest with your eyes closed in the bed, and you can't get emotional rest in the bed with your eyes closed. There are certain types of rest that you cannot hope to accomplish restoring with simply sleeping.” - Dr. Saundra Dalton-Smith “If you're someone who has a tendency to do excessive multitasking–you have 15 to 20 tabs open on your computer, you're jumping from one thing to the next, or you're in and out of your inbox all day long–multitasking has a tendency to train the brain not to recall things because why should it have to recall something if it can just open up another tab?” - Dr. Saundra Dalton-Smith  “High levels of sensory input can lead to sensory overload syndrome. A lot of us don't recognize our body's response. It's just a natural response to sensory overload. It's no different than if you have a two-year-old and you take them to a birthday party, they're good the first hour, but then like an hour and a half later they're screaming their head off or they're banging their feet on the ground– they’re experiencing sensory overload.” - Dr. Saundra Dalton-Smith Resources Mentioned in This Episode: Restorasis - https://www.restorasis.com/ Sacred Rest; Recover Your Life, Renew Your Energy, Restore Your Sanity by Dr. Saundra Dalton-Smith - https://amzn.to/46BqUU2 Rest Quiz - https://www.restquiz.com/quiz/rest-quiz-test/   Guest’s Links: Website - https://www.drdaltonsmith.com/ Instagram - https://www.instagram.com/drdaltonsmith Facebook - https://www.facebook.com/DrSaundraDaltonSmith/ Twitter - https://bit.ly/47RTySa   Connect with Jen! Jen’s website Jen’s InstagramJen’s Twitter Jen’s FacebookJen’s YouTube To learn more about listener data and our privacy practices visit: https://www.audacyinc.com/privacy-policy Learn more about your ad choices. Visit https://podcastchoices.com/adchoices

We’re bringing a close to our series on therapy, and we couldn’t be happier to have Kelly Corrigan with us to have a candid conversation with Jen around their thoughts on therapy, including when it first entered their awareness, and now, in a more enlightened age, how the next generation has more access to therapeutic help. Even as recently as 20-30 years ago, therapy was not talked about a lot in public. For Jen and Kelly, they didn’t see it modeled from their parents, it wasn’t mentioned in their church circles, and only earth shattering situations seemed to require it. But as they look back, they realized there were people in their lives who were likely touched by a host of mental health issues–like panic attacks, depression, anxiety–and they usually suffered in silence while others wondered why they were so “moody” or “different.” Now that therapy is enjoying its day in the zeitgeist, we can all benefit from the openness around mental health that is evolving daily. Kelly’s a dear friend of Jen’s and has been on our show numerous times–winning the coveted title of most appearances on our pod! Besides offering wonderful conversation and amazing insight here, Kelly is the host of her own podcast, Kelly Corrigan Wonders, and is the author of several amazing books including Tell Me More, Glitter and Glue, and The Middle Place. She also hosts a show called “Tell Me More” for NPR, and she and Jen discuss the value of the statement “tell me more” when relating to others about our deepest thoughts and feelings. * * * Thank you to our sponsors! ABLE | Visit https://www.ableclothing.com/ and use code JEN to save at checkout FOCL | Visit https://focl.com/ and use code FORTHELOVE at checkout for 20% off of your purchase Jen Hatmaker BookClub | Visit jenhatmakerbookclub.com and use code READ at checkout $5 off your purchase!   Thought-Provoking Quotes: "In suffering there's this mistaken idea that you are lonely in your suffering--that you're alone in that people don't know. All that reassurance when we say, 'Got that, yep. I had a thing.' It makes it undeniable that no one is uniquely afflicted, and to remove that from suffering is to lighten it." - Kelly Corrigan “The fact is that I am deeply attached to my people and their happiness. It matters to me above all else, and if the only way not to feel that is to detach, then I'm not signing up. This means that when I'm feeling worried, it means I'm crazy about you.” - Kelly Corrigan  Resources Mentioned in This Episode: Tell Me More Stories About the 12 Hardest Things I’m Learning to Say by Kelly Corrigan - https://www.amazon.com/Tell-Me-More-Stories-Learning/dp/0399588396/  Glitter and Glue: A Memoir by Kelly Corrigan - https://www.amazon.com/Glitter-Glue-Memoir-Kelly-Corrigan/dp/0345532856/  The Middle Place by Kelly Corrigan - https://bit.ly/49Gsxmt  For the Love of Conversations - https://jenhatmaker.com/podcasts/series-43/  Tell Me More with Kelly Corrigan - https://www.pbs.org/show/tell-me-more-kelly-corrigan/ Kelly Corrigan Wonders - https://www.kellycorrigan.com/podcast American Utopia - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/American_Utopia_(film) Guest’s Links: Kelly’s Website - https://www.kellycorrigan.com/ Kelly’s Instagram - https://www.instagram.com/kellycorrigan/?hl=en Kelly’s Twitter - https://twitter.com/corrigankelly?lang=en Kelly’s Facebook - https://www.facebook.com/kellycorriganauthor/ Connect with Jen! Jen’s website Jen’s InstagramJen’s Twitter Jen’s FacebookJen’s YouTube To learn more about listener data and our privacy practices visit: https://www.audacyinc.com/privacy-policy Learn more about your ad choices. Visit https://podcastchoices.com/adchoices

We’re back with some more therapeutic goodness as we approach the tail end of our therapy series with another fire episode! Awareness around mental health, trauma, dysfunctional family systems and more has been coming into the national awareness on a bigger level over the last 10 years. But back in 1986, the concept of codependency was really new. And unless you were deep into studying sociology or psychology or seeing a therapist yourself back then (also something that wasn’t as widely accepted), Melody Beattie’s book, Codependent No More, gave words to the masses who never had a way to describe these types of relationships in their lives. Codependency can worm its way into our lives—the definition being; those imbalanced relationships in our lives where one person enables another person’s self-destructive behavior (like addiction, immaturity, or even irresponsibility). It’s a bit insidious for those who don’t know what it looks like, and for so many, Melody’s book was a resource to help free themselves from something they may not have even recognized in their own lives. 35 years later, it’s still shining a light on those situations. Melody comes in with a scalpel to cut away to this very precise way of behaving and relating to another that is cloaked in good intentions and self-righteousness but is actually ruining our relationships. And fun fact, we were the very first podcast Melody has ever been on! Last year, she celebrated a new edition of her book honoring 35 years of its impact. Melody and Jen walk through how to recognize what codependency is and how it might be a part of your life and your relationships—which are the first important steps toward making an enormous change for the better.  * * * Thank you to our sponsors! BetterHelp | Visit betterhelp.com/forthelove to save 10% on your first month!  FOCL | Visit https://focl.com/ and use code FORTHELOVE at checkout for 20% off of your purchase Jen Hatmaker BookClub | Visit jenhatmakerbookclub.com and use code READ at checkout $5 off your purchase!   Thought-Provoking Quotes: “Until I understood my codependency, I didn't really feel like I had a life. I was just responding to others wherever I went.” - Melody Beattie “Codependency is being so obsessed with other people that that's all we can see and so out of touch with ourselves that we don't even see that anymore.” - Melody Beattie “Seeing ourselves is probably the bravest yet most painful thing we're ever asked to do in this lifetime. Seeing ourselves every day for the rest of our lives, instead of focusing on the other person and figuring out what they need to do to be better, to make them happier, to live better lives, all the things that we really should be doing for ourselves, but nobody ever ever told us.”- Melody Beattie “The key to codependency is the victim story. Somewhere underneath everything, there is a victim story and we're just simply writing the next page or the next chapter of it every time we interact with someone.” - Melody Beattie Melody’s Links: Website: https://melodybeattie.com/  Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/authormelodybeattie/  Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/writermelodybeattie/  Twitter: https://twitter.com/melodybeattie    Resources Mentioned in This Episode: For the Love episode with Dr. Brene Brown: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/getting-vulnerable-with-dr-bren%C3%A9-brown/id1258388821?i=1000391341377  Earnie Larson Books: https://www.hazelden.org/store/author/626?Earnie-Larsen  Sharon Stone’s biography: https://www.barnesandnoble.com/w/the-beauty-of-living-twice-sharon-stone/1137456964    Connect with Jen! Jen’s website: http://jenhatmaker.com/  Jen’s Instagram: https://instagram.com/jenhatmaker Jen’s Twitter: https://twitter.com/jenHatmaker/  Jen’s Facebook: https://facebook.com/jenhatmaker Jen’s YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/user/JenHatmaker?sub_confirmation=1  *original episode broadcast previously on the For the Love Apple Premium Podcast Channel To learn more about listener data and our privacy practices visit: https://www.audacyinc.com/privacy-policy Learn more about your ad choices. Visit https://podcastchoices.com/adchoices

It’s that time of year again, and we’re back with another *fire* gift guide for all your giving needs this season. And not only are we showcasing amazing and thoughtful gift finds, every gift we feature gives back as well! This year, we’re partnering with Ten Thousand Villages to present a beautiful array of artisan products. Ten Thousand Villages is a global maker to market movement that addresses economic injustice. We love to shop with intention, and Ten Thousand Villages gives us that window into ethically-sourced, handcrafted wares so that our dollars empower makers all around the world. Join Jen and her daughter Sydney as they walk us through their hand picked favorites from Ten Thousand Villages, and also offer an exclusive discount to you–our beloved podcast audience. Happy Holidays from Team Jen! * * * Thank you to our sponsors! Ten Thousand Villages  Use this link to shop with code JENHATMAKER to save 15% throughout the whole store! - https://jenhatmaker.com/giftguide/   Connect with Jen! Jen’s website - https://jenhatmaker.com/  Jen’s Instagram - https://instagram.com/jenhatmaker  Jen’s Twitter - https://twitter.com/jenHatmaker/  Jen’s Facebook - https://facebook.com/jenhatmaker Jen’s YouTube - https://www.youtube.com/user/JenHatmaker?sub_confirmation=1 To learn more about listener data and our privacy practices visit: https://www.audacyinc.com/privacy-policy Learn more about your ad choices. Visit https://podcastchoices.com/adchoices

In this latest installment of our For The Love of Therapy series, we delve into a timely discussion on mental wellness with a focus on genuine self-care. Our guest, Dr. Pooja Lakshmin, a renowned psychiatrist and advocate for women, offers fresh insights that urge listeners to break free from the superficial beauty and wellness industry's narrative that is steadily being pushed at us through all kinds of media, but in a dizzying fashion on social media, in particular. Steering the talk away from quick-fix solutions, Dr. Lakshmin illuminates the essence of true self-care, which, in her research, links to four major chambers rarely associated with this concept. From the importance of saying 'No' when overwhelmed, to understanding that self-care is more than just a beauty regimen, she reminds us that wellness comes from within. Dr. Lakshmin, an accomplished writer for the New York Times and founder of the Gemma community, also shares insights from her book, 'Real Self-Care: A Transformative Program for Redefining Wellness (Crystals, Cleanses, and Bubble Baths Not Included)'. Join us for this enlightening conversation and let's start redefining what wellness truly means.  * * * Thank you to our sponsors! Chime | Visit chime.com/forthelove to learn how you can benefit from using Chime! BetterHelp | Visit betterhelp.com/forthelove to save 10% on your first month! Thought-Provoking Quotes: “We have to talk about the systems, the social structures that have gotten us to this place where the expectation for a woman, a mom to feel better is this very condescending, ‘well just go to a yoga class, just pour your bubble bath and a glass of wine and there… you'll feel better.’ I find that to be condescending at best, manipulative at worst.” - Dr. Pooja Lakshmin “Real self-care is an internal process. It brings you closer to yourself. It's a verb. It's not a noun.” - Dr. Pooja Lakshmin “Guilt is just there all the time when it comes to boundaries and when it comes to compassion too; how we talk to ourselves.“ - Dr. Pooja Lakshmin  “Therapy is this cozy little corner where you can be with yourself and be curious.” - Dr. Pooja Lakshmin  Resources Mentioned in This Episode: Real Self-Care: A Transformative Program for Redefining Wellness (Crystals, Cleanses, and Bubble Baths Not Included) by Dr. Pooja Lakshmin Audre Lorde Bell Hooks Codependent No More: How to Stop Controlling Others and Start Caring for Yourself - by Melody Beattie For the Love Podcast episode featuring Brené Brown For the Love Premium Bonus Podcast episode featuring Melodie Beatty  Gemma Guest’s Links: Dr. Pooja Lakshmin’s Website Dr. Pooja Lakshmin’s Twitter Dr. Pooja Lakshmin’s Instagram Dr. Pooja Lakshmin’s Facebook Connect with Jen! Jen’s website Jen’s InstagramJen’s Twitter Jen’s FacebookJen’s YouTube To learn more about listener data and our privacy practices visit: https://www.audacyinc.com/privacy-policy Learn more about your ad choices. Visit https://podcastchoices.com/adchoices

It’s time for this week’s podcast therapy session and we’ve got another great therapist in our “office” as part of our For the Love of Therapy series. Dr. Sara Kuburic is an existential psychotherapist, author and the force behind The @Millennial.Therapist account on Instagram. Dr. Kuburic believes that each of us is a free and responsible agent who determines our own development through acts of our will. Though this isn’t always a popular view to take, as we often look to outside forces to blame for our unhappiness, Dr. Kuburic wants us to understand that we have this amazing opportunity to engage in life and we can take ownership and responsibility over our choices. In that vein, she asks a very important question: how much of what we deal with in life happens to us, and how much of it did we inflict on ourselves? (that’s a fun thing to spend a few hours pondering). But as a therapist, she helps people find tools to address whatever stage of life they’re–maybe it is a bad situation and you just can’t change it–but as she likes to ask: “what can you change or how can you change your attitude so the situation is less painful for you?” In addition to thinking about our lives existentially, Jen and Dr. Kuburic also discuss the concept of self-loss and how we can deceive ourselves into thinking we’re living the life we want, when our bodies are telling us otherwise by devolving into depression, anxiety and panic.    Jen and Dr. Kuburic get honest about:  What it’s like when you love the “idea” of who you are more than who you actually are–and how to stop lying to yourself What happens when not making a change in your life actually becomes more painful than changing Realizing that our bodies do have limits–no matter how strong you think you are or how strong you’ve been—your body is sending up red flags with feelings of anxiousness, fear or panic for seemingly no reason How sometimes our dedication to make something work can be so all consuming–even if that thing isn’t the right thing for our lives and hat commitment, which is normally a good quality, can lead us to our weakest moments if we don’t face up to the truth   * * * Thought-Provoking Quotes: “I think I got into psychology to try to understand what makes humans tick and try to understand my own human experience.” - Dr. Sara Kuburic “We get to engage in life; we can take ownership, we can take responsibility, we can make choices, and I think that that's really how I see human suffering. My question is always, ‘how much of it happened to you? How much of it did you inflict on yourself?’” - Dr. Sara Kuburic “I think if you're stagnant, that's where the loss happens. That's when we overcommit to one version of ourselves. When you’re not being stagnant, you are always being fluid–I think you’re understanding the assignment, which is constant creation and adaptation of yourself to fit your experiences, your context, and what life is asking of you in that moment.” - Dr. Sara Kuburic “Stop assuming you know someone well enough to stop paying attention.” - Dr. Sara Kuburic “I think having someone that I've known for eight years sit me down and just be like, ‘Hey, are you happy,” was the first time anyone, including myself, asked that question.” - Dr. Sara Kuburic “Someone else made the mess and now you have to clean it up when it wasn't your mess. But, the reason you're cleaning it up is because you deserve not to live in a mess, not because they deserve for you to clean it up. It's for you.” - Dr. Sara Kuburic Resources Mentioned in This Episode: It's On Me: Accept Hard Truths, Discover Yourself and Change Your Life by Dr. Sara Kuburic Dr. Sara Kuburic’s USA Today Column Guest’s Links: Dr. Sara Kuburic’s Website Dr. Sara Kuburic’s Instagram Dr. Sara Kuburic’s Facebook Dr. Sara Kuburic’s Twitter Dr. Sara Kuburic’s Pinterest  Dr. Sara Kuburic’s Substack Connect with Jen! Jen’s website Jen’s InstagramJen’s Twitter Jen’s FacebookJen’s YouTube To learn more about listener data and our privacy practices visit: https://www.audacyinc.com/privacy-policy Learn more about your ad choices. Visit https://podcastchoices.com/adchoices

We’re in the thick of our “For the Love of Therapy” series, and this week we’re getting a full helping of candor and insight from the multifaceted actress and author, Jada Pinkett Smith. Jada candidly reveals another side to her journey that many might not know from her highly public persona, a story where she takes charge of her narrative in the face of what people have decided for themselves who they think she is. Jada recounts the formative and often traumatic events of her past, and talks in stark terms about her present day pain points. Without sparing the hard parts, Jada leans into what it’s like for her, as it is for so many of us to be a woman today, what it’s like to reckon with our trauma, and marriage is really like behind the curtain, in hopes that what she’s learned will resonate with other women, no matter what their story is.    Jen and Jada compare notes from their own lives about: Jada’s encounters with complex trauma, PTSD, panic attacks, and suicidal ideation How mental health issues can visit anyone at any time, regardless of privilege or upbringing The slow acceptance to admitting they’ve faced trauma, thinking “others have had it worse” - and the continued work toward reckoning with that truth The reality that all of us, especially those in the public sector, will be judged by others, and a new understanding that judgment is most often about people’s own pain and how they’ve been hurt by others’ judgment, rather than it is about the person being judged Through sharing her life journey, which she covers in much greater detail in her newly released book “Worthy,” it’s Jada’s hope to encourage others navigating similar struggles towards wellness and understanding. * * * Thank you to our sponsors! BetterHelp | Visit betterhelp.com/forthelove to save 10% on your first month! Jen Hatmaker BookClub | Visit jenhatmakerbookclub.com and use code READ at checkout $5 off your purchase!   Thought-Provoking Quotes: “I just wanted to offer other women breadcrumbs that are on this journey called life. Our journeys aren't going to look exactly the same, but there are just some universal challenges that we have just being human and specifically being women. I just wanted to go, ‘Listen, I don't care what's going on. Instagram and Facebook, life is messy. Life is difficult. It's challenging. We're all trying to figure this out, and I'm just going to show you little things along the way that I figured out.’” - Jada Pinkett Smith “When you really start to understand the human condition, and when you really start to see people's fears, you really start to see people's pain. That's why people want to strike at you. That's why people want to spew whatever they can your way because of how they've been hurt, how they've hurt themselves, how they've been hurt from others' judgment.” - Jada Pinkett Smith “I am so lucky--yes, my mother was deep in her addiction, but I'm going to tell you--she showed up [for me] at some of the most pivotal times.” - Jada Pinkett Smith “It would take me years to really detach myself from chaos because chaos became normal for me.” - Jada Pinkett Smith “It's not other people's judgment that's the problem. It's how you judge yourself. When you know who you are and you are in the process of healing your self-judgment, you realize that any judgment that anybody's got on you is really a reflection of where they are sitting within themselves.” - Jada Pinkett Smith Resources Mentioned in This Episode: Time's 100 Most Influential People in 2021. Red Table Talk Girls Hold Up This World by Jada Pinkett Smith and Donyelle Kennedy Worthy by Jada Pinkett Smith Glory A Different World Ayahuasca    Guest’s Links: Instagram Facebook Twitter   Connect with Jen! Jen’s website Jen’s InstagramJen’s Twitter Jen’s FacebookJen’s YouTube To learn more about listener data and our privacy practices visit: https://www.audacyinc.com/privacy-policy Learn more about your ad choices. Visit https://podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Have you ever been told you are “too emotional,” or if you display sadness or anger that you’re “overreacting,” or (gasp) - even “hysterical?” Women have long had their emotions weaponized against them. And as part of our For the Love of Therapy series, we have a trauma therapist and mental health expert Dr. Anita Phillips at the mic to share her thoughts and findings on why embracing our emotions can be the key to living our most powerful life. Dr. Phillips extensively explores the societal pressures that often lead women to suppress their emotions. She argues that emotions are not a sign of weakness, but a source of strength, and should be embraced rather than hidden. Women's emotions are a reflection of their experiences and individuality, and they deserve to be expressed freely and without apology. She believes that if we can shift our perspective around emotions, we can achieve a healthier mental state and improved relationships, fostering a culture that values emotional authenticity and rejects unnecessary emotional censorship.  Jen and Dr. Anita discuss: The agency we have over our emotions and we won’t flourish unless we stop and listen to what our bodies and our feelings are telling us  That our emotions are not “red flags” they are clues that guide us to the best and healthiest way forward We shouldn’t see emotions as our enemy, and that internal war over them is not our destiny–we are created to flourish Principles from Dr. Anita’s book, The Garden Within * * * Thank you to our sponsors! Trust and Will - Get 10% and Free Shipping when you visit trustandwill.com/forthelove. See how Trust and Will can benefit you! FOCL | Visit https://focl.com/ and use code FORTHELOVE at checkout for 20% off of your purchase Jen Hatmaker BookClub | Visit jenhatmakerbookclub.com and use code READ at checkout $5 off your purchase! Thought-Provoking Quotes: “Not having an explanation for what's happening is its own form of trauma. The trauma overwhelms not only our body's capacity to cope with what's happening, but it breaks our frame of reference when we cannot explain this in any way. That is also traumatizing because the world becomes chronically unsafe.” - Dr. Anita Phillips “I was having these experiences with my emotions and my body that did not line up with this idea that our thoughts reigned supreme. That's one of the things that opened the door to me looking at trauma more deeply.” - Dr. Anita Phillips “My emotional pain does not squelch my spiritual power.” - Dr. Anita Phillips “We've been taught as Christians that if we believe and have faith, it's going to turn out good. Then we wouldn't be crying. We wouldn't be sad or we wouldn't be scared. That's insane because we have bodies and we're humans.” - Dr. Anita Phillips “Emotion brings flexibility to our decision-making that is important. We don't want robotic decision-makers. We want people who have heart, and who recognize humanity. Emotion has always been a part of human decision making.” - Dr. Anita Phillips “Because we have stigmatized emotions in order to not feel the painful ones, we have disconnected from our bodies. That's another problem; seeing the body as a problem as well.” - Dr. Anita Phillips “Women are taught not to trust their gut, not to trust their intuition, but we have so much power in that space.” - Dr. Anita Phillips “I'm emotional. I'm emotional all the time, and I'm so proud of that because I'm living the most powerful life I've ever lived because of that.” - Dr. Anita Phillips  Resources Mentioned in This Episode: What is the Vagus Nerve? For the Love Podcast Episode Featuring Dr. Hillary McBride Guest’s Links: Dr. Anita’s Website Dr. Anita’s Instagram Dr. Anita’s YouTube Dr. Anita's Facebook Dr. Anita’s Twitter Connect with Jen! Jen’s website Jen’s InstagramJen’s Twitter Jen’s FacebookJen’s YouTube To learn more about listener data and our privacy practices visit: https://www.audacyinc.com/privacy-policy Learn more about your ad choices. Visit https://podcastchoices.com/adchoices

It’s so fun when we get to have guests back on the show that we love, but it’s especially fun when we get to catch up after we haven’t talked to them for awhile! This guest joined us in the very first year of our show in the For the Love of Laughter series, and she was fire then, and she’s fire now, 5 years later. We’re talking about the amazingly talented and hilarious Anjelah Johnson-Reyes, one of our favorite comedians in the whole wide world! You know her from her awesome Nail Salon comedy sketch, which launched her career, or as her character from MadTV, Bon Qui Qui, and from her amazing comedy specials. When Anjelah was with us last time, she shared that she and her husband had chosen to pursue their careers to the fullest and had made the very personal decision to not have kids. But it’s funny what can change in five years, and Anjelah is now the proud mom of 3 month old Rosie Harlow Reyes. She shares what led to the decision to have a baby, what she’s learned in this season - which she also candidly shares on her YouTube channel via a series of videos called Postpartum Confessions. Whether she’s on stage doing comedy, acting on TV and in movies, or hosting podcasts with her husband Manny, Anjelah gives a great perspective on how life can take us where we least expect to go, and how we can laugh about it a little along the way. * * * Thank you to our sponsors! BetterHelp | Visit betterhelp.com/forthelove to save 10% on your first month! Hon’s Honey | Visit honshoney.com to see how you can benefit from their fun honey-based products! ABLE | Visit https://www.ableclothing.com/ and use code JEN to save at checkout   Resources Mentioned in This Episode: Anjelah’s Comedy Specials Anjelah’s Latest Special at the Ryman in Nashville Anjelah’s Nail Salon Bit Who Do I Think I Am: Stories of Chola Wishes and Caviar Dreams by Anjelah Johnson Anjelah’s Podcasts Including Manjelah   Guest’s Links: Anjelah’s Website Anjelah’s Instagram  Anjelah’s Facebook Anjelah’s Twitter Anjelah’s YouTube Anjelah’s TikTok Connect with Jen! Jen’s website Jen’s InstagramJen’s Twitter Jen’s FacebookJen’s YouTube To learn more about listener data and our privacy practices visit: https://www.audacyinc.com/privacy-policy Learn more about your ad choices. Visit https://podcastchoices.com/adchoices

We’re keeping the laughs going as we continue our For the Love of Funny series–and this week we’ve got Kevin James Thornton, a comedian and entertainer, who, after spending his youth in a fundamentalist church in the 90’s, found a lot to laugh about. After moving to LA to make his way on stages at the Comedy Store and as an actor, Kevin wasn’t sure he was happy with how his life was going. After a move to Nashville and some serious contemplation about where to go next, the pandemic hit. Bored at home, Kevin discovered a little thing called TikTok and decided it might be fun to share some of the stories of what it was like to grow up gay in a fundamentalist church in the 90’s, and much to his surprise his videos were wildly successful. At 50 years old, Kevin had found his niche, and now he brings his unique brand of comedy (often sung as a story through an auto-tune device—because it was the 90’s, after all) ) with audiences across the U.S. and Europe and with over 2 million followers on social media.  * * * Thank you to our sponsors! Chime | Visit chime.com/forthelove to learn how you can benefit from using Chime! FOCL | Visit https://focl.com/ and use code FORTHELOVE at checkout for 20% off of your purchase Jen Hatmaker BookClub | Visit jenhatmakerbookclub.com and use code READ at checkout $5 off your purchase! Resources Mentioned in This Episode: A Comedy Bit on Kevin’s YouTube Channel A Comedy Bit on Kevin’s YouTube Channel The Comedy Store in West Hollywood For the Love Episode with Nate Bargatze Kevin James Thornton's Upcoming Shows Guest’s Links: Kevin’s Website Kevin’s Instagram Kevin’s Twitter Kevin’s Facebook Kevin’s TikTok Kevin’s YouTube Connect with Jen! Jen’s website Jen’s InstagramJen’s Twitter Jen’s FacebookJen’s YouTube To learn more about listener data and our privacy practices visit: https://www.audacyinc.com/privacy-policy Learn more about your ad choices. Visit https://podcastchoices.com/adchoices

We’re knee-deep in our “For the Love of Funny” series, celebrating all things hilarious and witty. Jen’s been a long-time fan and amateur participant in the world of comedy, and our guest today explores one of her tip-top favorite genres of comedy. He's a master of observational humor, turning even the most mundane moments of life into pure comedy gold. Our guest, Tom Papa, is not just a comedian—he's a whirlwind of talent with a remarkable career spanning two decades. From his uproarious Netflix specials "What A Day" and "You're Doing Great," to his writing and stand-up projects in comedy clubs and for shows like NPR’s "Live From Here," to his acting roles, Tom has done it all. He and Jen discuss the common theme of mining gold from your family to create some of your best comedy material (but avoiding presenting that said material to them, because family can be brutal critics). They also discuss Tom’s new passion–baking, and how between writing, doing comedy and various shows, he’s in the kitchen tending to all the processes involved with producing amazing bread and other baked goods. To that end, Tom also hosts his own podcast called "Breaking Bread with Tom Papa," where he invites guests for lively discussions over meals. Like a lot of comedians, Tom is more than just funny—he's a thoughtful, insightful individual who gives you something to think about between all the laughs. * * * Thank you to our sponsors! Jen Hatmaker BookClub | Visit jenhatmakerbookclub.com and use code READ at checkout $5 off your purchase! ABLE | Visit https://www.ableclothing.com/ and use code JEN to save at checkout   BetterHelp | Visit betterhelp.com/forthelove to save 10% on your first month!   Thought-Provoking Quotes: “My uncle Tony was really funny. He would sit at the table and hold court. Then some cousins were funny, and so I definitely gravitated toward those people; that always kind of informed me. And I started doing that around my friends very, very early.” - Tom Papa “[In my comedy] I relate through family and the small stuff. It's like it is observational, but it's not. It's very personal observational, in a way." - Tom Papa "When you’re around people that are doing what you want to do, in time, you just want someone to say, 'it'll work. Just tell me. It'll work out.' It's like sometimes you go to the doctor, 'just tell me everything's all right.'" - Tom Papa “[My favorite thing] is standup, but that almost goes without saying. That's just me. So to even call that one of the things is kind of not fair. It's so good. It's so great. You get the response, you get the physical, the mental, the applause, the scariness, all of it is so raw and potent out of the other stuff that I do." - Tom Papa "One of the biggest hurdles that writers have is, is your own head saying, 'is this good enough?' And you start tearing it down and stop yourself from working with your critical mind." - Tom Papa Resources Mentioned in This Episode: Class Clown (Comedy Album by George Carlin) Let's Get Small (Comedy Album by Steve Martin) The Comedy Store Comedy Cellar Gary Gulman Ryan Hamilton Maria Bamford Colin Quinn Mateo Lane Ali Wong Live From Here A Prairie Home Companion with Garrison Keillor Come to Papa Chris Thile The Fitzgerald Theater Daily Rituals by Mason Currey Getting Baked with Tom Papa // The Best Italian Ciambella Ever! Getting Baked with Tom Papa // How To Start Baking Sourdough  Jen’s No-Cook Thai Peanut Chicken Salad Recipe Guest’s Links: Tom’s Website Tom’s Facebook Tom’s Instagram Tom’s Twitter Tom’s YouTube Connect with Jen! Jen’s website Jen’s InstagramJen’s Twitter Jen’s FacebookJen’s YouTube To learn more about listener data and our privacy practices visit: https://www.audacyinc.com/privacy-policy Learn more about your ad choices. Visit https://podcastchoices.com/adchoices

We’re back with more funny, and this week doesn’t disappoint. For those of you who grew up in the Bible Belt and maybe went to a conservative church (or even if you didn’t), perhaps you were a bit sheltered like our guests this week. Before racking up over 12 million combined followers on Instagram, TikTok, Facebook and elsewhere, and hosting the hit podcast Correct Opinions, comedian Trey Kennedy came to fame on the short-form videosharing app Vine. His hilarious and pointed videos ranged from imitating a church youth pastor who is cornily trying to be cool and up on pop culture, to an overly sunny Dad who tries to drag his teenage son out of bed to go to church. Now, Trey has teamed up with his friend Jake Triplett, who he met at a Christian camp, and the two co host the podcast, along with Trey’s wife Katie (who keeps the pair on track and from going down too many rabbit holes). In this episode, the trio and Jen share the commonalities of their Baptist church upbringings, their naivete about dating customs (hearing Jake’s assessment of what he thought french kissing was will make you howl), and how Trey’s Bible wielding grandmother had a serious talk with him about rumours of him being gay (He’s not. Not that there’s anything wrong with that). They've managed to turn being 'sheltered' into comedy gold, and they’ve been taking their brand of comedy all around the country with their recent “Grow Up” tour and their clean comedy is resonating everywhere. Their funny spin on their past doesn't just give us a good laugh; it also makes anyone who had a similar childhood feel like part of a big, quirky family. * * * Thank you to our sponsors! Jen Hatmaker BookClub | Visit jenhatmakerbookclub.com and use code READ at checkout $5 off your purchase! FOCL | Visit https://focl.com/ and use code FORTHELOVE at checkout for 20% off of your purchase ABLE | Visit https://www.ableclothing.com/ and use code JEN to save at checkout   Resources Mentioned in This Episode: Vine Correct Opinions (Podcast hosted by Trey, Katie, and Jake) Trey Kennedy’s Grow Up Comedy Tour Jake Triplett’s Sheltered Kid Special Shiny Happy People Docuseries For the Love Episode ft. John Crist Make Me Care About Podcast Interview with Melinda Gates   Guest’s Links: Trey’s Website Trey’s Instagram Trey’s Facebook Trey’s Twitter Jake’s Instagram Jake’s Facebook Jake’s Twitter   Connect with Jen! Jen’s website Jen’s InstagramJen’s Twitter Jen’s FacebookJen’s YouTube To learn more about listener data and our privacy practices visit: https://www.audacyinc.com/privacy-policy Learn more about your ad choices. Visit https://podcastchoices.com/adchoices

We’re back with more of our For the Love of Funny series, and this week we’re asking the question; is it possible to find humor not only in our lighter moments, but also in our vulnerable and difficult times? Our guest this week specializes in wit through the written word–and he has found that it is possible to find joy, while being heartfelt and hilarious at the same time. We’re welcoming R. Eric Thomas, back to the show! Whether he’s writing about politics, pop culture, or celebrity craziness–Eric has a refreshing and hilarious perspective–which really helps when regular reporting on politics and news might send us spiraling into the darkness. Eric is also a television writer (Dickinson on AppleTV+, Better Things on FX), a playwright, and a bestselling author of several books, including Here For It: Or How To Save Your Soul in America and his newest work, a collection of hilarious essays called Congratulations The Best Is Over. Eric brings that laugh we need when the world seems bonkers, and helps remind us that we can find something to laugh at in almost every situation–we just have to be open to it.  * * * Thank you to our sponsors! BetterHelp | Visit betterhelp.com/forthelove to save 10% on your first month! Trust and Will - Get 10% and Free Shipping when Visit trustandwill.com/forthelove. See how Trust and Will can benefit you! FOCL - Visit https://focl.com/ and use code FORTHELOVE at checkout for 20% off of your purchase   Thought-Provoking Quotes: “Be grateful that you got to this place because this is where you wanted to be. Don't spend so much time thinking, ‘What if it all goes away?’” - R. Eric Thomas  “I think to myself, ‘If you were better, then you'd be busier and that would make you happier.’ I don't know that busier equals happier. I don't know if that's true.” - R. Eric Thomas  “I remember the first time somebody came up to me in the street and said, ‘Hey, this is weird, but I follow your Facebook, a friend of mine told me to, and you're funny.’ And I'm like, ‘Who are you? What's happening? Where are the cameras?’” - R. Eric Thomas “I know from my own experience as a reader and as a writer, you can have a good time with something that is both funny and heartfelt.” - R. Eric Thomas “I posted an Instagram story that was essentially like, ‘I got rejected from this thing, but my Beyonce´ hat came. So there are pluses and minuses.’ People really responded. They were like, ‘Thank you for sharing not only your wins but your losses. It seems like you're always winning.’ I'm like, ‘baby, I am always losing, but I'm not going to share that.’” - R. Eric Thomas    Resources Mentioned in This Episode: For the Love of Finding Truth ft. Eric Thomas Eric Reads the News  Dickinson Better Things Here for It by R. Eric Thomas Congratulations, The Best is Over by R. Eric Thomas Reclaiming Her Time: The Power of Maxine Waters by R. Eric Thomas and Helena Andrews-Dyer Kings of B’more by R. Eric Thomas Lynn Nottage’s Website The Getaway Car: A Practical Memoir About Writing and Life by Ann Patchett The Enneagram Institute  Broken (in the best possible way) by Jenny Lawson My Point…And I Do Have One by Ellen Degeneres There’s Nothing in This Book That I Meant to Say by Paula Poundstone The Moth For the Love Podcast episode with Anne Bogel Guest’s Links: R. Eric Thomas’s Website R. Eric Thomas’s Instagram R. Eric Thomas’s Twitter R. Eric Thomas’s Facebook Connect with Jen! Jen’s website Jen’s InstagramJen’s Twitter Jen’s FacebookJen’s YouTube To learn more about listener data and our privacy practices visit: https://www.audacyinc.com/privacy-policy Learn more about your ad choices. Visit https://podcastchoices.com/adchoices

We’re looking for laughs and we found them in all the right places, and we’re sharing the hilarity with a brand new series called For the Love Of Funny. If you’ve hung out with us for any amount of time, you know that Jen is an avid devotee of all things funny. So we’ve rounded up some of her favorite funny people to not only bring us laughs, but to unpack the art and science of making people laugh. And for our very first episode, we couldn’t be more delighted to welcome “The Tennessee Kid” himself–Nate Bargatze! Nate’s known for his down-to-earth humor and deadpan comedy delivery, his highly viewed Netflix specials, and his favored status as a frequent guest on “The Tonight Show Starring Jimmy Fallon: (10+ times!). Surprise guest interviewer Tyler Merritt joins Jen as they pull back the curtain on Nate’s comedy journey. Often referred to as the “nicest man in standup,” Nate talks about growing up in a performance forward home (his dad was a Christian magician), the origins of some of his funniest jokes (Yelled at By a Clown, anyone?) and the side of fame that isn’t so pretty–like his sister’s incredulity that anyone would want to take a selfie with him.  * * * Thank you to our sponsors! Chime | Visit chime.com/forthelove to learn how you can benefit from using Chime! Jen Hatmaker BookClub | Visit jenhatmakerbookclub.com and use code READ at checkout $5 off your purchase! FOCL | Visit https://focl.com/ and use code FORTHELOVE at checkout for 20% off of your purchase   Resources Mentioned in This Episode: For the Love Episode ft. Kevin Nealon Nate Bargatze: The Tennessee Kid  Nate Bargatze: The Greatest Average American The Nateland Podcast The Be Funny Tour The Second City Comedy Club Hannibal Buress’s Website Kumail Nanjiani T.J. Miller’s Website Pete Holmes Website Amy Schumer’s Website Aziz Ansari’s Website Dusty Slay’s Website Sinbad: Afros & Bellbottoms Brian Regan’s Website Kurt Metzger’s Website Big J Oakerson’s Website Bill Burr’s Website Dave Attell’s Website Eddie Murphy: Raw Eddie Murphy: Delirious The Comic Strip Steve Martin Justin Smith’s Website Guest’s Links: Nate’s Website Nate’s Instagram Nate’s TikTok Nate’s YouTube Channel Nate’s Twitter Nate’s Facebook Connect with Jen! Jen’s website Jen’s InstagramJen’s Twitter Jen’s FacebookJen’s YouTube To learn more about listener data and our privacy practices visit: https://www.audacyinc.com/privacy-policy Learn more about your ad choices. Visit https://podcastchoices.com/adchoices

As we close in on the end of our Community and Friendships series, we’re reflecting on the great conversations we’ve had toward building relationships in our lives. And this week’s convo puts the cherry on top as we discuss our friends as “chosen family” and the shape that our friendship and communities take when we are in a place where we need extra support. Our guest this week, Emma Nadler, is a therapist, author and speaker who is doing valuable work in helping people build deeper relationships. Emma knows firsthand what it means to rely on her circle in ways she never thought she would, when her daughter was diagnosed with a DNA disorder, shifting the life she knew, and navigating the special care, multiple hospital stays, and more than full-time parenting her daughter needs. By leaning on her community and being brave enough to ask for help (when sometimes the tendency is to act like we’ve got it all under control). Emma’s goal is to show us how we can look beyond preconceived notions about what it means to be valued and to belong, and leads us toward building a world where thriving in community is possible for every single person.  Emma and Jen touch on:  What it looks like when our “family” looks different than expected in the context of friendships and our communities How to understand and learn to tolerate our emotions when it comes to interacting with friends and community and how to find meaning in everything—good and bad Practical steps on fostering really authentic connections, asking for help, and creating inclusive spaces The power of being direct when reaching out to connect with new people, or friends you’ve drifted from, to foster a deeper relationship  There’s so much value in learning how to meaningfully connect with others and create communities and friendships that celebrate our joyful times and anchor us at difficult times. * * * Thank you to our sponsors! Jen Hatmaker BookClub | Visit jenhatmakerbookclub.com and use code READ at checkout $5 off your purchase! FOCL | Visit https://focl.com/ and use code FORTHELOVE at checkout for 20% off of your purchase BetterHelp | Visit betterhelp.com/forthelove to save 10% on your first month!   Thought-Provoking Quotes: “We're born into something and we get certain things from that family; we might get a lot of things. We might get a lot of love. Some people do, some people don't get what they need. I think we can take that and build on it in the relationships that we create in our lives.” - Emma Nadler “There are 53 million caregivers in the United States right now and we can really feel alone, even though we're not. Often our work [leaves us] tucked away. We're at home. We have so much that we're grappling with that isn't seen. And so it can really feel [lonely].” - Emma Nadler “What would it be like to be open with people about what we are looking for in our relationships, what we want, and really let that in? ” - Emma Nadler “To me, in relationships, the question I'm most interested in is, do we want the same things out of this relationship?” - Emma Nadler   Resources Mentioned in This Episode: The Unlikely Village of Eden by Emma NadlerFeed These People by Jen Hatmaker Dr. Robert Waldinger’s Harvard Second Generation Study   Guest’s Links: Emma’s Website Emma’s Instagram Emma’s Facebook   Connect with Jen! Jen’s website Jen’s Instagram Jen’s Twitter Jen’s Facebook Jen’s YouTube   PLEASE NOTE: Listening to this podcast in no way creates a client/therapist relationship with Emma Nadler. This is educational in nature. No legal, counseling, or other professional services are being rendered and nothing is intended to provide such services or advice of any kind. If you are having a mental health emergency, please contact 911 or go to your nearest emergency room. You can also text or call 988 for the Suicide and Crisis Lifeline (within the United States). To learn more about listener data and our privacy practices visit: https://www.audacyinc.com/privacy-policy Learn more about your ad choices. Visit https://podcastchoices.com/adchoices

We’re back with our “For the Love of Community and Friendship Series, and this week, we delve into an area of friendship that all of us may face, but inevitably dread. It’s that moment when you know a friendship has run its course, or perhaps has become toxic, or you’ve just drifted apart–and you don’t know how to go forward. When life changes, when we change, and a friendship no longer serves us, how do we gracefully (and honestly) communicate about it? Our guest this week, who is here to walk us through this touchy topic, is writer, former standup comedian and political consultant Erin Falconer. Erin's written a book called How to Break Up With Your Friends: Finding Meaning, Connection and Boundaries in Modern Friendships. Lest you think this is just a conversation on how to wipe your friend slate clean, stick around–you’ll hear Jen and Erin talk about how to create and maintain the healthiest friendships through all the seasons of our lives in order to avoid the painful friend breakup.  They also discuss: Erin’s “Six Pillars of Friendship” that help us take stock of who is in our life and how we’re serving each other What to do when we see a friendship has run its course or needs to shift or change in some way How to keep the source of joy going in our adult friendships, and minimize the pain It’s tough to grapple with the complexities of friendship breakups, but it all starts with building healthy relationships from the start.  * * * Thank you to our sponsors! Trust and Will - Get 10% and Free Shipping when Visit trustandwill.com/forthelove. See how Trust and Will can benefit you! FOCL - Visit https://focl.com/ and use code FORTHELOVE at checkout for 20% off of your purchase Jen Hatmaker BookClub | Visit jenhatmakerbookclub.com and use code READ at checkout $5 off your purchase! Thought-Provoking Quotes: “There's no collectively agreed upon language out there in the zeitgeist about how to navigate conflict in [friend] relationships. There’s no blueprint for what a good one looks like, what a bad one looks like, and how to get out of good bad ones and into good ones." - Erin Falconer “The default setting on any one relationship should be one of positivity. It's so easy to slip into negative thinking and negative conversations because they feel so good. They feel like you're seen and you're heard and done. But you have to be really careful to not lean too heavily into those things.” - Erin Falconer “Relationships take work. To show up, you need to commit to the other person and you have to find your rhythm of what that looks like. It doesn't mean you have to be getting dinner every week, but there has to be some kind of agreed-upon level of commitment in this.” - Erin Falconer “It is true that individuals themselves can be toxic people. That is such a small percentage of people. It is, in this case, the relationship that is toxic, and even if somebody else is behaving badly, you've allowed them to continue to show up in this way in your life. We teach people how to treat us and there's a certain degree of responsibility we need to own within these relationships because with responsibility comes freedom and power.” - Erin Falconer “Relationships are very much a mirror to you. The more you explore these types of relationships, the more you explore yourself. To that end, understanding who is in your world is really important to understanding who you are.” - Erin Falconer  Resources Mentioned in This Episode: For the Love of Reconnecting ft. Nedra Tawwab How to Break Up with Your Friends: Finding Meaning, Connection, and Boundaries in Modern Friendships by Erin Falconer Marie Kondo Guest’s Links: Erin’s Instagram Erin’s Twitter Connect with Jen! Jen’s website Jen’s InstagramJen’s Twitter Jen’s FacebookJen’s YouTube   To learn more about listener data and our privacy practices visit: https://www.audacyinc.com/privacy-policy Learn more about your ad choices. Visit https://podcastchoices.com/adchoices

When was the last time you reached out to one of your neighbors? Not just the people you feel comfortable with, but the ones who live near that you might not know beyond a “How are you?” in passing. As we continue our Community and Friendship series, we’re taking a look at why it enriches our lives (and the lives of our neighbors) to invest in the people around us. It doesn’t have to mean they all become our best friends, but a little curiosity, a little paying attention, and a little effort to listen will go a long way in developing the kinds of relationships that make life sweeter. To help guide this conversation, we’re delighted to welcome author and speaker Shannan Martin back to the show! Through her writing, Shannan has revolutionized the way we think about relationships with her refreshing perspectives. She articulates the need for genuine, deep-seated friendships that stretch beyond conventional norms. She also unravels the complexities of forging meaningful connections in our modern world, and her last book “Start with Hello” beckons us toward extending hospitality in ways that might feel awkward at first, but will net us that sense of community and belonging we all long for.  Shannan and Jen discuss:  How Shannan, a self proclaimed introvert, faced her loneliness after she and her family moved from the country to the city by getting outside her comfort zone and making herself available to meet her neighbors What it means to be deeply embedded in a neighborhood where you are both a good neighbor, and your neighbors are good neighbors to you How making new friends, no matter how big or small, always starts with a simple “hello” and the small steps towards getting to know someone by making eye contact, paying attention and helping when we can Shannan and Jen agree that when we reach out beyond our fears, beyond our comfort level, and beyond our borders with radical hospitality, good things start to happen in our neighborhoods which then trickle out to our communities and begin to affect society as a whole. And, be sure to stay with us ‘til the very end–you won’t want to miss a little bonus chat among friends about whether ice cream is healthy for you or not, and what flavors Jen and Shannan swear by. * * * Thank you to our sponsors!  BetterHelp | Visit betterhelp.com/forthelove to save 10% on your first month! Jen Hatmaker BookClub | Visit jenhatmakerbookclub.com and use code READ at checkout $5 off your purchase! FOCL | Visit https://focl.com/ and use code FORTHELOVE at checkout for 20% off of your purchase Thought-Provoking Quotes: “Every relationship that we have, whether it's the smallest acquaintance or our truest loves, began with a hello.” - Shannan Martin “There's this unfair idea that if somebody is unhoused, they're gonna be inherently a danger to us and it's just simply not true.” - Shannan Martin “What if we just decided to eat together? What if we decided that nobody is exempt from being in our home? Everybody's invited. That makes life really interesting.” - Shannan Martin Resources Mentioned in This Episode: For the Love of Books Series The Window (a nonprofit organization out of Goshen, IN) Shannan’s Books For the Love Episode ft. Osheta Moore An article on the health benefits of Ice Cream by The Atlantic Toad the Wet Sprocket Tour Crack the Case by Dawes Guest’s Links: Shannan’s Website  Shannan’s Twitter  Shannan’s Instagram  Shannan’s Facebook Connect with Jen!: Jen’s website Jen’s InstagramJen’s Twitter Jen’s FacebookJen’s YouTube To learn more about listener data and our privacy practices visit: https://www.audacyinc.com/privacy-policy Learn more about your ad choices. Visit https://podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Hey friends, we are back with another episode in our For the Love of Community & Friendships, and we happen to have a true friend of the show returning to lay down some expertise about what it means to make and keep friends. We’re delighted to have Dr. Marisa Franco, (who also partnered with Jen to create a MeCourse on Friendship) who delves into the fascinating world of friendship attachment styles. Dr. Franco shares her extensive knowledge and insights on how our attachment styles, often formed during our early years, can significantly influence the type of friendships we form as adults. She discusses the three main types of attachment styles—secure, avoidant, and anxious—and explains how understanding our own style can help us navigate our friendships more effectively. Jen and Marisa touch on: How the three main types of attachment styles can change over time as we typically become more secure as we mature How, when we’re younger, we tend to have more friends (and friends who are very similar to us) as we look to expand our identity, and when we become more solid in our identity, we’re more open to be friends with people who are different from us Why friendship doesn’t just typically “happen,”--it takes effort, and some ways you can put yourself out there to make new friends, and how to do the work to keep the friends you already have How to approach conflict in friendship where we kindly share our needs with a spirit of reconciliation over an attitude of defensiveness  * * * Thank you to our sponsors! Chime | Visit chime.com/forthelove to learn how you can benefit from using Chime! FOCL | Visit https://focl.com/ and use code FORTHELOVE at checkout for 20% off of your purchase Jen Hatmaker BookClub | Visit jenhatmakerbookclub.com and use code READ at checkout $5 off your purchase!   Thought-Provoking Quotes: “If you don't understand your attachment style, you think that the world is just mean and cruel and people are gonna reject you or people are going to betray you. If you're more avoidant and you don't have any power, you don't have any agency because all the issues are out in the world.” - Dr. Marisa Franco “I think if we can understand our attachment styles, we have more agency, we have more control, we can shift our behaviors and we can find the relationships that we really want.” - Dr. Marisa Franco “People are a lot more likely to be friends with people that are similar to them. It's called homophily. The value of these similar relationships is they do make us feel very safe.” - Dr. Marisa Franco “We see in the research that people who see friendship as happening without effort are more likely to be lonely five years later. People that see it as requiring effort are less likely to be lonely five years later.” - Dr. Marisa Franco “What we see in the research is that when people try to reconnect with someone, that person is happier to receive that reconnection than we predict.” - Dr. Marisa Franco  “In a healthy conflict, I think of; what does this conflict look like without blame? What if I go into here not trying to blame this person, not trying to even assume that they were trying to intentionally hurt me. So then, how do I navigate it with that being what's going on in my head?” - Dr. Marisa Franco Resources Mentioned in This Episode: Platonic How The Science of Attachment Can Help You Make and Keep Friends a book by Dr. Marisa Franco Guest’s Links: Dr. Franco’s Website  Dr. Franco’s Instagram  Dr. Franco’s Facebook Dr. Franco’s Twitter Dr. Franco’s Psychology Today Connect with Jen! Jen’s website Jen’s InstagramJen’s Twitter Jen’s FacebookJen’s YouTube To learn more about listener data and our privacy practices visit: https://www.audacyinc.com/privacy-policy Learn more about your ad choices. Visit https://podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Genuine heart friendships have an incredible impact on our lives, including our health. Many recent studies tout the connection between health and the quality of your relationships, and that loneliness (not to be confused with being alone) can have a negative effect on our health–possibly even bigger than smoking or drinking or poor eating. So is it possible that our friends can actually help save us? Our guest today thinks so; writer and poet extraordinaire Maggie Smith recently went through a divorce and she credits her close knit friend group for being “her parachute” in that process (much like Jen’s friends have been for her as well).  Jen and Maggie discuss these topics around friendship:  The way friends can invest in you in a way that family isn’t able to when you’re going through disruptive life moments The friends that intuitively know what you need during a rough patch and show up proactively with solutions so you don’t feel so lost How we can nurture those “life saving” friendships by being a good friend ourselves  Thank God for the friends who remind us of who we are–of our core goodness and worth– when a disruptive time shakes up our identity. They help bring us back to ourselves.  * * * Thank you to our sponsors! Jen Hatmaker BookClub | Visit jenhatmakerbookclub.com and use code READ at checkout $5 off your purchase!  Caraway | Save 10% on your next purchase on all Caraway products by visiting carawayhome.com/forthelove and use code: forthelove BetterHelp | Visit betterhelp.com/forthelove to save 10% on your first month! Thought-Provoking Quotes:  “I was in a ‘not seeing the forest for the trees' mode. I was painting an inch from the canvas. I had no idea what the shape of anything was and I was just panicked and trying to spackle everything back together as quickly as I could. And so having people who could remind me of my goodness, my core worth, which I think is so easy to forget in these moments." - Maggie Smith "When friends come in, they're not necessarily invested in the relationship. They're invested in your happiness. Whatever that looks like for you, it doesn't actually impact your friend a block away. If your marriage doesn't work the same way it impacts your family, who's thinking, 'Oh, what are we gonna do for Christmas now?'" - Maggie Smith “I think there's something that we do that hurts our adult friendships in particular, which is why we prioritize them sometimes way below our romantic relationships. It happens even when we're dating. We all knew or we were the girl who was 15 and as soon as she got a boyfriend stopped hanging out with her friends on the weekends because she was like, ‘I just wanna be with my boyfriend and if he's busy then I can come hang out.’” - Maggie Smith "Maybe someone hurt you five years ago now seems pretty small and not unmanageable or unforgivable. So what would it take to just reach out, call your friends, and have them help you craft a text to someone that you haven't talked to in a while, or leave a voicemail—if you're phone brave, I am not phone brave, so I would text or probably email. If you know where they live, send a little postcard that has some little private joke or something that reminds you of them." - Maggie Smith  Resources Mentioned in This Episode: You Could Make This Place Beautiful: A Memoir by Maggie Smith   My Thoughts Have Wings by Maggie Smith (A picture book releasing in winter 2024 by Maggie Smith) Moving Forward After Pain Rips Your Script: Maggie Smith (FTL Episode featuring Maggie Smith) Guest’s Links: Maggie’s Website Maggie’s Instagram Maggie’s Twitter Maggie’s Facebook Connect with Jen! Jen’s website Jen’s InstagramJen’s Twitter Jen’s FacebookJen’s YouTube To learn more about listener data and our privacy practices visit: https://www.audacyinc.com/privacy-policy Learn more about your ad choices. Visit https://podcastchoices.com/adchoices

We’re in a brand new series; For the Love of Friends and Community. Friendship and community often serve as the cornerstone for many women's lives, providing a vital support system that nurtures connection, empathy, and mutual growth. In a recent survey from Psych Central, nearly half of most women report having fewer than 3 close friends, one third report having between 4-9 close friends, and 12% say they have no close friends at all. We know that friendship contributes to more satisfaction in life and is good for our overall health. So what’s the key to finding and keeping friends? How many friends do we need to get those good friend vibes? Our guest this week, author and podcaster Laura Tremaine, has written extensively about friendship, drawing from her own experiences and the experiences of other women she has talked to. Laura wants us to identify, create and nurture these deep connections that we long for. She also teaches us that friendship takes work, and vulnerably shares her friendship fails (yes, even a friendship expert has a few friend misses now and again).  Jen and Laura discuss:  The key qualities that make a friendship meaningful and enduring, and how those things are defined by what you value A rundown of the things we all may think are important about friendship and looking at the things that aren’t as important as we’ve been made to believe they are  How to navigate friendship breakups and friendships ending, allowing grief over that loss, and leaving room for that vacant “chair” to be filled by someone new Finding the “fellow obsessive” friend - the one you can geek out about with things that you both love Creating meaningful friendships is not just about having a social circle. It's about experiencing true companionship and vulnerability and support. And it's these soul connections that can bring so much joy and fulfillment to our lives.  * * * Thank you to our sponsors! MeCourse: LGBTQIA+ | LGBTQIA+ Parenting e-course from Jen and special guests is available for order. Visit https://www.mecourse.org/lgbtqia-parenting for more info. FOCL | Visit https://focl.com/ and use code FORTHELOVE at checkout for 20% off of your purchase Jen Hatmaker BookClub | Visit jenhatmakerbookclub.com and use code READ at checkout $5 off your purchase! Thought-Provoking Quotes: “You can have all the data about why we connect or don't connect or how many people we can reasonably connect with. There's data and then there's actually real life.” - Laura Tremaine “It's great to have the friends who knew you when. It's also great to have friends who are like, ‘I had no idea you used to be that way and I'm glad we're meeting at this stage.’” - Laura Tremaine “My friendship with one of my best friends ended not by my choice, and it was as devastating as any romantic breakup I have ever been through.” - Laura Tremaine “Sharing your stuff, even when it's messy, brings you closer to who you are.” - Laura Tremaine “When you make a new friend and someone likes this newest version of you that you have fought so hard to be, how validating is that?” - Laura Tremaine “Friendship is a to-do and I have to put it on my to-do list like I put work tasks on my to-do list.” - Laura Tremaine Resources Mentioned in This Episode: Share Your Stuff I’ll Go First (a book by Laura Tremaine) Friends song by Michael W. Smith Brené Brown’s Websites Jamie B. Golden Steven King Summer (A book club with Laura Tremaine) On Writing: A Memoir of the Craft by Stephen King The Stand by Stephen King Guest’s Links: Laura’s Instagram Laura’s Facebook Laura’s Podcast Laura’s Amazon Laura’s Website Connect with Jen! Jen’s website Jen’s InstagramJen’s Twitter Jen’s FacebookJen’s YouTube   To learn more about listener data and our privacy practices visit: https://www.audacyinc.com/privacy-policy Learn more about your ad choices. Visit https://podcastchoices.com/adchoices

If you or anyone you know and love has ever had issues with their mental health, you know how painful it can be. As we conclude our “For the Love of Being Seen and Heard” series, we just want to remind you that there's no shame in admitting that you might need a little help. Maybe you’re feeling low, or more anxious than usual, or sad, scared, or just off—anything that feels different or keeps you from flourishing. Our guest today is here to encourage you to take agency over your mental health, and as a therapist herself, she’s here to help us shed those stigmas around seeking help from a therapist or counselor. Lori Gottleib is a renowned psychotherapist, a bestselling author, and a leading voice in the mental health space. Her latest book (which was also a a selection for the Jen Hatmaker Book Club) Maybe You Should Talk To Somebody leads us into her own experiences with the transformative power of therapy and gives answers to those who might have hesitations about beginning this process. Lori and Jen talk about:  Identifying the stereotypes about therapy and debunking them, plus what to expect so that you can a get the most out of your time with a therapist Developing an attitude that mental health is just as important as physical help and that seeking a therapist is on the same level as getting a check up with a medical doctor toward whole body health Jen’s personal experiences with therapy - and how she processed pain and betrayal, plus what it looks like to be in active recovery Becoming aware of and taking responsiblity for our own patterns, actions and responses to life events as it pertains to our mental state and interactions with others  As Lori says, “one thing that therapy will teach you is how to be your real, messy, imperfect, fallible self, but also still love who you are.”   * * *  Thank you to our sponsors! BetterHelp | Visit betterhelp.com/forthelove to save 10% on your first month! FOCL | Visit https://focl.com/ and use code FORTHELOVE at checkout for 20% off of your purchase Jen Hatmaker BookClub | Vist jenhatmakerbookclub.com and use code READ at checkout $5 off your purchase! Thought-Provoking Quotes: “I think a lot of people are maybe afraid to open up to a therapist. They're maybe afraid to say, ‘this is the truth of who I am.’f That's why I really wanted to be open about what I was going through when I went to therapy, because I want people to know that this is a space where we've seen it all, not only as a therapist, but as a person in the world ourselves.” - Lori Gottlieb “The more you can show the truth of who you are, the deeper your connections will be with the people in your life.” - Lori Gottlieb “The internet is the most effective short-term non-prescription painkiller out there because it's really something we use to distract ourselves.” - Lori Gottlieb  “The value of therapy is that you get wise compassion; we will hold up a mirror to you and we will help you to see what you haven't been willing or able to see about your role in the situation.” - Lori Gottlieb Resources Mentioned in This Episode: For the Love of Reconnecting Podcast episode- Rewriting the Stories We Tell Ourselves: Lori Gottlieb Maybe You Should Talk to Somebody by Lori Gottlieb Jen Hatmaker Book Club Aspen Ideas Festival Dear Therapist Podcast Guy Winch’s Ted Talk Lori’s Atlantic Articles Maybe You Should Talk to Someone Workbook Maybe You Should Talk to Someone Journal Guest’s Links: Lori’s Website Lori’s Twitter Lori’s Instagram Lori’s Facebook   Connect with Jen! Jen’s website Jen’s InstagramJen’s Twitter Jen’s FacebookJen’s YouTube To learn more about listener data and our privacy practices visit: https://www.audacyinc.com/privacy-policy Learn more about your ad choices. Visit https://podcastchoices.com/adchoices

To close out season one of the Make Me Care About Podcast, Jen sits down with the co-chair of The Bill and Melinda Gates Foundation, Melinda French Gates. In the spirit of helping us care about important, but sometimes little known facts, resources and phenomena, in this final episode, Melinda helps Jen wrap the season by discussing why she thinks we should care, and why she herself cares about the topics discussed throughout the first season. She also fills us in on what new initiatives are brewing at the Bill and Melinda Gates Foundation and the foundation's future. She discusses a central tenet toward enhancing women’s economic power, and why she believes this is such an important goal for the foundation. Join Jen and Melinda as they discuss: What happens when we start to care about important topics like the ones discussed in this Make Me Care About series How women having true economic power changes everything in their household and in the world Jen’s pick on the episode from this season that had the most impact on her How Melinda’s travels around the world provide crucial perspective on other cultures and ways of life toward helping others thrive You won’t want to miss this fascinating wrap to Season One of the Make Me Care About Podcast with special guest Melinda French Gates. *** Gates Foundation Links Make Me Care About Podcast Series Gates Foundation  Resources for this Episode Krystal Payne Deon Woods Bell Chef Pierre Thiam Connect with Jen! Jen’s website Jen’s InstagramJen’s Twitter Jen’s FacebookJen’s YouTube To learn more about listener data and our privacy practices visit: https://www.audacyinc.com/privacy-policy Learn more about your ad choices. Visit https://podcastchoices.com/adchoices

We’re back with another installment of our Being Seen and Heard series, and we think this one is going to strike a nerve with many of you out there who are looking for a better, stronger, fairer, narrative when it comes to the balance of work in your home and toward raising children. Are you the one in your relationship who is handling the lion’s share of the care and feeding of your littles PLUS taking care of their pickups and dropoffs to school, daycare, sports, bathtimes, bedtimes, wiping noses, butts PLUS managing the domestic front of grocery shopping, cleaning, organizing, handling the social calendar, vacations, PLUS working a 40 hour a week job either inside or outside the home? We see you and are asking a question that maybe you ask every day; why are women still, in a day and age where we make up 55.9 percent of the workforce and where 40 percent are the main breadwinner in the home, still responsible for so much when it comes to child rearing and domestic workload? Our guest this week has created a national conversation about greater equality on the home front with a system she created through intense research that helps couples create balance, by understanding that women are doing what she calls almost all of the “invisible labor” in the home, with at least two thirds of them having a job outside the home as well. Eve Rodsky is a Harvard Law School grad with years of training in organizational management When she had her first child (and began to see her identity at her job being stripped away because of it) and then began the dance of balancing her job with all of her duties as a mother (for which she bore the lion’s share of the domestic and child rearing responsibilities, as so many women do) she started to wonder: what would it be like if couples could reimagine their relationships as to how it relates to rebalancing the work it takes to run a home? So began her “Fair Play” system, where she sets couples up for success in relationship and parenting by helping them change the way they think and talk about their home life.  Jen and Eve discuss:  The patriarchal history that has been around for centuries that informs why the imbalance of domestic workload still exists when so many other categories for women have been elevated How important it is to invite men into their full power into the home, removing barriers and stereotypes as to what men’s and women’s strengths are there Changing the notion that women’s time is somehow less important than men’s–and that the “invisible work” women do is toward guarding the time of men  How the overwhelming pace of work, child rearing and home management eventually ends up making us sick and damaging our relationships, and what we can do about it  BONUS: Eve puts Jen to the test with a question from her Fair Play card deck where we dive deep into Jen’s family values–a question that is illuminating to all of us in understanding each other in relationship.  Thank you to our sponsors! Thought-Provoking Quotes: “Changing and inviting men into their full power in the home is the only way women are gonna be able to step out into their full power in the world.” - Eve Rodsky “We've convinced women that their time is sand. It's infinite. Whereas we guard men's time as if it's finite like diamonds.” - Eve Rodsky Resources Mentioned in This Episode: Peter Drucker Robert Waldinger Ted Talk Fair Play Life Instagram Fairlifeplay.com I’m Glad My Mom Died by Jennette McCurdy - book recommendation Tiny Beautiful Things by Cheryl Strayed - book recommendation  The Kingdom of Prep: The Inside Story of the Rise and (Near) Fall of J. Crew - book recommendation Guest’s Links: Eve’s Website Eve’s Facebook Eve’s Instagram Eve’s Twitter Connect with Jen! Jen’s website Jen’s InstagramJen’s Twitter Jen’s FacebookJen’s YouTube To learn more about listener data and our privacy practices visit: https://www.audacyinc.com/privacy-policy Learn more about your ad choices. Visit https://podcastchoices.com/adchoices

We’re back with maybe the most foundational episode in our Being Seen and Heard series–and it’s all about how we see ourselves. Were you taught to love yourself when you were growing up? Many of us never grew up hearing anything about embodiment, and maybe we’ve treated our bodies as “the enemy” for most of our years. Maybe you grew up in a time where you didn’t see people that looked like you, or had your body type represented in magazines, on TV or in movies. Perhaps you even had shame about your body (or still do), and you bought into diet culture and were constantly worried about your size and the number on the scale. It’s hard to see ourselves as beautiful when we’re looking outside ourselves for a standard of beauty. Our guest today is doing the good work of helping people see themselves differently, and it’s giving them freedom to love themselves for who they are today. Jessamyn Stanley has become a powerful voice for wellness and body acceptance (she also dubs herself the “Beyonce’ of yoga” - who can’t get behind that?). After attending yoga classes with a friend, Jessamyn fell in love with it, but she noticed that she didn’t see anyone who looked like her or had a body like hers–and when she moved to a different city and wasn’t attending yoga classes anymore—she craved a community to share her practice–except she wanted all kinds of people and body types to be a part of it. She began sharing her yoga practice on Instagram in 2012 and was amazed by the overwhelming response from many who had never done yoga before because they had felt just like Jessamyn had–that maybe it wasn’t for “people like them.” Her fledgling Insta-yoga classes grew into an organization called The Underbelly, a unique and inclusive digital wellness experience that draws thousands of people into its safe, accepting space. Jen and Jessamyn touch on these topics:  Jessamyn’s experience being ashamed of her body as a middle schooler and being bullied for being different and how she looks at those years of bullying as a revelation that everyone is self conscious about their bodies-bullies included The realization we all have at the end of the day; all we have is ourselves-and if we can accept ourselves as we are right now-not who we thought we should be, or who we might be-we’ll enjoy the ability to be fully present and authentic in all of our encounters Debunking the long held notion that many people have about black women (and also that black women have been taught to believe) that they are “stronger” and “superwomen,” and what it means to allow themselves moments of rest and self-care  Key changes that could be made to empower everyone to have their own agency toward self care, by making it possible for anyone-no matter how much money you make, or where you live-to participate in wellness practices like yoga  Thought-Provoking Quotes: “Middle school was a time when I was really heavily bullied. That experience for me, looking back, was one of the greatest experiences because what it was actually teaching me is: everyone is self-conscious about their body. There's no one who is not self-conscious. And the person who bullies is having the most traumatic experience.” -Jessamyn Stanley “If I am all I have, then I have to learn to accept myself where I am right now. Not where I could be in the future, or where I thought I should have been 10 years ago. Like, what does it mean to just be who I am today?” -Jessamyn Stanley Resources: Leslie Kinzel - Body acceptance writer Maryanne Kirby - Body acceptance writer Nicolette Mason - Fat fashion blogger Dianne Bondi - Yoga practitioner Bikram Yoga Guest Links: Jessamyn’s TikTok Jessamyn’s Instagram Jessamyn’s Twitter  The Underbelly Yoga Jessamyn’s People Magazine feature  Jessamyn's Books @theBabySharkClub - Jessamyn’s dog's Instagram Connect with Jen! Jen’s website Jen’s InstagramJen’s Twitter Jen’s FacebookJen’s YouTube To learn more about listener data and our privacy practices visit: https://www.audacyinc.com/privacy-policy Learn more about your ad choices. Visit https://podcastchoices.com/adchoices

If you’ve listened long enough to our show and also follow Jen, you probably know that the conversations we invite come in many stripes—thoughtful, timely, fun, encouraging, helpful, educational and inclusive—plus, we’re not afraid to veer into some of the deeper stuff. Important stuff that is sometimes hard to wrap our heads around, but if we don’t, no change can occur. Whatever we think about gun rights, there are voices to consider who are doing hard work to create a future where kids can safely attend schools, where people won’t be shot just for being in the wrong place at the wrong time, where mass shootings become a thing of the past. Wherever you stand on the spectrum of this issue, at the end of the day, many polls show that roughly 90% of us agree that we should have stricter gun laws. So we’re opening the For the Love Floor to someone who is seeing and hearing first hand from families affected by gun violence, who makes it her priority to educate the public, and puts the issue in front of legislators for increased gun safety. Gloria Pan is the VP of Moms Rising, a group of caring moms who take on the most critical issues facing women, mothers and families. She’s the head of their gun safety initiative and works with their membership to accelerate impact on Capitol Hill and state capitols to affect legislative change. She's also been a trusted voice who’s spread the message on CNN, with The Los Angeles Times, NPR, and all kinds of media platforms.  Gloria and Jen have a discussion around:  + The origins of the 2nd Amendment and how the narrative of guns rights proponents has been shaped over the last 50 years  + Practical steps toward what we all can do if we want to make our voices heard about this issue and take action toward better gun safety + Hope toward a new generation of young people who are engaged in creating a better future and are paying attention in ways perhaps previous generations haven’t  This work is not glamorous and can be full of disappointment, as moving mountains can often be. We’re grateful to people like Gloria who give us a glimpse from inside the fight, and bring us hope that change can really happen. * * * Thank you to our sponsors! Thought-Provoking Quotes: “Gun violence deaths in this country hovered around 32,000 people a year. That was pretty consistent for many years. Now we're nearing 50,000 and we have so many guns. We have more guns than people in this country.” - Gloria Pan “We consider all moms and families who care about the future of their families and their communities and our country as our constituency. We very much believe that our job is to bring their voices and their concerns to the policy-making table” - Gloria Pan “Not too long ago, issues that are concerning for moms and families were never even talked about in Congress. Childcare, paid family and medical leave, and policies that enabled families to be able to care for our families were never even talked about. But because of the work of MomsRising, our partners out there, and moms and families speaking out, it is now front and center for many lawmakers.” - Gloria Pan "Join us. Help us build this momentum toward this future where the well-being of families is front and center for this country. Because what are we without our families?" - Gloria Pan Resources Mentioned in This Episode: Sandy Hook Maxwell Frost Attitudes Toward Gun Ownership in America: Pew Research 2008 Heller Decision  The Bruen Decision The Cincinnati Revolt Article on Maxwell Frost and Parkland Florida Guest’s Links: Gloria’s Website Gloria’s Instagram Gloria’s Twitter Gloria’s Pinterest Connect with Jen! Jen’s website Jen’s InstagramJen’s Twitter Jen’s FacebookJen’s YouTube   To learn more about listener data and our privacy practices visit: https://www.audacyinc.com/privacy-policy Learn more about your ad choices. Visit https://podcastchoices.com/adchoices

It’s another week of our illuminating For the Love of Being Seen and Heard series. We’re talking to people that are doing the life-changing work of helping each other see and hear each other–to see and hear communities that we are not a part of, to see and hear voices that have been traditionally silenced or marginalized, or even to see and hear ourselves in honest and affirming ways. Our guest this week is a powerful advocate, but with a tender heart who works in so many spaces that matter: feminism, racial justice, the arts, activism, self care and healing. Rachel Cargle is a writer and entrepreneur who has created powerful online learning spaces. She’s a regular contributor to Cultured Magazine, The Cut and Atmos. She’s been featured in the New York Times and Forbes as well. Her work centers around an invitation to pursue healing and growth, as well as re-imagining how systems that no longer serve us can be dismantled or changed to embrace justice and liberation. Her belief is that every one of us has power–the power to unlearn, relearn and reimagine–taking ourselves out of stuck spaces and creating places for understanding for everyone. Her thoughts on feminism are so insightful as she looks at how a well intentioned movement for the progress of women leaves out key communities and how reimagining how to see and hear the needs of every woman toward better conditions for all women. This powerful discussion centers around: An explanation and brief history of the feminist movement and how communities of color often are left behind in this work How the culture, both inside and outside of black communities often stereotype black women as workers, as strong, as able to bear pain differently than their white counterparts; and Rachel’s work to help black women feel cared for–which leads to an amazing ripple effect on families, organizations and communities The Loveland Foundation, which gives black women access to black therapists, to self-care and to other resources that are so often not readily or affordably available  Simple ways that women can get involved in the conversation to become clear about this intersection of feminism and race by hearing and telling truths, and to engage in knowledge, empathy, and action.  Sometimes the truth can be hard to process, but when there is intentionality in how we exist in our efforts toward benefitting the condition of women, the result is liberation for all women.  * * * Thank you to our sponsors! Thought-Provoking Quotes: “I believe that when black women are poured into, it really offers a ripple effect to most other places in our communities and societies.” - Rachel Cargle "The systems are insistent on us not being curious. If we're not curious, they must stay the same. And if they stay the same the people who built them to win will continue winning." - Rachel Cargle "A lot of what I didn't yet know was what it meant to be a black woman in the feminist movement, in spaces full of white women who were having a very different experience than I was, and who were benefiting from the outcomes of our collective work--more than the black women who were doing equal amounts of the work--and sometimes even more of the work in these spaces." - Rachel Cargle Resources Mentioned in This Episode: Photo of Rachel from the Women’s March in 2017 per Huffington Post article “Feminism is White Supremacy In Heels” an article by Rachel Cargle in Harper’s Bazaar Elizabeth Cady Staton Ida B. Wells Be the Bridge Ebony Janice Website The Loveland FoundationElizabeth’s Bookshop & Writing Centre Rich Auntie Supreme Instagram The Great Unlearn Guest’s Links: Rachel’s Website Rachel’s Facebook Rachel’s Twitter Rachel’s Instagram Connect with Jen! Jen’s website Jen’s InstagramJen’s Twitter Jen’s FacebookJen’s YouTube To learn more about listener data and our privacy practices visit: https://www.audacyinc.com/privacy-policy Learn more about your ad choices. Visit https://podcastchoices.com/adchoices

We’re back for more of our Being Seen and Heard series! In a time where it feels like we are struggling to really see and hear one another, there are some bright lights who make it their mission to help one another understand each other a little better. Our guest today, Sara Cunningham, the founder of FreeMomHugs.org, is one amazing example of what can happen when we really see people for who they are and begin to hear their stories. Sara was on the show right at the beginning of her journey with Free Mom Hugs, and now the org—which started with the simple idea of attending Pride parades and holding up a sign that said “Free Mom Hugs,”—has become a national and world wide phenomenon. She uses her own experience as a guide to how she advocates, and is absolutely passionate about connecting with faith, civic, business, and government leaders in efforts to make the world a kinder safer place for our LGBTQIA+ family.   Sara and Jen touch on these topics: Sara’s roots in conservative evangelicalism and how she found herself moving “from the church to the pride parade” after she reckoned with her son’s admission that he was gay and going to live in his identity  The stories of people who, after coming out, lost their families, were kicked out of their churches, and felt completely alone and found solace and comfort in the simple act of a mom extending a hug Sara’s son Parker’s (as well as her own) journey of self-discovery and then coming to live authentically after seeing others, who had come out in faith environments, survive and thrive after loss  How we can affect change with our voices as it relates to legislation that targets the LGBTQIA+ community * * * Thank you to our sponsors! BetterHelp | Visit betterhelp.com/forthelove to save 10% on your first month! MeCourse: LGBTQIA+ | LGBTQIA+ Parenting e-course from Jen and special guests is available for order. Visit https://www.mecourse.org/lgbtqia-parenting for more info. FOCL | Visit https://focl.com/ and use code FORTHELOVE at checkout for 20% off of your purchase Thought-Provoking Quotes: “I remember there was a time, at the beginning of that journey, I call from the church to the pride parade. It was like reality was setting in. The bubble that I was in, the evangelical conservative mainstream bubble that I was in where everyone looked like me and talked like me, had just shattered. And I wanted to take a banner and put it outside of my house on the front door, like, welcome to the real world. And suddenly it's like my eyes are truly open.” - Sara Cunningham “I think about [my son] Parker early on in his journey of self-discovery and then coming to live authentically. He had people in his life that had survived the loss, who had survived being outed, kicked out of their place of worship and losing their family. Just seeing them go beyond that and thriving and having a place of their own and working and contributing to society; he saw people that had faced what he feared and then came out on the other side of it.” - Sara Cunningham  “Our mission statement is that we empower the world to celebrate the community through visibility, education, and conversation.” - Sara Cunningham, about FreeMomHugs.org Resources Mentioned in This Episode: Mama Bears FTL Episode ft. Sydney Hatmaker  Kai Shappley’s Website Free Mom Hugs Revolution Conference Kimberly Shappley’s Website Glennon Doyle’s Website How We Sleep at Night: A Mother’s Memoir by Sara Cunningham Good Friend with Jamie Lee Curtis ft Sara Cunningham HRC Oklahoma ACLU Oklahoma Freedom Oklahoma Guest’s Links: FreeMomHugs Website FreeMomHugs Facebook FreeMomHugs Instagram FreeMomHugs Twitter FreeMomHugs Youtube Connect with Jen! Jen’s website Jen’s InstagramJen’s Twitter Jen’s FacebookJen’s YouTube   To learn more about listener data and our privacy practices visit: https://www.audacyinc.com/privacy-policy Learn more about your ad choices. Visit https://podcastchoices.com/adchoices

We’re back with our series For The Love of Being Seen and Heard. There is so much right now floating around in culture about what happens to us when we don’t feel like we’re either being seen or heard. For most of us, the longing to be understood by others is a core need. And for some groups or communities, including the disabled community, the task of being seen, heard and understood is more challenging, and we’ll hear why as we talk with disabled scholar-practitioner Dr. Amy Kenny. Dr. Kenny has made it her life’s work to shed light on and help clear up misunderstandings around the abled community’s view of the disabled. Her latest book, My Body Is Not a Prayer Request does a deep dive into one of those communities—places of faith—and the particular biases and unintentional ableism propagated there. Amy compassionately offers insight and solutions toward understanding in a new way.  Jen and Dr. Kenny discuss:  Common misunderstandings that abled people have toward disabled people plus words and actions they can learn from disabled people toward connectedness The “invisible qualities of God’s divine nature” and how we might be able to accept imperfections in nature, even considering them beautiful, but are unable to accept or find beauty in the imperfections of our bodies  “Inspiration porn” a phrase that relates to the overall view of disabled folks being the poster children for overcoming—putting them in the position of feeling as if they are objects on a pedestal and that their sole purpose in life is to inspire the abled  The challenges around access for disabled people and how to think differently about the right of access for all people  There’s hope in this conversation, and Amy guides us to a place where we can unlearn some ableist tendencies and learn more about a community that has much to contribute to our world.  * * * Thank you to our sponsors! Chime | Visit https://www.chime.com/apply-debit/?ad=podcast_forthelove to learn how you can benefit from using Chime BetterHelp | Visit betterhelp.com/forthelove to save 10% on your first month! MeCourse: LGBTQIA+ | LGBTQIA+ Parenting e-course from Jen and special guests is available for order. Visit https://www.mecourse.org/lgbtqia-parenting for more info. Thought-Provoking Quotes: “I'm not ashamed of my disability. It's an intrinsic part of the way that I navigate the world and the way that I am treated by the world and by various communities.” - Dr. Amy Kenny "I grew up in a household and in a church community that taught me that everyone was made in the image of God. And I had the audacity to believe it. Unfortunately, I wasn't treated as though I was made in the image of God a lot of times because I received potions and prayers and all kinds of shaming tactics to try to pray me away, essentially." - Dr. Amy Kenny "It's a beautiful interdependence that disabled folks bring and that we all can co-flourish when we have interdependence with one another." - Dr. Amy Kenny "We create this hierarchy of worth in humanity where we have societally constructed ideas of what's normal, who's intelligent, what's productive enough--who's contributing enough. All of those ideas uphold, ableism, racism, transphobia, colonialism, they're all interconnected." - Dr. Amy Kenny  "My body is made of the same stuff as stars. Just watch me shine." - Dr. Amy Kenny “I have learned from the disability community that I have permission to show up as myself.” - Dr. Amy Kenny Resources Mentioned in This Episode: My Body is Not a Prayer Request by Dr. Amy Kenny Georgetown University’s Disability Culture Initiative Stella Young’s Memorial Website Maysoon Zayid’s website Zoom Guest’s Links: Dr. Amy Kenny’s website  Connect with Jen! Jen’s website Jen’s InstagramJen’s Twitter Jen’s FacebookJen’s YouTube   To learn more about listener data and our privacy practices visit: https://www.audacyinc.com/privacy-policy Learn more about your ad choices. Visit https://podcastchoices.com/adchoices

We’re at the tail end of our For the Love of Calming the Chaos series–and if you’ve gotten a chance to hear the whole series, we hope you’ve been able to take away some actionable items toward further peace in your life. Our last episode in the series is the perfect capper toward extending that ability to calm the chaos during the disruptive times of our lives, but also during the heartbreakingly difficult times. Our guest this week brings us the very comforting message that simply bucking up or trying to cheerlead ourselves into positivity isn't going to cut it. She gives us permission to actively accept our sadness, and then some tools for how to process it and move it from chaos to a place of peace. Katherine May is an international best-selling author, including the books Enchantment Awakening Wonder in An Anxious Age and Wintering: The Power of Rest and Retreat in Difficult Times. Katherine is going to walk us through not only her own story of a hard winter season she endured, and what she learned, but she’ll show us how we can be gentle with ourselves and believe that we deserve peace, no matter the circumstances.   Jen and Katherine talk about: When those winter seasons come, just when you think you can’t or will never be happy again and the dark pit feels too overwhelming; that’s typically when the winter begins to cease and recovery begins Giving yourself grace to believe you haven’t done anything wrong if you’re still suffering a week, a month or even six months later - the process of unlearning your old ways of life and relearning new ones can be painful and lengthy Not all the lessons we learn come from happiness, they come from sorrow, and how to accept that   Chaos doesn’t just emanate from choices that we've made or that we've onboarded too many things, but sometimes when tragedy or heartache has found its way to our doorstep. Allowing ourselves to rest and retreat at these times is a gift we can all give ourselves.  * * * Thank you to our sponsors! Rothy’s | $20 off your first purchase by visiting Rothys.com/forthelove Make Me Care About…Podcast | Jen is hosting a special podcast series produced by the Bill & Melinda Gates Foundation. Check out "Make Me Care About..." wherever you get your podcasts. Caraway | Save 10% on your next purchase on all Caraway products by visiting carawayhome.com/forthelove and use code: forthelove  Thought-Provoking Quotes: “One of the defining parts of [a season of winter] is that feeling of being trapped in a space with a window onto the outside world. And it seems like everybody else is carrying on and they're all fine. And you are uniquely not fine.” - Katherine May  “There's something about how raw you are in that time [of suffering]. So there are moments of intense beauty that are an integral part of this, part of the suffering.”- Katherine May  “People who've gone through major winters always seem to look back and say, ‘do you know what? I wouldn't have not gone through it if it meant that I couldn't be who I am now.’ You almost appreciate them because change is always necessary.” - Katherine May  “You are not alone. You feel very alone, but you are actually part of a massive community of other people who are going through the same thing as you, but maybe for different reasons. And there's this incredible bond between all of you that might not be obvious, but you can trust this space and you can trust your sadness.” - Katherine May Resources Mentioned in This Episode: Enchantment: Awakening Wonder in an Anxious Age - book by Katherine May Wintering, the Power of Rest and Retreat in Difficult Times - book by Katherine May   Guest’s Links: Katherine’s Website Katherine’s Instagram Katherine’s Pinterest Connect with Jen!: Jen’s website Jen’s InstagramJen’s Twitter Jen’s FacebookJen’s YouTube   To learn more about listener data and our privacy practices visit: https://www.audacyinc.com/privacy-policy Learn more about your ad choices. Visit https://podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Calling all parents of adolescents, or those of you who are about to have adolescents in your midst–if you’ve been feeling like you’re not sure what is normal in the emotional landscape of teenagers, we’re here to help. Face it—teenagers are literally in the epicenter of chaos–and because they live in our homes, sometimes it bleeds into our lives too. These kids are in developmental flux and there’s so much on them with school work, keeping up grades, extracurricular activities, friends (not to mention friend drama), anxiety about college—it’s a lot. But we can find ways to stand by them in their emotions, without getting too overcome with our own–and help them manage all this chaos in a way that serves them, and serves the whole family. Our guest this week is the perfect breath of calm in the midst of teen emotional chaos–she’s lived it, she studies it and she practices in it. Dr. Lisa Damour is a New York Times bestselling author who has written a book on the subject called The Emotional Lives of Teenagers, in addition to being an expert on adolescent development and family mental health. She and Jen hit the high points of:  The seven developmental tasks that teenagers face Why the emotional world of teenagers is very different than during any other time in their life, and how they navigate emotions and how they express them   How to know when a teenager is having a mental health crisis or if it’s just a teenager being a teenager How to manage a meltdown in nine steps Dr. Lisa gives us actionable tools to help understand teenagers and gently guide them as they wade through the somewhat chaotic season of adolescence.  * * * Thank you to our sponsors! Betterhelp | 10% off your first month. Visit Betterhelp.com/forthelove Make Me Care About…Podcast | Jen is hosting a special podcast series produced by the Bill & Melinda Gates Foundation. Check out "Make Me Care About..." wherever you get your podcasts. Thistle Farms | Use code For the Love for 15%off at checkout. Visit https://thistlefarms.org Thought-Provoking Quotes: “There is so much change in an incredibly short period of time. There are so many demands on that teenager in terms of how they're gonna grow, what is gonna be different between when they were 11 to 18. I mean, those are not the same people” - Dr. Lisa Damour “Teenagers make choices that can have a very dramatic impact on what's available to them in young adulthood, in terms of their options” - Dr. Lisa Damour "I think so often when we think we're listening, we're not listening. We're waiting for [our teenager] to pause so that we can make a suggestion. That's not listening." - Dr. Lisa Damour "Once your kid is into adolescence and is more autonomous and wanting more independence, and they come in close and ask for support--savor it and set your watch by the fact that it is gonna end probably within the next 30 seconds and it's not gonna end in a nice way." - Dr. Lisa Damour Resources Mentioned in This Episode Untangled by Dr. Lisa Damour Under Pressure by Dr. Lisa Damour The Emotional Lives of Teenagers by Dr. Lisa Damour The Ask Lisa Podcast The Little Mermaid Dr. Damour’s Bookmarks Guest’s Links Dr. Damour’s website Dr. Damour’s Instagram Dr. Damour’s YouTube Channel Dr. Damour’s Twitter Dr. Damour’s Facebook  Connect with Jen! Jen’s website Jen’s InstagramJen’s Twitter Jen’s FacebookJen’s YouTube   To learn more about listener data and our privacy practices visit: https://www.audacyinc.com/privacy-policy Learn more about your ad choices. Visit https://podcastchoices.com/adchoices

In our ongoing quest to squash the chaos in our lives, we’re talking to two experts (who are in fact sisters) who literally help us create space for our souls and our homes to breathe. Emily P. Freeman hosts the Do the Next Right Thing podcast where listeners flock to hear her soothing voice guide them with small ways to achieve mental clarity and avoid analysis paralysis when making decisions. Her sister, Myquillyn Smith, better known as The Nester, has the superpower of helping us create peace in the physical places we live with smart solutions that tweak our spaces to bring us calm–because when our homes feel out of control, our inner chaos rises as well.  Highlights from this discussion with Jen, Emily, and Myquillyn include: How Emily and Myquillyn played with their Barbies as young girls was indicative of the roads they chose later in life  How sometimes the things that we are influenced to purchase to help us conquer chaos can become triggers for chaos (ie: THE BASKET PEOPLE)  How to not get bogged down with the pressure to plan your whole life, and how looking at past decisions can inform the decisions you make in the future  What it means to “quiet a room” in order to bring calm to your living spaces  Join Jen, Emily, and Myquillyn as we all seek a little refreshment for our lives and homes.  * * * Thank you to our sponsors! Make Me Care About…Podcast | Jen is hosting a special podcast series produced by the Bill & Melinda Gates Foundation. Check out "Make Me Care About..." wherever you get your podcasts. Thistle Farms | Use code For the Love for 15%off at checkout. Visit https://thistlefarms.org Jen Hatmaker & Friends Cruise | Book your spot now at JenHatmaker.com/cruise Thought-Provoking Quotes "We would play Barbies—like I'm talking multiple levels of Barbie life. But the thing is, the way we moved through our Barbie life as kids echoes into adulthood. It is the way that we live our lives as grownups." - Emily P. Freeman "Decision making and discernment is not something we can quit, ignore, graduate, retire from, or often delegate. It is always with us. Unfortunately, sometimes it's great, sometimes it's not. And let's not forget it is a great privilege to be able to make a choice at all." - Emily P. Freeman "There are tons of studies about clutter and chaos and what it does to our literal heartbeat, the stress that we feel." - Myquillyn Smith "Our best teachers for decisions we are going to make in the future are the decisions we've already made in the past." Emily P. Freeman "The work of discernment is so much less about what should I do or not do? It's about can I trust myself?" - Emily P. Freeman “If you think of every single singular item in your space, having a voice over the months, over the years, maybe decades—it gets louder and louder.” - Myquillyn Smith “We think creating a beautiful home is about what we add in, but often it's about what we remove.” - Myquillyn Smith “If you cannot put your decision into a sentence, then it is not time to make the decision yet.” - Emily P. Freeman Resources Mentioned in This Episode The Next Right Thing Podcast The Next Right Thing Book by Emily Freeman The Next Right Thing Guided Journal by Emily Freeman Emily P. Freeman's For the Love Podcast Episode The Cozy Minimalist 17 Questions that Changed My Life by TIm Ferris Iris Murdoch Jamie B. Golden Westmore Beauty 60sec Eye Effect Guest’s Links: Myquillyn's Link's Myquillyn’s Website Myquillyn’s Instagram Myquillyn’s Facebook   Emily's Link's Emily’s Website Emily’s Instagram Emily’s Facebook Emily’s Twitter The Next Right Thing Podcast   Connect with Jen! Jen’s website Jen’s InstagramJen’s Twitter Jen’s FacebookJen’s YouTube To learn more about listener data and our privacy practices visit: https://www.audacyinc.com/privacy-policy Learn more about your ad choices. Visit https://podcastchoices.com/adchoices

It’s time for a good spring read–and what could be better than taking a literary trip to Paris in the spring? We are so excited to introduce you to Kerri Maher, the brilliant author of our latest book club pick, 'The Paris Bookseller.' Kerri is a rising star in the literary world, known for her captivating historical fiction that transports readers to different times and places. Kerri is the author of several critically acclaimed novels, including 'The Kennedy Debutante' and 'The Girl in White Gloves,' which have been praised for their historical detail and complex characters. In ‘The Paris Bookseller’, Kerri takes us to post-WWI Paris, where Maher brings to life Sylvia Beach, the founder of the bookstore Shakespeare and Company. 'The Paris Bookseller' is a tribute to the power of literature and the strength of women. Come be a part of the conversation here with us, and if you aren’t already a member of the Jen Hatmaker Book Club, jump on over to jenhatmakerbookclub.com after this episode to sign up!    Thought-Provoking Quotes: “It's amazing how much I learned about writing fiction from writing the truth.” - Kerri Maher “I spent a lot of time in the research stage of that novel feeling inadequate. Who am I to write about these people? I'm just some housewife with five unpublished novels in my attic. And two writer friends from very different parts of my writing life responded to that comment in almost exactly the same way. They were like, ‘but Kerri, this is your novel, isn't it? I was and that was very liberating to me.” - Kerri Maher “I've really had to embrace representing real people and real time periods. Yes,I want to absolutely do right by them. I want to kind of represent the truth of their essence.. But I also have to cop to the fact and respect the fact that these are my versions of these people.” - Kerri Maher   Kerri’s Links Kerri’s website Kerri’s Instagram Kerri’s Facebook Kerri’s Twitter Books & Resources Mentioned in This Episode The Kennedy Debutante book by Kerri Maher The Girl in White Gloves book by Kerri Maher All You Have to Do Is Call book by Kerri Maher The Paris Wife book by Paula McClain A Moveable Feast book by Ernest Hemingway Ulysses book by James Joyce  Tomorrow and Tomorrow and Tomorrow book by Gabrielle Zevin The House of Eve book by Sadeqa Johnson The Midnight Library by Matt Haig   Connect with Jen! Jen’s website Jen’s Instagram Jen’s Twitter Jen’s Facebook Jen’s YouTube To learn more about listener data and our privacy practices visit: https://www.audacyinc.com/privacy-policy Learn more about your ad choices. Visit https://podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Sometimes, bad things happen (obvi, right?). Many times, we know what’s happening to us in the moment is awful and wrong. We know that it’s painful. But sometimes, we don’t know how bad those things were until that pain shows up again in our lives, maybe years later, in a completely different way. And when these seemingly bad things come up, our lives are thrown into a tailspin—creating chaos and unhappiness and we’re not even even sure why. So how do we begin to identify the source of the darkness? How do we walk toward healing when the muck of our trauma is so deep we feel like we can’t move forward? Our guest this week has navigated through this very thing (and is still navigating it). The chaotic parts, the hard parts, the painful parts. Author and This American Life producer Stephanie Foo had found success in her thirties–working at her dream job and in a loving relationship. But behind her office door she was having panic attacks daily and sobbing at her desk. After years of questioning what was wrong (and blaming herself), she was diagnosed with complex PTSD–a condition that happens when trauma occurs again and again over many years. She was determined to understand this diagnosis, and the result of her findings is a beautiful and powerful memoir called What My Bones Know. Jen and Stephanie have an illuminating discussion around these topics:  The difference between PTSD and complex PTSD and why that’s an important distinction when it comes to healing How an unresolved mental health issue can impact our physical health, which can manifest (as it did for Stephanie) in panic attacks, joint issues, migraines, and endometriosis.  How our traumas can be handed down through previous generations through our genes, but also through how we were (or weren’t) nurtured.  What it feels like to pull back the curtain on our coping mechanisms to reveal why we react to things the way we do, or why we put up walls in safe places with safe people  Join us for this very real, raw, but gentle conversation as Stephanie’s story sheds light on how to walk away from chaos into healing.  * * * Thank you to our sponsors! Chime | Visit https://www.chime.com/apply-debit/?ad=podcast_forthelove to learn how you can benefit by using chime BetterHelp | Visit betterhelp.com/forthelove to save 10% on your first month! Make Me Care About…Podcast | Jen is hosting a special podcast series produced by the Bill & Melinda Gates Foundation. Check out "Make Me Care About..." wherever you get your podcasts.   Thought-Provoking Quotes “You can get traditional PTSD from a single traumatic event. So if you're in a car crash, you can get PTSD. Complex PTSD is kind of like if you were in that car crash every week for five years; it's when the trauma occurs over and over and over.” - Stephanie Foo “I felt scared all the time and I was burning out at work. I felt unable to actually produce. It was around 2018, and work had always been my constant source of comfort. And no matter how depressed or anxious I was, I would always be able to be productive. So when I found myself struggling to do that, I felt sort of lost.” - Stephanie Foo “I may have inherited my grandmother's desire and ability to hustle and that might be in my genes. It might be through nurture as well, not nature, and what I was taught as a child. It's kind of a mystery, but it certainly would explain a lot.” - Stephanie Foo   Guest’s Links: Stephanie’s Website Stepanie’s Instagram   Resources Mentioned in This Episode: Complex PTSD Malayan Emergency Road to Resilience Podcast  Elissa Bassist What My Bones Know - book by Stephanie Foo What My Bones Know Audiobook   Connect with Jen! Jen’s website Jen’s Instagram Jen’s Twitter Jen’s Facebook Jen’s YouTube   To learn more about listener data and our privacy practices visit: https://www.audacyinc.com/privacy-policy Learn more about your ad choices. Visit https://podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Welcome back, Chaos-breakers! We’re here trying to shake things up with another episode in our For the Love of Calming the Chaos–and this ones hitting us right where we live. Relationships; we’ve all got them, some we’re born into, others we choose, and others choose us. But what happens when certain relationships tax our energy, fill us with dread, and drain us of all ability to manage them? We have a great guide today to help us reframe relationships that have become dysfunctional, and how we can minimize the drama and chaos they bring. Therapist Nedra Tawwab is back on the show, and we couldn’t be happier. Nedra’s wildly popular Instagram account brings us life on the daily with her practical tips on recognizing when relationships are out of whack, how they might have gotten there, and how we can survive and thrive in the midst of it. Nedra has written two best selling books Set Boundaries, Find Peace: A Guide to Reclaiming Yourself, and Drama Free: A Guide to Managing Unhealthy Family Relationships. Nedra and Jen get into the following topics around eradicating relationship drama in our lives:  The sometimes difficult but very possible ways to begin creating healthy family dynamics  Finding the courage to have conversations with people when they hurt our feelings  How to create boundaries and what to do when those boundaries aren’t respected Learning how to discern love from dysfunction in our relationships Life is full of chaos and confusion, and it is important to find a balance between healthy relationships and self-care to maintain peace. Nedra provides us the tools to express ourselves, say no, and be open to uncomfortable conversations.  * * * Thank you to our sponsors!  Rothy’s | $20 off your first purchase by visiting Rothys.com/forthelove Make Me Care About…Podcast | Jen is hosting a special podcast series produced by the Bill & Melinda Gates Foundation. Check out "Make Me Care About..." wherever you get your podcasts.  Storyworth | Save $10 on your first purchase. Visit Storyworth.com/forthelove Thought-Provoking Quotes “Being a human is a lot of content in and of itself.” - Nedra Tawwab “Adulthood is really interesting because you have this opportunity to grow up and be your own person. But so many of us are still very much our parent's child. And I mean child in the sense that we’re a little child where [our parents] are still very much ruling what we’re able to do–at least when they're with us.” – Nedra Tawwab  “How often are we willing to have those conversations and let people know they hurt our feelings?” - Nedra Tawwab “We all have a different capacity to tolerate dysfunctional things.” - Nedra Tawwab “So we really have to disentangle love from dysfunction, because we often think that because I love these people, I have to accept the dysfunction.” - Nedra Tawwab “We have to decide how much we are willing to give of ourselves to be in certain relationships with people, family.” - Nedra Tawwab “The biggest thing we have to focus on is ourselves. And that's really hard because the really easy thing is to change the other person.” - Nedra Tawwab Guest’s Links Nedra’s Website Nedra’s Instagram Nedra’s Facebook  Resources Mentioned in This Episode Set Boundaries, Find Peace book by Nedra Tawwab Drama Free book by Nedra Tawwab Connect with Jen! Jen’s website Jen’s Instagram Jen’s Twitter Jen’s Facebook Jen’s YouTube To learn more about listener data and our privacy practices visit: https://www.audacyinc.com/privacy-policy Learn more about your ad choices. Visit https://podcastchoices.com/adchoices

We’re kicking off a new series called For The Love of Calming the Chaos and we’re looking at all the ways chaos invades our lives, how to identify what’s causing it, and how we can forge a way to calmness (at least some of the time). It’s one thing to be busy, tackling the everyday things that need to happen, to feel like you are pulled in a million different directions. It’s another thing to be overwhelmed, where a sense of hopelessness creeps in that the storm of chaos that surrounds your days might never subside. Author and speaker Alexis Jones hit a wall in a life that looked amazing from the outside, but was teeming with chaos and fear on the inside. After several hard-hitting circumstances knocked the wind out of her, she found herself unable to take even the tiniest step forward after living a life that had been full of activity and accomplishments, checking off all the right boxes–and realized she had lost sight of who she really was. Her latest book Joy Hunter: Messy Face Plants, Radical Love, and the Journey That Changed Everything details the story of how she found her way back to herself in the midst of the chaos–and you can too. Jen and Alexis talk about:  The moment Alexis realized how the “gift of falling apart” would show her what really mattered When a tidal wave of chaos causes us to falter, how we can take steps to do something differently What it means to be able to find true joy after true sorrow  How you can reconnect with a version of yourself that is real and authentic * * * Thank you to our sponsors! Betterhelp | 10% off your first month. Visit Betterhelp.com/forthelove Storyworth | Save $10 on your first purchase. Visit Storyworth.com/forthelove Make Me Care About | Jen is hosting a special podcast series produced by the Bill & Melinda Gates Foundation. Check out "Make Me Care About..." wherever you get your podcasts.    Thought-Provoking Quotes “If I don't have these things that I can pull out of my back pocket and impress you with, then maybe I'm not extraordinary at all. And maybe I am simply an ordinary girl. And for me, that was never enough.” - Alexis Jones “Every single thing that I'd ever thought made me matter, was taken away from me, one after another. And that was the most beautiful invitation I had ever been given to find out who I really was and to start that journey of enoughness.” - Alexis Jones “We live in a society where it's so easy to numb. It's so easy to distract ourselves so that we don't have to feel all the feelings that are uncomfortable.” - Alexis Jones “I did everything right. I played by the rules and I checked all the boxes and I did all the things. Aren't I supposed to be happy?” - Alexis Jones “An ordinary experience like sitting in an RV, eating canned chili with my best friend and my husband, watching an old movie, and thinking, this is the most joyful I have felt in years.” - Alexis Jones   Guest’s Links Alexis’ Website  Alexis’ Instagram Alexis’ Facebook Alexis’ Twitter   Resources Mentioned in This Episode I Am That Girl - book by Alexis Jones Joy Hunter - book by Alexis Jones   Connect with Jen! Jen’s website Jen’s Instagram Jen’s Twitter Jen’s Facebook Jen’s YouTube   To learn more about listener data and our privacy practices visit: https://www.audacyinc.com/privacy-policy Learn more about your ad choices. Visit https://podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Suleika Jaouad joins our show today to discuss her extraordinary book "Between Two Kingdoms." Suleika shares her story of receiving an early-in-life cancer diagnosis and the way that experience changed her relationship to her sense of community and hope.  Suleika is a journalist, writer, speaker, and cancer survivor. She has written for The New York Times, Vogue, and NPR and her memoir “Between Two Kingdoms” details her journey of being treated and recovering from leukemia at the age of twenty two.  Join Jen and Suleika as they discuss the following: Suleika's experience of being diagnosed with cancer at a young age and how it changed her perspective in life. The vital role of community and support during challenging times, and how Suleika's own community rallied around her during her illness. The challenges of writing a memoir and going from a journalist to a memoirist, professionally How to practice self compassion while experiencing “Big Grief” in all it’s different stages  * * * Thank you to our sponsors! Jen Hatmaker & Friends Cruise | Book your spot now at JenHatmaker.com/cruise Jen Hatmaker Book Club | Use code READ for $5 off your first month at jenhatmakerbookclub.com  Me Course — Sex | Sign up for the presale price at 40% off at mecourse.org   Thought-Provoking Quotes “I think as a culture we're so focused on positivity and self-improvement and on living our best lives that we sort of forget how to live in discomfort.” - Suleika Jouad  “We live in a culture where we're told that if we only work hard enough, we can live the life that we've always wanted to live. I've been told that my whole life. And you know, there's that saying that when you make plans, god laughs.” - Suleika Jouad  “I have a post-it note on my desk that's sort of my guiding light in terms of what I'm trying to do when I write. And it says, if you want to write a good book, write what you don't want others to know about you. Yeah. And if you want to write a great book, write what you don't want to know about yourself.” - Suleika Jouad  “With the distance of time, I see that what I initially thought of as a complete loss of my identity was actually an invitation to get closer to my truer self.” - Suleika Jouad  “I was a planner, I was a doer. I was someone who had a one year plan and a five year plan and a 10 year plan, and all of that went up in smoke when I got sick. Yeah. Um, and I realized that for much of my adult life, all four years of it at that point, uh, I really summed up my sense of self based on achievement, based on my work ethic, based on my output, based on my grade point average. Yep. And all of that was stripped away from me when I got sick. I lost my job overnight. I was dependent on my parents as much as I've been since elementary school. That's right. I lost my independence, even my ability to shower alone, which for someone who doesn't like to ask for help, who had always thought of myself as fiercely independent, that was a hard pill to swallow.” -Suleika Jouad    Guest Links Suleika Jouad Website Suleika’s Instagram - @suleikajaouad Suleika’s Twitter - @suleikajaouad Suleik’s Facebook - @SuleikaJaouadPage   Books & Resources Mentioned in This Episode “Wolfish” by Erica Berry “Heads of the Colored People” by Nafissa Thompson-Spires “Nonviolent Communication” by Marshall B. Rosenberg PhD    Connect with Jen! Jen’s website Jen’s Instagram Jen’s Twitter Jen’s Facebook Jen’s YouTube   To learn more about listener data and our privacy practices visit: https://www.audacyinc.com/privacy-policy Learn more about your ad choices. Visit https://podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Are you smack dab in the middle of the Sandwich Years? That precarious time where you’re squeezed between the demands of caring for aging parents and still supporting children? We’re here for you, and we’ve got a friend to the show who is living it out in real time, sharing how she’s getting through it all. Jenny Hutt was the host of the Just Jenny Show on Sirius XM and is now hosting her own daily podcast–all while dealing with the long-term care of her father (and his recent death) and the launching of her adult children out into the world. Jenny and Jen discuss unique issues relevant to the Sandwich Generation: Learning to re-calibrate your role as a parent in the lives of your newly “launched into the world” kids Dealing with unresolved parent/child issues that sometimes arise with the death of a parent Recognizing generational anxiety and equipping ourselves and our children with the tools to handle it The importance of relying on a strong network of family and friends to draw from during this time (not being afraid to ask for help).  Having the hard conversations with your parents about being prepared for their passing (and also making sure you’re taking care of that for your children too) So whether you’re managing being part of the sandwich generation right now, or you’re mentally preparing yourself for it, or you know someone who is facing it head on, there’s something for all of us to take away from this candid and vulnerable convo with Jen and Jenny. * * * Thank you to our sponsors! FOCL | Your personal dream team of premium hemp CBD + 5 soothing botanicals for a full night of deep, restorative sleep. Get 20% off at FOCL.com using code FORTHELOVE.  MeCourse on Parenting Tweens & Teens | Get help parenting during the tween and teen years from Jen and Mercedes Samudio. Visit mecourse.org and sign up today!    Thought-Provoking Quotes “Somebody should have said to us before we had kidS: ‘you're gonna have children and you're gonna be tired and it's gonna be fun when they're babies, but it's also gonna be awful when they're babies. And then, they're gonna grow up and they're gonna leave you. And when they leave you, you're gonna feel like they're gone for good. And you're also gonna feel like you are not gonna make it.’” - Jenny Hutt “While your parents are still healthy is when you have to have the conversation [about their affairs] and it's pretty simple. It's things like if there are bank accounts, designate somebody to automatically have the bank account upon your death.” - Jenny Hutt “Ask [your older parents] all the questions you want answers to, because if you don't ask them now, as uncomfortable as they might be, you're never gonna be able to ask them.” - Jenny Hutt “We all find our purpose at different points in our lives. I think that one of my biggest purposes is to show that you can live through things that feel like you can't live through them.” - Jenny Hutt   Guest’s Links Website Just Jenny Podcast Instagram Twitter Facebook YouTube   Resources Mentioned in This Episode Bunny Eyez Eyewear For You When I Am Gone by Rabbi Steve Leder   Connect with Jen! Jen’s website Jen’s Instagram Jen’s Twitter Jen’s Facebook Jen’s YouTube To learn more about listener data and our privacy practices visit: https://www.audacyinc.com/privacy-policy Learn more about your ad choices. Visit https://podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Another special bonus episode from the “Make Me Care About” podcast from the Gates Foundation with our own Jen Hatmaker talking with another amazing expert about things we may not know about and if we did–we would definitely care! When it goes well, giving birth can be a wonderful experience, but when it goes wrong, it can be deadly for mother and child alike. Too often, where you live, your access to quality care, and in some places–the color of your skin–determines whether or not you live or die during birth. In this episode, we have the privilege of hearing from journalist, activist, and mom Elaine Welteroth.  Join Jen and Elaine as they discuss: How many women die every year during childbirth and pregnancy  The factors and risks contributing to mortality rates Why these deaths are preventable  The increased likelihood of death for Black mothers Why the United States has the highest number of maternal deaths among high income countries Gates Foundation & Guest Links Make Me Care About Podcast Series Gates Foundation  Elaine Welteroth’s website   Resources for this Episode Gender equality strategy Maternal, infant, and child health    Connect with Jen! Jen’s Website Jen’s Instagram Jen’s Twitter Jen’s Facebook Jen’s YouTube To learn more about listener data and our privacy practices visit: https://www.audacyinc.com/privacy-policy Learn more about your ad choices. Visit https://podcastchoices.com/adchoices

In this episode of our For the Love of the Middle series, renowned clinical psychologist Dr. Shefali returns to the show to discuss her concept of conscious parenting. Those of us in the middle of life who may still be parenting kids at home, or adjusting to parenting adult children who have just launched out into the world–or in any season of the parenting journey, really–will find much to learn as we look back (and forward) at our parenting patterns. Dr. Shefali provides a step-by-step roadmap to help free parents and their children from toxic patterns and expectations, while building a lasting meaningful bond with them. Using her book as a guide, she will introduce us to the five patterns of ego, show us some varying parenting styles (including helping Jen unpack her own parenting style), develop a mindful focus on self-control, and tips on how we can encourage our adult children to parent themselves. Jen and the good doctor will hit some big topics that will inform not only parents, but those of us who wish to discover how we were parented, and how it impacts us now; including:  Walking through the definition of conscious parenting and the three stages of the parenting map Debunking the notion that as parents we are supposed to create happy, perfect superhumans by following traditional parenting rules Dismissing the notion that there are good kids and bad kids—and how to avoid using these labels   Revealing the five ego patterns parents that parents might not even realize inform their quest to raise amazing children The three reasons why children act out or misbehave and how you can learn not to shame them for it The results of over-parenting and how it shows up in your adult children It’s never too late to become a mindful parent and set an intention to allow your children to become centerstage in their own lives. * * * Thank you to our sponsors! Thought-Provoking Quotes “The evolution of the planet depends on the evolution of the parent.” - Dr. Shefali “Everyone wants a new tomorrow. But what we don't realize is that a new future comes with an absolute willingness to disrupt the past.” - Dr. Shefali “There is no such thing as a good kid or a bad kid. We put these labels based on an egoic agenda. So, what kind of kids are there? Just kids–just humans who are terribly flawed like we are, and terribly, but amazingly blissful like we are. They're just this unique combo and they defy labels.” - Dr. Shefali “The good girl taken to the extreme becomes self-sacrificial and she begins to lose her sense of self–it typically happens with girls. Then she's in her mid forties and she's like, ‘who am I?’” - Dr. Shefali  “Conscious parenting is not something you are, it's something you become.” - Dr. Shefali “Punishment, shaming, blaming is never sustainable. I cannot tell you how many times a day I tell parents, ‘Listen, you appear to get control in the moment, but long term, it's going to be unforgiving.’” - Dr. Shefali “How do we constantly show our presence [to our adult children]? Unequivocal cheerleading. ‘I'm thinking of you. I miss you. I'm remembering you. I I adore you.’ Letting them know they are on our mind, but not involved in their day-to-day. - Dr. Shefali “When the ego crumbles, proportionately the heart expands, and you then are just this heart-centered being able to connect to other people in a very attuned, compassionate, genuine way. And your children will feel it.” - Dr. Shefali   Guest’s Links Dr. Shefali’s website Dr. Shefali’s Instagram Dr. Shefali’s Facebook   Resources Mentioned in This Episode “The Conscious Parent” by Dr. Shefali “The Parenting Map” by Dr. Shefali Dr. Shefali’s previous interview on For the Love   Connect with Jen! Jen’s website Jen’s Instagram Jen’s Twitter Jen’s Facebook Jen’s YouTube   To learn more about listener data and our privacy practices visit: https://www.audacyinc.com/privacy-policy Learn more about your ad choices. Visit https://podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Another special bonus episode from the “Make Me Care About” podcast from the Gates Foundation with our own Jen Hatmaker talking with another amazing expert about things we may not know or care about, but should! This episode gives us the privilege of speaking with Surabhi Rajaram, a Program Officer at the Bill & Melinda Gates Foundation who focuses on improving immunization delivery. We dive deep into the world of safe syringes, and why they are so important in saving lives. Surabhi Rajaram is a true expert in her field, with years of experience at the forefront of improving global health. Today she shares her knowledge on the features of an auto-disabled syringe, and how it physically prevents the user from being able to withdraw the syringe again, ultimately preventing the spread of illness. Join Jen and Surabhi as they discuss: Why safe syringes are so important to effective vaccine delivery The importance of investing in scalable syringe manufacturing Improving immunization delivery for a safer world How preparing for disease threats like COVID requires syringe innovation  Our guest shares their life’s work around investing in safe and effective syringe manufacturing and delivery and how each of us can make a difference in the world of global health by learning more about this important topic.    Gates Foundation & Guest Links Make Me Care About Podcast Series Gates Foundation  Guest Surabhi Rajaram’s website   Resources for this Episode Vaccine Development and Surveillance Long Term Vaccine Development in Africa PATH Syringe GAP analysis UNICEF Syringes explainer video   Connect with Jen! Jen’s Website Jen’s Instagram Jen’s Twitter Jen’s Facebook Jen’s YouTube To learn more about listener data and our privacy practices visit: https://www.audacyinc.com/privacy-policy Learn more about your ad choices. Visit https://podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Continuing in our For the Love of the Middle series, we’re having a conversation about something that may impact us as we hit those middle years (or sooner)–caring for our aging parents. With us to be our guide through this sometimes difficult journey is Michelle Boyaner, the director of the documentary film "It's Not a Burden: The Humor and Heartache of Raising Elderly Parents.” As a storyteller, Michelle felt compelled to talk about this particular stage of life, and decided to film her own journey through it with her mother to help others embrace this unique time in a family’s evolution. Jen and Michelle explore the highs and the lows of caregiving for aging parents and how to stay sane and open hearted during the process.  Michelle Boyaner is an award-winning filmmaker, writer, and educator who founded production company Greenie Films with her wife, Barbara Greene. Together they have written, directed and produced a variety of short and feature films that tell stories of caring for aging parents, living with HIV and the challenges of mental illness–all told with their signature humor and deep capacity for compassion.  Join Jen and Michelle as they discuss:  How to know when it's time to step in with your aging parents Honoring and managing your parents feelings of not wanting to be a burden Finding humor in the challenging moments  Why caregivers feel so lonely, even when there are so many in the U.S.  Moving from anger and frustration with difficult parental relationships to forgiveness  We hope you’ll feel less alone on your caregiving journey as Michelle provides practical advice and encouragement as well as some tough love for those in the middle of this common but not often discussed major life experience. * * * Thank you to our sponsors! Chime | Increase your credit score with the Chime app! Get a higher credit score today at www.chime.com/ForTheLove  Boll&Branch | These are the softest sheets ever. Get 15% off your best night's sleep at www.BollandBranch.com using promo code ForTheLove.    Thought-Provoking Quotes “How do you know it’s the right time to step in? If you see a cognitive difference, if there's a change like they're forgetting things–for example, my mom left her keys on the top of the car and sat in the car and didn't know why she couldn't start the car. That’s when you might want to consider stepping in. But how do I start that conversation? How can I place my hand on theirs and then gently sort of take the reins? It’s a tough thing to consider.” - Michelle Boyaner “By the time we get to this place in life [of caring for our] parents, you are playing a montage of their greatest hits and misses, right?” - Michelle Boyaner “It’s important to stay engaged with the humor of all situations if you can. That humor is this little cup of water that helps us in between the hard moments. Caring for aging parents has its absurd moments and leaning into the humor of it can sustain us.” - Michelle Boyaner  “You're going to make mistakes. But the thing that becomes most important for those going through caring for an aging parent is to try to find support. Try to find others who have been going through the same thing and ask questions. Talk about how you're feeling. Take care of yourself to fill your tank so that you can help fill your parents' tank.” - Michelle Boyaner    Michelle’s Links Twitter Facebook Instagram   Books & Resources Mentioned in This Episode Greenie Films Webpage Greenie Films: Packed in a Trunk: The Lost Art of Edith Lake Wilkinson, It’s Not a Burden; The Humor and Heartache of Raising Elderly Parents, All Around the Nation, Finished Life by Michelle Boyaner Instagram Account by Heather Spooner: Letter League  Liz Hammond’s Poem: “The women who walk us home”   Connect with Jen! Jen’s Website Jen’s Instagram Jen’s Twitter Jen’s Facebook Jen’s YouTube   To learn more about listener data and our privacy practices visit: https://www.audacyinc.com/privacy-policy Learn more about your ad choices. Visit https://podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Hey there, For the Love Podcast community! We’re excited to share some bonus  episodes from a new podcast from the Gates Foundation, hosted by our very own Jen Hatmaker! It's all about getting to know the innovators who are out there changing the world and opening our minds to things that we might not otherwise think about much, like this first episode–poop! You can look forward to several of these bonus episodes popping into your feed that feature amazing conversations with experts who have shared their insights on the importance of things like sanitation systems, syringes, and even digital money. Our first episode in the series is all about…Poop! Jen speaks with expert Shannon Yee, an associate professor at the G.W.W. School of Mechanical Engineering at the Georgia Institute of Technology.    Jen and Shannon discuss:   How safe sanitation is a cornerstone of human health and society. Where poop goes when it leaves our bathrooms. The importance of investing in safe, scalable bathroom technologies now for future generations When will water scarcity impact our bathrooms and what to do about it.   Find out about what happens every time you flush in this very special debut episode.  To learn more about listener data and our privacy practices visit: https://www.audacyinc.com/privacy-policy Learn more about your ad choices. Visit https://podcastchoices.com/adchoices

We’re back in the middle of life with another installment of our “For the Love of the Middle” series. This episode marks the return of the amazing Dr. Jim Burns to the show. He is an author and founder of HomeWord, a non-profit organization aimed at helping families and individuals strengthen their relationships. Dr. Burns has over three decades of experience as a speaker and is the author of books such as “Life With Your Adult Children” and “Finding Joy in the Empty Nest”.   With his typical humor and self-awareness, Dr. Burns draws from his own experiences as a father in the middle of life–and also shares insights from his vast experience working with families and individuals. In this interview he touches on topics like loneliness in older adults, coping with post-divorce friendships, and enabling versus helping your adult children. Join Jen and Dr. Jim Burns as they discuss:  Navigating the loneliness felt by those 50 and older and how to prepare for that early on. Finding meaningful friendships as a single person in a coupled world. Giving advice to adult children without sounding critical. When helping becomes enabling with adult children. Easing the burden of the Empty Nest by investing in hobbies and community. Jen and Dr. Burns offer practical advice for maintaining and cultivating adult friendships and how to move through the challenges of parenting adult children with grace. * * * Thank you to our sponsors! BetterHelp | Try convenient and affordable therapy with BetterHelp anytime, anywhere. Give BetterHelp a try and get 10% off your first month at BetterHelp.com/ForTheLove  Thought-Provoking Quotes “One of the positive things that I saw was that the people who had good adult friends are the people who did well early on and made decisions to join a club and put themselves out there to meet people outside of the soccer games and kid friends. That planning in advance really helped with the empty nest syndrome.” -Dr. Jim Burns “American adults at 50+ tend to be very lonely people. In fact, there's a lot of studies on this and it's because they don't have replenishing relationships.You know, one of the best phrases that I have in my head on this is, a you know, successful and a well lived life is never accidental. And that takes time.” -Dr. Jim Burns “If we are always giving our kids advice, which we have been pretty good at for 20 of their years, that advice can be taken as criticism. Even if it's good advice! What they see is that you don't trust them to be an adult.” -Dr. Jim Burns “What we have to understand as parents, just like when they were five, is that the experience is a better teacher than advice. So you can say to your kid, "Don't touch that fire." But they're gonna touch the fire sometime and then they'll quit touching the fire because they did it one time and it burnt. But it's really hard for us as parents to trust them to learn from their own experiences.” -Dr. Jim Burns “As a parent, the question we have to ask is, are we helping or are we enabling dependency? And a lot of parents I think are enabling dependency as in, they mean to help. But sometimes we're enabling dependency and doing that in a way that doesn't help.” - Dr. Jim Burns   Jim’s Links Website: www.homeword.com Facebook: @JimBurns Twitter: @DrJimBurns Instagram: @drjimburns YouTube: @homewordtoday   Books & Resources Mentioned in This Episode Homeward New Life Live Dr. Burns Books: Finding Joy in the Empty Nest, Life with Your Adult Children Dr. Burns on Jen Hatmaker in 2018    Connect with Jen! Jen’s Website Jen’s InstagramJen’s Twitter Jen’s FacebookJen’s YouTube To learn more about listener data and our privacy practices visit: https://www.audacyinc.com/privacy-policy Learn more about your ad choices. Visit https://podcastchoices.com/adchoices

It’s here! Our next series, “For the Love of the Middle” kicks off this week. Many of us are at that middle stage of life, and if we aren’t, we’re going to get there eventually. This series brings life, hope and humor to a period of life which can at times be surprising, confusing, but ultimately, steeped in the wisdom of years lived and the harder work of our 20’s and 30’s behind us. We’re ringing in the start of this series with an amazing first guest; Mary Pipher, a clinical psychologist, anthropologist, and author. In her full scope of work, Mary has pioneered important conversations around motherhood and raising girls.  Mary was the first to bring the effects of culture on mental health to the mainstream, especially for women and girls. She has a deep understanding of how culture can shape our thoughts, feelings, and behavior. Her most recent work has focused on aging intentionally, peppered with her own experience and her work has inspired many people to rethink the way we approach mental health and aging within our society. Join Mary and Jen as they discuss:  - Pipher's background in psychology and how she became engaged in the cultural conversations about girlhood. - The importance of cultivating personal resilience and adaptability in aging. - How society impacts the mental health of girls and women at different stages of life. - The cultural scripts that influence girls' body image and sexuality, and how they differ from reality. - The role of caregivers and the challenges they face in taking care of aging family members. Mary Pipher's work is groundbreaking in exploring the connections between culture, mental health, and their impacts on aging. Her insights are instrumental in shaping the way we approach mental health issues and caregiving, and her activism and writing continue to help women all over the world. Thank you to our sponsors! Boll & Branch | These are the softest sheets ever. Get 15% off your best night's sleep at www.BollandBranch.com using promo code ForTheLove.  Jen Hatmaker & Friends Cruise | Book your spot now at JenHatmaker.com/cruise   MeCourse | Let’s join sexologist Dr. Celeste Holbrook and Jen as they talk about real steps you can take to improve your sex life. Head to MeCourse.org/love101 to register.   Thought-Provoking Quotes! “One of the things I really love about my life as a 75 year old is I'm very busy, but I can wake up every morning and decide what I want to be busy at. And what a gift that is.” - Mary Pipher “Every life stage has its joys and its challenges as you know. We know that there's a lot of research that women get happier as they age. They're the happiest demographic in the world.” - Mary Pipher “if you don't become better, you become bitter. Right? You either grow or you shrink. You don't get to stay the same without growing. We all age, but we don't all grow. And the secret of being happy is growing.” -Mary Pipher “I very much believe we all find what we're looking for. And if what we're looking for is joy and love and kindness and beauty and laughter, that's what we find.” -Mary Pipher “So one of the goals of this life state is learning to detach and let go--acceptance of the fact that my world will not be as popular as before. And that means that the light I find is not in other people's eyes, it's gotta be in my own heart.” -Mary Pipher   Guest’s Links! Mary Pipher's Website - www.marypipher.com Mary Pipher's Facebook - @authormarypiper Books & Resources Mentioned in This Episode Mary Pipher's Books: Hunger Pains, the American Woman's Tragic Quest for Thinness, Reviving Ophelia, Women Rowing North, Seeking Peace, The Shelter of Each Other Simone De Beauvoir: The Second Sex Jane Jarvis - American Jazz Pianist   Connect with Jen! Jen’s website Jen’s InstagramJen’s Twitter Jen’s FacebookJen’s YouTube To learn more about listener data and our privacy practices visit: https://www.audacyinc.com/privacy-policy Learn more about your ad choices. Visit https://podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Every person is sexy just because they’re alive, according to this week’s guest in our For the Love of Sex Series; Dr. Alexandra Solomon. Jen & Dr. Solomon talk about how we can discover how to engage with our sexuality free from judgment or expectation.  Dr. Alexandra Solomon is the author of bestselling books, “Loving Bravely” and “Taking Sexy Back” which both seek to empower women to reclaim their sexual journeys. As a highly acclaimed psychologist at Northwestern University, Dr. Solomon regularly presents her findings to people all over the world.  Join Dr. Solomon and Jen as they discuss: Talking about sex with your partner  How to stop settling for less in the bedroom  Objectively reflecting on your sexual journey without judgment The real impact of trauma on our sexual selves How desire shifts over the course of a relationship  Dr. Solomon explains the basic premise that undergirds her work; that every person has the right and ability to experience pleasure and joy and connection through sex. * * * Thank you to our sponsors! Thought-Provoking Quotes: “What stands out first and foremost about women and sex is that we are so completely objectified from the time we're little. That's the nature of patriarchy, is to objectify women. And we learn to objectify ourselves. I don't know how it is for you, but I know I have forever related to my body as a forever fixer-upper project.”- Dr. Alexandra Solomon “There's an idea that sexiness is defined from the outside in. So in my book, "Taking Sexy Back," that's what we're taking back. We're taking back this idea that sexiness is externally defined. That actually, our “sexy” lives right here inside of us, and it always has. Your sexuality is a part of yourself. It's a part of who you are. It's your embodied relationship with touch and physical expression and pleasure and creativity and play.” - Dr. Alexandra Solomon “There's going to be dry spells. There's going to be mismatched libidos. There's going to be menopause. There's going to be childbirth and job changes and medical diagnoses. Things are going to happen. So I want couples to be together, shoulder to shoulder, looking at the problem together. It's not my problem or your problem. It's us looking at our sexual connection. How do we as a couple cultivate this, nurture it, tweak it over time? Making love as 50-year-olds is going to look and feel different than making love as 23-year-olds.” - Dr. Alexandra Solomon “We think that if we're sex positive, it means that we're these super confident vixens and divas, and that we have to be up for anything. But we all struggle with this idea of, "Wait, can I be sex positive and a bit timid? Can I be sex positive and what we would call, quote-unquote, 'vanilla,' or not super interested in being kinky or pushing edges? Sex positivity basically means coming in with the idea that sex is natural and normal, and we're all sexual, and what we're interested in is not weird or pathological. It's coming in from a foundation of positivity.” - Dr. Alexandra Solomon Guest’s Links: Dr. Solomon’s Website  Dr. Solomon’s Instagram - @dr.alexandra.solomon Dr. Solomon’s Twitter - @ahsolomon Dr. Solomon’s Facebook - @dralexandrasolomon Dr. Solomon’s YouTube - @alexandrahs1   Books & Resources Mentioned in This Episode: Reimagining Love Podcast Dr. Solomon’s books: Loving Bravely & Taking Sexy Back E-Course: Marriage 101 for the Grown and Sexy   Connect with Jen! Jen’s website Jen’s Instagram Jen’s Twitter Jen’s Facebook Jen’s YouTube    To learn more about listener data and our privacy practices visit: https://www.audacyinc.com/privacy-policy Learn more about your ad choices. Visit https://podcastchoices.com/adchoices

As part of Jen’s dedication to bringing her community sex education and sexual liberation, we’re opening up a book club episode to everyone. Today Jen’s talking to the original badass sex educator — Emily Nagoski.  Emily created a sea change in the wider culture of how we talk about women’s sexuality and make space for the variety of experiences for women and sex. Since then, she’s become a celebrated speaker and the go-to expert on women’s sexuality. She recently updated “Come as You Are” as the sex science evolved and we’re excited to talk about it. In this Jen Hatmaker Book Club episode, Jen and Emily discuss: Sex not being a biological drive Connecting to your own body as a birthright Your sexuality being yours and pleasure is the measure of it The weight on women to perform pleasure The power of mindfulness and connecting to your body How to maintain a successful long term sexual relationship with a partner * * * Thank you to our sponsors! Jen Hatmaker & Friends Cruise | Book your spot now at JenHatmaker.com/cruise Jen Hatmaker Book Club | Use code READ for $5 off your first month at jenhatmakerbookclub.com  Me Course — Sex | Sign up for the presale price at 40% off at mecourse.org   Thought-Provoking Quotes “Pleasure is the measure. It is not how often you have sex or how much you crave sex. It is not what you do. It is not who you do it with, or in what room, or in what position. It is whether or not you like the sex you are having.” - Emily Nagoski “If a feeling happens in you and you're like, "I don't know where this is coming from," that's totally fine. Insight is not required. But in the same way that we complete the stress response cycle, feelings are tunnels, you have to go through the darkness to get to the light at the end.” - Emily Nagoski “We are in a bad moment around trans rights, around gay rights, around reproductive rights. A very dark moment where misogyny is rising, violence against the LGBTQIA2+ community is rising, and I think a conversation that centers with women's sexual pleasure is a very moderate place to be having a conversation. People can have a conversation and feel confident talking about their own sexual pleasure, which makes it easier to recognize that, "Oh, everyone has a right to this. Everyone has a right to basic bodily autonomy. Everyone has a right to experience the pleasure their body is capable of experiencing." - Emily Nagoski “When you release pain, it means you have to move through this pain, and a lot of us have spent a very long time hiding from, or medicating, or just tolerating an incredible, intense amount of pain and suffering that was imposed on us, that we never chose for ourselves, and we know that we can just keep marching forward with that pain. And the first dip your toe into processing those difficult experiences feels terrifying.” - Emily Nagoski “bodies are a disappointment sometimes. They are complicated, and people have feelings about them, but you get this life, your body is the one and only thing you have on the day you're born, that you still have with you on the day you die, and it's the gift that there is of living a human life.” - Emily Nagoski “There's not a linear progression from broken to normal to perfect. That is not how sex works. We are all always moving through the cycle from the wounds that were created in our bodies in the first couple few decades of our lives to the healing that we're doing for ourselves now.” - Emily Nagoski   Guest Links Dr. Emily’s Website Dr. Emily’s Instagram Dr. Emily’s Facebook   Books & Resources Mentioned in This Episode Burnout: The Secret to Unlocking the Stress Cycle Book Come as You Are Book   Connect with Jen! Jen’s website Jen’s Instagram Jen’s Twitter Jen’s Facebook Jen’s YouTube To learn more about listener data and our privacy practices visit: https://www.audacyinc.com/privacy-policy Learn more about your ad choices. Visit https://podcastchoices.com/adchoices

As our guest today says, “Everybody is here because somebody had sex.” Today we talk to Brandon Kyle Goodman about coming out from the shadows of your own desire. We’re looking at a new era of sex positivity in pop culture and in our lives. In this episode we explore themes from Brandon’s book: You Gotta Be You: How to Embrace This Messy Life and Step Into Who You Really Are.  Listen as Jen and Brandon discuss: Sex in Culture, The Importance of Diverse Representation Subverting Gender Norms in the Bedroom  Understanding Brandon’s Non-Binary Gender Identity  Exploring your Sexual Identity with Radical Self Acceptance and Love Coming Out and the Importance of Chosen Family It’s a new day for sex in our media, our bedrooms, and in our minds and hearts! This conversation illustrates the unbelievable freedom to be found in honoring your sexual identity. Share a moment with Jen and Brandon as they walk the path towards personal sexual liberation and finding peace within yourself.  * * * Thank you to our sponsors! Thought-Provoking Quotes: “I fully believe that if you can tap into the vulnerability in the bedroom, you'll find your power everywhere else.” - Brandon Kyle Goodman “I always say self-love is the thing that saved my life. It is real. Loving yourself and knowing that you're worthy and filling your cup up. Pop culture tells you that your body, your skin, your gender is wrong. It is a radical act to love yourself in our world, but get about the business because on the other side of that is a life worth living.” - Brandon Kyle Goodman “All of us exist because somebody had sex. That's how this works. That's why you're here, so why are we pretending our parents don't do it? It's all as you said, it's a separate thing. It's put in a box and we don’t talk about it. Why can't we all be talking and learning and exploring and saying, "Oh, how did you ask about that? How did you get him to do that? How did you get her to do that? How did you navigate this?" The more we don't talk about it, the more shame we have, and so sex positivity is so important.” -Brandon Kyle Goodman “There's so much shame I think that queer folks inherently have around their sexuality. I think women also have this. No, I don't think–I know women also have this. Our bodies are policed, our sexuality is policed.” - Brandon Kyle Goodman “I would say you have one life. Are you going to live it for you? Or you can live it for somebody else. I had a teacher who was in the closet and I found out after his mother passed that he finally came out, but at that point, he was in his 50s, and now it's this whole life that you've missed for this other person. Do it in your own time, but don't miss out on your life for somebody else's approval.” -Brandon Kyle Goodman “Let's hold multiple truths. Multiple things get to be true. The freedom to be you can be liberating and allow you to live your best life, but also there is a pain and a sadness and a longing from losing the people that may not be able to support you on that journey.” -Brandon Kyle Goodman Brandon’s Links Website: www.brandonkylegoodman.com Insta: @brandonkylegoodman Twitter: @brandonkgood Youtube: @brandonkgood Books & Resources Mentioned in This Episode: Brandon Kyle Goodman acts and writes for shows: Big Mouth, and Human Resources on Netflix  Brandon Kyle Goodman’s Book “You Gotta Be You: How to Embrace This Messy Life and Step Into Who You Really Are” Tricia Hersey’s Book “The Nap Ministry”  The Nap Ministry’s Instagram  Connect with Jen! Jen’s website Jen’s Instagram Jen’s Twitter Jen’s Facebook Jen’s YouTube To learn more about listener data and our privacy practices visit: https://www.audacyinc.com/privacy-policy Learn more about your ad choices. Visit https://podcastchoices.com/adchoices

For this episode of the Sex series, we’re getting some adult sex education we wished we had learned when we were younger. Specifically around messages young men received around sex, and how this now manifests with toxic masculinity which unfortunately, seeps into the bedroom. Our guest today helps us find ways we can change these sexual narratives. While not all of us are in sexual relationships with men, the reality is that the way in which men perceive their status in the bedroom affects their roles outside of the bedroom. And when toxic masculinity is driving that inner monologue, we all lose. So today we’re addressing the ways this can affect us all, not only the cis hetero men in our lives.    A licensed sex coach and therapist, Cam Fraser teaches sex education for cis hetero men and their partners. As someone who has been hurt by unhealthy masculine culture, he’s passionate about changing toxic masculine narratives that affect us all, and freeing men up to be the fully realized humans they are longing to be (whether they know it or not).     In this episode, Cam and Jen discuss: Ideas on how to start conversations with your partner about sex Desire discrepancies in relationships and the difference between responsive and spontaneous libido Taking responsibility for your own arousal The spectrum of intimacy inside and outside the bedroom Unhealthy sexual narratives that feed toxic masculinity * * * Thank you to our sponsors! Betterhelp | Visit BetterHelp.com/ForTheLove to get 10% off your first month Thirdlove | Visit ThirdLove.com/forthelove and get 20% off your first order   Thought-Provoking Quotes "I think that it is a very detrimental story we are telling each other as men--that men's libido is high and unwavering and it's just purely physical, there's no emotions attached to it--men just want sex all the time. And women are telling men that too because we all got that same story." - Cam Fraser “Overall we see a lot of over-pathologizing, over-medicalizing of male sexuality. I think that's a real issue, but one of the major ones I see is, "Oh, I'm not man enough because I don't want sex all the time," or, "I'm not jumping my partner every five minutes, so I must be broken.” - Cam Fraser “It's important to understand. There's a difference between physical arousal and mental subjective arousal.” - Cam Fraser “I think we live in quite a sex and pleasure negative society. And so conversations around sex are still, even though we're pushing for them to be more mainstream, they're still considered quite taboo.” - Cam Fraser “Conversations around sex can be really charged. If you're able to take some of the intensity out of those conversations and take some of the seriousness out of those conversations and keep it a little bit more playful, keep it a little bit more curious and lighthearted, then that's going to serve you well.” - Cam Fraser “There is a need for men to diversify their intimacy in terms of how they get their intimacy needs met.” - Cam Fraser “It's super important to have intimacy needs met in a diverse amount of ways. Because if you don't and then you get into a relationship and your partner is the only person that you can do that with, you're putting a lot of pressure and responsibility on your own as well and that can be detrimental to a relationship.” - Cam Fraser   Cam’s Links Cam's Instagram - @thecamfraser Cam's TikTok - @thecamfraser2.0 Cam’s Website   Books & Resources Mentioned in This Episode Dan Savage Website  Brené Brown's episode with Jen Hatmaker Trevor Noah on Lack of Male Intimacy   Connect with Jen! Jen’s Website Jen’s Instagram Jen’s Twitter Jen’s Facebook Jen’s YouTube   To learn more about listener data and our privacy practices visit: https://www.audacyinc.com/privacy-policy Learn more about your ad choices. Visit https://podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Calling all book nerds! Are you looking for a place where your book-loving heart can flourish? Join us at jenhatmakerbookclub.com, and become one of our sisters in nerdiness. For January 2023 we’re excited to connect with an author who worked with Supreme Court Justice Ruth Bader Ginsburg and penned a book featuring her many writings and thoughts titled My Own Words.. As one of Judge Ginsburg’s official biographers, Mary selected the writings and co-wrote the introductions to each chapter, providing biographical context and quotes gleaned from hundreds of interviews they had the pleasure of conducting the illustrious RGB. She shares about the special moments she had with the judge herself, in addition to some of her more notable writings, which are truly inspiring.  * * * Thank you to our sponsors! Jen Hatmaker & Friends Cruise | Book your spot now at JenHatmaker.com/cruise Jen Hatmaker Book Club | Use code READ for $5 off your first month at jenhatmakerbookclub.com  Me Course — Sex | Sign up for the presale price at 40% off at mecourse.org   Thought-Provoking Quotes “Sometimes I think people become famous and important, and then they say, ‘Okay, now I can throw a few scraps.’ But this was not [Ruth Bader Ginsburg] from the very beginning. Even in her very first briefs, she would cite in the brief, or even put as an author of the brief, someone whose work she found incredibly important with their permission, even though they had nothing to do with the case. It meant a lot to her to give credit to others who had inspired her. “ - Mary Hartnett “[Judge Ginsburg] did see that especially for younger people, learning the story and in really challenging times to represent this idea that things still can be better and more fair for everyone in the future, I think she got that.” - Mary Hartnett “[Judge Ginsburg] strongly believed that gender equality is good for everyone. Gender discrimination hurts everyone. It hurts men, women, others, children, our society, our country, our world. And so she firmly believed that.” - Mary Hartnett “Change wasn't just this intellectual thing that mattered to her. It was changing individuals' lives so that a young girl could hope to be a Supreme Court Justice or an astronaut. Not just a boy could have those hopes and dreams.” - Mary Hartnett “Everyone can't be Ruth Bader Ginsburg, but everyone can do something on the issues that they care about, which may be completely different than the issues that she cared about.” - Mary Hartnett   Guest’s Links Mary Hartnett Author Page   Connect with Jen! Jen’s website Jen’s Instagram Jen’s Twitter Jen’s Facebook Jen’s YouTube To learn more about listener data and our privacy practices visit: https://www.audacyinc.com/privacy-policy Learn more about your ad choices. Visit https://podcastchoices.com/adchoices

As part of our For the Love of Sex series, we are talking to a Hollywood intimacy coordinator about the nitty gritty of consent, the emerging role of intimacy coordinators in Hollywood, and the future of creating consent culture on film and TV sets. There are ripple effects into the wider culture at large that happen when we prioritize safety and consent. A viral content creator on TikTok and CEO of her own company, Jessica Steinrock is helping change the way we understand consent on TV & film sets. Our favorite quote of hers is ‘’‘Yes’ means nothing unless ‘No’ is an option.”    In this episode, Jessica and Jen discuss: The historical context of consent in film and TV  How intimacy coordinators cultivate consent Jessica’s definition of consent The power of pairing media literacy and sex education  With her own company, Jessica is providing a framework for how we can experience consent in a variety of workplaces and helping change the way an entire industry approaches consent.  * * * Thank you to our sponsors! Boll & Branch | Use promo code FortheLove and get 15% off your first set of sheets Me Course — Sex | Sign up for the presale price at 40% off at mecourse.org   Thought-Provoking Quotes "When actors have a sense of what's going to happen to their bodies, they know the arc of the scene. They have a time to think about how their character would want or move in those positions. They then layer on their acting onto this movement scaffold. And we create a better story. Because when actors are safe, they do their best work." - Jessica Steinrock "I love steamy scenes. I love spicy scenes. I am a romantic connoisseur in my media. I love it all. And I think what makes me love it though is knowing that these actors are safe while doing that, these actors are excited to tell those stories. That they weren't coerced into doing it because they think it's going to give them their break." - Jessica Steinrock “[intimacy coordination] is a relatively new field and a rare field where women are the majority. What we need to see is a more diverse pool of intimacy coordinators. So, that we have more of those voices impacting and supporting women of color, black trans women, actors who have historically marginalized characteristics.” - Jessica Steinrock   Jessica’s Links Jessica's Instagram - @intimacy_coordinator_ Jessica's TikTok - @intimacycoordinator   Books & Resources Mentioned in This Episode Intimacy Directors and Coordinators Website  SAG-ATRA Intimacy Coordinator Resources   Connect with Jen! Jen’s Website Jen’s Instagram Jen’s Twitter Jen’s Facebook Jen’s YouTube To learn more about listener data and our privacy practices visit: https://www.audacyinc.com/privacy-policy Learn more about your ad choices. Visit https://podcastchoices.com/adchoices

“Good girls”, “naughty girls”, women with too tight skirts or too high heels. Women’s sexuality is being scrutinized and judged by forces outside of ourselves no matter what form it takes. Our guest today is Gina Gutierrez who seeks to empower women to stop listening to these outside voices and start listening to our inner eros by tuning in and turning on with audio erotica. We could not be more…excited. TedX speaker with over 1M views, and member of the Forbes Under 30 2020 list, Gina Gutierrez is celebrated for her work focusing on using the imagination to ignite women’s sexuality. With her co-founder Faye Keegan she created the app Dipsea to help women define their desire in an empowered way through audio erotica stories.   In this episode Gina and Jen discuss: The link between sexual fulfillment and the imagination Celebrating selfishness in prioritizing sexual pleasure Uncovering and healing the shame of “feeling different”  How embracing the erotic gives us our power  With Dipsea, Gina is helping provide a framework for how we can safely explore our fantasies and prioritize our own pleasure resulting in us being better lovers, caregivers and friends.  * * * Thank you to our sponsors! Thistle Farms | Visit ThistleFarms.org and use promo code FortheLove to get 15% off your order Better Help | Visit BetterHelp.com/ForTheLove to get 10% off your first month Jen Hatmaker & Friends Cruise | Book your spot now at JenHatmaker.com/cruise   Thought-Provoking Quotes "Desire isn't a problem to be solved — it's a fire to be stoked." - Gina Gutierrez "The brain is the biggest sex organ and everyone can benefit from expanding their sexual imagination." - Gina Gutierrez “This idea of just giving up on what's possible to make you feel good and excited and make you want to turn towards your partner versus away from them or whatever it means to you, that felt like such a loss.” - Gina Gutierrez “Nobody ever suggested to us that it was important or valuable to find out what turns us on ever. That was nothing that was ever suggested to us. In fact, it was kind of the opposite. A lot of us came up feeling like this is not something good girls say, we do not have this conversation.”  - Gina Gutierrez “Maybe you don't have less of an interest in sex than you thought. Maybe you function differently than you thought. And maybe actually products, experiences, and stories that made you feel more comfortable and made your brakes less, 'I don't want that,' stop slamming your brakes so much could make you relax into pleasure." - Gina Gutierrez   Dipsea’s Links Dipsea Website - www.DipseaStories.com Dipsea Facebook - @DipseaStories Dipsea Twitter - @DipseaStories Dipsea Instagram - @DipseaStories Dipsea TikTok - @DipseaStories   Books & Resources Mentioned in This Episode Dipsea Website with Jen’s Link (dipseastories.com/jenhatmaker) Ted Talk by Gina Gutierrez A Billion Wicked Thoughts Dr. Emily Nagoski: Come As You Are Dr. Emily Nagoski - For the Love Podcast Episode Dr. Emily Nagoski: Podcast Audre Lorde reads Uses of the Erotic: The Erotic as Power on YouTube Audre Lorde’s “Uses of the Erotic: The Erotic as Power” Essay Text OMG Yes - The Science of Women's Pleasure Jen’s FTL Enneagram Series   Connect with Jen! Jen’s website Jen’s Instagram Jen’s Twitter Jen’s Facebook Jen’s YouTube   To learn more about listener data and our privacy practices visit: https://www.audacyinc.com/privacy-policy Learn more about your ad choices. Visit https://podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Welcome to our first episode in our For the Love of Sex series! We’re excited to break open this topic and find ways to cultivate what sexual health means for each of us and lay down toxic perspectives surrounding sex in our lives. Today we’re talking about sexual shame and how that can show inside and outside the bedroom. Matthias Roberts is a psychotherapist, author and podcaster. He wrote a book on sexual shame called “Beyond Shame: Creating a Healthy Sex Life on Your Own Terms” and is committed to helping people find freedom feeling shame around sex. Jen and Matthias discuss: A working definition of what sexual shame is How Matthias’s perspective on sex shifted after coming out in a Christian fundamentalist home Questions to ask ourselves to develop our own sexual ethic How sexual shame can affect every area of our life Ways to stay curious and let go of shame about sex Matthias’s queer theological perspective on sex The ways shame can seep into our lives is surprising. Join Jen and Matthias as they unpack, with a compassionate lens, how to stay curious and work toward kicking the shame-filled parts of our sex life to the curb. * * * Thank you to our sponsors! Chime | Sign up for your Chime Credit Builder Visa Credit Card today Chime.com/ForTheLove Thistle Farms | Visit ThistleFarms.org and use promo code FortheLove to get 15% off your order Jen Hatmaker & Friends Cruise | Book your spot now at JenHatmaker.com/cruise Thought-Provoking Quotes “Sexuality is also a really core part of who we are. How we experience or do not experience sexuality is identity construing, and it should be. It is part of who we are.” - Matthias Roberts “We have our shame, we have our sexuality, and then we have our divine, or our beliefs around the divine, and what the divine commands of us or doesn't command of us around our sexuality. And when those things play together, we can get a pretty nasty mix really quickly.” - Matthias Roberts “So many of us try to push shame aside. That's our default, "Push it aside. We're not going to pay attention to this. This hurts." Or we get shut down by it, but we never quite take the time, or a lot of people don't take the time to really listen and figure out what the shame is actually telling us. And I think that's a really, really important place to start, because if we don't know what we're working with, the particularities of the shame, then how do we actually work with it?” - Matthias Roberts “I think there's something around queerness and the ways that queer sexual ethic or queer ways of thinking around sexuality can actually free everyone up.” - Matthias Roberts “What would it mean for our bodies to be good as they are right now? Can we get curious about that? If we feel I have a bad body or that sense of inferiority, what does it mean that my body as it is, right now, in this moment, might actually be good and can bring me pleasure?” - Matthias Roberts “Shame disconnects us. It disconnects us from our bodies, from our communities, from our partners. Sex connects us. It is ultimately a connecting force. So we can actually use our sexuality as a way to reconnect to our bodies, reconnect to our partners.” - Matthias Roberts   Guest’s LinksMatthias Roberts Website Matthias’s Facebook Matthias’s Instagram Matthias’s Twitter   Resources Mentioned in This Episode Beyond Shame: Creating a Healthy Sex Life on Your Own Terms For The Love Podcast Episode with Jay Stringer on Purity Culture For The Love Podcast Episode with Brene Brown on Vulnerability Sex, God, & the Conservative Church Pure: Inside the Evangelical Movement That Shamed a Generation of Young Women and How I  Normal Gossip Podcast Holy Runaways: Rediscovering Faith After Being Burned by Religion Connect with Jen!Jen’s website Jen’s Instagram Jen’s Twitter Jen’s Facebook Jen’s YouTube   To learn more about listener data and our privacy practices visit: https://www.audacyinc.com/privacy-policy Learn more about your ad choices. Visit https://podcastchoices.com/adchoices

So much is happening in real time in our world, obviously. And as a weekly podcast we can’t always speak immediately into the events that happen around us that need a bigger conversation. So we decided to take the time to look at those happenings, find some people who could walk us through the big events that have happened in the last 4 or 5 months and pop in with some conversations outside of our regular series for our premium subscribers. We’re talking about events that have us rethinking our stand on different issues, legislation being passed or overturned, and justice issues–all in an effort to understand what's at the core of each one and figure out how to react. This week, we’re looking at issues around gun control. Wherever your entry point into this discussion is, it’s something that’s been top of mind for many of us. You may find this shocking, since the divides on this are reported with great zeal via the media, but according to Gallup, a great majority of us believe in the right to own guns. And a whopping 92% of us favor background checks on Every. Single. Gun. Purchase. So, what’s the big hubbub about gun control if we’re nearly all in agreement? Because right now background checks aren’t required for every single gun purchase. Millions of guns have found their ways into the hands of those who are using them for criminal purposes, via sellers who don’t do background checks. Consider that fact alongside the stat that firearm deaths are the highest among teens and young adults between 18-34. How can this be, and how can we change it? That’s what we’re stepping through in this episode with Diana Oestreich, a veteran combat medic who served in Iraq. Diana’s an activist who is a self-proclaimed “peace wager” and she’s returning to our show to walk us through what’s going on and what we can do to change the situation to make the world a safer place for our kids. And spoiler alert: it doesn’t require everyone to have to hand over their guns.    Thought-Provoking Quotes “Just this year, guns are the number one killer of kids in America. That demands action and I'm committed to it.” – Diana Oestreich  “I totally believe that it is A-okay to own a gun. I come from a family of hunters, I am the daughter, the mom, the sister of hunters. Is there a place in the American battery of rights to own an AR-15–a weapon of war? Do you need a weapon of war? No, you don't. Do you know that a grenade is a weapon of war? It is illegal. No American can own a grenade. And that’s a good thing.” - Diana Oestreich “The antidote to despair is action.” – Diana Oestreich   “The most powerful thing is that our kids know that they are part of doing good in the world. That's something that will make them resilient to violence.” – Diana Oestreich     Diana’s Links Website Instagram Twitter The Waging Peace Project   Connect with Jen !Jen’s website Jen’s Instagram Jen’s Twitter Jen’s Facebook Jen’s YouTube To learn more about listener data and our privacy practices visit: https://www.audacyinc.com/privacy-policy Learn more about your ad choices. Visit https://podcastchoices.com/adchoices

This episode of our What If Series asks; what if we looked inward to discover what makes us tick, who are the voices shaping us, and why are we choosing them? We also consider the question; who’s the most important person in your life? The answers most people give are what you’d expect, but our guest this week proposes that we dig deeper to find a different answer that will ultimately change how we approach life.  Our guest, Dr. Corey Yeager, is a psychotherapist for the Detroit Pistons, a life coach, and an author. He appeared in the documentary, The Me You Can’t See, by Oprah and Prince Harry, and recently released a book that poses 40 questions we should be asking ourselves as we create a roadmap to discover our purpose and explore who we want to become.   In this episode Dr. Corey and Jen discuss: Becoming a psychotherapist for NBA players How self talk affects our outlook Why asking intentional big questions can reframe our life How the timing is now for a love affair with yourself The most important conversation you can have is the one with yourself. Dr. Corey gives us the guidance and encouragement to do just that. Join Jen and Dr. Corey in an insightful discussion of self love, self talk, and staying curious.    * * * Thank you to our sponsors! Thought-Provoking Quotes “Most people have never thought about being a genius, ever. They would tell you, ‘I'm not a genius. I'm not a genius.’ But if someone says, ‘No. Be still. Think through this. Yes, you do have a genius. What is it?’ If you had to sit with that and play with that and grind with that, it would produce ... And actually not just the answer. The answer is not the key. The process towards the answer. The things that you play with, that you work through, that you cried through, that you laugh about. That is what we want more of." - Dr. Corey Yeager “I believe that at about nine, 10, 11, up into the 12, 13 year old range, we are handed a set of values. Our people around us, my grandparents, my mom, dad, my brother, they handed me a set of values. I didn't really get much say in it. They handed them to me and I agreed with it because I love my people. So then after I'm 12, 13, 14 years old, I move into the world holding those values, moving through the world with those values and never really re-engaging or checking in with myself to say, does that still work for me?.” - Dr. Corey Yeager “Discomfort should be an indicator that I'm growing into something that is quite important. So I think this indicator is something that will give us a signal.” - Dr. Corey Yeager “I submit that it is time for us to have a love affair with ourselves. I need to love me. And I'm glad my wife loves me and I'm glad my mama loves me and my kids love me. I'm glad, Jen, that they love me. But the most important love that I'm going to have is mine. If you don't know yourself, it's very hard to love yourself.” - Dr. Corey Yeager “So instead of using jealousy and just letting it sit, how about if we looked at those jealous moments, understood it as desire, and allowed that to become a GPS that told us where we wanted to head.” - Dr. Corey Yeager “We all hold the answers to everything we need. Everything that happens in my life today, I am fully equipped for. Anything that occurs, I'm fully equipped for, for this moment. And if we trust that, if we understand our lives as such, then we can move with confidence.” - Dr. Corey Yeager Guest’s LinksDr. Corey Yeager Website Dr. Corey's Facebook Dr. Corey's Twitter Dr. Corey’s Instagram   Resources Mentioned in This Episode How Am I Doing: 40 Conversations to Have with Yourself The Me You Can’t See   Connect with Jen!Jen’s website Jen’s Instagram Jen’s Twitter Jen’s Facebook Jen’s YouTube To learn more about listener data and our privacy practices visit: https://www.audacyinc.com/privacy-policy Learn more about your ad choices. Visit https://podcastchoices.com/adchoices

This episode of our What If Series asks what if you have big dreams and what if you didn’t let failure stop you from trying? Our guest is entrepreneur Kendra Scott, an intrepid businesswoman who built a billion dollar business while carrying her baby boy to sales meetings. She started with $500 and eventually created her dream, a 97% women run business that gives back to the community in meaningful ways. She breaks down the “why” and the “how” of building a jewelry empire and that asking for help from her people was key to her success.  In this episode Kendra and Jen discuss: Failing at her first business with a kid and no college degree Where her “Why” came from Intentionally building a woman and mom-centric business The importance of asking for help The What If’s of our past can bury us under, so we never dream of our next things. But some of our next steps can be found in the rubble of our failures. Join Jen and Kendra in an honest discussion of entrepreneurship, motherhood, and community.    * * * Thank you to our sponsors! Third Love | Visit ThirdLove.com/forthelove and get 20% off your first order Boll & Branch | Use promo code FortheLove and get 15% off your first set of sheets Jen Hatmaker & Friends Cruise | Book your spot now at JenHatmaker.com/cruise   Thought-Provoking Quotes “Because the ones that don't even try never know. And even if it doesn't work out, even if you fail. And I failed, I failed in my first business, that failure was the greatest education I ever got into business. It was my bridge to help me build the successful business I have today. And I wouldn't be sitting here talking to you, Jen if I didn't have that failed business. So I think for anyone out there scared, I always say, and I wrote this in Born to Shine, in my book, is put yourself in the worst case scenario, really think about it. And then you go, okay, you lived in that moment, and it wasn't so bad. Now I know what that's like. So now I'm going to just try to go for it." - Kendra Scott “Sometimes, we get ourselves buried in what ifs of our past and they hold us down from moving forward to our what ifs of the future, the dreaming what ifs.” - Kendra Scott “It is so hard in the moment to sometimes see the forest through the trees kind of thing, to see your way through. And it sometimes takes getting to that other place to then realize and you can see the path exactly back to where you began and why you had to go there.” - Kendra Scott “And I think if we can start taking those nos or the naysayers or the dream stealers and start to actually, when they say those things, get excited, make it more like, ‘Ooh, tell me I can't do it. Tell me, please.’ Ooh, I like it when someone tells me I can't do something because then I'm like, ‘Woo, let's go.’” - Kendra Scott “Stay open because we don't know what's going to come next.” - Kendra Scott I think for me, I'm still that dorky girl from Wisconsin. And I think sometimes I hope that the book too just knows that as these things happen, some people, it can affect them. And for me, I'm still me.” - Kendra Scott “Anything is possible. I promise you. I know in some moments it doesn't feel like they are, but if you can get your mind to know that you got this burning amazing light in your story, is what makes you great. So don't be ashamed to share who you really are.” - Kendra Scott Guest’s LinksKendra Scott Website Kendra Scott's Facebook Kendra Scott's business Instagram Kendra Scott’s personal Instagram   Resources Mentioned in This Episode Born to Shine: Do Good, Find Your Joy, and Build a Life You Love   Connect with Jen!Jen’s website Jen’s Instagram Jen’s Twitter Jen’s Facebook Jen’s YouTube To learn more about listener data and our privacy practices visit: https://www.audacyinc.com/privacy-policy Learn more about your ad choices. Visit https://podcastchoices.com/adchoices

In this episode of the What If Series, we are asking some big questions around using your experience and skills to start something completely new or get imaginative on how you can positively affect your community with what you already have. What do you bring to the table with the whole totality of your experience that could be a force of good for your community or for the people around you? Our guest is leader and teacher Emily Pillton-Lam, an inspiring thinker and author of several books and creator of the nonprofit – Girls Garage. She’s taught thousands of gender expansive youth how to use power tools and to dream of a world built more equitably and sustainably, and she’s dreamt about what it would look like if girls/women were empowered to facilitate the surroundings in our world differently–with an eye toward thinking more communally and factoring in the lived experience of the people around them.   In this episode Emily and Jen discuss: The shocking statistics around gender imbalance in Architecture, Engineering and Construction Worlds Why power tools can make you feel superhuman How it takes messy courage to change course and start something new Dreaming of a world built by women Emily gives us insight into the big “what if” question we might all ask ourselves: what if we could affect our world with the skills and experience we have right now?  * * * Thought-Provoking Quotes “I think what I discovered through the act of building was both the physical power of it, like I could build something that was tangible and I could point to it and say I built that and we built that as a group of people, working together. Also, this was one of the first times where I looked around and there were other teenagers who were diverse, who were from all over the country, who had all kinds of various family stories, school experiences and yet, we were all on this construction site, building this thing together and it just felt ... like a light went off. This is the thing that makes me feel powerful and purposeful and that I don't have to check who I am at the door, that I could be my full self. So that's the gift that I think construction gave to me at a young age, and it's a gift that I have committed my adult life to paying forward and paying back and giving back to other young people." - Emily Pilloton-Lam “For women, a lot of our lives are influenced by, or sometimes dictated by how we view our bodies in the world.” - Emily Pilloton-Lam “So this is how I think about power tools. Of course, they're fun, they're exciting to learn, but they're like a real metaphor for what women can do and what women can contribute in the world in a physical way.” - Emily Pilloton-Lam “One of the first things that you see when you walk [into Girls Garage], in our reception area, on the left-hand wall, there's a tiled wall, there's all these wood tiles and every tile has the name of a student who's been here and there's like a thousand of them. So you walk in and your name is literally on the wall, alongside hundreds of other girls, so you don't ever have to doubt that you belong here.” - Emily Pilloton-Lam Guest’s Links: Website: https://www.emilypilloton.com/  Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/WeAreGirlsGarage/  Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/_girlsgarage/  Connect with Jen! Jen’s website: http://jenhatmaker.com/  Jen’s Instagram: https://instagram.com/jenhatmaker Jen’s Twitter: https://twitter.com/jenHatmaker/  Jen’s Facebook: https://facebook.com/jenhatmaker Jen’s YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/user/JenHatmaker?sub_confirmation=1  To learn more about listener data and our privacy practices visit: https://www.audacyinc.com/privacy-policy Learn more about your ad choices. Visit https://podcastchoices.com/adchoices

We’re knee deep in our What If Series and we’re bringing a twist to the conversation. This powerful interview is a note-taking worthy one; a powerful conversation on one of the most misunderstood emotions we have as humans: regrets. How can we harness our regrets toward forward momentum instead of drowning in them? Our guest is writer and researcher Daniel H. Pink, a fascinating thinker and author of several books–five of them New York Times bestselling works. His latest book is The Power of Regret: How Looking Backward Moves Us Forward.   In this episode Daniel and Jen discuss: Basic neurology behind regret How age can affect regret The four main types of regret we all feel How to vaporize the negative effects of regret through practical to dos Daniel teaches us to confront our regrets, listen to our regrets, use them as data, as feedback, and draw lessons from them. He shows us the evidence from social psychology, that if we deal with our regrets properly, we can become better problem solvers, strategists and ultimately find more meaning in life.  * * * Thought-Provoking Quotes “One can listen to the stories of other people, and if they have a little bit of mileage on them as I do, they can stop and say, "What are the lessons anybody can learn from this?" - Daniel H. Pink “What do you do when nobody's watching? What do you do? Because it's who you are. And it took me a while, Jen. It took me a while to realize like, ‘Hey, wait a second. I think I'm a writer.’” - Daniel H. Pink “Everybody has regrets. So if you feel regret, it doesn't mean that you're flawed. It doesn't mean that you're doing it wrong. It means that you are a human being. In fact, what we know from a whole pile of research here, so there's 50 or 60 years of research in social psychology, in cognitive science, in neuroscience, in developmental psychology, what it tells us is that regret is one of the most common emotions that human beings have. It's arguably the most common negative emotion that human beings have. It is ubiquitous in the human experience. We have piles of evidence showing that regret is omnipresent in our lives. It is everywhere. In fact, it's so prevalent, Jen, that if you lack regrets, that's probably a sign of a problem.” - Daniel H. Pink “Regret is a very complicated, sophisticated kind of emotion. It involves traveling in time in your head, negating things that really happen, coming to the present. It's very difficult.” - Daniel H. Pink “We have a half century of evidence showing that if we process our regrets in a systematic, intelligent way, don't ignore them, don't get wigged out by them, but listen to them, they can make us better.” - Daniel H. Pink “I've made so many decisions in the last week, most of which I don't remember, but there were decisions and indecisions and actions that happened three decades ago that not only I remember, but that bother me. That's a very strong signal.” - Daniel H. Pink “Regret clarifies what I value and instructs me on how to do better.” - Daniel H. Pink “Foundation regrets, if only I'd done the work. Boldness regrets, if only I'd taken the chance. Moral regrets, if only I'd done the right thing. And connection regrets, if only I'd reached out. And around the world, those seem to be the foremost prevalent types of regret.” - Daniel H. Pink “We fear that when we are vulnerable, people will think less of us when in fact they think more of us.” - Daniel H. Pink Guest’s Links https://www.danpink.com/  https://www.facebook.com/danielhpink  https://twitter.com/danielpink To learn more about listener data and our privacy practices visit: https://www.audacyinc.com/privacy-policy Learn more about your ad choices. Visit https://podcastchoices.com/adchoices

As tons of us in the Jen Hatmaker Book Club can agree, a good book is a bit of a refuge at any time of the year, but especially in the swirl of the holidays. It's just stealing away minutes for our mind to not be thinking about planning and gifting and gatherings and shopping and cooking–not to mention expectations and the pressure to reinvent ourselves in the New Year. But getting to bury our nose in a book or even playing an audiobook has a way of transporting us to a different place entirely and giving us a break. This month we had the wonderful book Hamnet for that fleeting mental retreat we all need around this time of year. We’re getting to talk to Maggie O’Farrell, the amazing author of this atmospheric and emotional book. Maggie is an incredible novelist. She's the winner of the Women's Prize for Fiction in 2020 and her memoir, I Am, I Am which was a New York Times number one bestseller. Not only is she highly awarded with her adult fiction titles, she is also a beloved children's book writer. Even this interview was a bit of transport to another place as Maggie spoke to us in person from Edinburgh in Scotland. She and Jen discuss the book, their shared love of reading, started at an early age, and how amazing it is to find new stories to be told from the classic works of Shakespeare. If you’re not already a member of the book club, there’s so much more to discover in the conversations around amazing books we’re reading together. Jump on over to jenhatmakerbookclub.com after this episode to sign up!  * * * Thank you to our sponsors! Jen Hatmaker Book Club | Use code READ for $5 off your first month at www.jenhatmakerbookclub.com  Me Course - New Year | Head to mecourse.org to register and start your new year feeling inspired!       Thought-Provoking Quotes “For me the purpose was to put Hamnet center stage and to say to my readers, this boy was important. His life was short, it was hugely significant. And without this child we would not have Hamlet and we probably wouldn't have Twelfth Night.”  - Maggie O’ Farrell “The biggest drama of Shakespeare's real life happened off stage, and that's back in Stratford-upon-Avon–the death of his son. So I wanted to focus on that life rather than the one in London that we've seen many times and in many other novels, films and TV series.” - Maggie O’ Farrell “I think we all have our own version of Shakespeare in our heads, don't we? And they're all different, and I think that's fine.I think that's partly why he's of such enduring fascination because he's still open to so many new interpretations.” - Maggie O’ Farrell   Guest’s Links Maggie’s Website Maggie’s Facebook   Books & Resources Mentioned in This Episode Hamnet Book I Am, I Am Book The Boy Who Lost His Spark Children’s Book   Connect with Jen!Jen’s website Jen’s Instagram Jen’s Twitter Jen’s Facebook Jen’s YouTube To learn more about listener data and our privacy practices visit: https://www.audacyinc.com/privacy-policy Learn more about your ad choices. Visit https://podcastchoices.com/adchoices

It’s our first episode of the new year and we’re kicking it off with a brand new series as well. Jen’s always been fascinated by people who take risks, reinvent themselves, or chase a dream that might seem lofty or impossible. What’s the secret sauce to putting our dreams into action, and “what if” we actually get to that thing we always wanted to do in life?  To start our series off in a powerful way, we’ve got a guest who has lived out her “what If” moment in the face of fear, trepidation and potentially walking away from a more “sure” thing. Podcast, author, and digital marketer Jenna Kutcher excelled at her first corporate job, where after just a few years, she was looking at a big promotion and more money. Jenna couldn’t shake the feeling that this move for more money and responsibility would be a tough trade off for long hours and time away from the things and people she cared about. Jenna shares the surprising decision she made, what it cost her and how it planned out—while posing questions that maybe we’ve all considered at one time or another: What happens when money doesn’t necessarily bring you the quality of life you’re longing for? What happens when the dreams you have just won’t take a backseat to the practical plan you had for your life? Jen and Jenna give their takes on what it’s like to realize the career or life situation you’ve chosen (or maybe that chose you) isn’t quite the fit you you thought it would be, and they give us permission to chase the thing that brings out the best of who we really are.  * * * Thank you to our sponsors! Third Love | Visit ThirdLove.com/forthelove and get 20% off your first order Me Course - New Year | Head to mecourse.org to register and start your new year feeling inspired!     Jen Hatmaker Book Club | Join the Jen Hatmaker Book Club before January 5th and get a Me Course for free! Visit jenhatmakerbookclub.com.    Thought-Provoking Quotes “We are so quick to abandon what got us somewhere. Instead, we could leverage that thing to get us to the next place.” - Jenna Kutcher “If you do not have safety and security, creativity is really hard to muster up. Because a lot of people just abandon things and then they're like, "Oh my gosh, I have to take any money that will come in," and they find themselves doing things they don't love.” - Jenna Kutcher “I think that with hustle culture, it's beautiful because, yeah, you got to hustle to get things off the ground, but where is your enough point? Where do you start to say, ‘And now I can rest, or, well done, or now I protect my time?’”- Jenna Kutcher “I realized this trend in my life where when I finally give myself bandwidth and time and space to breathe and think, that is when the best things happen.” - Jenna Kutcher “I think for so many of us, it's like the dial on the stereo is up on the world's noise and your mother-in-law's opinion and your neighbor's car and all these things. It's like we've got to turn our intuition back up and we've got to trust that voice again.” - Jenna Kutcher “Trust the unfolding of your life and trust yourself through the process of the unfolding. Because I think that a lot of times when we're in those seasons, you feel like it's never going to end.” - Jenna Kutcher "Time is our currency. When we treat it that way and when we recognize that this is the one thing we can't go out and earn more of, we can't get back. The way that we spend our days is how we spend our life. Make sure that your day is reflecting where you want your life to go." - Jenna Kutcher   Guest’s LinksJenna Kutcher Website Jenna Kutcher Instagram Jenna Kutcher Facebook Jenna Kutcher Twitter   Resources Mentioned in This Episode Me Course   Connect with Jen!Jen’s website Jen’s Instagram Jen’s Twitter Jen’s Facebook Jen’s YouTube   To learn more about listener data and our privacy practices visit: https://www.audacyinc.com/privacy-policy Learn more about your ad choices. Visit https://podcastchoices.com/adchoices

It’s our anticipated annual solo episode where we get to spend time with Jen reflecting on the year and the changes that have occurred in her life and our collective lives. And whew, have Things™ happened! We are still in the cyclone of massive change that launched out of 2020. Jen recently entered an empty nest phase this year and began a new relationship (an LDR relationship to boot) for the first time in years. She opens up about her relationship with Tyler in a completely new way and offers some hope for those navigating the waters of being single or testing out tough relationships. Whatever comes in the new year, Jen is committed to trying new things and believing that things do get better. It might be messy and wildly nonlinear but there is hope and there is progress and there is a future worth fighting for. I mean, Jen is still shocked she wrote a bestselling cookbook at age 47. If you had asked her in her twenties if that was her future, she would have laughed in your face. Whether you want to overhaul your own life or dip your toe into a new venture, Jen’s with you and cheering you on. We end this episode with Jen sharing what’s on her mind for the new year and what’s to come on the podcast and beyond. We hope you go into your new year feeling like you have a community that gets you, supports you, and that you have permission to try new things. Happy new year, pod community! * * * Thank you to our sponsors! Thought-Provoking Quotes: "That's the nice thing about [starting a relationship] when you're older--you're mature, you've lived a lot of life and you're hopefully more generous, more wise and more grounded." - Jen Hatmaker “I've grown a lot, a lot, a lot through understanding things through Tyler's lens, and staying curious toward him, and fighting all my instincts, which are trauma related, to be scared, and reactive, and triggered.” - Jen Hatmaker “It is 100% okay, more than okay, to choose not to get married or even to partner up. That choice is viable. That is a real choice. It has merit for a trillion reasons.” - Jen Hatmaker “The faith of my childhood did not teach me that God had any interest in our pleasure…in fact the opposite was more true. The harder something was probably the godlier it was. Or the more I denied myself something that felt beautiful or wonderful, that probably meant I was being obedient…God made this world to just be so enjoyed and to heal us and to nurture us. And that feels so crystal clear, true to me now that I'm shocked that it wasn't always.” - Jen Hatmaker “Having a chance to be alone, whether you chose it or didn't, it doesn't matter, is a chance to look really deeply inside. Who am I? What do I want? What makes me happy? What makes me tick? Where are my own personal pain points? Let's not imagine we got this far in our life perfectly and everybody around us was just problematic.” - Jen Hatmaker "If you find yourself solo right now, take this time. Go deeply inside. Know who you are, be your own best friend, emerge as your best self--whether or not that best self ever partners up or marries, it doesn't matter because that's how you want to be in the world.” - Jen Hatmaker "I've been parenting since I was 23. I've done all that heavy lifting and I loved it. I wouldn't change one day of it--but it also feels great to be mostly done. Look at my young adult kids--I think they're fantastic. I'm getting to watch them start to fly." - Jen Hatmaker Resources Mentioned in This Episode: Me Course Connect with Jen!Jen’s website Jen’s Instagram Jen’s Twitter Jen’s Facebook Jen’s YouTube   To learn more about listener data and our privacy practices visit: https://www.audacyinc.com/privacy-policy Learn more about your ad choices. Visit https://podcastchoices.com/adchoices

It’s the benediction episode in our “Ending the Year with a Bang” series and what a well of wisdom we have for you. The Dalia Lama of the Christian faith who resides in and walks the trails of beautiful rural Georgia–a For the Love favorite—Barbara Brown Taylor, shares her priceless insights with us. She and Jen talk blueberry pies, retired racehorses who get a second chance at life in her backyard, and making room for friendships when the world wants us, above all else, to be productive. She shares a “Farewell to 2022” prayer that she composed specifically for this podcast community (which might have elicited a tear or two) and how considering new rhythms in our day to day might bring us new life in 2023. Barbara wants to remind us that God created this world to be enjoyed and to heal and nurture us. As we contemplate how we are looking to live in this coming year, BBT has this to say to us all: “be patient with the changing seasons and not insisting that spring be like fall or that winter be like summer; trust the change in them. There's a rhythm that is settling into a pattern and then there's a point at which the rhythm means breaking the pattern to insert a slower rhythm, a more attentive rhythm. It is a great walk of trust.”  * * * Thought-Provoking Quotes: “It's been an odd liminal transition space between two heavy pandemic years and then seeing what comes next with really no assurance about what comes next. Which I think for people of faith, it is a great walk, a great kind of trust walk. So my 2022 has been a lot about deciding how much normal I want to go back to and what kind of a tempo I want to live because at this point everything's picking up again and I have found myself rushing and busy and distracted and I remember that too well and there are not enough years left to live like that. So 2022 has been for me a hinge year. It's been a year for coming to terms with age, both the fear of what that means and the invitation that it brings perhaps especially for a woman, I'm not sure about that. But the fear is about the stereotypes.” - Barbara Brown Taylor “I prayed much differently in my twenties than I did in my thirties or forties or now. So to be patient with the changing seasons and not insisting that spring be like fall or that winter, be like summer, but to be patient with the rhythms and to trust. To trust the change in them.” - Barbara Brown Taylor “Part of realizing God is with us is giving up illusions. That means that God is very chatty and always available. I mean I'm an introvert so I recognize one when I see one. And sometimes God with us means God's silent and withdrawn and that does not mean God's gone.” - Barbara Brown Taylor “My understanding of my Christian faith is it's the religion of the neighbor and it's the religion whose prime teacher said, "If you've got to choose between your religion and your neighbor, choose your neighbor…Because I never told you to love your religion.” - Barbara Brown Taylor Guest’s Links: Barbara Brown Taylor Website Barbara Brown Taylor Facebook   Resources Mentioned in This Episode: Rhythm of Prayer Book   Connect with Jen! Jen’s website Jen’s Instagram Jen’s Twitter Jen’s Facebook Jen’s YouTube To learn more about listener data and our privacy practices visit: https://www.audacyinc.com/privacy-policy Learn more about your ad choices. Visit https://podcastchoices.com/adchoices

***Content Warning: This episode mentions suicide***Description It’s the second episode in our “Ending the Year with a Bang” series and we are leaning in hard as to how to stop spinning out and find a way forward or sideways or any direction really–we just don’t want to be stuck. We are getting into the nooks and crannies of how our brains work and how “micro-yeses” are powerful medicine for our psyches. If you are or ever have been in a place of feeling stuck or maybe even plastered to the floor from feeling overwhelmed, then step right in. Our guest, Britt Frank, is a trauma specialist with her own incredible story of restoration from several addictions and she has fantastic insight for navigating feeling stuck in unhealthy cycles. We can all find hope in the understanding that despite how it might appear sometimes, we are not crazy and our behaviors have reasons that are mapped all over our brains. The good news is we can shift our behaviors in some really simple and attainable ways that Britt shares with us in her no-holds barred style. In the spirit of finishing this year well, let’s all make a pact to stop labeling ourselves as crazy and start believing that our “stuff” makes sense and doesn’t have to hold us hostage. * * * Thank you to our sponsors! Storyworth | Head to StoryWorth.Com/forthelove and save $10 on your first purchase  BetterHelp | Visit BetterHelp.com/forthelove and get 10% off your first month Jen's Favorite Things Gift Guide | Listen to this special podcast episode for exclusive discounts on gifts that give back this holiday season!   Thought-Provoking Quotes “My behaviors weren't good, but there's no such thing as a crazy person. If you look at everyone up close, everything always makes sense in context. Even if you don't know what that means, even if you don't know what that is, and when you stop shaming yourself and you start committing to, hey, I'm not subscribing to my behaviors, I'm not saying these should stay, but I'm not going to shame myself. I'm going to go, wow, this is an interesting adaptation to an injury. And, okay, I'm not crazy. I make sense. My stuff makes sense. My burnout makes sense. My depression makes sense for me. My meth addiction made sense. And what a beautiful message to know that we're not crazy, no one is.” - Britt Frank “If you're still breathing, there's another step to be taken, so take it. I don't know where I'm going, I don't know what I'm doing, just go. Because the second you move in any direction, even if it's the wrong direction, you're no longer inert, you're no longer stuck.” - Britt Frank “I didn't have a pivotal moment. It was a long series of unfortunate events with some moments that kept me inspired to not die. And I kept going.” - Britt Frank “In order to be a happy person, you need to be a whole person. But in order to be whole, we have to deal with the less than shiny things about ourselves.” - Britt Frank “That's a mile 26 problem, trying to love and forgive yourself. But we try to do it at mile one and then go, ‘what's wrong with me that I can't forgive myself?’ That's not the stage of the process we're at. Let's start by getting rid of the lie stories and that'll make it a lot easier to get to self-love and compassion and forgiveness later.” - Britt Frank   Guest’s LinksBritt Frank Website Britt Frank Instagram   Resources Mentioned in This Episode The Science of Stuck Book   Connect with Jen!Jen’s website Jen’s Instagram Jen’s Twitter Jen’s Facebook Jen’s YouTube To learn more about listener data and our privacy practices visit: https://www.audacyinc.com/privacy-policy Learn more about your ad choices. Visit https://podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Ask and you shall receive, folks. For years, Jen’s followers have begged for a cookbook and quite literally willed it into existence, and now it’s here in all its glory! For our November book club episode, Jen is joined by OG book club member Denise Gruzensky, who’s been cooking her way through Feed These People and is ready to grill Jen (no pun intended) on her early influences, including; cooking with kids interrupting you every two seconds, what to do when your loved ones can’t eat meat, and how to make your food work for you and your people. Happy Holidays and happy cooking! If you’re not already a member of the book club, there’s so much more to discover in the conversations around amazing books we’re reading together. Head to jenhatmakerbookclub.com after this episode to sign up!  * * * Thank you to our sponsors! Jen's Favorite Things Gift Guide | Listen to this special podcast episode for exclusive discounts on gifts that give back this holiday season! Thistle Farms | Use code ForTheLove to save 15% off the entire website excluding sale items   Join the Jen Hatmaker Book Club today! jenhatmakerbookclub.com    Thought-Provoking Quotes “I knew that I loved making delicious food and creating something great in the kitchen, but I noticed I really liked writing about it and to layer over two things that I loved. Because really I'm a writer first.” - Jen Hatmaker “I used all these years of just writing helter skelter on social media as a template. It isn't one by the way, that is not industry standard. But that's the way that I had figured out food writing, which was just outside of the typical structure.” - Jen Hatmaker “We're all laughing as we're cooking because intermittently there's comedy even in the recipe itself.” - Denise Gruzensky “I think when it comes to cooking, the sum is greater than its parts. Yes, it's just an onion and it's garlic and it's a sub sandwich, but something about it, like the process of it, the possibility of it, the nourishment of it and then the appreciation of it, it's like, Well, maybe I'll learn to paint, maybe I'll write a book. So, I hope that it inspires a little bit of creativity in everybody.” - Jen Hatmaker “I just had so much to learn and I was willing to learn anything and try anything. I feel like the Food Network, I joke about that all the time, that's really where I learned how to cook. I just watched those shows and I watched how they chopped things and I learned technique and I figured out they would teach me about flavors that went together and how to fix something that tasted flat. Just all these things that cooks know, but I did not.” - Jen Hatmaker “I'm on the other side of this just complete seed change in my life. I've learned a lot. I have something new to say. I have something new that I've experienced and learned and I'm not quite ready to write it, but I can see its edges starting to take a little shape.” - Jen Hatmaker   Guest’s LinksDenise’s website Denise’s Instagram Denise’s Facebook Denise’s Twitter   Books & Resources Mentioned in This EpisodeMike Burbiglia Of Mess & Moxie Food Network H-E-B Southern Living  Real Simple  Food and Wine Magazine  Feed These People    Connect with Jen!Jen’s website Jen’s Instagram Jen’s Twitter Jen’s Facebook Jen’s YouTube   To learn more about listener data and our privacy practices visit: https://www.audacyinc.com/privacy-policy Learn more about your ad choices. Visit https://podcastchoices.com/adchoices

It’s the first episode in our “Ending the Year with a Bang” series, and we’re bolting headlong into everyone’s favorite topic (especially after week upon week of holiday spending)--finances! Maybe your finances don’t have you ending 2022 with a bang—it has been challenging and hard on the financial front for a lot of us–everything from post pandemic shifts to rising inflation to rising interest rates; things might seem a little gloomy on the financial horizon. But as Jen herself has learned over the last couple of years, you can turn the tide and start calling the shots on your finances, instead of staying in the dark and wondering where you stand. This applies to everyone no matter what money madness plagues you—even if you’re having to start over, or you don’t have much to work with, or you’re wildly uninformed about how to wrangle numbers. Just like a new year, we can all start at the very beginning. This week’s guest brings the realistic–and hopeful—truth about how to turn our finances around, or even just how we can manage things a little differently for maximum benefit. Chelsea Fagan is the co-founder and CEO of The Financial Diet. Having descended into her own financial pit during her first years living in New York, Chelsea decided to make a change and as she began to see some of the simple things she instigated move her toward a healthier financial picture, she wanted to empower others with the reality that basic changes in how we look at money can create great impact toward our financial futures. Chelsea helps people daily with budgeting, credit scores, investing, and does it all with a hopeful outlook that will bring even the least financially minded of us a sigh of relief. Get ready as Chelsea doles out some hard truths, some practical advice and even turns our weekly “what’s saving your life” question back on Jen—this is a conversation that ends up being, well, on the money! * * * Thank you to our sponsors! Thought-Provoking Quotes “Being good with money has basically nothing to do with your income level or your lifestyle. The ethos of being good with money very, very simply boils down to both living with and being content with living under your means, and then framing your financial decision making in terms of your long-term priorities and values as opposed to short-term gratification.” - Chelsea Fagan “I'm thinking about a variety of ways people gather around this time of year, be it actual Christmas or a gift giving moment, family or friends–work even–and those spaces are not paying close attention to making gatherings financially inclusive. If anyone coming to your event feels uncomfortable financially, you have failed as a host.” - Chelsea Fagan “In keeping a positive mindset [with money issues], something my husband says that I really love is, "Worrying is praying for something bad to happen." You either do something about it to be proactive and prevent negative outcomes or increase the chances of positive outcomes. Or, if you've done everything you need to do and it's out of your control now, then focus on other things.” - Chelsea Fagan Guest’s Links The Financial Diet Website The Financial Diet Instagram The Financial Diet Facebook The Financial Diet Twitter   Resources Mentioned in This Episode Nerd Wallet Glassdoor Broke Millennial Can’t afford a CPA? See if you qualify for help with your taxes via a free service from  United Way Connect with Jen!Jen’s website Jen’s Instagram Jen’s Twitter Jen’s Facebook Jen’s YouTube To learn more about listener data and our privacy practices visit: https://www.audacyinc.com/privacy-policy Learn more about your ad choices. Visit https://podcastchoices.com/adchoices

For the final episode of our Untraditional Traditions series, Jen’s good friend, American Idol alumni Melinda Doolittle, is with us to have an enlightening chat with Jen, which, as Jen readily admits, is 90% not about Christmas at all—and since we’re being untraditional this year, we’re here for it! Jen gets Melinda to spill all the behind the scenes scoop on what it was like to come through the American Idol machine, including how it felt to be the oldest contestant for her season (at the ripe old age of 28, mind you). They also set the record straight about what happened when Melinda “ignored” Tyler Merritt for a year (let’s just say it involved not knowing how social media works). Finally, since it is our holiday series, Melinda tells us about her favorite Christmas ever, which involves her yearly Christmas show in Nashville, TN, and the very special guest that happened to be in the audience that night. * * * Thank you to our sponsors! Kiwico | Get your first month FREE on ANY crate line at kiwico.com/forthelove.  Jen's Favorite Things Gift Guide | Listen to this special podcast episode for exclusive discounts on gifts that give back this holiday season! Thistle Farms | Use code ForTheLove to save 15% off the entire website excluding sale items     Thought-Provoking Quotes “I was on the same season [of American Idol] as Jordan Sparks and she was the youngest in my season, I was the oldest. We were roommates, so we were extremely close. And she knew who she was. She knew what kind of artist she wanted to be. She had auditioned for lots of competitions. She just knew who she was. And I was like, ‘Can you teach me, 16 year old? Because I don't know.’” - Melinda Doolittle  “I don't think anyone's prepped to ascend that quickly or to have that level of critique. Literally the whole country was saying what they thought of you.” - Melinda Doolittle on life during American Idol “I truly feel like dreams came true that I didn't actually know I had. I think I hadn't allowed myself to dream about what it would look like for me to be an artist and to step on stages and have my own story to tell.” - Melinda Doolittle “All I wanted out of life was to be the Black Barbara Streisand. I discovered that I could write some songs. I was okay with that, but I wanted to sing those classic songs that made everybody move, made people cry, made people feel something.” - Melinda Doolittle “[At my Christmas show] we do a version of 'All I Want for Christmas,' that is my happiest place. And I swore I would never do that song because that song is the gold standard for me. It is Mariah Carey and I will never be her. So to make that song fit me, but to still be true to it, that was one of the most exciting arrangements I've ever come up with. Ever.” - Melinda Doolittle   Guest’s Links Melinda’s website Melinda’s Instagram Melinda’s Facebook   Resources Mentioned in This Episode People Loving NashvilleMelinda’s Christmas Show in Franklin, Tennessee Connect with Jen!Jen’s website Jen’s Instagram Jen’s Twitter Jen’s Facebook Jen’s YouTube   To learn more about listener data and our privacy practices visit: https://www.audacyinc.com/privacy-policy Learn more about your ad choices. Visit https://podcastchoices.com/adchoices

We’re back with another installment of our Untraditional Traditions series and continuing to celebrate the best of the season with different perspectives on how to change things up toward augmenting old traditions, creating new ones, or letting go of those that no longer serve us. Perhaps you’re thinking–how do I even begin to shift long held traditions—especially around holiday gatherings? Or maybe you’ve never been the “gather-er,” but you want to step your toe into those waters? We’ve got some fantastic practical guidance based on real life experience from our guest this week, on how we can get more from how we gather, and how to facilitate gatherings that bring life instead of stress. Priya Parker is a facilitator, a strategic advisor, an author and a life-long curious student. Priya believes everyone has the ability to gather well and gives us tangible tools to help us reimagine how we spend our time together and infuse it with creativity and meaning. Her best-selling book The Art of Gathering Well, is such a vital work when it comes to rethinking how we plan all our get togethers. Priya got her start in this field at a really young age as a kid when she straddled the two very different worlds of her parents, where she’d leave her mother and stepfather's Indian, liberal, vegetarian, Buddhist, household and travel to her father and stepmothers’, white American, evangelical Christian, conservative, meat eating household. Priya believes that a gathering starts when you pause first to ask “why do I want to do this, what are the needs and who should be there?” She and Jen talk through some of the possible answers to these questions and how they help us make important shifts in approaching our holiday gatherings. Recognizing that rituals are powerful, they also look at when they are needed–and when they’ve outlived their usefulness or specialness, or even when the observation of them brings sadness or pain. As we all search for belonging and true connection in our holiday gatherings, Priya and Jen walk us through how we can lay the foundation for our own blended and newly-created traditions.  * * * Thank you to our sponsors! Thought-Provoking Quotes “I think that the cultivation of meaningful dialogue, of meaningful conversation is a cultural practice, and I think that there are elements that help build that muscle, and that there's elements that block the going to that cultural gym.” - Priya Parker “We're doing a lot of missing of each other. We're missing each other spatially because of the pandemic. We're missing each other politically. We're missing each other during racial reckonings. And I think the art and craft of beginning to find each other again is to think about when and how do we actually meet, and how do we set it up in a way that people feel safe enough to engage.” - a letter received from a reader of Priya Parker’s book “The Art of Gathering.”  “What is a need in my life, or what is a need in this community that by bringing together a specific group of people we might be able to address?” - Priya Parker “Our rituals are like the observable symbols of our forms, and when the forms are shifting, the rituals also need to shift for them to be relevant and meaningful to the people who choose to be in those systems.” - Priya Parker Guest’s Links Priya’s website Priya’s Instagram Priya’s Facebook Priya’s Twitter   Resources Mentioned in This Episode The Art of Gathering - book by Priya Parker The Way We Never Were - book by Stephanie Coontz  Americanah - book Chimamanda Ngozi Adichie   Connect with Jen! Jen’s website Jen’s Instagram Jen’s Twitter Jen’s Facebook Jen’s YouTube To learn more about listener data and our privacy practices visit: https://www.audacyinc.com/privacy-policy Learn more about your ad choices. Visit https://podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Another year, another holiday, and another special bonus episode of our podcast featuring our 6th Annual Jen's Favorite Things Gift Guide. If you're just now realizing that we've got about a month before Christmas, Jen and team are here to help! In this episode, Jen will guide us to some of the most practical, fun and beautiful gifts this year—along with all kinds of deals, just for you, our faithful listeners. And as we've done in past years, Jen has selected products she loves from businesses who are doing good in the world—whether that's through dollars back to worthy causes, employing and empowering marginalized communities, or creating sustainable solutions that are both good for us and our planet. And here's a fun bonus (on top of a bonus episode!). We love a good story here on our show, so to celebrate 6 years of this guide, we've invited some of the folks who've benefited from the "giving back" component of our gift companies this year to share how their lives were impacted by the help and support they've received through the conscientious work of these companies AND because generous buyers like you decided they wanted to spend their holiday dollars meaningfully.    Thought-Provoking Quotes “I was at the end of the road. I was completely desperate. I was sitting in prison and a lady from Thistle Farms, one of the original graduates, came in and spoke to a group of women in the prison. And so I got out, I went straight to Thistle Farms. I felt the love and the support. They bought me hygiene. They bought me clothes right when I came in. They basically just put their arms around me and let me just rest and breathe.” - Rachel, 2017 graduate of the Thistle Farms Residential Community  “One of the things that we really found is that good food, good drink, and sitting around the table is actually the largest place to find healing. Because we started hearing the stories and sharing our experiences and we would linger around a table for hours and hours, starting from breakfast all the way through dinner. That was where everything happened.” - Paulette Wooten, co-founder of The Treehouse + Co.  “I love being here. I love being part of something that is bigger than me and doing more for the greater good, and sharing my story and being around the women that have been through similar situations and gone through struggle.” - Katie, ABLE jeweler  “Because of your direct support and buying our gift products and sending them to your girlfriends, and your moms, and your teacher or friends, we have been able to grow. We have been able to give back to our women. We have been able to keep our team employed through a really challenging few years in the retail and shopping space.” - Micah Shreeve, founder of Aspen Lane   Gift Guide Holiday Deals  Thistle Farms | Use code ForTheLove to save 15% off the entire website excluding sale items  Wagon Coffee | Use code ForTheLove to save 10% off the entire online shop, including the Caffeinate These People coffee pack and For the Love coffee blend The Treehouse & Co | Use code ForTheLove to save 15% off the entire website, including the Jen Hatmaker holiday spice box ABLE | Use code ForTheLove to save 40% on purchases made in November, and 25% on purchases made in December  Aspen Lane | Shop Jen’s favorites and get 25% off using code ForTheLove Hon’s Honey | Save 15% on the entire online store with code ForTheLove   Connect with Jen! Jen’s website Jen’s Instagram Jen’s Twitter Jen’s Facebook Jen’s YouTube To learn more about listener data and our privacy practices visit: https://www.audacyinc.com/privacy-policy Learn more about your ad choices. Visit https://podcastchoices.com/adchoices

We’re in the midpoint of our Untraditional Traditions series, and we want to ask all of you listeners to consider something; what kind of Christmas do you want or need this year? Maybe it’s a riotous, celebratory Christmas with tons of gatherings and activities, a frenzy of lights and shopping and cooking and more. But perhaps some of us might be feeling a bit tethered to the way we’ve always done it—and the notion of a calm Christmas sounds nothing short of divine (and kudos to you all who have found the joy of this already). Perhaps you feel like you don’t really have a choice as to what kind of Christmas you have, as you’ve been the “keeper of Christmas” for your family and friends for so long, but our guest this week is here to tell us otherwise. Beth Kempton is a writer, a mother and has been obsessed with Christmas since she was a little girl. After one particularly stressful Christmas when her children were small (and she and her husband decided that neither of them really liked turkey) Beth began to realize that Christmas could be what she wanted it to be (sans turkey, for one!), and she started spreading that message—namely through her book “Calm Christmas and a Happy New Year.” She and Jen talk through the 5 “stories” of Christmas and which one they identify with most, they discuss when Christmas is hard and how to help yourself and others when that’s the case, and the comfort and joy of letting yourself be free of anyone else’s Christmas expectations and choosing the kind of season that is nurturing instead of draining. * * * Thank you to our sponsors! StoryWorth | Give the gift of preserved memories at storyworth.com/forthelove to save $10 on your first purchase!  For the Love’s 2022 Gift Guide | Save on gifts that give back this holiday season!    Thought-Provoking Quotes “I think the reason it's so important to think carefully about Christmas is because it's not just Christmas Day, it's the whole of winter. It's the season that sets us up for the year that follows. The impact on our mental health can be enormous.” - Beth Kempton “Isn't it interesting that you turn to the symbols of Christmas–the tree, the lights, whatever–as comfort in a really difficult time? And I know it's up to everyone when they put the tree up, but I'm totally the same. If that brings you joy, why not extend it as much as you can?” - Beth Kempton “When we find the quiet, it's so much easier to connect with the wisdom that we already hold and often don't even realize. I think somehow our heart is way ahead of our mind in terms of what we know, what we need to know.” - Beth Kempton “One of the things that I was really shocked by was how many people that I spoke to–I would say more than 80%--had a very sad story connected with Christmas in some way.” - Beth Kempton   Guest’s Links Beth’s Website Beth’s Instagram Beth’s Facebook Beth Kempton’s podcast The Way of the Fearless Writer: Ancient Eastern wisdom for a flourishing writing life    Resources Mentioned in This Episode Book: Calm Christmas and a Happy New Year by Beth Kempton Book: The Way of the Fearless Writer by Beth Kempton   Connect with Jen!Jen’s website Jen’s Instagram Jen’s Twitter Jen’s Facebook Jen’s YouTube   To learn more about listener data and our privacy practices visit: https://www.audacyinc.com/privacy-policy Learn more about your ad choices. Visit https://podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Let’s get into the nitty gritty of our holiday traditions—real tree or a fake tree? Love egg nog or hate it? Decorating to the hilt or like to keep it minimalist? In this kickoff episode of our Untraditional Traditions series, we’re doing a deep dive into some of the traditions many of us may observe at the holidays, and a few we might want to try! Like, how many of you put up your Christmas tree at Halloween and take it down on Valentine’s Day? Well, our guest this week does and he just gave us all permission to do that same (you’re welcome). Because that’s the fun thing about traditions—we can take the ones that mean the most to us and build off them to create something that really reflects who we are. And if our old traditions leave us feeling flat, there are always new things to explore. Brian Earl, the host of the “Christmas Past” podcast is the perfect guide as we begin this series. Brian dedicates hours of research to uncovering the roots behind many of our beloved (and maybe to some, annoying) holiday traditions. Ever wonder why we put up a Christmas tree in the first place? He lays it out for us, along with many other interesting facts around traditions. Also, he and Jen reminisce about being kids in the 70’s, 80’s and 90’s and the nostalgia around gifts we received and the Christmas commercials that used to barrage us on TV. (Rubik’s Cube, anyone? How about Teddy Ruxpin)? As they wind through the nostalgia of traditions past, Jen and Brian also talk about creating new traditions, and how valuable those are and will become to us and our people. Brian’s years of research have resulted in a book about all the fascinating, sometimes really surprising stories behind our holiday traditions, why we should care about them, and what they mean. Get into the spirit of the holidays as we wax nostalgic and dream of new ways to celebrate the season. * * * Thank you to our sponsors! BetterHelp | Visit BetterHelp.com/forthelove and get 10% off your first month Chime | Sign up for your Chime Credit Builder Visa Credit Card today Chime.com/ForTheLove Feed These People | Order Jen’s new cookbook and get free extra recipes, cooking videos, and more at jenhatmaker.com/feedthesepeople. Available now!   Thought-Provoking Quotes “I grew up in the '70s and '80s. Those are two decades that I feel like produced maybe twice their fair share of popular culture. And all of that worked its way into Christmas.” - Brian Earl “Christmas for your great-great-grandparents was very different from what we celebrate. They would take a look at our celebration and sort of recognize it as Christmas, but not really.” - Brian Earl “During the Christmas season, anything in my community that's going on, any Christmas thing, we're always running around to it, and [my wife] gets a little tired, because she loves Christmas too, but very few people love it as much as I do.” - Brian Earl “Every year we write the next chapter in the story of Christmas. And I mean that on a small scale–you write the next chapter in your family's Christmas. But then collectively, with changing our behaviors, and just what kinds of things we want as a culture for Christmas, we write the next chapter collectively as the larger Christmas-celebrating community.” - Brian Earl   Guest’s Links Brian’s Website Brian’s Instagram Brian’s Facebook The Christmas Past Podcast   Resources Mentioned in This Episode For the Love Podcast episode with “Deck the Hallmark” Christmas Past: The Fascinating Stories Behind Our Favorite Holiday's Traditions by Brian Earl   Connect with Jen!Jen’s website Jen’s Instagram Jen’s Twitter Jen’s Facebook Jen’s YouTube To learn more about listener data and our privacy practices visit: https://www.audacyinc.com/privacy-policy Learn more about your ad choices. Visit https://podcastchoices.com/adchoices

We’re celebrating fall in the Jen Hatmaker Book Club (and for those of you who live in the deep south like Jen, our sympathies for the fall leaves you won’t see). Whether it’s actual fall or the idea of fall that gives you that cozy-up-with-a-blanket-in-your-favorite-chair-with-a-good-book feeling, we’re here for it. And we’ve got just the book for your fall reading–our book of the month is none other than Who Is Maud Dixon? by Alexandra Andrews. Alexandra is a journalist, an editor, and copywriter who works from New York and Paris, and this is her very first book! We think she hit it out of the park–and a lot of people feel the same. Who Is Maud Dixon? was named best mystery novel of the year by the New York Times, best book of the year by Time Magazine and has gotten kudos from NPR, Publishers Weekly–and host of other publications.. Can we take a minute to imagine your very first book being met with that level of success? It's so exciting what she's accomplished, and you’ll love hearing how she crafted such a page turner–it will surprise you and there's more than one twist, which is the best kind of thriller. If you’re not already a member of the book club, there’s so much more to discover in the conversations around amazing books we’re reading together. Jump on over to jenhatmakerbookclub.com after this episode to sign up!    Thought-Provoking Quotes:“I'm always inspired the same way, which is reading another book and thinking, oh, I wish I could do that. And for a long time it was mostly nonfiction books and I really wanted to be Joan Didion.” - Alexandra Andrews “There are a lot of women, or people in general, not just women, who’ve had a tough upbringing, they've been up against a lot of obstacles, and how much leeway do they deserve, and how much can we really blame them for not having the tools to go after success in ordinary ways?” - Alexandra Andrews “I'd been writing for so long and without any success, and even when I just finished the first draft, I was so happy I finished the first draft. And then when I got an agent, I was just thrilled I had an agent. And then when it sold, every step has felt like icing on the cake.” - Alexandra Andrews   Alexandra’s Links Alexandra’s website Alexandra’s Instagram Books & Resources Mentioned in This EpisodeJoan Didon The Talented Mr. Ripley Elena Ferrante Patricia Highsmith To learn more about listener data and our privacy practices visit: https://www.audacyinc.com/privacy-policy Learn more about your ad choices. Visit https://podcastchoices.com/adchoices

It’s another episode of our cozy fall series; For the Love of Feeding These People. How could we talk about food without talking about one of the things that pairs with it best. Yes, we’re talking wine on this week’s show, and we’ve got a knowledgeable, smart and decidedly different wine expert joining Jen to talk through food’s most delightful partner. Noel Burgess is a wine writer and influencer who lives in wine country in Northern California. For those of you that love wine, and even better, for those of you who have been looking to add wine to your table, Noel’s approach to wine is refreshing to us all. What’s great about Noel is that he’s on a journey of wine discovery himself—having only started drinking wine less than 5 years ago. He makes wine approachable to all of us and wants us to learn along with him. As Noel likes to say “wines are as diverse as people, spectacular in their perfect imperfections, shaped by their distinct environments, and always evolving.” Sounds like our kind of wine guy. Stick around to the end, where we’ve picked a dish from Jen’s cookbook, Feeding These People, and Noel tells us exactly the right wine to pair with it—just in time for fall entertaining.  * * * Thank you to our sponsors! Rothy’s | $20 off your first purchase by visiting Rothys.com/forthelove BetterHelp | Visit BetterHelp.com/forthelove and get 10% off your first month All the Dish Tour | Jen is going on tour! Find your city and get your tickets at jenhatmaker.com.    Thought-Provoking Quotes “Everyone's palate is different. So to me, the overall thing of it is, it's good to you, then it's a quality wine, whether it costs fifty bucks or five bucks.” - Noel Burgess “The wine got my attention, no doubt, but the diversity piece is what really fuels my passion and sustains me in this industry.” - Noel Burgess “What are they doing when it comes to sustainability? What are they doing when it comes to giving back to the earth or to individuals, charities? Those are things I care about because there's so many different wine brands out there. If you're not exercising these things, why am I drinking your wine?” - Noel Burgess “I do enjoy working in the industry, but it's really about the people. And that's why I focus on those things in my story, versus talking about the technicality of wine. That's important.” - Noel Burgess “Even though your palate might expand, this is the best way to put it, it might expand, I don't leave behind the brands that I tried in the beginning that I actually do enjoy the taste.” - Noel Burgess “That outlet to do the things that I love, which is interacting with people and telling real stories, and helping highlight and give a voice to those that don't have as big a voice, is why I'm in HR, is why I'm in the wine, food, travel, hospitality, influencing, print media game, whatever you want to call it. That is the thing, that is the mechanism that I have used to improve the quality of my life.” - Noel Burgess   Guest’s LinksNoel’s Instagram Noel on Muckrack.com  Noel’s website (coming soon)   Mentioned in This EpisodeTheopholis Vineyards   Connect with Jen!Jen’s website Jen’s Instagram Jen’s Twitter Jen’s Facebook Jen’s YouTube   To learn more about listener data and our privacy practices visit: https://www.audacyinc.com/privacy-policy Learn more about your ad choices. Visit https://podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Things are getting even more delicious as we continue with the “Feeding These People” series here on the For The Love Podcast, as we celebrate the launch of Jen’s dream project - her very first cookbook! And like we need an excuse to talk about food (we don’t) so pardon us as we revel in all the foodie-loving goodness our guest this week brings us through her oh-so-delectable, highly followed Instagram channel. We’ve got Half Baked Harvest’s Tieghan Gerard with us this week and we couldn’t be more excited (and a little hungry). Tieghan, much like Jen, got her start in the world of blogging way back in 2012 and was just a natural to move her food thoughts and creations over to Instagram (to the tune of 4.7M followers), and subsequently began appearing on outlets like the Cooking Channel, Food Network, HGTV and more. Tieghan confesses to us, as much as she loves cooking (which came from experimentation as a kid, and watching a lot of Rachael Ray) she loves styling the things she cooks even more. And if you get a look at Half Baked Harvest on the socials, you’ll understand why. From her point of view on food, to her flavor profiles, to how she showcases her beautiful creations, you’ll see her talent–but rejoice in the fact that even though her recipes *look* elevated, they are made for people who might not have a chef’s touch in the kitchen. We were stunned to find out that she wrote AND styled her last three cookbooks (after last week’s episode, where we had Jen’s entire cookbook team describing their work, we marvel at how she does it all). We also love the moments when Tieghan discovers Jen is southern and their hand-clapping delight that they both adore spicy foods (more jalapenos, please) and their aside about how wonderful it is to get to do what you love for a living. Stick around for the end as Tieghan shares her favorite (and easy) go-to recipe that everyone needs for their fall menus.  * * * Thank you to our sponsors! Storyworth | Save $10.00 on your first purchase at Storyworth.com/ForTheLove  Feed These People | Pre-order Jen’s new cookbook and get free extra recipes, cooking videos, and more at jenhatmaker.com/feedthesepeople. Book is on shelves Oct 18, 2022.  All the Dish Tour | Jen is going on tour! Find your city and get your tickets at jenhatmaker.com.    Thought-Provoking Quotes “I love to make things look pretty. In my eye, in my head when something clicks, I'm so excited. It clicks, I'm like, "Yeah, this is it. I love it." So that's how I build recipes is I really build them in my head first and I build them based off color, and textures.” - Tieghan Gerard “I'm so grateful for the gradual growth I've had. I didn't have that one thing that put me on the map. I didn't go on the Today show, there wasn't some giant celebrity shout-out, it was just gradual, steady, consistent growth.” - Tieghan Gerard “Creating content and interacting with my community, and all of those things are the things that really build my business at the end of the day.” - Tieghan Gerard   Tieghan’s Links Tiehgan’s website Tieghan’s Instagram  Tieghan’s Facebook Tieghan’s Twitter Tieghan’s TikTok   Resources Mentioned in This Episode Book: Essentialism: The Disciplined Pursuit of Less Connect with Jen!Jen’s website Jen’s Instagram Jen’s Twitter Jen’s Facebook Jen’s YouTube   To learn more about listener data and our privacy practices visit: https://www.audacyinc.com/privacy-policy Learn more about your ad choices. Visit https://podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Coming in hot with a sneak peek of the premium podcast content! We’re tackling some tough social issues with these exclusive bonus episodes in the hope of having conversations that will be enlightening and sobering, but also encouraging. Our mission in these conversations is to advance respectful dialogue around hard issues, while looking toward how we can all build a world that we want to hand down to the next generations. And so continuing in this vein, we wanted to get a politicians' 1000 foot view of these issues, how to sort them out, what feels hopeful and what is our role to play. Former US Representative Beto O'Rourke is here with us to talk about all of these things, but in particular, voter’s rights. Whether you’re affiliated with a party at all, I think we can all agree that voting is the right of the American citizen. He walks us through a history of voting, what some of the hurdles have been for all to be able to vote in the past and the present, and how we can better this situation with our voices and our votes.  * * * Thank you to our sponsors! Feed These People | Pre-order Jen’s new cookbook and get free extra recipes, cooking videos, and more at jenhatmaker.com/feedthesepeople. Book is on shelves Oct 18, 2022.  All the Dish Tour | Jen is going on tour! Find your city and get your tickets at jenhatmaker.com.    Thought-Provoking Quotes “It's just so important [to acknowledge] just how extraordinarily exceptional our form of government is. In the whole of human history, very, very few people on the planet have ever pulled off anything close to a democracy. And even today, though there are more democratic countries than have ever existed before in the history of the world, it's not easy. And most of the planet does not live under free and fair elections.” Beto O’ Rourke “In 1965, the first Texas president, Lyndon Baines Johnson, signed into law the Voting Rights Act, which really for the first time since Reconstruction, allows everyone to participate in the franchise, regardless of race or ethnicity or country of national origin. It's really a beautiful moment. It was an important achievement and milestone, but none of these victories are final. You’ve always got to keep fighting because the forces that are fighting against democracy, they never rest. “ - Beto O’ Rourke “The more power you get, the more power hungry you are. And I don't think any human or any party is immune to that. The beauty of our country is you have all these checks and balances and these laws that are supposed to protect democracy. And we really have an opportunity that few generations get to fight for and restore this democracy. So voting is super important, of course.” - Beto O’ Rourke “We all need to know that we have a role to play. There's something that we can do. We're not merely witnesses or bystanders or on the sidelines. We're in this. And getting registered to vote, that puts you in this.” - Beto O’ Rourke   Guest’s LinksBeto’s website Beto’s Instagram Beto’s Facebook Beto’s Twitter   Resources Mentioned in This EpisodeBeto’s book   Connect with Jen!Jen’s website Jen’s Instagram Jen’s Twitter Jen’s Facebook Jen’s YouTube To learn more about listener data and our privacy practices visit: https://www.audacyinc.com/privacy-policy Learn more about your ad choices. Visit https://podcastchoices.com/adchoices

It’s time to get into a topic for a brand new series that is near and dear to our hearts—food. We love to eat it, we love to take pictures of it, we love to cook it (well, some of us do). This brand new series, For the Love of Feeding These People, coincides with the release of Jen’s brand new cookbook; “Feed These People,” but lest you think this is one long discussion about Jen’s book, think again. We’re bringing in other food creators whose Instagrams we follow religiously for their culinary creations, we’re bringing in a wine guy (not a snooty one, but one that gives us affordable options and doesn’t shame us if we wonder out loud what wine pairs with corn dogs), and Jen’s own family (sisters, brother and mom) to talk about their family food moments and give up the secrets of their most loved and hated family meals. But for this episode, we’re going deep behind the scenes and uncovering the mystery of how the pictures of food we see in advertisements, websites, instagram feeds, books and more look so darn good. There are people who specialize in photographing food to make it look as sumptuous as possible, and other folks who “style” the food so it appears in the most beautiful atmospheres, and the chefs who cook up every recipe to its ultimate best so the photog and stylist can enhance the magic around it. If you’ve ever been curious as to how that all happens, we have the actual team who put together Jen’s cookbook, and they’re here to dish about all the hours, details, and antics that go into this kind of work, and how they got to the mouth-watering final results. Mackenzie, Maite and Taylor are the dream team behind so many beautiful food shoots and you’ll love the triumphs and the fails they share (including a story about Jen’s Satay with Peanut Dipping Sauce recipe that somehow resembled something REALLY unappetizing) and other hilarious challenges and triumphs that happened while creating Jen’s beautiful new cookbook.  * * * Thank you to our sponsors! Better Help | Visit Betterhelp.com/ForTheLove to get 10% off your first month of therapy.  Chime | Sign up for your Chime Credit Builder Visa Credit Card today Chime.com/ForTheLove Feed These People | Pre-order Jen’s new cookbook and get free extra recipes, cooking videos, and more at jenhatmaker.com/feedthesepeople. Book is on shelves Oct 18, 2022.    Thought-Provoking Quotes “I think my goal with photography, food or not, but especially with food, is to connect, is to make people feel connected. And I love doing that by making things relatable instead of aspirational.” - Mackenzie, food photographer “Food styling is such a different task because you have to think of all the potential issues that could happen, not only with the actual making of the food, but when you're actually putting it in front of the camera, and the transition that just naturally happens in food.” - Maite, chef and food designer “I was in Fiesta, if you're not in Texas, that's like this amazing Mexican grocery store, in the canned aisle, and called Mackenzie. And I was like, ‘This might sound crazy, but what if we built a wall of canned food?’ And to her credit, she was like, ‘If you have a vision, let's give it a shot.’ And I think that's a really fun shot. And it was exciting.” - Taylor, food stylist and designer   Guests’ LinksMaite’s Website Maite’s Instagram Taylor’s Website Taylor’s Instagram Mackenzie’s Website  Makenzie’s Instagram   Books & Resources Mentioned in This Episode Feed These People: Slam Dunk Recipes for Your Crew by Jen Hatmaker   Connect with Jen! Jen’s website Jen’s Instagram Jen’s Twitter Jen’s Facebook Jen’s YouTube   To learn more about listener data and our privacy practices visit: https://www.audacyinc.com/privacy-policy Learn more about your ad choices. Visit https://podcastchoices.com/adchoices

It’s time to bring a close to our Dating, Sex, & Relationships series. And what better way to wrap it all than hearing a candid conversation from Jen and her person–Tyler Merritt. If you’ve listened to this series, you might have noticed that Jen has mentioned Tyler–a long time activist and author—a time or two, and that part of the reason for this series was to explore some new territory that Jen has only been exposed to over the last year or so as she tentatively put her toe in the dating waters after the end of her 26 year marriage in 2020. As we’ve stepped through all the new ways we can meet people, or explored the choice to be single, or looked at how to start over after divorce or loss, we’ve heard the threads of Jen and Tyler’s story in all of this mix. And now, they’re here to give us some insight as to “how it’s going,” with all the joys and challenges every new relationship faces, plus some never before heard conversations about how they came together from completely different places in life including; long time married with kids vs. long time single with no kids, navigating the nuances of being a bi-racial couple and coming from completely different cultural circumstances, balancing their careers while nurturing a budding relationship and the bittersweet reality of dating long-distance. This episode is packed with some “in the moment” musings from both Jen and Tyler and also includes some hilarious takes on how a relationship that started as a new friendship turned into long daily text sessions moving to hours long phone conversations, their “define the relationship” talk, and culminating with a fun bonus segment–the For the Love team’s version of “The Newlywed Game,”--where we see how well Jen and Tyler really know each other (you’ll want to see this on video as well over on Jen’s YouTube).  * * * Thought-Provoking Quotes: “I just remember thinking, ‘This is weird. This is special. There's something special happening here.’ [Maybe] I just met a lifelong friend and we're going to have to meet up in New York and go see shows–I don't know what's happening.’” - Jen Hatmaker “I remember telling you I have to have conversations with the people that are close to me in my life because I'm just known as being single, and me not being single affects my single people and it's a lot.” - Tyler Merritt “What's been great about being in a relationship with somebody who has such a different set of circumstances from me; and it's not just single and married, it's black and it's white and it's only child, it's oldest of four, it is vegetarian, it is hamburgers, and it's no kids, it's five kids. We've got a lot, we have a lot of really interesting differences. And I think I can say honestly that most of them have been really good for me to navigate and to learn.” - Jen Hatmaker “[I want] to kind of encourage anybody that's in a racial relationship that it doesn't matter how progressive you are, it doesn't matter how far you are into the movement, you're going to run into things that are just different and you've just got to make your way through it.” - Tyler Merritt Guest’s Links: Tyler’s website: https://thetylermerrittproject.com/  Tyler’s Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/thetylermerrittproject Tyler’s Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/thetylermerrittproject/  Tyler’s Twitter: https://twitter.com/ttmproject  Tyler’s YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCPB48_JfK-VMnYQPTYyMX5Q  Connect with Jen! Jen’s website: http://jenhatmaker.com/  Jen’s Instagram: https://instagram.com/jenhatmaker Jen’s Twitter: https://twitter.com/jenHatmaker/  Jen’s Facebook: https://facebook.com/jenhatmaker Jen’s YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/user/JenHatmaker?sub_confirmation=1   To learn more about listener data and our privacy practices visit: https://www.audacyinc.com/privacy-policy Learn more about your ad choices. Visit https://podcastchoices.com/adchoices

As we’ve been learning in our Dating, Sex and Relationship series, there is no one right way to go about finding satisfaction in these areas of life. And the same is true for sex. You deserve to find joy and pleasure in your body and your sexuality just as you are, no matter what. There are so many things that culture has told us about our bodies and our sexuality that aren’t true. We’re going to walk through some of those misnomers and some healthy ways to approach sex with our very wise guest, sex educator and return visitor to our show, Emily Nagoski. Emily describes her mission as helping women live with joy and confidence inside their bodies. She wants us to know that our bodies have wisdom to share, and that our bodies can be trusted–their intuition is actually good for us and our protection. She explains what a sex drive is (actually, what it isn’t, because it’s not actually a thing–surprise!). Emily also shares key findings from couples who sustain strong sexual connection over the long term (and those two things aren’t what people most generally think they are). In this frank conversation about sex, Emily encourages us to lean into our sexual pleasure and shake off any hesitations that are usually due to cultural shame or baggage. And if you think that exploring your sexuality isn’t possible with a busy career, kids, and other responsibilities, Emily removes the myth that scheduling sex makes it less hot. When we normalize all sorts of sexual responses, we remove barriers that keep us from making space for all this pleasure that has always been ours to claim.  * * * Thought-Provoking Quotes: “I think having curiosity about our own bodies and continually learning in a non-judgmental way is really important. Trusting the message your body is sending you more than anyone else's expressed opinion about what should be happening with your body. We can believe our bodies over and above anybody else's opinion about bodies.” - Emily Nagoski “We actually heal ourselves when we allow uncomfortable feelings to melt through our bodies. On the other side of it, that process has healed our bodies and freed us from the lies that we were told when we were small.” - Emily Nagoski “The person you are is a person worth being. This is the whole you're enough, but the thing is–you are enough. It is only in this like culturally constructed comparison against a fictional and often deliberately unachievable ideal that we torture ourselves about the way our sexuality works.” - Emily Nagoski “There is no quota of pleasure. There's no such thing as too little pleasure. And there's no such thing as too much pleasure. Nobody gets to judge or decide about your experience of pleasure.” - Emily Nagoski “Let's make a world with less body shame. Let's make a world where girls are raised to believe that they have a basic right to bodily autonomy and that pleasure is their birthright. They have the right to all the pleasure that their body is capable of experiencing without being afraid of it or ashamed of it or needing to prioritize somebody else's pleasure over theirs.” - Emily Nagoski “Neurologically, pleasure is a practice. The more we practice paying attention to pleasure, the easier it is for our brains to notice pleasure.” - Emily Nagoski “Have pleasure. Desire will follow.” - Emily Nagoski Emily Nagoski’s Links: Emily’s website: https://www.emilynagoski.com/ Emily’s Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/enagoski/  Connect with Jen! Jen’s website - http://jenhatmaker.com/  Jen’s Instagram - https://instagram.com/jenhatmaker Jen’s Twitter - https://twitter.com/jenHatmaker/  Jen’s Facebook - https://facebook.com/jenhatmaker Jen’s YouTube - https://www.youtube.com/user/JenHatmaker?sub_confirmation=1 To learn more about listener data and our privacy practices visit: https://www.audacyinc.com/privacy-policy Learn more about your ad choices. Visit https://podcastchoices.com/adchoices

When we were putting this series together about love and sex and relationships, we knew we had to have a guest that was well-versed in the ways of dating through online apps and digital services. For those of us who may be seeking a partner for the first time, or maybe we’re back in the dating pool after leaving a relationship–we can all benefit from practical tips on how to navigate it all. All the questions you could possibly think of related to online dating–we’ve got you covered, like: what do you look for when you’re looking at someone’s online profile? What are the red flags? How do I make my own profile reflect who I am and what I want? And is having a meal on a first date really a good idea? [Spoiler Alert: No.] We’ve got just the person to hold our hand through what can be an overwhelming process—we’re happy to introduce online dating coach, Perri Schneider to the For the Love community. She's going to answer all these questions for us and then some, and you’re going to want to take note of what she has to say. Perri's story is one many of us can relate to. After getting fed up with less than stellar experiences in her attempts at modern dating, she decided to help others navigate this online space. She learned through trial and error, and she’s got the 411 on how to master the process. She helps her clients shift their approach and their intentions with dating apps in the hopes that her clients find precisely what they are looking for–whether it is new experiences, casual fun, relationships, or even their dream partner. Consider this your field guide on which apps to use, how to approach a first date, what to do if you’re ghosted, and so much more–and maybe you’ll even find love along the way.  * * * Thank you to our sponsors! Liquid IV | Get 25% off at liquid-iv.com using promo code For The Love Feed These People | Pre-order Jen’s new cookbook and get free extra recipes, cooking videos, and more at jenhatmaker.com/feedthesepeople. Book is on shelves Oct 18, 2022.  All the Dish Tour | Jen is going on tour and will have special guests at each stop! Find your city and get your tickets at jenhatmaker.com.    Thought-Provoking Quotes “Find one or two apps that you've kind of heard of or that have a good reputation, and just get your toe into the water. Just go for it. And remember, you are in the driver's seat. It's great. If someone's giving you the heebie-jeebies, you can unmatch someone.” - Perri Schneider “When you're actively looking at profiles, make it your one active task. That way, you're limiting your time spent and you're kind of pushing away the ability for you to fall into that garbage-y feeling.” - Perri Schneider “There's no rush to meet seven people at once. Enjoy it. Revel in it. Dating should be fun and enjoyable, first and foremost.” - Perri Schneider “The best way to kind of break into the dating world and really brace yourself for potential rejection is get on the dang phone with them.” - Perri Schneider “You're never going to find success when you're not in a space where you can ease-in and really present yourself authentically.” - Perri Schneider   Perri Schneider’s LinksPerri’s website Perri’s Instagram Perri’s Twitter   Connect with Jen!Jen’s website Jen’s Instagram Jen’s Twitter Jen’s Facebook Jen’s YouTube To learn more about listener data and our privacy practices visit: https://www.audacyinc.com/privacy-policy Learn more about your ad choices. Visit https://podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Producer's Note: Mature subject matter around sex is discussed in this episode.  We’re covering it all in our Relationships, Sex and Dating series, and this week’s episode has a twist. It’s not all flowers, heart emojis, and adrenaline when it comes to love and relationships–finding them, keeping them, growing them. Some of us have done all those things–possibly for many years–and yet for many reasons, find ourselves thrust back into the dating pool after divorce, or death, or when a long term relationship ends. And maybe we never thought we’d have to look to find love again after so many years of being in a relationship. It’s unexpected, it’s disappointing and disorienting. We’ve become strangers in a strange land. Fortunately, we have a guest this week who is going to help map us through that strange land and her name is Laura Stassi. Laura was married for 30 years and went through what researchers have labeled “gray divorce.” As she started to come out of the daze that can set in when your life is completely uprooted in this way–she began to realize that there were a lot more people that had been through the same thing than she had ever imagined. In fact, it’s a worldwide trend. As she noticed that she was in plentiful company with others who were coming out of long term partnerships and trying to figure out what was next, she set her mind to research and that research eventually turned into a popular public radio backed podcast called “Dating While Gray.” Laura and Jen get into it all; How do you navigate today’s world of dating when men and women have thousands of options to choose from via dating apps? What’s it like to have sex with someone new after having sex with the same person for many years? How do you handle finances when you’re both grown ups with assets and income? Find these answers and more from both Laura’s and Jen’s experience, plus a little encouragement that when you’re truly open to new possibilities, the world can open up for you in amazing ways.  * * * Thank you to our sponsors! Betterhelp | Get 10% off your first month at betterhelp.com/forthelove.  All the Dish Tour| Jen is going on tour! Find your city and get your tickets at jenhatmaker.com.  Feed These People| Pre-order Jen’s new cookbook and get free extra recipes, cooking videos, and more at jenhatmaker.com/feedthesepeople. Book is on shelves Oct 18, 2022.    Thought-Provoking Quotes “I look back now and people were like, ‘Why were you fighting the end of your marriage so much?’ I was like, ‘You know what? I was scared. I was scared out of my mind.’ Not that I didn't have the strength to be on my own, but I didn't know anybody else who was single.” - Laura Stassi “Everybody needs to learn how to be on their own happily, financially, emotionally, physiologically. You just need to be comfortable in your own skin, in your own space, in your own skin, however that may look.” - Laura Stassi “One thing that would behoove all of us is to learn how to be more open with everything. For some of us, I feel like I'm more open mainly because I was forced into it. When you're forced into single's world after being in married land, if you stay close minded about anything, I don't think you're going to have a happy life.” - Laura Stassi “Money is one of those things that if you're going to become involved with somebody, you need to talk about it. Maybe that means you don't commingle. Maybe that means you don't live together without a cohabitation agreement. The minute you start joining lives officially or unofficially, you want to be very clear about finances.” - Laura Stassi    Laura’s Links Laura Stassi’s Instagram Laura Stassi’s Twitter Laura Stassi’s Facebook Dating While Gray Podcast   Connect with Jen!Jen’s website Jen’s Instagram Jen’s Twitter Jen’s Facebook Jen’s YouTube   To learn more about listener data and our privacy practices visit: https://www.audacyinc.com/privacy-policy Learn more about your ad choices. Visit https://podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Calling all book nerds! Are you looking for a place where your book-loving heart can flourish? Join us at jenhatmakerbookclub.com, and become one of our sisters in nerdiness. For August 2022, Jen and the club read Shauna Niequist’s I Guess I Haven’t Learned That Yet. Now, no one in this community is new to Shauna, she has appeared on the show before and is Jen’s dear friend and tour mate.. But in case you are new to this community, Shauna is an author and speaker who authentically shares the hardships she faces and how she works through them. Her newest book, I Guess I Haven’t Learned That Yet is a poignant and humbling look at her faith, health struggles, and feelings of loneliness as she entered a new phase of life. Every reader can find themselves in the pages, as Shauna is so adept in bringing her story to life in ways we can all relate to. So join us as Jen and Shauna talk about reinventing faith, working towards better health, and healing as a community.  * * * Thank you to our sponsors! Jen Hatmaker Book Club | Join the sisterhood in nerdiness today at jenhatmakerbookclub.com.  Feed These People| Pre-order Jen’s new cookbook and get free extra recipes, cooking videos, and more at jenhatmaker.com/feedthesepeople. Book is on shelves Oct 18, 2022.  Fall Tour | Get your tickets for Jen’s All The Dish tour at www.jenhatmaker.com  Thought-Provoking Quotes “The point of storytelling, the point of being a writer is not reporting on your own life. It's holding out these little edges of your own experience and offering them to someone else as an active service saying, ‘Does this help? Does this make you feel a little less alone in the world? Could this keep you company along the rougher parts of your journey?’" – Shauna Niequist  “You can live in the most beautiful house in the world or you can have the coolest friends in the world or the coolest experiences, if your mind and body are not working, none of that matters. None of it.” – Shauna Niequist  “There are seasons where we can't always find a church home and that's okay. And then you practice your faith in a field or watching the water or with your journal, or as you walk the city streets and you pray that maybe there will be a time when you can sit at the back of a church, but your faith doesn't have to look the same way forever.” – Shauna Niequist    Shauna’s LinksWebsite  Instagram  I Guess I Haven’t Learned That Yet - Shauna Niequist    Connect with Jen!Jen’s website Jen’s Instagram Jen’s Twitter Jen’s Facebook Jen’s YouTube To learn more about listener data and our privacy practices visit: https://www.audacyinc.com/privacy-policy Learn more about your ad choices. Visit https://podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Our For the Love of Dating, Sex and Relationships series continues, and lest you think we’re solidly in the camp of “all people must be paired up,” let us assure you we’re firmly on the side of choosing whatever state of being (attached or not) best fits your life. We’re here, in this episode, to talk about the state and the choice of singleness. So maybe you’re unattached and you want to find the love of your life. Perhaps you’re getting pressure from friends and family as to why you remain available. (we can all hear that well-meaning person’s voice in our ear–”but you’re such a catch! Why are you still single??). Maybe you’ve gone on a LOT of dates (bad and good) and you’re ready to get off that train, but don’t want to give up the notion of potentially finding someone one day. We have good news. You get to choose to be happily single. And that does not preclude you from future partnership. So maybe the happily single part is what you’re struggling with (and that others in your life who want to see you partnered up aren’t helping) but our guest today knows what you’re going through and wants you to know you’re not alone. After years of actively dating and pursuing dates through a variety of digital means, writer Shani Silver decided she didn’t want to spend the rest of her 30’s swiping through face after face to see if maybe love would find her. She decided to go a different route and is here to share where it's led her on her quest to be happy with who and where she is right now. Shani likes to say that she is not an advocate for singlehood necessarily, but an advocate for women feeling good while single. She wrote a book called A Single Revolution: Don’t Look for a Match, Light One which she hopes is helping women feel better about this incredibly valuable time in their lives. She gives us pointers on how to make ourselves available for all kinds of experiences and people–whether we’re looking for love or not—and surprise, it doesn’t necessarily have to involve dating apps or even dating itself! During their conversation, Jen also discusses her tentative steps into singlehood after 26 years of marriage and her brief experience on dating apps, and how love organically found her. Single, married, divorced or looking for love, we can all look at this time in our lives (and in the lives of our friends) as one to be embraced, not scorned, and why, more than ever, it can be a positive, endlessly full-of-possibility way of living. * * * Thank you to our sponsors! Thought-Provoking Quotes: “What if being single wasn't bad? What if being single was good and valuable and a really cool, positive endlessly possible season of your life? What if it was good? It's challenging just the fabric of our brains in terms of what singlehood means. But that's where it has to start.” - Shani Silver “You can look forward to your future relationships. You can even pursue them to the extent that you're comfortable doing so. Dating is not a prerequisite for partnership. You can also value and cherish all of the opportunity that you have now to live happily.” - Shani Silver “I would suggest to people and couples is whatever effort a single [person] is making to be a part of your life, if you can, try to reciprocate that effort. And if you can't, let them know why.” - Shani Silver “We've got to learn to be happy for people. You don't want to live your life as a jealous person. Be happy for people. Be happy.” - Shani Silver “We deserve more ways out of singlehood misery than just “find someone” and [those ways] are abundant. They do exist. That's why I talk as ferociously as I do because I found them and I love them. If I can pull myself out of the darkest pit of singlehood despair that exists, anyone can.”- Shani Silver Shani Silver’s Links Shani Silver Website Shani Silver Instagram Shani Silver Twitter   Connect with Jen! Jen’s website Jen’s Instagram Jen’s Twitter Jen’s Facebook Jen’s YouTube To learn more about listener data and our privacy practices visit: https://www.audacyinc.com/privacy-policy Learn more about your ad choices. Visit https://podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Description We’re bringing you all the goods with our For the Love of Dating, Sex and Relationships series. So if you’ve ever tried dating as a fully grown adult, you might have a few feelings about it. Maybe you’ve been swiping and swiping and swiping (and if this makes no sense to you, it’s okay–you’ll know what it means by the end of this series) and you’re just not connecting with anyone who sets your world on fire. It can really be the wild west out there in the digital dating world, but we’re here to help. Perhaps you’ve perused the dating sites and maybe you’ve even joined a site, created a profile, or taken the leap to go on a date. Dating sites have successfully brought millions of people together, but as they say, you might have to kiss a lot of frogs before you meet your prince or princess (no offense to frogs). But there are more than a few ways to find love if you’re looking for it. And this week we are excited to talk about the world of matchmaking–a way of bringing people together that has a long and storied history–and is still alive and well in our digital age. Founder of RBL (Real Black Love) Matchmaking service Joseph Dixon is on the show with his colleague Paris Denise to give us the finer points of finding love through a matchmaker. . Joseph and Paris entered the world of matchmaking after seeing negative experiences that were affecting long and lasting relationships in their community. Since then, they have been focused and dedicated to connecting people for committed relationships in and for the black community. Matchmaking has come a long way since the Victorian era (and even since our 70’s favorite, The Dating Game) and now with experts like Paris and Joseph at the ready, you can take advantage of a deeper way to find someone to share your life–the art of matchmaking has led to thousands of successful relationships!   * * * Thank you to our sponsors! Betterhelp | Get 10% off your first month at betterhelp.com/forthelove.  Rothy’s | Get $20 off your first purchase at rothys.com/forthelove.  All The Dish Tour | Find your city and get your tickets at jenhatmaker.com.    Thought-Provoking Quotes “I got divorced. I was in my early 30s. There was nothing out there for African American singles looking for substantial connections, and me being a web developer, I decided to go ahead and take the onus on myself to actually build something out to help people like myself find substantial relationships.”  – Joseph Dixon  “We're taking the time to teach people that you need to holistically look at people. And of course income is important, of course assets are important, but also a person's character, their conflict resolution skills, their emotional intelligence and their support, and their general personality and how they receive love and how they give love is important as well.” – Paris Denise   “Change up your dating cycle, change up your dating pattern because you don't know what you don't like until you actually don't like it.” – Joseph Dixon  “When it came to dating apps, when it comes to Black people, it was a taboo in our community. And if you were on a dating app, you didn't talk about it at all, right? This is literally less than 10 years ago.” – Joseph Dixon  “Don't tell me what you want. I need to find out what you need, because if we can establish that first, then you may find out the person that you've been looking for is not actually the person that you really need." – Joseph Dixon  “People are dealing with a lot of relationship anxiety. They're dealing with a lot of doubt, a lot of trauma. I'm not a genie and I'm not a wizard, but I can definitely get in the trenches with you and help you fight this battle, because it's challenging being single and finding the person that you want.” – Paris Denise  Joseph & Paris’ LinksReal Black Love Website Real Black Love Instagram    Connect with Jen!Jen’s website Jen’s InstagramJen’s Twitter Jen’s FacebookJen’s YouTube To learn more about listener data and our privacy practices visit: https://www.audacyinc.com/privacy-policy Learn more about your ad choices. Visit https://podcastchoices.com/adchoices